PDA

View Full Version : Question for Hibs Historians



worcesterhibby
11-01-2014, 11:35 PM
I was looking at a very interesting programme that's for sale on ebay that is from a 1949 match between Edinburgh Select and Wolves. Will seem strange to modern football fans but I believe Hibs and hearts players played together regularly in Edinburgh Select matches against top English sides in charity matches. No doubt fans of both sides stood side by side and cheered together to watch their heroes play. A different Era.

However my question is..what shirts did the Edinburgh Select side wear ? On the Programme in question there is a cartoon picture of a player in a Wolves jersey and a hibs jersey, but surely hearts players didn't don Hibs shirts for the match ??

any of the old guard enlighten me ?

STRAIGHT 2 HELL
11-01-2014, 11:38 PM
If the match was played at Easter rd they wore Hibs strips and vice versa

mim
11-01-2014, 11:40 PM
I was looking at a very interesting programme that's for sale on ebay that is from a 1949 match between Edinburgh Select and Wolves. Will seem strange to modern football fans but I believe Hibs and hearts players played together regularly in Edinburgh Select matches against top English sides in charity matches. No doubt fans of both sides stood side by side and cheered together to watch their heroes play. A different Era.

However my question is..what shirts did the Edinburgh Select side wear ? On the Programme in question there is a cartoon picture of a player in a Wolves jersey and a hibs jersey, but surely hearts players didn't don Hibs shirts for the match ??

any of the old guard enlighten me ?

Hibs strip at ER, hertz strip at tynie, I think

heretoday
11-01-2014, 11:41 PM
There may be a pic on the Scots photo archive. I will check. They probably played in white. I remember a charity game in the 70s at Meadowbank involving a Hibs Hearts select. You wouldn't get that now. Too much hatred about thanks to the internet mainly I reckon.

monarch
11-01-2014, 11:55 PM
I was looking at a very interesting programme that's for sale on ebay that is from a 1949 match between Edinburgh Select and Wolves. Will seem strange to modern football fans but I believe Hibs and hearts players played together regularly in Edinburgh Select matches against top English sides in charity matches. No doubt fans of both sides stood side by side and cheered together to watch their heroes play. A different Era.

However my question is..what shirts did the Edinburgh Select side wear ? On the Programme in question there is a cartoon picture of a player in a Wolves jersey and a hibs jersey, but surely hearts players didn't don Hibs shirts for the match ??

any of the old guard enlighten me ?

Up until around the mid sixties a Hibs/Hearts select would play a pre season charity game against a top English side on alternate years, one year at ER the next at Tynecastle. If at ER the team consisted of 6 Hibees/ 5 jambos and all played in Hibs jerseys and if at Tynie the opposite would apply all in front of good crowds.. Things were much more civilised in these pre Mercer/Romanov days. If I recall Mercer did try a similar arrangement in the eighties at the PBS against Munich 1860 but the attendance was poor and wasn't a success.

PatHead
11-01-2014, 11:56 PM
There may be a pic on the Scots photo archive. I will check. They probably played in white. I remember a charity game in the 70s at Meadowbank involving a Hibs Hearts select. You wouldn't get that now. Too much hatred about thanks to the internet mainly I reckon.

Not sure if internet solely to blame, been going on since Mercer days

Waxy
12-01-2014, 09:14 AM
Was one at tynie in the 80s, wore white tops black shorts iirc.

Purple & Green
12-01-2014, 09:43 AM
There was one in the mid 80s maybe against bayern munich - seem to remember there was a token meadow bank player. White shirts and black shorts rings a bell


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Chibs
12-01-2014, 09:59 AM
There may be a pic on the Scots photo archive. I will check. They probably played in white. I remember a charity game in the 70s at Meadowbank involving a Hibs Hearts select. You wouldn't get that now. Too much hatred about thanks to the internet mainly I reckon.
My utter hatred of that bunch of ***** started a long time before the Internet was invented.

mrdependable
12-01-2014, 10:24 AM
[QUOTE=Purple & Green;3868353]There was one in the mid 80s maybe against bayern munich - seem to remember there was a token meadow bank player. White shirts and black shorts rings a bell


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)[/Q

I was at Tynecastle, I cant remember the strip but there were 6 or 7 Hearts players, 3 or 4 Hibs players and I think Darren Jackson, then at Meadowbank, played. I think the council arranged it and it was to do with Edinburgh's twinning with Munich.

CraigK
12-01-2014, 10:34 AM
[QUOTE=Purple & Green;3868353]There was one in the mid 80s maybe against bayern munich - seem to remember there was a token meadow bank player. White shirts and black shorts rings a bell


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)[/Q

I was at Tynecastle, I cant remember the strip but there were 6 or 7 Hearts players, 3 or 4 Hibs players and I think Darren Jackson, then at Meadowbank, played. I think the council arranged it and it was to do with Edinburgh's twinning with Munich.

This was the first football match that I ever attended, and the only time that i've been in the deathtrap stand at Tynecastle!
Interesting to note that, considering Hearts almost won the league the following season, there were actually more Hibs players in the starting line up!
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19850814&id=p6NAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nqUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3558,2607938

JoeTortolanoFanClub
12-01-2014, 10:40 AM
[QUOTE=Purple & Green;3868353]There was one in the mid 80s maybe against bayern munich - seem to remember there was a token meadow bank player. White shirts and black shorts rings a bell


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)[/Q

I was at Tynecastle, I cant remember the strip but there were 6 or 7 Hearts players, 3 or 4 Hibs players and I think Darren Jackson, then at Meadowbank, played. I think the council arranged it and it was to do with Edinburgh's twinning with Munich.

1985. I was there. Edinburgh Select played in white shirts and black shorts.

brog
12-01-2014, 10:50 AM
I remember a game at PBS versus Chelsea. IIRC Edinburgh Select won 6-5 & a very young Jimmy Greaves scored 4 for Chelsea. I was a huge fan of JG ever after, still probably the most natural goalscorer I've ever seen.

worcesterhibby
12-01-2014, 11:18 AM
Having dug around a bit more it does seem that in the earlier matches it was a case of Hibs strip at Easter road then hearts strip at Tyncastle the year after. Really sets things into context as to how Hibs/hearts relationship has changed for the worse over the years. Can you imagine Stevenson, Hammill, McTattie etc pulling on Hibs jerseys and playing alongside Hibs players at ER now ?

The 1940's were indeed a paradox…the people of Edinburgh were civilised enough to treat each other as equals on either side of the Hibs /hearts divide, yet the world was uncivilised enough for their to be a World War that involved the bombing of civilians by both sides, A Holocaust and the atrocity of atomic bombs. It's a strange old world.

weonlywon6-2
12-01-2014, 11:32 AM
I was looking at a very interesting programme that's for sale on ebay that is from a 1949 match between Edinburgh Select and Wolves. Will seem strange to modern football fans but I believe Hibs and hearts players played together regularly in Edinburgh Select matches against top English sides in charity matches. No doubt fans of both sides stood side by side and cheered together to watch their heroes play. A different Era.

However my question is..what shirts did the Edinburgh Select side wear ? On the Programme in question there is a cartoon picture of a player in a Wolves jersey and a hibs jersey, but surely hearts players didn't don Hibs shirts for the match ??

any of the old guard enlighten me ?


This question may identify some of our older (and wiser) members :greengrin:greengrin

mim
12-01-2014, 11:38 AM
Having dug around a bit more it does seem that in the earlier matches it was a case of Hibs strip at Easter road then hearts strip at Tyncastle the year after. Really sets things into context as to how Hibs/hearts relationship has changed for the worse over the years. Can you imagine Stevenson, Hammill, McTattie etc pulling on Hibs jerseys and playing alongside Hibs players at ER now ?

The 1940's were indeed a paradox…the people of Edinburgh were civilised enough to treat each other as equals on either side of the Hibs /hearts divide, yet the world was uncivilised enough for their to be a World War that involved the bombing of civilians by both sides, A Holocaust and the atrocity of atomic bombs. It's a strange old world.

It wasn't just in the 40s, John. There was mutual respect (and healthy rivalry) between Hibs and Hearts thru the 50s and 60s. I think segregation was the catalyst for promoting the tribalism that we have today.

heretoday
12-01-2014, 12:24 PM
In Dec 1985 a Hibs/Hearts Select played a match at Meadowbank v a Scottish Miners Junior Select in aid of the Miners Strike Relief Fund.

Dunno the score or, more importantly, the colours!

jdships
12-01-2014, 12:30 PM
Interesting thread .
In the 40's/50'sand early 60's there was an "Edinburgh Charities Week " culminating in a match " Edinburgh Select V XXXXXXXXX "
One year at PBS one year at ER .
Teams wore the home colour's and side was made up 6/5 in favour of " home team "
Not my favourite format but allowed us to see some decent English teams !!

This web site gives some info re the games .
http://www.hibsprogrammes.co.uk/easterroad.html

Some one posted " There was mutual respect (and healthy rivalry) between Hibs and Hearts " there was and it carried over to the players .
McVities coffee shop on the corner of South Charlotte Street and Princes Street was a favourite place for Hibs and Hearts players to meet of an afternoon after training
Attracted a lot of young lads looking for autographs or to even just "touch " a favourite !!

Simple pleasures - what happened ?

marinello59
12-01-2014, 12:37 PM
It wasn't just in the 40s, John. There was mutual respect (and healthy rivalry) between Hibs and Hearts thru the 50s and 60s. I think segregation was the catalyst for promoting the tribalism that we have today.

It's certainly made things worse. I'd love to see an end to it. I've said it before but having an area of the ground where families supporting either side could sit together would at least be a step towards ending enforced segregation.

lord bunberry
12-01-2014, 06:51 PM
It's certainly made things worse. I'd love to see an end to it. I've said it before but having an area of the ground where families supporting either side could sit together would at least be a step towards ending enforced segregation.

Non segregated games were before my time, why did they bring in segregation?

pacorosssco
12-01-2014, 06:59 PM
I always thought home team wore their top and shorts with away teams socks so green top white shorts spew socks at er

CentreLine
12-01-2014, 07:00 PM
Because Rangers and Celtic fans and to a much lesser extent fans of other teams could not behave in a civilised manner towards each other. Wish they had just introduced it at Parkhead and Ibrox and left the rest of the country alone. Sadly not.

Famous Fiver
12-01-2014, 07:04 PM
brog

I was at the Chelsea match too. 5-4 if I remember and as well as young Greaves the only other Chelsea players I remember were Bonetti in goals, Tambling and Blunstone. Greaves was the draw though and the place was packed. Maybe someone can come up with more details.

Hibercelona
12-01-2014, 07:06 PM
Lets be honest.

If Hibs and Hearts fans were still mixed today, there would be wars. (Hearts would obviously win, having previous at winning wars)

neilmartinrocks
12-01-2014, 07:16 PM
Don't know about the rest of you but for me the big divide came about because of wallet mercenary and his hostility towards Hibernian during his takeover bid. Also think is where the yams became deluded as to their status as "the big team". :cb

heretoday
12-01-2014, 08:43 PM
Non segregated games were before my time, why did they bring in segregation?

Well, back in the jolly old days of the 60s and 70s there were quite big battles at games. At ER the Shed end would often become a venue for clashes between Hibs fans and those of the bigger teams, including, famously, Leeds United. At Tynecastle the area under the TV cameras saw most of the action which would include the throwing of bottles and beer cans. The gang culture prominent in Edinburgh at the time added to the trouble.

The police were frequently employed as a thin line keeping two sets of fans apart and I think they just got fed up with it.

It sounds bad but somehow it was a sort of ritualised thing that didn't signify very much. I think it was Wallace Mercer's activity that really started the hatred and in my view the internet, with its safe haven for trolls and wind-up merchants, has put the icing on the cake.

jdships
12-01-2014, 09:05 PM
Don't know about the rest of you but for me the big divide came about because of wallet mercenary and his hostility towards Hibernian during his takeover bid. Also think is where the yams became deluded as to their status as "the big team". :cb

To a great extent think you are correct .
As I have said before thro' my job I was involved , allbeit on the edges , in the Mercer " Take Over" .
Some of those who were advising him realised as soon as he made the statement he had scored an " own goal" !
He spoke of/criticised " tribalism " without realising that each and everyone of us is involved in "tribalism " thro' our family , groups of friends, our pub , football team we play for /support etc etc .
It is something that started thousands of years ago and has grown just as the world has grown .
What Mercer did IMO was to create emnity between the supporters of the two clubs which has been left in place ever since

We will never ever see again supporters mixing freely on an open terracing - much is the pity !!

HIBERNIAN-0762
12-01-2014, 09:14 PM
Well, back in the jolly old days of the 60s and 70s there were quite big battles at games. At ER the Shed end would often become a venue for clashes between Hibs fans and those of the bigger teams, including, famously, Leeds United. At Tynecastle the area under the TV cameras saw most of the action which would include the throwing of bottles and beer cans. The gang culture prominent in Edinburgh at the time added to the trouble.

The police were frequently employed as a thin line keeping two sets of fans apart and I think they just got fed up with it.

It sounds bad but somehow it was a sort of ritualised thing that didn't signify very much. I think it was Wallace Mercer's activity that really started the hatred and in my view the internet, with its safe haven for trolls and wind-up merchants, has put the icing on the cake.

Spot on.

neilmartinrocks
12-01-2014, 09:41 PM
To a great extent think you are correct .
As I have said before thro' my job I was involved , allbeit on the edges , in the Mercer " Take Over" .
Some of those who were advising him realised as soon as he made the statement he had scored an " own goal" !
He spoke of/criticised " tribalism " without realising that each and everyone of us is involved in "tribalism " thro' our family , groups of friends, our pub , football team we play for /support etc etc .
It is something that started thousands of years ago and has grown just as the world has grown .
What Mercer did IMO was to create emnity between the supporters of the two clubs which has been left in place ever since

We will never ever see again supporters mixing freely on an open terracing - much is the pity !!
aye thats exactly how i seen it.
before him it was US and them after him it was US and they dirty yam *******s.
no saying there wasn't fighting before but after it got a lot worse. Love the boot being on the other foot now though :greengrin

jdships
12-01-2014, 09:46 PM
aye thats exactly how i seen it.
before him it was US and them after him it was US and they dirty yam *******s.
no saying there wasn't fighting before but after it got a lot worse. Love the boot being on the other foot now though :greengrin

:top marks:thumbsup:

weonlywon6-2
12-01-2014, 09:57 PM
Don't know about the rest of you but for me the big divide came about because of wallet mercenary and his hostility towards Hibernian during his takeover bid. Also think is where the yams became deluded as to their status as "the big team". :cb


I have followed hibs for approx 35 years and i have found in that time that some hearts fans are mini huns with all the religious stuff which i cant be bothered with, in the same time i havent met a hibs fan yet that bothers about it.

neilmartinrocks
12-01-2014, 10:15 PM
I have followed hibs for approx 35 years and i have found in that time that some hearts fans are mini huns with all the religious stuff which i cant be bothered with, in the same time i havent met a hibs fan yet that bothers about it.

Aye i've noticed that as well mate. I think it's just a recent thing last 10-15 years. Now you see them with one red glove. IIRC one poster on here thought it was a nazi salute the boy was doing but it turned out to be some loyalist pish.
Mind you we didnae stop the republican stuff till the late 70's early 80's not a lot of it but it was there.
Don't think there will ever be mixed crowds at the football again.

neilmartinrocks
12-01-2014, 10:24 PM
St johnstone have a mixed family stand at mcdiarmid park. Not always open but when it is its pretty cheap iirc

£15 for one adult and 2 kids under 12 in the Ormond Stand.
cheapest in the league. But you have to have kids with you no single adult allowed.

Mr White
12-01-2014, 10:25 PM
Don't think there will ever be mixed crowds at the football again.
st johnstone have a mixed family section at mcdiarmid. Not always open but cheap deals for accompanied kids iirc when it is.

Mr White
12-01-2014, 10:27 PM
£15 for one adult and 2 kids under 12 in the Ormond Stand.
cheapest in the league. But you have to have kids with you no single adult allowed.

:aok: sorry mucked up the quotes with my fat fingers on my phone and tried to correct it. Badly as it happens :greengrin

monktonharp
12-01-2014, 10:32 PM
It wasn't just in the 40s, John. There was mutual respect (and healthy rivalry) between Hibs and Hearts thru the 50s and 60s. I think segregation was the catalyst for promoting the tribalism that we have today. I do remember the first time I heard the word "tribalism" .It came from the mouth of a guy called Wallace Mercer.he had a novel idea, at that time, to amalgamate both Edinburgh clubs and challenge the Glasgow monopoly of Scottish football, by calling the new East Coast challengers: Heart of Midlothian. it went a bit tits up

Jim Herriot
12-01-2014, 10:37 PM
Can't find much online but the EEN used to run Setterday Sanny cartoons of a Hibby and a Jambo watching whichever team was at home.

Those days are past now...

monktonharp
12-01-2014, 10:40 PM
Aye i've noticed that as well mate. I think it's just a recent thing last 10-15 years. Now you see them with one red glove. IIRC one poster on here thought it was a nazi salute the boy was doing but it turned out to be some loyalist pish.
Mind you we didnae stop the republican stuff till the late 70's early 80's not a lot of it but it was there.
Don't think there will ever be mixed crowds at the football again.
I like a wee rebel song now and again, if I'm pished:greengrin