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View Full Version : Hands on Hibernian Minutes of Meeting



Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 11:43 AM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=477949939013660&substory_index=0&id=463793980429256

Viva_Palmeiras
14-10-2014, 12:05 PM
Firstly thanks for sharing !

Excerpt:

"Notes from Hands On Hibs meeting, Wed 8th October.

Opening Remarks:

Hands On Hibs strategy was outlined. There is a need to focus on the 2 key issues. a) That football club and the stadium must be kept together. The stadium must be owned by the football club. b) Farmer said he saved the club for the community and he must now make good on that statement. He must publicly commit to passing the club into community ownership. We can then all work together to identify the best model for Hibs.

HOH believe Hibs fans and the various groups can unite around these two basic demands. We accept people have different ideas about what should come after Farmer but we must at this point focus on what we agree on and not on what we disagree about.

We have a small window of opportunity to create the space for change. Hands On Hibs are not involved with any other group or consortium. Our only agenda is changing Hibs for the better.

The complexity of the clubs ownership structure is designed to confuse. As is the club's fake consultations, appointment of Leeane Dempster etc etc. These are all mechanisms designed to divert attention and divide Hibs supporters. We must stay focused. We need an organised and disciplined campaign.

Hands on Hibs are committed to openness and transparency. We demand that of the club and must apply that standard to ourselves. Any correspondence with the club must be made public. Secrecy breeds suspicion. That is why the club picks certain supporters groups for coffee with LD or provides them with 'exclusive' interviews etc. It's divide and conquer. Hands On Hibs will not be manipulated in this way.

Points from attendees:

- We need to get out there and change Hibs fans minds. The way to do this is through information."

Some questions...

Re openness and transparency who are the figure heads of HOH - is there a link with the previous HOH? Is if Brad Welsh? / hibiLeaks ?

Who/how is direction determined?

If linked to hibiLeaks and we're dealing with rumour not facts, where are the facts to back any claims made (or is that part of the keeping discipline piece?)

When are the meetings and will they be publicised in advance on the usual forums?

Does Changing Hibs fans minds relate to ownership or a variety of things - if so which?

AndyM_1875
14-10-2014, 12:38 PM
Firstly thanks for sharing !

Excerpt:

"Notes from Hands On Hibs meeting, Wed 8th October.

Opening Remarks:

Hands On Hibs strategy was outlined. There is a need to focus on the 2 key issues. a) That football club and the stadium must be kept together. The stadium must be owned by the football club. b) Farmer said he saved the club for the community and he must now make good on that statement. He must publicly commit to passing the club into community ownership. We can then all work together to identify the best model for Hibs.

HOH believe Hibs fans and the various groups can unite around these two basic demands. We accept people have different ideas about what should come after Farmer but we must at this point focus on what we agree on and not on what we disagree about.

We have a small window of opportunity to create the space for change. Hands On Hibs are not involved with any other group or consortium. Our only agenda is changing Hibs for the better.

The complexity of the clubs ownership structure is designed to confuse. As is the club's fake consultations, appointment of Leeane Dempster etc etc. These are all mechanisms designed to divert attention and divide Hibs supporters. We must stay focused. We need an organised and disciplined campaign.

Hands on Hibs are committed to openness and transparency. We demand that of the club and must apply that standard to ourselves. Any correspondence with the club must be made public. Secrecy breeds suspicion. That is why the club picks certain supporters groups for coffee with LD or provides them with 'exclusive' interviews etc. It's divide and conquer. Hands On Hibs will not be manipulated in this way.

Points from attendees:

- We need to get out there and change Hibs fans minds. The way to do this is through information."

Some questions...

Re openness and transparency who are the figure heads of HOH - is there a link with the previous HOH? Is if Brad Welsh? / hibiLeaks ?

Who/how is direction determined?

If linked to hibiLeaks and we're dealing with rumour not facts, where are the facts to back any claims made (or is that part of the keeping discipline piece?)

When are the meetings and will they be publicised in advance on the usual forums?

Does Changing Hibs fans minds relate to ownership or a variety of things - if so which?





Where to start with that.....:greengrin

matty_f
14-10-2014, 12:45 PM
With some of the claims in there I find it very hard to a) take them seriously and b) get behind them.

Weststandwanab
14-10-2014, 12:50 PM
Ditto the last post

smurf
14-10-2014, 12:52 PM
With some of the claims in there I find it very hard to a) take them seriously and b) get behind them.

What one's?

Pretty Boy
14-10-2014, 12:58 PM
I'll probably wait for something with a bit more substance to come along before I throw my weight behind it.

Big Frank
14-10-2014, 01:00 PM
With some of the claims in there I find it very hard to a) take them seriously and b) get behind them.


So they are best ignored in your opinion?

Big Frank
14-10-2014, 01:01 PM
I'll probably wait for something with a bit more substance to come along before I throw my weight behind it.


What kind of substance?

first thing Im thinking is do these guys have any cash!! (which is probably the complete wrong angle!)

JimBHibees
14-10-2014, 01:13 PM
What kind of substance?

first thing Im thinking is do these guys have any cash!! (which is probably the complete wrong angle!)

Who are they would be one?

wookie70
14-10-2014, 01:18 PM
It must have been a pretty rambling meeting if those are the minutes. There is a huge contradiction in moaning at Hibs for being secretive and then stating -View expressed that HOH should use the information we have to reveal the facts of Farmer's business dealing with Hibs assets. If HoH are as open as they suggest then all these details would have already have been published.

The two key issues of the strategy are very poorly described and are hopeful outcomes rather than strategies. How are they going to get their wishes! Both are dependent on the club and STF and it doesn't sound like the group are exactly sweet talking their opposition.
I wasn't at the meeting and don't know too much about HoH apart from what I have read on this forum but organisation is a vital component when trying to force change. If the minutes are anything to go by then I imagine they will not be a force to be reckoned with.

matty_f
14-10-2014, 01:27 PM
What one's?

The complexity of the clubs ownership structure is designed to confuse. As is the club's fake consultations, appointment of Leeane Dempster etc etc. These are all mechanisms designed to divert attention and divide Hibs supporters. We must stay focused. We need an organised and disciplined campaign.

And:

Secrecy breeds suspicion. That is why the club picks certain supporters groups for coffee with LD or provides them with 'exclusive' interviews etc

CropleyWasGod
14-10-2014, 01:41 PM
The complexity of the clubs ownership structure is designed to confuse. As is the club's fake consultations, appointment of Leeane Dempster etc etc. These are all mechanisms designed to divert attention and divide Hibs supporters. We must stay focused. We need an organised and disciplined campaign.

And:

Secrecy breeds suspicion. That is why the club picks certain supporters groups for coffee with LD or provides them with 'exclusive' interviews etc

Yeah, that caught my eye too.

I don't see what's complex about the ownership structure, TBH. 98% of the shares are owned by another company, the rest by supporters.

matty_f
14-10-2014, 01:47 PM
Yeah, that caught my eye too.

I don't see what's complex about the ownership structure, TBH. 98% of the shares are owned by another company, the rest by supporters.

Still to see any evidence of any financial shenanigans on STF's part, despite this group hinting heavily at it.

marinello59
14-10-2014, 01:50 PM
I'm getting confused here now. Was there not another group who recently called for everybody to unite under their banner to move things forward? The one that meant in the supporters club maybe? Does anybody know if Hands on Hibs have contacted them and offered to work together? Hopefully these two groups are talking behind the scenes so that the vast majority of the support who wish change at the top can unite behind one banner.

CropleyWasGod
14-10-2014, 01:51 PM
Still to see any evidence of any financial shenanigans on STF's part, despite this group hinting heavily at it.

Me neither, despite asking the questions in various fora. :greengrin

I do wonder if, by suggesting that "things are complicated", they are trying to set up a suspicion or assumption that "complicated" means "underhand".

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 01:53 PM
The beat thing though is dialogue being maintained between the fan groups. Rather than shutting it down. We can always find insult if that's our focus. There is so much more to be agreed upon Imho. It's good to talk.

matty_f
14-10-2014, 01:56 PM
The beat thing though is dialogue being maintained between the fan groups. Rather than shutting it down. We can always find insult if that's our focus. There is so much more to be agreed upon Imho. It's good to talk.

I don't see any insults here?

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 01:57 PM
"I find it very hard to take them seriously" that kind of shuts things down before they get going.

marinello59
14-10-2014, 02:03 PM
"I find it very hard to take them seriously" that kind of shuts things down before they get going.

One personal opinion, hardly an insult is it? You know what it's like, if you stick your head above the parapet then thicker skin than normal is required.:greengrin
Most Hibs fans I talk to seem to want some sort of change, something to unite everybody can only be a good thing so I look forward to getting a bit more detail on what this group plans.

matty_f
14-10-2014, 02:03 PM
"I find it very hard to take them seriously" that kind of shuts things down before they get going.

Not really, it's my opinion and I'd be a helluva surprised if that influenced anyone at all.

IMHO, folk are far more likely to be switched off by spurious claims and unfounded accusations than they are by people's responses to them.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 02:06 PM
I see nothing spurious or unfounded. And isn't it best to keep the channels for dialogue open? I know, it does make me a hypocrite historically. At this time though, particularly at this time, we need multi lateral action and to keep talking amongst ourselves. Imho of course.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 02:06 PM
My point was it does little to keep channels open.

CropleyWasGod
14-10-2014, 02:08 PM
I see nothing spurious or unfounded. And isn't it best to keep the channels for dialogue open? I know, it does make me a hypocrite historically. At this time though, particularly at this time, we need multi lateral action and to keep talking amongst ourselves. Imho of course.

There was the spurious comment about the ownership of East Mains. I'm not sure to whom that should be attributed, whether it's HOH or someone else.

matty_f
14-10-2014, 02:10 PM
My point was it does little to keep channels open.

My question would be "why should I do anything to keep dialogue open with this group when they have thrown accusations about STF around, are making demands with no mandate to do so, and are implying that Dempster's appointment was done to confuse and split the support?"

Big Frank
14-10-2014, 02:28 PM
Who are they would be one?

Agreed :agree:


Admins, 3 admins on the thread, none of them seem enthused.

Wondered if there is a bit of piss and wind going on (as a complete outsider looking in).


Its all very bloody confusing to me!

matty_f
14-10-2014, 02:32 PM
Agreed :agree:


Admins, 3 admins on the thread, none of them seem enthused.

Wondered if there is a bit of piss and wind going on (as a complete outsider looking in).


Its all very bloody confusing to me!

None of the admins are posting with their Admin hats on, posts are purely personal opinion. Hibs.net has no position on any of the takeover groups one way or the other.

Big Frank
14-10-2014, 02:39 PM
None of the admins are posting with their Admin hats on, posts are purely personal opinion. Hibs.net has no position on any of the takeover groups one way or the other.

Which is nice.

Fans forums should be impartial as much as possible.

99% of us dinnae gie a toss about the crap behind the scenes.... the crap on the pitch on the otherhand :greengrin

I've never seen or heard of 1 group or 1 individual who has talked about any moneyin respect of newHibs, and everything seems very cackhanded from all sides.

to the average fan its confusing and a tad tedious tbh!

Pete
14-10-2014, 02:46 PM
to the average fan its confusing and a tad tedious tbh!

Very. I don't know what group is what or what's going on any more.

bigwheel
14-10-2014, 02:54 PM
I have a lot of misgivings about the actions of this group to date, and these minutes frankly suggest they are not a group with any real substance ...and their hibileaks activity has so far looked embarrassing...

That said, I love their mission statement "To support Hibernian Football Club, it's players and it's manager 100%".....

How many of us can honestly say we are doing that as well as we possibly can in this time of need....

DarlingtonHibee
14-10-2014, 03:16 PM
Re the notes from the meeting - can anyone answer this question ?

"Re openness and transparency who are the figure heads of HOH - is there a link with the previous HOH? Is if Brad Welsh? / hibiLeaks ?"

Also what long term financial security can they offer the club ?

Thanks

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:04 PM
Jim Slavin and Brad Welsh are the figure heads

No link to the previous Hands on Hibs. Though the ubiquitous Simon Pia was in attendance. Sean Allan one of the main players in the original Hands On Hibs has met with Jim, as I have myself. I was involved in the farmer group, formed to galvanise the support against the proposed move to Straiton.

Long term financial security. That is not what they are about. They want the club and stadium to be as one and for the location to be at Easter Road as far as I can see.

Hope that helps.

Kev

CropleyWasGod
14-10-2014, 04:05 PM
Jim Slavin and Brad Welsh are the figure heads

No link to the previous Hands on Hibs. Though the ubiquitous Simon Pia was in attendance. Sean Allan one of the main players in the original Hands On Hibs has met with Jim, as I have myself. I was involved in the farmer group, formed to galvanise the support against the proposed move to Straiton.

Long term financial security. That is not what they are about. They want the club and stadium to be as one and for the location to be at Easter Road as far as I can see.

Hope that helps.

Kev

Is there a suggestion that this wouldn't be the case?

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:06 PM
I sense it's an implication.

Pretty Boy
14-10-2014, 04:09 PM
Jim Slavin and Brad Welsh are the figure heads

No link to the previous Hands on Hibs. Though the ubiquitous Simon Pia was in attendance. Sean Allan one of the main players in the original Hands On Hibs has met with Jim, as I have myself. I was involved in the farmer group, formed to galvanise the support against the proposed move to Straiton.

Long term financial security. That is not what they are about. They want the club and stadium to be as one and for the location to be at Easter Road as far as I can see.

Hope that helps.

Kev

Devils advocate here but what if the seperation of club and stadium was actually a way to bring about ownership change?

It is probably the land assets that are worth the most when it comes to a sale so what if STF offered to sell the football club brand to a new owner but the stadium and EM remained in trust?

And is Jim Slavin the ex Celtic and Partick Thistle defender of the same name or someone else entirely?

BroxburnHibee
14-10-2014, 04:14 PM
Jim Slavin and Brad Welsh are the figure heads

No link to the previous Hands on Hibs. Though the ubiquitous Simon Pia was in attendance. Sean Allan one of the main players in the original Hands On Hibs has met with Jim, as I have myself. I was involved in the farmer group, formed to galvanise the support against the proposed move to Straiton.

Long term financial security. That is not what they are about. They want the club and stadium to be as one and for the location to be at Easter Road as far as I can see.

Hope that helps.

Kev

I don't know Jim Slavin at all but Brad Welsh will never be speaking for me given his history.

Sorry I'm out - and that's my personal opinion nothing to do with my admin position here.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:17 PM
Good point. Wouldn't that be contrary to his desire to pass it on to the community? I'm no surveyor but the land value would seem to the most valuable asset.

Hibstrooper
14-10-2014, 04:18 PM
I'm not sure I can back these guys however I'm willing to get behind the People's Front of Judea and their Twitter campaign.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:18 PM
The thing about History, we all have one. I'm not sure how you can be out though, given you weren't in?

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:18 PM
How's that coming on and are you sure it's not the United People's front of Judea;)

BroxburnHibee
14-10-2014, 04:20 PM
The thing about History, we all have one. I'm not sure how you can be out though, given you weren't in?

You can play with words if you want - my point is this group will never have my support.

That clear enough for you?

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:21 PM
It's not really me you ought to be addressing that too. You're opinion is now clear to all though, if that helps?

Golden Bear
14-10-2014, 04:22 PM
"We should target the owner and his reputation via a guerrilla marketing campaign"

What exactly would that entail?


It all sounds a bit sinister to me.

CropleyWasGod
14-10-2014, 04:23 PM
Good point. Wouldn't that be contrary to his desire to pass it on to the community? I'm no surveyor but the land value would seem to the most valuable asset.

By putting it in trust, that would be passing it on to the community, no?

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:25 PM
I'm not sure, I've never been involved in guerrilla marketing. It seems audacious to me, guerilla's historically have had to fight against overwhelming odds using their wits and cunning. I'd imagine it mean that. You could always address them to the group itself. They are on facebook? Openness and transparency is what they are after.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:26 PM
It would depend on how the trust was set up. I think that's what they seem to be challenging.

SunshineOnLeith
14-10-2014, 04:27 PM
Any apology forthcoming for the distribution of malicious lies yet?

BroxburnHibee
14-10-2014, 04:27 PM
It's not really me you ought to be addressing that too. You're opinion is now clear to all though, if that helps?

Apologies if I picked you up wrong - given that you were posting teasing comments about this statement coming today.

Are you now saying you have nothing to do with this group/campaign?

Hibstrooper
14-10-2014, 04:28 PM
How's that coming on and are you sure it's not the United People's front of Judea;)

Seriously though, this is all becoming as hard to track as The Rangers boardroom shenanigans.

Every group talks about not letting Petrie/Farmer divide and conquer however that's exactly what has happened and why no one can get any traction.

I don't believe this is the right time anyway as the support is so fragmented. Only focus right now should be on the pitch and supporting Stubbs.

That's all just my opinion though and reflects the feedback I've given via online surveys for the club and paper surveys for the Judean People's Front that I completed in 4 in Hand

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:30 PM
Any apology forthcoming for the distribution of malicious lies yet?

This the facebook site, you could take that up with them directly?

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:32 PM
Apologies if I picked you up wrong - given that you were posting teasing comments about this statement coming today.

Are you now saying you have nothing to do with this group/campaign?

This is not the statement to which naughty John Campbell was referring when he said I was a "tease"

The HOH guys have been open and transparent check out their fb pages
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=477949939013660&substory_index=0&id=463793980429256

No need to apologise, this is an imperfect medium.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:33 PM
Seriously though, this is all becoming as hard to track as The Rangers boardroom shenanigans.

Every group talks about not letting Petrie/Farmer divide and conquer however that's exactly what has happened and why no one can get any traction.

I don't believe this is the right time anyway as the support is so fragmented. Only focus right now should be on the pitch and supporting Stubbs.

That's all just my opinion though and reflects the feedback I've given via online surveys for the club and paper surveys for the Judean People's Front that I completed in 4 in Hand

Clearly a splittist😉

SunshineOnLeith
14-10-2014, 04:35 PM
This the facebook site, you could take that up with them directly?

Was more asking 'have they apologised...?' than asking for an apology. I've got zero interest in engaging with them directly.

Hibstrooper
14-10-2014, 04:36 PM
Clearly a splittist😉

Splitists, I hate them as I hate the Judean Peoples Popular Front...

And the Jambos

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:40 PM
Was more asking 'have they apologised...?' than asking for an apology. I've got zero interest in engaging with them directly.

No idea on that front, sorry.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:40 PM
Splitists, I hate them as I hate the Judean Peoples Popular Front...

And the Jambos

Quite right too👍

TheFamous1875
14-10-2014, 04:46 PM
Hands on Hibs, Hibernian Forever, and any other groups want the same thing all of us Hibs fans want: change. If those in charge really want change like they've proclaimed by hiring Dempster, etc, then surely they should try to get these groups on board because, if we all want the same thing, which is a successful Hibernian Football Club by a financially fair means, then we have more of a chance of achieving that by grouping together for this one cause.


The difficult thing is that in between where we are and where we want to be there is so much apathy and finger pointing and separation. What these groups need to do, along with supporter's groups, former players' associations and every other orifice of the club, is come to an fundamental agreement that the future of Hibs, under the stewardship of these amalgams of associations shall, in tow with any board, chairman or directors, always aim to be financially sound, and the focus of those finances will always be in insuring that we sign players of the standard required that can perform on the pitch to the standard expected and will benefit our academy graduates who come into the first team.


Experienced and talented first team leaders of whom are supplemented by promising youth from the academy - the two go toe-and-toe in building a successful football club.


Success on the pitch means more money, which means better players, which means better youth coming through, which means more money, more safety, more success, etc. Not every player will be a success and not every youth prospect will go on to be a Scott Brown or a Steven Fletcher, but there should never again be such a seismic dearth in standards as there has been since 2007.


What irks me about the two focal groups is their focus on the inflammatory. The fixation on Petrie being the villain and Farmer's alleged financial conspiring is chip paper pish. It holds no bearing or insight into how to fix the problems we have. Everyone and their dug kens Petrie's time is up. Everyone and their dugs' collar-manufacturer kens that Farmer, for all the good he has done, has not done anything resembling enough to intervene in our now chronic woe. The finger-pointing and lamenting of these two are immaterial points.


What I'm sure most fans want to know is that, should they be replaced, what are we replacing them with? The uncertainty to that key question is deafening. I don't want Petrie or Farmer to leave if what's replacing them is a bunch of sensationalists with very precarious plans and agendas (if any) in regards to achieving success. I admire these groups for their passion and their hard work, but I feel that rather than focusing on the pantomime and character-assassination, they should be giving us solutions and foundations that we can all get behind, and I believe the majority of us would if there were fundamentals in place that we could all agree on that ensured the safety and the constant ambition of our club.


Now, obviously it is not as simple as I may seem to be claiming; it's a difficult and sensitive process that requires the expertise of talented accountants, lawyers, managers, chairmen and owners. However, the simplicity of the fundamental agreement that Hibs' focus should forever be on investing fairly and safely in players and youth and letting the rest follow should be written into some kind of constitution for Hibernian Football Club. No billionaire football flirters, not iron fist frugalists with no ambition. There should be one sole ambition forever blinded into this club: good players and good youth. Anyone that has any say in the managing of Hibernian Football Club should sign this oath as it will never go out of date and should always be our sole ambition.


Let's use our family. Get Jimmy O'Rourke to scout. Get Peter Cormack to help the wingers - these are two club legends who've allegedly offered their services free of charge to the club with not even a hint of a reply in return. Let's even have Garry O'Connor (should he be able and willing) help the strikers and the youth in the community with his experiences. We've got a lot more potential than we have shown, and it's about time we put it all to good use.


If these groups can amalgamate over a simple foundation and agree on how to achieve it, then they can be stronger, and with people power they can truly make a difference to our shrunken, ghost of a club. If they can't agree on those simple foundations and how to achieve them, then maybe Petrie and Farmer are correct in their immediate rebuffs. We want safety, but we equally don't want complacency. Safety and complacency aren't bedfellows. If Hibernian Football Club's demise isn't a convincing enough case for that, then I don't know what is.

BroxburnHibee
14-10-2014, 04:56 PM
This is not the statement to which naughty John Campbell was referring when he said I was a "tease"

The HOH guys have been open and transparent check out their fb pages
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=477949939013660&substory_index=0&id=463793980429256

No need to apologise, this is an imperfect medium.

Fair enough.

You didn't answer my question though :wink:

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 04:56 PM
We are far from the point of demise, a state of torpor yes. Long way to go on this.

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 05:00 PM
Fair enough.

You didn't answer my question though :wink:

I support the broad aims, yes. I also support the broad aims of Hibs Net, the Bounce, the Footsoldiers and London Hibs. We are languishing at the wrong end of the wrong league. I'm less than convinced by the rhetoric so far, still less the inconsistency in the performances. It's all so wearingly familiar. Frankly anything right now, is better than what we have.

To quote the Proccies "their giving up in numbers"

DaveF
14-10-2014, 05:07 PM
The best thing though is dialogue being maintained between the fan groups. Rather than shutting it down. We can always find insult if that's our focus. There is so much more to be agreed upon Imho. It's good to talk.

So HOH want dialogue between fan groups and you advocating talking, yet the statement makes accusations of certain fans groups (who they do not identify) being invited in for coffee and given exclusive interviews? That's hardly an olive branch out to groups to bring them together, more like a sly dig for the hell of it.

Mibbes Aye
14-10-2014, 05:17 PM
"We should target the owner and his reputation via a guerrilla marketing campaign"

What exactly would that entail?


It all sounds a bit sinister to me.

Chic Guevara :dunno:

Purple & Green
14-10-2014, 05:23 PM
United we stand here, divided we fall
We play for each other, when we're on the ball

Plus ca change, plus ca le meme chose.

BroxburnHibee
14-10-2014, 05:39 PM
United we stand here, divided we fall
We play for each other, when we're on the ball

Plus ca change, plus ca le meme chose.

United we stand????

Maybe you should point that out to your fellow admin who seems to have some axe to grind with this site and the way it's run.

SunshineOnLeith
14-10-2014, 05:41 PM
Hands on Hibs, Hibernian Forever, and any other groups want the same thing all of us Hibs fans want: change. If those in charge really want change like they've proclaimed by hiring Dempster, etc, then surely they should try to get these groups on board because, if we all want the same thing, which is a successful Hibernian Football Club by a financially fair means, then we have more of a chance of achieving that by grouping together for this one cause.



I actually don't disagree with much of the rest of your post, but I strongly feel that the club shouldn't engage with the Hands on Hibs people. These are the charlatans who stood outside Easter Road on matchday and handed out fliers which hijacked Pat Stanton's 70th birthday in order to distribute lies about Farmer and the ownership of Hibs' assets.

Let them have their fun and stamp their feet, they'll tire themselves out eventually. But the best thing the club can do is just ignore them, as responding to or engaging with them just grants them and their lies an undeserved legitimacy.

WhileTheChief..
14-10-2014, 05:48 PM
So will this latest group showing an interest have any money to invest? Bet you anything it will come down to the fans financing things.

Plenty folk seem to think they could run Hibs better but always with other people's cash. A sure fire way for things to end in disaster.

Until such time as someone steps forward with real money of their own I'd prefer STF to hold on to his shares. He acts as our last lender if required, who will do that in the future?? You guessed it, us.

Whoever takes over would no doubt spend money they don't have and when the **** hits the fan it will be the fans they come crawling to to stave off admin.

If you want to own Hibs put up the cash. To do otherwise is simply wanting to have a shot of running our club safe in the knowledge that all the risk is borne by someone else. Check out Ibrox if you need a real life example.

Jonnyboy
14-10-2014, 06:04 PM
This is not the statement to which naughty John Campbell was referring when he said I was a "tease"

The HOH guys have been open and transparent check out their fb pages
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=477949939013660&substory_index=0&id=463793980429256

No need to apologise, this is an imperfect medium.

Oi, don't you be dragging me into this mess :aok:

As another poster has said, advocating unity and then slagging off those that have already met with LD is a poor starting point, don't you think K?

ancient hibee
14-10-2014, 06:06 PM
Think they should keep their Hands to themselves.

Chuck Rhoades
14-10-2014, 06:09 PM
The complexity of the clubs ownership structure is designed to confuse. As is the club's fake consultations, appointment of Leeane Dempster etc etc. These are all mechanisms designed to divert attention and divide Hibs supporters. We must stay focused. We need an organised and disciplined campaign.

And:

Secrecy breeds suspicion. That is why the club picks certain supporters groups for coffee with LD or provides them with 'exclusive' interviews etc

How can you disagree with the second point?

Pretty Boy
14-10-2014, 06:13 PM
How can you disagree with the second point?

Because he's a tosser apparently?

Peevemor
14-10-2014, 06:13 PM
How can you disagree with the second point?

So LD meets with fans to increase secrecy?

Riiight...

DaveF
14-10-2014, 06:14 PM
How can you disagree with the second point?

Who are the groups invited for Coffee with LD and can you link to the exclusive interviews? If this mob are going to take sly digs at people they might as well have the balls to name them IMO.

Ta.

Peevemor
14-10-2014, 06:14 PM
Because he's a tosser apparently?

:agree: I read that somewhere...

matty_f
14-10-2014, 06:15 PM
How can you disagree with the second point?

A) because I'm a tosser, and B) because I don't think the reason people met with any group was to create secrecy and suspicion. I don't for a second think that was their intention or motivation to meet anyone.

marinello59
14-10-2014, 06:17 PM
So will this latest group showing an interest have any money to invest? Bet you anything it will come down to the fans financing things.

Plenty folk seem to think they could run Hibs better but always with other people's cash. A sure fire way for things to end in disaster.

Until such time as someone steps forward with real money of their own I'd prefer STF to hold on to his shares. He acts as our last lender if required, who will do that in the future?? You guessed it, us.

Whoever takes over would no doubt spend money they don't have and when the **** hits the fan it will be the fans they come crawling to to stave off admin.

If you want to own Hibs put up the cash. To do otherwise is simply wanting to have a shot of running our club safe in the knowledge that all the risk is borne by someone else. Check out Ibrox if you need a real life example.

I think and group wanting to mount a successful bid for the club will need to have a mix of big investor and fan contributions. It can be done but only if everybody gets behind one bid which looks unlikely right now. I still hope that something comes out of the work done by Kanos group.

Jonnyboy
14-10-2014, 06:18 PM
A) because I'm a tosser, and B) because I don't think the reason people met with any group was to create secrecy and suspicion. I don't for a second think that was their intention or motivation to meet anyone.

Aye but you're our tosser Matty :greengrin

To suggest those that have met LD to create secrecy etc is just plain daft. Anyone that's met LD went into the meeting hoping to help put Hibs back where they belong. To deride them as secret keeping, coffee drinkers is beyond stupid :agree:

Pretty Boy
14-10-2014, 06:20 PM
Aye but you're our tosser Matty :greengrin

To suggest those that have met LD to create secrecy etc is just plain daft. Anyone that's met LD went into the meeting hoping to help put Hibs back where they belong. To deride them as secret keeping, coffee drinkers is beyond stupid :agree:

I'll confess to drinking coffee when I met her. No tasty secrets though.

TheFamous1875
14-10-2014, 06:21 PM
I actually don't disagree with much of the rest of your post, but I strongly feel that the club shouldn't engage with the Hands on Hibs people. These are the charlatans who stood outside Easter Road on matchday and handed out fliers which hijacked Pat Stanton's 70th birthday in order to distribute lies about Farmer and the ownership of Hibs' assets.

Let them have their fun and stamp their feet, they'll tire themselves out eventually. But the best thing the club can do is just ignore them, as responding to or engaging with them just grants them and their lies an undeserved legitimacy.

That's my point, really. Engage with them until they can't engage with you. If they can contribute their passion positively, it's to all our advantage. If not, then our collective scepticism is justified and they'll dissipate as expected. My point is, the passion is there even if it's misguided. Let's get a collective vision that the majority of us can unite for.

Chuck Rhoades
14-10-2014, 06:22 PM
A) because I'm a tosser, and B) because I don't think the reason people met with any group was to create secrecy and suspicion. I don't for a second think that was their intention or motivation to meet anyone.

Appreciate your direct response. As for the others...

FWIW, I don't believe meetings were held without inviting groups to increase suspicion/secrecy, my point was that groups have been left out, with some having to contact Hibs for inclusion.

Billy Whizz
14-10-2014, 06:23 PM
I'll confess to drinking coffee when I met her. No tasty secrets though.

Sorry, what meetings are we talking about?

Chuck Rhoades
14-10-2014, 06:25 PM
Do we know who is at the forefront of HOH driving it? Appreciate names on a public forum may not be the best idea; however a PM would be appreciated.

Heard the same person mentioned a couple of times, but could be hearsay...

marinello59
14-10-2014, 06:27 PM
Do we know who is at the forefront of HOH driving it? Appreciate names on a public forum may not be the best idea; however a PM would be appreciated.

Heard the same person mentioned a couple of times, but could be hearsay...

I think they are named earlier in this thread somewhere. I'm guessing the person you are thinking of is one of the names.

Mikey
14-10-2014, 06:28 PM
Jim Slavin and Brad Welsh are the figure heads

No link to the previous Hands on Hibs. Though the ubiquitous Simon Pia was in attendance. Sean Allan one of the main players in the original Hands On Hibs has met with Jim, as I have myself. I was involved in the farmer group, formed to galvanise the support against the proposed move to Straiton.

Long term financial security. That is not what they are about. They want the club and stadium to be as one and for the location to be at Easter Road as far as I can see.

Hope that helps.

Kev


Do we know who is at the forefront of HOH driving it? Appreciate names on a public forum may not be the best idea; however a PM would be appreciated.

Heard the same person mentioned a couple of times, but could be hearsay...

See above.

DaveF
14-10-2014, 06:33 PM
FWIW, I don't believe meetings were held without inviting groups to increase suspicion/secrecy, my point was that groups have been left out, with some having to contact Hibs for inclusion.

Right, so the earlier post you made about Matty not agreeing with the 2nd point, is something you don't actually believe to be true yourself?

So who was left out?

And what about those exclusive interviews? I've still to find \ read them.

matty_f
14-10-2014, 06:34 PM
Appreciate your direct response. As for the others...

FWIW, I don't believe meetings were held without inviting groups to increase suspicion/secrecy, my point was that groups have been left out, with some having to contact Hibs for inclusion.

It's practically impossible to get every group into every meeting. That's logistics rather than secrecy, IMHO. I don't know what line of work you're in Ross, but I know in each of my employments there have been many, many instances where meetings have gone ahead with some representation missing. Sometimes that was oversight, sometimes it was unavoidable, frequently it was done on the understanding that someone involved (not necessarily the chair) would feedback to the missing party.

It was never borne out of secrecy or malice though, and I don't think the supporters involved in those meetings would stand for it either.

When Sect 43 were meeting with the club regarding Hampden displays, were every Hibs group represented?

Cinntwamob
14-10-2014, 09:49 PM
Oi, don't you be dragging me into this mess :aok:

As another poster has said, advocating unity and then slagging off those that have already met with LD is a poor starting point, don't you think K?

You started it😂

I wouldn't have advised it. Still they are open enough and determined.

marinello59
15-10-2014, 05:39 AM
I assume they have contacted the SDS group to discuss the way forward given that both groups have now called for unity.

Big Frank
15-10-2014, 11:24 AM
It's practically impossible to get every group into every meeting. That's logistics rather than secrecy, IMHO. I don't know what line of work you're in Ross, but I know in each of my employments there have been many, many instances where meetings have gone ahead with some representation missing. Sometimes that was oversight, sometimes it was unavoidable, frequently it was done on the understanding that someone involved (not necessarily the chair) would feedback to the missing party.

It was never borne out of secrecy or malice though, and I don't think the supporters involved in those meetings would stand for it either.

When Sect 43 were meeting with the club regarding Hampden displays, were every Hibs group represented?

Yes, I agree, sometimes its hard to get all "stakeholders" round the table. C'mon tho', we're talking Hibernian FC here..... invite representatives from .net and the bounce, and you probably got the majority right there.
:wink:
In most organisations, the chair is rotated. It stops the same people controlling things. Things can otherwise get into a rut.

This run o' the mill fan is gutted, because big Hibbys, and I mean really good Hibs people who want the best for our club are being fractious as ****, and (imho) it gives certain folks behind the scenes at ER a bit of a breather if you like.

me? as alluded in an earlier post on the thread..... do these guys have any MONEY:confused:


...because Hibernian FC certainly need a shot in the arm. If these guys dont have the money, well....

Why can't our OWNER speak in public?. Why can't he come on, as owner and publicly advise even some broad criteria for the sale of Hibernian. STF cannae be holding out for cash, he's about £150,000,000 in the black. (ah ken- naive nonsense from me!)

jacomo
15-10-2014, 12:41 PM
I have a lot of misgivings about the actions of this group to date, and these minutes frankly suggest they are not a group with any real substance ...and their hibileaks activity has so far looked embarrassing...

That said, I love their mission statement "To support Hibernian Football Club, it's players and it's manager 100%".....

How many of us can honestly say we are doing that as well as we possibly can in this time of need....

The Hibileaks stuff which was anonymous and not signed by anybody. Hardly transparent?

RIP
15-10-2014, 01:18 PM
Appreciate your direct response. As for the others...

FWIW, I don't believe meetings were held without inviting groups to increase suspicion/secrecy, my point was that groups have been left out, with some having to contact Hibs for inclusion.

Any more details you can share bud? Is this recent? The old 'Divide and Rule' tactic? :grr:

Keith_M
15-10-2014, 02:18 PM
Yes, I agree, sometimes its hard to get all "stakeholders" round the table. C'mon tho', we're talking Hibernian FC here..... invite representatives from .net and the bounce, and you probably got the majority right there.



Naw, leave out the invite to The Bounce, it'll be fun to p1ss them off even more than they are already


:wink:

Beefster
15-10-2014, 05:06 PM
Aye but you're our tosser Matty :greengrin

That sentence is wrong on so many levels, JB.

matty_f
15-10-2014, 05:30 PM
That sentence is wrong on so many levels, JB.

:hilarious

True. Very, very true.

Jonnyboy
15-10-2014, 06:50 PM
That sentence is wrong on so many levels, JB.


:hilarious

True. Very, very true.

Tossers :greengrin

AndyM_1875
15-10-2014, 08:36 PM
The Hibileaks stuff which was anonymous and not signed by anybody. Hardly transparent?

The Hibileaks stuff is embarrassing and pretty easily debunkable .
Much of it is the stuff Simon Pia has been saying for years. I like Simon but he has major personal issues with Tom Farmer going back to his Scotsman days. There's an axe being ground there.

southsider
15-10-2014, 08:57 PM
The Hibileaks stuff is embarrassing and pretty easily debunkable .
Much of it is the stuff Simon Pia has been saying for years. I like Simon but he has major personal issues with Tom Farmer going back to his Scotsman days. There's an axe being ground there.
I remember going back when STF took over at the shareholders meetings Simon and a guy with an Italian sounding surname (who claims to be STf's cousin) warned us about STF and not trust him. He got a hard time and i think gave up.

AndyM_1875
15-10-2014, 09:07 PM
Simon still bangs on that there was another rescue bid waiting behind Sir Tom, that he is far from the saviour many fans paint him as.
I think its simpler than that, the two men don't like each other. During his Scotsman days Simon Pia was sniffing around Farmers business with the land out at Straiton that Sir Tom either owned or had an interest in and was told to back off by lawyers.

southsider
15-10-2014, 09:39 PM
You are close to the truth heregieg. STF owns huge amounts of Green Belt land out at Straiton. The original plan was to move us out there and sell of ER to pay for re-location. However EDC gave STF the green light to develope Straiton without moving the Football Club. Green belt land in those days could be bought for a song as planning permission was NEVER (now LOL) going to be given to change from farmland, which was sacrosanct, to retail parks. He has made tens of millions from this. With STF every pound is a prisoner. All this Andrew Carnaggie stuff is wishful thinking

Mikey
15-10-2014, 09:43 PM
You are close to the truth heregieg. STF owns huge amounts of Green Belt land out at Straiton. The original plan was to move us out there and sell of ER to pay for re-location. However EDC gave STF the green light to develope Straiton without moving the Football Club. Green belt land in those days could be bought for a song as planning permission was NEVER (now LOL) going to be given to change from farmland, which was sacrosanct, to retail parks. He has made tens of millions from this. With STF every pound is a prisoner. All this Andrew Carnaggie stuff is wishful thinking

How did he manage to blag his way to the Andrew Carnegie Medal award then :dunno:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4139514.stm

Purple & Green
15-10-2014, 09:54 PM
however edc

mdc?

TrinityHibs
16-10-2014, 08:13 AM
mdc?

lrc?

Purple & Green
18-10-2014, 08:30 AM
lrc?

That sounds right