NFL/NCAA (American Football)

***Sylar*** · 09-05-2015 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Did you watch the interview at Salem University yesterday? He looked so uncomfortable refusing to answer simple questions about it, despite being in front of a rabidly supportive audience.

I did, and I confess to having cringed a few times - a combination of uncomfortable but also smug at points.

Most likely, he'll hide behind his lawyers and the club, who'll understandably (but not justifiably IMO) protect him.

I do find it quite galling how visciously the US sport media are going after us though and taking a bit too much glee in what potential punishment should be handed down.

**DH1875** · 09-05-2015 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by DH1875

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's it spirit

. You tell them low down dirty cheating patsies how it really is

.

My bad, post was ment to say, Thats's the spirit Scott

. You tell them low down dirty cheating paties how it really is

.

.

All that was missing was the Michigan connection and it would have been post of the year

.

***Sylar*** · 11-05-2015 09:52 PM

Fined $1 million and Brady suspended for 4 games of the season...magic.

**Haymaker** · 11-05-2015 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fined $1 million and Brady suspended for 4 games of the season...magic.

Will be argued down and halved in my opinion. Oh well. Let's see what our back up has in his locker.

**Gatecrasher** · 12-05-2015 07:20 AM

also losing a first round pick in 2016 and a fourth round pick in 2017

***Sylar*** · 12-05-2015 07:46 AM

Having read the full report, I find myself quite perturbed by the severity of the punishment given the total lack of hard evidence or incontrovertible fact contained within it. They allege Brady must have known because there were text messages and phone calls exchanged between our equipment guys and Brady - the texts were published in the report and it was banal content such as "how are you doing?", "call me when you a get a minute" etc etc.

They can't actually prove tampering occurred - the scientific analysis suggests that environmental factors alone couldn't have caused the deflation but that doesn't 'prove' anything.

I mean sure, it looks quite likely it was the case but the evidence and solidity of that evidence is utterly lousy and the punishment is hugely disproportionate to the crime IMO.

I maintain, based on how likely it looks, I'm incredibly disappointed they felt they weren't good enough to beat Indy in a straight-up contest, particularly given how easily we blew them out using properly inflated balls in the second half. If he did have some knowledge, Brady should be forced to come out and apologise as he's hurt the future of his time by costing a huge lump of money and draft picks including a first rounder.

**DarrenSQH** · 14-05-2015 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sylar

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Having read the full report, I find myself quite perturbed by the severity of the punishment given the total lack of hard evidence or incontrovertible fact contained within it. They allege Brady must have known because there were text messages and phone calls exchanged between our equipment guys and Brady - the texts were published in the report and it was banal content such as "how are you doing?", "call me when you a get a minute" etc etc.

They can't actually prove tampering occurred - the scientific analysis suggests that environmental factors alone couldn't have caused the deflation but that doesn't 'prove' anything.

I mean sure, it looks quite likely it was the case but the evidence and solidity of that evidence is utterly lousy and the punishment is hugely disproportionate to the crime IMO.

I maintain, based on how likely it looks, I'm incredibly disappointed they felt they weren't good enough to beat Indy in a straight-up contest, particularly given how easily we blew them out using properly inflated balls in the second half. If he did have some knowledge, Brady should be forced to come out and apologise as he's hurt the future of his time by costing a huge lump of money and draft picks including a first rounder.

They had zero evidence on the saints and Sean Payton and look how that went.

Goodell is a bigger problem to the league than anthing else.

**KirkyK** · 15-05-2015 10:43 AM

Brady hires a so called superstar legal team who've beaten the NFL a number of times before.

Some saying they don't expect him to miss a game.

On top of that patriots get a Nobel laureate in chemistry to refute the science in the wells report.

**SmithyHibee** · 15-05-2015 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by KirkyK

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Brady hires a so called superstar legal team who've beaten the NFL a number of times before.

Some saying they don't expect him to miss a game.

On top of that patriots get a Nobel laureate in chemistry to refute the science in the wells report.

Yet they also claim the guy was called "the deflator" because he'd been losing weight. Their rebuttal really is laughable!

***Sylar*** · 15-05-2015 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by SmithyHibee

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet they also claim the guy was called "the deflator" because he'd been losing weight. Their rebuttal really is laughable!

I cringed at parts of it but again, having read the full response, parts of it are perfectly sensible and expected.

Neither report says anything particularly damning in either direction and there's a LOT of supposition on both sides.

A jury would never have convicted on the evidence that Wells put forward but nor would some of the assertions in the rebuttal result in admonishing someone of their guilt.

Far too much in the way of guessing and circumstantial evidence on both sides of the divide.

**HibsMax** · 15-05-2015 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by SmithyHibee

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet they also claim the guy was called "the deflator" because he'd been losing weight. Their rebuttal really is laughable!

Did you read the entire rebuttal, or did you read the headline that you referred to in your first sentence? The refutation is actually a very interesting read and uncovers a lot of holes in the Wells report. When I read the Wells report I too was thinking that the Pats MUST be guilty but when I read the refutation, it opened my eyes. The biggest mistake I made when reading the Wells report was assuming that it was unbiased and factual but in reality they shine a very bright light on areas that they want people to focus on while skimming over other important details. In case you can't be bothered reading the 20,000 refutation, I'll give you one example. What were the pressure ratings for the Patriots balls before the game? How do you know that? Was anything written down? There were two pressure gauges used but it's not clear which one was used. The gauges give pretty inconsistent results, and the Wells report uses those inconsistencies inconsistently i.e., the use one gauge to prove one thing then the other gauge to prove something else. Something else which doesn't prove anything at all but I still find it concerning...there was concern over the pressure of the Patriots footballs and this was expressed to many different NFL officials before the game, including Walt Anderson the referee. Yet, even though these concerns were raised there were still no special measures taken e.g., actually recording the pre-game pressures. There is a lot of talk about how McNally "snuck" away with the balls but in reality that did not happen, not like that. He had to make his way to the field while passing by the referees and several other NFL officials, yet nobody said a word. All this concern about potential issues with ball pressure yet nobody does anything to secure the footballs, measure the pre-game PSI or stop McNally on his way to the field? Doesn't seem like a lot of concern to me.

What about the Vikings / Panthers game when they were caught on TV heating up balls on the sideline? What happened to them? A warning. But when something similar crops up against the Patriots, even though there is no proof, we get $1,000,000 fine, lose 2 draft picks and Brady out for 4 games. We don't know what the PSIs were before the game so we can only guess at how much pressure was actually lost. Why are people so keen to believe Walt Anderson's memory of pre-game ball pressures? Isn't it possible that his memory might be off by 0.5psi?

***Sylar*** · 18-05-2015 04:13 PM

http://yourteamcheats.com/

Leaving that here without comment!

**Haymaker** · 18-05-2015 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://yourteamcheats.com/

Leaving that here without comment!

**hibsbollah** · 18-05-2015 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://yourteamcheats.com/

Leaving that here without comment!

Haha. According to that, because Seattle breached the league's rule about no contact in practice games, this is somehow equivalent to deflategate?

Pats fans need to be careful with the 'everyone's out to get us' schtick. The huns of the NFL?

**Haymaker** · 18-05-2015 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Haha. According to that, because Seattle breached the league's rule about no contact in practice games, this is somehow equivalent to deflategate?

Pats fans need to be careful with the 'everyone's out to get us' schtick. The huns of the NFL?

Cheating is cheating

Interesting that The Jessies and Denver are ranked higher than us...

**James.** · 19-05-2015 08:54 PM

Oh come on!! I'll bite!!

Most of those incidents are individuals making daft, in the moment choices - some random, ex Jet coach sticks his knee out from the sideline is the same as deflate gate and spy gate together??

Patriots' cheating is much more ingrained into the fabric and ethos of the organisation and has been for years!

I'd say there is more a yammish element about New England fans - in the sense that they are delusional and fail to notice how truly brilliant their rivals in green are!

**hibsbollah** · 20-05-2015 10:40 AM

Extra points will now be kicked from 15 yards further back. Will make things more unpredictable..

***Sylar*** · 20-05-2015 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by AyrshireHibs

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Oh come on!! I'll bite!!

Most of those incidents are individuals making daft, in the moment choices - some random, ex Jet coach sticks his knee out from the sideline is the same as deflate gate and spy gate together??

Patriots' cheating is much more ingrained into the fabric and ethos of the organisation and has been for years!

I'd say there is more a yammish element about New England fans - in the sense that they are delusional and fail to notice how truly brilliant their rivals in green are!

I did say I was leaving it without comment - I just found it amusing (though you're right, it was a bit of a fishing expedition).

It's clear that it's been put together by a Patriots fan right enough given the comments that accompany some of the Jets entries

I don't think I'm Yammish in any way so I resent that! I wouldn't say there's anything 'brilliant' about your lot (certainly on the field) but there is a lot I admire about the Jets organisation, namely how locally loyal they are as a club - despite how poor you've traditionally been on the field over the years, your fans are among the most loyal in the NFL and it's laudable. Not to mention that your defense this year will probably be the envy of the entire league!

**Haymaker** · 20-05-2015 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Extra points will now be kicked from 15 yards further back. Will make things more unpredictable..

Good idea. PAs were something crazy like 99% completed last year.

**DH1875** · 20-05-2015 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by AyrshireHibs

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd say there is more a yammish element about New England fans - in the sense that they are delusional and fail to notice how truly brilliant their rivals in green are!

.

**HibsMax** · 21-05-2015 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Haha. According to that, because Seattle breached the league's rule about no contact in practice games, this is somehow equivalent to deflategate?

Pats fans need to be careful with the 'everyone's out to get us' schtick. The huns of the NFL?

I don't think anyone is trying to equate A with B. The point is that many fans are outraged by this latest incident and talk as if every other team in the league has never done anything wrong. That's just not true.

Revis came out yesterday and said:
"You got SpyGate, you got this and that and everything else"

Seriously? Everyone talks about SpyGate but what is "this", "that" and "everything else"? If the Patriots cheating is so out of control, why not give some examples that people haven't heard of? SpyGate is old news, wasn't considered a big deal at the time AND we were punished for it. So that kinda puts to rest those ridiculous remarks I've read like, "The Pats get away with it (cheating) over and over again". When you try to get something solid out of people, guess what they say? SpyGate!!

I don't think everyone is out to get us, this is more about what fans of other teams are saying. Like their sh*t don't stink.

**HibsMax** · 21-05-2015 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by AyrshireHibs

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Oh come on!! I'll bite!!

Most of those incidents are individuals making daft, in the moment choices - some random, ex Jet coach sticks his knee out from the sideline is the same as deflate gate and spy gate together??

Patriots' cheating is much more ingrained into the fabric and ethos of the organisation and has been for years!

I'd say there is more a yammish element about New England fans - in the sense that they are delusional and fail to notice how truly brilliant their rivals in green are!

It's funny how when the Pats are accused of cheating, it's national news. When you start to talk about other teams cheating, it becomes trivial and laughable. Don't forget that in this incident, it's Brady that is being held accountable, not the entire organization. If he is guilty then you could say, "an individual making a daft choice".

Explain your "ingrained" comment please. SpyGate and now this. What else?

**James.** · 21-05-2015 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by HibsMax

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's funny how when the Pats are accused of cheating, it's national news. When you start to talk about other teams cheating, it becomes trivial and laughable. Don't forget that in this incident, it's Brady that is being held accountable, not the entire organization. If he is guilty then you could say, "an individual making a daft choice".

Explain your "ingrained" comment please. SpyGate and now this. What else?

This isn't just me who says this by the way! It's pretty much the general consensus of most NFL fans from what I can gather.
http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPoll...pollId=4674920

You brush off these as if this practice had no effect on the Patriots and their success in the years before then - this is the big issue here. Three teams were potentially robbed of a Super Bowl because of this and possibly an AFC team were robbed of a pennant this year.

The 2002 superbowl? Apparently videotaping the heavily favoured Rams' walkthroughs - then being able to defend every run play to perfection despite St. Louis having never actually ran them on the field before.

2004 Superbowl? Allegedly videotaping the Panthers practice in Houston during Superbowl week. If they were taping this and taping in 2007, I'll let you fill in the blanks about 2005.

No Superbowl wins after they are caught cheating in 2007. Only win another Super Bowl when their QB is caught tampering with footballs (for how long we don't know)

Even when the Broncos were caught cheating it happened to be a former assistant to Bill Belichick that was responsible. He wants to win at all cost and it's blatantly obvious that he has instilled a culture of cheating in Foxboro.

Listen, if it was my team I'd defend them at all costs too but there's no smoke (and lets be honest theres a hell of a lot of smoke here) without fire.

**hibsbollah** · 22-05-2015 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by HibsMax

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't think anyone is trying to equate A with B. The point is that many fans are outraged by this latest incident and talk as if every other team in the league has never done anything wrong. That's just not true.

Revis came out yesterday and said:
"You got SpyGate, you got this and that and everything else"

Seriously? Everyone talks about SpyGate but what is "this", "that" and "everything else"? If the Patriots cheating is so out of control, why not give some examples that people haven't heard of? SpyGate is old news, wasn't considered a big deal at the time AND we were punished for it. So that kinda puts to rest those ridiculous remarks I've read like, "The Pats get away with it (cheating) over and over again". When you try to get something solid out of people, guess what they say? SpyGate!!

I don't think everyone is out to get us, this is more about what fans of other teams are saying. Like their sh*t don't stink.

I don't know what these apocryphal 'other fans' are saying. But going by Seahawks.net which is my only other avenue to fans' opinion(

) the prevailing view is we're all sick of hearing about it now, and it's symptomatic of the east coast centric media. Brady has behaved like a bit of a dick, (I challenge anyone to watch that Salem university appearance and say the guy didn't look shifty as hell), and because he has a squeaky clean image (lance Armstrong?) it grates more than it would with another player, but really, we're all a lot more interested with what's going on with our own team's rosters.

***Sylar*** · 22-05-2015 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by AyrshireHibs

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This isn't just me who says this by the way! It's pretty much the general consensus of most NFL fans from what I can gather.
http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPoll...pollId=4674920

You brush off these as if this practice had no effect on the Patriots and their success in the years before then - this is the big issue here. Three teams were potentially robbed of a Super Bowl because of this and possibly an AFC team were robbed of a pennant this year.

The 2002 superbowl? Apparently videotaping the heavily favoured Rams' walkthroughs - then being able to defend every run play to perfection despite St. Louis having never actually ran them on the field before.

2004 Superbowl? Allegedly videotaping the Panthers practice in Houston during Superbowl week. If they were taping this and taping in 2007, I'll let you fill in the blanks about 2005.

No Superbowl wins after they are caught cheating in 2007. Only win another Super Bowl when their QB is caught tampering with footballs (for how long we don't know)

Even when the Broncos were caught cheating it happened to be a former assistant to Bill Belichick that was responsible. He wants to win at all cost and it's blatantly obvious that he has instilled a culture of cheating in Foxboro.

Listen, if it was my team I'd defend them at all costs too but there's no smoke (and lets be honest theres a hell of a lot of smoke here) without fire.

How do you work that one out? Indianapolis used their own balls and only scored 7 points at half-time. We used allegedly intentionally deflated balls and scored 7 points...the Colts balls remained the same in the second half and they didn't score...we used the properly inflated balls and rattled 35 points past them...I'm defending the practice if it happened but you're grossly overstating the significance of it in terms of the outcome of the game.

A lot of "apparently's", "if's" and "allegedly's" in the rest of your post, which is the point Max is making - it's easy to say "Oh, it's the Patriots, they must be cheating" because other fans would rather that be the case. Recall in 2006 how you were "allegedly" video-taping our defensive signals? Or in 2001, how the Giants were "apparently" listening in on audio conversations between opposition coaches/upstairs staff? I get that we were found guilty of it but no smoke, as you say...Incidentally, I believe it was eventually concluded that there was absolutely zero evidence we taped St Louis' walk-through in 2001 but no doubt this is all part of some grand cover up by the league (which I've read on several NFL messageboards over the years - honestly, it's like reading the posts of yore when the Celtic fans claimed the grand Masonic conspiracy of the SPL or vice versa with the Rangers fans and their Catholic conspiracies.

That Belichick wants to win is blatantly obvious but this 'culture of cheating' you allude to is totally unsubstantiated hogwash. I've said all along that I've been very uncomfortable with the deflation scandal and how Brady has come out the other side of it - his interview at Salem, as bollah points out, is cringeworthy for any Patriots fan to watch and suggests he's guilty as sin. To use this as evidence of 'institutional corruption', whilst defending some of your own instances as 'individual choice' is risible.

**James.** · 06-06-2015 04:14 PM

Just seeing this for the first time. The Clay Matthews and Ike Taylor ones are my favourites

***Sylar*** · 12-06-2015 07:16 PM

Looks like we maybe have some concerns regarding Garoppolo as we've just acquired Matt Flynn from Seattle!

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...-qb-matt-flynn

**Haymaker** · 12-06-2015 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Looks like we maybe have some concerns regarding Garoppolo as we've just acquired Matt Flynn from Seattle!

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...-qb-matt-flynn

Matt flynn is decent. Reckon Brady will start the season myself though.