Anyone depressed about the new season already?

[Sergey]

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Well clearly Owen Coyle has a different opinion of him than you do, so does George Burley for that matter, Zouma is a plus, granted, hopefully he will have brought consistency with him, however, our defence is a shambles & our midfield [Zouma apart] toothless and up front Riordan is our only potent goal scorer.

You talk about Fletcher missing chances, how many times does Nish being offside bring good attacks to a halt? Many chances lost due one of our senior players seriously lacking the basics?

You mentioned replacing Jones, if its not within, that's strengthening the squad and something I had said we needed to do, although I mentioned three players needed.

You said that the current squad couldn't compete for 3rd place. I say it can.

Out with the OF, I don't think there's much between the other teams in the league. Hibs aren't alone in losing their better players.

The point I've highlighted was probably as much to do with our style of play last season than it was the said player lacking basic skills.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I dont see any wrist cutting, i see a bit of concern. We all, well maybe not us all, but most of us can see we are weaker now than when we finished the season in 6th. Yes Zemamma is back, we also have the two falkirk players, and yogi, who will get us playing differently. I have no doubt with this squad, we can again challenge for 6th spot, but imho that is not good enough, in fact its again imho failure. We need the 3 players you talk about, perhaps we need even more. There's no prozac being taken, just people having the same concerns we seem to have year after year after year.

Concern is one thing, talking about being depressed is another altogether. I agree that things need to improve, but I won't be overly concerned until the window closes.

I know there's no Prozac being taken, but maybe some people need to. Depression is taking an unrealistically gloomy view of things.

[blackpoolhibs]

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When did anyone say this?

He's the one whos started up front most of the pre season games, he's the man we will be relying on to score our goals, along with riordan. So he is the new saviour, we are actually better off without fletcher. He cost us points last season.

[hibsbollah]

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He's the one whos started up front most of the pre season games, he's the man we will be relying on to score our goals, along with riordan. So he is the new saviour, we are actually better off without fletcher. He cost us points last season.

So, no-one actually said it then.

[blackpoolhibs]

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So, no-one actually said it then.

Can you not read, of course someone said it.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Concern is one thing, talking about being depressed is another altogether. I agree that things need to improve, but I won't be overly concerned until the window closes.

I know there's no Prozac being taken, but maybe some people need to. Depression is taking an unrealistically gloomy view of things.

Ah there you go again, i dont see any of that, all i see is a little concern. And that could all disapear should the tache open his wallet, and we get these 3-4-5 players we certainly need.

[Sergey]

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He's the one whos started up front most of the pre season games, he's the man we will be relying on to score our goals, along with riordan. So he is the new saviour, we are actually better off without fletcher. He cost us points last season.

I can recall two instances last season (there may have been more) when Fletcher slid in and attempted to score with his left peg when even I could have scored with my right. IIRC we drew both matches (therefore costing us points).

Maybe your interpretation differs.

[Ray_]

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I assume that you are forgetting that what you are complaining we have "lost" over the last 3 years are products of the youth system we have turned into top level players and sold on for large fees and bosman signings or minimal fee purchases we had never heard of until they came to us??

as far as i can see we are simply following the same route that served us so well with Mowbray, a highly rated batch of young players breaking through into the first team squad to be developed into star players for us.....we're already seeing the potential with players like Byrne, Wotherspoon and Hanlon pushing for first team places while Currie, Welsh & Deane are in the squad learning thier trade and we have another layer below in the u-19's with some potentially cracking players ready to breakthrough in the next 2 or 3 years and we have a manager with a track record of developing young players into the SPL so we are perfectly placed to take advantage of our "conveyer belt of talent" with the right infastructure in place (that our previous "golden generation helped pay for).

We might not be going out and spending hundreds of thousands of pounds in transfer fees and much more on top of that in the wages that these type of players will demand but we are working hard to develop the new Scott Brown, Garry O'Connor or Steven Whittaker which is the only way non-OF teams in the SPL could possibly hope to have players of that quality in thier teams and we're signing players like Galbraith & McReadie who haven't quite made the grade in the premiership but could very well be the next David Murphy.

Too many people seem to want an instant fix and for us to start spending money all over the place rather than giving our hugely successful youths a chance which, as far as i am concerned, is what Hibs are about just as much as attractive, passing football. Hibs aren't a big club that will be challenging for titles and cups every season while the old firm are still around and people who think we have some divine right to third place are deluded when decent teams like Hearts (i feel so dirty admitting that), Dundee United and Aberdeen are all competing at the same level as us.

The future is bright, the future is green & white........but patience is the key.

Patience right enough, we waited 35 years for a group of to come through our youth system that came anywhere reasonably close to the league the likes of John Brownlie, John Blackley & Alex Cropley, operated at.

The older generation had been supplemented by buying in youngsters such as Erich Scheadler & Arthur Duncan, add the old hands like Stanton & O'Rourke & shrewd buys made by ET, such as Edwards & Gordon & the tornadoes were formed.

TM never benefited from having the Stanton or O'Rourke already at the club or having the money to bring in the quality of an Edwards or Gordon, however, if you think the likes of our last golden generation comes around every couple of years, you clearly know little about the history of Scottish football over the last thirty years or so.

We may be better at attracting youngsters, however, churning out a Scott Brown or a Kevin Thomson's is a whole different matter & churning them out altogether is something else.

How many years did it take to get a decent right back before Steven Whittaker made the position his own? The same could be said with Murphy, although that answer is easier, as it came in McLeish's era. Before Jones, how many years had we been searching for a commanding centre half?

Why do you believe that all of a sudden this type of talent will become readily available? One things for sure, we are building the new generation of young players up for an almighty fall, by having this level of expectation.

[hibsbollah]

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Can you not read, of course someone said it.

No-one described Nish as 'the new saviour'. You seem to be a bit fond of using strawman arguments to back up your ropey, negative point of view that we are doomed, and we are certs for relegation. (see youve got me doing it now)...

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Ah there you go again, i dont see any of that, all i see is a little concern. And that could all disapear should the tache open his wallet, and we get these 3-4-5 players we certainly need.

BH - look at the title of the thread please.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I can recall two instances last season (there may have been more) when Fletcher slid in and attempted to score with his left peg when even I could have scored with my right. IIRC we drew both matches (therefore costing us points).

Maybe your interpretation differs.

I remember jones missing a couple of headers he should have scored with, nish well pick any game. JJ what did he actually do? Lewis stevenson, has he even scored a goal? Maka, how many points did he cost us? Yet it was fletcher going with his wrong foot that cost us european football. Quality. I await the multi million pound offers for these players to join fletcher in the premiership.

[blackpoolhibs]

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BH - look at the title of the thread please.

I realise that FR, but it has diverted a little, and we are not seeing depression, or wrists being cut. Its just a discussion on what needs doing, will it get done, who knows.

[Ray_]

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You said that the current squad couldn't compete for 3rd place. I say it can.

Out with the OF, I don't think there's much between the other teams in the league. Hibs aren't alone in losing their better players.

The point I've highlighted was probably as much to do with our style of play last season than it was the said player lacking basic skills.

You should have seen him in Ireland! Hopefully you won't get the chance to prove you're point, no matter how wrong I think you are, as hopefully we will bring in those desperately needed players.

[blackpoolhibs]

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No-one described Nish as 'the new saviour'. You seem to be a bit fond of using strawman arguments to back up your ropey, negative point of view that we are doomed, and we are certs for relegation. (see youve got me doing it now)...

You do have difficulty in reading, dont you. Let me state here and now, i predict we will not be relegated, we wont struggle at the wrong end of the table, and we will finish around 6th again. Unless we get at least 3 probably 4 more players, i dont think we will make 3rd though. Is that clear enough for you? If anyone else says i am predicting doom, i will just keep bringing this post up.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I realise that FR, but it has diverted a little, and we are not seeing depression, or wrists being cut. Its just a discussion on what needs doing, will it get done, who knows.

I hear what you are saying, but it is just one man's opinion. I agree there is cause for concern.

I realise that just as the Yams have their belivers, there are some of us who are making all sorts of assumptions about what the board has in mind.

I'd like to think they are waiting till other clubs, and players get desperate towards the end of the month and get players on our terms. I don't think anyone can argue, our board have put themselves in a strong position when it comes to negotiating.

I have a nagging doubt that they think that having brought through one golden generation of players, there is nothing to stop them doing the same again. The evidence on the field would suggest different.

[smurf]

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I hear what you are saying, but it is just one man's opinion. I agree there is cause for concern.

I realise that just as the Yams have their belivers, there are some of us who are making all sorts of assumptions about what the board has in mind.

I'd like to think they are waiting till other clubs, and players get desperate towards the end of the month and get players on our terms. I don't think anyone can argue, our board have put themselves in a strong position when it comes to negotiating.

I have a nagging doubt that they think that having brought through one golden generation of players, there is nothing to stop them doing the same again. The evidence on the field would suggest different.

[JimBHibees]

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This for me is the optimism I cannot muster. There is no rational reason for me to beleive this. History shows that it won't happen.

I don't think we will invest any of this in players and even if we did it will be no more than 20% of the 3.5 million. This will not be enough to make any tangable improvement in the squad.

Me might bring in another player that we have never heard of or is unlikely to be better than what we have, but I am fairly certain we will not replace anyone close to what we have lost.

I admire people like JimBHibees who can sustain this belief, but I think I'm too much of a realist.

I would be amazed of 2 or 3 players didnt come in prior to the end of the window. We will see I suppose.

[MyJo]

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That just makes me smile.

I spoke to one of the directors who was around at the time of O'Conner & Brown et al. He openly admitted that along with all the hard work there was a huge piece of good fortune that combined all this talent to be around at the same time. He also felt it was very unlikely that it would happen again for a very long time.

I happen to agree with him.

Have you not noticed that in playing terms we are not progressing at all. This would surely be the first indicator of some improvement.

I'd also point out that we managed to create the previous talent without such grand infrastructure so why is it so necessary?

did you not notice our under 19 squad winning a league and cup double last season and 7 of them being promoted to the first team squad

What i have noticed in playing terms is that we're passing the ball around and actually making an attempt at playing football.....a complete culture change from what Mixu had us doing and IMO that is progression but its only been 4 weeks and a few friendlies since Yogi has tried to get us playing football again FFS its not going to click overnight and we're still in the process of reshaping the squad to what Yogi wants.

as for the infastructure, your right we didn't need it to develop the previous talent but for a club our size to have pack players into mini-buses and rent public pitches to train on was embarrassing just like having the pathetic east stand alongside our other three top class stands at easter road is embarrassing and unbefitting of our club.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I hear what you are saying, but it is just one man's opinion. I agree there is cause for concern.

I realise that just as the Yams have their belivers, there are some of us who are making all sorts of assumptions about what the board has in mind.

I'd like to think they are waiting till other clubs, and players get desperate towards the end of the month and get players on our terms. I don't think anyone can argue, our board have put themselves in a strong position when it comes to negotiating.

I have a nagging doubt that they think that having brought through one golden generation of players, there is nothing to stop them doing the same again. The evidence on the field would suggest different.

I have no doubts either, that the club are waiting on answers fom players, who will probably have a few offers on the table, and are weighing things up. Come the end of august, we will have new players. Come the end of august we will then get down to seeing how they gell, how yogi can get his style of play over, and how well they adapt. I keep saying this, it is a discussion board, to discuss thing. Football changes from day to day, thats one of the good things about it. So we may be depressed one day, but we can be as happy as a sand boy the next, with a new signing, or a good win.

[Ray_]

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I would be amazed of 2 or 3 players didnt come in prior to the end of the window. We will see I suppose.

I think the main point of hibees_green is the quality factor of who may come in. I think it is pointless to bring in somebody unless they are at a certain quality, we have just got rid of a number of players who were just making up the numbers.

[Ray_]

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did you not notice our under 19 squad winning a league and cup double last season and 7 of them being promoted to the first team squad

.

If just one of them excels in the first team it'll be a bonus, Yogi himself said some will need to be farmed out.

[blackpoolhibs]

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What i have noticed in playing terms is that we're passing the ball around and actually making an attempt at playing football.....a complete culture change from what Mixu had us doing and IMO that is progression but its only been 4 weeks and a few friendlies since Yogi has tried to get us playing football again FFS its not going to click overnight and we're still in the process of reshaping the squad to what Yogi wants.

Culture change?
I hear what you are saying, but surely the players we have, have not forgotten how to pass the ball? They did know how to do it before mixu got his hands on the team. Players have to take resposibility for their own performances, and a lot of them let mixu down last season. We have a few players who are actually in the first team, that should not be, they are just not good enough. Yogi needs time AND A BIT OF MONEY, will he get it?

[Expecting Rain]

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I am, this squad will not make 3rd place, it needs new additions, at least 3 probably more.

I don`t see much depression here but more than a touch of realism which is frowned upon by many on this board, we all collectively want Hibs to do well but we shouldn`t kid ourselves on we have been weakened by the comings and goings so far.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I don`t see much depression here but more than a touch of realism which is frowned upon by many on this board, we all collectively want Hibs to do well but we shouldn`t kid ourselves on we have been weakened by the comings and goings so far.

I agree 100%. I feel we are weaker than we were at the end of last season, although i do feel the SPL is also weaker. It all depends on who we bring in between now and the end of august, but as you say, lets not kid ourselves things are better than they actually are.

[JimBHibees]

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I think the main point of hibees_green is the quality factor of who may come in. I think it is pointless to bring in somebody unless they are at a certain quality, we have just got rid of a number of players who were just making up the numbers.

Absolutely agree with that. No point bringing anyone in if they arent better than what we have or can provide cover we dont currently have.

[Expecting Rain]

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Absolutely agree with that. No point bringing anyone in if they arent better than what we have or can provide cover we dont currently have.

Yes and if anything we need a decent balance, i think Yogi is very aware of that.

[JimBHibees]

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I agree 100%. I feel we are weaker than we were at the end of last season, although i do feel the SPL is also weaker. It all depends on who we bring in between now and the end of august, but as you say, lets not kid ourselves things are better than they actually are.

Agree to an extent we have no doubt lost some quality in Jones and Fletcher leaving and we do need 2 or 3 decent players in this window however if Yogi is able to get a 10-15% improvement in the majority of the guys already here while bringing through 1 or 2 of the u19s as genuine first team squad players we will be stronger.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Agree to an extent we have no doubt lost some quality in Jones and Fletcher leaving and we do need 2 or 3 decent players in this window however if Yogi is able to get a 10-15% improvement in the majority of the guys already here while bringing through 1 or 2 of the u19s as genuine first team squad players we will be stronger.

I hope these next generation of kids can come through next season, and the seasons after. And agree yogi should get an extra percentage out the players we have left, although he's no magician, and will certainly not want to put too much pressure on those very kids we are hopeing will be the future. And for those reasons, i feel its imperative he gets the funds to get the right players in, whoever they are.

[JimBHibees]

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I hope these next generation of kids can come through next season, and the seasons after. And agree yogi should get an extra percentage out the players we have left, although he's no magician, and will certainly not want to put too much pressure on those very kids we are hopeing will be the future. And for those reasons, i feel its imperative he gets the funds to get the right players in, whoever they are.

Agree 100%.

[hibees_green]

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I think the main point of hibees_green is the quality factor of who may come in. I think it is pointless to bring in somebody unless they are at a certain quality, we have just got rid of a number of players who were just making up the numbers.

Correct. I just hope that some bizzare wage cap system isn't blocking this option.