Willie Collum threatened by Celtc fans

[Jim44]

[QUOTE=HibeePaj;2618672]Willie Collum had a GOOD game on sunday and made one mistake (albeit a penalty decision). QUOTE]

I disagree strongly. Stokes should have been sent off for that shocking ankle breaking tackle. Lennon's 'warning/persuasion' must have been ringing in his ears at such an early stage in the game and the referee's 'chickening out' was clear to see. And he's supposed to be our best referee.

[matty_f]

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I have not. My only mention of this was to point out that an irresponsible journalist printed Collum's faith

but to suggest that Celtic (fans, clubs, management etc) are not disliked by some because of this is simply untrue.

Did I just imagine all the guff about lennon's attack and real radio then?

W youere not spouting pish about people being glad because he was a tim?

[SidBurns]

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Jack, I think Celtic FC would get some credit here if they condemned the morons who have issued threats. I also agree with other posters who have claimed that Celtic have been very poor winners and losers over the years - that has certainly been my experience following Hibs since 1973.

Having said that, I do agree with your point about Rangers being the main benefactors of refereeing decisions. This has gone on for decades and I reckon the only reason they get away with it is due to the predominantly Rangers minded media who turn a blind eye to it.

I also think your idea of foreign referees is a good one but I wouldn't restrict this to OF games. I think the standard of Scottish refereeing is shocking and our game would only improve by using foreign refs IMO.

Oh that'll be those foreign refs that study the EXACT same Laws of The Game as us Scottish refs! Why are they going to be any different!?!

[marinello59]

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He never. He was asked a question about the referee which he answered and, given the contentious nature of the refereeing Celtic witnessed in this fixture last season, he was perfectly entitled to take the line he did.

He said what any other manager would have said and have said, frequently, under those circumstances.

Under no circumstances can Lennon be blamed for the alleged death threats on Collum.

I'll ask again, who put him under more pressure, Lennon or Hugh Keevins who made a point of referring to Collum as "Scotland's most high Profile Roman Catholic referee" or when the Sun mention what school he worked at in 2008?

So you saying Lennon is free of all blame here Why didn't he just say nothing pre-match? We are frequently told that he is one of the more intelligent managers about yet you are suggesting he was led astray by those nasty journalists. Maybe he is just a thick tosser then.
And what about his instructions pre season to his players to hound the referee, is that not all part of the same game?

[cabbageandribs1875]

and to balance up the vileness of the other half of scotlands shame http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-22661385/

A GANG of thugs laid siege to Celtic star Anthony Stokes's home as his parents cowered inside after Sunday's Old Firm clash.

Police were called after 15 thugs gathered outside his home.

A witness told the Record: "There was a mob of about 15 outside Anthony's house.

"The were singing anti-Catholic songs and saying they were going to 'kill the Fenian b*****d'.

two sides of a horrible vile bigoted sectarian scottish public.

[JackRegan]

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Did I just imagine all the guff about lennon's attack and real radio then?

W youere not spouting pish about people being glad because he was a tim?

Read my posts again Matty. I said for some, yes it was an issue, for some it was not.

its really quite simple.

[Jim44]

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and to balance up the vileness of the other half of scotlands shame http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-22661385/

A GANG of thugs laid siege to Celtic star Anthony Stokes's home as his parents cowered inside after Sunday's Old Firm clash.

Police were called after 15 thugs gathered outside his home.

A witness told the Record: "There was a mob of about 15 outside Anthony's house.

"The were singing anti-Catholic songs and saying they were going to 'kill the Fenian b*****d'.

two sides of a horrible vile bigoted sectarian scottish public.

Welcome to the 'wild west' Anthony. You didn't help matters with your shocking tackle but nobody deserves an attack from vigilantes.

[matty_f]

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and to balance up the vileness of the other half of scotlands shame http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-22661385/

A GANG of thugs laid siege to Celtic star Anthony Stokes's home as his parents cowered inside after Sunday's Old Firm clash.

Police were called after 15 thugs gathered outside his home.

A witness told the Record: "There was a mob of about 15 outside Anthony's house.

"The were singing anti-Catholic songs and saying they were going to 'kill the Fenian b*****d'.

two sides of a horrible vile bigoted sectarian scottish public.

Probably just a sort to distract criticism away from the celtc fans...

[matty_f]

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Read my posts again Matty. I said for some, yes it was an issue, for some it was not.

its really quite simple.

Then surely not that difficult to see why I mentioned catholics then, unless you, too, are quite simple.

[JackRegan]

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So you saying Lennon is free of all blame here Why didn't he just say nothing pre-match? We are frequently told that he is one of the more intelligent managers about yet you are suggesting he was led astray by those nasty journalists. Maybe he is just a thick tosser then.
And what about his instructions pre season to his players to hound the referee, is that not all part of the same game?

I'll say again - read Lennon's actual quotes. Watch his press conferences and don't be de led by the journalists interpretation of what Lennon said.

As for his pre seaosn instruction about pressing the referee..

Okay did you see what the Dundee united players did last weekend then? there was 6 of them at mcDonald and HE changed his mind - Not the linesman, so it would appear that pressure does work.

Now fast forward to Sunday - How many Celtic players were in Collums face when he gave teh penalty? One. Majstorovic who was involved in the incident.

also - ask yourself this - who's players hound the referee more: Celtic or Rangers?

do you think Nosurname says "look guys - gie the ref a break"

Yet Nosurname was the press TERRIFIED from him and its' "Wily old walter" Yet, Neil Lennon, who said less about refs than Jeffires or even Peter Houston last weekend, is irresponsible and being blamed for a ref getting a nasty phone call.

BTw Where do they get their numbers from? Is their a "Grade One Referees" section in Yellow Pages?

Or was it the fact that the papers printed his workplace, what his faith was and even what town he lived in?

[JackRegan]

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Then surely not that difficult to see why I mentioned catholics then, unless you, too, are quite simple.

matty, discussion with you on here always take a familiar turn.

you twist and shift the agenda when your original point has been lost.

this is no different.

But for your peace of mind Why would it be done to quote "to show up the nasty catholics?"

Why bring a religion of what 1 billion people into it? Hwo do we knw they were Catholcis? Surely the term Celtic fan would have been more apt?

[matty_f]

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matty, discussion with you on here always take a familiar turn.

you twist and shift the agenda when your original point has been lost.

this is no different.

But for your peace of mind Why would it be done to quote "to show up the nasty catholics?"

Why bring a religion of what 1 billion people into it? Hwo do we knw they were Catholcis? Surely the term Celtic fan would have been more apt?

See previous answer as the point remains. If you're not bright enough to get it the first time I'm not wasting time repeating it.

[JackRegan]

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See previous answer as the point remains. If you're not bright enough to get it the first time I'm not wasting time repeating it.

[matty_f]

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Wind your neck in.

[easty]

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matty, discussion with you on here always take a familiar turn.

you twist and shift the agenda when your original point has been lost.

this is no different.

But for your peace of mind Why would it be done to quote "to show up the nasty catholics?"

Why bring a religion of what 1 billion people into it? Hwo do we knw they were Catholcis? Surely the term Celtic fan would have been more apt?

Discussions with Celtic fans always take a familiar turn.....not our fault....they're out to get us....what about the time Rangers got this/that.....yawn.

Lennon put unfair pressure on the ref before the old firm game. I couldn't care less how you want us to look at the 'evidence of him just answering questions' comes into it. Lennon is a fud but he's not completely mentally ******ed, he knew (and you know) what he was acheiving by saying what he did.

The penalty that was overturned against United was the correct decision, the penalty, that i'll admit Broadfoot 'won', at the weekend was the correct decision also.

Celtic fans....get over yourselves.

[Jim44]

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The penalty that was overturned against United was the correct decision, the penalty, that i'll admit Broadfoot 'won', at the weekend was the correct decision also.

I don't know how you make this out. It was no penalty as there was no contact because of Broadfoot's lack of timing. If he had kept going forward with his normal momentum, it was a certain penalty. However, by my perverse sense of justice, it was amusing to see Lennon's attempt to 'control and police' the referee backfire in his face.

[easty]

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I don't know how you make this out. It was no penalty as there was no contact because of Broadfoot's lack of timing. If he had kept going forward with his normal momentum, it was a certain penalty. However, by my perverse sense of justice, it was amusing to see Lennon's attempt to 'control and police' the referee backfire in his face.

What? There was clearly contact. Both players left knees come together. Like I said Broadfoot 'won' the penalty because he saw that the defender wasn't going to be able to get out the way, but there was clearly contact between the two.

[swazzie]

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I'll say again - read Lennon's actual quotes. Watch his press conferences and don't be de led by the journalists interpretation of what Lennon said.

As for his pre seaosn instruction about pressing the referee..

Okay did you see what the Dundee united players did last weekend then? there was 6 of them at mcDonald and HE changed his mind - Not the linesman, so it would appear that pressure does work.

Now fast forward to Sunday - How many Celtic players were in Collums face when he gave teh penalty? One. Majstorovic who was involved in the incident.

also - ask yourself this - who's players hound the referee more: Celtic or Rangers?

do you think Nosurname says "look guys - gie the ref a break"

Yet Nosurname was the press TERRIFIED from him and its' "Wily old walter" Yet, Neil Lennon, who said less about refs than Jeffires or even Peter Houston last weekend, is irresponsible and being blamed for a ref getting a nasty phone call.

BTw Where do they get their numbers from? Is their a "Grade One Referees" section in Yellow Pages?

Or was it the fact that the papers printed his workplace, what his faith was and even what town he lived in?

Here, again, are Lennon's quotes

"I would say that refereeing an Old Firm game at any time is difficult but when it is your first one, he might be a wee bit extra nervous," Lennon said.

"I just hope he has a strong game.

"We felt aggrieved at some of the decisions that went against us last year so we hope that he has a good game and makes the right decisions."

So far the counter argument has been "I don't think that that is OTT and is perfectly reasonable"

Is anyone genuinely arguing that these comments weren't designed to put some extra pressure on Collum?

[Jim44]

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What? There was clearly contact. Both players left knees come together. Like I said Broadfoot 'won' the penalty because he saw that the defender wasn't going to be able to get out the way, but there was clearly contact between the two.

Sorry, Easty, I don't see it like you did. I think Broadfoot was well into his dive before any contact might have taken place. Maybe we'll agree to differ.

[Stevie Reid]

I've just remembered that in our second top 6 season under Mixu (season before last), we drew with the Huns at ER and Rangers were denied what appeared to be a clear goal when someone (Stevenson?) hooked a Makalamby blunder from under the crossbar - pictures appeared to show that the ball crossed the line.

The linesman in question was (until recently) my girlfriend's boss and she said that the volume of calls that he got from the press were ridiculous - no deaths threats mind.

I have no wish to defend the Buns here, but that was an incident that cost them the game (in a season when the title was decided on the last day) and the frenzy wasn't anything like this.

[easty]

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Sorry, Easty, I don't see it like you did. I think Broadfoot was well into his dive before any contact might have taken place. Maybe we'll agree to differ.

I dont think so! You'll have to change your mind I'm afraid.

I'm actually not at all in an argumentative mood just now, maybe it's the effect of the Latte and caramel shortbread from Starbucks I've got, so I suppose we can agree to differ (but I am right ...)

[EskbankHibby]

[QUOTE=swazzie;2618930]Here, again, are Lennon's quotes

"I would say that refereeing an Old Firm game at any time is difficult but when it is your first one, he might be a wee bit extra nervous," Lennon said.

"I just hope he has a strong game.

"We felt aggrieved at some of the decisions that went against us last year so we hope that he has a good game and makes the right decisions."

So far the counter argument has been "I don't think that that is OTT and is perfectly reasonable"

Is anyone genuinely arguing that these comments weren't designed to put some extra pressure on Collum?[/QUOTE]

Just one person it would appear.

[marinello59]

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I'll say again - read Lennon's actual quotes. Watch his press conferences and don't be de led by the journalists interpretation of what Lennon said.

As for his pre seaosn instruction about pressing the referee..

Okay did you see what the Dundee united players did last weekend then? there was 6 of them at mcDonald and HE changed his mind - Not the linesman, so it would appear that pressure does work.

Now fast forward to Sunday - How many Celtic players were in Collums face when he gave teh penalty? One. Majstorovic who was involved in the incident.

also - ask yourself this - who's players hound the referee more: Celtic or Rangers?

do you think Nosurname says "look guys - gie the ref a break"

Yet Nosurname was the press TERRIFIED from him and its' "Wily old walter" Yet, Neil Lennon, who said less about refs than Jeffires or even Peter Houston last weekend, is irresponsible and being blamed for a ref getting a nasty phone call.

BTw Where do they get their numbers from? Is their a "Grade One Referees" section in Yellow Pages?

Or was it the fact that the papers printed his workplace, what his faith was and even what town he lived in?

Which group of supporters was it that employed a private detective again?

The rest of your post didn't answer my question but provided a perfect example of how Old Firm fans resort to throwing cr@p at everybody else rather than face up to their own shortcomings.

[Hibs Class]

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Which group of supporters was it that employed a private detective again?

The rest of your post didn't answer my question but provided a perfect example of how Old Firm fans resort to throwing cr@p at everybody else rather than face up to their own shortcomings.

I had thought that it was Celtic themselves that had hired the private detective but now realise from this thread that it was the Celtic supporters. However, I also have a recollection that the club itself had hired a behavioural psychologist to review Hugh Dallas's perfomance after an OF match in 1999. Although I believe the report exonerated Dallas and blamed the Celtic players for the trouble, the Celtic chief exec still blamed Dallas for initiating the trouble by being over friendly in his gestures to Rangers players. (That was the game in which a Celtic fan cut Dallas's head with a coin). It does go to show that the victim mentality at Parkhead isn't new, nor are the reprehensible tactics to play to their support and attempt to exert pressure on referees and the SFA.

[Hainan Hibs]

Nothing makes you question whether life is worthing living like yet another 5 pages with Jack Regan

[easty]

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Nothing makes you question whether life is worthing living like yet another 5 pages with Jack Regan

Agreed. At least you can be sure he's not outside the refs house being abusive, he must be far too busy defending Celtic on the rest of the SPL sides fans forums.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I had thought that it was Celtic themselves that had hired the private detective but now realise from this thread that it was the Celtic supporters. However, I also have a recollection that the club itself had hired a behavioural psychologist to review Hugh Dallas's perfomance after an OF match in 1999. Although I believe the report exonerated Dallas and blamed the Celtic players for the trouble, the Celtic chief exec still blamed Dallas for initiating the trouble by being over friendly in his gestures to Rangers players. (That was the game in which a Celtic fan cut Dallas's head with a coin). It does go to show that the victim mentality at Parkhead isn't new, nor are the reprehensible tactics to play to their support and attempt to exert pressure on referees and the SFA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/scottish_premier/625890.stm

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FOOTBALL%3A+HUGH+BACK+IN+LINE+OF+FIRE%3B+Easter+Ro ad+crunch-a061166243

[GloryGlory]

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What? There was clearly contact. Both players left knees come together. Like I said Broadfoot 'won' the penalty because he saw that the defender wasn't going to be able to get out the way, but there was clearly contact between the two.

TBH, Clubfoot looks like he was already airborne before the first contact by the Celtic defender, from some camera angles, anyway.

Not that that justifies Lennon's wee spoilt bairn attitude that "everyone's out to get us, it's no' our fault", nor does it justify the criminal behaviour of some "supporters", from whatever side of the divide they come, re threatening players' or referees' families, throwing bricks through windows, as has happened before, far less the "normal" A&E admissions for slashings, stabbings, glassings and the rest that is part of the backdrop to each and every one of the "greatest" derby games in the world.

[easty]

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TBH, Clubfoot looks like he was already airborne before the first contact by the Celtic defender, from some camera angles, anyway.
Not that that justifies Lennon's wee spoilt bairn attitude that "everyone's out to get us, it's no' our fault", nor does it justify the criminal behaviour of some "supporters", from whatever side of the divide they come, re threatening players' or referees' families, throwing bricks through windows, as has happened before, far less the "normal" A&E admissions for slashings, stabbings, glassings and the rest that is part of the backdrop to each and every one of the "greatest" derby games in the world.

I wouldn't dispute that, he didn't have to be though. The defender was beaten and the ball was past him, Broadfoot was always going to run into him, it just happens that he decided (as many footballers do nowadays) to take the foul. If he hadn't looked for the pen and stayed on his feet then he still would have run into the defender and had a case for obstruction.

[Jonnyboy]

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Rangers would need to feel aggrived at referees in the first instance.

If you can give me an instance where referees cost them the game then feel free.

Although I notice on here, people are buying the tabloid line that Lennon is to blame for this. Lennon was asked questions on referees and their decisions and he answered then honestly.

what he said was no worse that what any other manager has said when aggrived at decisions - even when TV shows teh ref to be right and the managers complaints to be unfounded - witness Jim Jeffires.

As for the "death threats" I'm not convinced at their authenticity or veracity.

Threats is one thinsg , un provoked actual attacks such as those on Lennon, Darren O'Dea and McGeady are another.

Can you elaborate on this point please Jack? Are you saying Collum made this all up or that the tabloids have sensationalised it by 'upping' the threats to include death of Collum and injury to his family?

I'm beginning to find myself agreeing that it's not Lennon who's causing this stooshie, at least not Lennon alone. The club are as bad as their manager by writing letters of complaint about decisions that have gone against them. I've no problem with them writing but why make that public knowledge if not to pile more pressure on the referees and the SFA.

If it's acceptable practise to write to the SFA regarding decisions that have gone against them should it not also be acceptable practise to write about decisions that went in their favour? For example, Stokes should have seen red for his challenge on Papac but only got a yellow and it's not inconceivable that Collum took that line because of the pressure being piled onto him before the game.