Ann Budge.

[Thecat23]

Right I'm not clued up on her dealings with that mob over the road so was wondering after hearing she wants another £3m from fans if this was part of her plan?

Seems to me she's taking them for a ride here and wasn't she meant to hand the club over to the fans as well?

[Betty Boop]

She seems to be doing a great job considering the state they were when she came in.

[northstandhibby]

She seems to be doing a great job considering the state they were when she came in.

She certainly is. Under 'Queen Ann's' reign Robbie Replay won them a fantastic money spinner and look what happened. We only went on to win the Cup. Well done Queen Ann!!!

:cup:

Two up and we won the Cup, Two up and we won the Cup.

[hibsbollah]

3,000,000/400,000=£7.50 each.

Quite achievable for the big team surely?

[The goalie]

3,000,000/400,000=£7.50 each.

Quite achievable for the big team surely?


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/figures-reveal-hearts-fans-handed-9459022


The thing is, they have already agreed 3 million, other "mystery benefactors" have chipped in 2.5 mill and now they want another 3 million to cover the shortfall.
This is after work has started! Thats no way to run a building contract!
So to recap, the fans will cough up 8.5 mil and still not own the club or 5.5 and not have a finished stand! I thought all the mone was in place?

[calumhibee1]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/figures-reveal-hearts-fans-handed-9459022


The thing is, they have already agreed 3 million, other "mystery benefactors" have chipped in 2.5 mill and now they want another 3 million to cover the shortfall.
This is after work has started! Thats no way to run a building contract!
So to recap, the fans will cough up 8.5 mil and still not own the club or 5.5 and not have a finished stand! I thought all the mone was in place?

She's taking them for a ride.

[Keith_M]

Two questions:


In the two years since the share deal was announced, how much have Hearts Fans paid in so far to buy their club?

How many share certificates have been issued to said Hearts Fans as part of that scheme?


I don't know the answer to the first question but I'm pretty sure I know the second.

[Peevemor]

I think that she's of a similar mindset to Sir Tom Farmer, but with less financial clout.

Over a fairly lengthy period of time, STF has rebuilt the stadium, been paid some interest on his loans to the club, written off a fair bit of cash he's put into the club and has now put a scheme in place for the fans to buy the club, by instalments, for a reduced price.

Anne Budge will eventually do the same thing - the difference being that she's making the fans pay as much as possible up front. This is fair enough IMO as there's no reason why she should have all the risk.

I honestly believe that her intentions are honourable.

[The goalie]

Two questions:


In the two years since the share deal was announced, how much have Hearts Fans paid in so far to buy their club?

How many share certificates have been issued to said Hearts Fans as part of that scheme?


I don't know the answer to the first question but I'm pretty sure I know the second.

They have already handed over 5 million of their hard earned cash and good on them for doing that for their club.

[AndyM_1875]

They have already handed over 5 million of their hard earned cash and good on them for doing that for their club.

Fair play indeed but was the bulk of that was not actually in buying equity in the club. It was giving it working capital which allowed for some pretty expensive purchases on relatively expensive wages.

Mrs B has gone pretty lukewarm on Hearts being a "fan-owned" club.

[KeithTheHibby]

Why do they not just go to the bank for a loan for the remainder? They are not exactly a basket case club like the Huns and I'm sure banks would give them the wonga?

[Sioux]

A quick look on the runt forum and no mention of any shortfall in funding. It would appear that they treat bad, or not so good, news in their normal way. Ignore it and pretend it's not happening.

[Thecat23]

Why do they not just go to the bank for a loan for the remainder? They are not exactly a basket case club like the Huns and I'm sure banks would give them the wonga?

Banks won't touch any football club in Scotland after what's happened before. Lost millions!

[greenginger]

I still can't get a good reason why Brian Cormack quit so suddenly as Chairman of Foundation of Hearts and his position as a Heart's director.

He was in the Foundation at the very start and obviously a dyed in the wool Jambo, so why suddenly quit ?Things were looking pretty decent on the pitch and a directors post with all the perks must have been good.

They don't even have a replacement Chairman for the Foundation lined up and have a stand-in until an election is held next year.

All rather strange . :confused:

[Bostonhibby]

Two questions:


In the two years since the share deal was announced, how much have Hearts Fans paid in so far to buy their club?

How many share certificates have been issued to said Hearts Fans as part of that scheme?


I don't know the answer to the first question but I'm pretty sure I know the second.
I can only answer the second part. One fan has all the shares, so it is a form of fan ownership.

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[O'Rourke3]

I think she's played a blinder and she's not taking the proverbial. They want their club to survive so they have to pay. The fact there's a £3M shortfall is because no-one will lend. Real life.

I think she may be one of the 3 mystery benefactors, the same 3 mystery benefactors who have made a huge donation to Charity to enable the club to display their logo on those turdish coloured shirts.

I also think she'll bale them out but the conditions and terms of the FOH deal would need adjusted. This will be played everywhere as she shafted them but in reality they were deid and now they aren't. The masses won't see that though.

My other prediction is Lord FFFFoulkes will wave poppies and describe the club as Scottish Treasure. He hates being off camera.

[Bostonhibby]

Fair play indeed but was the bulk of that was not actually in buying equity in the club. It was giving it working capital which allowed for some pretty expensive purchases on relatively expensive wages.

Mrs B has gone pretty lukewarm on Hearts being a "fan-owned" club.
The cash (+6.5% interest) was indeed meant to be for buying shares in their club. Now it's building budge a stand, whatever will she think of next?

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[Moulin Yarns]

I still can't get a good reason why Brian Cormack quit so suddenly as Chairman of Foundation of Hearts and his position as a Heart's director.

He was in the Foundation at the very start and obviously a dyed in the wool Jambo, so why suddenly quit ?Things were looking pretty decent on the pitch and a directors post with all the perks must have been good.

They don't even have a replacement Chairman for the Foundation lined up and have a stand-in until an election is held next year.

All rather strange . :confused:

All I can see is his business commitments take him abroad a lot of time so he can't be as committed to FOH or Hearts. Seems reasonable to me. The timing, after Cathro was appointed coach, is probably just a coincidence.

[FranckSuzy]

I can only answer the second part. One fan has all the shares, so it is a form of fan ownership.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

Brilliant K, as ever :tee hee:

[greenginger]

IIRC the Foundation cash was used first to pay the Club's football debts left by the Lith's.

Then , for 2 years they would provide around £ 1 million working capital for the club, some of which would go to Mrs Budge for the interest on her £ 2.5 million outlay to buy the Club from the administrators.

After that the Foundation cash was going to pay down Mrs B's outlay an the club would be transferred to the Foundation.

But, a brand new Budgie Stand Project arose so the scarf twirillers have to pay for that first.

[Bostonhibby]

Brilliant K, as ever :tee hee:
I probably need to get out more, but it's like shooting fish in a barrel[emoji1]

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[Is It On....]

3,000,000/400,000=£7.50 each.

Quite achievable for the big team surely?

And 400,000 must be conservative as that was in June when the fan base was "growing and growing" according to the spokeswoman from the PBS...

[Beefster]

I honestly believe that her intentions are honourable.

They will be. Budge is no mug, won't sugar-coat anything and she's not a con-artist either. Unfortunately, she's exactly what Hearts needed given the supports' complete delusion prior to the charity and taxpayer shafting that they collectively perpetuated.

[Dashing Bob S]

Budge is wearing a massive strap-on, and is waiting at the entrance to every turnstile to give 400,000 customers an ungreased one up the jacksey. (If one can excuse the imagery.)

And they love it and keep coming back for more.

When all is said and done, you can only fleece those willing to be fleeced.

[Gingertosser]

I'm assuming one of the benefactors must be the Earl of Roseberry after all the fawning they did with the launch of the away strip and allowing his son Pandora to be the mascot.

[Thecat23]

Budge is wearing a massive strap-on, and is waiting at the entrance to every turnstile to give 400,000 customers an ungreased one up the jacksey. (If one can excuse the imagery.)

And they love it and keep coming back for more.

When all is said and done, you can only fleece those willing to be fleeced.

😂😂

[GreenLake]

It all seems to be made up as they go along and labeled pioneering.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm assuming one of the benefactors must be the Earl of Roseberry after all the fawning they did with the launch of the away strip and allowing his son Pandora to be the mascot.
Pandora? Wasn't it Persimmon or Parsnip or something like that?[emoji1]

Either way they take bowing and scraping to a new level each time they find someone or something new to doff their caps to.

They don't even bother to check their latest idol out first.

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[Marco G]

They will be. Budge is no mug, won't sugar-coat anything and she's not a con-artist either. Unfortunately, she's exactly what Hearts needed given the supports' complete delusion prior to the charity and taxpayer shafting that they collectively perpetuated.
But she aint "rich" either. So there is very little wiggle room when the FFH payments start to dry up as the Cathro debacle plays out.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm assuming one of the benefactors must be the Earl of Roseberry after all the fawning they did with the launch of the away strip and allowing his son Pandora to be the mascot.

F me, I bet he wasn't bullied at school :confused:

As far as Budge goes I sincerely don't think she has anything but good intentions for her beloved Yams, but the truth is that she isn't minted enough for the club to be a vanity project or a toy so she has to get a return for her money, that means the fans having to dig deep and all joking aside they have certainly done that.

This new stand project was inevitable, but it has moved the goalposts so far as fan ownership is concerned. Some of her utterances in the last few months have hinted that, as somebody else said, she appears to be cooling as regards to total fan ownership. I have to say that I kind of get where she is coming from, if a club is totally under control of its fans it leaves no scope for a rich dude to come in and splash the cash ...... that worries me when it comes to Hibs as well, to be honest I think a better model would be for individual fans to own enough of their clubs to be able to put up a barrier against anybody looking to asset strip it, but not enough to prevent somebody buying it and calling themselves owner.

In Germany the 50+1 rule works because clubs have massive fan bases and are still an attractive prospect for an outside investor to buy the remaining 49% ..... that's not the case in Scotland and as a result I worry about how after fan control is achieved it will be possible to attract the sort of investment that will enable clubs to move forward.

[Bostonhibby]

F me, I bet he wasn't bullied at school :confused:

As far as Budge goes I sincerely don't think she has anything but good intentions for her beloved Yams, but the truth is that she isn't minted enough for the club to be a vanity project or a toy so she has to get a return for her money, that means the fans having to dig deep and all joking aside they have certainly done that.

This new stand project was inevitable, but it has moved the goalposts so far as fan ownership is concerned. Some of her utterances in the last few months have hinted that, as somebody else said, she appears to be cooling as regards to total fan ownership. I have to say that I kind of get where she is coming from, if a club is totally under control of its fans it leaves no scope for a rich dude to come in and splash the cash ...... that worries me when it comes to Hibs as well, to be honest I think a better model would be for individual fans to own enough of their clubs to be able to put up a barrier against anybody looking to asset strip it, but not enough to prevent somebody buying it and calling themselves owner.

In Germany the 50+1 rule works because clubs have massive fan bases and are still an attractive prospect for an outside investor to buy the remaining 49% ..... that's not the case in Scotland and as a result I worry about how after fan control is achieved it will be possible to attract the sort of investment that will enable clubs to move forward.
This is where I am on our fan ownership, a meaningful protective share. The difference here is we never had the fanfare the yam did about their original model and it's intentions and they're already "moving the goalposts" or they'd like to anyway.

Another case of premature ejaculation and pie in the sky promises. In a couple of years time the cash will have built one stand, what next? Shares? [emoji1]

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[Sammy7nil]

And 400,000 must be conservative as that was in June when the fan base was "growing and growing" according to the spokeswoman from the PBS...

£7.50 each to raise the £3 million easy peasy

[hibs0666]

Right I'm not clued up on her dealings with that mob over the road so was wondering after hearing she wants another £3m from fans if this was part of her plan?

Seems to me she's taking them for a ride here and wasn't she meant to hand the club over to the fans as well?

She is making it up as she goes along. Imagine committing a 12 million project that is only 75% funded?

[ekhibee]

I was reading an article recently where it was talking about the financial situation at Arsenal. Of course they are a huge club who rake in millions each year, but the majority shareholder are Arsenal Holdings PLC, of whom Stan Kroenke (an American millionaire) is the majority shareholder. As of 2011 he owns just over 66% of the shareholding but is obliged to make an offer for the remaining shares under company law. The remaining shares, by the way, include shares owned by the Arsenal Supporters Trust. I wondered how this compares with the Hearts situation as regards share ownership, or is share ownership in Scotland different?

[Peevemor]

She is making it up as she goes along. Imagine committing a 12 million project that is only 75% funded?

Unless she's only committing to £9m of work in the first instance.

[Gingertosser]

I've checked & I must retract the suggestion that Lord Roseberry would call his son something stupid like Pandora.

His name is Caspian Primrose .....

[Moulin Yarns]

I've checked & I must retract the suggestion that Lord Roseberry would call his son something stupid like Pandora.

His name is Caspian Primrose .....

The current lord Rosebery is Neil Archibald Primrose, the son is Harry Ronald Neil Primrose

[Bostonhibby]

The current lord Rosebery is Neil Archibald Primrose, the son is Harry Ronald Neil Primrose
Is this the fellow?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276220/Turn-horrible-lights--I-feel-like-I-Auschwitz-Sothebys-chairman-forced-apologise-concentration-camp-joke-Tory-function.html

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[Gingertosser]

This was part of the vomit inducing press release from them...

The club is delighted that the longstanding support of the Rosebery dynasty has been assured as the club continues its remarkable journey. Son of the current the Earl of Rosebery, Lord Dalmeny is a keen Hearts fan and his son, Caspian Primrose proved to be a fine mascot for the team when he took to the field for the victorious end of season encounter against Aberdeen.

[Moulin Yarns]

Is this the fellow?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276220/Turn-horrible-lights--I-feel-like-I-Auschwitz-Sothebys-chairman-forced-apologise-concentration-camp-joke-Tory-function.html

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That's the son.! Born to be a twat.

[Bostonhibby]

Duplicate post

[JK Rolling]

Right I'm not clued up on her dealings with that mob over the road so was wondering after hearing she wants another £3m from fans if this was part of her plan?

Seems to me she's taking them for a ride here and wasn't she meant to hand the club over to the fans as well?


You would though wouldn't you.

[northstandhibby]

That's the son.! Born to be a twat.

Vile disgusting creature. In no way would I wish a sick twisted individual like him to be in any way involved with our football club.

Yam class indeed. Sick!!!

Lord Dalmeny - Sicko

[Bostonhibby]

That's the son.! Born to be a twat.
Yam class alright. Maybe they should get the trousers into the new yam shop in time for next Xmas. Perfect match for the maroon cardigans that proliferate every festive season.

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[CropleyWasGod]

I was reading an article recently where it was talking about the financial situation at Arsenal. Of course they are a huge club who rake in millions each year, but the majority shareholder are Arsenal Holdings PLC, of whom Stan Kroenke (an American millionaire) is the majority shareholder. As of 2011 he owns just over 66% of the shareholding but is obliged to make an offer for the remaining shares under company law. The remaining shares, by the way, include shares owned by the Arsenal Supporters Trust. I wondered how this compares with the Hearts situation as regards share ownership, or is share ownership in Scotland different?

Pretty sure that the percentage you mention is actually 90%. In any event, it only applies to Listed companies.

[Deansy]

The real son of George

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/MP'S+SON+IS+SOCCER+HOOLIGAN%3B+Yob+claimed+ministe r+dad+would+'trouble'...-a064963554

No denying he's a dyed-in-the-wool Muppet - packed full of a false sense of entitlement, every pore seeping arrogance and a hugely inflated, mistaken opinion of himself !

[Thecat23]

You would though wouldn't you.

I would what?

[Arch Stanton]

Two questions:


In the two years since the share deal was announced, how much have Hearts Fans paid in so far to buy their club?

How many share certificates have been issued to said Hearts Fans as part of that scheme?


I don't know the answer to the first question but I'm pretty sure I know the second.

Mind you fair play to them for chipping in as much as they have.

On the recent HSL thread the general view was to stop contributing until people had the actual certificate in their hands - to me thats taking it to the other extreme.

The Hibs support seem to mistrust their executive to the same degree that Hearts fans trust theirs - I fail to understand why it is that way round.

[northstandhibby]

The real son of George

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/MP'S+SON+IS+SOCCER+HOOLIGAN%3B+Yob+claimed+ministe r+dad+would+'trouble'...-a064963554

No denying he's a dyed-in-the-wool Muppet - packed full of a false sense of entitlement, every pore seeping arrogance and a hugely inflated, mistaken opinion of himself !

Probably obtained it from Pishy. Never liked him. Comes across as incongruously arrogant. Just like Dalmeny another tube.

Glory Glory

[ancient hibee]

Mind you fair play to them for chipping in as much as they have.

On the recent HSL thread the general view was to stop contributing until people had the actual certificate in their hands - to me thats taking it to the other extreme.

The Hibs support seem to mistrust their executive to the same degree that Hearts fans trust theirs - I fail to understand why it is that way round.


Presumably they don't trust HSL,nothing to do with the club.HSL buy shares from the club.What the individual donor gets from HSL is not a share in the club.

The reason the Hearts supporters trust their executive is that they have been taken for a ride so often that they think it's the correct way to behave.Also of course a lack of intellectual rigour doesn't help.

[Dashing Bob S]

Presumably they don't trust HSL,nothing to do with the club.HSL buy shares from the club.What the individual donor gets from HSL is not a share in the club.

The reason the Hearts supporters trust their executive is that they have been taken for a ride so often that they think it's the correct way to behave.Also of course a lack of intellectual rigour doesn't help.

The culture of the two clubs is different. One is about being cynical of the motives of those in authority, the other is about slavish deference to those in authority.

[ekhibee]

Pretty sure that the percentage you mention is actually 90%. In any event, it only applies to Listed companies.
It might well be if he's also bought the red and white holdings shares from Usmanov, but I'm not sure that he has. As far as I can see Kroenke holds 66.64%. Thanks anyway though, it obviously can't be compared.

[Arch Stanton]

Presumably they don't trust HSL,nothing to do with the club.HSL buy shares from the club.What the individual donor gets from HSL is not a share in the club.

The reason the Hearts supporters trust their executive is that they have been taken for a ride so often that they think it's the correct way to behave.Also of course a lack of intellectual rigour doesn't help.
"Presumably they don't trust HSL,nothing to do with the club." - it does seem that they don't trust HSl, doesn't it?

But for me the club and HSL are part and parcel of the same thing - that's the bit I don't get. If that divide could be bridged then it would be a big plus for Hibs.

HoMFC supporters, on the other hand, are most definitely riding a wave - lets hope it doesn't last too long. Logic dictates that it can't!

[Jack Hackett]

This was part of the vomit inducing press release from them...

The club is delighted that the longstanding support of the Rosebery dynasty has been assured as the club continues its remarkable journey. Son of the current the Earl of Rosebery, Lord Dalmeny is a keen Hearts fan and his son, Caspian Primrose proved to be a fine mascot for the team when he took to the field for the victorious end of season encounter against Aberdeen.

Wow! Change places and names (except Caspian Primrose...wouldn't change that for anything :greengrin) and that reads like something released by the North Koreans

[Bostonhibby]

Mind you fair play to them for chipping in as much as they have.

On the recent HSL thread the general view was to stop contributing until people had the actual certificate in their hands - to me thats taking it to the other extreme.

The Hibs support seem to mistrust their executive to the same degree that Hearts fans trust theirs - I fail to understand why it is that way round.

Eh, no.

Folk were chasing certificates to reflect their contribution to HSL, but every time HSL gets a tranche of cash they buy, and hold on behalf of contributing fans, shares in Hibs - that's where it's different from the yam model we buy because we want to rather than being the last show in town and shares actually do pass to the body we have elected to buy through - as distinct from the yam model - still no shares.

There was a delay in some folk getting their certificates but essentially you apply you get and the holding that HSL have is secure. Not spent on stands, deferral to meet the latest crisis or whatever budge wants to spend on next.

[green day]

Mind you fair play to them for chipping in as much as they have

On the recent HSL thread the general view was to stop contributing until people had the actual certificate in their hands - to me thats taking it to the other extreme.

The Hibs support seem to mistrust their executive to the same degree that Hearts fans trust theirs - I fail to understand why it is that way round.

Sorry, but that's a load of made up pish, that was not the "general view" at all.

For a real life tale, I got the email last week saying my DD was finished and to contact them for the certificate.

I don't give a monkeys about a certificate, but emailed them to restart my DD.

Jim Adie emailed me within a day and sorted it out straight away.

I'm happy to contribute forever if it helps bring premier league players and promotion.

It's only the tinfoil hat mob that think HSL is anything other than a good thing.

[Marco G]

Eh, no.

Folk were chasing certificates to reflect their contribution to HSL, but every time HSL gets a tranche of cash they buy, and hold on behalf of contributing fans, shares in Hibs - that's where it's different from the yam model we buy because we want to rather than being the last show in town and shares actually do pass to the body we have elected to buy through - as distinct from the yam model - still no shares.

There was a delay in some folk getting their certificates but essentially you apply you get and the holding that HSL have is secure. Not spent on stands, deferral to meet the latest crisis or whatever budge wants to spend on next.
100% correct. I am happy that my monthly dd goes to buying HSL -ie Hibs supporters - shares in the club, a percentage which is substantial now and steadily increasing. The point also is that the funds handed over to the club go to strengthening the team. The Hearts story is very different, one of contributing to keep the club afloat, and no share ownership until the distant future when all tbeir debts to AB are paid off!

[G B Young]

I'm guessing one way of raising further cash from fans will be to sell off bricks and bits of rubble from the old stand once it's demolished.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm guessing one way of raising further cash from fans will be to sell off bricks and bits of rubble from the old stand once it's demolished.
Putting asbestos into the community, the club that keeps on giving[emoji1]

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[lapsedhibee]

I'm guessing one way of raising further cash from fans will be to sell off bricks and bits of rubble from the old stand once it's demolished.

Won't the debris be so toxic that it'll have to be buried somewhere at the bottom of the ocean, in a lead container so that nothing can leitch out?

[Arch Stanton]

Sorry, but that's a load of made up pish, that was not the "general view" at all.

For a real life tale, I got the email last week saying my DD was finished and to contact them for the certificate.

I don't give a monkeys about a certificate, but emailed them to restart my DD.

Jim Adie emailed me within a day and sorted it out straight away.

I'm happy to contribute forever if it helps bring premier league players and promotion.

It's only the tinfoil hat mob that think HSL is anything other than a good thing.

The fact you personally were emailed, or that you personally don't care about a certificate, doesn't make what I said a load of made up pish I'm afraid.

I just checked and there are 4 posts specifically saying they weren't renewing until they received their certificate.

And OK, a lot of the thread was about people just commenting on or compalining about certificates so you could quible about me characterising a 'general view' but saying it is 'made up pish' is rediculous.

And as regards other posts pointing out that the uses of the funds collected are different. Well thanks, but I do realise that - that doesn't mean you can't compare the attitudes of the two sets of fans to funding the club, which is what I did.

[WhileTheChief..]

It's only the tinfoil hat mob that think HSL is anything other than a good thing.

Really?? Not everyone is keen on fan ownership. I think it's a crap idea.

[Arch Stanton]

Really?? Not everyone is keen on fan ownership. I think it's a crap idea.

Yea, but then the next question is whether you're in favour of football clubs and their assets being subject to market forces.

Things like asset stripping and mergers spring to mind in that regard.

I can't honestly see how things will be mightilly changed when fan ownership in Hibs reaches 51%

On the other hand, the club and its assets are secured with the money being raised being (hopefully) put to good use. Hard to see negatives myself.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Won't the debris be so toxic that it'll have to be buried somewhere at the bottom of the ocean, in a lead container so that nothing can leitch out?

Very good :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

Really?? Not everyone is keen on fan ownership. I think it's a crap idea.



Yea, but then the next question is whether you're in favour of football clubs and their assets being subject to market forces.

Things like asset stripping and mergers spring to mind in that regard.

I can't honestly see how things will be mightilly changed when fan ownership in Hibs reaches 51%

On the other hand, the club and its assets are secured with the money being raised being (hopefully) put to good use. Hard to see negatives myself.

Its not a crap idea as such ... but on the other hand it would be foolish to ignore the biggest problem fan ownership throws up, many clubs rely on mega rich folk to buy the club as an expensive toy, or a vanity project, or as in the case of the likes of the late Jack Walker at Blackburn something they love .... you cant ignore the benefits guys like that can bring to a club, many clubs survive on the back of these guys. The one thing the all look for is 'ownership' of the club though and if that's not possible because they cant achieve over 50% ownership it would be hard, if not impossible, to get them on board.

Over the last 30 years how many times have STF's millions enabled Hibs to keep going at the level we have? How many times has his guarantee enabled the club to borrow money?

As has been pointed out many times, no bank is now willing to lend Scottish clubs money .... so without access to a rich sugar daddy to bail us out when the time comes to build a new stand or if the club has a long period of failure on the pitch leading to a drop in crowds and we have no valuable players to sell, exactly where does the money come from?

That's why I am leaning more and more towards a fan ownership model where the fans own enough of the club to form an effective barrier to idiots and asset strippers, but not enough that any future mega rich person or company will be put off by not being able to call themselves 'owner' of Hibernian FC, which the can claim with a 51% shareholding, but cant with only 49%

[greenginger]

Its not a crap idea as such ... but on the other hand it would be foolish to ignore the biggest problem fan ownership throws up, many clubs rely on mega rich folk to buy the club as an expensive toy, or a vanity project, or as in the case of the likes of the late Jack Walker at Blackburn something they love .... you cant ignore the benefits guys like that can bring to a club, many clubs survive on the back of these guys. The one thing the all look for is 'ownership' of the club though and if that's not possible because they cant achieve over 50% ownership it would be hard, if not impossible, to get them on board.

Over the last 30 years how many times have STF's millions enabled Hibs to keep going at the level we have? How many times has his guarantee enabled the club to borrow money?

As has been pointed out many times, no bank is now willing to lend Scottish clubs money .... so without access to a rich sugar daddy to bail us out when the time comes to build a new stand or if the club has a long period of failure on the pitch leading to a drop in crowds and we have no valuable players to sell, exactly where does the money come from?

That's why I am leaning more and more towards a fan ownership model where the fans own enough of the club to form an effective barrier to idiots and asset strippers, but not enough that any future mega rich person or company will be put off by not being able to call themselves 'owner' of Hibernian FC, which the can claim with a 51% shareholding, but cant with only 49%


I think you can rest assured that at least 2% of fan's shares could be bought for the right price. :cb

[Marco G]

Its not a crap idea as such ... but on the other hand it would be foolish to ignore the biggest problem fan ownership throws up, many clubs rely on mega rich folk to buy the club as an expensive toy, or a vanity project, or as in the case of the likes of the late Jack Walker at Blackburn something they love .... you cant ignore the benefits guys like that can bring to a club, many clubs survive on the back of these guys. The one thing the all look for is 'ownership' of the club though and if that's not possible because they cant achieve over 50% ownership it would be hard, if not impossible, to get them on board.

Over the last 30 years how many times have STF's millions enabled Hibs to keep going at the level we have? How many times has his guarantee enabled the club to borrow money?

As has been pointed out many times, no bank is now willing to lend Scottish clubs money .... so without access to a rich sugar daddy to bail us out when the time comes to build a new stand or if the club has a long period of failure on the pitch leading to a drop in crowds and we have no valuable players to sell, exactly where does the money come from?

That's why I am leaning more and more towards a fan ownership model where the fans own enough of the club to form an effective barrier to idiots and asset strippers, but not enough that any future mega rich person or company will be put off by not being able to call themselves 'owner' of Hibernian FC, which the can claim with a 51% shareholding, but cant with only 49%
Bottom line - if the sugar daddies only want to do it so they can call themselves "owners" then I think it proves the case for fans holding 51%. It will not put off folk with funds who are happy to work with the fans but will discourage asset strippers or con men.
But say no external funders are around, then its up to the club to run itself within its means and not rely on borrowing money that cant be repaid. Afaik that is exactly the business model we are pursuing and its the one that gives us the best chance of thriving imho.
By the way, Blackburn Rovers net debt stands at £100 million, which shows what can happen when the sugar daddy is no longer around.

[green day]

The fact you personally were emailed, or that you personally don't care about a certificate, doesn't make what I said a load of made up pish I'm afraid.

I just checked and there are 4 posts specifically saying they weren't renewing until they received their certificate.

And OK, a lot of the thread was about people just commenting on or compalining about certificates so you could quible about me characterising a 'general view' but saying it is 'made up pish' is rediculous.

And as regards other posts pointing out that the uses of the funds collected are different. Well thanks, but I do realise that - that doesn't mean you can't compare the attitudes of the two sets of fans to funding the club, which is what I did.

Aye ok. The fact that you trawled the entire thread to get a whole 4 posts kind of makes my point for me..........

I will be honest, I dont care about owning the club - I just contribute to HSL to give them a regular cash sum on top of the season ticket.
As to the tinfoil hat brigade reference? I was referring to the people who called HSL a ponzi scheme and hence put hundreds of people off contributing to our success on the park.

[Ozyhibby]

Bottom line - if the sugar daddies only want to do it so they can call themselves "owners" then I think it proves the case for fans holding 51%. It will not put off folk with funds who are happy to work with the fans but will discourage asset strippers or con men.
But say no external funders are around, then its up to the club to run itself within its means and not rely on borrowing money that cant be repaid. Afaik that is exactly the business model we are pursuing and its the one that gives us the best chance of thriving imho.
By the way, Blackburn Rovers net debt stands at £100 million, which shows what can happen when the sugar daddy is no longer around.

Most sugar daddies load the clubs up with debt. Even Chelsea have a massive debt which will become a problem if someone decides abramovich needs the sharp end of the pointy umbrella.
Getting to at least 26% means we can at least stop a future owner borrowing unsustainably and putting the club at risk.


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[Marco G]

Most sugar daddies load the clubs up with debt. Even Chelsea have a massive debt which will become a problem if someone decides abramovich needs the sharp end of the pointy umbrella.
Getting to at least 26% means we can at least stop a future owner borrowing unsustainably and putting the club at risk.


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Thanks for clearly describing a major benefit of fans owning shares. Did not realise that 26% would be enough to protect the club, and we must be near to that? Whereas with Anne Budge, if she had to suddenly sell her stake for whatever reason, there is nothing in place yet to stop another Romanov type from moving in.

[Arch Stanton]

Aye ok. The fact that you trawled the entire thread to get a whole 4 posts kind of makes my point for me..........

I will be honest, I dont care about owning the club - I just contribute to HSL to give them a regular cash sum on top of the season ticket.
As to the tinfoil hat brigade reference? I was referring to the people who called HSL a ponzi scheme and hence put hundreds of people off contributing to our success on the park.

Indeed - all that trawling is a few minutes of my life I will never get back. But, making your point? Hardly.

The negative opinions of HSL and the statements about discontinuing payments were a strong message in that thread and there is nothing to be gained by taking a head-in-the-sand view about it. If thats what HSL are up against then they need to address it.

And I'm not bothered about about owning the club or getting a certificate either - I only read through that thread to see what was involved in getting a certificate. When I got the email from Go Cardless about my subscrirption being finished I just went in and re-registered.

I mean, lots of messages about STs and the success of those sales is great news but the share scheme is also very important for us.

[Ozyhibby]

Thanks for clearly describing a major benefit of fans owning shares. Did not realise that 26% would be enough to protect the club, and we must be near to that? Whereas with Anne Budge, if she had to suddenly sell her stake for whatever reason, there is nothing in place yet to stop another Romanov type from moving in.

She can't sell her stake to anyone but FoH. They have a legally binding contract with her and the price has already been agreed.


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[Moulin Yarns]

She can't sell her stake to anyone but FoH. They have a legally binding contract with her and the price has already been agreed.


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Oh goody!! SO, if she needs to liquidate her assets (HOMFC) then the FOH would need to find the cash pronto or they go down the tubes. Liking the sound of that. :greengrin

[Marco G]

Oh goody!! SO, if she needs to liquidate her assets (HOMFC) then the FOH would need to find the cash pronto or they go down the tubes. Liking the sound of that. :greengrin
Yep, given that they are already emptying their pockets to run the club, pay for a new stand etc, not certain they could fulfil their end of the bargain at shirt notice. So the agreement would lapse. And in that case, who would step in? Another Romanov?

[GreenLake]

Most sugar daddies load the clubs up with debt. Even Chelsea have a massive debt which will become a problem if someone decides abramovich needs the sharp end of the pointy umbrella.
Getting to at least 26% means we can at least stop a future owner borrowing unsustainably and putting the club at risk.


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I am not an accountant but I think there are tax benefits in doing this.

[Ozyhibby]

I am not an accountant but I think there are tax benefits in doing this.

I've no doubt there is. Our tax system is designed to help such people.


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[CropleyWasGod]

I am not an accountant but I think there are tax benefits in doing this.

There may be tax benefits in that the interest is deductible from profits. However, it's not commercially sensible.