Black men, white grannies, top blonde totty...

[Hibbyradge]

..brown men, Lads in England football shirts, posh dafties in fancy dress, beardie blokes with 70's style Scotland tops, lassies waving union flags and muscle bound crazies.

All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

That's a good thing, yeah?

Could Scottish folk be as warm hearted towards an English sportsman?

[Hibby D]

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..brown men, Lads in England football shirts, posh dafties in fancy dress, beardie blokes with 70's style Scotland tops, lassies waving union flags and muscle bound crazies.

All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

That's a good thing, yeah?

Could Scottish folk be as warm hearted towards an English sportsman?

Some could yes - but we've still got a long way to go before the "opressed" amongst us cheer on an English sporting hero or team.

I'm almost there now I have to say but that's taken a long time and mostly by virtue of having an English siter-in-law who taught me the error of my ways

[FalkirkHibee]

I could never support the England football team and I will always support whoever they are playing. The same goes for their rugby and cricket teams.

However, I don't mind supporting English sportsmen and women who compete for Britain, such as at the Olympics and tennis.

[hibsdaft]

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All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

aye, now he's looking like he can win it.

[Pretty Boy]

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..brown men, Lads in England football shirts, posh dafties in fancy dress, beardie blokes with 70's style Scotland tops, lassies waving union flags and muscle bound crazies.

All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

That's a good thing, yeah?

Could Scottish folk be as warm hearted towards an English sportsman?

I could, i've travelled to Manchester several times to support Ricky Hatton.

I have no problem with England or English sportsmen, it's the media nonsense i can't stand.

[Gatecrasher]

I am a Mclaren/Lewis Hamilton fan, i support any british drivers in F1.

i like watching England football team, and i like to see them do well in tournements exept when they come accross scotland, the same would go for any british team.

same with boxing i would chose any english man fighting a yank for example and again that would be the same for any british fighter.

I dont really like the whole im scottish so i hate england thing, i think a riverly is good but for me its only when its scotland v england and no other time.

[Doddie]

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..brown men, Lads in England football shirts, posh dafties in fancy dress, beardie blokes with 70's style Scotland tops, lassies waving union flags and muscle bound crazies.

All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

That's a good thing, yeah?

Could Scottish folk be as warm hearted towards an English sportsman?

Sure.

I supported Tim Henman when he was playing, and I'd have loved to see him win a major tournament.

In individual sports like golf, tennis, rowing, boxing and so on I don't think about the guy's nationality too much. I'd rather see an Englishman do well in any of those than a non-Brit. I'd love to see Jensen Button win the F1 Championship this year, but some of the criticism being thrown at Lewis Hamilton seems to me to be both ignorant and prejudiced. Some journos (and F1 fans) aren't too pleased about the pigmentation of the guy's skin, IMHO. I supported him, and I supported Nigel Mansell, and Damon Hill, and David Coulthard, and Eddie Irvine, and GRAHAM Hill, and Jackie Stewart, and Jim Clark.... And yes, I AM that old.

I admit I do support whoever's playing against England football teams and rugby teams, but that's as much down to the media hype as anything else. I dislike it when Scots journos start the same nonsense about Scottish sportsmen and teams just as much - some of the nonsense about Chris Hoy, for example, really annoyed me. Chris himself deserves all the credit he gets - tremendous sportsman who comes over as a really decent guy. Same goes for the hype surrounding Andy Murray right now.

The reason I impartially support whoever happens to be England's opponents in football or rugby is that the media hype annoys me in the same way as it would if I had to read newspapers and listen to radio and watch TV reports about Heart of Midlothian as if I should automatically wish THEM well just because they see themselves as the "big" team in the city of Edinburgh...

[Dashing Bob S]

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Sure.

I supported Tim Henman when he was playing, and I'd have loved to see him win a major tournament.

In individual sports like golf, tennis, rowing, boxing and so on I don't think about the guy's nationality too much. I'd rather see an Englishman do well in any of those than a non-Brit. I'd love to see Jensen Button win the F1 Championship this year, but some of the criticism being thrown at Lewis Hamilton seems to me to be both ignorant and prejudiced. Some journos (and F1 fans) aren't too pleased about the pigmentation of the guy's skin, IMHO. I supported him, and I supported Nigel Mansell, and Damon Hill, and David Coulthard, and Eddie Irvine, and GRAHAM Hill, and Jackie Stewart, and Jim Clark.... And yes, I AM that old.

I admit I do support whoever's playing against England football teams and rugby teams, but that's as much down to the media hype as anything else. I dislike it when Scots journos start the same nonsense about Scottish sportsmen and teams just as much - some of the nonsense about Chris Hoy, for example, really annoyed me. Chris himself deserves all the credit he gets - tremendous sportsman who comes over as a really decent guy. Same goes for the hype surrounding Andy Murray right now.

The reason I impartially support whoever happens to be England's opponents in football or rugby is that the media hype annoys me in the same way as it would if I had to read newspapers and listen to radio and watch TV reports about Heart of Midlothian as if I should automatically wish THEM well just because they see themselves as the "big" team in the city of Edinburgh...

Therein lies the rub.

Was a runner as as a boy and passionately supported Ovett and Cram but hated Coe. Some English sportsmen I like, others seem to represent the worst of the little Englishness you see trumpeted in the media by bigots or people trying to be (yawn) controversial.

[Filled Rolls]

The Beeb were interviewing some of the dafties that go along to Wimbers and asking the question "is Murray British or Scottish". I'd have thought the only person who can answer that is him, and he's been pretty open about where his allegiances lie.

Doesn't stop some of these mem sahibs insisting that the answer to the question is "British". That sort of thing, the England shirts, and even the UJs, suggest to me that whether he is Scottish or not, he'll be what THEY decide he is.

I don't remember him trying to win over their support at any point, but they have decided he is one of them. For me the problem is that "British" and "English" are the same thing in their mind. As far as they are concerned Murray is an Englishman with a Scottish accent.

He'll be Scottish as soon as he gets knocked out. Just like Lewis Hamilton is black again, now that the isn't winning.

[The Story So Far...]

I don't go as far as to cheer on whoever England are playing these days, in the way that I used to. I've grown to realise that I don't care about England, Wales, NI or any other international country, unless it somehow affects the position/outcome of the US or Scotland.

As for Murray, he'll never view himself as "British" I don't think. He wears his patriotism on his sleeve (literally) and last night, seemed to chose a small section of fans within the crowd who appeared Scottish (with the wearing of Scotland tops, painted faces etc).

Credit where it's due to the BBC News which followed - the constantly described him as the Scot, as opposed to the "British no.1".

It is easier to cheer on English sportsman in an individual capacity - watching golf, I don't mind if any of the young English players win on Tour, but in a team sense, I can't quite get there.

[McSwanky]

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He'll be Scottish as soon as he gets knocked out. Just like Lewis Hamilton is black again, now that the isn't winning.

Age old argument there, and a pretty lazy 'observation' from you. I refute your claim, he is often referred to as Scottish in the media (winning or losing), and I'm sure English people are completely aware of the fact.

(If your comment was made with tongue in cheek then I whole heartedly apologise.)

What interests me is that being Scottish (or Welsh for that matter) is seen as worthy of comment, I can't recall Henman ever being called 'The English.' A bit like the commentators' tendency to call Federer 'the Swiss,' Nadal 'the Spanish' and Djokovic 'the Serb.' Seems a bit strange.

[Steve-O]

I supported Henman and have also supported the likes of Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill, Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis etc etc

Never England as a team though

[khib70]

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..brown men, Lads in England football shirts, posh dafties in fancy dress, beardie blokes with 70's style Scotland tops, lassies waving union flags and muscle bound crazies.

All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

That's a good thing, yeah?

Could Scottish folk be as warm hearted towards an English sportsman?

Agree that the support for Murray was huge, and came from all directions. Disappointing not to see a Hibs top amongst them all , though

Did anyone notice that the BBC cameraman, despite the huge and colourful crowd cut to a shot of the same three guys in straw hats waving UJ's after almost every point? What was that all about - relatives?

His alternative, and more interesting shot was of a well-equipped blonde lady wearing a low cut red top. Her habit of jumping up and down at regular intervals makes the cameraman's frequent cutaways to her both unsurprising and interesting.

[PeeJay]

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..brown men, Lads in England football shirts, posh dafties in fancy dress, beardie blokes with 70's style Scotland tops, lassies waving union flags and muscle bound crazies.

All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

That's a good thing, yeah?

Could Scottish folk be as warm hearted towards an English sportsman?

I live in Germany and I'll support any British team (including England) or sportsperson when playing against 'Johnny Foreigner'. This isn't down to living abroad for so long - in 1966 - when ten and living at home - I supported England, and I was mighty chuffed when they won the World Cup and I was disappointed when they lost narrowly to Germany in 1970.

This whole Scottish "hatred" of English teams is embarrassingly infantile if you ask me: it smacks of a serious inferiority complex and a grotesquely immature attitude to British people on the part of the Scottish - time to get over it and start getting things right back home, instead of pointing and laughing at English failure, while ignoring Scotland's own lack of success!

To be honest, I even switched channels (once recently) when Scotland were playing, because the football was so dire and I watched England instead ... I wish them all the best in South Africa ...

[happyhibbie]

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Agree that the support for Murray was huge, and came from all directions. Disappointing not to see a Hibs top amongst them all , though

Did anyone notice that the BBC cameraman, despite the huge and colourful crowd cut to a shot of the same three guys in straw hats waving UJ's after almost every point? What was that all about - relatives?

His alternative, and more interesting shot was of a well-equipped blonde lady wearing a low cut red top. Her habit of jumping up and down at regular intervals makes the cameraman's frequent cutaways to her both unsurprising and interesting.

What a superb sight too..

[Andy.1875]

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What a superb sight too..

Can't disagree with that

[Gatecrasher]

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Sure.

I supported Tim Henman when he was playing, and I'd have loved to see him win a major tournament.

In individual sports like golf, tennis, rowing, boxing and so on I don't think about the guy's nationality too much. I'd rather see an Englishman do well in any of those than a non-Brit. I'd love to see Jensen Button win the F1 Championship this year, but some of the criticism being thrown at Lewis Hamilton seems to me to be both ignorant and prejudiced. Some journos (and F1 fans) aren't too pleased about the pigmentation of the guy's skin, IMHO. I supported him, and I supported Nigel Mansell, and Damon Hill, and David Coulthard, and Eddie Irvine, and GRAHAM Hill, and Jackie Stewart, and Jim Clark.... And yes, I AM that old.

I admit I do support whoever's playing against England football teams and rugby teams, but that's as much down to the media hype as anything else. I dislike it when Scots journos start the same nonsense about Scottish sportsmen and teams just as much - some of the nonsense about Chris Hoy, for example, really annoyed me. Chris himself deserves all the credit he gets - tremendous sportsman who comes over as a really decent guy. Same goes for the hype surrounding Andy Murray right now.

The reason I impartially support whoever happens to be England's opponents in football or rugby is that the media hype annoys me in the same way as it would if I had to read newspapers and listen to radio and watch TV reports about Heart of Midlothian as if I should automatically wish THEM well just because they see themselves as the "big" team in the city of Edinburgh...

i dont want to turn this into an F1 thread but

[lapsedhibee]

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Did anyone notice that the BBC cameraman, despite the huge and colourful crowd cut to a shot of the same three guys in straw hats waving UJ's after almost every point? What was that all about - relatives?

Think you answered your own question there.

His alternative, and more interesting shot was of a well-equipped blonde lady wearing a low cut red top. Her habit of jumping up and down at regular intervals makes the cameraman's frequent cutaways to her both unsurprising and interesting.

The slomo replay of that had Johnny Mac briefly speechless, it was that effective.

[Doddie]

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Agree that the support for Murray was huge, and came from all directions. Disappointing not to see a Hibs top amongst them all , though

Did anyone notice that the BBC cameraman, despite the huge and colourful crowd cut to a shot of the same three guys in straw hats waving UJ's after almost every point? What was that all about - relatives?

His alternative, and more interesting shot was of a well-equipped blonde lady wearing a low cut red top. Her habit of jumping up and down at regular intervals makes the cameraman's frequent cutaways to her both unsurprising and interesting.

Behave yourself - she was his mother.

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i dont want to turn this into an F1 thread but

F1's interesting in this context because you can have a British driver in a foreign car competing against a foreign driver in a British car.

Which one is it more acceptable to support?

(And if reports are true, you also have an English Chief Executive in Nazi jackboots and.... No, this is a family forum.)


I've always tended to want the British driver to win.

But I've always tended to favour Ferrari as a manufacturer.

[TQM]

Nah - my roots are Engerland and my mother was born there .. but its not on to even mildly dislike them IMHO We must always cheer on their opponents .. MUCH MARE FUN!

[jc1]

The Great Cause
The relationship between the nations of England and Scotland by the 1280s was one of relatively harmonious coexistence.[111] The issue of homage did not reach the same level of controversy as it did in Wales; in 1278 King Alexander III of Scotland paid homage to Edward I, but apparently only for the lands he held of Edward in England.[112] Problems arose only with the Scottish succession crisis of the early 1290s. In the years from 1281 to 1284, Alexander's two sons and one daughter died in quick succession. Then, in 1286, King Alexander died himself, leaving as heir to the throne of Scotland Margaret, born in 1283 to Alexander's daughter Margaret and King Eric II of Norway.[113] By the Treaty of Birgham it was agreed that Margaret should marry King Edward's son Edward of Carnarvon, though Scotland would remain free of English overlordship.[114]

19th-century drawing of the Stone of Destiny. The Scottish coronation stone remained at Westminster until it was returned to Scotland in 1996.


Margaret, known as the Maid of Norway, sailed from Norway for Scotland in the autumn of 1290, but fell ill on the way and died in Orkney.[115] This left the country without an obvious heir, and led to the succession dispute known to history as the Great Cause.[116] Even though as many as fourteen claimants put forward their claims to the title, the real contest was between John Balliol and Robert Bruce.[117] The Scottish magnates made a request to Edward to arbitrate in the dispute.[118] At Birgham, with the prospect of a personal union between the two realms, the question of suzerainty had not been of great importance to Edward. Now he insisted that, if he were to settle the contest, he had to be fully recognised as Scotland's feudal overlord.[119] The Scots were reluctant to make such a concession, and replied that since the country had no king, no one had the authority to make this decision.[120] This problem was circumvented when the competitors agreed that the realm would be handed over to Edward until a rightful heir had been found.[121] After a lengthy hearing, a decision was made in favour of John Balliol on 17 November 1292.[122]
Even after Balliol's accession, Edward still continued to assert his authority over Scotland. Against the objections of the Scots, he agreed to hear appeals on cases ruled on by the court of guardians that had governed Scotland during the interregnum.[123] A further provocation came in a case brought by Macduff, son of Malcolm, Earl of Fife, where Edward demanded Balliol appear in person before the English Parliament to answer the charges.[124] This the Scottish king did, but the final straw was Edward's demand that the Scottish magnates provide military service in the war against France.[125] This was unacceptable; the Scots instead formed an alliance with France, and launched an unsuccessful attack on Carlisle.[126] Edward responded by invading Scotland in 1296, and taking the town of Berwick in a particularly bloody attack.[127] At the Battle of Dunbar, Scottish resistance was effectively crushed.[128] Edward confiscated the Stone of Destiny – the Scottish coronation stone – and brought it to Westminster, deposed Balliol and placed him in the Tower of London, and installed Englishmen to govern the country.[6] The campaign had been a great success, but the English triumph would eventually prove deceptive.[129

This is bascically the start of all the dis-harmony towards the English and William Wallace showed that true Scottish spirirt by fighting for the cause, which we have witnessed in the many years following.

[Woody1985]

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The Great Cause
The relationship between the nations of England and Scotland by the 1280s was one of relatively harmonious coexistence.[111] The issue of homage did not reach the same level of controversy as it did in Wales; in 1278 King Alexander III of Scotland paid homage to Edward I, but apparently only for the lands he held of Edward in England.[112] Problems arose only with the Scottish succession crisis of the early 1290s. In the years from 1281 to 1284, Alexander's two sons and one daughter died in quick succession. Then, in 1286, King Alexander died himself, leaving as heir to the throne of Scotland Margaret, born in 1283 to Alexander's daughter Margaret and King Eric II of Norway.[113] By the Treaty of Birgham it was agreed that Margaret should marry King Edward's son Edward of Carnarvon, though Scotland would remain free of English overlordship.[114]

19th-century drawing of the Stone of Destiny. The Scottish coronation stone remained at Westminster until it was returned to Scotland in 1996.


Margaret, known as the Maid of Norway, sailed from Norway for Scotland in the autumn of 1290, but fell ill on the way and died in Orkney.[115] This left the country without an obvious heir, and led to the succession dispute known to history as the Great Cause.[116] Even though as many as fourteen claimants put forward their claims to the title, the real contest was between John Balliol and Robert Bruce.[117] The Scottish magnates made a request to Edward to arbitrate in the dispute.[118] At Birgham, with the prospect of a personal union between the two realms, the question of suzerainty had not been of great importance to Edward. Now he insisted that, if he were to settle the contest, he had to be fully recognised as Scotland's feudal overlord.[119] The Scots were reluctant to make such a concession, and replied that since the country had no king, no one had the authority to make this decision.[120] This problem was circumvented when the competitors agreed that the realm would be handed over to Edward until a rightful heir had been found.[121] After a lengthy hearing, a decision was made in favour of John Balliol on 17 November 1292.[122]
Even after Balliol's accession, Edward still continued to assert his authority over Scotland. Against the objections of the Scots, he agreed to hear appeals on cases ruled on by the court of guardians that had governed Scotland during the interregnum.[123] A further provocation came in a case brought by Macduff, son of Malcolm, Earl of Fife, where Edward demanded Balliol appear in person before the English Parliament to answer the charges.[124] This the Scottish king did, but the final straw was Edward's demand that the Scottish magnates provide military service in the war against France.[125] This was unacceptable; the Scots instead formed an alliance with France, and launched an unsuccessful attack on Carlisle.[126] Edward responded by invading Scotland in 1296, and taking the town of Berwick in a particularly bloody attack.[127] At the Battle of Dunbar, Scottish resistance was effectively crushed.[128] Edward confiscated the Stone of Destiny – the Scottish coronation stone – and brought it to Westminster, deposed Balliol and placed him in the Tower of London, and installed Englishmen to govern the country.[6] The campaign had been a great success, but the English triumph would eventually prove deceptive.[129

This is bascically the start of all the dis-harmony towards the English and William Wallace showed that true Scottish spirirt by fighting for the cause, which we have witnessed in the many years following.

Is this similar to looking after our north sea interests because we can't be trusted to look after it ourselves?

[Future17]

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..brown men, Lads in England football shirts, posh dafties in fancy dress, beardie blokes with 70's style Scotland tops, lassies waving union flags and muscle bound crazies.

All supporting Andy Murray like their lives depended on it.

That's a good thing, yeah?

Could Scottish folk be as warm hearted towards an English sportsman?

Rob Jones?

Steven Fletcher?

Chris Hogg?

I could go on.......

[Hibbyradge]

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I
As for Murray, he'll never view himself as "British" I don't think. He wears his patriotism on his sleeve (literally) and last night, seemed to chose a small section of fans within the crowd who appeared Scottish (with the wearing of Scotland tops, painted faces etc).

An inconvenient truth.

[Woody1985]

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An inconvenient truth.

Or a PR exercise designed to generate more income for everyone.

I don't mind him representing himself as British TBH. I don't mind British sportsmen and women. Just don't want them to win at football. They can think what they want about is TBH.

[ancient hibee]

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Behave yourself - she was his mother.




F1's interesting in this context because you can have a British driver in a foreign car competing against a foreign driver in a British car.

Which one is it more acceptable to support?

(And if reports are true, you also have an English Chief Executive in Nazi jackboots and.... No, this is a family forum.)


I've always tended to want the British driver to win.

But I've always tended to favour Ferrari as a manufacturer.

I was reading an article by Stirling Moss(now 79)-in 1945 there was no driving test so he went to the post office with five bob and got his driving licence-a couple of weeks later he went back with ten bob and got his international racing licence and that was him on his way.i always liked his attitude-a drink,a fag,a blonde and a race if he could fit it into the weekend.

[Hibs Class]

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Think you answered your own question there.


The slomo replay of that had Johnny Mac briefly speechless, it was that effective.

Slomo + widescreen tv + HD =

[Gatecrasher]

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F1's interesting in this context because you can have a British driver in a foreign car competing against a foreign driver in a British car.

Which one is it more acceptable to support?

(And if reports are true, you also have an English Chief Executive in Nazi jackboots and.... No, this is a family forum.)


I've always tended to want the British driver to win.

But I've always tended to favour Ferrari as a manufacturer.

i usually go for Mclaren but i like hamiltons style so its perfect at the moment with him being at Mclaren

as Mclaren are going no where this season its jenson button, Im glad he has got the break he's had. As for the teams, most of them are british whether they like to admit it or not (red bull ) saying that theres not anyone in F1 i dont like but there are teams i like to see better than others

[lobster]

Watching Wimbledon as the camera pans over the spectators it becomes very clear - they are the Class Enemy and Nationalism is poison.

[jc1]

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Is this similar to looking after our north sea interests because we can't be trusted to look after it ourselves?

That didn't help their PR image in Scotland did it, yes lets get the country deep in debt and when we discover loads of oil off our coast line, lets pay off all our debtors and sod Scotland and all it's needs.

They still think they have an empire and are feared all over the world, what they don't realise is that most people in the world can't stand the English and all they stand for.

OK rant over...........count to 10, breathe deeply and make myself a coffee.