SPFL go public on negotiations with the BBC

[Radium]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dc19cfea-01ca-11e6-be35-a3e1f14094fe

Seems like the negotiations are in trouble, or maybe just looking for nibbles from other outlets. The £1.4M on offer does seems low and it would be a big jump for them to meet the £3M wanted by the league.

"The chairman of the Scottish Professional Football League, Ralph Topping, last night insisted that clubs are ready to pull the plug on BBC Scotland’s Sportscene show and the rights to broadcast games live on radio.
Long-running contract negotiations between the SPFL and the BBC are no closer to a resolution and the parties remain far apart on what the broadcaster should pay for TV highlights, radio and online rights from the start of next season.
The present deal is worth £1.4 million per year but Topping said the BBC would have to offer between £3 million and £4 million before"

[Brightside]

They should be looking at deal with online publishers. Easily get more than 3m if we had people with the right mindset in charge.

[ionahibby]

Sportscene and bbc radio Scotland's coverage is rubbish anyway. Surely there is another broadcaster out there that could give scottish football more coverage, like someone else has said online etc?

[Onceinawhile]

1.4m? They pay Gary Lineker and Graham Norton more than that ffs!!

[zlatan]

Quite right to stick by their guns here. Even 3m must be a tiny percentage of what's paid for match of the day.

[greenpaper55]

If there were no sportscene it would be a real blessing !, never watch it and all they want to show is the OF and the rest are filmed on an iPhone!.

[Col2]

That would mean the Jambo fest on radio would be no more!!

I am all for that.

[AndyM_1875]

The BBC have got away with underpaying for the product for a while now.

For all that Sportscene is poor and I can take or leave the online stuff, the radio coverage is good, despite its constant sneering on matters Hibs and the presenters being overwhelmingly pro Celtic/Aberdeen in my opinion.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Quite right to stick by their guns here. Even 3m must be a tiny percentage of what's paid for match of the day.

:agree: £204m over 3 years - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2931485/BBC-retain-Premier-League-rights-2019-ITV-fail-submit-bid.html

[Diclonius]

Good to see the SPFL showing some balls. We've been held to ransom by the BBC/The Celtic & Rangers Show for too long now, and being paid a pittance for it.

[johnbc70]

Shows you how low Scottish football is valued. An English PL team would get more money for just 1 live game on Sky than the BBC offer for highlights of all games across a season in the top flight of Scottish football.

[AndyM_1875]

If Scottish Football has to be subject to the social disaster for inadequates that is the OldFirm, we should certainly use it to set the price in negotiations.

[Shore Thing]

Bring back Scotsport!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDdxdA-8ESI

[Jack]

Depends what they're (BBC & Alba?) wanting for the money. If it's a continuation of the current deal I'd tell them to bolt.

The BBC is a joke and I don't really see how they are promoting the game and Alba is a further irritation as far as fixture changes are concerned.

We could do with a bit less on the telly.

[Ozyhibby]

Spfl could do it all online these days and bring in a lot more than £3m a year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Halifaxhibby]

Channel 5 maybe???, after a few teething problems their championship show is still streets ahead of the clowns at the bbc.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Shows you how low Scottish football is valued. An English PL team would get more money for just 1 live game on Sky than the BBC offer for highlights of all games across a season in the top flight of Scottish football.

How little its valued, or how little its worth?

Im a st holding fan of a scottish club and i never watch sportscene. If they cant attract open goal fans like me, maybe its not worth paying for?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

:agree: £204m over 3 years - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2931485/BBC-retain-Premier-League-rights-2019-ITV-fail-submit-bid.html

Its as meaningless a comparison as comparing the Spanish or italian tv deals.

Premiership is on a different planet, and bbc england have a domestic audience of 65m, not 5 million.

[Sioux]

Happy days. Just think of the number of roasters that'll be out a job. That wee biskunts for starters! Chick Dung no more, Willie Miller no more, Steven Thompson......etc etc

Stick to your guns BBC and GTF!

[Smartie]

I can just imagine Doncaster's negotiating.

ND - But………Rangers!
BBC - Naw! £1.4m!
ND - But…..but……but…….Rangers!
BBC - Naw! £1.4m!
ND - etc etc etc

[Green Cabbage 7]

Its as meaningless a comparison as comparing the Spanish or italian tv deals.

Premiership is on a different planet, and bbc england have a domestic audience of 65m, not 5 million.


Maybe but as a publicly owned company(TV licence) that should not come into it, we are paying the same fee as anyone else and so deserve our share back out the pot. Which would be roughly 10% of the deal the epl get.

[NAE NOOKIE]

1.4 million is a joke. BBC Scotland need to fill air time remember and that costs money .... doing it with football is a cheap alternative to actually making programmes.

For that reason alone the product is worth 3 million quid and if the SPFL end up without a deal in the end they will still have done the right thing

[marinello59]

Maybe but as a publicly owned company(TV licence) that should not come into it, we are paying the same fee as anyone else and so deserve our share back out the pot. Which would be roughly 10% of the deal the epl get.
It can't work like that. If public money is being spent to purchase a service then that has to be done at the going rate. It's up to the football clubs themselves to make their product more attractive and therefore worthy of a higher price. You can't expect licence payers to subsidise a mismanaged game.

[Lago]

No Richard Gordon:greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

It can't work like that. If public money is being spent to purchase a service then that has to be done at the going rate. It's up to the football clubs themselves to make their product more attractive and therefore worthy of a higher price. You can't expect licence payers to subsidise a mismanaged game.

That's one side of it ..... but I would be willing to bet that BBC Alba's biggest viewing figures are for its football coverage and the same with Radio Scotland's listening figures most weekends.

The BBC would still have to spend money to fill hundreds ( thousands ? ) of hours of air time that it currently fills with football ..... how much of that 3 million quid would they actually be saving?

Not only that, but politically how would it look? Justified or not the BBC is already under pressure to show that it is committed to its Scottish output and refusing to give the SPFL a deal for the whole of Scottish football that is only a third more than it gives Gary Lineker for presenting Match of the Day would look like a slap in the face .......... hell, it is a slap in the face.

I don't know how these things work these days, but would it be within the power of the SFA / SPFL or UEFA to block broadcast of a countries football in a different member country ..... if the answer is yes then the first thing that should happen is that our Blazers should block broadcast of Match of the Day and the BBC's FA cup live broadcasts in Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

How many subscriber could an spfl TV internet channel realistically get? 100,000 @ £10 a month? That would bring in £12m a year. Allowing have that for production costs and the clubs are still well ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

How many subscriber could an spfl TV internet channel realistically get? 100,000 @ £10 a month? That would bring in £12m a year. Allowing have that for production costs and the clubs are still well ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Could it not be some sort of multimedia channel?

They could do online radio coverage, maybe even flog the radio product to the local radio stations?

Clubs could even give discounts on membership/subscription with season tickets?

I love the wee bits they do at half-time on the ALBA channel and would happily watch more of that.

There's always the danger that it will just end up being an Old Firm channel though.

It's a risky one but I think going for something like this has to be a risk worth taking at some point. It's getting pretty degrading trying to feel grateful for the scraps that the like of the BBC chuck away from the top table.

[Danderhall Hibs]

How many subscriber could an spfl TV internet channel realistically get? 100,000 @ £10 a month? That would bring in £12m a year. Allowing have that for production costs and the clubs are still well ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was laughed out when proposed a few years ago wasn't it?

[Thecat23]

Fingers crossed they don't strike a deal and everyone involved with that horrible show they do are out of a job! 👋🏼😁

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Maybe but as a publicly owned company(TV licence) that should not come into it, we are paying the same fee as anyone else and so deserve our share back out the pot. Which would be roughly 10% of the deal the epl get.

Im sure we do, BBC Scotland will be funded in such a way im sure.

But again it comes back to what is it worth? and we would be getting it twice, remember that we get to watch MOTD, so we will effectively have to pay for that, as well as then paying for Scottish fitba (which english viewers dont get).

The BBC has no obligation to fund Scottish football (nor should it be) - they should absolutely be driving the hardest bargain they can to make best use of taxpayers money.

Are you seriously suggesting that they should be going into a negotiation looking to pay MORE than the seller is willing to sell for?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

That's one side of it ..... but I would be willing to bet that BBC Alba's biggest viewing figures are for its football coverage and the same with Radio Scotland's listening figures most weekends.

The BBC would still have to spend money to fill hundreds ( thousands ? ) of hours of air time that it currently fills with football ..... how much of that 3 million quid would they actually be saving?

Not only that, but politically how would it look? Justified or not the BBC is already under pressure to show that it is committed to its Scottish output and refusing to give the SPFL a deal for the whole of Scottish football that is only a third more than it gives Gary Lineker for presenting Match of the Day would look like a slap in the face .......... hell, it is a slap in the face.

I don't know how these things work these days, but would it be within the power of the SFA / SPFL or UEFA to block broadcast of a countries football in a different member country ..... if the answer is yes then the first thing that should happen is that our Blazers should block broadcast of Match of the Day and the BBC's FA cup live broadcasts in Scotland.


I watch MOTD most weeks, and i never watch Sportscene, so i should be disadvantaged by a national broadcaster, to keep some terribly run football clubs, part of a terribly run game, solvent with my tax?

Plus, with digital i would just watch the English BBC - which i do on a Sunday night when MOTD 2 gets shunted to make way for Sportscene.

[NAE NOOKIE]

[/B]


I watch MOTD most weeks, and i never watch Sportscene, so i should be disadvantaged by a national broadcaster, to keep some terribly run football clubs, part of a terribly run game, solvent with my tax?

Plus, with digital i would just watch the English BBC - which i do on a Sunday night when MOTD 2 gets shunted to make way for Sportscene.

Yeh .......... well some of us want to see Scottish football survive and one day start thriving again. Its easy to stick the boot in and a lot harder to try and look for a solution ..... the EPL is packed with terribly run football clubs as well who are billions of quid in debt in spite of the TV money and shaft their fans seven ways from Sunday over ticket prices ..... I don't suppose giving them your tax is a problem though.

[Beefster]

1.4 million is a joke. BBC Scotland need to fill air time remember and that costs money .... doing it with football is a cheap alternative to actually making programmes.

For that reason alone the product is worth 3 million quid and if the SPFL end up without a deal in the end they will still have done the right thing

If that was true, STV, Channels 4 and 5 would all be bidding. The BBC don't have any competition so there is no incentive to pay more.

[SJM]

After the spl tv disaster have to be careful what we wish for.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If that was true, STV, Channels 4 and 5 would all be bidding. The BBC don't have any competition so there is no incentive to pay more.

Probably true Beefster, but I would still be interested to see how much it would cost the BBC to replace the airtime they currently fill on the cheap with SPFL football ..... I still think that's something in the SPFL's favour. It costs well over £150,000 per episode for River City, which for 52 episodes works out at £7,800,000 a year and its viewing figures are rubbish for a prime time soap. Filling 10 times the air time for less than half the cost seems like a deal to me.

As I said .... BBC Scotland is under pressure to up the indigenous content of its output ( a problem CH4, CH5 and as far as I know STV don't have ) which means repeats of English made and based TV shows are out and there is only so much hoochter teuchter stuff or repeats of 'still game' you can fill the schedule with .... dramas and soaps are expensive to produce, so Scottish football, even at 3 million quid not only ticks the right box, its still cheap compared to producing you own shows.

So for me the question of competition isn't the whole picture when it comes to this .... Its not so much how much it would cost the BBC to show the SPFL, but how much would it cost them both financially and politically if they couldn't.

For that reason I don't think the SPFL's position is as weak as it might look at first glance.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

[QUOTE=NAE NOOKIE;4647380]Yeh .......... well some of us want to see Scottish football survive and one day start thriving again. Its easy to stick the boot in and a lot harder to try and look for a solution ..... the EPL is packed with terribly run football clubs as well who are billions of quid in debt in spite of the TV money and shaft their fans seven ways from Sunday over ticket prices ..... I don't suppose giving them your tax

But at the moment bbc showed both so were all happy.

I just dont expect them to dish out charity money to scottish fitba, you obviously do.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't remember spl TV as a disaster? Was it not more of an idea that just never got off the ground?
The big difference now is technology has changed. The old spl TV idea was to rent channel space on SKY and Virgin Media and set up a subscription service. Very expensive. Now the whole thing can be delivered over the Internet for a fraction of the cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Probably true Beefster, but I would still be interested to see how much it would cost the BBC to replace the airtime they currently fill on the cheap with SPFL football ..... I still think that's something in the SPFL's favour. It costs well over £150,000 per episode for River City, which for 52 episodes works out at £7,800,000 a year and its viewing figures are rubbish for a prime time soap. Filling 10 times the air time for less than half the cost seems like a deal to me.

As I said .... BBC Scotland is under pressure to up the indigenous content of its output ( a problem CH4, CH5 and as far as I know STV don't have ) which means repeats of English made and based TV shows are out and there is only so much hoochter teuchter stuff or repeats of 'still game' you can fill the schedule with .... dramas and soaps are expensive to produce, so Scottish football, even at 3 million quid not only ticks the right box, its still cheap compared to producing you own shows.

So for me the question of competition isn't the whole picture when it comes to this .... Its not so much how much it would cost the BBC to show the SPFL, but how much would it cost them both financially and politically if they couldn't.

For that reason I don't think the SPFL's position is as weak as it might look at first glance.

I would hope that the BBC would be aspiring to something more than filling airtime on the cheap with fitba. Talksport do that job on the radio.

[truehibernian]

Fingers crossed they don't strike a deal and everyone involved with that horrible show they do are out of a job! 👋🏼😁

It's all subjective TC - I like Jim Spence a lot, think CP is very fair and honest (hurts him when Hibs lose), I think Tam McManus has added something, and I like Barry Wilson and Mark Wilson - I think they're very balanced and have good knowledge of the game.

What's a wee bit disappointing is its turned into football panto - I loved MS getting torn into Billy Brown though !

[marinello59]

I don't remember spl TV as a disaster? Was it not more of an idea that just never got off the ground?
The big difference now is technology has changed. The old spl TV idea was to rent channel space on SKY and Virgin Media and set up a subscription service. Very expensive. Now the whole thing can be delivered over the Internet for a fraction of the cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They would be counting on people being able to afford to pay an extra tenner a month on top of their existing subscriptions or cancelling the other multi - sport channels. Personally I think a tenner a month would be too much I ask for an SPFL only channel.

[bingo70]

They would be counting on people being able to afford to pay an extra tenner a month on top of their existing subscriptions or cancelling the other multi - sport channels. Personally I think a tenner a month would be too much I ask for an SPFL only channel.

I'd happily pay a tenner a month and cancel my other sports channels. Scottish football is all I'm really interested in.

It'd be good to see a channel promoting our game for a change.

[hhibs]

I don't remember spl TV as a disaster? Was it not more of an idea that just never got off the ground?
The big difference now is technology has changed. The old spl TV idea was to rent channel space on SKY and Virgin Media and set up a subscription service. Very expensive. Now the whole thing can be delivered over the Internet for a fraction of the cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that previous poster is mixed up,Setanta is what I think he is alluding to as a "disaster"

The SPl channel got stuffed before it got going....The then old firm and Aberdeen where against it(I think)

Netherlands have there own Erdevisie TV and that has I believe been a major success.

Given technology available now would think more options would be available,however would not trust those clowns in charge to organise a piss up in a brewery !
Needs the expertise of someone like Barry Hearn or alike but that bunch of tossers would **** themselves rather than do that.

[marinello59]

I'd happily pay a tenner a month and cancel my other sports channels. Scottish football is all I'm really interested in.

It'd be good to see a channel promoting our game for a change.

There will be plenty who would support it. I like too many other sports to cancel my other subscriptions and I only ever watch Scottish football if Hibs are playing. And that is usually in the stadium.

[hhibs]

Yeh .......... well some of us want to see Scottish football survive and one day start thriving again. Its easy to stick the boot in and a lot harder to try and look for a solution ..... the EPL is packed with terribly run football clubs as well who are billions of quid in debt in spite of the TV money and shaft their fans seven ways from Sunday over ticket prices ..... I don't suppose giving them your tax is a problem though.

This 100%.

[Eyrie]

I'd happily pay a tenner a month and cancel my other sports channels. Scottish football is all I'm really interested in.

It'd be good to see a channel promoting our game for a change.

I wouldn't.

I'd pay a fiver to watch each time Hibs play, and that would be it. I have no interest in paying a tenner a month to watch Inverness vs Hearts ("The press box windows need washed" being the game highlight) or whichever Ugly Sister is away that week.

[hhibs]

I'd happily pay a tenner a month and cancel my other sports channels. Scottish football is all I'm really interested in.

It'd be good to see a channel promoting our game for a change.


Agreed.

[zlatan]

Yup, I'd love an app/subscription style set up. Live games, huge catalogue of archived matches, proper highlights show etc. There's enough of a core fanbase to make it work across all 4 divisions.

[bingo70]

I wouldn't.

I'd pay a fiver to watch each time Hibs play, and that would be it. I have no interest in paying a tenner a month to watch Inverness vs Hearts ("The press box windows need washed" being the game highlight) or whichever Ugly Sister is away that week.

Yeah, I realise I'd be in the minority and it probably wouldn't be viable but it would be of interest to me.

I'm finding myself getting less and less interested in the bigger leagues, I'd rather watch something like Motherwell Against Aberdeen than west brom against man city for example. The more I watch of top level football I watch the more interested I am in going to give amateur football a watch.

I certainly gave up on the champions league ages ago

[hhibs]

Yeah, I realise I'd be in the minority and it probably wouldn't be viable but it would be of interest to me.

I'm finding myself getting less and less interested in the bigger leagues, I'd rather watch something like Motherwell Against Aberdeen than west brom against man city for example. The more I watch of top level football I watch the more interested I am in going to give amateur football a watch.

I certainly gave up on the champions league ages ago


Not sure you are in a minority though IMHO

[hhibs]

Yup, I'd love an app/subscription style set up. Live games, huge catalogue of archived matches, proper highlights show etc. There's enough of a core fanbase to make it work across all 4 divisions.

Yes indeed.

[marinello59]

Yeah, I realise I'd be in the minority and it probably wouldn't be viable but it would be of interest to me.

I'm finding myself getting less and less interested in the bigger leagues, I'd rather watch something like Motherwell Against Aberdeen than west brom against man city for example. The more I watch of top level football I watch the more interested I am in going to give amateur football a watch.

I certainly gave up on the champions league ages ago


It would be a big minority. The champions league lost its appeal for me years ago. If I'm not watching Hibs I'm more liklely to go take a Highland League game in than watch anything on TV though.

[eastterrace]

It would be a big minority. The champions league lost its appeal for me years ago. If I'm not watching Hibs I'm more liklely to go take a Highland League game in than watch anything on TV though. yes find champions league boring cannie be bothered watching it, even epl Stoke against west brom just pure pish games like that.

[Ozyhibby]

They would be counting on people being able to afford to pay an extra tenner a month on top of their existing subscriptions or cancelling the other multi - sport channels. Personally I think a tenner a month would be too much I ask for an SPFL only channel.

I just picked that figure out the air. Maybe £5 is more realistic seen as Netflix is only £6.[emoji3]
I'm not sure what level of subscribers is realistic but maybe 200,000 is possible? That's only half the yams.[emoji23]

[zlatan]

I just picked that figure out the air. Maybe £5 is more realistic seen as Netflix is only £6.[emoji3]
I'm not sure what level of subscribers is realistic but maybe 200,000 is possible? That's only half the yams.[emoji23]

There must be a little over 100,000 season ticket holders in Scotland over the 4 leagues plus countless ex pats that would love to keep up to date with things. Fiver a pop with 100,000 subscribers is £6m for the year.

Let Sky and BT have their first picks but set up a chromecast/firestick compatible app to show other live matches, dedicated highlight shows for all divisions, preview and review shows, huns and celtic can have their own phone in's, round up shows etc and then open the archives 30/40 years of highlights for everyones perusal. Well worth a fiver a month and minus the running costs still left with way more than 1.4m

[Nicho87]

Who was in charge to settle for that crumb of money in the first place

[Eyrie]

Yeah, I realise I'd be in the minority and it probably wouldn't be viable but it would be of interest to me.

I'm finding myself getting less and less interested in the bigger leagues, I'd rather watch something like Motherwell Against Aberdeen than west brom against man city for example. The more I watch of top level football I watch the more interested I am in going to give amateur football a watch.

I certainly gave up on the champions league ages ago

Normally I'd watch the big English matches but I was too busy watching the RWC last autumn to see any and so my interest this season never got going. I've only seen half a dozen games at most.

Can't remember the last time I watched the Champions League, or indeed wanted to.

[Jim44]

They would be sorely missed but I'm sure we would soon get over it. :bye:

[givescotlandfreedom]

I have Hibs TV and don't watch sportscene except for the odd cup weekend. Sportsound even less

[JCR6311]

How many subscriber could an spfl TV internet channel realistically get? 100,000 @ £10 a month? That would bring in £12m a year. Allowing have that for production costs and the clubs are still well ahead

Problem is you'd likely need it to show every game (except the ones on Sky/BT) for it to draw and that would likely kill the live gates.

[Bristolhibby]

I'd happily pay a tenner a month and cancel my other sports channels. Scottish football is all I'm really interested in.

It'd be good to see a channel promoting our game for a change.

I'd pay a tenner. We should go the whole hog like in Holland or in America with the NFL.

Have all games live on a web based streaming service. The customer then chooses the match they want to watch. And yes I'm talking 15:00 on Saturday games.

J

[Andy74]

If that was true, STV, Channels 4 and 5 would all be bidding. The BBC don't have any competition so there is no incentive to pay more.

I was going to say this. If it is such a cheap deal then someone else will pay more.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Great wee clip of Archie scoring in this one, in the boxing clip that's some punch! :cb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qlGUPHHUY

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I'm not too surprised with this. I've felt that the editorial decisions at the BBC have been more commecially orientated - hence the tactics of being overtly contrversial and sensational to stir things up attract viewers / listeners. It's either to go on the CV or that come the break up of the bbc these guys will open to being commercialised (subscription based access/advertising?) or spun off. No evidence just a suspicious mind.

[Winston Ingram]

1.4m? They pay Gary Lineker and Graham Norton more than that ffs!!

Cos they're likely to get more viewers than Scottish football

[NAE NOOKIE]

[QUOTE=NAE NOOKIE;4647380]Yeh .......... well some of us want to see Scottish football survive and one day start thriving again. Its easy to stick the boot in and a lot harder to try and look for a solution ..... the EPL is packed with terribly run football clubs as well who are billions of quid in debt in spite of the TV money and shaft their fans seven ways from Sunday over ticket prices ..... I don't suppose giving them your tax

But at the moment bbc showed both so were all happy.

I just dont expect them to dish out charity money to scottish fitba, you obviously do.

I gave reasons why I think 3 million quid might still be a good deal for the BBC in the current climate. As for charity being dished out from public funds to football, perhaps you need to have a look at the West Ham Utd / Olympic stadium deal and you'll see that Scottish football is lagging way behind when it comes to stiffing the public purse.

[HappyHibby93]

I notice that the Twitter won the rights to show some NFL games online. I'm not saying that this is the answer, but it would could be an option. £3 million would be absolutely nothing to a group like that, and it would also leave fans happy, as it would be accessible to the majority of supporters. Sounds to much like forward thinking for the SFA to go for that though