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pacoluna
14-12-2016, 10:01 AM
Set to be announced as new performance director for scotland replacing Brian McClaire.

Diclonius
14-12-2016, 10:23 AM
What a joke. The dinosaur's dinosaur. Shows how backward the SFA really is.

BH Hibs
14-12-2016, 10:26 AM
Another PR disaster in the making.

Moulin Yarns
14-12-2016, 10:35 AM
Just what we need at the Stupid Failing Abomination

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzoGpocXEAAzhnb.jpg

Brightside
14-12-2016, 10:39 AM
Set to be announced as new performance director for scotland replacing Brian McClaire.

Yeh i meant to out something up yesterday. The SFA are now beyond Parody. If you have a talented young footballer i'd do everything you could to get him out of any SFA Performance set-up. Utterly shambolic.

Andy74
14-12-2016, 10:47 AM
I don't see too much out there on what his coaching methods and thoughts are - how have people been able to form a view on whether he is a 'dinosaur' at 44 years of age or not?

I've no idea whether he is qualified for this role or not but other than a pretty mixed management career I don't really know enough about how he compares to anyone else for this role.

Moulin Yarns
14-12-2016, 10:57 AM
I wonder how the SFA will go about the "Show Racism the Red Card" now they are employing one?

Betty Boop
14-12-2016, 11:00 AM
So the guy should never work in football again ?

CorrieHibs
14-12-2016, 11:01 AM
I wonder how the SFA will go about the "Show Racism the Red Card" now they are employing one?

They allow sectarianism so why not racism eh.

Disgraceful appointment. Scottish football has no future. Sad but true.

number9dream
14-12-2016, 11:02 AM
Surely the SFA must know this appointment will be met with widespread (and justifiable) outrage after MM's shameful texts.
Does nobody want this performance director's job?
McPhee was in the running apparently only to jump at being assistant at Hearts.
MM would be off to a club in a flash if there was interest. As for him being the figurehead in developing a model for young players, it's beyond parody!
John Collins is probably too prickly for a post that will require diplomacy when liaising with clubs and wouldn't be a yes man for SFA.

easty
14-12-2016, 11:11 AM
What does the job actually involve? What is Mackay expected to do?

Pretty Boy
14-12-2016, 11:14 AM
I don't see too much out there on what his coaching methods and thoughts are - how have people been able to form a view on whether he is a 'dinosaur' at 44 years of age or not?

I've no idea whether he is qualified for this role or not but other than a pretty mixed management career I don't really know enough about how he compares to anyone else for this role.

I always find it funny the people that are labelled dinosaurs because of their dodgy persona as opposed to anything in football. I remember Archie Knox being called a dinosaur on here yet I read one of Alex Fergusons books shortly after in which he repeatedly named Knox as the biggest influence on his early managerial career and name checked him consistently when talking about coaching technique and ability.

MacKays views on a lot of things would appear to differ wildly from mine but as a coach, coordinator or football 'philosopher' I really have no idea how good he is.

matty_f
14-12-2016, 11:36 AM
So the guy should never work in football again ?

Would appear to be the consensus. Trial by the moral majority.

I thought what he did was disgusting, but I'm happy to accept that he could have learned from that and changed. I don't think his actions should mean he should lose his livelihood for the rest of his days.

Scouse Hibee
14-12-2016, 11:46 AM
Outrage but does he have valid motor insurance?

Brightside
14-12-2016, 12:05 PM
I may be mistaken but i don't think he has his UEFA Pro Licence.

The role of Performance Director actually changes depending who you speak to. It was the case that the main focus was creating a coaching and development blueprint that all coaches and clubs should aspire to follow. But Brian McLair left as it was clear the role was more about being a politician within the SFA. One thing is for sure Malkay Mckay is never a politician in a million years!

andrew70
14-12-2016, 12:11 PM
I may be mistaken but i don't think he has his UEFA Pro Licence.

The role of Performance Director actually changes depending who you speak to. It was the case that the main focus was creating a coaching and development blueprint that all coaches and clubs should aspire to follow. But Brian McLair left as it was clear the role was more about being a politician within the SFA. One thing is for sure Malkay Mckay is never a politician in a million years!

Corrupt, bigoted, un-educated...he certainly has all the attributes of a 'good' politician.

However being serious what has he done to deserve this position? Just another jobs for the boys appointment. McLair wasn't any better - political role or not.

The SFA are a complete basket-case and until the officialdom is emptied then we'll never see any significant change.

Brightside
14-12-2016, 12:15 PM
Corrupt, bigoted, un-educated...he certainly has all the attributes of a 'good' politician.

However being serious what has he done to deserve this position? Just another jobs for the boys appointment. McLair wasn't any better - political role or not.

The SFA are a complete basket-case and until the officialdom is emptied then we'll never see any significant change.

I'm not aware of any development roles he has undertaken, or any senior manager director type roles. So basically he has done nothing to warrant even an interview, and done plenty that should ensure he wasn't interviewed. Make no mistake Scottish football will be rightly ridiculed for hiring someone who was sacked for racist, homophobic, and anti-Semite comments.....and thats even before we get into the money secured from agents etc.

matty_f
14-12-2016, 12:16 PM
Corrupt, bigoted, un-educated...he certainly has all the attributes of a 'good' politician.

However being serious what has he done to deserve this position? Just another jobs for the boys appointment. McLair wasn't any better - political role or not.

The SFA are a complete basket-case and until the officialdom is emptied then we'll never see any significant change.

I presume he was interviewed for the role and set out what he could bring to the role. I think if it was a jobs for the boys scenario there would be people ahead of Malky Mackay.

This is potentially key appointment, and the SFA will have a higher priority on making the appointment a success than just looking after a mate.

easty
14-12-2016, 12:20 PM
This is potentially key appointment, and the SFA will have a higher priority on making the appointment a success than just looking after a mate.

I wish I believed that the SFA would be above that sort of thing, but I genuinely don't.

matty_f
14-12-2016, 12:25 PM
I wish I believed that the SFA would be above that sort of thing, but I genuinely don't.

Which is a fair point, I suppose. :agree:

andrew70
14-12-2016, 12:29 PM
I'm not aware of any development roles he has undertaken, or any senior manager director type roles. So basically he has done nothing to warrant even an interview, and done plenty that should ensure he wasn't interviewed. Make no mistake Scottish football will be rightly ridiculed for hiring someone who was sacked for racist, homophobic, and anti-Semite comments.....and thats even before we get into the money secured from agents etc.

Its bordering on bringing our game into disrepute if they've not already done so. Can anybody name players he has developed or brought through in his managerial roles at Cardiff etc?


I presume he was interviewed for the role and set out what he could bring to the role. I think if it was a jobs for the boys scenario there would be people ahead of Malky Mackay.

This is potentially key appointment, and the SFA will have a higher priority on making the appointment a success than just looking after a mate.

I'd like to think so but I don't think they care anymore. Narrow-minded and ignorant in my opinion.


I wish I believed that the SFA would be above that sort of thing, but I genuinely don't.

This, the blazers in power are delighted they can get away with this whilst still taking their coin for overseeing such a shambles.

stoneyburn hibs
14-12-2016, 12:46 PM
Outrage but does he have valid motor insurance?

He does, and it's rumoured that he's been spotted using two car parking spaces.

Radium
14-12-2016, 12:49 PM
I think it is quite sad that the job has gone to MacKay on a last man standing basis and will be interested to see what spin is put on the appointment.
Do I think he should be in the position based upon his comments, no. He wasn't a naive youngster who could argue he knew no better. Neither can he suggest that his views were representative of his peers.
The sad truth seems to be that the performance role with the SFA has so little going for it that nobody else wants it.


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Iain G
14-12-2016, 01:28 PM
As if any proof was needed that the SFA are a bunch of jobs for the boys, morally bankrupt bunch of imbiciles who wouldn't know what was good for Scottish Football unless it bought them an expensive lunch...

For MacKay to get this job, based on an uninspiring managerial career and his clearly racist and sexist views on life is just shocking.

Keith_M
14-12-2016, 01:32 PM
He does, and it's rumoured that he's been spotted using two car parking spaces.


I saw him parking in a disabled space

Jim44
14-12-2016, 01:50 PM
So the guy should never work in football again ?

On the news just now. Clare Haughey, MSP, Convener of the Health and Sport Committee, this appointment is inappropriate for Mackay. Spokesman for Show Racism the Red Card says that he has gone through an equality and diversity training programme and they wish him well in his new role at the SFA.

Leith_Hibee
14-12-2016, 01:55 PM
I presume he was interviewed for the role and set out what he could bring to the role. I think if it was a jobs for the boys scenario there would be people ahead of Malky Mackay.

This is potentially key appointment, and the SFA will have a higher priority on making the appointment a success than just looking after a mate.

The role was offered to the Hearts No.2 but he turned it down for Hearts. The other candidates in for the role were John Collins (please no) and John Park (who is a scout). I think Malky is the best of a bad bunch apart from MacPhee.

Whether you are a good coach or not it doesn't matter, its more about how you implement a strategy to get the best for Scottish Football with the limited funding you have at your disposal. To increase the available funding you need to have some influencing skills with coaches and in the board room, something McClair lacked, he is more happy on the pitch implementing a plan rather than driving the plan forward.

Future17
14-12-2016, 02:19 PM
Whilst I have my reservations about the appointment based on what little I know of Mackay in a footballing sense, and what I think about the SFA more generally, I have no objection to him getting the big based on his previous comments (as set out above). He has been punished for those comments and Show Racism the Red Card and Kick It Out have stated he has undertaken work to rectify the related flaws in his character.

If we aren't prepared to give people a second chance, what's the point in trying to rehabilitate them?


I saw him parking in a disabled space

If it was disabled, how did he manage to park in it?

Brightside
14-12-2016, 02:42 PM
Whilst I have my reservations about the appointment based on what little I know of Mackay in a footballing sense, and what I think about the SFA more generally, I have no objection to him getting the big based on his previous comments (as set out above). He has been punished for those comments and Show Racism the Red Card and Kick It Out have stated he has undertaken work to rectify the related flaws in his character.

If we aren't prepared to give people a second chance, what's the point in trying to rehabilitate them?



If it was disabled, how did he manage to park in it?

Yep send a motorist on a speed awareness session to avoid a fine, and they will never ever speed again. :wink:

jacomo
14-12-2016, 02:50 PM
The role was offered to the Hearts No.2 but he turned it down for Hearts. The other candidates in for the role were John Collins (please no) and John Park (who is a scout). I think Malky is the best of a bad bunch apart from MacPhee.

Whether you are a good coach or not it doesn't matter, its more about how you implement a strategy to get the best for Scottish Football with the limited funding you have at your disposal. To increase the available funding you need to have some influencing skills with coaches and in the board room, something McClair lacked, he is more happy on the pitch implementing a plan rather than driving the plan forward.

You seriously think Mackay is a better appointment than John Collins?? Based on what?

JC hardly the most diplomatic of characters (but then neither is MM), but at least he knows how to improve players.

Brightside
14-12-2016, 02:58 PM
Collins would have been ideal. But he's not an SFA suck up.

jacomo
14-12-2016, 03:00 PM
Collins would have been ideal. But he's not an SFA suck up.

Nail on the head.

GreenCastle
14-12-2016, 03:01 PM
My concern is he really the best we have for the job?

Do we not have any better candidates who can try and improve the game here. Is there not a top coach abroad who can come in and freshen things up - ok Wotte was appointmeted but plenty of good football people out there.

We are miles behind everyone at every level (maybe women's football not so much - but still behind English money) but I've said for a while the SFA 2020 plan and the performance centres and youth academies are just not good enough.

Iain G
14-12-2016, 03:17 PM
Collins would have been ideal. But he's not an SFA suck up.

He might have actually had some of the attributes required to do the job!

NAE NOOKIE
14-12-2016, 03:24 PM
My view on him as a person is that I'm prepared to give him a chance, as somebody else said what's the point of rehabilitating someone if you then don't give them a chance to prove they have learned their lesson and their rehabilitation is genuine. Its why the baddies never win in James Bond movies, none of the henchmen get to learn from their mistakes coz they get fed to the sharks or whatever as the price of failure, a scenario that is all to often mistakenly applied in real life.

As for MacKay's credentials for the role in a football sense ..... is he any more respected as a coach than a hundred other possible applicants, is he known as a good administrator? What is he going to bring to the table that the other candidates couldn't, if there were any other candidates that is and if not, why not.

HoboHarry
14-12-2016, 03:35 PM
My view on him as a person is that I'm prepared to give him a chance, as somebody else said what's the point of rehabilitating someone if you then don't give them a chance to prove they have learned their lesson and their rehabilitation is genuine. Its why the baddies never win in James Bond movies, none of the henchmen get to learn from their mistakes coz they get fed to the sharks or whatever as the price of failure, a scenario that is all to often mistakenly applied in real life.

As for MacKay's credentials for the role in a football sense ..... is he any more respected as a coach than a hundred other possible applicants, is he known as a good administrator? What is he going to bring to the table that the other candidates couldn't, if there were any other candidates that is and if not, why not.

I think the prevailing view might be that this is, yet again, simply a case of jobs for the boys. We need a radical shake up like Iceland did but it's clear that both the SFA and the clubs have no desire to go that route. I read a comment from Paul Dickov about retaining Gordon Strachan being the best idea because he knows the system. Therein lies the problem - our system hasn't worked for years and still we continue down the same path. I would love to know who actually made this decision and who was available from outside Scotland.....

pacoluna
14-12-2016, 03:52 PM
Show Racism the Red Card said Mackay had undergone equality and diversity training, and "wished him well".

Really at the age of 44 he requires equality and diversity training?? This is obviously a pathway to help him back into his line of work, I very much doubt he will take any of this training on board, You don't need trained to become a non racist! It will be a case of "I won't make that mistake again in public"

Ozyhibby
14-12-2016, 04:07 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38317806


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ancient hibee
14-12-2016, 04:21 PM
He might have actually had some of the attributes required to do the job!
Which are?

Keith_M
14-12-2016, 04:22 PM
I understand his first bit of advice to his new employers was to "ditch the poofy pink Scotland strips"

Iain G
14-12-2016, 04:34 PM
Which are?

Hmm, not being a racist, sexist a**e could be a good start? :agree:

Collins was pretty well respected by the younger players in his time at Hibs and many of them bought into his ideas on development and the game and has gained an insight into how successful European teams have developed youth players and is clearly one of the most accomplished Scottish footballers of recent times. And from the words on the SFA site Collins would sound more suited IMHO of course.

From the SFA Website, assuming this is the role that MacKay is getting of course:

"Mark Wotte believed that the formation of seven Regional Performance Schools would symbolise the first green shoots of recovery for Scottish football.

He spent his first few months in post observing matches from senior international level to grassroots, concluding that the nation must have a more focused and co-ordinated approach to youth development.

Fundamental to his performance strategy was the appointment of seven regional performance coaches to work out of appointed schools that will house the most talented boys and girls in the region, providing expert, tailored coaching before and after the curriculum.

“We will start with seven performance schools and invest in our elite kids: our 12 to 15 year olds,” he said. “I believe this is the most important part of what we are aiming to do. These academies are a hugestep in the right direction. I want to be in the position where we see these academies creating the Scotland stars oftomorrow and I am confident that this will happen.

“In fact, by 2020, I expect our senior A squads to have six or seven players who have come from our performance schools.”

The role of performance director was hailed by then National Coach, Craig Levein, as the most significant appointment the Scottish FA has made in decades. The remit of the role is to take Scottish football fromgood to great once again, by planning a route from grassroots to the senior national men’s and women’s teams and creating a Best v Bestculture."

And from when McClair was appointed:

"As well as overseeing all National Youth Team programmes, he will also work closely with Gordon and Anna Signeul, the Women’s A Squad national coach, to ensure a co-ordinated approach to elite talent development.

Brian will also assume control of the seven Regional Performance Schools, where more than 300 of the country’s most talented boys and girls benefit from an additional eight hours of individual skills development per week as part of their curriculum."

bubblesmorrison
14-12-2016, 04:42 PM
So if you bring in someone young as Hearts did you get criticized for having someone with no experience or he is too young and a laptop lapdog but then bring in someone who is over 40 and he's a dinosaur and outdated? I am by no means defending the SFA I think the whole set up is a joke and need a massive revamp from top to tea women but it just seems that if you are not between 35 and 39 years old most people dont want you involved in the game.

ancient hibee
14-12-2016, 04:43 PM
Hmm, not being a racist, sexist a**e could be a good start? :agree:

Collins was pretty well respected by the younger players in his time at Hibs and many of them bought into his ideas on development and the game and has gained an insight into how successful European teams have developed youth players and is clearly one of the most accomplished Scottish footballers of recent times. And from the words on the SFA site Collins would sound more suited IMHO of course.

From the SFA Website, assuming this is the role that MacKay is getting of course:

"Mark Wotte believed that the formation of seven Regional Performance Schools would symbolise the first green shoots of recovery for Scottish football.

He spent his first few months in post observing matches from senior international level to grassroots, concluding that the nation must have a more focused and co-ordinated approach to youth development.

Fundamental to his performance strategy was the appointment of seven regional performance coaches to work out of appointed schools that will house the most talented boys and girls in the region, providing expert, tailored coaching before and after the curriculum.

“We will start with seven performance schools and invest in our elite kids: our 12 to 15 year olds,” he said. “I believe this is the most important part of what we are aiming to do. These academies are a hugestep in the right direction. I want to be in the position where we see these academies creating the Scotland stars oftomorrow and I am confident that this will happen.

“In fact, by 2020, I expect our senior A squads to have six or seven players who have come from our performance schools.”

The role of performance director was hailed by then National Coach, Craig Levein, as the most significant appointment the Scottish FA has made in decades. The remit of the role is to take Scottish football fromgood to great once again, by planning a route from grassroots to the senior national men’s and women’s teams and creating a Best v Bestculture."

And from when McClair was appointed:

"As well as overseeing all National Youth Team programmes, he will also work closely with Gordon and Anna Signeul, the Women’s A Squad national coach, to ensure a co-ordinated approach to elite talent development.

Brian will also assume control of the seven Regional Performance Schools, where more than 300 of the country’s most talented boys and girls benefit from an additional eight hours of individual skills development per week as part of their curriculum."


Thank you.I believe the main requirement of the job is to convince the clubs to close down their academies and centre them in a few elite centres,some of which will be in clubs.Brian McClair quit because he had zero success in getting the clubs to go along with this.No idea if McKay will be able to do it and feel Collins would not have been a good choice either.

worcesterhibby
14-12-2016, 05:13 PM
My view on him as a person is that I'm prepared to give him a chance, as somebody else said what's the point of rehabilitating someone if you then don't give them a chance to prove they have learned their lesson and their rehabilitation is genuine.

I would agree that he shouldn't be banned from taking up another post in football again, If there are clubs out there who don't care that he is a racist and a sexist and a homophobe then fine, but that's a huge leap to deciding he is the best person to lead youth development for the Nation. I am big enough to admit that like 99% of other people my age (48) that I used the term "poof" on a regular basis and in a derogatory way while I was at school and even in my early University days. However you grow up, the world changes and you come to an understanding about how to treat people who have different life choices or different cultures. Would it surprise me if Makay had made the comments he did when he was a young footballer....no of course not...however the fact that he was in his 40's and holding down a responsible job where he had a direct influence on the careers of people he was making racist and homophobic comments about I find beyond understanding. What we need within the SFA youth set up is real leaders of men, who set the tone of professionalism and world class standards that have been sadly lacking from the game in Scotland for many years...3 days taking a course in why he shouldn't hate black people, doesn't make McKay that man.

Malthibby
14-12-2016, 05:20 PM
I would agree that he shouldn't be banned from taking up another post in football again, If there are clubs out there who don't care that he is a racist and a sexist and a homophobe then fine, but that's a huge leap to deciding he is the best person to lead youth development for the Nation. I am big enough to admit that like 99% of other people my age (48) that I used the term "poof" on a regular basis and in a derogatory way while I was at school and even in my early University days. However you grow up, the world changes and you come to an understanding about how to treat people who have different life choices or different cultures. Would it surprise me if Makay had made the comments he did when he was a young footballer....no of course not...however the fact that he was in his 40's and holding down a responsible job where he had a direct influence on the careers of people he was making racist and homophobic comments about I find beyond understanding. What we need within the SFA youth set up is real leaders of men, who set the tone of professionalism and world class standards that have been sadly lacking from the game in Scotland for many years...3 days taking a course in why he shouldn't hate black people, doesn't make McKay that man.

What he said.
The 3 day course may have taught him to keep his trap shut but it's not long to turn around the full-on racism, otherisms that seemed to define his view of the world.
Apart from anything else most of the SFA needs emptied so I would probably disagree with anything they decided.

HoboHarry
14-12-2016, 05:45 PM
As I understood things both Wotte and McClair both quit because of a lack of a buy-in from the clubs. If that is true, why are they even bothering to fill the post irrespective of whether it is McKay or anyone else? Nothing is going to change anyway.....

Thecat23
14-12-2016, 05:48 PM
SFA the gift that just keeps on giving!

Andy74
14-12-2016, 06:06 PM
What he said.
The 3 day course may have taught him to keep his trap shut but it's not long to turn around the full-on racism, otherisms that seemed to define his view of the world.
Apart from anything else most of the SFA needs emptied so I would probably disagree with anything they decided.

Are we not talking about someone who sent a few dodgy messages to friends? I think about 9,000 texts were reviewed and 3 were found to be offensive?

I prefer to judge someone on their actions and interactions with others and not daft texts or offhand comments. We've all made them at some point, I doubt most are actually reflective of what we actually think or how we think of or treat people.

If after a process he has been found to be the best candidate for the job then fine with me, I haven't read anything that suggests that his actual interactions with people have shown him to act in prejudicial way and see no reason why he can't be able to do a job.

Golden Bear
14-12-2016, 06:13 PM
Are we not talking about someone who sent a few dodgy messages to friends? I think about 9,000 texts were reviewed and 3 were found to be offensive?

I prefer to judge someone on their actions and interactions with others and not daft texts or offhand comments. We've all made them at some point, I doubt most are actually reflective of what we actually think or how we think of or treat people.

If after a process he has been found to be the best candidate for the job then fine with me, I haven't read anything that suggests that his actual interactions with people have shown him to act in prejudicial way and see no reason why he can't be able to do a job.

:top marks

bingo70
14-12-2016, 06:18 PM
As I understood things both Wotte and McClair both quit because of a lack of a buy-in from the clubs. If that is true, why are they even bothering to fill the post irrespective of whether it is McKay or anyone else? Nothing is going to change anyway.....

Maybe part of the attraction of Mackay is that he is a better negotiator and prepared to work with the clubs rather than stropping and quitting when not getting his own way.

It's all very well having the best plans in the world but if you're not able to convince the people that need convincing then it's all a bit pointless.

number9dream
14-12-2016, 06:46 PM
SFA the gift that just keeps on giving!

And they've paid some London consultancy firm a fortune to get this far. Next season's blazers might have to have fewer shiny buttons...

where'stheslope
14-12-2016, 07:38 PM
Show Racism the Red Card said Mackay had undergone equality and diversity training, and "wished him well".

Really at the age of 44 he requires equality and diversity training?? This is obviously a pathway to help him back into his line of work, I very much doubt he will take any of this training on board, You don't need trained to become a non racist! It will be a case of "I won't make that mistake again in public"

Referees go on training courses, and look how well it does them?????

Slavers
14-12-2016, 07:45 PM
Collins would have been ideal. But he's not an SFA suck up.

Correct the SFA should be doing all they can to get Collins in the position. No some numpty like Malky McKay.

Tomsk
14-12-2016, 08:04 PM
The role was offered to the Hearts No.2 but he turned it down for Hearts. The other candidates in for the role were John Collins (please no) and John Park (who is a scout). I think Malky is the best of a bad bunch apart from MacPhee.

Whether you are a good coach or not it doesn't matter, its more about how you implement a strategy to get the best for Scottish Football with the limited funding you have at your disposal. To increase the available funding you need to have some influencing skills with coaches and in the board room, something McClair lacked, he is more happy on the pitch implementing a plan rather than driving the plan forward.

You make some good points, Leith, but that bit I've highlighted in bold is a pretty near accurate description of what John Park did at Hibs with such great success. He may have ended up working as a scout for Celtc but at Hibs he was the intellectual driver of the cub's youth development. He was at least worth an interview.

Mackay's appointment is baffling. It exposes the SFA to ridicule or worse. He doesn't appear to be particularly well qualified for the post. And, frankly, those quotes tells you more than enough about what kind of person he is.

But nothing surprises me about the SFA.

Magnus
14-12-2016, 08:10 PM
And from when McClair was appointed:

"As well as overseeing all National Youth Team programmes, he will also work closely with Gordon and Anna Signeul, the Women’s A Squad national coach, to ensure a co-ordinated approach to elite talent development.

Brian will also assume control of the seven Regional Performance Schools, where more than 300 of the country’s most talented boys and girls benefit from an additional eight hours of individual skills development per week as part of their curriculum."

Can't imagine Collins accepting these terms

superfurryhibby
14-12-2016, 08:11 PM
So if you bring in someone young as Hearts did you get criticized for having someone with no experience or he is too young and a laptop lapdog but then bring in someone who is over 40 and he's a dinosaur and outdated? I am by no means defending the SFA I think the whole set up is a joke and need a massive revamp from top to tea women but it just seems that if you are not between 35 and 39 years old most people dont want you involved in the game.

The concerns around McKay have nothing to do with his age.

Having had a wee look at what happened it's fair to say that McKay was implicated in more than just dodgy texts. There were question marks around some of his transfer business too. In truth, we have a handful of texts he has admited to sending. There were thousands more which he may have sent , received etc. Part of the furore concerned the means by which Tan came about this information. This in itself may have contributed to the way the incident was managed thereafter.

A murky and unclean affair all around. He should be nowhere near the SF A post.

bingo70
14-12-2016, 08:12 PM
You make some good points, Leith, but that bit I've highlighted in bold is a pretty near accurate description of what John Park did at Hibs with such great success. He may have ended up working as a scout for Celtc but at Hibs he was the intellectual driver of the cub's youth development. He was at least worth an interview.

Mackay's appointment is baffling. It exposes the SFA to ridicule or worse. He doesn't appear to be particularly well qualified for the post. And, frankly, those quotes tells you more than enough about what kind of person he is.

But nothing surprises me about the SFA.

How long was John Park at hibs? If he was the brains behind the whole structure I'd have thought we'd have seen the benefits of his work for a while after he left as he'd have laid the foundations.

Seems more likely that he did a good job to scout the good young players that came through at that time but that would just back up the theory he was just a scout, allbeit a very good one.

Tomsk
14-12-2016, 08:24 PM
How long was John Park at hibs? If he was the brains behind the whole structure I'd have thought we'd have seen the benefits of his work for a while after he left as he'd have laid the foundations.

Seems more likely that he did a good job to scout the good young players that came through at that time but that would just back up the theory he was just a scout, allbeit a very good one.


Nine years. The young players who came through in Mowbray's time were developed in Park's system -- Brown, Thomson, Riordan, etc. Park was not a scout at Hibs. He was Head of Youth Development.

bingo70
14-12-2016, 08:26 PM
Nine years. The young players who came through in Mowbray's time were developed in Park's system -- Brown, Thomson, Riordan, etc. Park was not a scout at Hibs. He was Head of Youth Development.

Sorry, i stand corrected then, I didn't realise he was here as long as that.

Big L
14-12-2016, 08:26 PM
Are we not talking about someone who sent a few dodgy messages to friends? I think about 9,000 texts were reviewed and 3 were found to be offensive?

I prefer to judge someone on their actions and interactions with others and not daft texts or offhand comments. We've all made them at some point, I doubt most are actually reflective of what we actually think or how we think of or treat people.

If after a process he has been found to be the best candidate for the job then fine with me, I haven't read anything that suggests that his actual interactions with people have shown him to act in prejudicial way and see no reason why he can't be able to do a job.

This!

Thecat23
14-12-2016, 09:44 PM
Are we not talking about someone who sent a few dodgy messages to friends? I think about 9,000 texts were reviewed and 3 were found to be offensive?

I prefer to judge someone on their actions and interactions with others and not daft texts or offhand comments. We've all made them at some point, I doubt most are actually reflective of what we actually think or how we think of or treat people.

If after a process he has been found to be the best candidate for the job then fine with me, I haven't read anything that suggests that his actual interactions with people have shown him to act in prejudicial way and see no reason why he can't be able to do a job.

Playing devils advocate here..

If someone you interviewed for a job in your team at work had said these things on Facebook or Twitter would you give them the job?

I personally don't think many would myself. Although I do see what your saying that it's maybe a one off comment but who knows?

I think John Collins may be a better man but time will tell. All I do know is the SFA are utterly useless and we are still a laughing stock of football.

weecounty hibby
14-12-2016, 10:02 PM
The amazing thing for me is that the SFA used an expensive recruitment consultancy based in London for this position and the best they could come up with was Malky mcKay. Smacks of just employing someone who wont rock the boat with the blazers. Seems to be a very unpleasant character as well

Paisley Hibby
14-12-2016, 10:49 PM
Show Racism the Red Card said Mackay had undergone equality and diversity training, and "wished him well".

Really at the age of 44 he requires equality and diversity training?? This is obviously a pathway to help him back into his line of work, I very much doubt he will take any of this training on board, You don't need trained to become a non racist! It will be a case of "I won't make that mistake again in public"

Why are folk so quick to condemn and write folk off nowadays? I don't believe he's really a racist and I bet that, deep down, you don't either.

jdships
14-12-2016, 11:07 PM
Are we not talking about someone who sent a few dodgy messages to friends? I think about 9,000 texts were reviewed and 3 were found to be offensive?

I prefer to judge someone on their actions and interactions with others and not daft texts or offhand comments. We've all made them at some point, I doubt most are actually reflective of what we actually think or how we think of or treat people.

If after a process he has been found to be the best candidate for the job then fine with me, I haven't read anything that suggests that his actual interactions with people have shown him to act in prejudicial way and see no reason why he can't be able to do a job.

That is the most sensible post so far posted
Not one of us can HONESTLY hold our hand up and say we have never used language which " could be offensive" to someone
We are quite happy to allow politicians to continue in their jobs when they have been accused of all sorts of demeanours so why are we castigating MM ?
Well said Andy74 :thumbsup:

Iain G
14-12-2016, 11:25 PM
That is the most sensible post so far posted
Not one of us can HONESTLY hold our hand up and say we have never used language which " could be offensive" to someone
We are quite happy to allow politicians to continue in their jobs when they have been accused of all sorts of demeanours so why are we castigating MM ?
Well said Andy74 :thumbsup:

Content of some of the texts on first page of this thread. This is a man put into a supposedly key and important role within the body that is there to promote the sport in Scotland and a person who had to be able to work with a full cross.section of the community, the racist, sexist and laddish tone of these messages will clearly make this harder in this role and brings baggage to the position. Wrong appointment for the SFA.

Future17
15-12-2016, 09:30 AM
Yep send a motorist on a speed awareness session to avoid a fine, and they will never ever speed again. :wink:

A speeding motorist who loses his job, spends a lot of time out of employment, has his character castigated repeatedly in national media, watches his friends and family suffer as a result and attends a speed awareness session which makes him understand why his own stupid actions have caused all those issues...will be much less likely to speed again. :wink:

blackpoolhibs
15-12-2016, 09:55 AM
If he'd been appointed as the new manager at tynecastle we'd ALL be giving him a roasting, but in the real world, nobody really wants this job he's just been appointed to.

It appears to me they want a yes man for this, and unless you are a young up and coming coach looking for a future in the game, or an old duffer who cant get a job anywhere, or in this case McKay, someone nobody else will touch, this is the kind of calibre man they will appoint.

And lets be completely honest here, his agent will be looking night and day for a job for him, and after a while McKay will realise whatever he thinks wont make the slightest difference.

Change for the better is not wanted, any change that may help either of the bigots will obviously be looked at, and with him being one of them he will be there to try and facilitate it as easily as possible for them.

The way things are going in the game in Scotland, to be perfectly honest does anyone really care anymore? The SFA have systematically over a number of years made mistake after mistake or as i prefer to say work their ticket for the boys.

While we have these people running the game, nothing will ever change.

Spike Mandela
15-12-2016, 10:00 AM
Being a racist, sexist bigot doesn't seem to bar you from any role these days, even the role of leader of the free world.:rolleyes:

There is always a queue of neanderthal apologists running around behind them as well sweeping up the **** dismissing it all as 'banter' and saying "he doesn't really mean it, he's just joking".

This appointment is just another indication of the type of people we have running football in this country, outdated, insular and lacking in progressive vision.

Brightside
15-12-2016, 10:11 AM
A speeding motorist who loses his job, spends a lot of time out of employment, has his character castigated repeatedly in national media, watches his friends and family suffer as a result and attends a speed awareness session which makes him understand why his own stupid actions have caused all those issues...will be much less likely to speed again. :wink:

He got a job after the txts... lost that for being a **** manager.. :greengrin

Brightside
15-12-2016, 10:12 AM
Malky has been hanging about with the SFA blazers for a while now. He was at the Bet Fred Cup Final standing with them all and wee Gordo. Its jobs for the boys and no mistake.

WhileTheChief..
15-12-2016, 10:14 AM
Nothing against Malay Mackay, I just don't see the point of these kind of roles.

The SFA should step back and forget all about player development etc and simply be administrators of the game.

There has never ever in the history of our game been a player that has come through the ranks due to SFA coaches or what have you. It's down to the players themselves and the clubs - from youth through to the SPFL.

Hutchie Vale or whoever should coach kids the way they see fit and not the way that a central body thinks is best. This way kids will naturally gravitate to the youth clubs that offer the best chance.

Do we think that the Argentinian FA developed Messi? Portugal / Ronaldo or England / Rooney?

Of course not. It's down to these players having the desire to be the best and going out and making it happen.

The biggest problem our game faces is the players attitude. We rarely have professional athletes trying to be the best they can. That's what needs to change.

It's a culture thing too. We still think it's fine for footballers to go out drinking or for a meal at Nando's.

Well no, if you want to reach the top you've got to make sacrifices. That's down to the individual player and there's nothing the SFA can do about that.

AndyM_1875
15-12-2016, 01:10 PM
He got a job after the txts... lost that for being a **** manager.. :greengrin

To be fair that was at Wigan who were in freefall at the time. Pep Guardiola & Alex Ferguson together couldn't have saved them.
Mackay was a very promising manager. He did well at Watford and very well at Cardiff, taking them into the Premiership. However he was working for a lunatic chairman in Vincent Tan who meddled like a common Mad Vlad.

None of that excuses the tasteless & offensive texts but how long should someone be ostracised from working in football?
The argument about keeping Mackay out isn't helped by looking into the social media echo chamber either.

Future17
15-12-2016, 02:15 PM
He got a job after the txts... lost that for being a **** manager.. :greengrin

But he was unemployed for a long time.

Future17
15-12-2016, 02:16 PM
Being a racist, sexist bigot doesn't seem to bar you from any role these days, even the role of leader of the free world.:rolleyes:

There is always a queue of neanderthal apologists running around behind them as well sweeping up the **** dismissing it all as 'banter' and saying "he doesn't really mean it, he's just joking".

This appointment is just another indication of the type of people we have running football in this country, outdated, insular and lacking in progressive vision.

Do you mean you think Mackay is outdated, insular and lacking in progressive vision? If so, are you basing that purely on the texts?

Ozyhibby
15-12-2016, 02:20 PM
Just watched his press conference. First 15mins are about the text messages, last 5 touched on what he was bringing to the role. It would have been better if it was the other way round.
I'm happy enough with the appointment. The only two other candidates I've seen are Collins and McPhee. Both may have had good ideas but I very much doubt either would have been able to bring the clubs with them. Collins doesn't have the diplomacy skills and McPhee still has to earn his stripes in the game.


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lyonhibs
15-12-2016, 03:08 PM
Would appear to be the consensus. Trial by the moral majority.

I thought what he did was disgusting, but I'm happy to accept that he could have learned from that and changed. I don't think his actions should mean he should lose his livelihood for the rest of his days.


He was in his 40's when he sent those texts, not some daft laddie of 14. At that age, it's entrenched racism and bigotry he's showing IMO, not some silly misdemeanour that will/might lead to change.

Don't know what he's like as a football coach etc right enough, but I'd rather he wasn't responsible for the roadmap of Scotland's football future. Shows - IMO - the extent of the SFA's ambition and care for the game making an appointment of this nature.

superfurryhibby
15-12-2016, 03:38 PM
But he was unemployed for a long time.

So are plenty football managers, most of whom haven't been outed for their crass beliefs.

Football is one of the last bastions of racism, sexism, homophobia and otherwise socially unacceptable behavious. Ok, things are changing a wee bit, but it's not really a progressive profession. Having a man like McKay in charge of our national strategy for youth development reeks.

What qualifies him for this role? Is it his track record in coaching and promoting youth development? Is it is his record as a manager who emphasised and relied on a trusted system which ensured young players were to the fore in his teams?

McKay is tainted. Ther are other stories and concerns about the man, beyond his involvement in thousands of disgraceful text messages. His transfer dealings were under the microscope too and for anyone who cares to dig deep enough, you will find he was a lucky man that Tan choose very dubious methods to make some of the concerns public

Ozyhibby
15-12-2016, 04:05 PM
I don't think our welfare state could survive if everyone who had ever expressed a racist view in private were told they could not work again. People need to get over themselves.
I'm much more interested in if he can do the job.


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JimBHibees
15-12-2016, 04:11 PM
He was in his 40's when he sent those texts, not some daft laddie of 14. At that age, it's entrenched racism and bigotry he's showing IMO, not some silly misdemeanour that will/might lead to change.

Don't know what he's like as a football coach etc right enough, but I'd rather he wasn't responsible for the roadmap of Scotland's football future. Shows - IMO - the extent of the SFA's ambition and care for the game making an appointment of this nature.

That is kind of where I am, surely the SFA could have picked someone with a better reputation than this guy. Sends the wrong messages IMO.

Spike Mandela
15-12-2016, 04:36 PM
Do you mean you think Mackay is outdated, insular and lacking in progressive vision? If so, are you basing that purely on the texts?
No.

Big L
15-12-2016, 06:11 PM
Mackay has apologised publicly and personally to the two individuals concerned. He has taken courses on the subject, he has been involved in talks all over the country and abroad both to adults and kids, both of the major anti racism bodies have given him their support going forward. Has he not done enough to deserve a second chance, or is their never to be a way back for Mackay.

Ozyhibby
15-12-2016, 06:21 PM
Mackay has apologised publicly and personally to the two individuals concerned. He has taken courses on the subject, he has been involved in talks all over the country and abroad both to adults and kids, both of the major anti racism bodies have given him their support going forward. Has he not done enough to deserve a second chance, or is their never to be a way back for Mackay.

There can be no forgiveness from the mob. They won't be happy till he is living of benefits and sleeping rough. [emoji23]


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superfurryhibby
15-12-2016, 06:24 PM
I don't think our welfare state could survive if everyone who had ever expressed a racist view in private were told they could not work again. People need to get over themselves.
I'm much more interested in if he can do the job.


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Can you highlight his qualifications to do the job?

What do you think will develop in respect of the concerns about his transfer dealings at Cardiff.

How many times does someone need to say that his reputation is tarnished by more than his appallling texts before it sinks in that this appointments reeks.

Ozyhibby
15-12-2016, 06:36 PM
Can you highlight his qualifications to do the job?

What do you think will develop in respect of the concerns about his transfer dealings at Cardiff.

How many times does someone need to say that his reputation is tarnished by more than his appallling texts before it sinks in that this appointments reeks.

I've no idea whether he can do the job and I'm unlikely to find out any time soon as our press are not interested in asking him his plans. All I'm hearing about are text messages that I already know about from 3 years ago.


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Big L
15-12-2016, 06:50 PM
There can be no forgiveness from the mob. They won't be happy till he is living of benefits and sleeping rough. [emoji23]


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That would appear to be the case, surely the punishment has to fit the crime! As to his ability, he did well at Watford and took Cardiff to the Premiership. He also had to contend with a total nut job.

superfurryhibby
15-12-2016, 06:54 PM
I've no idea whether he can do the job and I'm unlikely to find out any time soon as our press are not interested in asking him his plans. All I'm hearing about are text messages that I already know about from 3 years ago.


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Read the thread then, there is more to this than the texts.

lord bunberry
15-12-2016, 07:17 PM
So if you bring in someone young as Hearts did you get criticized for having someone with no experience or he is too young and a laptop lapdog but then bring in someone who is over 40 and he's a dinosaur and outdated? I am by no means defending the SFA I think the whole set up is a joke and need a massive revamp from top to tea women but it just seems that if you are not between 35 and 39 years old most people dont want you involved in the game.
Tea WOMAN!!!! You sexist pig, your just as bad as Mackay:greengrin

HoboHarry
15-12-2016, 07:24 PM
Tea WOMAN!!!! You sexist pig, your just as bad as Mackay:greengrin

He wouldn't have called yon wee Aggie at St Johnstone a tea woman. She would have kicked his erse........:greengrin

lord bunberry
15-12-2016, 08:04 PM
He wouldn't have called yon wee Aggie at St Johnstone a tea woman. She would have kicked his erse........:greengrin

Aye that's true. Souness still has nightmares about her :greengrin

Dr Jimmy
15-12-2016, 08:16 PM
Mental appointment. Absolutely mental.
Can just see all the sponsors that have avoided Scottish football queuing up to get involved now.

HoboHarry
15-12-2016, 08:28 PM
Mental appointment. Absolutely mental.
Can just see all the sponsors that have avoided Scottish football queuing up to get involved now.
I don't get it either. The entire entity of football in this country needs a shake up but the resistance is there for all to see. The SFA have twice tried intellectuals in Wotte and McClair and they both quit. Now its a return to the old boys network and I just can't see anything changing. The poor quality of domestic football and the failure to qualify for a major tournament may continue for some years yet......

silverhibee
15-12-2016, 08:41 PM
Malky has been hanging about with the SFA blazers for a while now. He was at the Bet Fred Cup Final standing with them all and wee Gordo. Its jobs for the boys and no mistake.

He is friends with McGhee, and they all like there golfing trips to Portugal.

bingo70
15-12-2016, 08:41 PM
I don't get it either. The entire entity of football in this country needs a shake up but the resistance is there for all to see. The SFA have twice tried intellectuals in Wotte and McClair and they both quit. Now its a return to the old boys network and I just can't see anything changing. The poor quality of domestic football and the failure to qualify for a major tournament may continue for some years yet......

His dad being on the board at Queen's Park might help explain it 😉

In fairness I'm pretty open minded about it, the two intellectuals you mentioned never had the intellect to sell their ideas to the people that needed convincing so maybe a different approach is needed.

Regardless of any history I think of you were judging him from scratch I think he struggled a bit today with the press conference clips I saw, I thought he seemed nervous, didn't put questions about his past to bed and didn't really set out any vision for the future, Ultimately he won't be judged on press conferences though so I wish him well.

The biggest mystery in Scottish Football for me is Stewart Regan, first of all how did that clown get this job? Since he got it has he got one thing right? Lastly How is he still in this job? Absolute balloon

HoboHarry
15-12-2016, 08:53 PM
His dad being on the board at Queen's Park might help explain it 😉

In fairness I'm pretty open minded about it, the two intellectuals you mentioned never had the intellect to sell their ideas to the people that needed convincing so maybe a different approach is needed.

Regardless of any history I think of you were judging him from scratch I think he struggled a bit today with the press conference clips I saw, I thought he seemed nervous, didn't put questions about his past to bed and didn't really set out any vision for the future, Ultimately he won't be judged on press conferences though so I wish him well.

The biggest mystery in Scottish Football for me is Stewart Regan, first of all how did that clown get this job? Since he got it has he got one thing right? Lastly How is he still in this job? Absolute balloon
If the clubs wanted him out he would be out and therein lies your answer..........

truehibernian
15-12-2016, 08:58 PM
Mental appointment. Absolutely mental.
Can just see all the sponsors that have avoided Scottish football queuing up to get involved now.

English and UK football are in the midst of a horrendous child sex abuse scandal albeit historical (at this stage anyway) but who's to say not current and those accused still involved in the game - have any sponsors of the Premiership, Championship or elsewhere threatened to pull out ?

Welcome to the fickle world of football - in fact, welcome to the fickle corporate world mate.

As unpalatable as his actions were, sponsors aren't bothered - my gripe is he wasn't honest enough to admit his texts were racist - be objective and admit the obvious - then you'll get respect (MM) - instead he waltzed around the question, aided by the backside that is Regan !

bingo70
15-12-2016, 09:09 PM
English and UK football are in the midst of a horrendous child sex abuse scandal albeit historical (at this stage anyway) but who's to say not current and those accused still involved in the game - have any sponsors of the Premiership, Championship or elsewhere threatened to pull out ?

Welcome to the fickle world of football - in fact, welcome to the fickle corporate world mate.

As unpalatable as his actions were, sponsors aren't bothered - my gripe is he wasn't honest enough to admit his texts were racist - be objective and admit the obvious - then you'll get respect (MM) - instead he waltzed around the question, aided by the backside that is Regan !

Yeah I thought he dealt with those questions terribly. He made no attempt to try and take back control of the room, whether that was by being bold and answering the question honestly, retaliate by throwing questions back at the journalist or go on the attack and really try to put the issue to bed but he did none of them, I felt he sat there like a rabbit in the headlights trying and failing to give a politicians answer. In fairness to him Regan could have stepped in to help and keep the questions relevant to the role.

truehibernian
15-12-2016, 09:18 PM
Yeah I thought he dealt with those questions terribly. He made no attempt to try and take back control of the room, whether that was by being bold and answering the question honestly, retaliate by throwing questions back at the journalist or go on the attack and really try to put the issue to bed but he did none of them, I felt he sat there like a rabbit in the headlights trying and failing to give a politicians answer. In fairness to him Regan could have stepped in to help and keep the questions relevant to the role.

For me Bingo he needed to be honest - and as objective as the interviewer - were your texts racist ? Simple and honest answer was and is 'yes' - no debate - no fudging, no 'round the houses' - the answer was and is yes. Both MM and Regan should have acknowledged it.

Iain G
15-12-2016, 09:28 PM
There can be no forgiveness from the mob. They won't be happy till he is living of benefits and sleeping rough. [emoji23]


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Yet you are happy to be openly critical of John Collins?!?

truehibernian
15-12-2016, 09:39 PM
There can be no forgiveness from the mob. They won't be happy till he is living of benefits and sleeping rough. [emoji23]


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What 'mob' Ozy ? The only 'mob' is the press ??

The fact we are debating it on an open forum is healthy - are you not more concerned that the now head of SFA Coaching didn't answer a simple question asking 'were your texts racist' ?

Scotland is diverse, inclusive and from a youth coaching perspective has kids from all nations, faiths, etc - are you honestly saying we should be happy because he's 'gone on courses' that we should be happy - especially after 3 years of courses he can't answer a simple question such as ' were your texts racist' ? We look for honesty and transparency - not hanging out to dry - but in a press conference when you absolutely know that's going to be the subject matter - he failed - the guy may have reformed his views - he did nothing today to dispel it !

Best guy for the job - Billy Reid !

Big L
16-12-2016, 01:17 AM
Mackay apologised publicly and personally for his racist comments, if he didn't think they were racist he wouldn't have apologised, would he? Three years later some clown from the press asks a question that
whether he answered or not was going to provide said clown with a headline. How many times does he have to say he's sorry? There are two issues here, the first is should he get a second chance, the second, should he get the SFA post. I believe he should get a second chance, as for the SFA post I don't give a toss.

Onion
16-12-2016, 09:53 AM
Mackay apologised publicly and personally for his racist comments, if he didn't think they were racist he wouldn't have apologised, would he? Three years later some clown from the press asks a question that
whether he answered or not was going to provide said clown with a headline. How many times does he have to say he's sorry? There are two issues here, the first is should he get a second chance, the second, should he get the SFA post. I believe he should get a second chance, as for the SFA post I don't give a toss.

Just another part of the SFA's race to the bottom.