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Bleeds green
23-11-2013, 11:52 PM
Apologies if mentioned already but why was KT not starting?
Injured, or just thought to be not good enough? Bit gutted if the latter he's our best player imo

Sir David Gray
23-11-2013, 11:58 PM
Think it was just tactical.

Dashing Bob S
24-11-2013, 12:05 AM
Thomson's still a decent SPL player but I can't see him getting many starts under Butcher, who likes his teams to play with pace. KT slows everything down.

Hibercelona
24-11-2013, 12:14 AM
Butcher wants the game played at a higher pace. Thomson has the tendency to slow things down a bit too often.

With TB and MM calling the shots, they'll accept nothing less than 100% commitment.

I have no doubt he'll still be a big squad player for us, but like every other player, he'll just need to knuckle down and earn his place.

lucky
24-11-2013, 12:21 AM
He slows the game down too much for TB as he is surplus to requirements

B.H.F.C
24-11-2013, 12:52 AM
Think we will see a few changes in the team over the next few weeks. Butcher will want a look at different players. Thomson will get his chance at some point, the midfield wasn't exactly dominant today.

cleanyman
24-11-2013, 01:13 AM
Think we will see a few changes in the team over the next few weeks. Butcher will want a look at different players. Thomson will get his chance at some point, the midfield wasn't exactly dominant today.

he is hibernian's best player by a mile.

Robertson and Craig didn't work today, neither have the passing range of thomson

davhibby
24-11-2013, 01:16 AM
Think it's good he was left out today. He's been poor since the celtic game and hopefully that will kick him back into action. Best player we have by a mile when he can be bothered

BS44
24-11-2013, 01:25 AM
Disagreement at training during the week, or so the gossip mill goes.

JMac
24-11-2013, 01:28 AM
He doesn't fit Butchers style of play. He will get a shot in the coming weeks but expect him to be mainly be playing second fiddle to OTJ this season. I predict KT won't be here come next season.

Weir7
24-11-2013, 06:52 AM
He slows the game down too much for TB as he is surplus to requirements

Has he been put on the transfer list?

Weir7
24-11-2013, 06:57 AM
Thomson's still a decent SPL player but I can't see him getting many starts under Butcher, who likes his teams to play with pace. KT slows everything down.

Holding on to the ball until team mate shows for ball, is about retaining possession. Under fenlon there were little opptions.

The pace yesterday was launching the ball Wimbledon still. That's not pace and for me football is about effective passing with energy and pace.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 07:22 AM
He slows the game down too much for TB as he is surplus to requirements

Says who? If TB doesn't rate KT, then I would seriously start to worry about his mental health. KT is the only player on our books with ability. The rest are mediocre who can 'get by' type players. We missed KT yesterday. Abysmal decision not to start him.

hibby rae
24-11-2013, 07:28 AM
Disagreement at training during the week, or so the gossip mill goes.

The gossip mill's wrong.

hibby rae
24-11-2013, 07:30 AM
Best player at the club. Do people think he slowed the game down too much in the fast paced, attacking Mowbray team we'd like to see again?

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 07:38 AM
Best player at the club. Do people think he slowed the game down too much in the fast paced, attacking Mowbray team we'd like to see again?

It's ****ing unreal what people are saying to justify Butcher's decision today. It's worrying if people can't see how far in front of the rest of the squad he is, well the midfield inparticular. We have 40 million central midfielders, only one has the ability to play at a higher level, and has done so. The others couldn't lace KT's boots.

MWHIBBIES
24-11-2013, 07:43 AM
It's ****ing unreal what people are saying to justify Butcher's decision today. It's worrying if people can't see how far in front of the rest of the squad he is, well the midfield inparticular. We have 40 million central midfielders, only one has the ability to play at a higher level, and has done so. The others couldn't lace KT's boots.There is no justification needed, he is the manager, its his decision.

Aldo
24-11-2013, 07:45 AM
It's ****ing unreal what people are saying to justify Butcher's decision today. It's worrying if people can't see how far in front of the rest of the squad he is, well the midfield inparticular. We have 40 million central midfielders, only one has the ability to play at a higher level, and has done so. The others couldn't lace KT's boots.

Regardless of what you, I or anyone else thinks Butcher is the manager of Hibernian FC and he picks the team.

Yes KT is an excellent player and has the potential to be one of the best MF players in the league however no player should get a game because of past performances or reputation. He's been as bad in the last few games as he had been good in the games before.

No one is bigger than any team or club and that's been the problem at the club for years... Guys expecting to okay because they are who they are. They need to earn the right which means training hard and confirming to how the manager wants to set out the team.

My opinion mind

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 07:51 AM
There is no justification needed, he is the manager, its his decision.

Which after, looking at the result and midfield performance, he got wrong and deserves questioned about? IE why did our best player not start today? If the answer is he didn't train hard enough during the week etc, then fine, but tell us. Otherwise, on paper, it's a worrying start!

MWHIBBIES
24-11-2013, 07:55 AM
Which after, looking at the result and midfield performance, he got wrong and deserves questioned about? IE why did our best player not start today? If the answer is he didn't train hard enough during the week etc, then fine, but tell us. Otherwise, on paper, it's a worrying start!Our midfield wasn't actually that bad, certainly much more positive than in previous weeks which is something. Butcher doesn't have to justify any of his decisions in the press and especially not after one game which we didn't even lose. He is appointed to make decisions, if he didn't think Thomson was the right choice today then fair enough, he will have his reasons. Our goalie is our best player btw.

Saying its a worrying start is a bit embarrassing as well.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 07:57 AM
Regardless of what you, I or anyone else thinks Butcher is the manager of Hibernian FC and he picks the team.

Yes KT is an excellent player and has the potential to be one of the best MF players in the league however no player should get a game because of past performances or reputation. He's been as bad in the last few games as he had been good in the games before.

No one is bigger than any team or club and that's been the problem at the club for years... Guys expecting to okay because they are who they are. They need to earn the right which means training hard and confirming to how the manager wants to set out the team.

My opinion mind

I agree, and as I said above, if he hasn't trained hard enough etc then fine. However, he's been head and shoulders above any of the midfield so far this season and we definately missed him today. Like I said on one of the other threads on the same topic, he's the only player we have that plays a pass infront of his man to run on to. Even if the pass is simple, or seen as negative by some, it's always in front of the man to run on to and give us momentum. The rest, it's either behind them, played under their feet or hit to their thighs. That's what slows us down!

Aldo
24-11-2013, 07:57 AM
Which after, looking at the result and midfield performance, he got wrong and deserves questioned about? IE why did our best player not start today? If the answer is he didn't train hard enough during the week etc, then fine, but tell us. Otherwise, on paper, it's a worrying start!

First off I said it in my other post... Just because you think he's our best player doesn't mean to say he deserved to start every game. M59 mention the team and balance and from the line up that's exactly what TB has tried to do.

If your no happy cos he didn't play pop along to EM or ER and ask Butcher yursel. His omission from the team could be for varying reasons ones I can only speculate about.

Thecat23
24-11-2013, 08:00 AM
Which after, looking at the result and midfield performance, he got wrong and deserves questioned about? IE why did our best player not start today? If the answer is he didn't train hard enough during the week etc, then fine, but tell us. Otherwise, on paper, it's a worrying start!

Why does he need to tell us? The guy picked the team he thought was best on the day. It wasn't wrong at all as we didn't lose did we? We've lost the last 4 they had won last two. A draw stops the rot!! Some folk really need to get a grip. He's just in the door, he may well start him next sat.

Let's just wait and see before we start "questioning" Butcher!!!

Aldo
24-11-2013, 08:04 AM
I agree, and as I said above, if he hasn't trained hard enough etc then fine. However, he's been head and shoulders above any of the midfield so far this season and we definately missed him today. Like I said on one of the other threads on the same topic, he's the only player we have that plays a pass infront of his man to run on to. Even if the pass is simple, or seen as negative by some, it's always in front of the man to run on to and give us momentum. The rest, it's either behind them, played under their feet or hit to their thighs. That's what slows us down!

I disagree about the MF tbh. Scott Robertson has been our best and most consistent player /MF the season so far... High work rate and has been unlucky not to score a few more.
He had his quietest game yesterday but was probably being asked to play a slightly differing role.

KT has been relatively poor in recent weeks as has the majority of the team.

I am sure he will get his chance but as I said TB is the manager and it's his job to get the team playing.

Your comments about a poor start are way off course and are wrong. I am not expecting miracles But if you are then your in for a long hard season.

spike220
24-11-2013, 08:05 AM
It's ****ing unreal what people are saying to justify Butcher's decision today. It's worrying if people can't see how far in front of the rest of the squad he is, well the midfield in particular. We have 40 million central midfielders, only one has the ability to play at a higher level, and has done so. The others couldn't lace KT's boots. And there in lies the problem, anyone with sense of entitlement to one one of the first team shirts needs to earn that. Quality player yes, should he walk into the squad in the starting XI based on his reputation, absolutely not. KT has been coasting and I want to see more of what he has to offer. I want him to earn his place.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 08:10 AM
Our midfield wasn't actually that bad, certainly much more positive than in previous weeks which is something. Butcher doesn't have to justify any of his decisions in the press and especially not after one game which we didn't even lose. He is appointed to make decisions, if he didn't think Thomson was the right choice today then fair enough, he will have his reasons. Our goalie is our best player btw.

Saying its a worrying start is a bit embarrassing as well.

Our keeper is a good shot stopper, and pretty steady. Not very good with crosses and doesn't command his area, esp the 6 yard box. But he's not our best player. He's a goalkeeper. We've had bad luck with keepers since Leighton so anyone decent gets raved about. However, again, he's a keeper, a steady one shouldn't be hard to find.

Re the midfield today, what was impressive about them? Cairney was not fit and shouldn't of started, Tom done well when he came on, out of position, got down the line a few times, 2 or 3 decent and dangerous balls into the box. Except for one header, Craig was non existent. Robertson was as poor as he has been in the last month or so and Stevenson is Stevenson, hard worker that gives his all but has no real ability.

I don't think it is an embarrassing comment. I said the same at the game when we heard the team. They all agreed that it was a baffling decision not to play him. Maybe I'm being over critical on things as I didn't want Butcher but I'm trying to see the positives in other things like I said about TT above and about Collins on another thread. I'm just struggling to see the logic in not starting our most talented midfielder.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 08:16 AM
First off I said it in my other post... Just because you think he's our best player doesn't mean to say he deserved to start every game. M59 mention the team and balance and from the line up that's exactly what TB has tried to do.

If your no happy cos he didn't play pop along to EM or ER and ask Butcher yursel. His omission from the team could be for varying reasons ones I can only speculate about.

I agree he's got to earn the right, and said above if he didn't show it in training then fair enough. However, if he's on a level pegging in training with the rest, he should start. TB will learn that as he goes on though.

I don't need to pop along anywhere to tell him my feelings, I go to each game so can voice my concerns, if any, there, but thanks for the option, I'll keep it in mind!

Aldo
24-11-2013, 08:24 AM
Our keeper is a good shot stopper, and pretty steady. Not very good with crosses and doesn't command his area, esp the 6 yard box. But he's not our best player. He's a goalkeeper. We've had bad luck with keepers since Leighton so anyone decent gets raved about. However, again, he's a keeper, a steady one shouldn't be hard to find. Re the midfield today, what was impressive about them? Cairney was not fit and shouldn't of started, Tom done well when he came on, out of position, got down the line a few times, 2 or 3 decent and dangerous balls into the box. Except for one header, Craig was non existent. Robertson was as poor as he has been in the last month or so and Stevenson is Stevenson, hard worker that gives his all but has no real ability. I don't think it is an embarrassing comment. I said the same at the game when we heard the team. They all agreed that it was a baffling decision not to play him. Maybe I'm being over critical on things as I didn't want Butcher but I'm trying to see the positives in other things like I said about TT above and about Collins on another thread. I'm just struggling to see the logic in not starting our most talented midfielder.

I'm struggling to see where Scott Robertson has been poor in last month?? Yes he wasn't at the races today but you've raved about KT and his talents yet in recent games/weeks/ months Robertsons been head and shoulders above him in the performance stakes.

I trust TB and MM and we didn't get beaten and kept a clean sheet. That'll do for starters.

St Mirren are no mugs and have win 4 of their previous 5 games.

TT has had a very poor season by his standards and Cairney was asked to play wide right. What TB did was play players in their positions (still think I would if had Lewis at LB cos McGivern has been woeful).

Think you might be expecting too much too soon.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 08:25 AM
I disagree about the MF tbh. Scott Robertson has been our best and most consistent player /MF the season so far... High work rate and has been unlucky not to score a few more.
He had his quietest game yesterday but was probably being asked to play a slightly differing role.

KT has been relatively poor in recent weeks as has the majority of the team.

I am sure he will get his chance but as I said TB is the manager and it's his job to get the team playing.

Your comments about a poor start are way off course and are wrong. I am not expecting miracles But if you are then your in for a long hard season.

Fair comment about SR, and he's improved big time this season compared to last. KT does the simple things well. Every midfield needs a player like him. Gives you a pass that gives you time, plays it infront of you, plays it to feet, things you appreciate if you ever played in midfield or fed off a midfield playing up front. These things look basic to some fans and don't get the credit they deserve, to quote Yogi, "fitbaw folk ken", and anyone that's played will see those things in KT, that the rest of them don't really provide.

I don't expect miracles, I'm a hibby and after 25 years going every week I know to expect the unexpected and that Hibs will always let you down. It's just the way it is. Maybe I worded the above wrong about a worrying start. I was genuinely suprised and a bit shocked to see KT not starting. It's easy to misinterperate things in words and I can see how it looks a ***** post that I said above, was trying to make a point and apologies for coming across too negative. Wasn't my intentions. Heat of the moment etc...

MWHIBBIES
24-11-2013, 08:25 AM
Our keeper is a good shot stopper, and pretty steady. Not very good with crosses and doesn't command his area, esp the 6 yard box. But he's not our best player. He's a goalkeeper. We've had bad luck with keepers since Leighton so anyone decent gets raved about. However, again, he's a keeper, a steady one shouldn't be hard to find.

Re the midfield today, what was impressive about them? Cairney was not fit and shouldn't of started, Tom done well when he came on, out of position, got down the line a few times, 2 or 3 decent and dangerous balls into the box. Except for one header, Craig was non existent. Robertson was as poor as he has been in the last month or so and Stevenson is Stevenson, hard worker that gives his all but has no real ability.

I don't think it is an embarrassing comment. I said the same at the game when we heard the team. They all agreed that it was a baffling decision not to play him. Maybe I'm being over critical on things as I didn't want Butcher but I'm trying to see the positives in other things like I said about TT above and about Collins on another thread. I'm just struggling to see the logic in not starting our most talented midfielder.Using similar logic you could just say we've had bad luck with midfielders since Thomson/Brown/Boozy time and that anyone decent (thomson now) gets raved about, but that isn't true along with what you are saying about Williams, he is top 3 keepers in the league and we will be lucky to get someone better.

You are obviously some sort of Thomson ''fanboy'' who is incapable of seeing past him and you think bashing the rest of our midfield makes him seem better. Thomson is a good player no doubt but he doesn't automatically deserve to start, he hasn't been Griffiths carry the team good so far this season.

Thecat23
24-11-2013, 08:26 AM
I agree he's got to earn the right, and said above if he didn't show it in training then fair enough. However, if he's on a level pegging in training with the rest, he should start. TB will learn that as he goes on though.

I don't need to pop along anywhere to tell him my feelings, I go to each game so can voice my concerns, if any, there, but thanks for the option, I'll keep it in mind!

What if he hasn't been good in training and the ones who started well were. If everyone starts with a clean slate then I would pick my best 11 that I seen in training. But you said he should come out and justify that. Why??

The fact you didn't want Butcher says it all really.

Aldo
24-11-2013, 08:28 AM
I agree he's got to earn the right, and said above if he didn't show it in training then fair enough. However, if he's on a level pegging in training with the rest, he should start. TB will learn that as he goes on though. I don't need to pop along anywhere to tell him my feelings, I go to each game so can voice my concerns, if any, there, but thanks for the option, I'll keep it in mind!

That's it though.... We don't know what's going on at training or elsewhere. Maybe TB doesn't want to play with a holding MF and sees the best form of defence as attack.

I am not doubting KT is a very good player but the only person that can tell you why is TB or maybe MM or even the player himself.

Aldo
24-11-2013, 08:30 AM
Fair comment about SR, and he's improved big time this season compared to last. KT does the simple things well. Every midfield needs a player like him. Gives you a pass that gives you time, plays it infront of you, plays it to feet, things you appreciate if you ever played in midfield or fed off a midfield playing up front. These things look basic to some fans and don't get the credit they deserve, to quote Yogi, "fitbaw folk ken", and anyone that's played will see those things in KT, that the rest of them don't really provide. I don't expect miracles, I'm a hibby and after 25 years going every week I know to expect the unexpected and that Hibs will always let you down. It's just the way it is. Maybe I worded the above wrong about a worrying start. I was genuinely suprised and a bit shocked to see KT not starting. It's easy to misinterperate things in words and I can see how it looks a ***** post that I said above, was trying to make a point and apologies for coming across too negative. Wasn't my intentions. Heat of the moment etc...

Everyone has an opinion mate. Not disagreeing with you bout his ability just it's about the team not the individual. I am as frustrated as everyone else but this won't change over night.

The coming weeks will bring more changes and the players will defo have to up the ante or they will find themselves oot in their *****!

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 08:34 AM
I'm struggling to see where Scott Robertson has been poor in last month?? Yes he wasn't at the races today but you've raved about KT and his talents yet in recent games/weeks/ months Robertsons been head and shoulders above him in the performance stakes.

I trust TB and MM and we didn't get beaten and kept a clean sheet. That'll do for starters.

St Mirren are no mugs and have win 4 of their previous 5 games.

TT has had a very poor season by his standards and Cairney was asked to play wide right. What TB did was play players in their positions (still think I would if had Lewis at LB cos McGivern has been woeful).

Think you might be expecting too much too soon.

Read Robertson comment again. I never said he's been poor for a month. In simple terms, what I said means yesterday wasn't his greatest game. He has been one of, if not the best, performers this season.

What TB did was play players in their positions? You've just quoted two players who played out of position in TT and PC lol?? That's half the midfield if you want to be critical. PC can't avoid criticism cos he played on the right. He's a right footed winger FFS. He wasn't fit, clearly, that's why he wasn't great today.

I agree about RM though. We don't have a capable replacement though, which is why he can't get dropped. A switch with Hanlon might be worth a shout but I think Hanlon's a better CB than he is a FB.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 08:37 AM
What if he hasn't been good in training and the ones who started well were. If everyone starts with a clean slate then I would pick my best 11 that I seen in training. But you said he should come out and justify that. Why??

The fact you didn't want Butcher says it all really.

I said above that if he's been poor in training then fair do's.

I don't mean it straight out come out and say haha. It's a general comment. Something a journalist would maybe ask, "What was your thinking in leaving KT out" etc. That's all I meant.

The fact I didn't want Butcher says what? This will be good since you don't know me from Adam...

Brightside
24-11-2013, 08:41 AM
He was left out simply because Terry wanted Craig and Robertson as central midfielders. Therefore no room in the team for KT. Terry does seem a bit different from recent managers in wanting to play players in their natural positions. :not worth

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 08:44 AM
Everyone has an opinion mate. Not disagreeing with you bout his ability just it's about the team not the individual. I am as frustrated as everyone else but this won't change over night.

The coming weeks will bring more changes and the players will defo have to up the ante or they will find themselves oot in their *****!

What worries me is we say this every time. The players better up their game etc. Work rate was up yesterday, no one can argue with that and as a unit we closed down a lot quicker so hopefully Butcher has the desired effect in the long term.

Guess we are all frustrated. Apologies again mate for being too negative above, stemmed from an argument in the pub last night lol. Was just trying to make a point, badly granted ha!

Aldo
24-11-2013, 08:44 AM
Read Robertson comment again. I never said he's been poor for a month. In simple terms, what I said means yesterday wasn't his greatest game. He has been one of, if not the best, performers this season. What TB did was play players in their positions? You've just quoted two players who played out of position in TT and PC lol?? That's half the midfield if you want to be critical. PC can't avoid criticism cos he played on the right. He's a right footed winger FFS. He wasn't fit, clearly, that's why he wasn't great today. I agree about RM though. We don't have a capable replacement though, which is why he can't get dropped. A switch with Hanlon might be worth a shout but I think Hanlon's a better CB than he is a FB.

No PC was poor I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism, but his an attack minded player and played either AM or in behind the strikers in his Thistle days. PC is not a winger. Him playing there made more sense than SR playing there. If PC wasn't fit then he shouldn't of started- simple.

TT didn't start and came on for PC so TB changed it rather than bringing in OTJ and disrupting the central pairing.

The starting line up looked to be more balanced from the start especially in MF. We don't have an outball wide with pace.. That's a big problem.


As for LB just drop McGivern and put Lewis there and yes I know Lewis is a MF but at the moment is better than RM. Hanlon is a CB and should be nowhere near the FB positions.

Thecat23
24-11-2013, 08:47 AM
I said above that if he's been poor in training then fair do's.

I don't mean it straight out come out and say haha. It's a general comment. Something a journalist would maybe ask, "What was your thinking in leaving KT out" etc. That's all I meant.

The fact I didn't want Butcher says what? This will be good since you don't know me from Adam...

The fact you didn't want Butcher means you will be more critical than say someone who does. Fair dos if you didn't want him it wasn't going to please everyone. Out of interest who would you have wanted?

No I don't know you but I'm just picking up what you said simple as that. I rate KT but if I'm being honest he's been miles off the pace recently. I'd personally have dropped him myself!

Viva_Palmeiras
24-11-2013, 08:52 AM
He was left out simply because Terry wanted Craig and Robertson as central midfielders. Therefore no room in the team for KT. Terry does seem a bit different from recent managers in wanting to play players in their natural positions. :not worth

Recent managers! :) - I suppose it's relative but pretty much all the managers I've witnessed since Alex Miller (perhaps one of the biggest 'culprits' but possibly due to his longevity) have been at it...

Beefster
24-11-2013, 08:54 AM
It's only a matter of time before it becomes Hibs.net FACT that Katie is a disruptive influence, told Butcher and Malpas to get to **** or slows down the game too much for the new, improved Hibs. All of it is utter pish but that rarely matters.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 08:55 AM
Using similar logic you could just say we've had bad luck with midfielders since Thomson/Brown/Boozy time and that anyone decent (thomson now) gets raved about, but that isn't true along with what you are saying about Williams, he is top 3 keepers in the league and we will be lucky to get someone better.

You are obviously some sort of Thomson ''fanboy'' who is incapable of seeing past him and you think bashing the rest of our midfield makes him seem better. Thomson is a good player no doubt but he doesn't automatically deserve to start, he hasn't been Griffiths carry the team good so far this season.

We've not been unlucky since then, we have signed a lower standard of player so the results are to be expected.

I'm not a Thomson "fanboy", as you put it, complete opposite and I still find it hard to stomach him actually being back here after what's gone before, if being honest, but you wire in with your schoolboy banter if that's how you want to play it! His ability though, no one can deny. It's not a cheap shot at the rest of our midfield, in my opinion, and the opinion of others I know, he's above the other options we have. In that position, I'm not comparing him to Robertson for example. I agree KT doesn't carry the team, I've said as much above. It's the other things he does well that people refuse to aknowledge. They are seen as simple etc and as he's not dymanic enough for some but he rarely gives the ball away. 9 times out of ten the ball goes to a Hibs player and they can't score if we have the ball.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 09:04 AM
No PC was poor I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism, but his an attack minded player and played either AM or in behind the strikers in his Thistle days. PC is not a winger. Him playing there made more sense than SR playing there. If PC wasn't fit then he shouldn't of started- simple.

TT didn't start and came on for PC so TB changed it rather than bringing in OTJ and disrupting the central pairing.

The starting line up looked to be more balanced from the start especially in MF. We don't have an outball wide with pace.. That's a big problem.


As for LB just drop McGivern and put Lewis there and yes I know Lewis is a MF but at the moment is better than RM. Hanlon is a CB and should be nowhere near the FB positions.

Getting messy with all the initials lol. I agree about Cairney not being a winger, though everyone seems to play him out wide so **** knows. He has ability but lacks pace, but is a out the most creative player we have so, if fit, he starts more than not.

The LB and CH positions are tricky and I'll get stick for this but I don't rate Hanlon. He's not strong enough and get bullied far too much most weeks. But, we don't really have anything better than him at the moment. RM looked decent last season and seems to have dipped in form this year. LS at LB is not the answer though, signing another FB would be the way to go and possibly moving RM inside like you say. But hey ho, what do we know?! Got to trust the manager and previous mangers that they are best where they are.

Aldo
24-11-2013, 09:06 AM
Getting messy with all the initials lol. I agree about Cairney not being a winger, though everyone seems to play him out wide so **** knows. He has ability but lacks pace, but is a out the most creative player we have so, if fit, he starts more than not. The LB and CH positions are tricky and I'll get stick for this but I don't rate Hanlon. He's not strong enough and get bullied far too much most weeks. But, we don't really have anything better than him at the moment. RM looked decent last season and seems to have dipped in form this year. LS at LB is not the answer though, signing another FB would be the way to go and possibly moving RM inside like you say. But hey ho, what do we know?! Got to trust the manager and previous mangers that they are best where they are.

Just looked at the initials ha ha quite funny. I will agree that we need to trust the management team.

Col_0762
24-11-2013, 09:10 AM
The fact you didn't want Butcher means you will be more critical than say someone who does. Fair dos if you didn't want him it wasn't going to please everyone. Out of interest who would you have wanted?

No I don't know you but I'm just picking up what you said simple as that. I rate KT but if I'm being honest he's been miles off the pace recently. I'd personally have dropped him myself!

I praised other things about yesterday on another thread so I'm trying to be balanced and fair.

Who would I have wanted? To be honest, I'm not too sure. There were a few names I had in my head. I feel that TB was a simple option, if that makes sense. He's get my full support though and I'm sure he'll do more good than bad. I worded what I said originally badly, totally came off the wrong way!

Yep, KT hasn't been great lately, but who has in his position. They've all been piss poor. Still think him sitting with SR and LC in front would have been better today. Just my thoughts though, no one really gives a **** what we all think eh lol.

SMAXXA
24-11-2013, 09:17 AM
He slows the game down too much for TB as he is surplus to requirements


Disagreement at training during the week, or so the gossip mill goes.

:confused: Neither of these comments are anywhere near the truth

Sudds_1
24-11-2013, 09:30 AM
It's ****ing unreal what people are saying to justify Butcher's decision today. It's worrying if people can't see how far in front of the rest of the squad he is, well the midfield inparticular. We have 40 million central midfielders, only one has the ability to play at a higher level, and has done so. The others couldn't lace KT's boots.

Your opinion, their opinion, my opinion..........all relevant. Hardly ^^^^ing unreal...........and all entitled to have them eh?

FWIW I think Thomson is a good/above average player of his type, brought to the club by PF. A different Manager with a different philosophy on how the game should be played.

...........so it all depends on whether KT as a player fits it with TB's approach. If he doesn't, doesn't mean he's any less a player. Can't see him (KT) being all that bothered. Or me for that matter, as long as TB's approach delivers attractive football played at pace by committed Hibs players who play for the jersey...............:cb

Golden Bear
24-11-2013, 09:33 AM
:confused: Neither of these comments are anywhere near the truth

The truth has no place on this Board and malicious rumours are always presented as FACT.

:hnet:

number9dream
24-11-2013, 10:21 AM
I really hope KT hasn't spat the dummy out already and is ready to knuckle down and prove his worth. On yesterday's evidence, it might be better to shift Craig left and stick KT in beside Robbo. Keeps right / left balance in centre and allows Robbo to push on a bit more. Craig can deliver a cross and get in the box from left, which Lewis can't. He can challenge for left back. Right midfield remains a riddle...

Eyrie
24-11-2013, 10:26 AM
I'll trust Butcher to pick the best team based on what he sees in training and how he wants the team to play. Picking players based on what they show him and not reputation is essential.

Won't stop me second guessing him though, so I'd prefer to see Thomson in the team to allow Craig and Robertson to press on and support the strikers. Thomson can sit and make the passes to them, which will soon settle the argument of whether he slows the game down or was previously forced to hold the ball due to a lack of movement ahead. If not Thomson, then I'd have Tudur Jones or Taiwo holding, although they don't offer the same range of passing.

As regards Cairney, I don't think he's a good fit for this squad. He lacks the pace to play wide and he's behind Craig and Robertson for the central attacking role.

Ideal midfield for me is Thomson sitting with Craig, Robertson and Harris supporting the strikers. Switch Harris from wing to wing at times, sliding Craig and Robertson to cover for him (ie AH/LC/SR or LC/SR/AH) and make life difficult for the opposing defence by giving them different players to face during the game.

hibeeleicester
24-11-2013, 08:19 PM
If Fenlon had done the same this place would be in meltdown!

Very poor decision from Butcher, hopefully he realises that and gets KT back in the team.

Lets not play hoofball please.

Billy Whizz
24-11-2013, 08:29 PM
If Fenlon had done the same this place would be in meltdown!

Very poor decision from Butcher, hopefully he realises that and gets KT back in the team.

Lets not play hoofball please.

What was poor about it?
He also dropped Taiwo, OTJ and Vine, so he wasn't picking on Thomson. The team hasn't been performing so he had to make changes!

Heisenberg
24-11-2013, 08:46 PM
I don't get the big deal about Thomson not playing if I'm honest.

HibbyAndy
24-11-2013, 08:57 PM
I don't get the big deal about Thomson not playing if I'm honest.

Me neither.

He really isnt that good.

TheFamous1875
24-11-2013, 09:05 PM
In a way, I'm glad Thomson never started. It shows the squad and the fans that no one gets any special treatment. It's obviously not based on talent, it can't be, as he's easily the most talented player we have. It's a lesson to Thomson himself. He HAS to work to get into the team, just like everyone else.

Alex Ferguson had players at Man Utd when he arrived that were 'exempt' from the rules, and he got rid of them. If they don't want to follow the rules, you go. No matter how 'good' you're meant to be, if you don't comply, you go. Football is a team game.

I really do hope Thomson does comply to the criteria set and buys into Butcher's philosophies and works his arse of like everyone else as he's obviously a great asset for any team to have at this level, or arguably higher. However, if he doesn't put in the hours in training like everyone else, I'm afraid I'd be happy to see him go, as he was a perfect example of someone who thought they were bigger than the club, and it couldn't be a better message to see someone like him on his arse out the front door.

I'm no Thomson hater by the way, and I'm not saying for a .netFACT. he isn't doing these things, but I can see why he'd be more likely to not take to it and give as much as others, considering his 'status' in the game and where he probably 'should' be (not back at his first club whom he left very acrimoniously the first time). I just hope he shows the club that made him the player he was when he left the utmost respect, hard work and effort after what had happened the first time round. He's an example to the youngsters, and they are our club's future.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Liberal Hibby
24-11-2013, 09:13 PM
Isn't it as simple as Butcher experimenting to find the right blend?

Unseen work
24-11-2013, 10:10 PM
I think a player like Thomson is vital to playing attacking fast football as he collects the ball in any position and can pick a pass to feet or area that gets the attackers foward. For me Craig and Robertson were no existent and weren't showing for the ball or picking passes, making it harder for handling Stevenson and cairney to get on the ball.

cleanyman
24-11-2013, 10:51 PM
Me neither.

He really isnt that good.

His winners medals beg to differ.

Nevi_SOL
24-11-2013, 11:11 PM
Regardless of what you, I or anyone else thinks Butcher is the manager of Hibernian FC and he picks the team.

Yes KT is an excellent player and has the potential to be one of the best MF players in the league however no player should get a game because of past performances or reputation. He's been as bad in the last few games as he had been good in the games before.

No one is bigger than any team or club and that's been the problem at the club for years... Guys expecting to okay because they are who they are. They need to earn the right which means training hard and confirming to how the manager wants to set out the team.

My opinion mind


This. Personally I don't see the KT love-in. But I'm yet to see how he will play under butchers tactics. So will wait and see how he does and previously he shouldn't be guaranteed a place on reputation or "where he's been"

Nevi_SOL
24-11-2013, 11:12 PM
His winners medals beg to differ.

So he should start week in week out for having winners medals ? Hmmm

cleanyman
24-11-2013, 11:24 PM
So he should start week in week out for having winners medals ? Hmmm

He's a winner on and off the park unlike the majority of the current Hibs team

And he's our best player.

SunshineOnLeith
24-11-2013, 11:54 PM
Our best player this season has been Scott Robertson. Thomson was good against Celtic but other than that, meh. I'd rather Taiwo started if we're going to play a defensive midfielder.

RIP Bestie
25-11-2013, 01:13 AM
And there in lies the problem, anyone with sense of entitlement to one one of the first team shirts needs to earn that. Quality player yes, should he walk into the squad in the starting XI based on his reputation, absolutely not. KT has been coasting and I want to see more of what he has to offer. I want him to earn his place.
He is a long way off from being one of our poorer performers this season. He oozes quality and if that makes it look like he's coasting then fine. For me he is the sort of player you should be building a team around not using as a scapegoat. You read a lot on here about people wanting to see us play the "Hibs way". Kevin Thomson is the ONE player that we have at the club who can help us do that. There are too many people that are satisfied with mediocrity as long as players show they can run about a lot and look busy that will do. People need to get over what happened in the past and be grateful that a player of his quality wants to play for us.

Nevi_SOL
25-11-2013, 01:55 AM
He's a winner on and off the park unlike the majority of the current Hibs team

And he's our best player.

Celtic game aside he's been no better than any other in his position. IMO

MB62
25-11-2013, 11:38 AM
Celtic game aside he's been no better than any other in his position. IMO

And that was the ideal tactical game for K.T. to be playing in. I've said it for a while now that if he plays, it means we need to play 5 in midfield and one up front. The man is a superb football player in as much as he doesn't get shoved off the ball, can win a challenge and passes a good ball, but mostly sideways. K.T. very seldom takes the ball in midfield and drifts past players going forward with pace, having a crack at goal or playing a forward through, ala young Gauld at Dundee Utd (now there's a special talent).

K.T. will have his part to play, maybe even against Ross County this weekend where, IMO, a draw and replay wouldn't be a bad result for us.
I was actually quite happy Kevin was dropped and that Craig and Robertson were our two midfielders. Whilst I don't think either were all that great on Saturday, probably disappointing actually, I feel it is a combination that we should stick to for a while to see how well, or if, it works.

RIP
25-11-2013, 01:12 PM
Apologies if mentioned already but why was KT not starting?
Injured, or just thought to be not good enough? Bit gutted if the latter he's our best player imo

Only Terry and Maurice know and so far they haven't shared

Of course it won't stop us from reading the usual load of pash from people who like to speculate :greengrin

Golden Bear
25-11-2013, 01:55 PM
Finding the correct balance of the midfield players is a conundrum which previous Managers' have failed to solve so I'd imagine it's going to take El Tel more than a single game to find the best combination.

I've always been a big fan of KT as has undoubted class but if it means he sits the occasional game out for the benefit of the team then so be it.

Spike Mandela
25-11-2013, 01:58 PM
Defensive midfielders like KT will come in to their own in games againt the likes of Celtic and Aberdeen this year but Saturday proved you don't have to play defendive midfielders to keep a clean sheet against the likes of St Mirren.

TheReg!
25-11-2013, 06:43 PM
KT is a good player and I'm sure he will be busting a gut to be a part of TB new set up, I'm sure he will be in the starting team this weekend.

jacomo
26-11-2013, 12:12 PM
Only Terry and Maurice know and so far they haven't shared

Of course it won't stop us from reading the usual load of pash from people who like to speculate :greengrin

Apparently Katie headbutted a glass of red wine over TB's head but claimed that MM tripped him and stormed off the training ground...

jacomo
26-11-2013, 12:17 PM
KT is a good player and I'm sure he will be busting a gut to be a part of TB new set up, I'm sure he will be in the starting team this weekend.

Notwithstanding the nonsense above, I am sure you are right.

TB and MM have made much of starting with a clean slate, so they've got an opportunity to experiment with the starting line up and give everyone chances to impress. They will also be exploiting all of their man-management experience to push our squad to play at their best.

I am always thought there is something slightly missing in Katie's character, not quite the leader of men he aspires to be (this may just be a lingering resentment at the way he left for Rangers). Maybe he needs a bit of a shock to perform at his best?

Speedway
27-11-2013, 06:41 PM
Did Butcher sign Zibbi for ICT?

FitbaFolkKen
27-11-2013, 07:38 PM
He slows the game down too much for TB as he is surplus to requirements

Have I missed something somewhere? Kt been told he can leave? Or is it just a careless assumption with no basis?

Mr White
27-11-2013, 08:08 PM
Did Butcher sign Zibbi for ICT?

No,2 years before his time. He did sign Chris Hogg in 2011 though.

lapsedhibee
27-11-2013, 09:50 PM
No,2 years before his time. He did sign Chris Hogg in 2011 though.

Could he do a job for us now? :dunno:

Jonnyboy
27-11-2013, 10:13 PM
Could he do a job for us now? :dunno:

Nope

RIP Bestie
27-11-2013, 11:39 PM
Could he do a job for us now? :dunno:
Couldn't do one the first time