fans shout at players at every club so why are there succesful clubs? the abuse players get at say Italian clubs is 10x worse than what say Rankin or Alan Obrien got or gets, thing is IMo the players dont really focus on it, in heat of game they need to hear it I bet when I shout it gets lost in noise of everything else.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Clubs are sucsesful due to how they are run and the players signed along with manager, a few folk on here and at games given it tight to JR matters not a jot.
You say about somebody shoutiung at me doing my job, lets see how many players who get stick fancy the 9-5 or the stick?
You seem to be under impression we are the worst for it, OF give there own plenty of stick, as does every club, its part of game rightly or wrongly.
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23-09-2009 03:42 PM #61
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23-09-2009 03:44 PM #62This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I'm talking about the nature of professional football. You're suddenly off on some tangent about Rice and Hughes! As in any role, the management of individuals will be best achieved by understanding each individuals drives and needs. Some need a hug, others need a kick. Thats up to them to manage, and has zero to do with your OP.
One would hope part of the management is teaching players how to cope with the more appalling abuse they will get. Hey - im not defending any knuckle dragging, barely evolved lowlife getting his jollies by spending the match ripping the Lillian out of, say, Rankin - not by any stretch. But it would absurd in the extreme to imagine that players dont go into this with their eyes wide open, and - one would hope - with tools to help them cope with it.
As for the Yantorno point - I have no idea what you are on about here. He hardly kicked a ball in anger all season - he didnt have enough pitch time to be barracked
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23-09-2009 03:45 PM #63
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23-09-2009 04:12 PM #64This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Supporters should support. Typically they pay their money to earn the right to vent their spleen. That's not supporting in any human sense
In Yantorno's case, here's a guy getting paid every week, no need to play but was still miserable as sin and that affected his self belief. It is reported when he moved to Chester that he spent his time at home reading posts such as on .net where posters were offering opinions such as 'Should never have signed him, waste of a wage, never good enough for Hibs hence why he's not playing etc.
McCann had a similar problem and the fans did get on his back on the pitch as he played on with an injury, and he suffered. Whether or not professional footballers can take certain levels of abuse doesn't justify/condone the abuse nor does it help the situation.
So the next part of the discussion is:
1. Why do supporters (in this case, Hibs supporters) willingly assist the team's decline by slaughtering them on and off the pitch?
2. Returning to the OP, why when we've spent money on bringing in a widely agreed better standard of playing and coaching personnel, do we still deliver the same Hibsesque results as we've done year in year out with the odd exception, for the last 30+ years?
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23-09-2009 04:22 PM #65
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For me its only an issue if its only at Hibs, its not, its at everyclub therefore its not a factor at all.
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23-09-2009 04:36 PM #66
Cant be bothered reading through this whole thread, started reading the first page but then i got bored. Heres my feelings..
We have the RIGHT to have high expectations at Hibs, that being a 3rd place finish and a good run in the cups every year! Folk who have been saying we are similar to the likes of Motherwell etc...GET A GRIP!
Now i know theres a Well fan whos been posting on this thread, and mate, dont you for one second think your club is on par with Hibs!
Lets start with the attendances we get everyweek compaired to Motherwell, Kilmarknock, Hamilton, Falkirk etc etc. We get TRIPLE the amount of fans EVERY WEEK, than these clubs do! They turn up at their stadiums each week and sit with around 3,000-5,000 fellow supporters!
We on the other hand NEVER have less than 10,000 at a league home game. This is one of the main reasons i put us well above these teams outside the OF, Hearts and Aberdeen. Attendances bring in money, and therefore we bring in a hell of alot more money coming in each week than these other teams. We also sell players for BIG money, something that other clubs just simply dont do, because they dont produce the stars we do!
Ah i could give many more reasons why us as Hibs supports should have high expectations, the list is quite big! We are a big club folks. Lets have some ambition and be positive!Last edited by California-Hibs; 23-09-2009 at 04:38 PM.
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23-09-2009 04:40 PM #67This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
When we go around calling other clubs "wee" teams we sound like Yams.
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23-09-2009 04:43 PM #68
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We are far larger than half the clubs in the SPL
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23-09-2009 04:48 PM #69This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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23-09-2009 04:53 PM #70
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23-09-2009 05:30 PM #71This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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23-09-2009 09:21 PM #72This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
So.... do I win the prize?
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23-09-2009 09:42 PM #73This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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23-09-2009 10:00 PM #74This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Motherwell fans apparently:
> have lower expectations
> never barrack their players or criticise them online
> are steady individuals, neither up nor down
and this is a key factor in their team's early success this season.
Or have I misunderstood?
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23-09-2009 10:37 PM #75
I think I'm going to apply to join the rationalists.
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24-09-2009 07:07 AM #76This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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24-09-2009 07:08 AM #77
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I find the barracking point totally ridiculous on reflection, I mean it happens everywhere at every club its got nothing to do with progress or where we are at.
Lets say it did, so while we are barracking our number 5, the other teams fans are doing the same thing to one of their own. So theres the leveller, but there is no need for a leveller as its not an issue.
I dunno if anyone thinks we are worse and what proof there is, certainly if we are any worse and its well known it hasnt stopped several players from this league joining us.
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24-09-2009 12:43 PM #78This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Let's now say that the other team continue on as they are and we decide to get right behind our hapless number 5 to try and encourage him to improve. Let's say we do this for each game and each player who is not doing the business on the park but yet still getting picked.
Over the course of a season, do you think that our team would benefit from the supporters doing this, worsen from the supporters doing this or no discernable difference either way?
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24-09-2009 01:01 PM #79This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
What do you say to a player after his pass shoots 10 yds past it's intended target for the umpteenth time.....well done, good try, you'll get it next time
At the basic level we are paying these guys to do something for us, which is entertain us. If they continually fail to do so surely we have a right to tell them. If a plumber fitted your sink upside down I'm sure you would let him know.....and if he made the same mistake again, well work it out.
BTW - I'm pretty sure a lot of threads on here concerning Yantorno were actually demanding that he did start/play.
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24-09-2009 02:58 PM #80This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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24-09-2009 03:42 PM #81
i respect your opinions speedway and i think i understand what you are saying in terms of constantly hounding our players.
but i really do feel that its no worse at hibernian FC than any other club in the SPL.
I grant you that young men such as hanlon, stevenson and mcann would take a bit time to get used to receiving abuse for poor performances..players such as ian murray, stokes, miller and mcbride who have played for a whole host of high profile clubs should be able to handle shouts from the stands after a few years in the game
and finally who ever is suggesting that motherwell FC are bigger than Hibernian FC is being quite simply stupid. HIbs are bigger in every way,shape and form,although this gives us no god given right to finish higher than motherwell in the league or beat them on every occasion.
i would suggest that Rangers and celtic are of course the biggest, followed by hibs,hearts,aberdeen and probarlly dundee united and then the rest of the clubs.
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24-09-2009 04:30 PM #82
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24-09-2009 05:12 PM #83This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
In the league and the cups, smaller teams have regular done better than us. Yet we change directors, we change coaches, we change managers, we change players but nothing fundamentally changes.
So let's say that there's no foundation to my original argument, how do posters diagnose continued underachievement for this 'big club' of ours despite all personnel everywhere changing every few years?
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24-09-2009 05:39 PM #84This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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24-09-2009 10:35 PM #85This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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24-09-2009 10:38 PM #86This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
1. By suggesting that I was blaming 'every last one' of the Hibs support and
2. By claimng things I'd never said about the Motherwell support in the spirit of facetiousness.
But you know that fine well don't you BEEJ?
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24-09-2009 11:03 PM #87This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
FWIW I think it's an overly simplistic theory, borne out of your (understandable) frustration at some of the more extreme comments that were flying about this site on Tuesday night.
Without doubt there is seldom an animated atmosphere at ER these days, one which is so positive for the Hibs players that it actually intimidates our opponents. I don't know what that is down to but suspect that it's many years of underachievement at ER that has conditioned supporters to expect the next gaff or c0ck-up to arrive in a match any time soon. Disappointment sems to be always just around the corner.
But that alone would not (for me anyway) explain 30+ years of underachievement; indeed I think it could just as easily be argued that the causal relationship is the other way round.
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24-09-2009 11:12 PM #88This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
the fans are the only constant in Hibs constant under achievement. No. This isnt true. The biggest single constant factor is that two teams dominate in Scotland, and that they win a massive percentage of the available silverware. The others pick up scraps as a result of a good season or a fortunate cup draw. The league has been out of question for 20+ years, which leaves cups which are subject to luck as much as anything.
Yet we change directors, we change coaches, we change managers, we change players but nothing fundamentally changes. Again, not true. in the nineties we were relegated and involved in play-offs for relegation. Now we are pretty much established as a top six team. Progress? I think so. Maybe not earth shattering but I prefer where we are now to where we were.
The big club/wee club thing is frankly rather distastefully jamboesque, but in Scottish terms, it is indisputable that we are one of the big clubs by turnover and crowds. Forty league clubs, and Hibs are in the top five by both these criteria - this makes us de facto a big club.
And as for your final question, I dont know the answer - if there is one. But im fairly sure it isnt politely putting a positive spin on ineptitude. Thats fine (and appropriate) when you're coaching kids. But these are well paid, professional sportsmen we're talking about here taking part in a game that is entertaining precisley because it can make otherwise rational people experience ludicrous highs and lows of emotions. The minute we stop cheering, shouting, holding our heads in despair and yes, occasionally shouting "get yer finger oot" is the minute it dies as a sport.
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24-09-2009 11:49 PM #89
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4 times in the 20th century and 3 times since WW2. Cups? Jambo's are a bit luckier. So the 2nd tier in scottish football have a fairly similarevel of achievement.
To be honest I can take the defeats the only thing I won't accept is if any player playing for Hibernian doesn't bust a gut playing for the team. All the great teams work harder than everone else, then the talent can make the difference to the scoreline.
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25-09-2009 08:40 AM #90This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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I don't know it either but I don't buy Carlsberg's 'we're no worse than anyone else so let's not examine how to improve' theory.
I accept irrational emotion is de facto, though I've stopped feeling it myself because you learn the crack after a while. It's the level, speed and severity of attack on here and in the stands especially which I believe is contributing to hindering our improvement on the pitch, even if it's only a small hinderance, it's still a hinderance.
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