Goals lost from corners

[hibhib7]

Two more last night! When are we going to sign central defenders who are good in the air and can attack a dead ball situation. Dunfermline could have been two up on Saturday, from headers, before we scored.

I don't want to be a prophet of doom but, unless we sort this out, we will lose lots of goals against teams (Hearts) playing route one football. We've had this situation for seasons now and I'm sick and tired moaning about it and not seeing anything being done to address this glaring problem.

A clone of the manager would do!

[churchy]

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Two more last night! When are we going to sign central defenders who are good in the air and can attack a dead ball situation. Dunfermline could have been two up on Saturday, from headers, before we scored.

I don't want to be a prophet of doom but, unless we sort this out, we will lose lots of goals against teams (Hearts) playing route one football. We've had this situation for seasons now and I'm sick and tired moaning about it and not seeing anything being done to address this glaring problem.

A clone of the manager would do!

Reminded me of last season at Dunfermline and just how important that Rob Jones was while he was at Easter Road, unfortunately the only problem that has been addressed is right back, the problems will continue for the time being.

[ionahibby]

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Two more last night! When are we going to sign central defenders who are good in the air and can attack a dead ball situation. Dunfermline could have been two up on Saturday, from headers, before we scored.

I don't want to be a prophet of doom but, unless we sort this out, we will lose lots of goals against teams (Hearts) playing route one football. We've had this situation for seasons now and I'm sick and tired moaning about it and not seeing anything being done to address this glaring problem.

A clone of the manager would do!

agree totally but yet yogi doesn't seem to get this for some reason, the gow situation seems to be more important to him

[truehibernian]

With Chris Hogg "marshalling" that defence then get used to it. I am always very harsh on Hogg however for me he is not a good player, nor a good defender, and most certainly not a leader. Hanlon simply will not develop playing alongside a poor player like him. Look at Danny Wilson (similar to Paul in every attribute) and look at his personal development next to Weir. Look at Kenneth next to a very much improved Webster. Of course not every goal conceded is the fault of Hogg, but he does not bark orders, doesn't track quick enough, he is slow to react, and his passing is atrocious (on the occasion that he passes forward). In the middle of that defence we need experience, a hardness, and most of all a reader of the game. Hogg for me has none of these attributes, other than being professional off the pitch and no doubt someone who trains well. Maybe its a wrong side of the bed day today for me, but my heart does sink a little these days when I see Hogg on the teamsheet. Sorry if that offends those that rate/like Hogg........just don't see him as a player. Regarding set pieces and crosses into the box, there is also the problem of our full backs not closing down quick enough. Someone in the heart of the defence, reading the game and nipping their heads (our full backs) for 90 minutes getting them to focus on that and concentrate, might prevent kamikaze chaos in the box whenever it lands in our penalty area.

[down the slope]

How he is club captain is beyond me, he has his supporters on here as does every player but i honestly think he would not get a game for another SPL team, and out manager made him captain-says it all really.

[churchy]

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With Chris Hogg "marshalling" that defence then get used to it. I am always very harsh on Hogg however for me he is not a good player, nor a good defender, and most certainly not a leader. Hanlon simply will not develop playing alongside a poor player like him. Look at Danny Wilson (similar to Paul in every attribute) and look at his personal development next to Weir. Look at Kenneth next to a very much improved Webster. Of course not every goal conceded is the fault of Hogg, but he does not bark orders, doesn't track quick enough, he is slow to react, and his passing is atrocious (on the occasion that he passes forward). In the middle of that defence we need experience, a hardness, and most of all a reader of the game. Hogg for me has none of these attributes, other than being professional off the pitch and no doubt someone who trains well. Maybe its a wrong side of the bed day today for me, but my heart does sink a little these days when I see Hogg on the teamsheet. Sorry if that offends those that rate/like Hogg........just don't see him as a player. Regarding set pieces and crosses into the box, there is also the problem of our full backs not closing down quick enough. Someone in the heart of the defence, reading the game and nipping their heads (our full backs) for 90 minutes getting them to focus on that and concentrate, might prevent kamikaze chaos in the box whenever it lands in our penalty area.

Seems like you`ll have to cut and paste this for the rest of the season and perhaps the season after.

[truehibernian]

Tin hat on time I know, but when I heard Yogi's rhetoric about needing experience in the team and around the club, I would have been looking at two experienced out of contract/released players like Gary Doherty (Norwich) and Christian Dailly (yes.....Dailly) to play in the heart of our defence. I know Charlton have bigger attendances, however being in League 1 we could have competed wage/salary wise I think. Even Dailly, for a season, could have brought on young Paul quicker IMHO. I will dodge the bullets now

[churchy]

[QUOTE=truehibernian;2516913]Tin hat on time I know, but when I heard Yogi's rhetoric about needing experience in the team and around the club, I would have been looking at two experienced out of contract/released players like Gary Doherty (Norwich) and Christian Dailly (yes.....Dailly) to play in the heart of our defence. I know Charlton have bigger attendances, however being in League 1 we could have competed wage/salary wise I think. Even Dailly, for a season, could have brought on young Paul quicker IMHO. I will dodge the bullets now [/QUO

[delbert]

Have to say this whole thread is just spot on. i was directly behind the goals about 10 rows back at Dunfermline and the first corner we faced was a total shambles, Brown glued to his line, static defenders, and a pinball scramble which we luckily cleared. It was however good to see that we sorted it out for the second one, by allowing the Dunfermline player a completely free header which Wotherspoon headed off the line. I can forgive Brown a bit as it was his first start with these guys in front of him, but for all that, he is an experienced goalkeeper, and I would have thought he would have done a bit more in the organization department. As for Hogg, possibly the quiestest and most uninspiring Hibs captain in 20 years, no leadership qualities, constantly gives the ball to the opposition, and is just not up to the job. No doubt he generally gives 100%, no disputing that, but he is no more than a journeyman professional, with very limited abilities, and a dominating experienced centre half, not to mention a midfield general are in my opinion the two most urgent priorities at Easter Road. Alan Gow can wait !!

[monktonharp]

totally agree with all (or almost) posts on this subject. he is a very weak link,in an otherwise fragile defense.IM at left back had a poor run in to the end of last season,being run ragged on several occasions although i'd like him in midfield.PH,young lad and good,but needs a helping hand or mentor,which is not there! Bamba,well who knows? he wants out,HFC want money for him imho so that can go any way, and should not be in the equation. tne new RB,looks like a player judging by pedigree but not fully fit and a wee bit history of injuries and will take a wee bit to settle in. New boy Stephens,well,what can be said? an 18yr old lad straight fi' the ferm,might end up a good 'un. then.............the team and club captain,well sorry folks but i'm very underwhelmed at this stage. never rated him efter big Jonesey left and he has toiled since,which can not be denied.we need a big,strong ,experienced centre half and we need him now,preferably one that can confer/communicate with whichever goalkeeper is decided upon,for the number 1 jersey (which is usual for most profesional football clubs)

[Ed De Gramo]

Wow, the season hasn't started but the Hogg bashing's back

Can we expect the usual Rankin & Nish bashing after the next game

[monktonharp]

naw Gramo,but if there wiz a poll(which i've no idea how to start) i'm sure the majority would be to give someone else the armband for starters. Hoggy is not a player that inspires me,never mind the players around him,and therefor is not a Hibernian captain. all about opinions I suppose,but also there is a certain expected standard,being a Hibby

[truehibernian]

Gramo I have been consistent with my criticism of Hogg since the reign of Collins. He is of course not the only reason we concede goals and he does now and again have a good game, however overall, I think he is a very poor player and an even poorer choice for captain. Hanlon and any young player around him will not improve due to the simple fact he does not read the game well and cannot defend properly IMO. Even when in possession and under no pressure, Chris takes an age to clear his lines, find the correct pass, or drive the team forward. There were occasions last season especially when he literally jogged back into position when the opposition were attacking at pace from the flanks leaving acres of room in the box. The poster was stating that we lose goals from set pieces, which I agree with. A defender who reads the game and sees this problem, barks at his full backs and defensive midfielders to close down the space. He also has to defend himself. And we need to defend higher up the pitch, which calls on your central defender and captain to notice this and push up. How many times in the latter part of the season when we were leading games did we sit on our own 18 yard box ? Yes the other players have to take responsibility, but for me it lands on the shoulders of Hogg to do so given his role in the team. He is ineffectual and poor. It's not "Hogg-bashing" mate, just saying what I see. Others see differently hence opinions and forums.

[basehibby]

I'm not one for Hogg bashing but it's clear to me that he's a pretty limited footballer who often looks quite nervous with the ball at his feet. He has other qualities but vocal leadership of the defence doesn't seem to be one of them. So I agree with the overall slant of this thread in that central defence is an area crying out for a good experienced performer - one good signing in this area could make a massive difference to the whole team IMO.

Also, in retrospect, I can see that Yogi made a mistake retaining Hogg as the skipper for last season - captains don't necessarilly need to be shouters as evidenced by the leadership offered by Pat "the quiet man" Stanton back in the 70s. But Stanton lead by example as he had the ability to drive the team forward with the ball at his feet which is patently not Hoggs strong suit.

Murray would be a natural choice for me - he's a far better footballer than Hogg IMO and also displays plenty of grit and determination and isn't afraid to open his mouth to direct his teammates in his own box. I hope Hughes takes the bull by the horns and addresses this before the start of the new season.

[Cameron1875]

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Wow, the season hasn't started but the Hogg bashing's back

Can we expect the usual Rankin & Nish bashing after the next game

Do you believe those three are good enough to be in the starting lineup each week at a team like hibernian?

[KiddA]

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With Chris Hogg "marshalling" that defence then get used to it. I am always very harsh on Hogg however for me he is not a good player, nor a good defender, and most certainly not a leader. Hanlon simply will not develop playing alongside a poor player like him. Look at Danny Wilson (similar to Paul in every attribute) and look at his personal development next to Weir. Look at Kenneth next to a very much improved Webster. Of course not every goal conceded is the fault of Hogg, but he does not bark orders, doesn't track quick enough, he is slow to react, and his passing is atrocious (on the occasion that he passes forward). In the middle of that defence we need experience, a hardness, and most of all a reader of the game. Hogg for me has none of these attributes, other than being professional off the pitch and no doubt someone who trains well. Maybe its a wrong side of the bed day today for me, but my heart does sink a little these days when I see Hogg on the teamsheet. Sorry if that offends those that rate/like Hogg........just don't see him as a player. Regarding set pieces and crosses into the box, there is also the problem of our full backs not closing down quick enough. Someone in the heart of the defence, reading the game and nipping their heads (our full backs) for 90 minutes getting them to focus on that and concentrate, might prevent kamikaze chaos in the box whenever it lands in our penalty area.

Could not agree more I don't understand why he is going back in for Gow when this problem has still not been addressed yet. Very worrying to be honest that Hogg is still in this team and still captain. If I was Yogi I would be very concerned about this as this could be one of the factors in whether he keeps his job in the future. I really don't know why he keeps persisting with Hogg and its very frustrating

[churchy]

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Wow, the season hasn't started but the Hogg bashing's back

Can we expect the usual Rankin & Nish bashing after the next game

Maybe it is an age thing Gramo, when you`ve watched the likes of Blackley,Stanton,Cropley and Gordon it is painful to observe the likes of Hogg,Rankin and Nish impersonating football players, the truth is all their critics would love to see them perform to a higher standard, even mastering the basics would be a good start, i hope these guys are fringe players next season and that is me being more than charitable.

[delbert]

You can call it Hogg bashing if you like, I tried to balance what I said by stating that I believe Chris Hogg gives us 100% every game and always has, I could not fault him on that, and certainly a couple of seasons ago he had a very consistent run. However, his distribution has always been poor and his decision making at times very suspect, that allied to the fact that his performance level has certainly dropped for his player of the year season. I just believe that for a captain of Hibs, you have to have a bit more to offer than what Chris gives us, and when I see what goes on in our own box when defending set pieces it makes me cringe, we are a rudderless ship in there at times and it needs sorting out, we might laugh at the hype regarding the signing of Kyle for the ****bos, but are you looking forward to our present defence facing him at corners in the first derby?? Thought not.

[churchy]

Last season every high ball into the box looked dangerous, i think Hanlon and Stephens will be the centre back partnership if Bamba goes, whoever is in goals will have to take a lot of responsibility in taking the heat off of these guys.

[churchy]

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Make no mistake. Whoever is in goals isn't going to do that are they? Let's not pretend otherwise. This is a serious problem and I'm totally hacked off that Hughes seems not to see it.

Unfortunately it looks that way, hope we`ve got lots of goals in us.

[ionahibby]

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Maybe it is an age thing Gramo, when you`ve watched the likes of Blackley,Stanton,Cropley and Gordon it is painful Hogg,to observe the likes of Rankin and Nish impersonating football players, the truth is all their critics would love to see them perform to a higher standard, even mastering the basics would be a good start, i hope these guys are fringe players next season and that is me being more than charitable.

Its harsh is it not we are not brazil they are not that bad rankin puts in a good shift most weeks and nish scores goals give them a break

[ekhibee]

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You can call it Hogg bashing if you like, I tried to balance what I said by stating that I believe Chris Hogg gives us 100% every game and always has, I could not fault him on that, and certainly a couple of seasons ago he had a very consistent run. However, his distribution has always been poor and his decision making at times very suspect, that allied to the fact that his performance level has certainly dropped for his player of the year season. I just believe that for a captain of Hibs, you have to have a bit more to offer than what Chris gives us, and when I see what goes on in our own box when defending set pieces it makes me cringe, we are a rudderless ship in there at times and it needs sorting out, we might laugh at the hype regarding the signing of Kyle for the ****bos, but are you looking forward to our present defence facing him at corners in the first derby?? Thought not.

I really don't think you need to qualify all you originally said, because I agree with all of it, and this post as well. To be fair, I've never really understood some of the hype surrounding Hogg, to me he's always been an average player, not a bad one, but certainly no more than average. To me he's never been a commanding figure either in terms of defending, or the team as a whole. He seems to be quite a nice bloke off the pitch, but that really doesn't have much to do with it as far as performances are concerned. As another poster mentioned, the prospect of the likes of Kyle up against the likes of Hogg is quite daunting, and I regard Kyle as an average player as well, which maybe reflects what I think of the managers decision not to change things at the back, bring in another centre half instead of Gow for example. And as has also been mentioned, IMO it places a lot more pressure on young Paul Hanlon, who could be a really good player in the future for us, but doesn't have a role model to guide him in the right direction at the moment. To me Thicot is a better centre half than Hogg, but others might have a different opinion.

[marinello59]

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Its harsh is it not we are not brazil they are not that bad rankin puts in a good shift most weeks and nish scores goals give them a break

They ain't world beaters but as SPL players go they are OK.

[marinello59]

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OK and the realiization that our manager is obviously a dumbo isn't good enough.This is the first time in 29yrs I haven't renewed my season ticket.

A dumbo? Dear God, does a football manager have to have the intellect of Stephen Hawking now? It's certainly not required of the fans....otherwise I and many others would be barred.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

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OK and the realiization that our manager is obviously a dumbo isn't good enough.This is the first time in 29yrs I haven't renewed my season ticket.

Have you anything positive to say? You don't like the manager, you're frightened of Kevin Kyle and your not renewing your season ticket, dreary me!

[Speedway]

Hogg, Nish and Rankin bashing is 'back' because we all know that they are not good enough and we are fearful that their continued regular inclusion in the starting XI will be detrimental to our fortunes.

I think a bigger problem though will be how much fight we have in the side, commonly referred to as 'dig'.

When the chips are down, who will fight for us?

Stack - yes
Hart - think so
Hogg - no
Hanlon - no
Murray - yes
De Graaf - think so
McBride - yes
Miller - no
Rankin - no
Deek - no
Stokes - no
Nish - no
Bamba - no
Stephens - don't know
Galbriath - no
Zoumer - no


So three fighters, with a possible two further players capable of dig in a kick and rush league. That's my main concern about the season ahead, too many girls in the side.

[marinello59]

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Two more yesterday...Crosses/corners....Same kind of thing.I'm not negative,just realistic.This situation could really muck things up for us this season!

So who do you think was to blame for these two goals? Did it look like a case of well worked crosses/corner or were we a shambles?

[churchy]

Last season we got away with murder with crosses into the box, it was more to do with the mediocre opposition and their inability to capitalize on the free scoring opportunities given to them than decent defending, it appears the situation could be even worse in the coming season, especially with the probably imminent loss of Bamba.

[sesoim]

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A dumbo? Dear God, does a football manager have to have the intellect of Stephen Hawking now? It's certainly not required of the fans....otherwise I and many others would be barred.

To be honest I think a football manager does have to be intelligent nowadays. In the old days a big personality that shouts a lot seemed to be the criteria. Nowadays if you can't put a team together and spot the flaws you'll get found out, kind of like what Hughes did for the last three months of last season.

If Petrie gives him enough money, maybe Hughes will eventually sign a couple of good defenders and a target man like what we need, but I can't help feeling that a better manager would sign the right players straight away (and not for example sign two goalies and a left winger in January when we needed a commanding CB and RB then).

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

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Hogg, Nish and Rankin bashing is 'back' because we all know that they are not good enough and we are fearful that their continued regular inclusion in the starting XI will be detrimental to our fortunes.

I think a bigger problem though will be how much fight we have in the side, commonly referred to as 'dig'.

When the chips are down, who will fight for us?

Stack - yes
Hart - think so
Hogg - no Hogg isn't afraid to put his body on the line when required
Hanlon - no Young lad, he'll come good
Murray - yes
De Graaf - think so
McBride - yes
Miller - no
Rankin - no I think Ranks has a professional pride and shows a good bit of dig for a wee guy when required
Deek - no
Stokes - no
Nish - no
Bamba - no not now anyway....
Stephens - don't know
Galbriath - no
Zoumer - no


So three fighters, with a possible two further players capable of dig in a kick and rush league. That's my main concern about the season ahead, too many girls in the side.

Disagree with a few of your choices. Do agree we need more dig though, even if it is personnel who wouldn't play every game, older pro/young laddie.