Scotland team for tomorrow

***JimBHibees*** · 08-09-2009 01:35 PM

Personally think we should line up as we did against France by packing the midfield and playing one up. Important IMO to stay in the game as long as we can and not let Holland cut through us. Think we would be a reasonable threat from corners and set pieces and if need be and if it is still level try and go for it in the last 15.

Gordon

Hutton Weir McManus Whittaker

Brown (Maloney if Brown unfit) Hartley Caldwell Fletcher D, Fletcher S.

Miller

PS. personally think it is appalling and that this Group are at a big disadvantage with our games ending tomorrow. It is possible if we were finishing at the same times as the other Groups that with 30 mins to go we would know that a draw could have seen us in second place and qualifying for a play off place. As it is with 15 to go and if we are drawing we will likely need to go for it to try and win the game possibly meaning more chance of the Dutch scoring and us losing.

**hibsdaft** · 08-09-2009 01:41 PM

is Robben fit and likely to start?

Hutton is going to have to watch those forays forward, even against Macedonia we were getting left over exposed at the back with nobody taking the job of covering him seemingly.

**~~Alicky Ranks~~** · 08-09-2009 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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Personally think we should line up as we did against France by packing the midfield and playing one up. Important IMO to stay in the game as long as we can and not let Holland cut through us. Think we would be a reasonable threat from corners and set pieces and if need be and if it is still level try and go for it in the last 15.

Gordon

Hutton Weir McManus Whittaker

Brown (Maloney if Brown unfit) Hartley Caldwell Fletcher D, Fletcher S.

Miller

PS. personally think it is appalling and that this Group are at a big disadvantage with our games ending tomorrow. It is possible if we were finishing at the same times as the other Groups that with 30 mins to go we would know that a draw could have seen us in second place and qualifying for a play off place. As it is with 15 to go and if we are drawing we will likely need to go for it to try and win the game possibly meaning more chance of the Dutch scoring and us losing.

I don't think it's worth getting bothered about the group finishing earlier than others. Scotland should have had no problems finishing second in what, bar the Dutch, is a very weak group. The fact they still haven't even achieved that modest target indicates they don't deserve to qualify. The main problem as I see it is that if we scrape a draw tomorrow we have to wait another month for confirmation of Burley's sacking.

**ancienthibby** · 08-09-2009 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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Personally think we should line up as we did against France by packing the midfield and playing one up. Important IMO to stay in the game as long as we can and not let Holland cut through us. Think we would be a reasonable threat from corners and set pieces and if need be and if it is still level try and go for it in the last 15.

Gordon

Hutton Weir McManus Whittaker

Brown (Maloney if Brown unfit) Hartley Caldwell Fletcher D, Fletcher S.

Miller

PS. personally think it is appalling and that this Group are at a big disadvantage with our games ending tomorrow. It is possible if we were finishing at the same times as the other Groups that with 30 mins to go we would know that a draw could have seen us in second place and qualifying for a play off place. As it is with 15 to go and if we are drawing we will likely need to go for it to try and win the game possibly meaning more chance of the Dutch scoring and us losing.

Brown is fit; Gordon is rated only 50/50 though.

But I'd keep Maloney in the team anyway with Hartley and omit Caldwell!

**hibsdaft** · 08-09-2009 01:54 PM

Netherlands squad from Wikipedia:

GK Maarten Stekelenburg Ajax
GK Michel Vorm Utrecht
GK Piet Velthuizen Vitesse

DF Gregory van der Wiel Ajax
DF Giovanni van Bronckhorst (captain) Feyenoord
DF André Ooijer PSV
DF John Heitinga Everton
DF Edson Braafheid Bayern Munich
DF Joris Mathijsen Hamburg
DF Glenn Loovens Celtic

MF Demy de Zeeuw Ajax
MF Stijn Schaars AZ
MF David Mendes da Silva Z
MF Nigel de Jong Manchester City
MF Rafael van der Vaart Real Madrid
MF Wesley Sneijder Internazionale

FW Robin van Persie Arsenal
FW Ryan Babel Liverpool
FW Dirk Kuyt Liverpool
FW Arjen Robben Bayern München
FW Eljero Elia Hamburg
FW Klaas-Jan Huntelaar A.C. Milan

Netherlands first XI vs Japan on Saturday:

1 Michel Vorm (G)

5 Giovanni Van Bronckhorst (D)
4 Joris Mathijsen (D)
3 Glenn Loovens (D)
2 Gregory Van Der Wiel (D)

6 David Mendes Da Silva (M)
11 Arjen Robben (M)
8 Nigel De Jong (M)
10 Wesley Sneijder (M)

9 Dirk Kuyt (ST)
7 Robin Van Persie

**iwasthere1972** · 08-09-2009 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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PS. personally think it is appalling and that this Group are at a big disadvantage with our games ending tomorrow. It is possible if we were finishing at the same times as the other Groups that with 30 mins to go we would know that a draw could have seen us in second place and qualifying for a play off place. As it is with 15 to go and if we are drawing we will likely need to go for it to try and win the game possibly meaning more chance of the Dutch scoring and us losing.

We could have Albert Einstein sitting in the dug out, constantly getting updates on the other matches in the groups that could affect our qualifying for the play offs, and we still wouldn't know our fate until the final whistle has been blown.

Scotland have to go for a win tomorrow and not sit back hoping that one point will do because I very much doubt that it will.

It's all or nothing I fear.

By the way I do agree that all final games should be played at the same time and on the same day. The fact that they don't is (as you so rightly put it) appalling.

***JimBHibees*** · 08-09-2009 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Alicky Ranks

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I don't think it's worth getting bothered about the group finishing earlier than others. Scotland should have had no problems finishing second in what, bar the Dutch, is a very weak group. The fact they still haven't even achieved that modest target indicates they don't deserve to qualify. The main problem as I see it is that if we scrape a draw tomorrow we have to wait another month for confirmation of Burley's sacking.

Disagree personally think all the groups should be finishing at the same time not giving teams in other groups the advantage of knowing exactly what they need to do. Whether we should have finished second clearly is arguable given Norway horsed us 4-0. The biggest problem in this group IMO has been the scheduling of the games with 2 of the most important games scheduled at appalling stages of the season.

***JimBHibees*** · 08-09-2009 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by iwasthere1972

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We could have Albert Einstein sitting in the dug out, constantly getting updates on the other matches in the groups that could affect our qualifying for the play offs, and we still wouldn't know our fate until the final whistle has been blown.

Scotland have to go for a win tomorrow and not sit back hoping that one point will do because I very much doubt that it will.

It's all or nothing I fear.

While that is true for tomorrow it is not necessarily true if our game was at the same time of the final games in other groups. It may have been very clear what was required or it may have only depended on one game which may have determined whether a draw was enough.

**iwasthere1972** · 08-09-2009 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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While that is true for tomorrow it is not necessarily true if our game was at the same time of the final games in other groups. It may have been very clear what was required or it may have only depended on one game which may have determined whether a draw was enough.

I had edited my previous post agreeing with your point.

**Andy74** · 08-09-2009 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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While that is true for tomorrow it is not necessarily true if our game was at the same time of the final games in other groups. It may have been very clear what was required or it may have only depended on one game which may have determined whether a draw was enough.

If they all finished at the same time it's highly unlikely we would have been able to work out half an hour before the end of all the games finishing what the situation was and then attempt to play accordingly.

***JimBHibees*** · 08-09-2009 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Andy74

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If they all finished at the same time it's highly unlikely we would have been able to work out half an hour before the end of all the games finishing what the situation was and then attempt to play accordingly.

You are probably right that it would have worked out like that however the advantage is likely to be with the other groups who will know exactly what they have to do to beat Scotland's or whoever is 2nd place in our group.

**iwasthere1972** · 08-09-2009 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Andy74

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If they all finished at the same time it's highly unlikely we would have been able to work out half an hour before the end of all the games finishing what the situation was and then attempt to play accordingly.

The argument is that if Scotland were playing on the same night as the other teams chasing that second spot and three points were required by us and them then everybody would be going out with a win attitude. At 0-0, 1-1 or 2-2 teams would be pushing for a win.

With us playing weeks before them they will know what's required and if it is only a point they need and the game is 1-1 or 2-2 with 30 mins to go they could sit back and play the game out.

Hope that makes sense.

FIFA numpties

**hibsdaft** · 08-09-2009 02:36 PM

i think it works well for us tbh, we go for the win but know that a draw is not a disaster. means we're more likely to get the balance between simply attacking, and attacking but leaving ourselves overexposed right imo.

**Hibster** · 08-09-2009 02:37 PM

Is it not the SFA's fault for scheduling the games for this week, instead of next month at the same times as all the other groups - or did they have to be played this week?

**iwasthere1972** · 08-09-2009 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Hibster

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Is it not the SFA's fault for scheduling the games for this week, instead of next month at the same times as all the other groups - or did they have to be played this week?

Norway and Macedonia are playing the same night as us so would hazard a guess that it was FIFA rather that the SFA who chose the date.