X Factor

[SteveHFC]

Did anyone see Shaun Ryder on the Xtra Factor about two mins ago

[Cropley10]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Matt is the Winner.

Looks like the pro-Wagner crowd got the vote out...

He can barely hold a tune and was flat half a dozen times tonight.

He'll sell nothing - Rebecca, Cher and OD will though. IMHO

[Calvin]

It's a strange topic of song to be a Christmas number one.

[Riordans Boots]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Lots of it is, particularly early on, but the two finalists without any doubt are excellent singers.

The 2 finalists were deffo contenders and both were well deserved to be in the final - I loved them both throughout the show and their performances were literally something else ...

Was a case of voting .... did anyone ???

We did at the very end ...

Voted for Rebecca - but Matt was superb as well and won - so am happy either way

Simon has a deal in the bag for One Direction anyway

Roll oan Christmas

[iwasthere1972]

Matt was below average during the weekend while Rebecca has been superb over the last 10 weeks or so.

Can't wait for Becky to release her first album. She's like Hibs. Full of class.

[Sylar]

Sincerely hope a last minute campaign appears for Biffy Clyro's version to be number 1.

He absolutely destroyed it

Really can't wait until they cancel this pollution of the airwaves - the amount of sub-standard "music artists" it produces, and the songs they butcher en route to becoming a "star" is perplexing at best...

[Houchy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sincerely hope a last minute campaign appears for Biffy Clyro's version to be number 1.

He absolutely destroyed it

Really can't wait until they cancel this pollution of the airwaves - the amount of sub-standard "music artists" it produces, and the songs they butcher en route to becoming a "star" is perplexing at best...

To be fair Scott, while they get 20m Viewers, it's not going to happen mate so the only option is to watch/do something else if you feel that strongly. The fact you know that they "butcher songs on the way" suggests that you have watched a fair few episodes

I'd also argue that despite the "Sub-standard music artists", there have been some successes that have come from the show ie Leona Lewis and Alexandra Burke (Who have both done well, I believe, in America also) ito name 2.

Not having a go at you personally mate

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

To be fair Scott, while they get 20m Viewers, it's not going to happen mate so the only option is to watch/do something else if you feel that strongly. The fact you know that they "butcher songs on the way" suggests that you have watched a fair few episodes

I'd also argue that despite the "Sub-standard music artists", there have been some successes that have come from the show ie Leona Lewis and Alexandra Burke (Who have both done well, I believe, in America also) ito name 2.

Not having a go at you personally mate

I tend to avoid it like the plague mate - thankfully, so does the other half, so I've never been subjected to watching any more and 3 minutes at a time.

I hear these butchered efforts when they make their way into the mainstream radio stations etc, and folk have it on at work. In the past x amount of years, I've heard these people destroy songs by REM, Snow Patrol, Leonard Cohen and now Biffy Clyro. It says to me that Simon Cowell must actually either a) have a decent taste in music or b) must really enjoy torturing those of us who do.

But you're right - having a life which gets me away from the TV makes it easy enough to ignore

[easty]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's a strange topic of song to be a Christmas number one.

Would I be right (probably not) in thinking it's about gay sex? I heard that a while back and it sort of fits the lyrics, can't remember where I heard it though...

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Simon has a deal in the bag for One Direction anyway

I'd be very surprised if One Direction weren't the success story from this years X-Factor. Long term anyway, and Cowell will know it.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sincerely hope a last minute campaign appears for Biffy Clyro's version to be number 1.

He absolutely destroyed it

Really can't wait until they cancel this pollution of the airwaves - the amount of sub-standard "music artists" it produces, and the songs they butcher en route to becoming a "star" is perplexing at best...

Theres always been crap music that people buy in the bucketload, it's certainly not an X-Factor problem. We had Mr Blobby at Xmas number one before X-Factor was about, and 30 years ago it was "There's No One Quite Like Grandma"! Cowells only selling the public what they want, and he'll do it till he gets bored of making money probably.

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Theres always been crap music that people buy in the bucketload, it's certainly not an X-Factor problem. We had Mr Blobby at Xmas number one before X-Factor was about, and 30 years ago it was "There's No One Quite Like Grandma"! Cowells only selling the public what they want, and he'll do it till he gets bored of making money probably.

Aye, but the difference being is that those artists, despite the songs being utterly dross (you can add the South Park Christmas number 1 to the list), they were written uniquely by said artists.

These drones are mutilating good songs with the vocal prowess of a glorified karaoke champion down the local. I accept there are one or two vocally impressive acts to have been discovered (as Houch notes above, in Lewis and Burke), but they're the exception rather than the rule.

[easty]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Aye, but the difference being is that those artists, despite the songs being utterly dross (you can add the South Park Christmas number 1 to the list), they were written uniquely by said artists.

These drones are mutilating good songs with the vocal prowess of a glorified karaoke champion down the local. I accept there are one or two vocally impressive acts to have been discovered (as Houch notes above, in Lewis and Burke), but they're the exception rather than the rule.

I've got my pedant hat on I'm afraid......I don't think Mr Blobby wrote the Mr Blobby song. I'm not even convinced his hands were capable of holding a pen.

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've got my pedant hat on I'm afraid......I don't think Mr Blobby wrote the Mr Blobby song. I'm not even convinced his hands were capable of holding a pen.

[.Sean.]

Anybody else think the 'winners' song' is absolutely brutal?

[Pretty Boy]

I tried to watch X Factor this series just to see what all the fuss was about. Wagner kept me tuning in far longer than i thought i would last but after he went, my viewing stopped.

I actually quite liked Matt at first but as the weeks went on his voice seemed to get much worse as opposed to better. The 'humble' act also started to get on my nerves as it became clear that underneath the quiet, self depricating exterior there was actually quite an arrogant guy who struck me as being a bit of a d*** to be honest.

The constant over the top praise of mediocre performances also started to do my head in. Cher got to the live shows through a combination of a pretty good first audition, a lot of wailing, bog standard rapping in a mockney accent and stealing lyrics from other people and claiming them as her own. Yet every week she was hailed as some kind of musical saviour. I'm sure she will do well because she will appeal to a market who don't want real urban music but want to think they are listening to something 'different'.

Overall i just found the show dull, the 'anomosity' between the judges was tiresome, the performance were generally average, the performers were generally hidden in amongst an over the top stage show with little substance ( perhaps to hide the fact that actual talent was at a premium). I can understand why people like the show but it's not for me and i think my brief flirtation with X factor is well and truly over.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I tried to watch X Factor this series just to see what all the fuss was about. Wagner kept me tuning in far longer than i thought i would last but after he went, my viewing stopped.

I actually quite liked Matt at first but as the weeks went on his voice seemed to get much worse as opposed to better. The 'humble' act also started to get on my nerves as it became clear that underneath the quiet, self depricating exterior there was actually quite an arrogant guy who struck me as being a bit of a d*** to be honest.

The constant over the top praise of mediocre performances also started to do my head in. Cher got to the live shows through a combination of a pretty good first audition, a lot of wailing, bog standard rapping in a mockney accent and stealing lyrics from other people and claiming them as her own. Yet every week she was hailed as some kind of musical saviour. I'm sure she will do well because she will appeal to a market who don't want real urban music but want to think they are listening to something 'different'.

Overall i just found the show dull, the 'anomosity' between the judges was tiresome, the performance were generally average, the performers were generally hidden in amongst an over the top stage show with little substance ( perhaps to hide the fact that actual talent was at a premium). I can understand why people like the show but it's not for me and i think my brief flirtation with X factor is well and truly over.

An amazingly accurate review of the show. Matt was absolutely murder but he was a really nice guy so he deserves to be a star. The bias of the judges and the blatant cheating to get both Cher and Katie onto the live shows and then the blatant cheating in getting Katie through without Cole being forced to vote were laughable. Cringeworthy.

[Hiber-nation]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I tend to avoid it like the plague mate - thankfully, so does the other half, so I've never been subjected to watching any more and 3 minutes at a time.

I hear these butchered efforts when they make their way into the mainstream radio stations etc, and folk have it on at work. In the past x amount of years, I've heard these people destroy songs by REM, Snow Patrol, Leonard Cohen and now Biffy Clyro. It says to me that Simon Cowell must actually either a) have a decent taste in music or b) must really enjoy torturing those of us who do.

But you're right - having a life which gets me away from the TV makes it easy enough to ignore

Compared to this brutal version of Many Of Horror, the previous year's cover versions have actually sounded ok. This has got to be the worst ever. To add a choir and turn a song like this into some happy smiley Christmas no. 1 is just criminal.

[Twa Cairpets]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Aye, but the difference being is that those artists, despite the songs being utterly dross (you can add the South Park Christmas number 1 to the list), they were written uniquely by said artists.

These drones are mutilating good songs with the vocal prowess of a glorified karaoke champion down the local. I accept there are one or two vocally impressive acts to have been discovered (as Houch notes above, in Lewis and Burke), but they're the exception rather than the rule.

This happens every year - "X-factor killing music" "drones" "talentless conveyor belt" ".

Why does an artist have to write his own songes to be considered worthy?

Why is getting your talent recognised via a massive audition process - because that is basically what it is - any less valid than sending in a demo tape and getting discovered that way?

Why do people sneer at talented people getting a break? Matt Cardle is a very good singer, so is Rebecca, and so were a good few of the others. Did you hear Will.I.Am? Its not like he can hold a note really is it, but he's musically acceptable somehow?

And frankly, who cares if it is manipulated. It's a TV show, and ultimately, every year, the finalists have been people who can sing. I dont begrudge them a minute of that.

If you dont like the version of the Biffy Clyro song, fine. I thought it was ok myself, but you dont have to buy it, remember.

[AllyF]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Don't know if I'd be admitting to that with a straight face in the public domain TBH

Utter tripe for the brain-dead masses. I can't stand it, (and therefore know literally nothing about it, except that the girls at work were waffling on about One Direction at the Xmas Party) or any of the "Oh look at me" reality tv programs for wannabe talent-free skanks, ******s or - possibly even worse - Z-list, ****ged out, never-were-much-good-but-are-now-just-embarrassing "celebrities"

Thankfully, I don't have a TV, and anything half decent can be watched online, so I've missed all of this series, and all of "I'm a celbrity blablabla", but the volume of press coverage and emotion/effort that folk put into these freakshows is a tad worrying, if I'm being honest.

I watch X Factor for the entertainment. And because I admire Simon Cowell for being such an evil genius and manipulating the masses.

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This happens every year - "X-factor killing music" "drones" "talentless conveyor belt" ".

Why does an artist have to write his own songes to be considered worthy?

Why is getting your talent recognised via a massive audition process - because that is basically what it is - any less valid than sending in a demo tape and getting discovered that way?

Why do people sneer at talented people getting a break? Matt Cardle is a very good singer, so is Rebecca, and so were a good few of the others. Did you hear Will.I.Am? Its not like he can hold a note really is it, but he's musically acceptable somehow?

And frankly, who cares if it is manipulated. It's a TV show, and ultimately, every year, the finalists have been people who can sing. I dont begrudge them a minute of that.

If you dont like the version of the Biffy Clyro song, fine. I thought it was ok myself, but you dont have to buy it, remember.

Because singing someone elses' songs is easy - where is the creativity in it? Music is an artform, which is a manner of expression - it's hardly expressive if they're busy performing everyone elses material now, is it?

It's not about "being discovered via an audition process" - if were a panel of musicians/producers/label artists or anyone who has experience in the music industry, I'd be inclined to agree with your point, but people (a home based audience) decide who is successful and who is not. By all accounts, the best act (the band who were knocked out last week?) didn't even make the final.

Will.I.Am is musically acceptable as a producer and a writer (I'm not personally a fan), having worked with some of the biggest names in the industry. He doesn't have a great voice, but he can write and perform music, edit music, arrange music and produce successful albums.

This guy will release one album and disappear of the face of the Earth no doubt, just in time for another one to come along next Christmas.

Whatever became of the lad who got pummeled by the Rage campaign last year?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because singing someone elses' songs is easy - where is the creativity in it? Music is an artform, which is a manner of expression - it's hardly expressive if they're busy performing everyone elses material now, is it?

... like the Beatles, Stones, Elvis and the Motown folk when they all started out, you mean?

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

... like the Beatles, Stones, Elvis and the Motown folk when they all started out, you mean?

Considering how different the music industry is nowadays, you're comparing oranges and apples.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Considering how different the music industry is nowadays, you're comparing oranges and sh#te.

Fixed that.

I agree with that, up to a point. I was playing devil's advocate.... slightly. However, I was also responding to the point made that those who write their own music are more worthy than those who don't. Everyone (including those I mentioned) has to start somewhere, and that usually means doing other people's songs.

Steve van Zandt, Springsteen's guitarist and one of my musical heroes, reckons that all bands need to get out there and play....and play other's stuff, to start with, to enable them to find their own voice. That's not, of course, what the X factor types do, but they still should be given respect and time to find their own way.

And then practice "do you want fries with that, sir?"

[Twa Cairpets]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because singing someone elses' songs is easy - where is the creativity in it? Music is an artform, which is a manner of expression - it's hardly expressive if they're busy performing everyone elses material now, is it?

TSSF, this is utter nonsense. A singer (note what they are called) is somehow less valid artistically because they dont perform their own creation? Seriously? So if you're gifted with a good voice (a physical trait) it somewhow doesnt count if you don't also have the ability to be a composer (a mental ability)? Do novellists have to be good orators for their books to be considered to be artistically meritorious?

Lots of songwriters and composers cant sing a note. If they write a song for someone else, who is deviating from the artistic purity you demand?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's not about "being discovered via an audition process" - if were a panel of musicians/producers/label artists or anyone who has experience in the music industry, I'd be inclined to agree with your point, but people (a home based audience) decide who is successful and who is not. By all accounts, the best act (the band who were knocked out last week?) didn't even make the final.

Erm, it is a panel of all the above who choose the final acts. the public whittle it down for sure, but the ones who tend to be left at the business end are good vocalists, and get to that position because they are.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Will.I.Am is musically acceptable as a producer and a writer (I'm not personally a fan), having worked with some of the biggest names in the industry. He doesn't have a great voice, but he can write and perform music, edit music, arrange music and produce successful albums.

I quite like the Black Eyed Peas too, but the boy can't sing and they are mostly a triumph of image over ability. I fail absolutely to see how their/hos route to success is different to what Cowell is doing.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This guy will release one album and disappear of the face of the Earth no doubt, just in time for another one to come along next Christmas.

So what? If he does well out of it, great. I personally think he has a great voice.
By all accounts he's paid his dues (as I suspect you would term it) by gigging in pubs and clubs, but that doesnt matter really. Good luck to him.

[woodythehibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

TSSF, this is utter nonsense. A singer (note what they are called) is somehow less valid artistically because they dont perform their own creation? Seriously? So if you're gifted with a good voice (a physical trait) it somewhow doesnt count if you don't also have the ability to be a composer (a mental ability)? Do novellists have to be good orators for their books to be considered to be artistically meritorious?

Lots of songwriters and composers cant sing a note. If they write a song for someone else, who is deviating from the artistic purity you demand?



Erm, it is a panel of all the above who choose the final acts. the public whittle it down for sure, but the ones who tend to be left at the business end are good vocalists, and get to that position because they are.



I quite like the Black Eyed Peas too, but the boy can't sing and they are mostly a triumph of image over ability. I fail absolutely to see how their/hos route to success is different to what Cowell is doing.

So what? If he does well out of it, great. I personally think he has a great voice.
By all accounts he's paid his dues (as I suspect you would term it) by gigging in pubs and clubs, but that doesnt matter really. Good luck to him.

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

TSSF, this is utter nonsense. A singer (note what they are called) is somehow less valid artistically because they dont perform their own creation? Seriously? So if you're gifted with a good voice (a physical trait) it somewhow doesnt count if you don't also have the ability to be a composer (a mental ability)? Do novellists have to be good orators for their books to be considered to be artistically meritorious?

Lots of songwriters and composers cant sing a note. If they write a song for someone else, who is deviating from the artistic purity you demand?

OK, so you don't see it the same way. Let's take a case example (purely hypothetical) - a young singer/songwriter spends years trying to compose his own music - he goes through trial and error with lyrics and music to accompany it. Eventually he gets a handful of songs he deems good enough, after years of practice to get there. He doesn't have the best voice, but takes an artistic pride in what he's created, gets in front of people and plays/sings something he has put a lot of work to. Compare this to the guy who has a naturally fantastic voice, but no creative license - he employs (or is fortunate enough to be in a position to acquire) the expertise of someone who has gone to the effort of writing/performing, to have someone else make a shed-load of money from just applying his naturally "gifted" ability. You're seriously trying to suggest there's no difference in how artistically these 2 people are?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Erm, it is a panel of all the above who choose the final acts. the public whittle it down for sure, but the ones who tend to be left at the business end are good vocalists, and get to that position because they are.

I don't watch the show one bit, but my understanding (please feel free to address this if wrong) is that it works in a fashion whereby the judges vote based on the artists' performance, and then that vote is compiled with an audience vote, which is actually worth more than the input vote of the judge, so it is deemed to be a "public decision"? I know a few people who do watch this and they were constantly complaining about the quality of some of the acts who were continuing to progress (Wagner?) and those who were booted off, but weren't all that bad (One Direction is it?). When there are so many "upsets" throughout the show, you cannot possibly justify saying that it is purely judged on quality of the contestants, surely?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I quite like the Black Eyed Peas too, but the boy can't sing and they are mostly a triumph of image over ability. I fail absolutely to see how their/hos route to success is different to what Cowell is doing.

I can't stand them in all honesty, but that's by the way - triumph over ability is a pretty harsh criticism though - they do a lot musically, in terms of creation, remixes and composition for other artists - they're different to Cowell's machine, as they rose to prominence off of their own hard work - not someone elses.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So what? If he does well out of it, great. I personally think he has a great voice.
By all accounts he's paid his dues (as I suspect you would term it) by gigging in pubs and clubs, but that doesnt matter really. Good luck to him.

I've absolutely nothing against him - merely the machine which makes him - he's not responsible for chosing these songs which are covered/released - ironically, it's when the X Factor/Fame Academy/Britain's Got Talent (delete as appropriate) winners start making their own decisions, is usually when it starts to go belly up for them.

[Twa Cairpets]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

OK, so you don't see it the same way. Let's take a case example (purely hypothetical) - a young singer/songwriter spends years trying to compose his own music - he goes through trial and error with lyrics and music to accompany it. Eventually he gets a handful of songs he deems good enough, after years of practice to get there. He doesn't have the best voice, but takes an artistic pride in what he's created, gets in front of people and plays/sings something he has put a lot of work to. Compare this to the guy who has a naturally fantastic voice, but no creative license - he employs (or is fortunate enough to be in a position to acquire) the expertise of someone who has gone to the effort of writing/performing, to have someone else make a shed-load of money from just applying his naturally "gifted" ability. You're seriously trying to suggest there's no difference in how artistically these 2 people are?

They're different, yes, but to suggest one is "better" than the other is absurd. A songwriters songs are nothing if they're not sung well.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't watch the show one bit, but my understanding (please feel free to address this if wrong) is that it works in a fashion whereby the judges vote based on the artists' performance, and then that vote is compiled with an audience vote, which is actually worth more than the input vote of the judge, so it is deemed to be a "public decision"? I know a few people who do watch this and they were constantly complaining about the quality of some of the acts who were continuing to progress (Wagner?) and those who were booted off, but weren't all that bad (One Direction is it?). When there are so many "upsets" throughout the show, you cannot possibly justify saying that it is purely judged on quality of the contestants, surely?

You don't watch it one bit but feel entirely justified in slating the perfomers and their output? That's a tad arrogant isn't it?

I didn't say it is purely judged on the quality of the contestants, but at the end of the show, the singers with the good voices tend to be the ones who get voted for, and the Wagners of this world (who I agree are of minimal talent) sink back to where they come from having had their 15 minutes.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I can't stand them in all honesty, but that's by the way - triumph over ability is a pretty harsh criticism though - they do a lot musically, in terms of creation, remixes and composition for other artists - they're different to Cowell's machine, as they rose to prominence off of their own hard work - not someone elses.

Your'e having a giraffe. Everyone who isn't Cowellesque has risen by their own graft and talent? Bollox. Manipulation by everyone involved to make money, with very few exceptions is a charge applicable to virtually every recording artist on the planet.

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They're different, yes, but to suggest one is "better" than the other is absurd. A songwriters songs are nothing if they're not sung well.

But where is the artistic creation in just singing it? By your own wording, a good singer has a "physically gifted trait" - it's a natural ability and it's therefore easier to adapt that to something someone has created. Where is the artistic element of simply singing someone elses song?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You don't watch it one bit but feel entirely justified in slating the perfomers and their output? That's a tad arrogant isn't it?

I didn't say it is purely judged on the quality of the contestants, but at the end of the show, the singers with the good voices tend to be the ones who get voted for, and the Wagners of this world (who I agree are of minimal talent) sink back to where they come from having had their 15 minutes.

How do you come to arrogant? So I don't watch the show - these people reach well beyond X Factor once they start working with other people and releasing material at the end of the show. It SHOULD be based on the quality of the contestants, as that's what the show aims to achieve - unearthing the most talented vocalist/singer amongst a bad lot. I've heard his (Matt's) "version" of Many of Horror a couple of times - are you really telling me he was the best person to come through that show? He's not as bad as SOME who have won it in the past, but his version of that song was flat and his voice cracked in places. He missed the tone more than once and didn't sound any better than some amateur singers I know.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Your'e having a giraffe. Everyone who isn't Cowellesque has risen by their own graft and talent? Bollox. Manipulation by everyone involved to make money, with very few exceptions is a charge applicable to virtually every recording artist on the planet.

I'd appreciate you don't quote me out of context - you presented the specific example of the Black Eyed Peas, and I responded - I'm not so naive to believe that everyone not affiliated with the X Factor type rise has done so off their own graft, but I certainly have much more respect for those artists/bands who have.

[Twa Cairpets]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But where is the artistic creation in just singing it? By your own wording, a good singer has a "physically gifted trait" - it's a natural ability and it's therefore easier to adapt that to something someone has created. Where is the artistic element of simply singing someone elses song?

The words of a song, to have maximum impact and resonance, need to have a talented vocalist. Having the physical ability to sing is the base requirement - the emotion and interpretation and delivery is what makes the artist. I'm not belittling the ability of people to construct a tune or put words to it, but I do not see why it has to put on some mythical pedestal of heightened artistic merit?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How do you come to arrogant? So I don't watch the show - these people reach well beyond X Factor once they start working with other people and releasing material at the end of the show. It SHOULD be based on the quality of the contestants, as that's what the show aims to achieve - unearthing the most talented vocalist/singer amongst a bad lot. I've heard his (Matt's) "version" of Many of Horror a couple of times - are you really telling me he was the best person to come through that show? He's not as bad as SOME who have won it in the past, but his version of that song was flat and his voice cracked in places. He missed the tone more than once and didn't sound any better than some amateur singers I know.

I come to arrogant on the basis that your criticism is based on one song and not watching a show you're slating. Lots of it is undeniably pap - the glorification of genuine mediocrity such as Wagner and Jedward, as well as being something of a freak show in the audition stages, the attendant "Heat" and "Celebrity News" that surrounds it - but at the end of the process you did this year, as most years, have singers who can sing.

You're criticism of Matt Cardle is based on one song which you don't like. Do a google of some of his other performances, and you will see that the lad can really deliver a tune. You might not like what he sings, but he can sing, and to a very very high standard.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd appreciate you don't quote me out of context - you presented the specific example of the Black Eyed Peas, and I responded - I'm not so naive to believe that everyone not affiliated with the X Factor type rise has done so off their own graft, but I certainly have much more respect for those artists/bands who have.

Fair do's - I was extrapolating unfairly. I do think it is still a valid point though - pretty much every commercially successful artist is so because of the apparatus of the music industry making them so. There are very few I can think of who have risen to their point of success on nothing but a wave of pure (in every sense of the word) talent.

[Betty Boop]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The words of a song, to have maximum impact and resonance, need to have a talented vocalist. Having the physical ability to sing is the base requirement - the emotion and interpretation and delivery is what makes the artist. I'm not belittling the ability of people to construct a tune or put words to it, but I do not see why it has to put on some mythical pedestal of heightened artistic merit?



I come to arrogant on the basis that your criticism is based on one song and not watching a show you're slating. Lots of it is undeniably pap - the glorification of genuine mediocrity such as Wagner and Jedward, as well as being something of a freak show in the audition stages, the attendant "Heat" and "Celebrity News" that surrounds it - but at the end of the process you did this year, as most years, have singers who can sing.

You're criticism of Matt Cardle is based on one song which you don't like. Do a google of some of his other performances, and you will see that the lad can really deliver a tune. You might not like what he sings, but he can sing, and to a very very high standard.


Fair do's - I was extrapolating unfairly. I do think it is still a valid point though - pretty much every commercially successful artist is so because of the apparatus of the music industry making them so. There are very few I can think of who have risen to their point of success on nothing but a wave of pure (in every sense of the word) talent.

His version of 'The First Time (ever I saw your face) was outstanding.