A new Scottish League Format

[MacBean]

All this chat of The ugly sisters running away to Engerland or the need for a Scottish football shake up got me thinking of the various possibilities that we could have.

I looked around the top nations in Europe and their league formats. Most of them have 20 teams in the top division with 3 being relegated and 3 coming up from the division below. There is also a pyramid system in place in a lot of leagues, like Spain and of course England that work incredibly well.

Why not up here in Scotland!

we have far too many teams in the lower leagues to be competing across three divisions and for only one team to go down from the top division leaves little for those in the lower leagues to aspire to as one spot is a massive challenge!

Why not this kind of format!? All the teams are placed as they currently are in thier league standings (expect the junior teams).

Scottish Premier League
Rangers
Celtic
Hibernian
Dundee Utd
Motherwell
Aberdeen
St Mirren
Hearts
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Hamilton
Falkirk
Ross County
Dundee
Partick Thistle
Raith Rovers
Queen of the South
Inverness Caley Thistle
Dunfermline
Greenock Morton

Bottom three relegated. top three from League one promoted.

Scottish League One
Ayr
Airdrie United
Stirling
Brechin
Cowdenbeath
Alloa
Peterhead
East Fife
Dumbarton
Arbroath
Stenhousemuir
Clyde
East Stirling
Albion
Livingston
Berwick
Forfar
Annan Athletic
Queens Park
Stranraer
Elgin
Montrose

Bottom four relegated, two from two Junior divisions replace them

Scottish Non-League split into two Leagues of 16-20 (north & south / East & West)
Including the likes of:
Spartans
Tynecastle
Whitehill Welfare
Vale of Leithen
Preston Athletic
Lothian Thistle
Dalbeattie Star
Threave Rovers
Buckie Thistle
Brora Rangers
Cove Rangers
Deveronvale
Forres Mechanics
Inverurie Locos
Civil Service
Edinburgh City
Lewis United
Irvine Meadow
Pollock
Banks O'Dee

I know this is a bit farfetched and perhaps a bit too much thought has gone into this, but i would LOVE to see a serious shake up in Scotland and something like this would do the trick!

What are your thoughst, or do i deserve to be shot down!?

discuss...

[basehibby]

You definately don't deserve to be shot down in flames as Scottish Fitba desperately needs a big shake up from top to bottom - one bugbear I would have though - what are the OF doing in there???

They've stated countless times that they don't want to be part of the Scottish party - so we should start planning for life without them and (IMO) should even be pro-active about it by telling them to GTF asap

[Spudster]

Good in theory but I think the top league would be flawed. Imagine trying to attract players to the SPL with these stadiums:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Park,_Dingwall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmerston_Park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappielow

[MacBean]

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Good in theory but I think the top league would be flawed. Imagine trying to attract players to the SPL with these stadiums:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Park,_Dingwall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmerston_Park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappielow

I see your point, but look at the stadiums Dndee & Partick have and even Falkirk prior the new stadium, they have been in and out of the top Scottish league and the Old firm and even we had no issue signing good players competing against them.

[Cameron1875]

Scottish Premier League 18 teams
Hibernian
Rangers
Celtic
Dundee Utd
Motherwell
Aberdeen
St Mirren
Hearts
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Hamilton
Falkirk
Dundee
Partick Thistle
Inverness Caley Thistle
Dunfermline
Queen of the South
Raith Rovers

Scottish League One 12 teams
Ross County
Greenock Morton
Ayr
Airdrie United
Stirling
Brechin
Clyde
Livingston
Cowdenbeath
Alloa
Dumbarton
Arbroath

Scottish League Two 12 teams
East Fife
Stenhousemuir
East Stirling
Albion
Berwick
Forfar
Annan Athletic
Queens Park
Elgin
Peterhead
Stranraer
Montrose

Scottish Non-League split into two Leagues of 16-20 (north & south / East & West)
Including the likes of:
Spartans
Tynecastle
Whitehill Welfare
Vale of Leithen
Preston Athletic
Lothian Thistle
Dalbeattie Star
Threave Rovers
Buckie Thistle
Brora Rangers
Cove Rangers
Deveronvale
Forres Mechanics
Inverurie Locos
Civil Service
Edinburgh City
Lewis United
Irvine Meadow
Pollock
Banks O'Dee

I agree with what you are saying about a shake up 100%. I would have a top division of 18 teams with hibs for example playing other 17 teams twice to make 34 games. This would allow for a winter shutdown and less games being crammed in over a short space of time.

Division 1 and 2 should be 12 team leagues with 2 up and 2 down. The reason for this is that i feel just having SPL then league 1 is not enough. 3 leagues is better imo.

This means two teams from juniors replace 2 teams relegated from division 2

[MacBean]

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I agree with what you are saying about a shake up 100%. I would have a top division of 18 teams with hibs for example playing other 17 teams twice to make 34 games. This would allow for a winter shutdown and less games being crammed in over a short space of time.

Division 1 and 2 should be 12 team leagues with 2 up and 2 down. The reason for this is that i feel just having SPL then league 1 is not enough. 3 leagues is better imo.

This means two teams from juniors replace 2 teams relegated from division 2

Again something like that would work!
There is absolutely no way that our league should have four divisions of professional teams it just doesnt work what so ever! Its pretty obvious for most to see!

[euro Hibby]

12 team system does not work anymore. Its boring playing each other 4 times albeit we should have a competative league this year.

The scraping of the reserve league is not such a good thing, but this may also force teams to farm out players more to the lower leagues so they get real competative action. Not a bad thing.

I am surprised clubs still don't take part ownership of players as happens on the continent.

For the moment its all talk.......until someone breaks in between the ugly sisters.

[JE89]

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Scottish Premier League
Rangers
Celtic
Hibernian
Dundee Utd
Motherwell
Aberdeen
St Mirren
Hearts
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Hamilton
Falkirk
Ross County
Dundee
Partick Thistle
Raith Rovers
Queen of the South
Inverness Caley Thistle
Dunfermline
Greenock Morton

Bottom three relegated. top three from League one promoted.

It would significantly decrease the value of a season ticket with this league. Playing Rangers, Celtic and Hearts four (twice at ER) times per season are games I really look forward too. With the new system, we would have one home game and one away against these team and the rest of the season filled up with the likes of Raith Rovers and Queen of the South - not for me

[MacBean]

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It would significantly decrease the value of a season ticket with this league. Playing Rangers, Celtic and Hearts four (twice at ER) times per season are games I really look forward too. With the new system, we would have one home game and one away against these team and the rest of the season filled up with the likes of Raith Rovers and Queen of the South - not for me

another angle worth looking at!
Good point John!

[iwasthere1972]

Sod all this faffing about with the formats of the Scottish leagues. This is where we want to be.

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Birmingham City
Blackburn Rovers
Bolton Wanderers
Burnley
Chelsea
Everton
Fulham
Hibernian FC
Hull City
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Portsmouth
Stoke City
Sunderland
Tottenham Hotspur
West Ham United
Wigan Athletic

[Cameron1875]

It would significantly decrease the value of a season ticket with this league. Playing Rangers, Celtic and Hearts four (twice at ER) times per season are games I really look forward too. With the new system, we would have one home game and one away against these team and the rest of the season filled up with the likes of Raith Rovers and Queen of the South - not for me

Aye but imagine the atmosphere for the only hibs v hearts game at easter road a season. Place would be rocking.

[alphahibby]

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Sod all this faffing about with the formats of the Scottish leagues. This is where we want to be.

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Birmingham City
Blackburn Rovers
Bolton Wanderers
Burnley
Chelsea
Everton
Fulham
Hibernian FC
Hull City
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Portsmouth
Stoke City
Sunderland
Tottenham Hotspur
West Ham United
Wigan Athletic

great idea shame it wont happen

[MacBean]

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Sod all this faffing about with the formats of the Scottish leagues. This is where we want to be.

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Birmingham City
Blackburn Rovers
Bolton Wanderers
Burnley
Chelsea
Everton
Fulham
Hibernian FC
Hull City
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Portsmouth
Stoke City
Sunderland
Tottenham Hotspur
West Ham United
Wigan Athletic

Wolves punted cos they have a jambo

[MacBean]

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Aye but imagine the atmosphere for the only hibs v hearts game at easter road a season. Place would be rocking.

And of course we would have the funds to expand our stadium (Corners n all) since it will be bursting at the seams with this newly competitive league

[iwasthere1972]

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Wolves punted cos they have a jambo

No. It's because they are last in the alphabet.

[iwasthere1972]

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And of course we would have the funds to expand our stadium (Corners n all) since it will be bursting at the seams with this newly competitive league

Some of our games proposed in the revamped league would only require the corners.

[MacBean]

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Some of our games proposed in the revamped league would only require the corners.

touche

[Regina Phalange]

I would have two 16 team senior divisions with a pyramid below that incorporating the juniors. 2 up, 2 down or maybe incorporate a relegation/promotion play off. Teams play each other once home and away giving a 30 game league season.

The shortfall in games is filled by having a group stage at the start of a revamped League cup. All 32 teams in groups of 4 organised regionally, playing home and away. This guarantees every team in the league structure 36 games, with decent attendances as well as all the ties will all be local. It would mean there would be still be 4 derbies a season as well as guaranteeing games like the Dundee derby every season even when they are in separate divisions.

That gives you the best of both worlds - you still get 4 games a season against teams you really want to play, but you get the freshness of having more variety in the other games.

[Hibbyradge]

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Aye but imagine the atmosphere for the only hibs v hearts game at easter road a season. Place would be rocking.

Aye.

Less rocking though for Hibs v ICT, QOS, Morton, Ross County etc etc.

I wonder how many would turn up for Ross County v QOS.

[GlesgaeHibby]

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It would significantly decrease the value of a season ticket with this league. Playing Rangers, Celtic and Hearts four (twice at ER) times per season are games I really look forward too. With the new system, we would have one home game and one away against these team and the rest of the season filled up with the likes of Raith Rovers and Queen of the South - not for me

Aye but the downside of that is that we see teams like Motherwell, St Mirren, Falkirk, Kilmarnock etc at least 3 times per season.

As someone else mentioned the 2 derbies/OF games per season would be more anticipated than they currently are.

[MacBean]

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Aye.

Less rocking though for Hibs v ICT, QOS, Morton, Ross County etc etc.

I wonder how many would turn up for Ross County v QOS.

No more or less than at present!?

[Ritchie]

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All this chat of The ugly sisters running away to Engerland or the need for a Scottish football shake up got me thinking of the various possibilities that we could have.

I looked around the top nations in Europe and their league formats. Most of them have 20 teams in the top division with 3 being relegated and 3 coming up from the division below. There is also a pyramid system in place in a lot of leagues, like Spain and of course England that work incredibly well.

Why not up here in Scotland!

we have far too many teams in the lower leagues to be competing across three divisions and for only one team to go down from the top division leaves little for those in the lower leagues to aspire to as one spot is a massive challenge!

Why not this kind of format!? All the teams are placed as they currently are in thier league standings (expect the junior teams).

Scottish Premier League
Rangers
Celtic
Hibernian
Dundee Utd
Motherwell
Aberdeen
St Mirren
Hearts
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Hamilton
Falkirk
Ross County
Dundee
Partick Thistle
Raith Rovers
Queen of the South
Inverness Caley Thistle
Dunfermline
Greenock Morton

Bottom three relegated. top three from League one promoted.

Scottish League One
Ayr
Airdrie United
Stirling
Brechin
Cowdenbeath
Alloa
Peterhead
East Fife
Dumbarton
Arbroath
Stenhousemuir
Clyde
East Stirling
Albion
Livingston
Berwick
Forfar
Annan Athletic
Queens Park
Stranraer
Elgin
Montrose

Bottom four relegated, two from two Junior divisions replace them

Scottish Non-League split into two Leagues of 16-20 (north & south / East & West)
Including the likes of:
Spartans
Tynecastle
Whitehill Welfare
Vale of Leithen
Preston Athletic
Lothian Thistle
Dalbeattie Star
Threave Rovers
Buckie Thistle
Brora Rangers
Cove Rangers
Deveronvale
Forres Mechanics
Inverurie Locos
Civil Service
Edinburgh City
Lewis United
Irvine Meadow
Pollock
Banks O'Dee

I know this is a bit farfetched and perhaps a bit too much thought has gone into this, but i would LOVE to see a serious shake up in Scotland and something like this would do the trick!

What are your thoughst, or do i deserve to be shot down!?

discuss...

i was talking to my mate about this before the killie game... would love to see it but it wont happen because there are too many people in this country who are scared of change and have no ambition.

they'd rather carry on with the current predictable set up and fight for 3rd! WOOPTY DOO!!

another thing id like to see is the CIS & the carling cup abolished to make way for a Bristish league cup. would add a bit excitement to what are dull cup competitions.

imagine an away tie against man utd, chelski, liverpool or arsenal....

[bobbyhibs1983]

i agree , something has to be done, i do like the idea of a 20 team league as the o.p has stated , but to the people who are agaisnt it due to the fact that we would be playing much "lesser" teams so to speak then i would ask, would you support hibs playing rangers MORE than any other hibs game?


Or would you support hibs whoever we would be playing?

[sambajustice]

I think a big reason the crowds are so pap these days are because we are the playing the same teams so often!

imagine one game a season against celtic, rangers & hearts. It would sell out in a flash you could probably get about 20-25k at each of those games.

Would probably even be worth building a new stand if we knew we were going to fill it a lot of the time!

[craig1875]

For me it has to be either 10 teams or 20, that way you get to play each team at home as many times as away. how can it be fair to play a team at home once in a season but play them away from home 3 times, like what can currently happen? Might not sound like much but it could mean the difference between europe or not, or for some teams even just staying in the league.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think the league should be split according to the size of support the teams have. The Scottish League was founded to maximise revenue by ensuring that the clubs with the biggest support played each other regularly.

[Hibbyradge]

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No more or less than at present!?

It could well be less than at present if, as would be likely, neither team were challenging at the top, or if there was nothing at stake later in the season.

Also remember that this would be the top league. The league which would define Scottish Football.

The league we would hope to sell to sponsors and TV broadcasters.

[MacBean]

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It could well be less than at present if, as would be likely, neither team were challenging at the top, or if there was nothing at stake later in the season.

Also remember that this would be the top league. The league which would define Scottish Football.

The league we would hope to sell to sponsors and TV broadcasters.

You have a point there, however i would imagine that this sort of game would not be shown live on TV and would get minimal highlights, a bit like how Burnley vs West Ham wouldnt be shown live, and if it was a Dire 0-0 game, would be in the highlight reel near the end of the show where they show three or four games in quick succession.

Very rarely do we see Hamilton vs Kilmarnock live on ESPN. However i have noticed that Hamilton vs Hearts is on Sky in a few weeks!

It is quite sad to say that the Old Firm are the pulling power of our sponsorship deals and that will be the case in any sort of league formation, whether we played 39 teams once a season, 19 teams twice, or in the current format. Until someone breaks them over consecutive seasons or does extremely well in Europe for a couple of Seasons (past group stage of Europa league/ splits the OF and reaches the group stages of Champions league) then it is quite a sad stroy that the OF will be the main attraction in our league for any possible investors.

[iwasthere1972]

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I think a big reason the crowds are so pap these days are because we are the playing the same teams so often!

imagine one game a season against celtic, rangers & hearts. It would sell out in a flash you could probably get about 20-25k at each of those games.
Would probably even be worth building a new stand if we knew we were going to fill it a lot of the time!

Not entirely true as we (and Hearts) have to finish in the top six to get another "stab" at Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. So going into the first home game of the season against those teams could be the only time we play them at home that season. No crystal ball.

[Tinyclothes]

I agree with the 20 team league. It will briong us in line with other leagues and we can do away with the stupid split as well. I think arguing that we would miss out on the extra old firm and jambo matches is a weak point as you should follow Hibs regardless of who we're playing and you're playing into the ugly sisters hands if you are giving them added importance.