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View Full Version : Are you glad we went down?



lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 10:27 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I've decided that I am. I'm not convinced we would've got rid of Butcher had we stayed up. The club has been completely rebuilt to an extent that it's hardly recognisable from the club that went down. I've never felt such a close connection to hibs that I do now.
Oh aye and there's the cup win:greengrin

Bostonhibby
28-04-2017, 10:34 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I've decided that I am. I'm not convinced we would've got rid of Butcher had we stayed up. The club has been completely rebuilt to an extent that it's hardly recognisable from the club that went down. I've never felt such a close connection to hibs that I do now.
Oh aye and there's the cup win:greengrin
With hindsight if relegation was the price of getting rid of butcher and the inevitable end product of the 4 or 5 years before that then I'm delighted as it brought about the root and branch review that reconnected our club to the fans and it's been going in the right direction ever since. We're on the up.



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Dashing Bob S
28-04-2017, 10:34 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I've decided that I am. I'm not convinced we would've got rid of Butcher had we stayed up. The club has been completely rebuilt to an extent that it's hardly recognisable from the club that went down. I've never felt such a close connection to hibs that I do now.
Oh aye and there's the cup win:greengrin

YES - DELIGHTED!!!

Wouldn't recommend it again, and it hurt at the time, but it gave the club a massive reboot. I doubt we'd have had Stubbs, and as Pat Stanton said, 'Hibs will win the cup when you least expect it.' Our jinx was so all consuming, it had to be special circumstances for us to break it.

We would never have done that had we stayed in the Premiership.

We come back up a stronger club than ever before, with a larger, more upbeat, united support, and with bad mother****er of a manager who has helped us shed our lovable losers tag.

Also, we'll actually enjoy playing against St Johnstone and Killie and Patrick after the three season hiatus.

And, let's face it, when was the last time we looked forward to derbies so much?

Sir David Gray
28-04-2017, 10:39 PM
Nope absolutely not.

I can't believe this is even being asked to be honest.

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 10:44 PM
Nope absolutely not.

I can't believe this is even being asked to be honest.
I would say it's pretty obvious why it's being asked. I set out the reasons in the op. Where do you think we'd be right now if we'd stayed up?

calumhibee1
28-04-2017, 10:52 PM
I could never bring myself to say I'm glad we got relegated. Has it worked out for the best? Hard to say. If Leeann hadn't came to Hibs then we'd still be a mess. She may well have managed to fix us without us being relegated, who knows.

It's not so much the relegation that has gave us the kick up the arse we needed, Leeann and Stubbsy arriving were the catalyst for it.

Ronniekirk
28-04-2017, 10:52 PM
I would say it's pretty obvious why it's being asked. I set out the reasons in the op. Where do you think we'd be right now if we'd stayed up?

If we had stayed up we wouldn't of been in the Championship and without knowing the players Butcher and his team had lined up to come on board its difficult to know how we would have done
If going down was the only catalyst for brining in L D and our Scottish Cup Win then it has now been worth it
But i never want to spend another prolonged period in the Championship


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Mantis Toboggan
28-04-2017, 10:55 PM
These have been the best 3 years I have had supporting hibs.
If you had told me that would end up being the case at FT of the hamilton second leg I would have laughed in your face. In between crying.

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 10:57 PM
I could never bring myself to say I'm glad we got relegated. Has it worked out for the best? Hard to say. If Leeann hadn't came to Hibs then we'd still be a mess. She may well have managed to fix us without us being relegated, who knows.

It's not so much the relegation that has gave us the kick up the arse we needed, Leeann and Stubbsy arriving were the catalyst for it.
I'm not sure we'd have got Stubbs if we hadn't been relegated. I suspect Butcher would've been given more time and we'd have ended up going down the following year. I couldn't have handled another season in the championship, but were all the better for our time down there imo.

Sir David Gray
28-04-2017, 10:58 PM
I would say it's pretty obvious why it's being asked. I set out the reasons in the op. Where do you think we'd be right now if we'd stayed up?

Most of the rebuilding that's happened has been thanks to Leeann Dempster. She was only just in the door when we got relegated so there's every chance that she would have implemented the change that we've seen over the last 3 years, without the need of being relegated to shock the club into change.

In my opinion Butcher was out the door regardless of whether we went down or not that season. I think Dempster saw enough to be concerned about regarding Butcher and his management style in her first few months in the post and relegation won't have changed her mind on that.

Going down to the Championship was an absolute embarrassment for Hibs, spending three years there has been a nightmare. There's nothing that could convince me to believe that being relegated was a good thing for the club.

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 10:59 PM
If we had stayed up we wouldn't of been in the Championship and without knowing the players Butcher and his team had lined up to come on board its difficult to know how we would have done
If going down was the only catalyst for brining in L D and our Scottish Cup Win then it has now been worth it
But i never want to spend another prolonged period in the Championship


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It's worth remembering that Leeann was coming whether we went down or not. I just don't think Butcher would've been sacked if we stayed up. I also very much doubt we'd have had our best day supporting hibs on the 21st of may last year.

Sir David Gray
28-04-2017, 10:59 PM
If we had stayed up we wouldn't of been in the Championship and without knowing the players Butcher and his team had lined up to come on board its difficult to know how we would have done
If going down was the only catalyst for brining in L D and our Scottish Cup Win then it has now been worth it
But i never want to spend another prolonged period in the Championship


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Leeann Dempster had already been appointed before we were relegated.

coco22
28-04-2017, 11:00 PM
Relegation can never be a positive but bigger picture will bring us back stronger as a club, with a better manager (than Butcher), better squad, altogether ethos about the club and fan base. Silver linings for me...on the up and loving it 💚

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 11:01 PM
Most of the rebuilding that's happened has been thanks to Leeann Dempster. She was only just in the door when we got relegated so there's every chance that she would have implemented the change that we've seen over the last 3 years, without the need of being relegated to shock the club into change.

In my opinion Butcher was out the door regardless of whether we went down or not that season. I think Dempster saw enough to be concerned about regarding Butcher and his management style in her first few months in the post and relegation won't have changed her mind on that.

Going down to the Championship was an absolute embarrassment for Hibs, spending three years there has been a nightmare. There's nothing that could convince me to believe that being relegated was a good thing for the club.
I agree with most of that except the part about Butcher going and that's the crucial point in the argument.

Mantis Toboggan
28-04-2017, 11:07 PM
Most of the rebuilding that's happened has been thanks to Leeann Dempster. She was only just in the door when we got relegated so there's every chance that she would have implemented the change that we've seen over the last 3 years, without the need of being relegated to shock the club into change.

In my opinion Butcher was out the door regardless of whether we went down or not that season. I think Dempster saw enough to be concerned about regarding Butcher and his management style in her first few months in the post and relegation won't have changed her mind on that.

Going down to the Championship was an absolute embarrassment for Hibs, spending three years there has been a nightmare. There's nothing that could convince me to believe that being relegated was a good thing for the club.

We got rid of butcher.
We have won the cup.
We are dominating hearts.
We have a good manager and chief exec.
We have good players.
The crowds have come back.
All pretty strong arguments I would have thought?

Sir David Gray
28-04-2017, 11:11 PM
I agree with most of that except the part about Butcher going and that's the crucial point in the argument.

We'll clearly never know but here's the interview that she gave at the time following Butcher's dismissal.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/481560/Leeann-Dempster-Why-I-had-to-sack-Hibs-manager-Terry-Butcher

There's no mention of relegation being the reason for him being sacked, in fact she mentions that the main reason was that it was decided we needed a fresh approach.

That tells me that she just didn't fancy Butcher's style of management and that relegation made no additional impact on her decision.

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 11:16 PM
We'll clearly never know but here's the interview that she gave at the time following Butcher's dismissal.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/481560/Leeann-Dempster-Why-I-had-to-sack-Hibs-manager-Terry-Butcher

There's no mention of relegation being the reason for him being sacked, in fact she mentions that the main reason was that it was decided we needed a fresh approach.

That tells me that she just didn't fancy Butcher's style of management and that relegation made no additional impact on her decision.
You're right we'll never know, but the fresh approach might not have been deemed immediately necessary if we hadn't been relegated. What's not up for debate is we were a club on a downward spiral and now we're riding on the crest of a wave.

Sir David Gray
28-04-2017, 11:26 PM
You're right we'll never know, but the fresh approach might not have been deemed immediately necessary if we hadn't been relegated. What's not up for debate is we were a club on a downward spiral and now we're riding on the crest of a wave.

I agree with that. I hadn't been engaged with Hibs for a good 3-4 years prior to relegation, it was a horrible time to support the club and it was inevitable that we would go down at some point, it was just a matter of "when".

There's clearly a lot more of a relationship between the club and the supporters these days but again I feel a lot of that is down to Leeann Dempster, rather than anything to do with us being strengthened through being relegated.

What I will say, which I hope everyone will agree with, is that relegation must never be allowed to happen again. There's no chance that a club of Hibs' stature should be allowed to get into that state again and the custodians of the club must never allow themselves to become complacent to the point that the Premiership status of the club is under threat. We need to be ambitious and that involves challenging for the top few spots in the Premiership every season, qualifying for Europe regularly and consistently getting to Hampden in both cups. I never want to see us play in the Championship again.

ano hibby
28-04-2017, 11:26 PM
I would not change one single thing about the last 3/4 seasons.
Great to be alive & be a Hibby.

lyonhibs
28-04-2017, 11:30 PM
Absolutely not. We needed to win about 1 game in the last 8 to save us the ignominy of 3 ******g seasons in this *****heap of a league.

Dempster was already appointed so, IMO, Butcher was a busted flush either way.

There should never be a rosy side to Hibernian FC getting relegated, let alone for 3 seasons.

Lancs Harp
28-04-2017, 11:30 PM
I agree with that. I hadn't been engaged with Hibs for a good 3-4 years prior to relegation, it was a horrible time to support the club and it was inevitable that we would go down at some point, it was just a matter of "when".

There's clearly a lot more of a relationship between the club and the supporters these days but again I feel a lot of that is down to Leeann Dempster, rather than anything to do with us being strengthened through being relegated.

What I will say, which I hope everyone will agree with, is that relegation must never be allowed to happen again. There's no chance that a club of Hibs' stature should be allowed to get into that state again and the custodians of the club must never allow themselves to become complacent to the point that the Premiership status of the club is under threat. We need to be ambitious and that involves challenging for the top few spots in the Premiership every season, qualifying for Europe regularly and consistently getting to Hampden in both cups. I never want to see us play in the Championship again.

Amen to that.

Babyshamble
28-04-2017, 11:35 PM
Anybody that wanted our team to get relegated needs to get a grip.stupid thread.

ehf
28-04-2017, 11:35 PM
I agree with most of that except the part about Butcher going and that's the crucial point in the argument.

The crucial point in the argument is really the transference of power from Petrie to someone who knew what they were doing: i.e. Leanne.

I am sure she would have sacked Butcher and his loathsome sidekick even if we had stayed up; there is no way she could have worked with them.

i think we probably would have have done well under Stubbsy in the top tier if we had stayed up but we'll never know how it would have panned out and, although I would never say I am glad we went down, given the cup win, I would not change the last three years.

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 11:39 PM
I agree with that. I hadn't been engaged with Hibs for a good 3-4 years prior to relegation, it was a horrible time to support the club and it was inevitable that we would go down at some point, it was just a matter of "when".

There's clearly a lot more of a relationship between the club and the supporters these days but again I feel a lot of that is down to Leeann Dempster, rather than anything to do with us being strengthened through being relegated.

What I will say, which I hope everyone will agree with, is that relegation must never be allowed to happen again. There's no chance that a club of Hibs' stature should be allowed to get into that state again and the custodians of the club must never allow themselves to become complacent to the point that the Premiership status of the club is under threat. We need to be ambitious and that involves challenging for the top few spots in the Premiership every season, qualifying for Europe regularly and consistently getting to Hampden in both cups. I never want to see us play in the Championship again.
I feel that everything is in place for us now to become the major force in Scottish football that we once were. I wish it hadn't taken us to be relegated to make it happen, but we now have a definite advantage over our rivals in that we don't have to spend any money on infrastructure. It's all about the team on the park now.

SChibs
28-04-2017, 11:40 PM
Anybody that wanted our team to get relegated needs to get a grip.stupid thread.

Nobody said they wanted hibs to get relegated. I dont think we'd have won the cup if we'd stayed up so for that reason im glad it happened

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 11:41 PM
The crucial point in the argument is really the transference of power from Petrie to someone who knew what they were doing: i.e. Leanne.

I am sure she would have sacked Butcher and his loathsome sidekick even if we had stayed up; there is no way she could have worked with them.

i think we probably would have have done well under Stubbsy in the top tier if we had stayed up but we'll never know how it would have panned out and, although I would never say I am glad we went down, given the cup win, I would not change the last three years.
Your last sentence there is probably how I should've worded the question. Would anyone change the last 3 years for survival under Butcher.

ano hibby
28-04-2017, 11:42 PM
Absolutely not. We needed to win about 1 game in the last 8 to save us the ignominy of 3 ******g seasons in this *****heap of a league.

Dempster was already appointed so, IMO, Butcher was a busted flush either way.

There should never be a rosy side to Hibernian FC getting relegated, let alone for 3 seasons.

The circumstances leading up to our glorious SC win were why we won the thing. We wouldn't have won it if it wasn't for the tragi comedy of relegation. That weekend in May was simply irreplaceable & I for one believe if we hadn't got relegated we wouldn't have won the cup. Refer to the Sir Pat quote above. He was right. I didn't realise it at the time but I'm delighted JC missed that pen.

matty_f
28-04-2017, 11:42 PM
Anybody that wanted our team to get relegated needs to get a grip.stupid thread.

Nobody said they wanted the team to get relegated.

I can see the OP's point. The club needed a massive overhaul, relegation allowed the off-field staff to start that rebuilding while the first team were (mostly) getting on with winning games.

We might have done that if we'd stayed up, who knows?

We definitely return to the top flight in a much healthier and stronger state than we left it.

lord bunberry
28-04-2017, 11:43 PM
Anybody that wanted our team to get relegated needs to get a grip.stupid thread.
I didn't say that. No one wanted us to be relegated to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

poolman
28-04-2017, 11:54 PM
Anybody that wanted our team to get relegated needs to get a grip.stupid thread.


Nobody said they wanted Hibs to get relegated, please read the thread title again

If you think it is a stupid thread why did you reply to it 🤔

NAE NOOKIE
28-04-2017, 11:58 PM
I don't know if 'glad' would be the way to put it, I would much rather we had changed the club root and branch and won the cup while we were a premiership club.

But if relegation was the catalyst required for change to happen then yes I'm glad we went down. I know Leanne Dempster would have been CEO even if we had stayed up, but I'm not sure she would have had the same blank piece of paper to work with that was presented to her at the end of the relegation season, her hand was strengthened in so much as there was not one person at the club in a position to tell her that anything at the club was working better than any changes she wanted to make and the same goes for Stubbs and his team on the playing side.

What nobody could have predicted was the perfect storm we would end up being faced with in the Championship, we had to build a whole new team whereas Hertz had had a quarter of a season to prepare for their inevitable demotion putting them on the front foot compared to us. It was inevitable that the Huns wouldn't be a basket case for two seasons running and would eventually in spite of themselves acquire a manager who had at least some idea what he was doing, that coupled with two cup runs that stretched our resources to breaking point contributed to a second season where we couldn't get across the line.

Whatever the case there is no doubt that Hibs are improved in every aspect of the club from the one that was sleep walking to decline in the 5 years before we went down and surely we will never again fail to heed the warning signs so negligently ignored during our slow painful demise.

If there's one benefit to spending two more seasons in the championship than any of us would have wanted its that there will be a wee bit of novelty seeing the clubs we haven't met for a while ...... I also look forward to hopefully giving Hamilton an absolute tanking at one point during the season :greengrin

Mantis Toboggan
29-04-2017, 12:02 AM
Absolutely not. We needed to win about 1 game in the last 8 to save us the ignominy of 3 ******g seasons in this *****heap of a league.

Dempster was already appointed so, IMO, Butcher was a busted flush either way.

There should never be a rosy side to Hibernian FC getting relegated, let alone for 3 seasons.

But there has been a rosy side. More than that, a bright ****ing magenta side. Thats all the op is getting at and hes right imo.
We will never know what would have happened if we had scraped through that playoff
But I am pretty certain it would not have involved the cup win.

Liberal Hibby
29-04-2017, 12:05 AM
Isn't the more salient question aren't we glad Leeann stayed when we went down? There was a chance she would decide to stay at Motherwell when we went down. Now that would have been a disaster.

zlatan
29-04-2017, 12:18 AM
The cup win was essentially a huge reset button for the club. Everything leading up to it no longer angers me in the slightest, so I suppose the answer to the question is 'meh'.

Babyshamble
29-04-2017, 12:55 AM
Nobody said they wanted Hibs to get relegated, please read the thread title again

If you think it is a stupid thread why did you reply to it 🤔

Guess I'm not an uber fan like most folk on here.get shot down in flames for having an opinion.didnt mean to cause any offence

Nameless
29-04-2017, 01:10 AM
I'm not "glad" we went down, but in hindsight I can see that it has been a massive boon for us. Anyone trotting out the "embarrassment....club our size....never happen again" mantra is ignoring reality. Poorly run clubs fail, well run clubs prosper. We have no divine right to success, it's only gained by hard work. For years before relagation we were a club aimlessly drifting along. It seemed our only ambition was avoiding relagation. Our support was unenthused, the product on the park was stale and the club was slowly losing its grip on the community that surrounded it. If nothing else, being in the second tier has reinvigorated the club and the support, for one specific reason - breathing space. The players on the park have had time to find their form again and gel as a unit. The support have benefited from watching a side that won - a lot. Off the park, Dempster has had no obstacles to her renovation of the image and ethos of the club, she's had it easy from the fans and for good reason - she's doing a stellar job. I question whether she would have had the unilateral and unequivocal support of us all, had we been playing turgid football at the bottom end of the premier league for the past 3 seasons - I'm inclined to say no.

Am I glad we got relegated - NO!!!
Has it potentially been the best thing that ever happened to Hibs - Almost certainly YES!!!

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 01:12 AM
Guess I'm not an uber fan like most folk on here.get shot down in flames for having an opinion.didnt mean to cause any offence
You didn't cause any offence, you just got the wrong end of the stick. No one in their right mind wanted us to be relegated. We did though and the question is are we stronger for it. Also do you think we'd have won the cup if we'd stayed up. If I asked you 3 years ago if you would take relegation to experience what we did that weekend, would you have taken it. I would.

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 01:16 AM
I'm not "glad" we went down, but in hindsight I can see that it has been a massive boon for us. Anyone trotting out the "embarrassment....club our size....never happen again" mantra is ignoring reality. Poorly run clubs fail, well run clubs prosper. We have no divine right to success, it's only gained by hard work. For years before relagation we were a club aimlessly drifting along. It seemed our only ambition was avoiding relagation. Our support was unenthused, the product on the park was stale and the club was slowly losing its grip on the community that surrounded it. If nothing else, being in the second tier has reinvigorated the club and the support, for one specific reason - breathing space. The players on the park have had time to find their form again and gel as a unit. The support have benefited from watching a side that won - a lot. Off the park, Dempster has had no obstacles to her renovation of the image and ethos of the club, she's had it easy from the fans and for good reason - she's doing a stellar job. I question whether she would have had the unilateral and unequivocal support of us all, had we been playing turgid football at the bottom end of the premier league for the past 3 seasons - I'm inclined to say no.

Am I glad we got relegated - NO!!!
Has it potentially been the best thing that ever happened to Hibs - Almost certainly YES!!!
:top marksThat's what I was trying to say, I just needed your touch of elegance to get my point across :greengrin

Nameless
29-04-2017, 01:27 AM
:top marksThat's what I was trying to say, I just needed your touch of elegance to get my point across :greengrin
I'm many things at 2am, elegant isn't usually one of them [emoji4]

basehibby
29-04-2017, 01:55 AM
I'm a great believer in the butterfly effect - everything action has an infinite series of reactions. And if you follow that line then you've got to say we probably owe our cup win to being relegated.

The cup win has totally rejuvinated the club and we are now in as good shape as we ever have been in my time as a Hibby with crowds against the likes of Dunfermline and Falkirk that we'd have struggled to match in a Derby not all that long ago.

So - put all that together and YES I am actually glad we got relegated, even if at the time it was absolutely totally embarassing and beyond bloody awful.

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 01:59 AM
I'm many things at 2am, elegant isn't usually one of them [emoji4]
Ha ha, eloquence even. Im sure you're also elegant my friend :greengrin

Wilson
29-04-2017, 02:15 AM
Hibs shouldn't ever be outside the top division. I can't be glad of relegation.

We have good people at the club and we made the best of it. This club needs to be making the best of it at the top level though.

Jim44
29-04-2017, 05:28 AM
I'll never be able to 'whitewash' our fall from grace ( except for one very significant event). Yes, I'm delighted to be back where we belong but I'd like to think that, if we hadn't been relegated, Butcher would still have been found severely lacking and given the heave, making way for a return to better days, without the embarrassment and ignominy of three years in the wilderness.

Libby Hibby
29-04-2017, 05:29 AM
Did I want Hibs to be relegated? Absolutely not..

Did relegation help the club rebuild, focus and change their approach? Absolutely.

As many previous posters have mentioned, we may never off achieved the things we have done if we never got relegated.

Having finally got out of this division, I can look back with this period with fondness.

AltheHibby
29-04-2017, 07:29 AM
The cup win was essentially a huge reset button for the club. Everything leading up to it no longer angers me in the slightest.

Me too. I had to put a password in a system yesterday and actually chose Hibs114 as the pain has totally gone.

Am I glad we went down? Yes, because it gave us a chance to revamp the club in a place where we weren't taking regular beatings, allowing us to be much stronger than we would have been. Oh yeah, and beating Them as a lower league team really, really needles them. 😁

Borderhibbie76
29-04-2017, 07:31 AM
Most of the rebuilding that's happened has been thanks to Leeann Dempster. She was only just in the door when we got relegated so there's every chance that she would have implemented the change that we've seen over the last 3 years, without the need of being relegated to shock the club into change.

In my opinion Butcher was out the door regardless of whether we went down or not that season. I think Dempster saw enough to be concerned about regarding Butcher and his management style in her first few months in the post and relegation won't have changed her mind on that.

Going down to the Championship was an absolute embarrassment for Hibs, spending three years there has been a nightmare. There's nothing that could convince me to believe that being relegated was a good thing for the club.
I see where your coming from but I'm not convinced we would have seen such a drastic overhaul of the club had we not went down. It shocked everyone at Hibs including the incoming Leeann into taking drastic action. I don't view the last 3 years as a nightmare at all, the play off defeats under Stubbsy yes and a couple of bad results along the way but generally our club has been on the up the last 3 years culminating in a Scottish cup win, a total change in attitude, 7 unbeaten derbies in a row and now promotion as champs...not the worst 3 years I've had supporting Hibs in my e0 odd years.

That said I NEVER want to see the championship again...lessons must be learnt on that front.

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Hibernia&Alba
29-04-2017, 07:35 AM
I certainly share the view that relegation finally gave the club the wake up call it needed. It's just a shame something so drastic was necessary for that to happen. The club had been rudderless for at least half a decade before relegation, and it's a scandal things had to get so bad before those at the top realised the seriousness of the situation. Thankfully, the required changes were made and things look brighter than they have for a long time. We must never repeat those mistakes again.

Keith_M
29-04-2017, 07:52 AM
Of course not. It will always remain a dark blot in the history of Hibs.


If we had stayed up at the end of the Butcher season, it's entirely possible that Dempster would have binned him anyway. I personally think Stubbs' team would have done quite well in the Premier.

Spike Mandela
29-04-2017, 07:56 AM
Hopefully we get relegated next year..............................let the good times roll.:cb

marinello59
29-04-2017, 08:04 AM
Relegation was nothing but a negative. LD would have turned us around in exactly the same way if we had remained in the top league and it would have been an easier job.

Onion
29-04-2017, 08:06 AM
Never understood all the hand-wringing that goes on when Hibs get relegated. Yes, it has a short term impact on finances, but IMO it has always been a good opportunity to purge ourselves of deadwood, win some matches, build crowds and reset the club. The three times I've seen it, the club has come through it stronger and fitter. The usual mediocrity of football and league position in the Prem year after year feels just like an expensive slow death.

The last 3 years in the Championship (with the Cup Win) will rank up there with the best of the McLeish and Mowbray years. IMO only the Turnbull era was better.

Baldy Foghorn
29-04-2017, 08:19 AM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I've decided that I am. I'm not convinced we would've got rid of Butcher had we stayed up. The club has been completely rebuilt to an extent that it's hardly recognisable from the club that went down. I've never felt such a close connection to hibs that I do now.
Oh aye and there's the cup win:greengrin

No, not glad we went down. 3 seasons in a place we should never have been.

Catalyst for much needed change, but no satisfaction being in lower division for 3 seasons.

Hibernia&Alba
29-04-2017, 08:20 AM
No, not glad we went down. 3 seasons in a place we should never have been.

Catalyst for much needed change, but no satisfaction been in lower division for 3 seasons.

Very much this.

Smartie
29-04-2017, 08:24 AM
If I were to be perfectly honest I've not enjoyed that much about the past 3 years so no, I'm not glad. Not on any level.

Strangely I did quite enjoy the "great adventure of 1998-1999" but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much this time.

Sure, there have been highlights, the cup win being the most obvious. Did we need to get relegated to enjoy that? I don't think so. Dempster's arrival heralded the end for Butcher, not relegation. Stubbs may have come in with us in the Premier League, the only difference may have been that he'd have wanted to hang onto a James McPake or a Ben Williams. Butcher was toast as soon as Dempster arrived, and it was Stubbs who brought in the cup winning team.

I've enjoyed some of the play under Stubbs when Allan or Malonga were on form, I've enjoyed all the good results against Hearts and I've enjoyed still having big games with The Rangers. We had quite a nice sporting rivalry with them for a couple of years there.

But most of the league football has been garbage and in amongst some decent stuff I've also seen some of the worst football I've ever seen Hibs play. The last time we were relegated we ended up picking up some real quality players along the way, but the main difference between the last time we were relegated and this time was the standard of opposition. At least teams tried to play football against us the last time we were relegated.

Watching Hibs toil against teams who don't even have an interest in playing football is no way to spend a Saturday afternoon (although it was nice to watch football on a Saturday afternoon more often than not. The Friday nights were good too). Falkirk better not get promoted because Houstonball should be outlawed.

Nah, I'm happy to put the 3-0 home defeats to Morton, the play-off failures, the defeats at Alloa, struggling on plastic pitches, Christian Nade, Peter Houston, that Morton dick who halfed Forster, having nightmares about no-marks like Bob McHugh, Derek Lyle, the pishing rain of Central Park and trips to Dumbarton firmly behind me and write it off as an aberration that must never be repeated.

superfurryhibby
29-04-2017, 08:39 AM
Never understood all the hand-wringing that goes on when Hibs get relegated. Yes, it has a short term impact on finances, but IMO it has always been a good opportunity to purge ourselves of deadwood, win some matches, build crowds and reset the club. The three times I've seen it, the club has come through it stronger and fitter. The usual mediocrity of football and league position in the Prem year after year feels just like an expensive slow death.

The last 3 years in the Championship (with the Cup Win) will rank up there with the best of the McLeish and Mowbray years. IMO only the Turnbull era was better.

The first relegation you refer to was a shocker. The club went from being one of Britain's finest teams to relegation within a decade. That was a disgrace and when we came back up, we were ***** for the following decade.

Hibs have been relegated three times in my life, the previous time was in the 1930's. The hand wringing comes from the fact that we should never, ever be in that position. The pain and the financial implications both dictate that it shouldn't happen again.

Nobody knows what might have happened. All that matters is that we are back and we have.n opportunity to build on the superb backing from the fans and try and cement our place at the top end of the league.

I could never be glad we were relegated, but I am relieved we are back and I can see we have made three season in the lower tier ( arguably an all time low in terms of our league status) bearable through winning the cup. That win will hopefully mark a turning point for this club, one where we consolidate and build for a positive future.

WhileTheChief..
29-04-2017, 08:48 AM
Three years in this league was a price worth paying for the Cup win and we go back up in a far healthier position.

Glad the way it worked out, not that it happened in the first place.

HFCdeb
29-04-2017, 08:52 AM
Yes, I've never been more in love with Hibs and Easter Road. I've never felt so connected to the Club and even though some of the football over the past three years has been horrific, I've loved challenging for league titles and cups simultaneously.
The Premier League is where we belong but I will be seriously disappointed if we're not targeting at least second place as well as continuing our impressive presence in both cups.

**Edit** it goes without saying that I also expect our dominance in the Edinburgh derby to continue for many a year to come.

Phil MaGlass
29-04-2017, 08:59 AM
What I will say is, we have rebuilt the club, the fans are coming back, next season should have a few sellouts, Leanne has made a massive difference, the cup runs, the cup win, a manager that doesnt take crap, a damn good feel good factor, which, incidentally was well evident after we lost the semi.
I also think after winning the cup when the club took the cup on tour was a stroke of genius and I really believe it had a hand in alot of lapsed and new fans turning up at ER.
relegation was a nightmare which seemed to never end, I cant decide if it was a good thing or not when you take everything into account, could the club have been rebuilt if we had not been relegated, would Butcher have been sacked if we had stayed up or would he have been given more time.We will never know
One thing I do believe though, is that cup win and the Lennon signing put has helped towards putting the feel good factor back.
Onwards and upwards.

northstandhibby
29-04-2017, 09:10 AM
Three years in this league was a price worth paying for the Cup win and we go back up in a far healthier position.

Glad the way it worked out, not that it happened in the first place.

Sums it up for me.

The amazing and extraordinary Cup win by a squad of heroes who very few gave any chance of winning it has made any disappointments of relegation irrelevant for me. An amazing roller coaster three years or so and I wouldn't swap having remained in the top league for anything if it resulted in us missing out on that Cup, that also for me gave us revenge against the huns for 79 when we should no doubt have had a late penalty in the first game that very probably would have won it for us.

Subsequently Lenny has done a fantastic job of leading us to promotion.

glory glory

Jack
29-04-2017, 09:29 AM
It's worth remembering that Leeann was coming whether we went down or not. I just don't think Butcher would've been sacked if we stayed up. I also very much doubt we'd have had our best day supporting hibs on the 21st of may last year.

As you say Leeann was coming in anyway.

The story goes she (and George) sat down with Butcher and set out her vision for Hibs; the football departments and all other parts. Butcher was invited to buy into that vision. He didn't so was emptied. I believe that course would have happened even if we had stayed up.

Leeann was aware of what Stubbs was doing at Everton. I got the impression that had she been staying at Motherwell she would have taken him there if the opportunity arose.

So as far as I'm concerned the Leeann Dempster Revolution with Stubbs included would have happened anyway.

Our absence from the top league has hindered that revolution.

SirDavidsNapper
29-04-2017, 09:36 AM
Gutted we went down and it was a black mark in our history but it was coming and was needed. The transformation in the whole mentality of the club in the last 3 years has been nothing short of staggering. We are coming up bigger and better than before.

tamig
29-04-2017, 09:43 AM
I don't know if 'glad' would be the way to put it, I would much rather we had changed the club root and branch and won the cup while we were a premiership club.

But if relegation was the catalyst required for change to happen then yes I'm glad we went down. I know Leanne Dempster would have been CEO even if we had stayed up, but I'm not sure she would have had the same blank piece of paper to work with that was presented to her at the end of the relegation season, her hand was strengthened in so much as there was not one person at the club in a position to tell her that anything at the club was working better than any changes she wanted to make and the same goes for Stubbs and his team on the playing side.

What nobody could have predicted was the perfect storm we would end up being faced with in the Championship, we had to build a whole new team whereas Hertz had had a quarter of a season to prepare for their inevitable demotion putting them on the front foot compared to us. It was inevitable that the Huns wouldn't be a basket case for two seasons running and would eventually in spite of themselves acquire a manager who had at least some idea what he was doing, that coupled with two cup runs that stretched our resources to breaking point contributed to a second season where we couldn't get across the line.

Whatever the case there is no doubt that Hibs are improved in every aspect of the club from the one that was sleep walking to decline in the 5 years before we went down and surely we will never again fail to heed the warning signs so negligently ignored during our slow painful demise.

If there's one benefit to spending two more seasons in the championship than any of us would have wanted its that there will be a wee bit of novelty seeing the clubs we haven't met for a while ...... I also look forward to hopefully giving Hamilton an absolute tanking at one point during the season :greengrin
Well said sir.

O'Rourke3
29-04-2017, 10:03 AM
I'm in the camp as are most that it was a horrible experience but made us better in the long run. I'm not sure that Alan Stubbs would have got the gig had we stayed in the Premiership and we possibly would have tried harder to keep people who left nor had players like Paul Hanlon and Lewis Stevenson still there that first year.
I truly believe we were trying to get out at the first attempt but Leeann allowed Alan to develop "safe" in the knowledge that there were two other sharks in the pool and nothing is guaranteed in football. Let's face it we all expected to be out last year.
So staying in the top division I think we would have been on a slower, more conservative, line to improve as keeping the status would be paramount. I'd bet my house we would not have broken our cup hoodoo either.
Having been relegated. Full reboot. Then anything is possible and helped by some leeway from the fans. I'm not sure about the rest of you but in that first game against Livingston where The Ox scores direct, I was already thinking with luck like that we are going up.
Before relegation, my view was two years out might be better if it happened. Come straight up without improvement - good chance you could go back down. Second year may improve the squad overall and make us more resilient.
What I did not expect was the influence the new CEO was going to have as well as the autonomy.I suspect we tried to get here earlier once the negotiations had taken place, but she, to her credit, fulfilled her contract with Motherwell. Any squad from the last three years would have at least held their own.
21 May 2016 - best day at football in my life!

Vini1875
29-04-2017, 10:19 AM
No. I still think Leeann would have chased Butcher even if we had got past Hamilton. To even be in that position was a disgace. We would have won the SC at some point. With LD in place and RP stepping back things would have altered anyway.

portyhibernian
29-04-2017, 10:30 AM
At the time we were relegated I thought we were headed into the abyss to be honest. Regressing at a ridiculous pace under Butcher. It's not something I'd like to repeat however I think in the grand scheme of things it's been beneficial to the club being relegated. We have become used to winning most weeks (or at least not losing), we've seen a mentality shift in big games, won two trophies, have the edge in derbies, are breaking season ticket records and have sold out ER more times than I can think of while we were a Premiership side, and come back up with a strong team who should be capable of finishing in top 5 spot at least. Nobody can say with certainty this would be the case had we scraped by Hamilton in the playoffs.

.Sean.
29-04-2017, 10:33 AM
I am because had as much as even one result in the 'journey' been different, the club wouldn't have been on the path that made the cup final win so spectacular.

The last theee years has had some horrendous lows but I wouldn't change it for the world purely because of 21/5/16.

snooky
29-04-2017, 10:38 AM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I've decided that I am. I'm not convinced we would've got rid of Butcher had we stayed up. The club has been completely rebuilt to an extent that it's hardly recognisable from the club that went down. I've never felt such a close connection to hibs that I do now.
Oh aye and there's the cup win:greengrin

Am I glad we went down?
No.

Northernhibee
29-04-2017, 10:42 AM
We'd have gotten rid of Butcher either way, Leeann had experience of him before. We didn't win the cup because we were a lower league team either.

It's embarrassing that Hibs have been a lower league team for three years. Looking forward to putting the record straight in the top division.

21.05.2016
29-04-2017, 10:55 AM
No. A club like hibs should never have fallen so far, the rot should have been stopped a long time before and so should massives changes have been made. It was an embarrassment and a sad day in this proud clubs history.

However, it gave the whole club a massive reboot from top to bottom. Dempster came in and made massive changes and it's like a new club now. The morale is back, we have a team we can be proud of, the club is far more engaged with the fans and we have built a team of good players who want to fight tooth and nail for the jersey instead of a bunch of lazy, uninterested journeymen that we've plucked from the lower English leagues. If we had just survived by the skin of our teeth then the relief of that might have papered over some cracks, at least relegation angered everyone enough to demand immediate change. Would there have been a mass rally outside ER if we'd beaten Hamilton and stayed up? I doubt it, we'd have just been relieved and glad the season was over just like the year before. To a certain point, we'd come to start accepting being mediocre where as we should have been furious with anything less than a top 6 finish. Theres always the debate as well if we'd survived would Leaann have kept Butcher, we'll never know but the thought of that really doesn't bare thinking about.

We've come such a long way since the relegation. Glad it happened, no but if thats what it took to finally shake up the club and not just scrapping along with the status quo just hoping it might get better then so be it. I hope massive lessons have been learned from this and that we never ever let ourselves get so low again.

Andy74
29-04-2017, 10:56 AM
We haven't really changed anything until we are regularly in the top 3 or 4 so let's see how we get on.

NORTHERNHIBBY
29-04-2017, 11:06 AM
The one about knocked down three get up four applies. They way that we have come back up is what matters and that we all learn the lesson.

Eyrie
29-04-2017, 11:36 AM
I can never be glad that we were relegated. I'm still frustrated that it took us three attempts to get back up and just relieved to have finally done so.

It's impossible to say how things would have worked out if we had survived, other than that Dempster would still have binned Butcher and overhauled the club, which was why we wanted her.

I can confidently say that relegation was not a factor in winning the Scottish Cup. We won last year because we had the right manager and the right group of players, and we may well have had those if we had stayed up.

snooky
29-04-2017, 11:48 AM
I can never be glad that we were relegated. I'm still frustrated that it took us three attempts to get back up and just relieved to have finally done so.

It's impossible to say how things would have worked out if we had survived, other than that Dempster would still have binned Butcher and overhauled the club, which was why we wanted her.

I can confidently say that relegation was not a factor in winning the Scottish Cup. We won last year because we had the right manager and the right group of players, and we may well have had those if we had stayed up.

It was meant to be. Sometimes all the stars line up and the rubs of the green (no pun intended) go your way.
This year it didn't. Hence the flukey goal that put us out the cup.

Seveno
29-04-2017, 12:10 PM
This is an interesting and valid debate. Most of it seems to involve the arrival of Leeann and departure of Butcher, and rightly so. I think though that we also have to factor in the reorganisation of the football operation by George Craig. He has done a great job as anyone who attended the AGM would probably agree. I am pretty certain that he would also have seen Butcher as an impediment to change and told Leeann that he had to go, if she had not realised that already.

eezyrider
29-04-2017, 12:50 PM
I can't believe some people are glad we went down. Going down was an embarrassment!
The points for us going down seem to be circle around Butcher going and winning the Scottish Cup.

LD was still coming here and it has been reported before that she sacked Butcher on the strength of speaking to him about his plans for the coming season. Given his record up to the end of the season he was always going to be sacked even if we had been able to stay up. As for the Scottish Cup it was the draw that won it - not relegation. Given the same draw who would have beaten us? Looking at the games to the final the only difference I would say would have been we wouldn't have needed a replay to beat Heats, wouldn't have needed extra time and penalties to win against and Dundee United and would have strolled it against the lower league opposition of Rangers. We might have even been able to win that League Cup final.

Some are getting carried away by some good results against Championship opponents.

Anyone who's glad we went down needs their head examined.

EZ

hibbybob
29-04-2017, 03:25 PM
I had the pleasure of chatting with Leeann before the AGM and actually asked her about Butcher and what would have happened if we had survived the play off.
She said that it would have been difficult to sack him but he (and Malpass) would have to have conformed to her way of working if they were to be there long term.
Reading between the lines I have little doubt she would have emptied them but not as quickly as our relegation allowed.
I was really impressed by her honesty and how happy she was to chat with us.

HibernianJK
29-04-2017, 03:28 PM
Don't see how people say there's no way we would have won the cup if we didn't go down

Leeann was already appointed, she already had a vision of how she wanted this club to be run. There was as big a chance of us winning the cup in the Premier League if not more, than in the Championship.

celthedd1
29-04-2017, 03:36 PM
Don't see how people say there's no way we would have won the cup if we didn't go down

Leeann was already appointed, she already had a vision of how she wanted this club to be run. There was as big a chance of us winning the cup in the Premier League if not more, than in the Championship.

Quite unbelievable that this thread has had so much respect, would you want to go down next or any other season, were you glad that night against Accies.....NO, and thats 3 years ago !!

Mantis Toboggan
29-04-2017, 05:06 PM
Quite unbelievable that this thread has had so much respect, would you want to go down next or any other season, were you glad that night against Accies.....NO, and thats 3 years ago !!

Nobody has said they wanted us to go down.
Read the bloody thread before commenting.

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 05:12 PM
Quite unbelievable that this thread has had so much respect, would you want to go down next or any other season, were you glad that night against Accies.....NO, and thats 3 years ago !!
I find it quite unbelievable that some people can so spectacularly miss the point of this thread.
No one is saying we were glad to be relegated at the time. I was asking that with hindsight was relegation a good or necessary thing for us as a club. I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that tbh.

Spike Mandela
29-04-2017, 05:15 PM
I find it quite unbelievable that some people can so spectacularly miss the point of this thread.
No one is saying we were glad to be relegated at the time. I was asking that with hindsight was relegation a good or necessary thing for us as a club. I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that tbh.

The thread is called 'Are you glad we went down'.:confused:

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 05:24 PM
The thread is called 'Are you glad we went down'.:confused:
Are you glad now, not at the time. Do you feel the top to bottom rebuild of the club and the Scottish cup win have been enough to make you think that relegation was worth it.
We are in the best shape that I can remember, maybe we would've been in as good a position with the cup in the bag had we stayed up. I don't think we would.

Dashing Bob S
29-04-2017, 05:28 PM
Never understood all the hand-wringing that goes on when Hibs get relegated. Yes, it has a short term impact on finances, but IMO it has always been a good opportunity to purge ourselves of deadwood, win some matches, build crowds and reset the club. The three times I've seen it, the club has come through it stronger and fitter. The usual mediocrity of football and league position in the Prem year after year feels just like an expensive slow death.

The last 3 years in the Championship (with the Cup Win) will rank up there with the best of the McLeish and Mowbray years. IMO only the Turnbull era was better.

Good point. Relegation isn't always the tragedy it's made out to be. However, it was the cup win that changed everything. As much as a grind this season was to gain ascendancy, think how it would have been without the cup and the big crowds. We'd have come up struggling to shift 9k ST's instead of looking at 13 plus

Glory Lurker
29-04-2017, 05:34 PM
Not read the thread, but in answer to the question, not a chance.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
29-04-2017, 06:10 PM
We needed it. In a way, glad it happened!

PatHead
29-04-2017, 06:15 PM
Don't know how anyone can put a positive spin on it. Set us back a lot. We should have been aiming for a high place finish while hearts were away and the new club working their way through the leagues.

Andy74
29-04-2017, 06:19 PM
I find it quite unbelievable that some people can so spectacularly miss the point of this thread.
No one is saying we were glad to be relegated at the time. I was asking that with hindsight was relegation a good or necessary thing for us as a club. I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that tbh.

People aren't missing the point, there's just not much deference between being glad at the time and glad now it's happened and we are back up.

I fail to see why it was necessary then or now. We are pretty much back where we started. We can say the team and club are much improved when we are doing better than we have done previously. Bear in mind that we've been very critical of teams and managers like Hughes that got us 4th previously. In the scheme of things we've still got a bit to go.

celthedd1
29-04-2017, 06:22 PM
I find it quite unbelievable that some people can so spectacularly miss the point of this thread.
No one is saying we were glad to be relegated at the time. I was asking that with hindsight was relegation a good or necessary thing for us as a club. I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that tbh.
Ok point granted but its been 2 failed attempts to go up, although unusualky there were big clubs in Hearts and Rangers competing.Poor perfornances mainly and the cup win was just that, a cup win wheres the semi was a lottery and Logans inclusion was a blessing that day.I know what the cup meant and still means to you Scots but that wim couldent have nothing to do with the fact that Hibs were playing in the Chamionship, as for crowds, theyve increased hugely but the british mentality is that folk like to follow a dominant team, heres hoping that the fickle fans stay with Hibs if the wheels begin to come off !

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 06:29 PM
People aren't missing the point, there's just not much deference between being glad at the time and glad now it's happened and we are back up.

I fail to see why it was necessary then or now. We are pretty much back where we started. We can say the team and club are much improved when we are doing better than we have done previously. Bear in mind that we've been very critical of teams and managers like Hughes that got us 4th previously. In the scheme of things we've still got a bit to go.
There's a huge difference between being glad it happened now to being glad at the time. I very much doubt anyone left the stadium after the Hamilton game and thought relegation was a good thing. Now we're back we can look back and form an opinion regarding the last three years. I also don't know how you can say we're back where we started! We are back where we were on a sporting front, but we're a million miles from the club that got relegated.
My question was based around whether you think we'd be in such a healthy position now if we'd stayed up. I don't think we would.

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 06:36 PM
Ok point granted but its been 2 failed attempts to go up, although unusualky there were big clubs in Hearts and Rangers competing.Poor perfornances mainly and the cup win was just that, a cup win wheres the semi was a lottery and Logans inclusion was a blessing that day.I know what the cup meant and still means to you Scots but that wim couldent have nothing to do with the fact that Hibs were playing in the Chamionship, as for crowds, theyve increased hugely but the british mentality is that folk like to follow a dominant team, heres hoping that the fickle fans stay with Hibs if the wheels begin to come off !
I'm more referring to where we are as a club and as supporters to where we were 3 years ago. Your last point is an unknown, but it certainly adds weight to having a properly contested league that doesn't involve one or two teams dominating the rest.
Scotland suffers from our league being uncompetitive. The evidence points to a healthier position if the old firm left.

PatHead
29-04-2017, 06:37 PM
There's a huge difference between being glad it happened now to being glad at the time. I very much doubt anyone left the stadium after the Hamilton game and thought relegation was a good thing. Now we're back we can look back and form an opinion regarding the last three years. I also don't know how you can say we're back where we started! We are back where we were on a sporting front, but we're a million miles from the club that got relegated.
My question was based around whether you think we'd be in such a healthy position now if we'd stayed up. I don't think we would.
The catalyst for the change is Leeann. She would have driven us on in any event with a higher budget. Being out the top division has hurt us. Butcher would not have survived.

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 06:45 PM
The catalyst for the change is Leeann. She would have driven us on in any event with a higher budget. Being out the top division has hurt us. Butcher would not have survived.
Someone said earlier in the thread that Leeann said it would've been harder to get rid of Butcher if we'd stayed up. Had that happened Stubbs might have got another job and our cup win wouldn't have happened. That day was worth 5 seasons in the championship. It's not often you can identify the best day of your life and have pictures and a DVD to show people, but it happened.

NZ Green
29-04-2017, 07:01 PM
In hindsight I think it was worth it, yeah.

hibee
29-04-2017, 07:03 PM
Not glad we went down but haven't missed the SPL at all.

I've enjoyed most of the time in the championship and think there's a good chance I'd have given up my season ticket if I'd had to suffer another Butcher season struggling at the bottom of the league which would have been a shame after 30+ years having one.

northstandhibby
29-04-2017, 07:14 PM
The catalyst for the change is Leeann. She would have driven us on in any event with a higher budget. Being out the top division has hurt us. Butcher would not have survived.

Leeann has been a massive boost for the club no doubt.

However I think winning the cup is the singular most important and special event for generations and would we have ever won it without being relegated and re-building? We hadn't in 114 years prior so for me that supersedes anything else and the way in which it was achieved appears as if it was meant to have been won this way. So for me being out of the top league has not harmed the club, its united the club in a way that very few thought possible after the Hamilton debacle. That day in May and the spectacular celebrations afterwards would very probably never have occurred otherwise. Am I glad we were relegated at the time - no but the way its turned out now I wouldn't swap it for safety in the top league as its been some adventure.

Onwards and upwards and looking forward to piling on more misery to the Yams!!!

glory glory

PatHead
29-04-2017, 07:18 PM
Someone said earlier in the thread that Leeann said it would've been harder to get rid of Butcher if we'd stayed up. Had that happened Stubbs might have got another job and our cup win wouldn't have happened. That day was worth 5 seasons in the championship. It's not often you can identify the best day of your life and have pictures and a DVD to show people, but it happened.
Leeann definitely would have got rid of Butcher. She asked him for his football plan, how he would develop players, identify new signings, use the technology available,etc. She told him to bring it with him on his return from holiday. He came back with nothing. She could not have worked with him
in any division. He still would not have lasted the day.

Dalianwanda
29-04-2017, 07:25 PM
Am i glad we went down? Not at all, that Hamilton game will be long in my mind for a number of reasons.
Am i glad we are where we are now? - delighted & excited.

Everything else is guesswork and conjecture (which is a large part of a discussion board ;-)

Babyshamble
29-04-2017, 07:33 PM
Nobody said they wanted Hibs to get relegated, please read the thread title again

If you think it is a stupid thread why did you reply to it 🤔

Just read the post again.had too many beers last nite. apololgies mate

Babyshamble
29-04-2017, 07:37 PM
Apologies to anybody I offended with my post on this thread last nite.I was pretty smashed & didn't read it properly.the op was 100% correct.sorry chaps 🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬

NadeAteMyLunch!
29-04-2017, 07:41 PM
It's worth remembering that Leeann was coming whether we went down or not. I just don't think Butcher would've been sacked if we stayed up. I also very much doubt we'd have had our best day supporting hibs on the 21st of may last year.

Think it does Dempster a discredit to even suggest that she would have kept Butcher on. She's so massively switched on and can see through shysters like Butcher in a second. Honestly believe her mind was completely made up before either leg of the Hamilton games.
She actually interviewed Butcher before sacking him and said he did not match what she was looking for in a manager. I don't think that would have changed if he had scraped survival in a play off. She wanted to bring her own man in. Can you imagine for a second her working with Butcher. She'd cringe every time he opened his mouth.
To answer the question, if the deal was relegation and the Scottish cup then I would have taken that. Think Dempster would have sorted us out in the prem if we had survived but there's no guarantee we would have won the cup so it all worked out for the best, in a strange way.

Edinburgher
29-04-2017, 08:35 PM
We will never know whether it has been a good or a bad thing, however, I would say that it`s the best time to be Hibby for me (perhaps Mowbray era excepted). After the Scottish cup win last year, our current dominance in derbies and our excellent attendances this year - I am very positive for the season and future ahead. :agree:

Dom'sFirstTouch
29-04-2017, 09:20 PM
Absolutely not. Relegation could have devastated our club, and the staggering incompetence which caused it still makes me shudder.

All the work that's gone into rebuilding us from the depths we'd fallen to would have been infinitely easier if we'd stayed up.

The relegation of Hearts and liquidation of Rangers represented a unique opportunity and we missed out big time. Look at where Aberdeen are, well established in 2nd with a really solid squad of high quality spl players. That should be us. Imagine all the players we've missed out on because players didn't fancy the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, we look in a pretty strong position going up, but we're miles away from where we could have been.

PatHead
29-04-2017, 09:48 PM
Absolutely not. Relegation could have devastated our club, and the staggering incompetence which caused it still makes me shudder.

All the work that's gone into rebuilding us from the depths we'd fallen to would have been infinitely easier if we'd stayed up.

The relegation of Hearts and liquidation of Rangers represented a unique opportunity and we missed out big time. Look at where Aberdeen are, well established in 2nd with a really solid squad of high quality spl players. That should be us. Imagine all the players we've missed out on because players didn't fancy the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, we look in a pretty strong position going up, but we're miles away from where we could have been.

Couldn't agree more.

Baldy Foghorn
29-04-2017, 09:56 PM
Absolutely not. Relegation could have devastated our club, and the staggering incompetence which caused it still makes me shudder.

All the work that's gone into rebuilding us from the depths we'd fallen to would have been infinitely easier if we'd stayed up.

The relegation of Hearts and liquidation of Rangers represented a unique opportunity and we missed out big time. Look at where Aberdeen are, well established in 2nd with a really solid squad of high quality spl players. That should be us. Imagine all the players we've missed out on because players didn't fancy the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, we look in a pretty strong position going up, but we're miles away from where we could have been.

:top marks

Golden Bear
29-04-2017, 09:59 PM
Absolutely not. Relegation could have devastated our club, and the staggering incompetence which caused it still makes me shudder.

All the work that's gone into rebuilding us from the depths we'd fallen to would have been infinitely easier if we'd stayed up.

The relegation of Hearts and liquidation of Rangers represented a unique opportunity and we missed out big time. Look at where Aberdeen are, well established in 2nd with a really solid squad of high quality spl players. That should be us. Imagine all the players we've missed out on because players didn't fancy the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, we look in a pretty strong position going up, but we're miles away from where we could have been.

Great post Dom.

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 10:17 PM
Absolutely not. Relegation could have devastated our club, and the staggering incompetence which caused it still makes me shudder.

All the work that's gone into rebuilding us from the depths we'd fallen to would have been infinitely easier if we'd stayed up.

The relegation of Hearts and liquidation of Rangers represented a unique opportunity and we missed out big time. Look at where Aberdeen are, well established in 2nd with a really solid squad of high quality spl players. That should be us. Imagine all the players we've missed out on because players didn't fancy the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, we look in a pretty strong position going up, but we're miles away from where we could have been.
Honestly I give up. How can people not understand what I'm saying? Relegation happened whether we liked it or not. When it happened did we seize the opportunity and take the chance to rebuild our club. Imo yes we did. Going down has been the making of our club. If we'd stayed up would that have been the case? Not in imo.

northstandhibby
29-04-2017, 10:22 PM
Honestly I give up. How can people not understand what I'm saying? Relegation happened whether we liked it or not. When it happened did we seize the opportunity and take the chance to rebuild our club. Imo yes we did. Going down has been the making of our club. If we'd stayed up would that have been the case? Not in imo.

I don't get it either. We won the holy grail with a team of heroes which would in all honesty never have happened but for the last 3 years. I would have taken the cup over even being second in the top league of which is hypothetical. But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

glory glory

lord bunberry
29-04-2017, 10:29 PM
I don't get it either. We won the holy grail with a team of heroes which would in all honesty never have happened but for the last 3 years. I would have taken the cup over even being second in the top league of which is hypothetical. But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

glory glory
That's what I'm trying to say. We got relegated in pretty poor circumstances, but since then we've came back and won the cup and dominated our city rivals. Things right now are pretty good. 3 years ago things were catastrophically bad. To summarise things are better now.

northstandhibby
29-04-2017, 10:35 PM
That's what I'm trying to say. We got relegated in pretty poor circumstances, but since then we've came back and won the cup and dominated our city rivals. Things right now are pretty good. 3 years ago things were catastrophically bad. To summarise things are better now.

100%

That's another reason to be very happy of indeed. I've never seen the Yams so despondent and so afraid of us. Winning the holy grail against the huns and sending the Yams into utter depression has been fabulous.

Onwards and upwards bud.

:flag:

Glory Glory to the Hi bees

tamig
29-04-2017, 11:07 PM
People aren't missing the point, there's just not much deference between being glad at the time and glad now it's happened and we are back up.

I fail to see why it was necessary then or now. We are pretty much back where we started. We can say the team and club are much improved when we are doing better than we have done previously. Bear in mind that we've been very critical of teams and managers like Hughes that got us 4th previously. In the scheme of things we've still got a bit to go.
Pretty much back to where we started? You really think that? I don't think the club has been in as healthy a position or as full of optimism for a long long time. What's your benchmark as to the starting point we've now returned to? Your pining for Yogi is quite amusing. We limped over the line to 4th that season having had a commanding lead in 3rd for a long time. His attitude after the 6-6 farce was unforgiveable.

Criswell
29-04-2017, 11:15 PM
I will never fully forgive the people I feel were responsible for us being relegated; putting all the blame on Terry Butcher is nonsense! The club had been run shambolically for years.

Jim44
29-04-2017, 11:56 PM
Absolutely not. Relegation could have devastated our club, and the staggering incompetence which caused it still makes me shudder.

All the work that's gone into rebuilding us from the depths we'd fallen to would have been infinitely easier if we'd stayed up.

The relegation of Hearts and liquidation of Rangers represented a unique opportunity and we missed out big time. Look at where Aberdeen are, well established in 2nd with a really solid squad of high quality spl players. That should be us. Imagine all the players we've missed out on because players didn't fancy the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, we look in a pretty strong position going up, but we're miles away from where we could have been.

:agree::agree::agree:

Pete
30-04-2017, 12:02 AM
We were relegated and it didn't devastate our club. We won the Scottish cup and are back in the top league with record crowds and a good team.

If we hadn't been relegated then who knows. We might have made these changes anyway or we might not have...it's all hypothetical and nobody knows.

So yes, I'm glad we were relegated and things turned out the way they did.



Edit...I definitely don't want to be relegated again though.

Baader
30-04-2017, 12:14 AM
Was angry for a long time that we allowed relegation to happen. The club had been on a downward spiral for a long time, beginning with disasterous appointments like the disgrace that was Calderwood. Still boils my blood to think an idiot like that was allowed near our club and what's worse, we wasted money sacking him when we could have gotten rid and made a profit.

The writing had long been on the wall for relegation and seeing clubs like Inverness, St Johnstone and Kilmarnock doing better on a fraction of our budget shows how criminally mismanaged the club was - on the park at least.

But we've come back up in a much better state and with the greatest win in all our lifetimes. A club on the up. Hibs forever.

:flag:

Mantis Toboggan
30-04-2017, 01:44 AM
Don't know how anyone can put a positive spin on it. Set us back a lot. We should have been aiming for a high place finish while hearts were away and the new club working their way through the leagues.

Aye those 2 are getting it lit up right enough.
They are both *****. We will finish ahead of them next year.

Mantis Toboggan
30-04-2017, 01:46 AM
We were relegated and it didn't devastate our club. We won the Scottish cup and are back in the top league with record crowds and a good team.

If we hadn't been relegated then who knows. We might have made these changes anyway or we might not have...it's all hypothetical and nobody knows.

So yes, I'm glad we were relegated and things turned out the way they did.



Edit...I definitely don't want to be relegated again though.

Someone who gets it. And has read the thread.

spike220
30-04-2017, 04:16 AM
Nope absolutely not.

I can't believe this is even being asked to be honest.

Is that you Terry??

Dom'sFirstTouch
30-04-2017, 07:39 AM
Honestly I give up. How can people not understand what I'm saying? Relegation happened whether we liked it or not. When it happened did we seize the opportunity and take the chance to rebuild our club. Imo yes we did. Going down has been the making of our club. If we'd stayed up would that have been the case? Not in imo.

Yes I do understand, and I absolutely agree the work done since relegation by Leeann, Stubbs, Lennon etc has been outstanding and we're going up in a remarkably strong state and I'm incredibly happy at that. We could have crumbled but we rose to the challenge and that's brilliant :thumbsup:.

Imo we absolutely did NOT have to go down and spend 3 years in the Championship for that to happen though. We were a shambles and needed a complete rebuild whatever league we were in and the new club hierarchy knew that. I'm very confident Leeann would have quickly punted Butcher, and all the the brilliant work done on infrastructure/community outreach/reconnection with fans etc would have been done anyway. We've missed out on a unique opportunity to really establish ourselves as the second best team in Scotland. Will that ever come again?

Ultimately the feel good factor (and huge season ticket sales) is down to the cup win more than anything else. Did relegation have to happen for that? I suppose we'll never know but we'd got to back-to-back finals prior to relegation so we'd been pretty close.

I'm not trying to be negative, I love where Hibs are at a club right now. It feels like we could be on the cusp of some pretty special times. I just don't agree that relegation was a necessary catalyst for all the brilliant work and amazing support by the fans which has made that happen. Anyway, onwards and upwards now:hibees.

Andy74
30-04-2017, 08:14 AM
Pretty much back to where we started? You really think that? I don't think the club has been in as healthy a position or as full of optimism for a long long time. What's your benchmark as to the starting point we've now returned to? Your pining for Yogi is quite amusing. We limped over the line to 4th that season having had a commanding lead in 3rd for a long time. His attitude after the 6-6 farce was unforgiveable.

Fine and when we get back to limping to 4th then great.

Andy74
30-04-2017, 08:18 AM
Honestly I give up. How can people not understand what I'm saying? Relegation happened whether we liked it or not. When it happened did we seize the opportunity and take the chance to rebuild our club. Imo yes we did. Going down has been the making of our club. If we'd stayed up would that have been the case? Not in imo.

I think you're not really understanding the answers either. The way you pose the question is pretty much impossible to answer as we've not seen whether we are back or moved on from where we were other than that shocking six months.

It's also not possible to know what would have happened at the club had we stayed up.

PatHead
30-04-2017, 08:25 AM
That's what I'm trying to say. We got relegated in pretty poor circumstances, but since then we've came back and won the cup and dominated our city rivals. Things right now are pretty good. 3 years ago things were catastrophically bad. To summarise things are better now.

I don't disagree that things are better now than when we went down. What I do disagree is that being relegated was the catalyst in making it happen. So in answer to your question I am not happy we got relegated. We should be where Aberdeen are just now and will be in a couple of years hopefully when they are spending money on a new stadium.