James Fowler & Ian Murray

[Lago]

Notice on the BBC Scotland Sports web site comments from both
1) Ian Murray saying Hibs have always been a wee bit short of quality

2) Fowler quoted as saying Scottish top tier on the same level as leaque 1 in England although Scottish clubs tend to compare themseves to Championship level.

Think the 2 of them lack a little class considering what Scottish football has given them both.

[Jim44]

Nippy sweeties. :rolleyes:

[Dancehibs]

Notice on the BBC Scotland Sports web site comments from both
1) Ian Murray saying Hibs have always been a wee bit short of quality

2) Fowler quoted as saying Scottish top tier on the same level as leaque 1 in England although Scottish clubs tend to compare themseves to Championship level.

Think the 2 of them lack a little class considering what Scottish football has given them both.

proably fair assessment. Top 6 in spl I’d think could stay up in the championship. Bottom 6 yeah a third tier of English fitba

[Since90+2]

Notice on the BBC Scotland Sports web site comments from both
1) Ian Murray saying Hibs have always been a wee bit short of quality

2) Fowler quoted as saying Scottish top tier on the same level as leaque 1 in England although Scottish clubs tend to compare themseves to Championship level.

Think the 2 of them lack a little class considering what Scottish football has given them both.

Probably not far away from the truth I'd imagine.

[hibIBZ]

But then we have the massive “if we had their tv money” argument. If hibs has the same tv money as teams in the English championship, I doubt we would of sold Mcginn, or demanded more, we could also offered McGeouch way more than we did. It’s not really a comparison imo.

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45216901

Murray is really praising Lennon in this article, saying he has got the max from the squad and that Hibs need more investment in playing resources.

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45216901

Murray is really praising Lennon in this article, saying he has got the max from the squad and that Hibs need more investment in playing resources.

That’s how I read it too

[JimBHibees]

Ridiculous comment by Murray. Does he include himself in the lack of quality comment?

[cleanyman]

Incredibly tiresome.

Dundee went down last year and roasted a team from league 1. The Scottish Premiership is a step up as described by a Motherwell player today.

He's at Sunderland so he has to say that. League 1 football is dross...they'd probably beat Livi or Hamilton but look at the size of the clubs.

[Sir David Gray]

If Hibs had the English TV revenue we would be a Premiership club, simple as that.

No-one will convince me that we're a smaller club than the likes of Huddersfield, Bournemouth and Brighton.

It's totally pointless to say that we would be League One standard in England. Maybe we would but when we're on a similar financial footing as League Two clubs in England then if we're League One standard then that's pretty good.

[Wilson]

Ridiculous comment by Murray. Does he include himself in the lack of quality comment?

Wasn't Murray quoted prior to the tie as having scouted Molde for us and saying we had nothing to worry about? I don't recall him mentioning our lack of quality or how it would be a problem for us.

His comments are reactionary. He is no expert. Just another rent-a-gob ex-player.

[Allant1981]

murray is a failed ex manager, was bang average as a player as well so would take what he says with a pinch of salt

[where'stheslope]

If Hibs had the English TV revenue we would be a Premiership club, simple as that.

No-one will convince me that we're a smaller club than the likes of Huddersfield, Bournemouth and Brighton.

It's totally pointless to say that we would be League One standard in England. Maybe we would but when we're on a similar financial footing as League Two clubs in England then if we're League One standard then that's pretty good.

Starting to sound like Celtic and Rangers, in my opinion!

We have little or no chance of ever getting a bigger share of TV monies, as the EPL are the same as the Uglies,we are the biggest and the best, so we get the most money!!!

[Lago]

That’s how I read it too
I don't at best it is a back handed complement to mention Lennon before saying Hibs have always been short of quality. Just my interpretation.

[Lago]

:top marks
If Hibs had the English TV revenue we would be a Premiership club, simple as that.

No-one will convince me that we're a smaller club than the likes of Huddersfield, Bournemouth and Brighton.

It's totally pointless to say that we would be League One standard in England. Maybe we would but when we're on a similar financial footing as League Two clubs in England then if we're League One standard then that's pretty good.

[Dancehibs]

If Hibs had the English TV revenue we would be a Premiership club, simple as that.

No-one will convince me that we're a smaller club than the likes of Huddersfield, Bournemouth and Brighton.

It's totally pointless to say that we would be League One standard in England. Maybe we would but when we're on a similar financial footing as League Two clubs in England then if we're League One standard then that's pretty good.
You are not describing reality. It’s a bit like if your Aunty had .... she would be your uncle. Teams like Hamilton and livvy would probably be none league in England. Not sure crowds Brighton and Huddersfield get ? Comparable with us ? Just saw a tweet 15 years ago today we beat them in. Derby at ER. Crowd £14k

[LancsHibs]

Notice on the BBC Scotland Sports web site comments from both
1) Ian Murray saying Hibs have always been a wee bit short of quality

2) Fowler quoted as saying Scottish top tier on the same level as leaque 1 in England although Scottish clubs tend to compare themseves to Championship level.

Think the 2 of them lack a little class considering what Scottish football has given them both.

Murray is probably right, we are a wee bit short on quality otherwise we would have beaten Molde.
As for SPL being same level as English league 1 again probably right the average club in our league is probably paying similar wages to league 1. Though that is due to Scottish football finances, Hibs are league 1 in comparison to player recruiting but are a much bigger club, if you look at crowd sizes, we had an average crowd of 18100 last season which was higher than all but one League 1 club last season (Bradford) and higher than 10 Championship clubs (Reading, Ipswich, Bolton, Hull, QPR, Preston, Barnsley, Millwall, Brentford, Burton)
If we played in the English league on a level playing field we would be a good Championship club with a good crack at their premier league

[Keyser Sauzee]

Notice on the BBC Scotland Sports web site comments from both
1) Ian Murray saying Hibs have always been a wee bit short of quality

2) Fowler quoted as saying Scottish top tier on the same level as leaque 1 in England although Scottish clubs tend to compare themseves to Championship level.

Think the 2 of them lack a little class considering what Scottish football has given them both.

I don’t see how either comment is lacking in class, it’s just their opinion which the bbc have asked for. Does it even really matter??

[andybev1]

as long as we get shafted from sky and have to compete on an uneven playing field we will continue to struggle. Why can the teams in the premier not get together about this (and the supporters), maybe with political help, and embarrass the companies doing this to us. I would also like to find out if this is a national thing, i.e. are the people making the decisions as to how the money is awarded are English as that is criminal.

Nothing more infuriating to me about football than this subject.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The only comparison that is fair is surely with a similar sized country with similar TV revenue. Not sure what that country is though.

[Just Alf]

The only comparison that is fair is surely with a similar sized country with similar TV revenue. Not sure what that country is though.Its a good point , I remember it being mentioned before and it was something like Norway or Belgium etc and they actually had less international coverage.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[SouthMoroccoStu]

You get roughly £170m a season in the premier league

Give any SPL team this amount of cash and then we’d see how well they’d do in Europe

[jacomo]

You get roughly £170m a season in the premier league

Give any SPL team this amount of cash and then we’d see how well they’d do in Europe


We’d be brilliant.

[GloryGlory]

Notice on the BBC Scotland Sports web site comments from both
1) Ian Murray saying Hibs have always been a wee bit short of quality

2) Fowler quoted as saying Scottish top tier on the same level as leaque 1 in England although Scottish clubs tend to compare themseves to Championship level.

Think the 2 of them lack a little class considering what Scottish football has given them both.

1) Murray said Molde were nothing to worry about.

2) I wonder how well the Championship clubs would compare with the SPFL if they had to manage on an SPFL-style TV deal.

[Lago]

Murray is probably right, we are a wee bit short on quality otherwise we would have beaten Molde.
As for SPL being same level as English league 1 again probably right the average club in our league is probably paying similar wages to league 1. Though that is due to Scottish football finances, Hibs are league 1 in comparison to player recruiting but are a much bigger club, if you look at crowd sizes, we had an average crowd of 18100 last season which was higher than all but one League 1 club last season (Bradford) and higher than 10 Championship clubs (Reading, Ipswich, Bolton, Hull, QPR, Preston, Barnsley, Millwall, Brentford, Burton)
If we played in the English league on a level playing field we would be a good Championship club with a good crack at their premier league
He said hibs have always been short of quality.

[GreenArmyyy!]

I’ll be honest, think the comments towards Murray lack a bit of class here. Nothing wrong with what he said.

[PapillonVert]

Wasn't Murray quoted prior to the tie as having scouted Molde for us and saying we had nothing to worry about? I don't recall him mentioning our lack of quality or how it would be a problem for us.

His comments are reactionary. He is no expert. Just another rent-a-gob ex-player.

Yes. I remember that.

I then found his subsequent statement strange.

[Sir David Gray]

You are not describing reality. It’s a bit like if your Aunty had .... she would be your uncle. Teams like Hamilton and livvy would probably be none league in England. Not sure crowds Brighton and Huddersfield get ? Comparable with us ? Just saw a tweet 15 years ago today we beat them in. Derby at ER. Crowd £14k

Why not?

Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are all big enough to say that if they had the financial backing that they get in England then they would be Premiership clubs along with Celtic and Rangers.

[Babyshamble]

Sportsound have a history of getting "pundits" in when they are looking for a job.comments should be taken with a pinch of salt.nothing too see here.move on.Muppets the pair of them.

[lord bunberry]

If Hibs had the English TV revenue we would be a Premiership club, simple as that.

No-one will convince me that we're a smaller club than the likes of Huddersfield, Bournemouth and Brighton.

It's totally pointless to say that we would be League One standard in England. Maybe we would but when we're on a similar financial footing as League Two clubs in England then if we're League One standard then that's pretty good.
Exactly it’s a completely pointless comparison. If we had the money the top flight clubs in England have we’d be as competitive as most of the EPL teams. The thing people need to remember is that money doesn’t make you a big club, it makes you a small club with money to spend. You can then establish yourself and grow and become a bigger club, but the money alone doesn’t do that.

[lord bunberry]

You are not describing reality. It’s a bit like if your Aunty had .... she would be your uncle. Teams like Hamilton and livvy would probably be none league in England. Not sure crowds Brighton and Huddersfield get ? Comparable with us ? Just saw a tweet 15 years ago today we beat them in. Derby at ER. Crowd £14k
That’s completely missing the point though. The reason would be non league is that they don’t have access to the funds that clubs down south have. It’s also a bit disingenuous to use the worst team in the spl as an example.

[CLASS OF 72 -73]

I’ll be honest, think the comments towards Murray lack a bit of class here. Nothing wrong with what he said.

Might have something to do with Hibee grown players in particular and the rest, moving to the Huns and I make no apologies in agreeing. Guys like Thomson Murray and Cummings while their contribution is respected I can't feel the same about them.

[CMurdoch]

The titles of both stories are misleading clickbait.
What is said by both is plucked out of context and not really a story.

The real story as always is our horrific TV deal.

[McD]

as long as we get shafted from sky and have to compete on an uneven playing field we will continue to struggle. Why can the teams in the premier not get together about this (and the supporters), maybe with political help, and embarrass the companies doing this to us. I would also like to find out if this is a national thing, i.e. are the people making the decisions as to how the money is awarded are English as that is criminal.

Nothing more infuriating to me about football than this subject.


Yes, it’s a machevellian scheme by the English and broadcasting companies to keep Scottish football down, whilst we fight the good fight against the evil empires..... :rolleyes:


we get shafted by our own powers that be, the men at the top of the SFA and SPFL who continually talk our game down, talk about ‘armageddon’, don’t strive for better deals, are only focussed on and bend over backwards to suit the old firm, and aren’t interested in creating a more competitive league in case it upsets the Glasgow 2.

Sky, BT, premier sport, etc, are commercial companies, who will buy a product for as low a price they can, that’s their professional duty. The BBC are a slightly different proposition, but with only a finite amount of money available to them, will give as little as they can to Scottish football who are only too willing to sell themselves short, whilst comparatively the well marketed and highly self valued English premiership demand and receive more.

These organisations aren’t due us anything, they offered a price that our administrators accepted -instead of directing your anger at companies and the English, try looking at the people (mostly Scottish) at the top of Scottish football as the culprits of this situation.

Heres a small example of what I mean. On the last day of the respective seasons, Barcelona were beaten 5-4, Spurs won 5-4, Hibs and rangers drew 5-5. Guess which leagues (and respective press) were proclaiming brilliant swashbuckling entertainment, and which were describing the match as a shambles, defensive disasters, and doom and gloom?

[lucky]

We should not be concerned about what standard our league is. We should be celebrating that our football is the most watched per head of population in Europe. Fans are turning up in big numbers to watch the 5 biggest clubs in our country. This year could see our league become the most competitive it’s been in years. As fans we need to stop looking across the border as the English leagues are completely different to ours because of TV money. Maybe if Scottish football fans stopped there tv subscription to Sky and BT then the tv companies might take notice.

[Austinho]

Yes, it’s a machevellian scheme by the English and broadcasting companies to keep Scottish football down, whilst we fight the good fight against the evil empires..... :rolleyes:

You joke, but it does seem Sky Sports after the Setanta deal and spat the dummy, deliberately kicked our game into the dirt https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/exclusive-scottish-football-no-longer-10130604.amp


TV anchorman Richard Keys remembers when the order came through to “shut down Scottish football - it no longer exists," after the dispute between satellite giants Sky TV and Roger Mitchell.

“It’s a crying shame the way Scottish football is being treated. In fact it’s beyond a crying shame – it’s a disgrace.”

“Vic put something like £60m on the table and the response was, ‘Come back to me when you’re serious’. Vic withdrew the offer and overnight he made it clear we were to stop talking about Scottish football on Sky Sports News which was a disgrace in itself.

“The instruction was, ‘Scottish football doesn’t exist. Shut it down. We don’t talk about it, we’re not interested in it until they come back to the table on our terms’.

[B.H.F.C]

We should not be concerned about what standard our league is. We should be celebrating that our football is the most watched per head of population in Europe. Fans are turning up in big numbers to watch the 5 biggest clubs in our country. This year could see our league become the most competitive it’s been in years. As fans we need to stop looking across the border as the English leagues are completely different to ours because of TV money. Maybe if Scottish football fans stopped there tv subscription to Sky and BT then the tv companies might take notice.

I don’t think Scottish fans cancelling Sky/BT would be beneficial whatsoever. Nobody would really take any notice and if it did happen, and Sky/BT stopped putting the money in that they do, we’d be even worse off. And, even if it’s no popular to say it with some folk, I enjoy watching English football as well.

Agree with the rest of the post though. There is a lot of good things about Scottish football at the moment and the constant comparisons to England are a bit irrelevant really, given the difference in finances.

[JimBHibees]

Yes, it’s a machevellian scheme by the English and broadcasting companies to keep Scottish football down, whilst we fight the good fight against the evil empires..... :rolleyes:


we get shafted by our own powers that be, the men at the top of the SFA and SPFL who continually talk our game down, talk about ‘armageddon’, don’t strive for better deals, are only focussed on and bend over backwards to suit the old firm, and aren’t interested in creating a more competitive league in case it upsets the Glasgow 2.

Sky, BT, premier sport, etc, are commercial companies, who will buy a product for as low a price they can, that’s their professional duty. The BBC are a slightly different proposition, but with only a finite amount of money available to them, will give as little as they can to Scottish football who are only too willing to sell themselves short, whilst comparatively the well marketed and highly self valued English premiership demand and receive more.

These organisations aren’t due us anything, they offered a price that our administrators accepted -instead of directing your anger at companies and the English, try looking at the people (mostly Scottish) at the top of Scottish football as the culprits of this situation.

Heres a small example of what I mean. On the last day of the respective seasons, Barcelona were beaten 5-4, Spurs won 5-4, Hibs and rangers drew 5-5. Guess which leagues (and respective press) were proclaiming brilliant swashbuckling entertainment, and which were describing the match as a shambles, defensive disasters, and doom and gloom?

Fantastic post.

[Phil MaGlass]

I actually think SKY are missing a trick here, what with the game up here getting more fans through the gates and teams like Hibs, Dons and dare I say it huns putting a better product on the pitch, the game in Scotland is on an upward spiral, with more investment in Scottish fitba SKY could be on a winner. Our game is one of the biggest attended on average in Europe, surely putting live games with full stadiums is more attractive to SKY or other broadcasters than showing half empty to empty stadiums. :confused:

[G B Young]

The perception of Scottish football down south remains that it's pretty c*** if what this Motherwell player says is anything to go by:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45218801

He'd come from League One and assumed the Scottish top flight would be a doddle.

Perhaps more interesting when assessing what Scottish football's true level is compared to England were John McGinn's comments about opting for Villa rather than Celtic. He said it's easy to get into a comfort zone in Scottish football and he chose Villa over Celtic because he's "ambitious". I think while the quality of the lower leagues in England may not necessarily be a great deal higher than our top flight, the fact you're playing a far greater variety of teams keeps the game fresher and arguably more interesting. Hence my long-standing backing for a UK league, but I'm aware that's not a view shared by many on here.

[Lago]

The perception of Scottish football down south remains that it's pretty c*** if what this Motherwell player says is anything to go by:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45218801

He'd come from League One and assumed the Scottish top flight would be a doddle.

Perhaps more interesting when assessing what Scottish football's true level is compared to England were John McGinn's comments about opting for Villa rather than Celtic. He said it's easy to get into a comfort zone in Scottish football and he chose Villa over Celtic because he's "ambitious". I think while the quality of the lower leagues in England may not necessarily be a great deal higher than our top flight, the fact you're playing a far greater variety of teams keeps the game fresher and arguably more interesting. Hence my long-standing backing for a UK league, but I'm aware that's not a view shared by many on here.
Shared by me!

[cleanyman]

Better than what we just witnessed between Cardiff and Newcastle anyway

Wow

[Since90+2]

I actually think SKY are missing a trick here, what with the game up here getting more fans through the gates and teams like Hibs, Dons and dare I say it huns putting a better product on the pitch, the game in Scotland is on an upward spiral, with more investment in Scottish fitba SKY could be on a winner. Our game is one of the biggest attended on average in Europe, surely putting live games with full stadiums is more attractive to SKY or other broadcasters than showing half empty to empty stadiums. :confused:

There's only six teams that get decent crowds though. The other half play to crowds of about 4000 or less.

[jgl07]

You are not describing reality. It’s a bit like if your Aunty had .... she would be your uncle. Teams like Hamilton and livvy would probably be none league in England. Not sure crowds Brighton and Huddersfield get ? Comparable with us ? Just saw a tweet 15 years ago today we beat them in. Derby at ER. Crowd £14k
Brighton get (capacity?) crowds of over 30,000 most weeks.

Huddersfield pull in 24,000+ crowds which I assume are capacity.

[Sir David Gray]

I actually think SKY are missing a trick here, what with the game up here getting more fans through the gates and teams like Hibs, Dons and dare I say it huns putting a better product on the pitch, the game in Scotland is on an upward spiral, with more investment in Scottish fitba SKY could be on a winner. Our game is one of the biggest attended on average in Europe, surely putting live games with full stadiums is more attractive to SKY or other broadcasters than showing half empty to empty stadiums. :confused:

Quite a few teams in the Scottish Premiership play at stadiums which are mainly empty.

This is how full each club's home stadium was last season based on the average home gates.

Rangers - 96%
Celtic - 92%
Hearts - 91%
Hibs - 88%
Aberdeen - 70%
Ross County - 70%
Hamilton - 58%
Dundee - 50%
Partick Thistle - 47%
Motherwell - 41%
St Johnstone - 36%
Kilmarnock - 29%

The promotion of Livingston won't do much to help that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The perception of Scottish football down south remains that it's pretty c*** if what this Motherwell player says is anything to go by:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45218801

He'd come from League One and assumed the Scottish top flight would be a doddle.

Perhaps more interesting when assessing what Scottish football's true level is compared to England were John McGinn's comments about opting for Villa rather than Celtic. He said it's easy to get into a comfort zone in Scottish football and he chose Villa over Celtic because he's "ambitious". I think while the quality of the lower leagues in England may not necessarily be a great deal higher than our top flight, the fact you're playing a far greater variety of teams keeps the game fresher and arguably more interesting. Hence my long-standing backing for a UK league, but I'm aware that's not a view shared by many on here.

If there is any justification to a UK league its one big selling point for Scottish fans and players would be the variety … There's barely a club in Scotland's top two divisions I haven't seen Hibs play at least 5 times and most of them considerably more than that, well over 40 or 50 times in fact.

IMO its a fair assessment to say that Scotland's top 5 clubs would at least be competitive in the English championship, it would be six if Dundee Utd weren't such a basket case, with the rest competitive in league 1. With the sort of investment pumped into them as the likes of Watford, Brighton, AFC Bournemouth and Swansea for example there is absolutely no doubt that Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and especially Celtic and Sevco would at least be potential EPL clubs.

But in all honesty this comparing our league to English leagues is purely an academic exercise …. in reality nobody should give a rats ass how Hibs or any other Scottish club measures up to Brentford, Darlington, Portsmouth or dirty Leeds on the park, because they aren't our direct rivals, when there is a UK league they will get my undivided attention.

The time to kick off on this subject is when some no mark tries to say that some poxy EFL club like Peterborough for example is a better 'club' than Hibs because they have more money to spend … richer, maybe, but better? …. never in a million years.

As for what the Motherwell player has to say … I saw on the Steve Sidwell thread somebody trot out the old 'he would rip up our league' chatter …. oh really? ….. If I recall correctly the Scottish Premier league hasn't exactly been all that productive as a retirement home for washed up EFL / EPL has beens.