Forster implies Hibs only turn it on for the bigger games/TV cameras

[G B Young]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/jordon-forster-cites-tv-factor-in-hibs-inconsistency-1-4397245

I don't know if these remarks have been highlighted for the sake of a story but there's certainly a ring of truth about them. Of late, the best we've played has been against Hearts and Ayr United (with the Sportscene cameras in attendance), while we looked up for the challenges against the Arabs the other week in front of the BT Sport cameras. Similarly we produced another fine display in the 3-0 win over United at ER.

[Elephant Stone]

If any of the players need a TV camera to motivate them to play for Hibs then it would be good if they got themselves to **** after the season finishes.

[Broken Gnome]

If any Hibs player still can't get themselves up for these games, given our inability to beat such teams for three years now is the main reason we're still in this pishy league, they need dropped.

[Forza Fred]

Well, they've been psih sometimes when I watch them live on Hibs TV!

[--------]

Well, they've been psih sometimes when I watch them live on Hibs TV!


I'm not sure whether it's to do with TV coverage, complacency against 'weaker' teams, or just plain laziness, but there's a problem and it's reaching the stage where it could affect our final league position.

Personally, I think we've a nasty touch of the Leicesters.

[Smartie]

I'm not sure whether it's to do with TV coverage, complacency against 'weaker' teams, or just plain laziness, but there's a problem and it's reaching the stage where it could affect our final league position.

Personally, I think we've a nasty touch of the Leicesters.

As in they won't play for the manager?

I disagree. The squad loved Stubbs but had a horrific run of results at this stage last season.

I simply don't think we have a good enough squad. We don't have enough reliable options to hurt teams in the final third. We don't have the pace or intensity to put teams on the back foot from the first whistle.

I still think/ hope we'll get away with it this season. The cup winning squad deserved the chance to stay together and have another crack at it. But we haven't improved anything like enough on a squad that fell short last season and we need to address it this summer free of any sentiment.

There's a lot of talk of "we should be good enough to beat part time teams" blah blah blah. We should be but we're not. Our results against the bottom teams this season have consistently been abysmal, and if any of the other teams around us had done their job properly we would be in serious trouble.

[heretoday]

Forster seems to have a lot to say for himself.

[hibbie02]

They played Dunfie on TV and after the first 15 minutes they were awful. Should have strolled that but were lucky to escape with a draw in the end.

[--------]

As in they won't play for the manager?

I disagree. The squad loved Stubbs but had a horrific run of results at this stage last season.

I simply don't think we have a good enough squad. We don't have enough reliable options to hurt teams in the final third. We don't have the pace or intensity to put teams on the back foot from the first whistle.

I still think/ hope we'll get away with it this season. The cup winning squad deserved the chance to stay together and have another crack at it. But we haven't improved anything like enough on a squad that fell short last season and we need to address it this summer free of any sentiment.

There's a lot of talk of "we should be good enough to beat part time teams" blah blah blah. We should be but we're not. Our results against the bottom teams this season have consistently been abysmal, and if any of the other teams around us had done their job properly we would be in serious trouble.


You're probably right, mate. I'm just getting heartily sick of all this deja vu all over and over again.

We either have a good enough squad who are underperforming, or the squad's not good enough. They can raise their game for a one-off Cup-tie, or once in a while in a 'big' game in the League, but week-by-week consistency seems too much to expect.

[HappyAsHellas]

If what Forster is saying has a few of the players take a good look at themselves then it might be a good thing. Keep performing as we are and we have the ability to throw it all away, which doesn't bear thinking about.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Forster seems to have a lot to say for himself.

This statement seems to be a bit of a Scots phenomenon - why do we do this? Does this phrase even exist stateside?

It was an interview. He responds to questions. Would be a bit pants if he just replied "no comment"...

[ekhibee]

If players are deliberately only performing on certain occasions it's an absolute disgrace and they should be dropped, end of. I actually got the impression some of them were at it the season we got relegated, but that's just a personal opinion.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Forster seems to have a lot to say for himself.

To be fair, he's bang on the money here.

[KWJ]

I simply don't think we have a good enough squad. We don't have enough reliable options to hurt teams in the final third. We don't have the pace or intensity to put teams on the back foot from the first whistle.



I agree and disagree.

I think we've got by far the best squad in the league however they don't have that Celtic mentality of grinding out wins against teams that are playing above themselves because they are up for it. That's what we're facing just now and I don't think there's any shame on our players not matching the effort of our opposition because you simply can't play like every games is a cup final.

That said our quality, combined with a winning, mentality should be enough to get us through in the way that Celtic do and generally OF teams of old and other league winners.

It's not ideal but the positive is that we're not losing these games like we did last season and are still picking up vital points when our backs against the wall. Who minds Hibs 0 Morton 3 - That was 13 months ago.

[matty_f]

I think it's too simplistic to say we only turn it on for the cameras. For a start, there are other factors - why, for instance, do the TV cameras pick certain games? They pick them because they expect them to be competitive and open - there's a good chance that we'd play well in these games whether the cameras were there or not (see the derby replays over the last two seasons as examples - neither were live on TV, both produced fantastic performances.)

The opposition tend not to do what Dumbarton did on Saturday when the games are on TV. Dumbarton had all 11 men within 40 yeards of their own goal for huge chunks of the game. Nade effectively played as a holding midfielder at times, and there was very little attempt to attack us.

So we huffed and puffed trying to play through a packed defence - what we needed to do was to start lumping balls into the box as we did late on when we started to get some joy out of the game - it's not pretty but it is effective.

We do appear to play better when the games are bigger, but I genuinely don't think that's solely down to a lack of effort or motivation on the players' part - there are other contributing factors.

[Spooky]

As in they won't play for the manager?

I disagree. The squad loved Stubbs but had a horrific run of results at this stage last season.

I simply don't think we have a good enough squad. We don't have enough reliable options to hurt teams in the final third. We don't have the pace or intensity to put teams on the back foot from the first whistle.

I still think/ hope we'll get away with it this season. The cup winning squad deserved the chance to stay together and have another crack at it. But we haven't improved anything like enough on a squad that fell short last season and we need to address it this summer free of any sentiment.

There's a lot of talk of "we should be good enough to beat part time teams" blah blah blah. We should be but we're not. Our results against the bottom teams this season have consistently been abysmal, and if any of the other teams around us had done their job properly we would be in serious trouble.

Hope I have highlighted the correct bits (???)

But, being a very old Hibee, I can remember "many, many seasons" where Hibs just cracked up after the New Year. Even going back to Turnbull's brilliant team(s) we always capitulated in January/February/March(?).

Would love some stato to come up with facts to see how close this is true.

Lets hope we can turn things around quickly, as Morton (and damage by Falkirk) could bite us in the bum.

[JimBHibees]

Not so sure a guy who cant get into the team has any right to say that to be honest.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Hope I have highlighted the correct bits (???)

But, being a very old Hibee, I can remember "many, many seasons" where Hibs just cracked up after the New Year. Even going back to Turnbull's brilliant team(s) we always capitulated in January/February/March(?).

Would love some stato to come up with facts to see how close this is true.

Lets hope we can turn things around quickly, as Morton (and damage by Falkirk) could bite us in the bum.

I decided to have a look back at our first and second half of seasons since we got promoted to the SPL in 1999.

While we have tended to have a better first half to second half, it isn't as gaping as I would have expected. Although the seasons where we get a better average in the 2nd half of the season tends to be when theres a managerial change. Butcher being the obvious exclusion from that rule.

If we continue to average 1.9 points per game over the next 8, we'll finish on 70pts. That will be touch and go, but I reckon it'll be enough to get us up in 1st.


season first half second half avg first half points mid season managerial changes
99/00 21 20 1.11 1.05
00/01 41 25 2.16 1.32
01/02 20 21 1.05 1.11 McLeish/Sauzee/Williamson
02/03 26 25 1.37 1.32
03/04 22 22 1.16 1.16 Williamson/McCabe
04/05 33 28 1.74 1.47
05/06 37 19 1.95 1.00
06/07 26 23 1.37 1.21 Mowbray/Collins
07/08 28 24 1.47 1.26 Collins/Mixu
08/09 26 21 1.37 1.11
09/10 33 21 1.74 1.11
10/11 16 21 0.84 1.11 Hughes/Calderwood
11/12 14 19 0.74 1.00 Calderwood/Fenlon
12/13 28 23 1.47 1.21
13/14 24 11 1.26 0.58 Fenlon/Butcher
14/15 31 39 1.72 2.17
15/16 41 29 2.28 1.61
16/17 36 19 2.00 1.90

[ancient hibee]

Presumably you would expect the second half of the season to be slightly poorer as it includes 5 games in the top 6.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Presumably you would expect the second half of the season to be slightly poorer as it includes 5 games in the top 6.

99/00 was only 10 teams. 7 of the next 14 seasons we were in the bottom 6.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Presumably you would expect the second half of the season to be slightly poorer as it includes 5 games in the top 6.

I've added in top6/bottom 6 finish. Some correlation to what you say.

season first half second half avg first half points mid season managerial changes
99/00 21 20 1.11 1.05
00/01 41 25 2.16 1.32 top
01/02 20 21 1.05 1.11 bottom McLeish/Sauzee/Williamson
02/03 26 25 1.37 1.32 bottom
03/04 22 22 1.16 1.16 bottom Williamson/McCabe
04/05 33 28 1.74 1.47 top
05/06 37 19 1.95 1.00 top
06/07 26 23 1.37 1.21 top Mowbray/Collins
07/08 28 24 1.47 1.26 top Collins/Mixu
08/09 26 21 1.37 1.11 top
09/10 33 21 1.74 1.11 top
10/11 16 21 0.84 1.11 bottom Hughes/Calderwood
11/12 14 19 0.74 1.00 bottom Calderwood/Fenlon
12/13 28 23 1.47 1.21 bottom
13/14 24 11 1.26 0.58 bottom Fenlon/Butcher
14/15 31 39 1.72 2.17
15/16 41 29 2.28 1.61
16/17 36 19 2.00 1.90

[ancient hibee]

I've added in top6/bottom 6 finish. Some correlation to what you say.

season first half second half avg first half points mid season managerial changes
99/00 21 20 1.11 1.05
00/01 41 25 2.16 1.32 top
01/02 20 21 1.05 1.11 bottom McLeish/Sauzee/Williamson
02/03 26 25 1.37 1.32 bottom
03/04 22 22 1.16 1.16 bottom Williamson/McCabe
04/05 33 28 1.74 1.47 top
05/06 37 19 1.95 1.00 top
06/07 26 23 1.37 1.21 top Mowbray/Collins
07/08 28 24 1.47 1.26 top Collins/Mixu
08/09 26 21 1.37 1.11 top
09/10 33 21 1.74 1.11 top
10/11 16 21 0.84 1.11 bottom Hughes/Calderwood
11/12 14 19 0.74 1.00 bottom Calderwood/Fenlon
12/13 28 23 1.47 1.21 bottom
13/14 24 11 1.26 0.58 bottom Fenlon/Butcher
14/15 31 39 1.72 2.17
15/16 41 29 2.28 1.61
16/17 36 19 2.00 1.90

The same for goals against now please.:greengrin

[pedroorange1875]

Waste of time implying that, its been obvious all season. Dont need an article from one of our players to confirm it

[scooby]

As in they won't play for the manager?

I disagree. The squad loved Stubbs but had a horrific run of results at this stage last season.

I simply don't think we have a good enough squad. We don't have enough reliable options to hurt teams in the final third. We don't have the pace or intensity to put teams on the back foot from the first whistle.

I still think/ hope we'll get away with it this season. The cup winning squad deserved the chance to stay together and have another crack at it. But we haven't improved anything like enough on a squad that fell short last season and we need to address it this summer free of any sentiment.

There's a lot of talk of "we should be good enough to beat part time teams" blah blah blah. We should be but we're not. Our results against the bottom teams this season have consistently been abysmal, and if any of the other teams around us had done their job properly we would be in serious trouble.

Bang on the money with that post.

[BSEJVT]

I don't think it this at all

The simple truth is we have never worked out how to break down teams who sit in

We fare better against teams who give us the space to play in

I don't think its any more complicated than that.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Not so sure a guy who cant get into the team has any right to say that to be honest.

But who in the first eleven would actually admit to that?

[Centre Hawf]

Jordans not saying the players aren't up for the non TV games. He's merely saying that our form is different between tv and non tv games. This is something a lot of people have said recently. I think he's more saying it from the perspective that it isn't good enough and something they need to fix asap so I think some people need to calm down a bit.

[ancient hibee]

Don't think that's right.He's saying it's a mental problem.In other words they're only up for certain games.It's not form it's mindset.

[Jim44]

If our players actually do have attitude problems with regard to TV performances, the calibre of teams we play against, etc. one word describes them ............ unprofessional.

[Vini1875]

I expect the team to play the next two games like cup finals. I expect them all to know and understand just how important it is to win.

[J-C]

I like Forster and maybe he's saying this to maybe get the managers reaction and give him a starting slot.

I've watched us since we've went down and even under Stubbs it was all tippy tappy slow build up allowing these teams to drop back and get organised.

I can bet if you look at threads/posts from the last 2 seasons you'll see punters moaning about lack of width/pace and tempo.

Both Hearts and then Rangers won this league by playing wide players and at a high tempo and pace, this is why they got the number of penalties also, running at defences with pace will always give you more penalties.

Our play is ponderous and easy to play against, watch Celtic they're at it from the first whistle, high tempo, in opponents faces for 90 mins and quick on the attack.

[21.05.2016]

The two games coming up are two of the biggest games of the season so far. Yes, the hearts game might be seen as the more glamerous tie with it being against our biggest city rivals, on the TV, in front of a full house, under the floodlights etc but these upcoming games are far more important.

If the players can't get themselves up for games that could prove crucial in getting us promoted then they may as well not even bother being here.

[Hibby Bairn]

I give you DU away in December. Morton away in December. Dunfy at home a few weeks ago. All on tv. All crap.

[Nicho87]

Players need to realise we don't get promoted they won't be getting new contracts. Of course that's assuming they want one.

[HibernianJK]

I wouldn't think for a minute that it is intentional but it may be subconscious that when the TV cameras are there, the are more eager to impress.

[Andy74]

I don't think it this at all

The simple truth is we have never worked out how to break down teams who sit in

We fare better against teams who give us the space to play in

I don't think its any more complicated than that.

Yep, pretty much.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I wouldn't think for a minute that it is intentional but it may be subconscious that when the TV cameras are there, the are more eager to impress.

Has not Lennon said that playing under floodlights is summit special - have meny of the bigger game not been played st night?

[JimBHibees]

But who in the first eleven would actually admit to that?

Because it is a bit of a cheap shot could see the point if Forster was playing out of his skin whenever he plays but very much a peripheral player and has been for years. Nothing to do with effort IMO more to do that we lack creativity when a team sits in. We just aren't a very good team at times.

[JimBHibees]

I don't think it this at all

The simple truth is we have never worked out how to break down teams who sit in

We fare better against teams who give us the space to play in

I don't think its any more complicated than that.

Totally agree we don't have a lot of creative players you need to break teams down. Dylan and Shinnie are probably the best 2 and one is rarely available and the other a bit hit and miss.

[familyman]

I expect the team to play the next two games like cup finals. I expect them all to know and understand just how important it is to win.
If players do not learn then they must be moved on simple!

[hhibs]

Hope I have highlighted the correct bits (???)

But, being a very old Hibee, I can remember "many, many seasons" where Hibs just cracked up after the New Year. Even going back to Turnbull's brilliant team(s) we always capitulated in January/February/March(?).

Would love some stato to come up with facts to see how close this is true.

Lets hope we can turn things around quickly, as Morton (and damage by Falkirk) could bite us in the bum.


Yep,unfortunately all to true ,it seems to be a huge and as you say historic problem.

[Bristolhibby]

I like Forster and maybe he's saying this to maybe get the managers reaction and give him a starting slot.

I've watched us since we've went down and even under Stubbs it was all tippy tappy slow build up allowing these teams to drop back and get organised.

I can bet if you look at threads/posts from the last 2 seasons you'll see punters moaning about lack of width/pace and tempo.

Both Hearts and then Rangers won this league by playing wide players and at a high tempo and pace, this is why they got the number of penalties also, running at defences with pace will always give you more penalties.

Our play is ponderous and easy to play against, watch Celtic they're at it from the first whistle, high tempo, in opponents faces for 90 mins and quick on the attack.

What's soooo frustrating is that us normal punters can see this in spades.

Yet three seasons later we are making the same mistakes.

Albert Einstein said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

This is Hibs in a nutshell.

Pace, width, aggression, attitude, mixing in diagonals, running at space with the ball, into space without it.

It's not rocket science. Teams should be reeling against us after 10 minutes and hopefully a couple of goals down.

Do not give them the opportunity to sit back in banks of four.

J

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

What's soooo frustrating is that us normal punters can see this in spades.

Yet three seasons later we are making the same mistakes.

Albert Einstein said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

This is Hibs in a nutshell.

Pace, width, aggression, attitude, mixing in diagonals, running at space with the ball, into space without it.

It's not rocket science. Teams should be reeling against us after 10 minutes and hopefully a couple of goals down.

Do not give them the opportunity to sit back in banks of four.

J

:agree: