In 47 Years I have been to several Derbies...

**Sammy7nil** · 21-03-2010 11:37 AM

Watched many different Hibs teams under many different Managers.
I can count on one Hand the Number of times Hibs have out battled Hearts in a Derby. We had a great spell under McLesh that aside our record is dire. When we win we play well and tend to hold on despite ourselves.

I went through the 80's and 90's when we were often the better team outplaying Hearts and if we were very lucky we would get a draw.

It appears to me after all this time the fact is if you want to win derbies consistently you first have to win battles.

Hibs over a very very long period of time have confirmed we are not capable of winning battles on the pitch regardless of who plays. The players we have a the moment will always flatter to deceive.

Yes we will (only very occasionally this seaon) have a games when we are a joy to watch, but we will never be winners consistently.

I thought Yogi would make us street wise and difficult to beat, in fact he has done the exact oppisite.

I love Deeks Fantastic player, Zemmama a joy to watch, Miller can look good and Stokes obviously can finish
BUT there is a reason these guys play for Hibs they cant Hack it at a higher level.

Not really much point to this thread other than to say YET AGAIN Hibs are easily out battled and brushed aside by an average hard working Hearts team. How can so many different Hibs Managers and players allow this to happen all to often.

Rant over just very deflated about another shambolic Derby display.

If fit the team against Ross C must be

.................Smith
McCormack Hanlon Hogg Murray
.................Bamba
...Zemmama McBribe Miller
.......... Riordan Nish

Lets win the battle GGTH

**~~Hibercelona~~** · 21-03-2010 11:42 AM

I think every fan can see that we are easily out battled.

Unfortunately... nobody within the club ever sees this.

Same old hibees eh.

**truehibernian** · 21-03-2010 11:49 AM

Some players played their way out of Hibernian yesterday IMO. Like the look of that team, especially getting young Darren in the defence, and having height and athleticism in midfield with Bamba. But don't let Zemmama anywhere near that side. This game does not need little individual renegades who are more concerned about their wee hamstrings. This replay will be a battle. I would like to see young Kurtis given a run too. Keen, enthusiastic, and willing to run channels. DW needs a rest as he looks low on confidence. In fact, after yesterday, if Yogi picked 11 Easter Road ball boys I don't think I would bat an eyelid. At least I would know that I would see effort

johnbc70 · 21-03-2010 12:00 PM

What really frustrates me is that I have been to pretty much all the derbys since the late 80's and I can honestly say I have only seen Hibs win comfortably on 2 or 3 occasions. Yet I have seen Hearts win comfortably on many, many more.

Out of interest when was the last time we were a couple of goals clear of them and looking comfortable, would it have been the 6-2 game over 10 years ago?

**seanraff07** · 21-03-2010 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by johnbc70

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What really frustrates me is that I have been to pretty much all the derbys since the late 80's and I can honestly say I have only seen Hibs win comfortably on 2 or 3 occasions. Yet I have seen Hearts win comfortably on many, many more.

Out of interest when was the last time we were a couple of goals clear of them and looking comfortable, would it have been the 6-2 game over 10 years ago?

You could say 2-0 at ER when we ended their unbeaten run back in 2005, although maybe i wouldn't class that as being comfortable as we didn't score our first goal till the 76th minute.

johnbc70 · 21-03-2010 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by seanraff07

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You could say 2-0 at ER when we ended their unbeaten run back in 2005, although maybe i wouldn't class that as being comfortable as we didn't score our first goal till the 76th minute.

Yes I thought of game, but I was thinking 2 or 3 goals up with say 30 mins left on the clock. We were only 2 up with 7 minues left or something.

**seanraff07** · 21-03-2010 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by johnbc70

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Yes I thought of game, but I was thinking 2 or 3 goals up with say 30 mins left on the clock. We were only 2 up with 7 minues left or something.

Yep, only ones i can think of since i was 5 are 3-0 at Tynie and 6-2.

**Expecting Rain** · 21-03-2010 12:15 PM

The derby is a strange kind of fixture, yesterday reminded me of two games where we looked like getting a hammering, the 2-2 draws with McBride and Andy Walker both securing a point when it looked like all was lost.
There have been others which don`t really make sense winning 7-0 then losing the next trip 1-4 and dominating Hearts on two occasions with a 1-0 victory in the 81% game and a measley 6-2 going on 11-2 if it wasn`t for their keeper in the days of Latapy and co.
I agree with the original poster, our record overall in the past 4 decades at Tynecastle regardless of the personel ain`t very good and who knows what the .net board would have been like in the days before political correctness.

**Sammy7nil** · 21-03-2010 12:31 PM

4 - 4 game at Tynie we got the 4th in Injury time FFS

O'Connor when he scored in the 89th min with ten men we had to clear two of the line to win FFS

Colquhoun scored two from 30yds against Rough (who never won a derby) we pumelled them for 90 mins got a 2 - 2

Robertson "It is not over until the Fat Striker scores" at least 4 winners or equalisers in the last 5 mins.

And countless 2 - 3 plus losses

I would say in the last 25 years I can only look back on about six wins at Tynie considering we have played there about 50 times (including cups) and "form goes out of the window" it is very very poor.

Still one of the best jump arounds EVER is when GEEBSIE smashed in the winner to break the derby jinx. The bruise on my leg the next day was unbelievable never felt a thing at the time.

Suppose thats what makes being a Hibbie great when the wins do come they are GREAT

**BEEJ** · 21-03-2010 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by johnbc70

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Out of interest when was the last time we were a couple of goals clear of them and looking comfortable, would it have been the 6-2 game over 10 years ago?

Long time ago.

Difference is Hibs are good at giving away cheap goals. They don't usually, and seldom against us.

**~~Iggy Pope~~** · 21-03-2010 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by simply the best

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Watched many different Hibs teams under many different Managers.
I can count on one Hand the Number of times Hibs have out battled Hearts in a Derby. We had a great spell under McLesh that aside our record is dire. When we win we play well and tend to hold on despite ourselves.

I went through the 80's and 90's when we were often the better team outplaying Hearts and if we were very lucky we would get a draw.

It appears to me after all this time the fact is if you want to win derbies consistently you first have to win battles.

Hibs over a very very long period of time have confirmed we are not capable of winning battles on the pitch regardless of who plays. The players we have a the moment will always flatter to deceive.

Yes we will (only very occasionally this seaon) have a games when we are a joy to watch, but we will never be winners consistently.

I thought Yogi would make us street wise and difficult to beat, in fact he has done the exact oppisite.

I love Deeks Fantastic player, Zemmama a joy to watch, Miller can look good and Stokes obviously can finish
BUT there is a reason these guys play for Hibs they cant Hack it at a higher level.

Not really much point to this thread other than to say YET AGAIN Hibs are easily out battled and brushed aside by an average hard working Hearts team. How can so many different Hibs Managers and players allow this to happen all to often.

Rant over just very deflated about another shambolic Derby display.

If fit the team against Ross C must be

.................Smith
McCormack Hanlon Hogg Murray
.................Bamba
...Zemmama McBribe Miller
.......... Riordan Nish

Lets win the battle GGTH

7-0. 6-2. 3-0 Millenium Derby. 10 man GoC winner. LC Quarter final.....oops I've run out of fingers on that hand...

My erse.

***AgentDaleCooper*** · 21-03-2010 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling

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7-0. 6-2. 3-0 Millenium Derby. 10 man GoC winner. LC Quarter final.....oops I've run out of fingers on that hand...

My erse.

how about two hands?

i think his point is that they have severely dominated us on probably the majority of occasions, while times that we really pummel them are very few and far between. it's a bit depressing.

there's something spineless about hibs that needs sorting out. much of the years i've been a supporter, there's been a sense of "just wait 'till next season, we're laying the foundations, THEN we'll be good". of course i'm very, very glad that that nutter romanov or someone like him doesn't own us, but sometimes i have to say it would be a lot more exciting if this club would live in the moment and just go "**** it, lets GO FOR IT", create that kind of seige mentality that they had when romanov first came, put together a great team and see what happens. ok, it might put the bank balance at risk, but if anyone can afford to do it now it's us. i'm not saying yogi should go, but if he can't prove he's up to it with the facilities he has at his fingertips, we need to splash out a wee bit on a top class manager, get some MORE top class players (i think our squad is pretty damn good at the moment TBH), and throw caution to the wind.

it would be a lot more interesting to be a hibby.

**~~Iggy Pope~~** · 21-03-2010 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

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how about two hands?

i think his point is that they have severely dominated us on probably the majority of occasions, while times that we really pummel them are very few and far between. it's a bit depressing.

there's something spineless about hibs that needs sorting out. much of the years i've been a supporter, there's been a sense of "just wait 'till next season, we're laying the foundations, THEN we'll be good". of course i'm very, very glad that that nutter romanov or someone like him doesn't own us, but sometimes i have to say it would be a lot more exciting if this club would live in the moment and just go "**** it, lets GO FOR IT", create that kind of seige mentality that they had when romanov first came, put together a great team and see what happens. ok, it might put the bank balance at risk, but if anyone can afford to do it now it's us. i'm not saying yogi should go, but if he can't prove he's up to it with the facilities he has at his fingertips, we need to splash out a wee bit on a top class manager, get some MORE top class players (i think our squad is pretty damn good at the moment TBH), and throw caution to the wind.

it would be a lot more interesting to be a hibby.

I don't have time but if you think Hibs have only performed in that amount of derbies in 47 years then you are not looking closely enough.
I was 16 years old before I witnessed them beating us..........

PS
We 'went for it' in the McLeish years and it nearly put us under.

***Eaststand*** · 21-03-2010 04:49 PM

[QUOTE=AgentDaleCooper;2396629]how about two hands?

i think his point is that they have severely dominated us on probably the majority of occasions, while times that we really pummel them are very few and far between. it's a bit depressing.

there's something spineless about hibs that needs sorting out. much of the years i've been a supporter, there's been a sense of "just wait 'till next season, we're laying the foundations, THEN we'll be good". of course i'm very, very glad that that nutter romanov or someone like him doesn't own us, but sometimes i have to say it would be a lot more exciting if this club would live in the moment and just go "**** it, lets GO FOR IT", create that kind of seige mentality that they had when romanov first came, put together a great team and see what happens. ok, it might put the bank balance at risk, but if anyone can afford to do it now it's us. i'm not saying yogi should go, but if he can't prove he's up to it with the facilities he has at his fingertips, we need to splash out a wee bit on a top class manager, get some MORE top class players (i think our squad is pretty damn good at the moment TBH), and throw caution to the wind.

Reply reads

Aye we're all *** hacked off at the major drop in form from earlier on in the season, but we've still made some progress from last season.... we're a couple of points from 3rd in the league, and thats simply cos we won a lot of games earlier this season, and played some decent fitba too. Yogi got a lot out of the squad then, and he needs to keep trying to get the most out of them, and he needs to work harder at that....but there are one or two who cant seem to keep that pace up and they're now toiling.. Liam Miller and Zoomer looked top drawer, but for whatever reason, they just aint doing it anymore. Yogi inherited some very ordinary players, and he will get rid of them when another club comes in for them, OR when their contracts run out...that's the only way he can do it. Then he'll have freed up wages to let him bring in the correct standard of player with the skils and fighting spirit that we all expect to wear the jersey. I want us to win EVERY game we play, and I get hacked off when we play crap and/or get beat, BUT the nerves are jangling with some of our 'weaker' players, and they're the ones who will surely be clearing their lockers out in the Summer. Time is what Yogi needs, and if he gets that, I reckon we'll get a team that gives us the fight and displays that we all want and expect

GGTTH

**Emerald** · 21-03-2010 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by simply the best

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Watched many different Hibs teams under many different Managers.
I can count on one Hand the Number of times Hibs have out battled Hearts in a Derby. We had a great spell under McLesh that aside our record is dire. When we win we play well and tend to hold on despite ourselves.

I went through the 80's and 90's when we were often the better team outplaying Hearts and if we were very lucky we would get a draw.

It appears to me after all this time the fact is if you want to win derbies consistently you first have to win battles.

Hibs over a very very long period of time have confirmed we are not capable of winning battles on the pitch regardless of who plays. The players we have a the moment will always flatter to deceive.

Yes we will (only very occasionally this seaon) have a games when we are a joy to watch, but we will never be winners consistently.

I thought Yogi would make us street wise and difficult to beat, in fact he has done the exact oppisite.

I love Deeks Fantastic player, Zemmama a joy to watch, Miller can look good and Stokes obviously can finish
BUT there is a reason these guys play for Hibs they cant Hack it at a higher level.

Not really much point to this thread other than to say YET AGAIN Hibs are easily out battled and brushed aside by an average hard working Hearts team. How can so many different Hibs Managers and players allow this to happen all to often.

Rant over just very deflated about another shambolic Derby display.

If fit the team against Ross C must be

.................Smith
McCormack Hanlon Hogg Murray
.................Bamba
...Zemmama McBribe Miller
.......... Riordan Nish

Lets win the battle GGTH

That is exactly what I have was thinking too. They almost always manage to bully us, no matter how bad their form is. We have, on the odd occasion managed to out battle them but its not very often. The trouble is, we all want Hibs to play pretty passing football but after half the season, other teams have sussed us out, learned how to stop us and get right in our faces. This stops us being able to play the passing game and there is no plan B. You have to get stuck in and do the ugly physical stuff first in a derby before you can start the tippy tappy football.

**Sammy7nil** · 21-03-2010 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling

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7-0. 6-2. 3-0 Millenium Derby. 10 man GoC winner. LC Quarter final.....oops I've run out of fingers on that hand...

My erse.

If you believe that fair enough

However 7 - 0, 6 - 2, 3 - 0 we totally outplayed them (well after Hearts had 3 great chances in the 7 - 0 game at 0 - 0) we never out battled them.
The point I am trying to make is when we a clearly the worst team we very rarely out battle them.
The Gary O,Connor game we were still the better team with 10 men great performance

Two examples may be Brian Kerr 1 - 0 at Tynie and deeks 1- 0 at Tynie both we held on grimly.

Yes there are many good Derbies more than 5 However I went to all 23 when we failed to win and average Hearts teams have beaten us many times when they should not have.

As I say just deflated after another debacle

**vahibbie** · 21-03-2010 06:49 PM

For the most part it seems we have to play exceptionally well to beat them.
When we have an average team or performance we generally lose. All things being equal talent wise between the teams the only difference is that magical "will to win quality/fight/determination" call it what you will.

The real puzzle is why they have had for so long and we haven't

**noseyhibby** · 21-03-2010 07:07 PM

The jambos will be absolutely loving this thread as it confirms everything that they truly feel about their so-called superiority, and Hibs inferiority.
I see the bigger historical picture and comfort myself from knowing that despite their derby dominance, they have failed to win anything for 95% of their history. This poor record is fractionally better than our own -failing to win anything for 96.9% of our history. For two big city teams, it's a pathetic embarrassing record. All that the jambos have to comfort themselves when we have a better season is their derby record. The fixture is all that matters to them. It means everything to them to beat us. It means less to Hibs and I really do believe the mental side of things gives them that edge, even when we dominate games, we rarely put them to the sword. We have to accept that Hibs ideals are a bit airy fairy, and we are too often a soft touch because of our approach. Give Hibs that winning, steely mentality (ie: under Turnbull and McLeish)and the jambos crumble and struggle to beat us. Belief, resolve and 100% commitment is what usually separates the teams on the day, irrespective of the quality within either team.

**vahibbie** · 21-03-2010 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by noseyhibby

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The jambos will be absolutely loving this thread as it confirms everything that they truly feel about their so-called superiority, and Hibs inferiority.
I see the bigger historical picture and comfort myself from knowing that despite their derby dominance, they have failed to win anything for 95% of their history. This poor record is fractionally better than our own -failing to win anything for 96.9% of our history. For two big city teams, it's a pathetic embarrassing record. All that the jambos have to comfort themselves when we have a better season is their derby record. The fixture is all that matters to them. It means everything to them to beat us. It means less to Hibs and I really do believe the mental side of things gives them that edge, even when we dominate games, we rarely put them to the sword. We have to accept that Hibs ideals are a bit airy fairy, and we are too often a soft touch because of our approach. Give Hibs that winning, steely mentality (ie: under Turnbull and McLeish)and the jambos crumble and struggle to beat us. Belief, resolve and 100% commitment is what usually separates the teams on the day, irrespective of the quality within either team.

Nonsense.
You mean we had it, then lost, then got it again, then lost it again.
Hibs ideals, sounds a bit to much like "the Celtic way". I'll give you we are often a soft touch, we shouldn't be. But I don't think it means any more or less to Hibs or Hearts who wins the Derbies.
What do we have to comfort ourselves when Hearts have a better season. That's right SFA, cos they will probably have stuffed us in the Derbies as well.
Oh, we can always fall back on Vlad, their finances and their *****y stand and console ourselves with that.

***AgentDaleCooper*** · 21-03-2010 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by vahibbie

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For the most part it seems we have to play exceptionally well to beat them.
When we have an average team or performance we generally lose. All things being equal talent wise between the teams the only difference is that magical "will to win quality/fight/determination" call it what you will.

The real puzzle is why they have had for so long and we haven't

arrogance? a genuine belief that they are the third force?

although these may be irritating qualities in a football team, it certainly doesn't do any harm to possess them.

when they're loosing a derby, they often come back - we rarely do. i think it's partly because when they're loosing the think "**** this, we're no loosing this" and bust a gut, whereas we just go "aw, not again", and have a moan and grumble about it.

***AgentDaleCooper*** · 21-03-2010 10:02 PM

just thought, it could be (but not necessarily, just putting it out there) partly to do with our two different cultures of football - busting a gut is what they take pride in, as opposed to our 'flair football' ideal...could be wrong...

**noseyhibby** · 21-03-2010 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

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just thought, it could be (but not necessarily, just putting it out there) partly to do with our two different cultures of football - busting a gut is what they take pride in, as opposed to our 'flair football' ideal...could be wrong...

I agree. This echoes my belief in the historical approaches of both clubs. Hibs airy-fairy Brazilian, must-play-football-at-all-costs approach is in stark contrast to that of the nitty-gritty-dirty win-at-all-costs attitude of Hearts. This might account for the majority of derby victories going to the team whose brand of football will invariably lead to victory more often than not. For example: Mowbrays Hibs, lets face it, were pretty on the eye, but when it came down to a fight on muddy pitches in the middle of January (ie Inverness) his sides lacked big time and inevitably lost, and not forgetting those 4-0 hammerings by the more physical and determined Jambo sides during his reign.

**Mixu62** · 21-03-2010 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

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just thought, it could be (but not necessarily, just putting it out there) partly to do with our two different cultures of football - busting a gut is what they take pride in, as opposed to our 'flair football' ideal...could be wrong...

Hmm, up to a point, but lets not forget that much of our woeful record in the 80's was when Alex Miller was in charge. With the exception of the team with Wright, Jackson, O'Neill and McAllister, you could never accuse him of playing flair football.