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The bit about Lennon having the benefit of being able to view matches from the directors box gave me a wee laugh :greengrin
Me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
enjoyed that. Excellent news. Playing Champions League football next season will help even more. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
Viva Le Tash!
Seems to be good news when you consider that the McGinn fee is not included (although players coming in costs must be offset against that).
One word of caution - when crowds are at a record level, there is not a huge surplus there, so other income streams such as HSL become ever more vital.
What do you mean by huge surplus? Not sure if it’s too early - but I can’t see any reason why record crowds would be a negative?Quote:
Originally Posted by wallpaperman
Positive reading overall, but yeah, thought very much the same though.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallpaperman
Wonder why they mentioned that in this particular statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
Hopefully this will put to rest the doubts of dome who were concerned that we would be posting record profits and storing cash for infrastructure projects
The club backed the manager strongly to get us out the Championship and continue to back him strongly whilst reducing the wages to income ratio to more sustainable levels.
As an earlier poster stated though there is not much room to grow income from attendances much further and it is as they say critical that initiatives such as HSL continue to blossom
If folk cant see the tangible (on the field) benefits of donating to HSL now I doubt they ever will
That’s why board trying to build up cash reserves. Basically a rainy day fund. Also, paid more money back to farmerQuote:
Originally Posted by wallpaperman
than we had to.
No I didn't mean that. What I was trying to say that as Easter Road is on average 90% full each week, there is not much room for revenue growth from ticket sales (until the corners are filled in! ).Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip
So, while any surplus is welcome, it's not a massive amount when crowds are at a record level.
Everything seems to be in a great position though, the club seems to be very well run at the moment, long may it continue.
I don’t understand your donating to HSL point?Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
Don't understand your stf comment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
We paid extra cash to farmer. If we hadn’t there would be more money. It’s in relation to post on modest profit etc with record crowdsQuote:
Originally Posted by DarlingtonHibee
If we want the team to progress and there isn't that much scope to increase attendances then where does the extra income required to do so come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
It needs to be from initiatives like HSL
We have cast iron guarantees that the monies raised through HSL goes into the football operation nothing else
Don't have the accounts yetQuote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
Where does it say we paid more than the contracted £500k back to STF?
We pay less money to STF than we would if we still had debt to the bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
Not seen the account, but I'm sure it's a fixed rate, interest rate agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
Interest free. Trying to get debt paid off quickerQuote:
Originally Posted by DarlingtonHibee
It's interest free, yes, so why would we want to pay it off more quickly, and reduce our spend on players?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
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Ask that question at AGMQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If it's correct, someone should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
I haven't seen the full report yet. Does it say that we did repay more than the contracted amount?
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Genuinely curious not saying you are wrong but where does it say this in the accounts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
I don't yet have my copy.
I don’t have them yet. Also, made overpayments this financial year. This is information received from execs at ER. Strategy to clear debt quicker. We have a large cash pileQuote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
Ok thanks. I'll have a look at them tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
There are only 2 executive directors at the club, so that narrows down your sources. You might want to reword your post [emoji3]
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The only way I could see us doing that would be if HSL donations were running ahead of £500k pa and last I heard they weren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
The accounts will provide proof positive if this is the case or not.
I have my doubts.
Taking about the accounts just posted, not what has happened subsequently, the large cash pile you refer to is largely season ticket monies paid upfront.
It will be huge at the start of the season and dribble away to nothing in the month before the season ticket renewals go out for the following season.
There is not a cats chance in hell that these monies will be used to pay off STF at greater than the contracted rate.
I am often accused on here of being a board apologist but if anything other than excess HSL monies were being used to repay the debt to STF quicker than contracted I would regard that as a serious breach of undertaking / trust.
I don't think for a minute Hibs would do such a thing and could see no reason for them wanting to in the first place.
Quick q: was the Cummings transfer included in last year’s accounts, as it happened before the 30th June 2017?
Good advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I don’t know how to read accounts. Understand cash runs down as we pay wages over the season. But building a rainy day fund. Only sharing what’ told . Look forward to getting official confirmation what accounts show .Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
You make good points. Fans bringing in extra cash via shares. Record season ticket sales . All efforts should go on getting best players we can afford while paying of debt to holding company
Think the poster was talking about making overpayments on the loan to STFQuote:
Originally Posted by offshorehibby
My simplistic take on it is, currently we are exceeding our projected income so any excess is used to pay off STF quicker thus having more cash available in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by SallyCinnamon
I wouldn't see the point in doing that with an interest free loan though. I'd be surprised if Hibs have paid more than £500K to STF (unless someone has seen the actual accounts and I've missed this fact being verified!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojock
Or any surplus can be invested in the team, improving our competitiveness and leading to more profit in future years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojock
That would be my hopeQuote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Why would we do that? We need to keep increasing the quality of the team as much as possible to ensure that supporters want to keep coming to watch in (modern day) record numbers. The info around this is a bit vague but I would be very disappointed if Hibs No.1 priority is anything other than to keep this virtuous circle going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojock
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. Hopefully come January time we can shift a decent number of half season tickets in the South Stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallpaperman
You can look at it a couple of ways I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
It could be argued that when we are doing well and have near record turnover then it’s prudent to pay down debt (even interest free) at a higher rate. You build in a buffer for when things are maybe not so rosy in the future.
As our financial performance is directly related to our footballing performance then there is no certainty that we will continue to have as much cash coming in.
Either way I trust the board to do what they see as best for the long term.
So a wee bit in the black and monies from Europe to be added in for next years accounts, all in all a healthy club going in the right direction both on and off the pitch.
So, a member of the board told you that before the accounts are released to shareholders?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
Nothing new there, he's been doing it for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarlingtonHibee
Presumably this would only be on the premise that STF was willing to waive some the debt owed to him?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallpaperman
I hear what you are saying.
However, relegation played havoc with the club’s finances. If Hibs can maintain a level of consistency (for example, top 6 finishes as an absolute minimum for a number of seasons) it will have a positive cumulative effect.
TV money, commercial revenue etc would all be up, and perhaps we would feel the benefit from one off transfer fees etc.
Given that the debt is interest free (and cash in the bank still gains interest, albeit minimal), I don't see any advantage in repaying the debt in advance of what was agreed.
Unless they are trying to bring forward the day when the Club is totally debt free and control is passed to the new issue share holders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
I know there would be nothing stopping the payments continuing after control was passed, but I think a debt free Club would be far more attractive for any perspective group looking to take control in conjunction with HSL of course.
If its true that we did overpay our repayment to STF then this would be my take on it as well. If the history of football, never mind this club, tells us anything its that nothing lasts forever and I can see the prudence in Hibs reducing the club's debt while the money is there to do so. I wouldn't want to see us do so at the expense of the team, but if a decent balance can be found then I wouldn't be too down on the club for taking what could be a sensible approach in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
What worries me is the large number of ST holders who seem to be missing at every home game. E.G. The official crowd on Saturday was given as over 16,500 but I doubt it was any more than 15,000 in reality. This has been a common theme over the season so far and my question is, if these folk aren't turning up after buying a season ticket ( and I'm talking about the east here, not the FF lower ) then what guarantee is there that they will renew for next season?
I have a feeling that Hibs are looking at this with the same thought in mind and are far from convinced that this seasons ST sales will be matched next year, never mind exceeded. As others have pointed out, even if they are matched the scope to increase income from ST sales short of a big increase in prices has now become extremely limited and I think that would put making hay while the sun shines in the area of debt reduction at the top of their agenda.
I doubt it makes much difference with very little "friendly" debt.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
It was, but from various comments from NL, there will be more in this year's accounts, presumably add-ons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibees3_Sevco2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
I don't know about that. Debt to parent company was just over £ 3.5 million in the last accounts.
Nobody likes taking on other peoples debts when putting their own money into a new venture .
But the debt would be reflected in the price.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
On people not turning up, it’s not the same people every week. At most games, around 10% of season ticket holders can’t make it. That’s the same for all clubs and is perfectly normal. It doesn’t indicate sales are about to drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
There is no price other than the cost of the shares various parties have bought.
But they will be expected to promise additional funding for the Club if they want others to support their bid for control.
I hope you are right mate. Because the only comparable way to judge ST attendees is by looking at the big English clubs on MOTD rather than our own league it is a bit of a false picture, because most of them can fill empty ST seats with their buy back schemes, something we don't have a big enough demand to do on a regular basis, which means if one of our ST holders is a no show the seat remains empty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
So long as we maintain a decent top 3 challenge and do well in the Scottish cup the proof of the pudding will be when next seasons ST sales come around. If on the back of another relatively successful season and European qualification we sell less STs then this time then we will have to face the fact that the Scottish cup win feelgood factor was only ever going to be a temporary thing.
I get the feeling that Hibs attitude will be to hope for the feelgood factor to continue, but plan for the possibility that it wont.
I am one of the regular non season ticket none attenders. With my work i only manage 9 home league games this season, last season 8. I've had a season ticket in the East since they put seats in the old East and will continue buying.
HSL - tax efficient investment in The Hibs right? Ie not subject to VAT which is probably why the Hearts fincncial bods played the long game, kept their money instead of lining Vlads/administrators pockets. To then myatery benefit their spondoolies.
???..Me neither!Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras
We won't know until we see the accounts but personally I can see the appeal of paying off a bit more than we need to. We have invested very well at this point in the first team so we haven't scrimped on that front and we still are posting a profit. I think as some people say it's a good idea to get as much of the debt cleared as quickly as possible while life is great. So that should we ever find ourselves in the cesspit seasons reminiscent of the Calderwood and Fenlon type era then we have that extra cash available to us to try and dig us back into a competitive place.
As some one else said if we were clearly struggling on the park and not putting money into the team then I would have an issue with it.
I honestly never see Hibs going back to the Calderwood/Fenlon days until we need to find loads of money to rebuild the stadium again in 2060 by which time i will be potted heid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
Our debt with STF runs until 2025, I would like to see us pay STF £1 million of the McGinn money which would see us debt free by 2023.
I have massively enjoyed watching the team for the last 3 and a bit seasons. I think most fans will be the same and will continue to buy season tickets in massive numbers next season so long as the present regime remains in place.
I hope you're right. I know we made infrastructure improvements after the Golden Generation which is setting us up well now but you just never know what might happen. For what its worth I agree with you and would like to see us get debt free asap, just as long as it's not to the detriment of the team on the park.Quote:
Originally Posted by CMurdoch
You can get quite a bang for your buck with just a little cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
The impression i get is that Kamberi cost £100k, Mallan £150k and Horgan £150k.
I suspect we had to chuck £100k to Milligan as a signing on fee.
4 quality players for £500k
I think we will spend the same again next close season on another 4 players to complete the rebuilding job using part of the McGinn money.
Will definitely want to sign Efe up again and McLaren depending on how he plays this season against the transfer fee required. Possibly Bogdan.
A few old favourites will be out of contract and move on with a need to be replaced:
McGregor (retire due to chronic knee injury) Bartlay - getting on and not good enough on the ball for Lennon's liking.
Gray and Stevenson will perhaps get 1 year extensions. Thought Gray was gone but has done well this season.
Lennon will not rest and will leave as soon as things are not moving forward. I really see us being a very good team next season.
You're right some of the deals we've done for potentially very little cash is impressive. We just have to hope that next season we can replicate that.Quote:
Originally Posted by CMurdoch
It's amazing how you forget about the club doing bad deals. Signing guys on long deals on good wages that turn out to be pants or idiots like Stokes. That can knock the wheels off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
Stevie May looks like such a signing for Aberdeen at the moment.
Fans of other teams must be wondering how do we do it which is great as we always asked that about other teams. Long may it continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
Only Aberdeen and Hearts fans then. Fans of all the other clubs will correctly deduce that they could not afford those players anyway. The quality of the current squad is largely down to the fact that we are averaging 18k attendances now. That gives us a massive advantage over most clubs in the league which was not there before. If crowds drop, the quality of signings will drop again as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SallyCinnamon
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Aside from the financial mechanics, a big part of how we are doing this is Neil Lennon's reputation and contacts. A manager who is well known, has been there, seen it and done it and who through his career has developed extensive contacts among top players and managers alike is going to be far better placed to influence players to join us.Quote:
Originally Posted by SallyCinnamon
If I was STF I'd structure an interest free loan to be repaid at a fixed rate linked to revenue or profitability. If revenue/profit increases then the loan is repaid faster using the extra. Only fair. Maybe that's what is happening?Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
P.S. Other Cropleys' tuppence worths are available
That's what the accounts say is happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyisGod
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Maybe he is Tom Farmer?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Going by the updated wording in the note, I think that is roughly what has happened (£500K min + an extra amount linked to profit). :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyisGod
While I still believe Hibs would be better off keeping the money themselves if possible, it's certainly not an unreasonable stipulation for STF to have included.
Paying extra back to STF when we have a cash surplus would allow us to reduce payments when we have bigger cash commitments - wouldn't it? Having money on deposit doesn't earn you much these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancehibs
Sounds to me like a sensible thing to do - it's not as if STF will receive more than the £500k he loaned us.
The annual repayments will always be at least 500k. They were more than that last year, will be more this year, but won't be less until the loan is fully paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton
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Imagine the potential team we could build when the loan is repaid and we have an extra 500k to put into the footballing department.
We have sold more SeasonTickets this year than last Folk knew we were likely to loose McGinn ,Dylan and were hopefully we would get Allan back
That tells me Supports still want to back the Club and were confident we would bring in Quality replacements
Fans now though want us to play attractive football finish higher in League than last Season and qualify for Europe and if possible win a Cup
All possible at this stage
What's clear is that The Rangers will get stronger with each passing Transfer Window so therefore we do need to try and finish third this Season and ensure we stay above Hearts and Aberdeen
If we can do that this Season and increase H S L membership by another 500 between now and end of Season , hopefullyvwe can build on that each Season with 14 000 Season Ticket Holders next Season
That has to be the Aim and the Performance on Saturday deserved a bigger Crowd Although the South Lower was fuller than normal
I would agree it certainly gives us some advantage, but what shouldn't be forgotten is that compared to a good few Scottish clubs we also have a massive infrastructure to service and run. I would imagine the maintenance of Easter Road and running East Mains takes a reasonable amount out of our budget every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Like every Scottish club with the possible exception of Celtic we rely hugely on bums on seats … Our current upturn in income through the gate is not something Hibs can use in any long term planning IMO, mainly because it isn't based on a nationwide trend like the EPL is for example. Yes there is a modest overall increase in Premiership crowds, but our amazing upturn way exceeds that trend and its impossible to say for certain that that support would continue if the club had a barren season.
My take on it is that we will gradually lose a percentage of the feelgood support, even if we continue to perform well, as the novelty wears off and that if we have a bad season we will lose some more as the folk who only think a team is worth supporting if its doing well lose heart. The hope is that after that happens the hard core support who are prepared to stick with the club during the hard times goes from the pre 21/05/16 level of about 8,000 to a figure of about 11,000.
That is the sort of mindset I would have if I was running the club …. Though of course the aim would always be to work as hard as possible to keep growing the clubs support to the point where increasing the stadiums capacity became a no brainer and to be fair to the current incumbents I think that is what they are doing.
Will be interesting to see how much we pay back next year if this is the case, assuming the SJM money pushes us into serious profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The accounts suggest £655,100 for the year we are in. Whether that is based on the money we got for SJM, I'm not sure, but it would make sense if it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinribs
I imagine that quite a lotQuote:
Originally Posted by Centre Hawf
But it is still far less than the discrepancy between what FOH & HSL raise respectively
The remedy is in our hands today, whether we have the collective will to address it is the question
You are dead right BSEJVT I heard recently that there is more and more money pouring into FOH we really need to up our game with HSL
How do we know the amount over £500k has gone towards clearing off the outstanding debt, as opposed to going to STF company?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The loan is interest free; however could a clause have been entered that X amount of profit/turnover goes to STF company instead?
Hopefully I’ll be quickly put wrong.
The debt IS to STF's company.Quote:
Originally Posted by BouncerRoss
Quick enough? :greengrin
Understand that, not the point I was trying to make. Does the report include the balance of the debt?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yes, it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by BouncerRoss
2017 balance - £4,041,659
2018 balance - £3,481,655.
In other words, we paid £560,004 during the year. £60,004 more than we normally pay.
The accounts say that the loan is repayable by "...monthly instalments of £41,667 plus any accelerated annual payments triggered by the results of the company".
I read from that.. 12 x £41,667, plus a one-off payment of £60,000.
Great, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I'm surprised nobody from the ponzi scheme mob have not jumped on this overpayment and turned it into a new scandal.
Don't ****ing tell them [emoji849]Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
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Ach it will be fun especially for you picking big fat holes in their bollocks. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I hope that’s an euphemism 😱Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
They don’t know what to believe. On the one hand, they’ve heard we are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. On the other, we are making money and our owner is creaming off the profits into his back pocket.
Must be confusing for the poor wee yams.
So confusing in fact they have went into meltdown and kickback has went offline! Had a wee look to see if they had picked up on the extra contribution to farmer and it’s just an error message!Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
I recall that we were supposed to be building a full size indoor pitch at east mains, has there been any provision made for this in the accounts. Personally i think this should go ahead, and if its possible to rent it out to clubs who would find it beneficial to there needs. GGTTH. :nlgwa :aok:
There is no provision in there, nor a note to say that the club has committed to the work.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamsonsbairn
That's not to say it won't happen. It may well be in this year's budget. Might be a good question for the AGM.
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FWIW when discussing the potential of Safe Standing in a meeting with the club a couple of months back it was also confirmed that there would be a seven figure sum spent on East Mains over the next 18 months, therefore Safe Standing wasn’t a financial option or priority for the club at present.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamsonsbairn
missed the game on saturday and said to the missus that Hibs would probably run up a decent score as we made our way to the theQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Eri. Brken bone in my back and broken shoulder blade. Hope to be at ST Johnstone game and wil renew my tseason next year.
If there is evidence that it could generate revenue maybe. But most major infrastructure projects have knocked us back in terms of on field performance - at least in the short term. For me prioritising the team is essential at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamsonsbairn
big fat holes in their bollocks. :wink:[/QUOTE]
That would need seeing to urgently....
They're still trying to work out what a ponzi scheme actually is.[emoji6]Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
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An indoor pitch at east mains is essential for our squad to train during treacherous winters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyhorse