Hibs open to all in 1889

[WeeWendy]

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One of the players mentioned is James Brogan who signed for Hibs from Beith in 1883 and after scoring a fair amount of goals (including at least 6 goals in a 10-0 Scottish Cup win over Edina) then signed for Hearts at the end of the 1883-1884 season. He signed for Bolton after Hearts toured Lancashire later that year. I don't have any data that indicates he was a Protestant, although his baptismal records may be available somewhere.

I haven't found any reference to the player Higgins yet, but the records from that era are somewhat sparse

James Brogan was born in 1864 in Beith, his birth is recorded in the old parish records (so not the Catholic records) and his parents were married in Barmill (should be Barrmill?) parish of Beith, "according to the forms of the Free Church of Scotland", in 1856.

Brogan's mother was Mary Dickie, and the minister of the Free Church was Matthew Dickie - not sure if they were related but I'm sad enough that I'd find out if I had more credits with scotlandspeople....

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

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There's a book that I used for my higher History class a few years ago that mentions Hibs briefly during a timeline of something (I can't remember what) and it basically says that Hibs were a sectarian club until a certain year (I can't remember the year either) when we finally ended the policy of only allowing Roman Catholics to play for us.

Ever since I read that book, I have been under the impression that Hibs were a sectarian club during our early years and I've no doubt that anyone else who has read that same book will think the same.

So if it's a load of rubbish, Hibs should be asking the people who publish the books to change that bit.

Maybe someone who does higher History just now will know the book I mean.

migration and empire by John Kerr maybe?

[Sir David Gray]

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migration and empire by John Kerr maybe?

Not sure. My post was from 8 and a half years ago so I can barely remember writing this post never mind reading the book from a few years before it!

[SideBurns]

I suppose an easy distinction (if required) to make between Hibs of 1875 & The Huns pre-Mo Johnston was that our club was set up for the advancement of the young, poor Catholic men of the Cowgate.
Rangers, on the other hand, would happily sign people of any religion - unless you were Roman Catholic. It was a distinctly bigoted policy against one creed.

[Dashing Bob S]

Always been a non sectarian club. I’m sure that I can speak for most Hibs fans when I say that any gun running I did for the IRA was purely to finance my heroin habit. Politics were rarely, if ever, discussed.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It all depends on your definition of sectarian. Hibs were formed by Catholics to improve the lot of the Catholic community, you had to be a practising Catholic to be a member .... that's not the same as saying you cant join because you are a protestant, a subtle but important difference.

Two modern examples would be:

The black policeman's association, where by definition you have to be black to join ... yet there's no suggestion they are racist.

The British Legion .... They will accept anybody these days, just so long as you sign a bit of paper saying you owe allegiance to the queen and her crew. Yet there's no suggestion they are discriminating against republicans

The history is very interesting, but what really matters is the here and now and the fact is Hibs haven't had any policy about who plays for the club for well over 100 years .... these days the attitudes of our fan base tend to be driven by the social and political views of the areas its largely drawn from rather than any religious influence, north and east Edinburgh certainly leans slightly more to the left and towards Scottish independence than other parts of the city, so our support reflects that ... but even then not in a particularly 'in yer face' sort of way, and certainly not to the extent that the fans have any notion to use the club as a vehicle for political activism .... unlike some other clubs, who quite frankly should adopt the motto 'look at me' in their badge

[HibeeHibernian4]

I think Nae Nookie sums it up nicely, we don't need to rub our political leanings in other people's faces, but I do view Hibs as a left leaning club as a whole. Obviously, that's not to say there aren't people who think differently in our support, and they're no less of a Hibs fan than myself for their politics. I also like that we can respect and recognise our Irish roots without feeling the need to cynically market and brand our entire club on our links to the old country.

[Lancs Harp]

We even have english fans now.

Interesting thread fellas

[Mibbes Aye]

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You may well be right, Bill Murray's " The Old Firm-Sectarianism , Sport and Society" would give a good outline of how this developed. I recall that there was a link to shipyards (Harland and Wolf?) and the immigrant workers from Belfast that may have pushed them further towards a bigotted stance over religion and players. I remember that it was a bit earlier than WW1, the latter years of the 19th, very early 29th century. I don't believe that their motivation was entirely based on the strength of their religious convictions, rather more the business advantage gained from the opposing of the "Irish" teams.

I think you've got this spot on. It's easy to stoke hate and differentiation, but the key question is who benefits?

If you have power or money, and that is threatened because of a change in the labour market or in business, then the pragmatic thing to do is paint somebody as the "other" and the "threat". There are lots of groups we can make as hate targets' should we choose, just depends on who you choose and what the buy-in from the populace is.

The other side is my family were Irish immigrants in the mid-nineteenth century. Like most immigrants they were portrayed by some as a threat. And in fairness, my great-great-relatives probably took rubbish jobs that undercut folk who were born and bred in Edinburgh.

That's what they did to survive. That's what most immigrants do. It's all they can do.

We shouldn't be drawn into conversations that look backwards (while respecting our history). I don't think Canon Hannan would have any issue with where we are trying to go now as a club.

The work of the Hibernian Community Foundation is massive, and under-reported and under-praised. The work around men's health, emotional,physical and mental, looks very successful. It's been a neglected area but one that needs attention.

I'm proud of my club, just as a fan and supporter, but I'm prouder still that we have an ethos that is genuinely about supporting our communities. Our club might have started as a thing to stop young Irish Catholic labourers getting drunk and causing bother in the centre of Edinburgh but it has evolved into something so much more.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Could anyone get the link to image shack to work?
Can find any references to either of the publications...

[Iggy Pope]

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I think you've got this spot on. It's easy to stoke hate and differentiation, but the key question is who benefits?

If you have power or money, and that is threatened because of a change in the labour market or in business, then the pragmatic thing to do is paint somebody as the "other" and the "threat". There are lots of groups we can make as hate targets' should we choose, just depends on who you choose and what the buy-in from the populace is.

The other side is my family were Irish immigrants in the mid-nineteenth century. Like most immigrants they were portrayed by some as a threat. And in fairness, my great-great-relatives probably took rubbish jobs that undercut folk who were born and bred in Edinburgh.

That's what they did to survive. That's what most immigrants do. It's all they can do.

We shouldn't be drawn into conversations that look backwards (while respecting our history). I don't think Canon Hannan would have any issue with where we are trying to go now as a club.

The work of the Hibernian Community Foundation is massive, and under-reported and under-praised. The work around men's health, emotional,physical and mental, looks very successful. It's been a neglected area but one that needs attention.

I'm proud of my club, just as a fan and supporter, but I'm prouder still that we have an ethos that is genuinely about supporting our communities. Our club might have started as a thing to stop young Irish Catholic labourers getting drunk and causing bother in the centre of Edinburgh but it has evolved into something so much more.

Absolutely.
On the back of my thread earlier this month ref the latter Diaspora I've done a bit of digging into my forefathers and one or two of the occupation descriptions on birth certificates defy belief in the modern age.

[Mikers110]

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Absolutely.
On the back of my thread earlier this month ref the latter Diaspora I've done a bit of digging into my forefathers and one or two of the occupation descriptions on birth certificates defy belief in the modern age.

My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

[Iggy Pope]

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My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

Quite so my friend.

[Glory Lurker]

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We shouldn't be drawn into conversations that look backwards (while respecting our history). I don't think Canon Hannan would have any issue with where we are trying to go now as a club.

The work of the Hibernian Community Foundation is massive, and under-reported and under-praised. The work around men's health, emotional,physical and mental, looks very successful. It's been a neglected area but one that needs attention.

I'm proud of my club, just as a fan and supporter, but I'm prouder still that we have an ethos that is genuinely about supporting our communities. Our club might have started as a thing to stop young Irish Catholic labourers getting drunk and causing bother in the centre of Edinburgh but it has evolved into something so much more.

Love this.

[JimBHibees]

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My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

Sorry to hear your news. RIP your mum.

[BullsCloseHibs]

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Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg

And the Rangers were still willfully a practising sectarian club up and until recently (some might still say they are). There is no comparison.

[lapsedhibee]

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And the Rangers were still willfully a practising sectarian club up and until recently (some might still say they are). There is no comparison.

Sectarian singing yes but not sectarian signing - shirley that stopped quite a while ago?

[Pagan Hibernia]

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according to the book by alan lugton[hibernian the early years]
it was not till 1891[after some smeltic directors shafted us] also says we stopped playing between 89/91
and that we were the first non sectarian club in scotland when we started up again in 1891

does this mean, like the six year old Rangers, our history started in 1891 and not 1875?

[Eyrie]

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does this mean, like the six year old Rangers, our history started in 1891 and not 1875?

We stopped playing matches for a short period before resuming.

Huns RIP were liquidated and its assets were sold to a new club called Sevco.

[Mikers110]

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Sorry to hear your news. RIP your mum.

Thanks.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

Yes mate. Terrible time losing any parent, my thoughts go out to you

[andybev1]

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Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg

I opened an account to view this but there is nothing there?