What Leeann should get Alan for Christmas

[Dan Sarf]

Match Insights is an app used by the German World Cup Winners which uses eight cameras to analyse, "vast amounts of data about members of the German team and their opponents, based on their on-field performance... the team was able to reduce average possession time from 3.4 seconds in 2010 down to 1.1 seconds in 2014."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10959864/Germanys-World-Cup-tactics-shaped-by-data.html

[lucky]

Only thing is it's not available yet to buy never mind the cost. Still an interesting article

[jacomo]

Read an interesting article about Joachim Low using a stop watch during training to time how long each player has on the ball and demanding they pass it quicker. Data is fine but it's how you use it that counts.

[Scottiedog007]

Did John Collins not have something similar with cameras in use at Easter road which tracked the movements of both sets of players allowing him to see areas of weakness at H/T I think liverpool had similar system installed or was I just dreaming !!!

[Keith_M]

Read an interesting article about Joachim Low using a stop watch during training to time how long each player has on the ball and demanding they pass it quicker. Data is fine but it's how you use it that counts.



I feel I have to correct you on that.







It's written either Löw or Loew....... never Low.

:wink:

[Persevere80]

Yes, that rings a bell. He then handed out the DVD's at the end of the game for them to watch back.

[--------]

Quite seriously, this is what successful coaches have been doing for a long time now.

Sophie's not quite on the ball when she mentions Lehmann and the 2006 WC. The 'crumpled piece of paper' she refers to was a list of the likely Argentina penalty-takers giving him details of exactly how each one took a penalty in a shoot-out.

Andreas Köpke, the German goalkeepers' coach, had access to a database of 13,000 kicks, so it wasn't in any sense complete, but two of the penalty-takers on the night, Ayala and Rodriquez, were on the list.

Köpke had told Lehmann that Ayala would wait a long time, take a long run-up and and shoot low to Lehmann's right. He did exactly that, and Lehmann saved.

Rodriqez was listed as always going left. He did, and Lehmann went the right way, but the penalty was well-struck and just inside the foot of the post, and Rodriquez scored.

Cambiasso took the decisive penalty of Argentina. Lehmann didn't have him on the list. So he took out the 'crumpled piece of paper', studied it intently until the referee told him to stop 'time-wasting' and get on his line, then jigged about as if he knew exactly what Cambiasso was about to do, and Cambiasso fluffed his kick. Germany win 4-2. Not a fluke, and not unlucky. Good organisation.

So now Germany and anyone else who wants to be successful gets the computer geeks on their side and starts compiling a database or databases about anyone and everyone they're likely to come up against in the sourse of a season.

Last night, Neuer would have known exactly where each Argentina player would be likely put his spot-kick in the event of a penalty shoot-out. And remember, all but one or maybe two of those players won't have been used to taking penalties - they would only do so in a shoot-out. So their over-riding inclination is to practice putting the ball accurately in one place every time; if they change their plan at the last minute, or become nervous about hown much the goalie knows, they're sunk.

The reference is "Why England lose" by Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski , page 150. A very interesting book.

[--------]

I feel I have to correct you on that.







It's written either Löw or Loew....... never Low.

:wink:


:top marks

[ballengeich]

. the team was able to reduce average possession time from 3.4 seconds in 2010 down to 1.1 seconds in 2014."



In 2014 Hibs' average possession time was 0.3 seconds.

[jacomo]

I feel I have to correct you on that.







It's written either Löw or Loew....... never Low.

:wink:

Fair enough. I love a bit of German grammar pedantry, so please excuse my mistake.

Good ol' Wackeem Lurrrve. :wink:

[Haymaker]

There is already a system called Pro Zone that has 8 cameras recording everything from positioning, time on the ball to heat maps. We probably have it installed.

As someone already said, it's not the information, it is what you do with it.

[greenlex]

There is already a system called Pro Zone that has 8 cameras recording everything from positioning, time on the ball to heat maps. We probably have it installed.

As someone already said, it's not the information, it is what you do with it. We do. I remember Yogi had, in the past, quoted Pro Zone stats to justify things. Two people have already mentioned its what you do with them that counts.

[lapsedhibee]

Cambiasso took the decisive penalty of Argentina. Lehmann didn't have him on the list. So he took out the 'crumpled piece of paper', studied it intently until the referee told him to stop 'time-wasting' and get on his line, then jigged about as if he knew exactly what Cambiasso was about to do, and Cambiasso fluffed his kick.

:agree: It's not the crumpled piece of paper - it's what you do with it that counts.

[Haymaker]

We do. I remember Yogi had, in the past, quoted Pro Zone stats to justify things. Two people have already mentioned its what you do with them that counts.

I thought we had but couldnt remember for sure.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

The sack :greengrin

[--------]

:agree: It's not the crumpled piece of paper - it's what you do with it that counts.

And it doesn't seem to have occurred to the lady reporter (bless her) that whatever Lehmann had written down on that paper had to have come from somehwere. It came from Andreas Köpke's database which was snugly tucked away on the hard drive of his computer.

I don't think the ref would have allowed Lehmann to have a computer terminal behind the goal where he could look each Argentina penalty-taker up on the database before each kick. Köpke obviously checked his computer, wrote down what he found there that he reckoned would be useful to Lehmann - on a piece of paper, which Lehmann then tucked in his stocking to be referred to as needed. By the time Cambiasso came along (poor chap) the paper was crumpled indeed , but every Argentina player had seen Lehmann looking at it and was wondering what he had written down there that was helping him guess soi accurately which way they were putting their penalties. Mind games.

Maybe the Germans should have put up a big screen and done a PowerPoint presentation before the shoot-out?

According to Kuper and Szymanski, Cheslea tried the same dodge against Man Utd in the Champions' League Final in Moscow, but they came unstuck because Man Utd figured out what they were up to and Van der Sar psyched Anelka into changing his mind about where to put the ball at the last minute and saved the crucial penalty. You can see it on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWbkbwDUr4 (Watch his left hand as Anelka prepares to take the kick - about 3.50 in.)

Ferguson then claimed in the post-match that he and the United coaches had "known where every one of the Chelsea penalties was going" before the ball was kicked.

More mind-games with future shoot-outs in mind. :devil:

So computer databases aren't foolproof, but they don't half help if you know what you're doing with them.

And they ain't exactly new on the block.

[--------]

There is already a system called Pro Zone that has 8 cameras recording everything from positioning, time on the ball to heat maps. We probably have it installed.

As someone already said, it's not the information, it is what you do with it.


Well, if we do, we should be using it.

If we don't we should get it immediately.

And we should be making sure that Alan Stubbs is aware of it and using it.

If The Bloody Butcher had been using it (supposing him capable of understanding what exactly it was and what it did) we might still be in the Premiership.

[Iggy Pope]

Fair enough. I love a bit of German grammar pedantry, so please excuse my mistake.

Good ol' Wackeem Lurrrve. :wink:

You'd think more cameras would be the last thing he needed after getting caught live by a worldwide audience picking his nose.

And eating it.

[Deansy]

Read an interesting article about Joachim Low using a stop watch during training to time how long each player has on the ball and demanding they pass it quicker. Data is fine but it's how you use it that counts.

Heard that being discussed on the TV as one of the things Loew had brought to the team - when he first took over their average time on the ball was (??) seconds and he'd reduced it to (??) seconds now. Sound similar to the training/tactics that the Liverpool teams of the 70'/80's practised sort of 'Two-touch' football. Unfortunately for us, that tactic requires players to be able to control a ball and most of our players tend to be Scottish !!