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Hibbyradge
23-02-2018, 09:14 AM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't readily change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?

My_Wife_Camille
23-02-2018, 09:16 AM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?
Griffiths probably.

JimBHibees
23-02-2018, 09:18 AM
Scott Allan did brilliantly for Hibs the last time he was here, why not again. His talent is unquestionable.

Hibbyradge
23-02-2018, 09:19 AM
Griffiths probably.

I understand why you say that, but his career has actually been fairly linear.

He didn't make it at Wolves, but he's been successful everywhere else.

Hiber-nation
23-02-2018, 09:22 AM
He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.



With respect, that's pish :greengrin

Hibbyradge
23-02-2018, 09:24 AM
With respect, that's pish :greengrin

I'm quoting others.

Hiber-nation
23-02-2018, 09:25 AM
I'm quoting others.

Sorry, that wasn't obvious. I haven't read the Scott Allan thread if that makes any difference.

My_Wife_Camille
23-02-2018, 09:29 AM
I understand why you say that, but his career has actually been fairly linear.

He didn't make it at Wolves, but he's been successful everywhere else.
You're right, he hasn't failed anywhere. I was more answering the "Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential" question I think.

I think Griffiths has done that his whole career

oldbutdim
23-02-2018, 09:35 AM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't readily change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?

I don't remember that.

Was he not just booked for shouting at Joe McLaughlin after a misplaced pass? It seemed that it went on for weeks right after we signed him 'one booking means a lengthy ban' and he got away with a few meaty challenges in games before a soft booking for a wee shouting match with a team mate.

Hibbyradge
23-02-2018, 09:36 AM
I don't remember that.

Was he not just booked for shouting at Joe McLaughlin after a misplaced pass? It seemed that it went on for weeks right after we signed him 'one booking means a lengthy ban' and he got away with a few meaty challenges in games before a soft booking for a wee shouting match with a team mate.

That's pretty much my memory although I thought he had been squaring up to JM.

SirDavidsNapper
23-02-2018, 10:05 AM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't readily change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?

Scott Allan won the divisions player of the season with us first time around and has been a standout in his two appearances since coming back. Cynic is correct.

JeMeSouviens
23-02-2018, 10:16 AM
That's pretty much my memory although I thought he had been squaring up to JM.

Yep, it was more than shouting, there was a bit pf pushing and shoving as well. He didn't get sent off though, it was just a booking.

keep the faith
23-02-2018, 12:45 PM
I don't really get where you are going hibbyradge. That's two threads you are on at the moment making this case against anyone getting excited about scott Allan.

He was brilliant in his one season with us and turned our team upside down for the better in only two games back. He has gone on record to say how happy he is to be back and the joy in his game and work rate matches this.

Why would you not be happy about this? I really hope Leanne is already working on a way to keep him and build the team around him.

lapsedhibee
23-02-2018, 12:52 PM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't readily change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?

Paul Hartley didn't fit at Hibs, but did well elsewhere. Not too much of a stretch to think that Scott Allan could be the reverse of that. Didn't he impress at Dundee United? :dunno:

basehibby
23-02-2018, 01:03 PM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't readily change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?


You're right that footballers don't readilly change, but I don't recall Scott Allan doing anything wrong first time round at Hibs beyond the sin of ambition. Bigger clubs came calling and he wanted to take the money and/or believed he was ready for a bigger stage. He went and we got a fee - some fans took the hump but being long in the tooth and having seen it all before I didn't think all that much of it.

The move to Celtic didn't work out well for him as he's played precious little football this last few years. Now he's back at Hibs, his interviews seem to indicate a lesson has been learned (as well as perhaps some paychecks banked?) and he's expressed an over-arching desire to play and enjoy his football here at a club which genuinely seems to be a good fit for his talents. I hope that's not just bluster and he genuinely does see a future at Hibs beyond the next enquiry from some more glamorous destination.

Regardless though, the way I see it right now is that Scott Allan is good for Hibs and Hibs is good for Scott Allan, and the result is some great eye-catching football - long may it continue and I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it.

Bostonhibby
23-02-2018, 01:19 PM
Was thinking of suggesting Craig Levein, but in his case it was the other way round. Peaked at Cowdenbeath and won F all since.:na na:

eastmainsmsh
23-02-2018, 03:30 PM
Tony Cascarino decent for millwall terrible at celtic and Chelsea but goals galore at Marseille and Nancy

Hibbyradge
23-02-2018, 03:49 PM
I don't really get where you are going hibbyradge. That's two threads you are on at the moment making this case against anyone getting excited about scott Allan.

He was brilliant in his one season with us and turned our team upside down for the better in only two games back. He has gone on record to say how happy he is to be back and the joy in his game and wirk rate matches this.

Why would you not be happy about this? I really hope Leanne is already working on a way to keep him and build the team around him.

I am extremely happy with how he has performed so far and I really want him to keep producing more of the same.

I've had so many horrible disappointments with Hibs in the past, maybe I'm just trying to insulate myself from any further disappointment. You know, "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst".

Stevie Reid
23-02-2018, 04:02 PM
You're right that footballers don't readilly change, but I don't recall Scott Allan doing anything wrong first time round at Hibs beyond the sin of ambition. Bigger clubs came calling and he wanted to take the money and/or believed he was ready for a bigger stage. He went and we got a fee - some fans took the hump but being long in the tooth and having seen it all before I didn't think all that much of it.

The move to Celtic didn't work out well for him as he's played precious little football this last few years. Now he's back at Hibs, his interviews seem to indicate a lesson has been learned (as well as perhaps some paychecks banked?) and he's expressed an over-arching desire to play and enjoy his football here at a club which genuinely seems to be a good fit for his talents. I hope that's not just bluster and he genuinely does see a future at Hibs beyond the next enquiry from some more glamorous destination.

Regardless though, the way I see it right now is that Scott Allan is good for Hibs and Hibs is good for Scott Allan, and the result is some great eye-catching football - long may it continue and I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it.

Couldn't agree more. I'm always amazed when I see people on here referring to players or managers who have left us in the past, and are still angry about it - it's just part of football.

Of course the same labels have never been applied to other players and managers who have left other clubs and come to us, under similar circumstances.

Hibrandenburg
23-02-2018, 06:30 PM
John Robertson for Hearts springs to mind, he never really set the heather on fire elsewhere.

Sammy7nil
23-02-2018, 06:35 PM
John Robertson for Hearts springs to mind, he never really set the heather on fire elsewhere.

So too McCoist he only really performed when he was getting paid tax free:wink:

hibby6270
23-02-2018, 06:43 PM
There was the Norwegian guy for Celtic (Brattbak?). Banged goals in before and after his spell at Parkhead but didn’t live up to his hype while there. Although, ironically, he did score the league clinching goal in what I recall was his last season with them.

villahibs
23-02-2018, 09:19 PM
James Collins.... scores goals everywhere (still not sure how that actually happens!) 🙈

HibbyAndy
23-02-2018, 09:22 PM
Vaz Te

Ryan69
23-02-2018, 09:46 PM
Beniuseless at Hearts

Ryan69
23-02-2018, 09:46 PM
James Collins.... scores goals everywhere (still not sure how that actually happens!) 🙈

Was a descent player in fairness..just didn't score.

villahibs
23-02-2018, 09:52 PM
Matt Doherty! Absolutely strolling the championship with Wolves...

Lancs Harp
23-02-2018, 09:52 PM
George Best was nothing till he joined Hibernian, he couldnt drink either :wink:

villahibs
23-02-2018, 09:56 PM
Was a descent player in fairness..just didn't score.

Always seemed so slow and awkward. He's certainly not the worst I've seen, but I'm surprised he's consistently managed to score at a decent level in England.

jacomo
23-02-2018, 10:13 PM
Jim Leighton earned redemption at Hibs.

keep the faith
23-02-2018, 11:27 PM
Matt Doherty! Absolutely strolling the championship with Wolves...

Was good for us too. His attitude less so....

The_Exile
24-02-2018, 12:34 AM
Didn’t Thierry Henry have a bit of a nightmare at Juventus before he switched to Arsenal?

Coutinho also was a bit part player a Inter before being loaned to a fairly average Spanish team before going to Liverpool.

My_Wife_Camille
24-02-2018, 12:43 AM
Diego Costa. Farmed out on loan for 5 of his 6 seasons at Atlético before having a wonder season and signing for Chelsea

Diego Forlán. A major flop at Man United and went of to have a pretty decent career elsewhere

The_Horde
24-02-2018, 12:46 AM
Big Freddie Kanoute. Flopped in England and bossed it in Spain.

Paulinho at Barcelona right now, one of the best in the world at what he does but flopped at spurs.

My_Wife_Camille
24-02-2018, 01:09 AM
Mark Oxley. Flopped (or should that be flapped) up here but doing ok for himself down in England

Fisherrow Harp
24-02-2018, 04:02 AM
With respect, that's pish :greengrin
With respect. You are right!

Dashing Bob S
24-02-2018, 04:20 AM
Larry Kingston

hibs#1
24-02-2018, 06:29 AM
Dennis Bergkamp

Viva_Palmeiras
24-02-2018, 07:10 AM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't readily change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?

Boyle?

Viva_Palmeiras
24-02-2018, 07:13 AM
Stevenson (cue 10+ pages...)

Michael
24-02-2018, 10:08 AM
Diego Costa. Farmed out on loan for 5 of his 6 seasons at Atlético before having a wonder season and signing for Chelsea

Diego Forlán. A major flop at Man United and went of to have a pretty decent career elsewhere

Forlan was incredible at the 2010 World Cup. I'd also say that 'major' flop is a bit strong as he still made almost 100 appearances for them.

Hibbyradge
24-02-2018, 12:48 PM
With respect. You are right!

With respect, you misunderstood my point.

Robinho08
24-02-2018, 01:18 PM
I understand why you say that, but his career has actually been fairly linear.

He didn't make it at Wolves, but he's been successful everywhere else.

He scored 12 in 26 appearances. He was more unsettled than didn't make it. He's scored goals at every team he's played for.

FilipinoHibs
24-02-2018, 03:31 PM
Diego Costa. Farmed out on loan for 5 of his 6 seasons at Atlético before having a wonder season and signing for Chelsea

Diego Forlán. A major flop at Man United and went of to have a pretty decent career elsewhere

Forlan great at Athletico and besf player of a World Cup. Absolute taliisman and heart of a lion.

jgl07
24-02-2018, 06:55 PM
Paul Pogba. Did nothing at United and went to Juventus where he looked a world beater, Came back to United and struggles to get a start.

snooky
24-02-2018, 07:07 PM
Supermac was the opposite. A scoring machine at Newcastle but did nothing much at Arsenal, IIRC.

McD
24-02-2018, 09:35 PM
Paul Pogba. Did nothing at United and went to Juventus where he looked a world beater, Came back to United and struggles to get a start.


In fairness, he was a teenager when he left Man Utd

Mibbes Aye
24-02-2018, 09:38 PM
I risk being called a cynic, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to fully embrace the heady optimism which the arrival of Scott Allan has engendered.

Suddenly, a player who has failed to consistently impress anywhere in his career, is a "good fit" at Hibs and, for the first time ever, is in line for international honours. He's a luxury, an enigmatic pickpocket who needs to be indulged.

Well, maybe he is, I certainly hope so, but my past memory of players with "complicated" careers, is not particularly positive.

For example, Liam Miller started well and offered great hope under Yogi, but fell away badly.

Because of a shocking disciplinary record
which really should have ended his career years earlier, Chic Charnley came to Hibs on a pay as you play deal.

He did quite well at first. He was very skilful and good to watch to the extent that there were calls for him to be called up for Scotland. What happened? He got sent off again for fighting with a teammate.

Even Anthony Stokes brought trouble to the dressing room the first time he was at Easter Road, and we all know how his Hibs career ended.

So, my experience of footballers is that they don't readily change, but I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions.

Are there many examples of players who have settled down and proved the doubters wrong by achieving their potential?

Steve Bruce was turned down by several clubs when he tried to turn pro and was on the verge of quitting and taking up a trade when he got offered a trial with Gillingham. He went for it and got offered a deal and ended up having a successful time with them. That resulted in his move to Norwich where he won silverware and subsequently to Man Utd where he won multiple trophies in the first great Ferguson team.

The best bit of this story is when Brucie went down to Gillingham for his trial, he didn't go alone. Another young lad called Peter Beardsley went with him but the Gills told him they weren't interested :greengrin

My_Wife_Camille
24-02-2018, 09:48 PM
Forlan was incredible at the 2010 World Cup. I'd also say that 'major' flop is a bit strong as he still made almost 100 appearances for them.
He was incredible at the World Cup 6 years after he flopped at United. It took him 27 games to score his first goal and 35 before he scored in the league. He's he racked up a reasonable number of games but of the 98 he played he only started about 30 of them and averaged 5 goals a season. If we're counting appearances as a measure of success that I shudder to think of some of the 'successful' players we've had at the club

The laddie flopped at United and then went on to become great, that's what the thread title has asked.

Hibbyradge
25-02-2018, 12:40 AM
He scored 12 in 26 appearances. He was more unsettled than didn't make it. He's scored goals at every team he's played for.

Good point 👍