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View Full Version : Butcher receives an apology (Ally Ross)



21.05.2016
05-04-2014, 01:15 PM
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/officials-apologise-to-butcher-for-offside-blunder-1-3366136?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Too little too ****ing late. Once again we get shafted by utterly incompetent officials in a derby. Ridiculous.

mutley
05-04-2014, 01:45 PM
I read that this morning, utterly worthless unless they are going to adjust the score and points retrospectively, which will never happen

Smartie
05-04-2014, 01:47 PM
Nah, I'm with Butcher on this one.

I think it's huge progress for officials to admit to their mistakes and apologise. It was clearly a poor decision but these offsides (when 2 players are running in opposite directions) can be difficult to call at the time and only look very easy when you get the chance to see it in slow motion repeat several times. Officials are only human and make human mistakes. There's nothing more they can do about it after the event.

I'd like to think that by acting in a dignified manner like in this situation would have a positive impact on the ways referees may behave than getting their backs up by bitching and moaning at them and about them. Which is what I think has happened with Craig Thomson.

That said, these things are meant to even themselves out. With Hearts about to disappear into oblivion for a while it'll be about another 50 years before even the decisions of the past 3 years have evened themselves out.

21.05.2016
05-04-2014, 01:51 PM
After all these years im still waiting for things to "even themselves out". Always seems to be us that the big decisions go against in derbies.

Thecat23
05-04-2014, 01:56 PM
I'm happy the officials have admitted it and not done the usual and blanked all questions asked. Yes it's to late but if they can. Recognize their mistakes it may make them better for future games.

Onion
05-04-2014, 01:57 PM
Sorry, but an apology for this latest decision does not to really help and in fact suggests that the string of terrible decisions we've had in recent Derbies have somehow been OK. It also implies that this is an isolated case :roll eyes:

Did we receive similar apologies for the string of post-match red cards the Yams have had in recent Derbies ?
Did we get an apology for the Griffith FK which was at least 4 feet over the line ?

These also affected the outcome of the game.

Finally, the apology should have gone to Hibs and Hibs fans, not Butcher.

Saorsa
05-04-2014, 02:07 PM
Trying tae take the heat off for another 'appalling decision' :rolleyes: against us in another derby.

Wotherspiniesta
05-04-2014, 02:08 PM
Let's see...

David Templeton's assault on McPake at ER

Ryan Stevenson's assault on McPake at Tynie

Black's elbow to Griffiths at Hampden

Suso being fouled outside the box at Hampden

Griffiths brilliant free kick 2 yards over the line at ER

Forster header 5 yards onside at Tynie

You're ****ing right you're sorry.

(thats just the last few years aswell btw)

21.05.2016
05-04-2014, 02:26 PM
Let's see...

David Templeton's assault on McPake at ER

Ryan Stevenson's assault on McPake at Tynie

Black's elbow to Griffiths at Hampden

Suso being fouled outside the box at Hampden

Griffiths brilliant free kick 2 yards over the line at ER

Forster header 5 yards onside at Tynie

You're ****ing right you're sorry.

(thats just the last few years aswell btw)


Shocking. It's an absolute joke that we are shafted by these jokers in the derby time after time after time. There wasn't even a decision to be made for the Sparky free kick or the Forster goal or the penalty in the final - they were so blatantly clear!

Yes it was a nice gesture by the officials to contact Butcher but yet again their unbelievable incompetance cost us. I agree, they are only human beings and make mistakes just like everybody else but it happens nearly EVERY derby that these huge game changing decisions go against us. Forsters goal came during one of our most dominant spells in the match so if it had stood who knows what could have happened.

Ronniekirk
05-04-2014, 02:39 PM
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/officials-apologise-to-butcher-for-offside-blunder-1-3366136?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Too little too ****ing late. Once again we get shafted by utterly incompetent officials in a derby. Ridiculous.

I am not going to even read it it was an appalling decision with no mitigating circumstances .it shouldn't of happened as he was looking right at it he couldn't of missed that just can't see how that was possible

emerald green
05-04-2014, 02:39 PM
After all these years im still waiting for things to "even themselves out". Always seems to be us that the big decisions go against in derbies.

It's ALWAYS been like this mate. As long as I can remember. I just don't think it's realistic, or believable, to put these awful incorrect decisions against Hibs simply down to human error all the time.

Onion
05-04-2014, 02:42 PM
Let's see...

David Templeton's assault on McPake at ER

Ryan Stevenson's assault on McPake at Tynie

Black's elbow to Griffiths at Hampden

Suso being fouled outside the box at Hampden

Griffiths brilliant free kick 2 yards over the line at ER

Forster header 5 yards onside at Tynie

You're ****ing right you're sorry.

(thats just the last few years aswell btw)

It's a List of Shame.

What this doesn't show is the long term effect this has on Hibs/Hearts teams going into Derby matches. The Yams must feel virtually untouchable when they step onto the pitch and they can almost guarantee one or two key decisions to go their way. That's like a 12th man to them. The opposite is the case for Hibs players, thinking they've got to overcome the officials as well as the 11 Yams.

SunshineOnLeith
05-04-2014, 02:43 PM
Some Celtc-esque paranoia in this thread.

If the official has held his hands up and apologised, good on him. Mistakes happen, even glaringly awful ones.

TRC
05-04-2014, 02:47 PM
Its sumgness on the part of refs to come out and say sorry. 'yeah yeah sorry' anything going to happen no is he going to be banned or docked wages no away and shove your sorry

Onion
05-04-2014, 02:48 PM
Some Celtc-esque paranoia in this thread.

If the official has held his hands up and apologised, good on him. Mistakes happen, even glaringly awful ones.

Totally unfair. What we're complaining about is why apologise for this one decision when there have been so many (acknowledged) mistakes by officials. 3 deferred red cards confirms these were wrong decisions. The LG FK was as bad a linesman decision as you'll get.

Apologising for this one is just more inconsistency ... ironic.

Nando™
05-04-2014, 03:00 PM
How difficult is it to put another official in a box somewhere in the stadium with radio contact to the referee and a tv to watch replays?

hibee62
05-04-2014, 04:03 PM
Let's see...

David Templeton's assault on McPake at ER

Ryan Stevenson's assault on McPake at Tynie

Black's elbow to Griffiths at Hampden

Suso being fouled outside the box at Hampden

Griffiths brilliant free kick 2 yards over the line at ER

Forster header 5 yards onside at Tynie

You're ****ing right you're sorry.

(thats just the last few years aswell btw)

The new year derby 2012, their first goal was well offside and McGowan got a retrospective red for a headbutt on Sproule.

Sir David Gray
05-04-2014, 04:38 PM
Let's see...

David Templeton's assault on McPake at ER

Ryan Stevenson's assault on McPake at Tynie

Black's elbow to Griffiths at Hampden

Suso being fouled outside the box at Hampden

Griffiths brilliant free kick 2 yards over the line at ER

Forster header 5 yards onside at Tynie

You're ****ing right you're sorry.

(thats just the last few years aswell btw)


Going back further, let's not forget the Grant Brebner red card which never was.

Although the end outcome was ok! :greengrin

Wotherspiniesta
05-04-2014, 04:50 PM
The new year derby 2012, their first goal was well offside and McGowan got a retrospective red for a headbutt on Sproule.

Almost forgot about that.

What about the Penalty on Riordan at ER not long after he came back which was never given

And Zaliukas trying to swap shirts with Rob Jones at every set piece just after we won the cup.

Thats ok though, because they're sorry now.

21.05.2016
05-04-2014, 04:54 PM
The list of unbelievable decisions against us in derbies is truly astonishing. Can we flip this though and try think of big deccisions that have gone against hearts in derbies (be honest) so we can compare. I certainly off the top of my head can't think of a decision thats been as big as the sparky free kick or the Forster goal.

Biggie
05-04-2014, 04:54 PM
Must have read that wrong !.....a text message ?!!...a ****ing text ?.....did he not have the balls to phone him ?

Billy Whizz
05-04-2014, 04:56 PM
Going back further, let's not forget the Grant Brebner red card which never was.

Although the end outcome was ok! :greengrin

Did Gordon not get Dean Sheils sent off by cheating at Tynie in one game, trying to remember the incident

Wotherspiniesta
05-04-2014, 05:03 PM
The list of unbelievable decisions against us in derbies is truly astonishing. Can we flip this though and try think of big deccisions that have gone against hearts in derbies (be honest) so we can compare. I certainly off the top of my head can't think of a decision thats been as big as the sparky free kick or the Forster goal.

They could argue that Murray should have been sent off for re-arranging Rudiolf's eye socket at Tynie. Personally, I thought it was a shocking decision.

To not book him for diving.

Mikey
05-04-2014, 05:16 PM
I see he had this week off........

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/SPFL/39.%20SPFL%20Appointments%20Friday%204th%20-%20Monday%207th%20April%202014.pdf

Don't expect to see him next week either.

clerriehibs
05-04-2014, 05:20 PM
Some Celtc-esque paranoia in this thread.

If the official has held his hands up and apologised, good on him. Mistakes happen, even glaringly awful ones.

A hell of an apology, eh? A *****y wee text to Butcher. Big ups for the cheating linesman.

The cheat couldn't do it by voice, in person, or to a wider, Hibby, audience. The guy's a scrote, and his *****y wee text apology doesn't change that one iota.

Phil D. Rolls
05-04-2014, 05:22 PM
Fair play, mistakes happen, and its much better they apologise than try to lie their way out of it.

Have they apologised to Hearts as well?

clerriehibs
05-04-2014, 05:23 PM
Did Gordon not get Dean Sheils sent off by cheating at Tynie in one game, trying to remember the incident

Shiels scored a penalty, ran to retrieve the ball, spotty shielded it, Deano ran into him, spotty died, paramedics were on the field with a defibrillator, then called in a helicopter, rushed to hospital, signed off as D.O.A., miraculously woke up in the morgue, slow taxi back to the match, and he finished the match just fine.

Phil D. Rolls
05-04-2014, 05:24 PM
A hell of an apology, eh? A *****y wee text to Butcher. Big ups for the cheating linesman.

The cheat couldn't do it by voice, in person, or to a wider, Hibby, audience. The guy's a scrote, and his *****y wee text apology doesn't change that one iota.

Cant think what he'd have to fear by doing it face to face.

Islington Hibs
05-04-2014, 06:26 PM
I think it is pretty unprecedented for a referee to apologise for a mistake so well done for being man enough to do so.

That said the breaks against us are well beyond a joke, particularly against them, with two inexplicable errors with clear goals disallowed.

21.05.2016
05-04-2014, 06:37 PM
The Sparky free kick decision in particular was absolutely inexcusable. It was a set play, therefore the linesman specifically gets into the right position to see these things. I could have understood slightly more if hibs had broke quickly from a play up the other end and the linesman was rushing to get back but to miss something that blatently obvious when you are set up in the right position is absolutely criminal. I still find it astonishing that he never thought it was over the line.

He either never saw it or set himself up properly = incompetant or he DID see it and decided not to give it = cheating. I personally just think it was down to incompetance but either way its an absolute shocker and his status as a top flight official should be questioned. I know human error and all that, and I understand that but that was absolutely ridiculous.

Islington Hibs
05-04-2014, 06:41 PM
The Sparky free kick decision in particular was absolutely inexcusable. It was a set play, therefore the linesman specifically gets into the right position to see these things. I could have understood slightly more if hibs had broke quickly from a play up the other end and the linesman was rushing to get back but to miss something that blatently obvious when you are set up in the right position is absolutely criminal. I still find it astonishing that he never thought it was over the line.

He either never saw it or set himself up properly = incompetant or he DID see it and decided not to give it = cheating. I personally just think it was down to incompetance but either way its an absolute shocker and his status as a top flight official should be questioned. I know human error and all that, and I understand that but that was absolutely ridiculous.


I don't disagree. Both were very very poor decisions which have cost us dearly and pretty inexplicable. I tend towards the view of incompetence rather than intent.

hibbymick
05-04-2014, 06:41 PM
Just noticed he also ran the line for the 1-5 final . :cb

emerald green
05-04-2014, 06:43 PM
Some Celtc-esque paranoia in this thread.

If the official has held his hands up and apologised, good on him. Mistakes happen, even glaringly awful ones.

Sorry mate, I disagree this is paranoia. Yes, mistakes happen, now and again. But the evidence here is absolutely overwhelming. Something stinks IMO.

JimBHibees
05-04-2014, 06:43 PM
Must have read that wrong !.....a text message ?!!...a ****ing text ?.....did he not have the balls to phone him ?

Completely agree wtf is that about. Meaningless disrespectful pish IMO.

Billy Whizz
05-04-2014, 06:45 PM
Just noticed he also ran the line for the 1-5 final . :cb

What side, south stand side or Kujabi's in the 2nd half?

leggeto
05-04-2014, 06:52 PM
Al least he admitted he got it wrong so its a start,maybe other officials could take note

hibbymick
05-04-2014, 06:53 PM
What side, south stand side or Kujabi's in the 2nd half?

Im no sure but my columbo instincts are kicking in :greengrin

brog
05-04-2014, 06:56 PM
Some Celtc-esque paranoia in this thread.

If the official has held his hands up and apologised, good on him. Mistakes happen, even glaringly awful ones.

Not really, if these errors had happened agains either Celtc or Newco there would have been carnage. We've been remarkably restrained, too restrained IMO.

Mikey
05-04-2014, 08:25 PM
Not really, if these errors had happened agains either Celtc or Newco there would have been carnage. We've been remarkably restrained, too restrained IMO.

The club never makes a fuss about these things.

21.05.2016
05-04-2014, 08:29 PM
The club never makes a fuss about these things.

Well IMO its about time we started to tbh. It's not just the odd one here and there, it seems to be a very regular occurrence in derbies and its big, game changing decisions. Im not saying we turn into the likes of celtic and start shouting conspiracy after every decision that doesn't go our way but when in just about every derby we are getting shafted by these huge decision something needs to be brought up.

clerriehibs
05-04-2014, 08:30 PM
Al least he admitted he got it wrong so its a start,maybe other officials could take note


I take it you bought Maria Miller's (Con, Basingstoke) apology to the House, then?

SunshineOnLeith
05-04-2014, 08:34 PM
So, there's a bias against Hibs/in favour of Hearts within the SFA? Why?

Our chairman is one of the blazers-in-chief, so is he complicit in this conspiracy as well?

Mistakes by officials happen, we just notice and remember the ones which hurt Hibs more than others because we're Hibs fans.

clerriehibs
05-04-2014, 08:49 PM
So, there's a bias against Hibs/in favour of Hearts within the SFA? Why?

Our chairman is one of the blazers-in-chief, so is he complicit in this conspiracy as well?

Mistakes by officials happen, we just notice and remember the ones which hurt Hibs more than others because we're Hibs fans.


Who said the SFA?

emerald green
05-04-2014, 08:55 PM
So, there's a bias against Hibs/in favour of Hearts within the SFA? Why?

Our chairman is one of the blazers-in-chief, so is he complicit in this conspiracy as well?

Mistakes by officials happen, we just notice and remember the ones which hurt Hibs more than others because we're Hibs fans.

It's not the SFA that makes these "mistakes". Petrie wouldn't say boo to a goose anyway. The "mistakes" just seem to me to happen far too often against our club. I wonder why?

SunshineOnLeith
05-04-2014, 10:21 PM
Who said the SFA?

If not the SFA, who? The Secret Order of Referees?

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2014, 10:24 PM
The club never makes a fuss about these things.

About time they started. It works - look at earlier in the season when TB mentioned in a couple of interviews that he couldn't believe Hibs hadn't had a pen all season. 2 in 2 games.

clerriehibs
05-04-2014, 10:28 PM
If not the SFA, who? The Secret Order of Referees?


What's "The Secret Order of Referees?"


But sarcasm aside, why do you find it so unbelievable that a number of individuals, and it only needs to be a handful, are quite happy favouring one team over another, comfortable in the knowledge they won't have to publicly answer for their decisions?

SunshineOnLeith
05-04-2014, 10:28 PM
It's not the SFA that makes these "mistakes". Petrie wouldn't say boo to a goose anyway. The "mistakes" just seem to me to happen far too often against our club. I wonder why?

Again, we only notice the ones against Hibs because we mainly watch Hibs matches and only care about Hibs. Derek Adams has moaned about Ross County not getting decisions this week, is there a conspiracy against them as well?

clerriehibs
05-04-2014, 10:33 PM
Again, we only notice the ones against Hibs because we mainly watch Hibs matches and only care about Hibs. Derek Adams has moaned about Ross County not getting decisions this week, is there a conspiracy against them as well?


We're talking a 5 yard onside goal being given offside.

We're talking a 2 yards over the line set piece goal not being given.

We're talking multiple red-cards not being given in derbies, and being given post-match.

We're talking match-changing cards not being given to black in a Scottish cup final.

We're talking a 5 yards outside the box foul being given as a penalty in a Scottish cup final.

And then there's a whole load of decisions against us, possibly more in the same ball park as Adams is complaining about.

SunshineOnLeith
05-04-2014, 10:35 PM
What's "The Secret Order of Referees?"


But sarcasm aside, why do you find it so unbelievable that a number of individuals, and it only needs to be a handful, are quite happy favouring one team over another, comfortable in the knowledge they won't have to publicly answer for their decisions?

Because I can't think of one possible reason why they'd want to. What's their motive/what's in it for them?

Although not as obvious, Hearts had an offside call go against them in the derby as well which would likely have resulted in a goal.

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2014, 10:39 PM
Because I can't think of one possible reason why they'd want to. What's their motive/what's in it for them?

Although not as obvious, Hearts had an offside call go against them in the derby as well which would likely have resulted in a goal.

Think the "not as obvious" is the key line on your post. We've had 3 obvious blatant "mistakes" in 3 years v them. You couldn't get them wrong if you're even close to being competent.

leggeto
05-04-2014, 10:56 PM
I take it you bought Maria Miller's (Con, Basingstoke) apology to the House, then?

not sure about that but do the officials have a professional full time contract in the EPL so they have to explain their decision

Speedy
05-04-2014, 11:32 PM
Unless anyone has a time machine then the best he can do is apologise and learn from it.

I think it's a step in the right direction.

0762
06-04-2014, 12:44 AM
Lets be honest. The Asst Referee (or Linesman to you and me) made a howler. He'll have been pulled up by the head of refereeing and "marked down" - it wont make a blind bit of difference. He'll get a "chat", sat down and be made to watch the video until his eyes start to bleed and he and his boss look at each other until the Head of Refereeing says, "We better say sorry to Big Tel or it will be embarrassing for us both when we see him. Now you run along and don't worry I'll have you back in the Premiership before anyone notices". Aren't Scottish Officials wonderful? They put their hand up when they get it wrong...............personally I'd just wish they would get the glaring obvious ones like this right. Marginal decisions you can understand but this was a shocker.

Geo_1875
06-04-2014, 03:12 AM
Al least he admitted he got it wrong so its a start,maybe other officials could take note

TV evidence is damming. He's been embarrassed into apologising.

mim
06-04-2014, 09:28 AM
The linesman's position was wrong. He wasn't in line with the last defender, which suggests he wasn't aware of the Hearts player lying on the ground. I think he was primed to flag before he became aware of the Hearts player on his way back out. Even if I'm right, there is no excuse for not letting the ref know at the time that he had got it wrong. There is also little excuse for the ref not being aware of the defender and overruling the linesman.

Mikey
06-04-2014, 09:36 AM
The linesman's position was wrong. He wasn't in line with the last defender, which suggests he wasn't aware of the Hearts player lying on the ground. I think he was primed to flag before he became aware of the Hearts player on his way back out. Even if I'm right, there is no excuse for not letting the ref know at the time that he had got it wrong. There is also little excuse for the ref not being aware of the defender and overruling the linesman.

This is what I heard.........


He admitted he cocked it up, he said he hadn't seen the Hearts player who was down as he was keeping up with the rest of the play. Said the ref shouted "man down" into his earpiece and he was looking to see who it was as it was all happening. Said he was convinced it was offside and couldn't believe it when he saw the playback.

So you can assume that the ref was aware but didn't overrule.

Phil D. Rolls
06-04-2014, 10:00 AM
This is what I heard.........



So you can assume that the ref was aware but didn't overrule.

So the ref has let the linesman know that there's a player on the ground. Linesman flags, because he can't see the man. Ref says, "what happened to the man on the ground". Linesman says, "er......". Because the linesman can't confirm said mans whereabouts, they have to assume he was in line with the rest of the players.

Then the man down is carried off on a stretcher, but they can't change their decision. Strong argument for officials behind the goals, or TV evidence, IMO.

Weststandwanab
06-04-2014, 10:10 AM
Who said the SFA? It will get the sub committee made up of OF sympathisers.


Again, we only notice the ones against Hibs because we mainly watch Hibs matches and only care about Hibs. Derek Adams has moaned about Ross County not getting decisions this week, is there a conspiracy against them as well? No just shows the appalling standard of referring in this country.

emerald green
06-04-2014, 10:42 AM
Again, we only notice the ones against Hibs because we mainly watch Hibs matches and only care about Hibs. Derek Adams has moaned about Ross County not getting decisions this week, is there a conspiracy against them as well?

Who said there was a conspiracy? As I see it, here's what I think about these seemingly inexplicable decisions which have been going on against our club for as far back as I can remember - quite a while. Firstly, yes people are human and make mistakes. I accept that. However if I, or anyone else for that matter, made as many very serious mistakes at work as happens with some of these officials I would be "oot the door". Nothing happens with these guys. It just goes on and on. A text message apology is better than it used to be, but too little too late IMO. We do need to work smarter and at least consider the use of modern technology to explore if there are ways of eliminating, or at least reducing, these crucial errors. Secondly, I think there is a deep seated societal and establishment prejudice against certain clubs in this country, with certain other clubs being the establishment favourites. Hibs are not one of the favourites, that's for sure. Referees and linesmen are not immune from this, having lived in this country all their lives. Whether deliberate or not (it's impossible to prove) some officials, whether we like it or not, will be biased towards one club or another and this might be reflected in some of their decisions. I would suggest it may now be time to consider using referees from England, Wales, Ireland, or from Europe to officiate at certain high profile matches such as Hibs v Hearts. My suggestions will not stop mistakes from happening completely, but it may reduce and/or rectify the number of incorrect decisions being made, help ensure fairness to both teams, and help eliminate the conspiracy theories.

Zondervan
06-04-2014, 10:48 AM
So the ref has let the linesman know that there's a player on the ground. Linesman flags, because he can't see the man. Ref says, "what happened to the man on the ground". Linesman says, "er......". Because the linesman can't confirm said mans whereabouts, they have to assume he was in line with the rest of the players.

Then the man down is carried off on a stretcher, but they can't change their decision. Strong argument for officials behind the goals, or TV evidence, IMO.

What's this about "man down" and "carried off on a stretcher"?

I have not watched replays and have only seen the still picture of the last defender playing Forster onside.

Help me out here!

Phil D. Rolls
06-04-2014, 10:53 AM
What's this about "man down" and "carried off on a stretcher"?

I have not watched replays and have only seen the still picture of the last defender playing Forster onside.

Help me out here!

Sorry, nobody was carried off on a stretcher - but the officials are probably incompetent enough to miss someone in that predicament.