NFL/NCAA (American Football)

[Haymaker]

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Expecting it to be an expensive weekend down there as well

If you're like me and enjoy a beer or two at the football it will be! £20.80 for 4 pints of "lager" (Carlsberg)

[James.]

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Seems our game against the fish sold out in record time . I know they have a fan base over here but honestly surprised given how poor a side we are.

Both teams must be in the top 10 in terms of fan bases in the UK? Gutted to be missing it but sadly in my line of work I can't pick or choose my holidays!

[James.]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....

The upstanding New England Deflatriots appear to have been caught cheating again!

I have no idea about the virtues of an under inflated football (or eleven of them for that matter) but it seems serious enough.

[Sergio sledge]

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Is it not the case that the balls are centrally distributed for both teams? E.g., the Patriots don't hand the officials specific balls for their own offensive downs? They're handed over when requested by the officials - if that's the case, wouldn't both teams use this deflated ball?

Finally, how do they verify they've been deflated deliberately and didn't just lose pressure during the game (slow puncture etc?).

I found this on another article:

"For every N.F.L. game, each team has 12 to 20 balls that it has meticulously groomed and prepared according to the needs of its starting quarterback. The balls, brushed and primed using various obvious and semisecret techniques, bear the team logo and are switched out from sideline to sideline depending on which team is on offense.

That means that from series to series, the ball in play can feel wholly different, but each team's quarterback always has a ball prepped by his equipment staff the way he likes it."

Seems 11 of the 12 patriots balls were underinflated. It could just be that they were inflated inside at a warm temperature and then when they cooled down they lost pressure due to the air contracting. I've no idea how they'd prove that it was deliberate.

[Haymaker]

Surely the refs inspect each ball and would notice every time they held them. I notice if a football is under inflated in my youth games.

Plus how can they prove it was deliberately done?

[James.]

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Surely the refs inspect each ball and would notice every time they held them. I notice if a football is under inflated in my youth games.

Plus how can they prove it was deliberately done?

The balls are apparently inspected before hand. So if they have been tampered with it's been when they've returned them to New England. Was it not one of the Colts' DBs that noticed when he picked off Brady?

[Haymaker]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/20/nfl-says-patriots-used-under-inflated-footballs/7UlPZI3eotRTBadM89saeO/story.html

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The balls are apparently inspected before hand. So if they have been tampered with it's been when they've returned them to New England. Was it not one of the Colts' DBs that noticed when he picked off Brady?

Was a coach when he was picked off. However the refs continued to handle the balls every play the Patriots had. Plus, why were 11 under weight? Surely if you were being sneaky you would have one under weight and slip it into the game when on certain plays to avoid detection?

EDIT: Apparently the balls were weighed at half time and corrected. Patriots went on to score 28 points in the second half.

Aaron Rodgers over inflates his game balls.

[DH1875]

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Both teams must be in the top 10 in terms of fan bases in the UK? Gutted to be missing it but sadly in my line of work I can't pick or choose my holidays!

We arent in the top 10 . Can't believe your missing it, thats what sick days are for.

[HibsMax]

I don't know what happened and I will wait until the NFL reports back. At the moment all we know is that 11 out of 12 balls used by the Patriots (not kicking balls) were found to be under-inflated at half-time. I didn't hear but I assume they were re-inflated.....and the Pats went on to score a bucketload of points. The balls were all OK beforehand. This has nothing to do with temperature as (1) c'mon, it's New England, we play in much colder temps than this without balls deflating, and (2) the Colts' balls were found to be OK. Someone deflated the Pats' game balls but we don't know who. The obvious culprits are the Patriots because softer balls are easier to grip, throw and catch. Brady has also been noted as saying he likes playing with under-inflated balls. Given that statement and the common belief that a softer ball gives a team an advantage, there is only one guilty party - the Pats. That's all well and good but I prefer my evidence to have a little more meat on it. This is all circumstantial. If we're going to conduct a proper investigation then all parties have to be considered.

This looks pretty bad and even if it didn't have any bearing on the final scoreline, it's just another reason to taint the legacy. It doesn't matter if we go on to win the Superbowl by 50 points, all people will remember is the Pats and yet another controversy (even though the whole Spygate thing was blown out of proportion - that's the opinion of people close to the game, not fans who are usually rabid haters).

[Haymaker]

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I don't know what happened and I will wait until the NFL reports back. At the moment all we know is that 11 out of 12 balls used by the Patriots (not kicking balls) were found to be under-inflated at half-time. I didn't hear but I assume they were re-inflated.....and the Pats went on to score a bucketload of points. The balls were all OK beforehand. This has nothing to do with temperature as (1) c'mon, it's New England, we play in much colder temps than this without balls deflating, and (2) the Colts' balls were found to be OK. Someone deflated the Pats' game balls but we don't know who. The obvious culprits are the Patriots because softer balls are easier to grip, throw and catch. Brady has also been noted as saying he likes playing with under-inflated balls. Given that statement and the common belief that a softer ball gives a team an advantage, there is only one guilty party - the Pats. That's all well and good but I prefer my evidence to have a little more meat on it. This is all circumstantial. If we're going to conduct a proper investigation then all parties have to be considered.

This looks pretty bad and even if it didn't have any bearing on the final scoreline, it's just another reason to taint the legacy. It doesn't matter if we go on to win the Superbowl by 50 points, all people will remember is the Pats and yet another controversy (even though the whole Spygate thing was blown out of proportion - that's the opinion of people close to the game, not fans who are usually rabid haters).

I read somewhere that once the balls are delivered to the Ref then the balls are therefore the refs responsibility.

[Sergio sledge]

http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-was-a...ium=socialflow

Rumours are that the pats have done this before....

[HibsMax]

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http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-was-a...ium=socialflow

Rumours are that the pats have done this before....

Pretty much everything the Pats have ever done is under the microscope now (well, more than ever I should say).

This is just ugly. I've never been in this position before. I kinda feel like I'm supporting one of the Old Firm.

[DH1875]

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I read somewhere that once the balls are delivered to the Ref then the balls are therefore the refs responsibility.

Aye, it was the ref what done it

[Haymaker]

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Aye, it was the ref what done it

Yep.

[HibsMax]

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I read somewhere that once the balls are delivered to the Ref then the balls are therefore the refs responsibility.

As this story was growing legs there was a lot of misinformation spread around. Here is my understanding:

• Each team provides 12 balls which are inspected by the referee 2hr 15mins before the game.
• After the balls have been inspected they are returned to the ball boy / team equipment manager (not sure exactly who, but someone on the team).
• There are 12 K (kicking balls) which are delivered to the referee and not touched by anyone from either team.
• The visiting team is allowed to bring 12 extra balls for outside games.

Sunday's Game:

• You can get the full script online but basically someone on the Colts thought the ball felt weird (after he intercepted Brady).
• This information was run up the chain and at half time the balls were re-inspected.
• The Colts' balls were found to be fine.
• 11 out of 12 of the Pats' balls were found to be about 2psi under the legal lower limit.
• I have not read this confirmed but I am assuming that the 11 balls were re-inflated to spec meaning (1) the "advantage" was only for one half, (2) the "advantage" was clearly misjudged since the Pats scored more points in the second half with the inflated balls.

Belichick spoke this morning and said he has no idea how this could have happened.

All of this sounds extremely odd but without evidence we don't know whether:

• The Pats did this looking for an advantage,
• Someone else did this for some reason e.g., make the Pats look bad.

The first option is easier to believe so the court of public opinion has already completed their trial and found the Pats guilty of tampering. I'm not burying my head in the sand but I will wait for the process to complete before making my own judgement. When you think about it, with the Pats checkered past it's not that difficult to make us look bad. All you need to do is suggest some wrongdoing and pretty much everyone will lap it up even with a total lack of evidence.

Perhaps someone was trying to disadvantage the Pats as opposed to them seeking an advantage? However, again given our past it's much simpler to assume that the Pats are the guilty party rather than a victim.

[HibsMax]

Belichick Press Conference Summary: I know nothing.
Brady Press Conference Summary: I know nothing.

One thing from Brady's presser that I didn't like was this. At one point he said that he liked playing with balls at the lower end of the PSI scale. Later on he said he couldn't tell the difference between the balls in the first half versus those in the second half. How can you have a PSI preference but also not feel the difference? One thing I would say is that I like playing with a light pool cue (18.5oz) but if you gave me a 19.5oz cue I probably wouldn't notice. That doesn't change my preference for playing with a lighter cue though.

[NOLA]

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Both teams must be in the top 10 in terms of fan bases in the UK? Gutted to be missing it but sadly in my line of work I can't pick or choose my holidays!

no idea of the top 10 UK nfl fanbases but if i was to guess id go with this in no order -
patriots giants dolphins packers 49rs steelers cowboys eagles bears raiders, in the last 10 years the Saints UK fanbase has grown and im guessing with their recent success the Seahawks will be more fashionable now (glory hunters)

[Gatecrasher]

[Gatecrasher]

[DH1875]

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no idea of the top 10 UK nfl fanbases but if i was to guess id go with this in no order -
patriots giants dolphins packers 49rs steelers cowboys eagles bears raiders, in the last 10 years the Saints UK fanbase has grown and im guessing with their recent success the Seahawks will be more fashionable now (glory hunters)

Tampa Bay are some how in the top 10. NFLUK done a report on this a couple of years ago. We were nowhere near top 10 and thats when we had a decent team.

[James.]

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no idea of the top 10 UK nfl fanbases but if i was to guess id go with this in no order -
patriots giants dolphins packers 49rs steelers cowboys eagles bears raiders, in the last 10 years the Saints UK fanbase has grown and im guessing with their recent success the Seahawks will be more fashionable now (glory hunters)

Cant find any decent surveys or stats to back up any claims but Deflatriots and Dolphins seem to be particularly popular. However there's a fascinating map out there which breaks every US county down by NFL support. Only one team in the league failed to register as being the most supported team in any county and that would be us Jets I would have thought we would be the dominant team in the likes of Queens, Long Island and even upstate where Cortland is however it appears New York is Giants' country.

[James.]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/10/twitter-map-nfl-fans

a link to the map. Pretty cool.

[DH1875]

And it seems the Eagles have a bigger fan base in new jersey than us

[NOLA]

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Tampa Bay are some how in the top 10. NFLUK done a report on this a couple of years ago. We were nowhere near top 10 and thats when we had a decent team.

found this report from last year - http://www.tuesdaymorningfootball.co...are-less-about

[Sylar]

Y'know what? ESPN and all of those other fans out there who have already tried and condemned us better be prepared to apologise if we're found to have done nothing wrong. This witch-hunt is getting totally silly now and is proving to be a ludicrous distraction from the Superbowl.

The ONLY way it can be clarified if this was cheating or not will be if either someone in the New England equipment team 'confesses' or if the officials have a before/after measurements for the Colts balls for comparison.

Brady has said he likes the ball at the minimum legal limit of 12.5, so that's what they're set to. Belichick was quite right yesterday when he points out that the controlled environment they're prepared in is a lot warmer than field conditions. The temperature (anyone remember/familiar with Boyle's law?) would undoubtedly impact ball pressure and if the balls are originally only set at the limit, of course they're going to gradually reduce in pressure over time, which would be reduced in frigid conditions.

It would be interesting to know what the Colts' footballs started at and how those measurements differed when they were measured at half time - all the officials said was that they were within legal limits - did their balls still experience a drop in pressure though?

It would be really interesting for someone to conduct a proper, independent experiment on ball-pressure differentials, simulating the gameday temperatures from last week. Inflate them to minimum 12.5 requirement in a warm environment, expose them to the temperature experienced in Foxborough last week for the same duration as the first half took and then check them again once back inside. With my science hat on, I'd expect them to be less pressurised.

No doubt the fact that I'm a fan will nullify my science background here and I'll be lumped in with those accused of defending cheating/being an apologist but to my mind, some people have been far too quick and willing to pass out the condemnation and guilty verdicts simply because it's us.

[hibsbollah]

I really don't care about the inflated balls story. Its something the officials should have better control over. What worries me is the potential for creating a 'no one likes us we don't care' attitude in the Patriots camp. Bellichik will use it as motivation.

[Sylar]

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I really don't care about the inflated balls story. Its something the officials should have better control over. What worries me is the potential for creating a 'no one likes us we don't care' attitude in the Patriots camp. Bellichik will use it as motivation.

In fairness G, I think that's an attitude that permeates in New England already.

We're a team that most people in the league love to hate/kick - a combination of our success over the past decade and the Spygate debacle. That's certainly how I feel anyway but c'est la vie...

This has probably been a welcome distraction from some of the other issues that have arisen since the seasons' close. It takes the heat off of the officials from the Detroit vs Dallas game and then Dallas vs Green Bay game. It's prevented wide scrutiny of the Rams' seemingly imminent move back to Los Angeles. It stopped anyone discussing the Jets' owner being investigated by the NFL for tapping up Revis again in a press conference.

ESPN and the wider American sport journalist community have been despicable in their instantaneous condemnation and judgement over this matter, willing to immediately accuse us of deceitful, underhand methods.

I'm glad to see the science community have been starting to emerge, giving everyone in the NFL a lesson in thermodynamics!

[Sylar]

Did anyone actually bother watching the Pro Bowl?

I can't say the format of it intrigued me enough to tune in but I see Watt and Stafford received a good deal of plaudits for their 'performances'...kinda hard to take a football game seriously when it's played in cotton wool.

[HibsMax]

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In fairness G, I think that's an attitude that permeates in New England already.

We're a team that most people in the league love to hate/kick - a combination of our success over the past decade and the Spygate debacle. That's certainly how I feel anyway but c'est la vie...

This has probably been a welcome distraction from some of the other issues that have arisen since the seasons' close. It takes the heat off of the officials from the Detroit vs Dallas game and then Dallas vs Green Bay game. It's prevented wide scrutiny of the Rams' seemingly imminent move back to Los Angeles. It stopped anyone discussing the Jets' owner being investigated by the NFL for tapping up Revis again in a press conference.

ESPN and the wider American sport journalist community have been despicable in their instantaneous condemnation and judgement over this matter, willing to immediately accuse us of deceitful, underhand methods.

I'm glad to see the science community have been starting to emerge, giving everyone in the NFL a lesson in thermodynamics!

ESPN had an opinion piece last week. The piece basically said we're guilty, that we should be kicked out of the Superbowl and that the AFC Conference should be taken away from us. All of this before anything has even been proven. The article was written by a black woman which I found especially interesting. That's not a racist remark, but if anyone should feel strongly about convicting without evidence, I would think it would be an African American. There were many comments on that story, I chimed in as well, but not a single person who accused us of being cheats could present any evidence that condemns the Patriots. In fact, even though I asked about 20 times not a single person even attempted to defend their case.

I'll be as pissed off as anyone else if we're found guilty but until that happens, the rest can GFT.

[Sergio sledge]

Ball manufacturer calls BS

Pretty sure you think all the refs are against you anyway don't you Sylar? Maybe the refs set this all up... :