Petrie you are sitting on your arse watching this club die.

[blackpoolhibs]

Just sack this man, and bring in someone who knows what he's doing. You are supposed to be in charge, but are failing to do your job.

FFS even andy is coming roun and thinks its nearly time for us to part ways, if you are watching the games Rod, then surely to god you can see with your own eyes just how bad the style of football this man has managed to produce after nearly 2 years.

Rod put him and the rest of us out of our misery, and give us our team back.

[Saorsa]

Just sack this man, and bring in someone who knows what he's doing. You are supposed to be in charge, but are failing to do your job.

FFS even andy is coming roun and thinks its nearly time for us to part ways, if you are watching the games Rod, then surely to god you can see with your own eyes just how bad the style of football this man has managed to produce after nearly 2 years.

Rod put him and the rest of us out of our misery, and give us our team back.Aye he's been quite good at that right enough, just the man for bringing in the right man :rolleyes: Would be better if we had somebody who kens what he's doing tae bring in somebody that kens what he's doing.

[Golden Bear]

Just sack this man, and bring in someone who knows what he's doing. You are supposed to be in charge, but are failing to do your job.

FFS even andy is coming roun and thinks its nearly time for us to part ways, if you are watching the games Rod, then surely to god you can see with your own eyes just how bad the style of football this man has managed to produce after nearly 2 years.

Rod put him and the rest of us out of our misery, and give us our team back.

:agree:

And whoever was responsible for this latest disastrous appointment should be shipped out on the same boat.

[The Falcon]

Just sack this man, and bring in someone who knows what he's doing. You are supposed to be in charge, but are failing to do your job.

FFS even andy is coming roun and thinks its nearly time for us to part ways, if you are watching the games Rod, then surely to god you can see with your own eyes just how bad the style of football this man has managed to produce after nearly 2 years.

Rod put him and the rest of us out of our misery, and give us our team back.


Did you watch it or are you still not going? :wink:

[Emerald]

Just sack this man, and bring in someone who knows what he's doing. You are supposed to be in charge, but are failing to do your job.

FFS even andy is coming roun and thinks its nearly time for us to part ways, if you are watching the games Rod, then surely to god you can see with your own eyes just how bad the style of football this man has managed to produce after nearly 2 years.

Rod put him and the rest of us out of our misery, and give us our team back.

Spot on, we need the club to know its either Fenlon or the fans. As someone on another thread said it is disrespectful to the fans if he is just hanging around until his contract expires. Get rid of him and save the rest of a season in a league that we should be having a real go in. Decisions need to be made for the sake of the club and not for the sake of Pat Fenlon.

[blackpoolhibs]

Did you watch it or are you still not going? :wink:

:greengrin

Just saw the goals on sky, and will be at my first game since the Malmo debacle on Wednesday. And then my next game will probably be the new year derby.

[lucky]

The club is not dying, you confused with manky mob at the PBS

[GlenrothesHibee]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

[DaveF]

The club is not dying, you confused with manky mob at the PBS

He's killing off the support. I know a few long standing ST holders who are at the point of packing it in because the football is so dire.

[Craig_in_Prague]

He is an accountant and the accounts are half decent. Crowds have not plummeted (surprisingly), so things will toddle on as is. We are mid table side at the very best, but does our board really care. They have stood by him through our worst results in history and 2 years of just rotten football."Enjoy him till May" I am afraid (unless the league position or crowd significantly worsens)
If Fenlon is the best candidate we can attract, then the games a bogey.

[blackpoolhibs]

The club is not dying, you confused with manky mob at the PBS

I needs a bloody good doctor, Harold Shipman is the current incumbent.

[Shaggy]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

the voice of reason.
I support hibs through thick and thin, another six months isni going to change that,
yes its been thin for years.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

After all the time that he has been in charge, I still don't know the style of football that Pat Fenlon wants his teams to play. What we see is largely awful with the wee glimpses here and there of decent stuff.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Watching this club die? Blackpool, you mentalist.

[Saorsa]

He's killing off the support. I know a few long standing ST holders who are at the point of packing it in because the football is so dire.Correct, This club may never go down the pan because of over spending. Instead of financial mismanagement ruining this club it will suffer because it supporters have had the stuffing knocked out of them and given up because of endless years of mind numbing garbage. It'll be like death by a thousand cuts instead of a bullet tae the heid.

[hibee_girl]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

:agree:

[hibsbollah]

Is this another entry in the 'Overreaction Thread' competition? No-one died yesterday.

*edit, I'm sure a pedant will point out that actually, thousands of people probably died yesterday. But you know what I mean:rolleyes:

[Keith_M]

'Die' is a bit over the top.

I'd use the word 'stagnate'.

[Winston Ingram]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

We lost to a team because this muppet set the the team up wrongly yet again

[Hibercelona]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

Don't you ever ask yourself why the opposition team is better and why we should just accept it?

And how can we "move on", if we're not actually going anywhere as a club?

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

It Is sad though what this great club has been reduced to.

We need an ambitious board that have a passion for football. Turkey's aren't going to vote for xmas though so we're stuck with what we have. Even my emails to the board members do not get a response now! They just stick their heads in the sand and hope it will all blow over.

The only good thing just now are the fans, and they deserve a LOT more than the p!sh we're getting at the moment.

There is still a big appetite for following Hibs I think, but of all the personal friends/fans that I've known over the years, I'm the only one still going along! I went alone yesterday - my son has given up on Hibs and it breaks my heart.

[Bishop Hibee]

Petrie should have gone after the 2012 cup final. We need a Chairman with fresh ideas and a hunger to succeed.

[blackpoolhibs]

'Die' is a bit over the top.

I'd use the word 'stagnate'.

Perhaps die is a bit strong, replace it with suffer if you want. :agree:

[Makaveli]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

Why should I accept that Aberdeen are better than us?

How long has McIness had to shape his team?

How long has Fenlon had to shape his?

As for moving on, I'd f***ing love to. Just need to sack Fenlon so we can start.

[Saorsa]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.Aye, total over reaction tae another dire performance among years of dire performances. :rolleyes:

[SMAXXA]

Only one team dying in this city and it ain't ours.

[Keith_M]

Perhaps die is a bit strong, replace it with suffer if you want. :agree:


I'd defo go with that. :wink:

[Emerald]

Aye, total over reaction tae another dire performance among years of dire performances.

"Another" being the key word and we will move on to ANOTHER cycle of pish poor performances with the odd decent result and the cycle continues. We need to accept this pish though and move on. We should not expect anything further and have no ambition and not over react to two years of the Fenlon bore fest, its our destiny. :confused:

Come on folks roll up roll up and watch Pat Fenlons team drain the life out of the fans. Accept it and move on.

[The Falcon]

Perhaps die is a bit strong, replace it with suffer if you want. :agree:

Been suffering for years and years. Saw Leighanne Easton at the game yesterday which added a dollop of perspective

[Bronson]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

Spot on, 1 defeat in 9 games isn't a worrying stat for me.

[Makaveli]

Spot on, 1 defeat in 9 games isn't a worrying stat for me.

Shame it's not a real one, either.

We've lost two of the last four... twice as many as we've won. :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

The thing that is putting me off returning to ER is not the state of the club. It is the state of a minority of fans.

[DJ HIBBY]

The thing that is putting me off returning to ER is not the state of the club. It is the state of a minority of fans.

Really??? Never heard such a lot of rubbish

[greenpaper55]

The thing that is putting me off returning to ER is not the state of the club. It is the state of a minority of fans.

And the thing that is putting me off returning to ER is our home record, how many wins in the league since the start of the year ?. No other set of fans would put up with this garbage.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Really??? Never heard such a lot of rubbish

Good of you to share your life experiences. :rolleyes:

[Thecat23]

Have to laugh at the ones who are saying "we lost to a better team."

Guys I'll let you into a little secret... It's nothing to do with losing to a better team. It's the standard of football. It's his tactics to defend for our lives and hope we don't lose. Yes we only lost 1 in 9 or something. How many of those were convincing wins bar St.Mirren? Yeah let's set out not to lose and draw maybe the next 6 games but hey, we are six unbeaten.

Pull your heads out the sand eh! This is shocking and I mean shocking football. Most Hibs fans see it, the media all see it away fans all see it. I don't know if it's just a defensive mentality towards Hibs that folk trying to defend him have and hate seeing bad things said about the club.

He's tried and failed, the crowds are very poor so that in itself says it all. He will go, he needs to go.

Ian Holloway walked from Palace because he couldn't take them further and held his hands up. That was refreshing as he openly admitted he just couldn't do it.

Pat should do the same and say I've left the club with a good squad and helped change the culture of the club which for me he has. Sadly this is as far as he can go. He can't beat top 6 sides. Now is a great time to change things. This league isn't great we could and should be top 3 or 4 max.

[hibees 7062]

Why should I accept that Aberdeen are better than us?

How long has McIness had to shape his team?

How long has Fenlon had to shape his?

As for moving on, I'd f***ing love to. Just need to sack Fenlon so we can start.

:agree: :top marks

[Phil D. Rolls]

And the thing that is putting me off returning to ER is our home record, how many wins in the league since the start of the year ?. No other set of fans would put up with this garbage.

Really, how about Raith Rovers fans, or Newcastle fans, or fans of FC Olhaneses? The vast majority of football fans have to tolerate long periods of mediocrity, interspersed with the odd glimmer of hope.

What, I'm guessing they don't have to put up with a particular type of pie faced, hypercritical, know all that has the answer to the eternal dilemma of how to get their club back on a par with the giants of world football.

Actually, they probably do, it's just that I can't make out what Olhanese or Newcastle fans ate saying.

[DJ HIBBY]

Good of you to share your life experiences. :rolleyes:

IMO its a convenient excuse not to watch the turgid dross we have to endure every week. Why does a small minority of fans put you off going? Correct me if I am wrong but our fans continue to back Fenlon and his team every week during the games and he has been let off big style compared to previous managers who did get hounded out rightly or wrongly.

[kentao]

Spot on, 1 defeat in 9 games isn't a worrying stat for me.
2 wins at home in 2013 should be a worrying stat though.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Have to laugh at the ones who are saying "we lost to a better team."

Guys I'll let you into a little secret... It's nothing to do with losing to a better team. It's the standard of football. It's his tactics to defend for our lives and hope we don't lose. Yes we only lost 1 in 9 or something. How many of those were convincing wins bar St.Mirren? Yeah let's set out not to lose and draw maybe the next 6 games but hey, we are six unbeaten.

Pull your heads out the sand eh! This is shocking and I mean shocking football. Most Hibs fans see it, the media all see it away fans all see it. I don't know if it's just a defensive mentality towards Hibs that folk trying to defend him have and hate seeing bad things said about the club.

He's tried and failed, the crowds are very poor so that in itself says it all. He will go, he needs to go.

Ian Holloway walked from Palace because he couldn't take them further and held his hands up. That was refreshing as he openly admitted he just couldn't do it.

Pat should do the same and say I've left the club with a good squad and helped change the culture of the club which for me he has. Sadly this is as far as he can go. He can't beat top 6 sides. Now is a great time to change things. This league isn't great we could and should be top 3 or 4 max.

Strangely enough Willie Miller, reckoned the teams were pretty much deadlocked, and that it would take: a) a mistake, or b) a moment of brilliance to break the deadlock. As it happened, it was both.

[Phil D. Rolls]

IMO its a convenient excuse not to watch the turgid dross we have to endure every week. Why does a small minority of fans put you off going? Correct me if I am wrong but our fans continue to back Fenlon and his team every week during the games and he has been let off big style compared to previous managers who did get hounded out rightly or wrongly.

Keep going Sigmund, I'm sure there's lots more you can tell me about myself.

I honestly thought it was having to listen to whingers that was putting me off, but clearly it's deeper. I can see now that a lifetime of not expecting much on the pitch has been nothing more than my subconscious masking deeper issues.

By the way, do you take cheques?

[hibees 7062]

Have to laugh at the ones who are saying "we lost to a better team."

Guys I'll let you into a little secret... It's nothing to do with losing to a better team. It's the standard of football. It's his tactics to defend for our lives and hope we don't lose. Yes we only lost 1 in 9 or something. How many of those were convincing wins bar St.Mirren? Yeah let's set out not to lose and draw maybe the next 6 games but hey, we are six unbeaten.

Pull your heads out the sand eh! This is shocking and I mean shocking football. Most Hibs fans see it, the media all see it away fans all see it. I don't know if it's just a defensive mentality towards Hibs that folk trying to defend him have and hate seeing bad things said about the club.

He's tried and failed, the crowds are very poor so that in itself says it all. He will go, he needs to go.

Ian Holloway walked from Palace because he couldn't take them further and held his hands up. That was refreshing as he openly admitted he just couldn't do it.

Pat should do the same and say I've left the club with a good squad and helped change the culture of the club which for me he has. Sadly this is as far as he can go. He can't beat top 6 sides. Now is a great time to change things. This league isn't great we could and should be top 3 or 4 max.

:agree: Fenlon out Holloway in

[The_Horde]

Fenlon has steadied the ship. Changed the mentality of the players and brought in guys who genuinely care about the club. But the standard of football is dreadful.

It's time now for someone else to come in and bring some new, exciting ideas. (maybe like actually keeping the ball and maybe, just maybe taking the game to teams at ER)

[Emerald]

Strangely enough Willie Miller, reckoned the teams were pretty much deadlocked, and that it would take: a) a mistake, or b) a moment of brilliance to break the deadlock. As it happened, it was both.

The only reason it was deadlock was the score being nil nil. Apart from that statistic Aberdeen were winning in every department and we were a very poor second.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The only reason it was deadlock was the score being nil nil. Apart from that statistic Aberdeen were winning in every department and we were a very poor second.

Obviously WM was being diplomatic, and forcing some impartiality into his commentary.

Was it before, or after Vernons strike that Collins missed an open goal? Not being funny, but sometimes the radio can make games sound more exciting than they actually are.

[Emerald]

Obviously WM was being diplomatic, and forcing some impartiality into his commentary.

Was it before, or after Vernons strike that Collins missed an open goal? Not being funny, but sometimes the radio can make games sound more exciting than they actually are.

It would have been a very undeserved equaliser but I would have taken it.

[Thecat23]

Strangely enough Willie Miller, reckoned the teams were pretty much deadlocked, and that it would take: a) a mistake, or b) a moment of brilliance to break the deadlock. As it happened, it was both.

So the Dons didn't have more possession and more shots on goal? Must have been to a different game to Miller yesterday. We were ***** and only defended well to stop the Dons scoring more.

[southern hibby]

We may not die I'n the sense of the word but we will constantly stagnate under the present board. We have no plan A never mind a plan B when A isn't working

I have watched my HIBS my whole life. If we do not try and change then we are only as good as the APATHY that has been the other lot for 5 years.

I have a love for my team that has has turned me into a supporter that can be proud of it's stadium and achievements under a Scottish league that has little money being pumped into it compared to other leagues. However we have constantly under achieved by supporters expectations, however manager, players and even fans do not know what the board calls achievement.

I for one am at the point of asking why I am expected to pay my hard earned cash for a manager to set up players I'n a formation / game plan that we as fans just can't work out.

I am all I'n favour of parting company with felon and any member of the board who feel that Fenlon Is the man for us. Please can we have as our next manager someone who wants to be here is committed to being here ( not saying Fenlon doesn't) but can manage to set up a team with assets available and has a plan B.

Can we has paying customers have value for our money. We as paying customers have a right to voice our opinion and can I please say that I do not want the next manager to be the cheap option GGTTH

[Phil D. Rolls]

We may not die I'n the sense of the word but we will constantly stagnate under the present board. We have no plan A never mind a plan B when A isn't working

I have watched my HIBS my whole life. If we do not try and change then we are only as good as the APATHY that has been the other lot for 5 years.

I have a love for my team that has has turned me into a supporter that can be proud of it's stadium and achievements under a Scottish league that has little money being pumped into it compared to other leagues. However we have constantly under achieved by supporters expectations, however manager, players and even fans do not know what the board calls achievement.

I for one am at the point of asking why I am expected to pay my hard earned cash for a manager to set up players I'n a formation / game plan that we as fans just can't work out.

I am all I'n favour of parting company with felon and any member of the board who feel that Fenlon Is the man for us. Please can we have as our next manager someone who wants to be here is committed to being here ( not saying Fenlon doesn't) but can manage to set up a team with assets available and has a plan B.

Can we has paying customers have value for our money. We as paying customers have a right to voice our opinion and can I please say that I do not want the next manager to be the cheap option GGTTH

Get over yourself. YOUR Hibs, I thought they belonged to us all.

[Borderhibbie76]

Ffs the overreactions on here to every single defeat are becoming tiresome. ..for those who don't want to support the club...well don't!! Yes we were poor yest but we are hibs, not bloody barca and we have no divine right to win every week!!

[GoldenEagle]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.


Ask yourself HOW Aberdeen are a better team with their manager only being in the door for 6 months and then come back.

[Borderhibbie76]

And no im not fenlons biggest fan neither before I get accussed if being a happy clapper!!

[GreenCastle]

How are Aberdeen all of a sudden a better team than us?

There are a few myths flying around -

1. Fenlon has made us harder to beat - certain results suggest otherwise.

2. Fenlon has good players he just needs to use them - disagree - the squad isn't balanced and some of his players are not worth the value = Collins.

Wednesday - he has to get a result or I am going to be raging.

If he doesn't I would expect him to resign or the board to sack him.

He's not getting his contract renewed - they are just letting his contract run down and will replace at end of the season - why wait ? Surely get a new manager in sooner and allow him to work longer with the players - rather than just a summer transfer window.

Bottom line is it's the cheap option not to get rid of him now - though could be expensive if we don't reach semi finals of league cup / top 6 / drop in ST renewals!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Ffs the overreactions on here to every single defeat are becoming tiresome. ..for those who don't want to support the club...well don't!! Yes we were poor yest but we are hibs, not bloody barca and we have no divine right to win every week!!

:top marks

I would actually be keen to get back to ER, I started to get fed up around about the end of Yogis shot as manager. I couldn't stand all the dire negativity around me.

When times are hard for a club, fans can either try to be King Canute, and turn the tide. Or they can laugh at themselves and the ludicrous concept of paying to be miserable.

I've always gone for the second approach, because the first is like p ssing against Niagra - nothing will change.

Maybe it's the all seated stadiums, but I just find that listening to the same baw bags whining their guts out, without the slightest idea how to make things better, too much to take.

My choice whether to go or not. I just wish small groups of people would stop kidding the self they speak for every fan. Sorry to rake up old news, but there was a protest organised earlier in the season - how many people turned up.

So, as you say, people can choose whether to go to the games or not. Maybe people need to think about what's missing in their lives if the football means so much to them.


Ask yourself HOW Aberdeen are a better team with their manager only being in the door for 6 months and then come back.

Is it possible they've been on a steadier keel than us for the last few years. Maybe Paw Broon handed over the foundations of a better team? Another thing might be that they are delaying the inevitable day when they have to spend on their stadium?

[Thecat23]

Ffs the overreactions on here to every single defeat are becoming tiresome. ..for those who don't want to support the club...well don't!! Yes we were poor yest but we are hibs, not bloody barca and we have no divine right to win every week!!

Hahaha, really? So we have to be Barca to beat Aberdeen? And we think we should win every week? You sadly don't get this do you. It's the past 2 years of honking dire football. Serious question do you attend ER? And if so you happy with how we are playing?

[Deansy]

He is an accountant and the accounts are half decent. Crowds have not plummeted (surprisingly), so things will toddle on as is. We are mid table side at the very best, but does our board really care. They have stood by him through our worst results in history and 2 years of just rotten football."Enjoy him till May" I am afraid (unless the league position or crowd significantly worsens)
If Fenlon is the best candidate we can attract, then the games a bogey.

Yup - As every season passes, we, the fans, are not happy as we consider our results/play/league-position etc not good enough. However, if you look at it from Rod Petrie/the board's point-of-view, as every season passes, our results/play/league-position etc generate enough money to enable them to share out (roughly) half-a-mil between themselves - Season-in/Season-out. I get the feeling that as long as we avoid relegation, they don't want to 'Rock the Boat' and nothing will change !!

[MWHIBBIES]

Really? The club is dying? :faf:

I'd hate to see some of you if things were actually bad and we really were in trouble.

[Borderhibbie76]

Hahaha, really? So we have to be Barca to beat Aberdeen? And we think we should win every week? You sadly don't get this do you. It's the past 2 years of honking dire football. Serious question do you attend ER? And if so you happy with how we are playing?
Yes im a ST holder and have been for many years. No im not happy with fenlons style of play but the doomsday overreactions on here to every defeat are way OTT. We have been in far worse situations than this...

[Borderhibbie76]

[QUOTE=MWHIBBIES;3781272]Really? The club is dying? :faf:

I'd hate to see some of you if things were actually bad and we really were in trouble.[/QUOTE

my point exactly mate

[Thecat23]

Yes im a ST holder and have been for many years. No im not happy with fenlons style of play but the doomsday overreactions on here to every defeat and way OTT. We have been in far worse situations than this...

I think folk are tired of how we are playing. It's becoming very hard for folk to defend Pat now. Look at the crowds, folk are staying away now and it's no good to Hibs keeping Fenlon on. People care a lot about the club and that's why there is so many posts when we lose.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Yup - As every season passes, we, the fans, are not happy as we consider our results/play/league-position etc not good enough. However, if you look at it from Rod Petrie/the board's point-of-view, as every season passes, our results/play/league-position etc generate enough money to enable them to share out (roughly) half-a-mil between themselves - Season-in/Season-out. I get the feeling that as long as we avoid relegation, they don't want to 'Rock the Boat' and nothing will change !!

Jeezo yet another fans' spokesman. :brickwall:
[:hmmm:]

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think folk are tired of how we are playing. It's becoming very hard for folk to defend Pat now. Look at the crowds, folk are staying away now and it's no good to Hibs keeping Fenlon on. People care a lot about the club and that's why there is so many posts when we lose.

And even more when we win. Think about it. :wink:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Ffs the overreactions on here to every single defeat are becoming tiresome. ..for those who don't want to support the club...well don't!! Yes we were poor yest but we are hibs, not bloody barca and we have no divine right to win every week!!

I might be wrong but in more than 30 years following Hibs, I have never met one single fan that expects us to win every week. Not one single fan and I don't think I have heard anyone even suggest it on here.

[Saorsa]

I might be wrong but in more than 30 years following Hibs, I have never met one single fan that expects us to win every week. Not one single fan and I don't think I have heard anyone even suggest it on here.Neither have I, I do expect us tae compete every week and we fail miserably at that and that is unacceptable. This isnae about yesterday this about 2 years of yesterdays.

[Hibercelona]

As fans, we should just shut up and except when we lay down and lose to teams that shouldn't be better than us.

And we should be overjoyed by the odd 1-0 fluke that keeps us away from relegation.


Thats the impression I get from some posters on here anyway.

[The Green Goblin]

I think it`s not the result so much as the way it was lost that bothers many folks.

We never looked like we wanted to take the game to Aberdeen at any point. Aberdeen seized the game by the scruff of the neck from the very beginning and they looked for the whole game, like they actually gave a monkeys about whether or not they won it or not. We looked half as fast as they did the whole game, we had no width, most of the time we gave the ball away immediately after we won it, we skelped God knows how many desperate last ditch hoofed clearances up into the stand or up the park straight to one of their players and we were chasing shadows for at least the first 30 minutes. Even Beuzelin said that on Hibs TV, and he works for Hibs.

It is this which irritates me. I can take a loss to another team without calling for the manager`s head. You win games, you lose games. That`s how it goes. But if you don`t compete, or look like you are trying to win, if instead your tactics are to try to avoid losing, then you are letting the fans and yourself down and that is never, ever good enough for Hibs.

I find it strange that there`s so many people on this thread defending this. Even if you don`t think sacking PF is the answer, that doesn`t mean you shouldn`t still criticise things you are not happy with. And how could any Hibs fan possibly be happy about the way we played yesterday, never mind the result? At least be honest about it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

As fans, we should just shut up and except when we lay down and lose to teams that shouldn't be better than us.

And we should be overjoyed by the odd 1-0 fluke that keeps us away from relegation.


Thats the impression I get from some posters on here anyway.

Nobody is telling you what to do.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Why should I accept that Aberdeen are better than us?

How long has McIness had to shape his team?

How long has Fenlon had to shape his?

As for moving on, I'd f***ing love to. Just need to sack Fenlon so we can start.


:agree:

[Hibercelona]

Nobody is telling you what to do.

Except those telling me and others not to bother going back, if we're not happy with the way things are?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think it`s not the result so much as the way it was lost that bothers many folks.

We never looked like we wanted to take the game to Aberdeen at any point. Aberdeen seized the game by the scruff of the neck from the very beginning and they looked for the whole game, like they actually gave a monkeys about whether or not they won it or not. We looked half as fast as they did the whole game, we had no width, most of the time we gave the ball away immediately after we won it, we skelped God knows how many desperate last ditch hoofed clearances up into the stand or up the park straight to one of their players and we were chasing shadows for at least the first 30 minutes. Even Beuzelin said that on Hibs TV, and he works for Hibs.

It is this which irritates me. I can take a loss to another team without calling for the manager`s head. You win games, you lose games. That`s how it goes. But if you don`t compete, or look like you are trying to win, if instead your tactics are to try to avoid losing, then you are letting the fans and yourself down and that is never, ever good enough for Hibs.

I find it strange that there`s so many people on this thread defending this. Even if you don`t think sacking PF is the answer, that doesn`t mean you shouldn`t still criticise things you are not happy with. And how could any Hibs fan possibly be happy about the way we played yesterday, never mind the result? At least be honest about it.

For some of us football is an alternative to going to the cinema. Maybe we are less ambitious people, or fulfill our ambitions elsewhere, or maybe we see it as just a game and aren't that serious about it.

In the old days of terracing you could move away from people you disagreed with. Now you are forced to listen to them week in, week out.

What I am saying is that it isnt always results, or style of play that keeps people away. Sometimes it's the anger and the insanity - some people get enough of that in their real lives, without having to put up with it when they are trying to relax.

I'm not telling anyone what to do, just pointing out that the solutions aren't always as simple as they think.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Except those telling me and others not to bother going back, if we're not happy with the way things are?

If I said that, I'm sorry. What I should have said is, "you have a choice".

[hibsbollah]

Have to laugh at the ones who are saying "we lost to a better team."

Guys I'll let you into a little secret... It's nothing to do with losing to a better team. It's the standard of football. It's his tactics to defend for our lives and hope we don't lose. Yes we only lost 1 in 9 or something. How many of those were convincing wins bar St.Mirren? Yeah let's set out not to lose and draw maybe the next 6 games but hey, we are six unbeaten.

Pull your heads out the sand eh! This is shocking and I mean shocking football. Most Hibs fans see it, the media all see it away fans all see it. I don't know if it's just a defensive mentality towards Hibs that folk trying to defend him have and hate seeing bad things said about the club.

He's tried and failed, the crowds are very poor so that in itself says it all. He will go, he needs to go.

Ian Holloway walked from Palace because he couldn't take them further and held his hands up. That was refreshing as he openly admitted he just couldn't do it.

Pat should do the same and say I've left the club with a good squad and helped change the culture of the club which for me he has. Sadly this is as far as he can go. He can't beat top 6 sides. Now is a great time to change things. This league isn't great we could and should be top 3 or 4 max.

Laugh all you like but we DID lose to a better team. McGinn, Barry Robson, Willo Flood, Johnny Hayes, all proven top SPL players who can create chances from midfield and we'd have been delighted to pick any of them up in the summer. He also brings on Greg Wylde (another attacking player who could make us better) and Scott Vernon who score the goals that beat us.


Our squad is stronger now than when Fenlon arrived, but we're still a way behind Aberdeen, who will finish second IMO.

[The Green Goblin]

For some of us football is an alternative to going to the cinema. Maybe we are less ambitious people, or fulfill our ambitions elsewhere, or maybe we see it as just a game and aren't that serious about it.

In the old days of terracing you could move away from people you disagreed with. Now you are forced to listen to them week in, week out.

What I am saying is that it isnt always results, or style of play that keeps people away. Sometimes it's the anger and the insanity - some people get enough of that in their real lives, without having to put up with it when they are trying to relax.

I'm not telling anyone what to do, just pointing out that the solutions aren't always as simple as they think.


Don`t you think these are separate issues though FR? I know what it`s like to sit at ER with some screaming banshee bursting your ear drums every 5 seconds or someone who has just come along to vent their uncontrollable rage and take it out on whatever is going on on the park, win or lose, but these people always find something to scream about and they are, imho, a minority. That just seems to be why they go to the football. I moved my ST a couple of times because of this a few years back. I agree - I get plenty of that all week without choosing to expose myself to it on a Saturday.

But I still think we are talking about different things here. I just hate to see a Hibs side not at least competing in a game and that`s really what I was posting about.

[Sudds_1]

Another embarrassing over reaction. We lost to a better team. Accept it and move on.

then he's one of an ever increasing number of "over reactionists"................

Defeat to a better team I can accept.....have done for years. This? BH is bang on !

[Hibercelona]

Laugh all you like but we DID lose to a better team. McGinn, Barry Robson, Willo Flood, Johnny Hayes, all proven top SPL players who can create chances from midfield and we'd have been delighted to pick any of them up in the summer. He also brings on Greg Wylde (another attacking player who could make us better) and Scott Vernon who score the goals that beat us.


Our squad is stronger now than when Fenlon arrived, but we're still a way behind Aberdeen, who will finish second IMO.

We've been "way behind" for years.

And i'm not talking about way behind specific clubs in the league, i'm talking about way behind our own targets.

We're always stuck at the "work in progress" phase, while other clubs simply make targets and punch above their weight to hit them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Don`t you think these are separate issues though FR? I know what it`s like to sit at ER with some screaming banshee bursting your ear drums every 5 seconds or someone who has just come along to vent their uncontrollable rage and take it out on whatever is going on on the park, win or lose, but these people always find something to scream about and they are, imho, a minority. That just seems to be why they go to the football. I moved my ST a couple of times because of this a few years back. I agree - I get plenty of that all week without choosing to expose myself to it on a Saturday.

But I still think we are talking about different things here. I just hate to see a Hibs side not at least competing in a game and that`s really what I was posting about.

I have to be honest, and say I am talking entirely from a personal perspective. I have been thinking of going back for a while now, weekends off are rare though, and I am maybe over cautious about a negative experience.

Maybe my mistake is to pick up on negativity on here, and transfer it onto how I think ALL the fans behave. Not having a dig here, but the "protest" earlier this season showed up what an insular world hits.net is.

I do wonder though if there as many people frustrated with the team and the rebuilding process as it seems on here. I suppose the only way to find out is to get along to ER and find out.

Some people on here though should tear up their applications to work in the club's marketing department. :greengrin

[Alfred E Newman]

Spot on, 1 defeat in 9 games isn't a worrying stat for me.

While those statistics are not bad they don't tell the full story. We have managed to gather 15 points in 11 games even although we have managed to only score a paltry 9 goals in the process.
For a club that was historicly one of the most attractive sides to watch these figures are not exactly going to put bums on seats.

[Thecat23]

Laugh all you like but we DID lose to a better team. McGinn, Barry Robson, Willo Flood, Johnny Hayes, all proven top SPL players who can create chances from midfield and we'd have been delighted to pick any of them up in the summer. He also brings on Greg Wylde (another attacking player who could make us better) and Scott Vernon who score the goals that beat us.


Our squad is stronger now than when Fenlon arrived, but we're still a way behind Aberdeen, who will finish second IMO.

Read my post again. I'm not saying the Dons weren't. But Celtic are a far better team and we at least tried to close them down. Yesterday was an embarrassing performance plain and simple. Dress it up whatever way you like but hibs are *****.

[hibsbollah]

We've been "way behind" for years.

And i'm not talking about way behind specific clubs in the league, i'm talking about way behind our own targets.

We're always stuck at the "work in progress" phase, while other clubs simply make targets and punch above their weight to hit them.

I agree. It's been like this at Hibs for years. And under the watch of Calderwood, Hughes, Paatelainen, Collins (arguably) and of course Fenlon. Which just goes to show our problems go deeper than the fact that Fenlon is picking the team. Does he have us playing the kind of football I paid close to £500 to watch this season? No. Do I hold him solely responsible? No.

[Phil D. Rolls]

We've been "way behind" for years.

And i'm not talking about way behind specific clubs in the league, i'm talking about way behind our own targets.

We're always stuck at the "work in progress" phase, while other clubs simply make targets and punch above their weight to hit them.

What targets are these? I got the impression that failure to set targets was one of the main frustrations about the board.

Is it maybe the case that the targets imagined by some fans don't match the boards actual targets?

Two league cups in 22 years, three Scottish Cup finals in 13, numerous semi finals and a solvent club would be a dream for most clubs outside the OF. Those that have had higher expectations have usually failed to achieve long term success, or financial stability.

Yes, it's grim now. Not as grim as the 80s, or I'm guessing many other decades in the last 136 years. And, I don't think it's any more grim for us than for other clubs.

[Hibercelona]

I have to be honest, and say I am talking entirely from a personal perspective. I have been thinking of going back for a while now, weekends off are rare though, and I am maybe over cautious about a negative experience.

Maybe my mistake is to pick up on negativity on here, and transfer it onto how I think ALL the fans behave. Not having a dig here, but the "protest" earlier this season showed up what an insular world hits.net is.

I do wonder though if there as many people frustrated with the team and the rebuilding process as it seems on here. I suppose the only way to find out is to get along to ER and find out.

Some people on here though should tear up their applications to work in the club's marketing department. :greengrin

Is that what this is? The "rebuilding" stage?

Funny, because I thought every SPL club was in a constant state of rebuilding anyway. It's a buy/sell league is it not?

If we can't perform well while we're in the rebulding stages, then we'll never be able to perform well, because we're always at the rebuilding stage.

[Bobby's Cinema]

We had no intention to win that game yesterday. We sat there, on our own 18yard line and waited to concede and lose that game. The way we set out is a disgrace. That is why people are unhappy.

It does not have to be this way. Honest

[God Petrie]

We play pish football that seems to be getting OK results on the whole.

Watching this club die is just hyperbolic drivel from blackpool as usual.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is that what this is? The "rebuilding" stage?

Funny, because I thought every SPL club was in a constant state of rebuilding anyway. It's a buy/sell league is it not?

If we can't perform well while we're in the rebulding stages, then we'll never be able to perform well, because we're always at the rebuilding stage.

What you think isn't necessarily fact. :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

We had no intention to win that game yesterday. We sat there, on our own 18yard line and waited to concede and lose that game. The way we set out is a disgrace. That is why people are unhappy.

It does not have to be this way. Honest

How many people have you asked?

[hibsbollah]

What targets are these? I got the impression that failure to set targets was one of the main frustrations about the board.

Is it maybe the case that the targets imagined by some fans don't match the boards actual targets?

Two league cups in 22 years, three Scottish Cup finals in 13, numerous semi finals and a solvent club would be a dream for most clubs outside the OF. Those that have had higher expectations have usually failed to achieve long term success, or financial stability.

Yes, it's grim now. Not as grim as the 80s, or I'm guessing many other decades in the last 136 years. And, I don't think it's any more grim for us than for other clubs.

The 80s were definitely worse. I gave up watching Hibs during the 23 in a row. Williamson was worse. Calderwood was worse. Hughes and Mixu's tenures were about equally bad as now. A lot of Millers era was eye bleeding as well. In the 'tache era (1997-forever), i could count the really fun seasons (Sauzee and Latapy under Eck, Mowbrays two seasons, most of Collins first season) on one hand.

[Phil D. Rolls]

At this point I'd like to issue a precautionary LTYF. I have no evidence for trolling, but in the spirit if the thread, I can say that everyone knows they are at the heart of all this.

NO FACTS WHATSOEVER

[blackpoolhibs]

We play pish football that seems to be getting OK results on the whole.

Watching this club die is just hyperbolic drivel from blackpool as usual.

Thank you. :faf:

[Phil D. Rolls]

The 80s were definitely worse. I gave up watching Hibs during the 23 in a row. Williamson was worse. Calderwood was worse. Hughes and Mixu's tenures were about equally bad as now. A lot of Millers era was eye bleeding as well. In the 'tache era (1997-forever), i could count the really fun seasons (Sauzee and Latapy under Eck, Mowbrays two seasons, most of Collins first season) on one hand.

What frustrates me is that we should have been ready for the demise of the Financial Dopers. We seem to continue to muddle along.

It isn't what's keeping me from games though.

[Bobby's Cinema]

How many people have you asked?

I don't get the attitude. Of course I'm not claiming to speak for everyone

[number 27]

What targets are these? I got the impression that failure to set targets was one of the main frustrations about the board.

Is it maybe the case that the targets imagined by some fans don't match the boards actual targets?

Two league cups in 22 years, three Scottish Cup finals in 13, numerous semi finals and a solvent club would be a dream for most clubs outside the OF. Those that have had higher expectations have usually failed to achieve long term success, or financial stability.

Yes, it's grim now. Not as grim as the 80s, or I'm guessing many other decades in the last 136 years. And, I don't think it's any more grim for us than for other clubs.


So what you are telling us is that you personally do not sacrifice any time or money to suffer through what is currently being served up but you are still comfortable about criticising the attitudes of those that do. You are also prepared to give us a helpful little lecture telling us that there is really nothing to be upset about.

I would suggest that some of us have been around long enough to have seen plenty of hard times at Hibs and yet still consider this one of our most soul destroying periods ever, and I would also suggest that it is poor form for someone who does not attend games to criticise those who do for not simply lapping up what we are currently having to watch.

[God Petrie]

Thank you. :faf:

Can we close this thread now you got the attention you were craving?

This thread has as much basis on reality as your "tease" in the yams PM board thread did.

[Hibercelona]

What targets are these? I got the impression that failure to set targets was one of the main frustrations about the board.

Is it maybe the case that the targets imagined by some fans don't match the boards actual targets?

Two league cups in 22 years, three Scottish Cup finals in 13, numerous semi finals and a solvent club would be a dream for most clubs outside the OF. Those that have had higher expectations have usually failed to achieve long term success, or financial stability.

Yes, it's grim now. Not as grim as the 80s, or I'm guessing many other decades in the last 136 years. And, I don't think it's any more grim for us than for other clubs.

I honestly couldn't disagree more with any of that.

I don't believe for a second that the board don't set targets. It would be absoulute madness for them not to. What I do think however is that they fail to meet the targets they do set by a long way, so refuse to state publicly what those targets were, to save themselves further embarassment.

3 cups in over 40 years is atrocious for a club of our size. Many Hibs fans seem to forget that despite not being as big and having as many resources as the OF, we have a considerable advantage over most clubs in the league. We have resources that most clubs in the league can only dream about. Teams that still find a way to better us regardless.

I can't comment on the 80s, as obvously I wasn't there. But I have heard from plenty of Hibs fans who say we look even more bland now than we did then. So I guess it's down to opinions.

[blackpoolhibs]

Can we close this thread now you got the attention you were craving?

This thread has as much basis on reality as your "tease" in the yams PM board thread did.

Attention i was craving, stop it i'm blushing now. :faf:

[hibees 7062]

I think it`s not the result so much as the way it was lost that bothers many folks.

We never looked like we wanted to take the game to Aberdeen at any point. Aberdeen seized the game by the scruff of the neck from the very beginning and they looked for the whole game, like they actually gave a monkeys about whether or not they won it or not. We looked half as fast as they did the whole game, we had no width, most of the time we gave the ball away immediately after we won it, we skelped God knows how many desperate last ditch hoofed clearances up into the stand or up the park straight to one of their players and we were chasing shadows for at least the first 30 minutes. Even Beuzelin said that on Hibs TV, and he works for Hibs.

It is this which irritates me. I can take a loss to another team without calling for the manager`s head. You win games, you lose games. That`s how it goes. But if you don`t compete, or look like you are trying to win, if instead your tactics are to try to avoid losing, then you are letting the fans and yourself down and that is never, ever good enough for Hibs.

I find it strange that there`s so many people on this thread defending this. Even if you don`t think sacking PF is the answer, that doesn`t mean you shouldn`t still criticise things you are not happy with. And how could any Hibs fan possibly be happy about the way we played yesterday, never mind the result? At least be honest about it.


:top marksIn a nutshell

[Baldy Foghorn]

We have under achieved year on year, and are now stagnant.

The Club seems to accept mediocrity and has no real direction. We need a Board with real verve and gusto, but we don't have that. STF is 100% behind RP, as he told me in a phone call, and said they were hoping PF could turn things around. That spoke volumes to me, that they are so out of touch with the fans feelings.....

[Phil D. Rolls]

We have under achieved year on year, and are now stagnant.

The Club seems to accept mediocrity and has no real direction. We need a Board with real verve and gusto, but we don't have that. STF is 100% behind RP, as he told me in a phone call, and said they were hoping PF could turn things around. That spoke volumes to me, that they are so out of touch with the fans feelings.....

Stagnant, yet two games away from another final.

[Leith Green]

And even more when we win. Think about it. :wink:

You just contradicted yourself there?

[kentao]

Stagnant, yet two games away from another final.
How did the last 2 finals go? Oh aye we surrendered them without a wimper aswell.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Stagnant, yet two games away from another final.

Do you actually watch Hibs, or just come on here to be facetious?

[Hibercelona]

Stagnant, yet two games away from another final.

Oh. Please stop!! :faf:

[Phil D. Rolls]

You just contradicted yourself there?

Too stupid to work out how as well. :greengrin


How did the last 2 finals go? Oh aye we surrendered them without a wimper aswell.

:hmmm: Yes, you make a compelling argument for surrendering to those cheating Jambis on Wednesday, Mr Clock.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Do you actually watch Hibs, or just come on here to be facetious?

Probably the latter.



Oh. Please stop!! :faf:

Yep, you've beaten me hands down.

[Jack Hackett]

There is a pretty clear co-relation attendance-wise between the kind of football we want to see and what we are getting. Surely Rod has been at the club long enough to understand this?

Average gates steadily increased from just over 9k in 03/04 to 14.5k in 06/07. They have steadily decreased almost back to where they were since then. We lost plenty of games in that Mowbray period, but the crowds kept coming because the football was worth turning up for. I live down south, but got to 5 or 6 games a season back then. I haven't been to ER for close to 3 years now and I don't see that changing in the near future

We are not hertz. Hoofball turns us off and we stop attending. The cheap options employed by Rod have cost the club a lot of money. 5000 extra bums on seats equates to something between £3 to £4 million a season. If the football doesn't improve, the fans will not return

[blackpoolhibs]

Stagnant, yet two games away from another final.

Surely there must be something drastically wrong if as you say, we are only 2 games from a final? I can only speak for the folk i know, and to a man they are bored rigid.

Now as i said earlier, the title is a bit over the top, i should have replaced die with suffer/stagnate or something similar.

Yet here we have folk on a message board and in the pubs and workplace moaning about what they are being served each week.

Hibernian Football Club should always try and entertain, i'm not saying we should be like the bloody Harlem globetrotters, but we have a duty to the supporters to give them some enjoyment for parting with their hard earned money.

I'm not saying we should win every week, i also know winning ugly can be a great result at times too, but there comes a time when you question just why you are bothering when its just been another awful display and you have not enjoyed it again.

Thats why i think folk are moaning here, and not bothering their arse going now.

[hibees 7062]

Stagnant, yet two games away from another final.

And one game to get there :rolleyes:

[Leith Green]

Too stupid to work out how as well. :greengrin



:hmmm: Yes, you make a compelling argument for surrendering to those cheating Jambis on Wednesday, Mr Clock.



You actually didn't if I'm being honest, just fancied an argument wi somebody ... :)

[Hibercelona]

Surely there must be something drastically wrong if as you say, we are only 2 games from a final? I can only speak for the folk i know, and to a man they are bored rigid.

Now as i said earlier, the title is a bit over the top, i should have replaced die with suffer/stagnate or something similar.

Yet here we have folk on a message board and in the pubs and workplace moaning about what they are being served each week.

Hibernian Football Club should always try and entertain, i'm not saying we should be like the bloody Harlem globetrotters, but we have a duty to the supporters to give them some enjoyment for parting with their hard earned money.

I'm not saying we should win every week, i also know winning ugly can be a great result at times too, but there comes a time when you question just why you are bothering when its just been another awful display and you have not enjoyed it again.

Thats why i think folk are moaning here, and not bothering their arse going now.

Exactly BPH. :agree:

It's not the colours, or the badge, or even Easter Road that makes us Hibernian FC. Its our brand of football.

If we're unable to produce the kind of football that lifts the fans off their seats in excitement, then we're becoming something we're not.

Fans will return when Hibs return.

[hibees 7062]

Stagnant, yet two games away from another final.

Wasnt long ago we were 36 wins from the league :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

So what you are telling us is that you personally do not sacrifice any time or money to suffer through what is currently being served up but you are still comfortable about criticising the attitudes of those that do. You are also prepared to give us a helpful little lecture telling us that there is really nothing to be upset about.

I would suggest that some of us have been around long enough to have seen plenty of hard times at Hibs and yet still consider this one of our most soul destroying periods ever, and I would also suggest that it is poor form for someone who does not attend games to criticise those who do for not simply lapping up what we are currently having to watch.

Suffer, soul destroying - get a grip son. Are you being marched to the ground at gun point?

If you read my posts I'm looking for reasons to go back, it's nonsense like you are spouting that keeps me away. I haven't criticised anyone, other than to point out they don't speak for every Hibs fan, and that they maybe need some perspective in life.

Some really sensitive wee souls on here.


I honestly couldn't disagree more with any of that.

I don't believe for a second that the board don't set targets. It would be absoulute madness for them not to. What I do think however is that they fail to meet the targets they do set by a long way, so refuse to state publicly what those targets were, to save themselves further embarassment.

3 cups in over 40 years is atrocious for a club of our size. Many Hibs fans seem to forget that despite not being as big and having as many resources as the OF, we have a considerable advantage over most clubs in the league. We have resources that most clubs in the league can only dream about. Teams that still find a way to better us regardless.

I can't comment on the 80s, as obvously I wasn't there. But I have heard from plenty of Hibs fans who say we look even more bland now than we did then. So I guess it's down to opinions.

Right, you believe they miss the targets - yet you don't know what they are? This is getting Kafkaesque.

Given that the OF have win the vast majority of competitions over 40 years, how do we stack up against other clubs in the same period?

I know there is opinions, but comparing league tables between now and the 80s (saved twice by reconstruction btw) - we are probably better.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You actually didn't if I'm being honest, just fancied an argument wi somebody ... :)

No you didn't.

[Paisley Hibby]

Why should I accept that Aberdeen are better than us?

How long has McIness had to shape his team?

How long has Fenlon had to shape his?

As for moving on, I'd f***ing love to. Just need to sack Fenlon so we can start.

Spot on. And I'd imagine Fenlon has had as much (if not more) money to spend as McInnes. Like many others, I'll not be renewing my season ticket until Fenlon has gone.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Surely there must be something drastically wrong if as you say, we are only 2 games from a final? I can only speak for the folk i know, and to a man they are bored rigid.

Now as i said earlier, the title is a bit over the top, i should have replaced die with suffer/stagnate or something similar.

Yet here we have folk on a message board and in the pubs and workplace moaning about what they are being served each week.

Hibernian Football Club should always try and entertain, i'm not saying we should be like the bloody Harlem globetrotters, but we have a duty to the supporters to give them some enjoyment for parting with their hard earned money.

I'm not saying we should win every week, i also know winning ugly can be a great result at times too, but there comes a time when you question just why you are bothering when its just been another awful display and you have not enjoyed it again.

Thats why i think folk are moaning here, and not bothering their arse going now.

I keep saying, I'm talking from a personal perspective. By the way, I've never been to Hyperbole, but I'd consider it before spending hard earned at Easter Road these days. :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

I keep saying, I'm talking from a personal perspective. By the way, I've never been to Hyperbole, but I'd consider it before spending hard earned at Easter Road these days. :greengrin


:aok:

[Hibercelona]

Right, you believe they miss the targets - yet you don't know what they are? This is getting Kafkaesque.

Given that the OF have win the vast majority of competitions over 40 years, how do we stack up against other clubs in the same period?

I know there is opinions, but comparing league tables between now and the 80s (saved twice by reconstruction btw) - we are probably better.

Ok. So in your mind, the board just don't set any targets? Ok

As for how we stack up against other clubs in the same time period. It would only be fair to compare ourselves to Aberdeen due to them being the most similar in terms of size and resources.

Aberdeen have won 11 cups in that last 40 years. Including a European Cup and European Super cup. (4 League Cups, 5 Scottish Cups)

We may be better. Or the standards of other clubs may simply be worse.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Ok. So in your mind, the board just don't set any targets? Ok

As for how we stack up against other clubs in the same time period. It would only be fair to compare ourselves to Aberdeen due to them being the most similar in terms of size and resources.

Aberdeen have won 11 cups in that last 40 years. Including a European Cup and European Super cup. (4 League Cups, 5 Scottish Cups)

We may be better. Or the standards of other clubs may simply be worse.

WTF is it with all the psychoanalysts on here today? I was asking you how you know they have missed targets, when you don't know what they are. How does hat stack up to me not believing they set targets?

Please tell me how you know they have missed a target, when they haven't stated what the target was.

Yes, it would be really nice to do what Ferguson did at Aberdeen, whilst Celtic were regrouping post Stein, and Rangers were building their ground. Do you have any other examples of clubs of a similar size to us, that have come close to what Aberdeen did?

[Hibercelona]

WTF is it with all the psychoanalysts on here today? I was asking you how you know they have missed targets, when you don't know what they are. How does hat stack up to me not believing they set targets?

Please tell me how you know they have missed a target, when they haven't stated what the target was.

Well put it this way. I highly doubt their target would be "just avoiding relegation". It would also be nice to think that their target would be finishing above the clubs that we have a size and resource advantage over.

It's generally the aim of every business to ensure they're ahead of the smaller businesses who are in direct competition with them.

We don't manage this. So using common sense, it's easy to assume that targets in the boardroom are not being met.

You don't have to be spoon fed information. Sometimes you can work it out yourself.


Yes, it would be really nice to do what Ferguson did at Aberdeen, whilst Celtic were regrouping post Stein, and Rangers were building their ground. Do you have any other examples of clubs of a similar size to us, that have come close to what Aberdeen did?

The only other team thats similar to us in terms of size and resources are Hearts. But they've been a financially doped club, so I didn't include them in the comparason.

[Hibercelona]

Once again, can I launch a prophylactic LTYF. It's a bit like garlic and vampires - better safe than sorry.

:fishin:

[Jones28]

How many people have you asked?

Watching it yesterday it was obvious.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Well put it this way. I highly doubt their target would be "just avoiding relegation". It would also be nice to think that their target would be finishing above the clubs that we have a size and resource advantage over.

It's generally the aim of every business to ensure they're ahead of the smaller businesses who are in direct competition with them.

We don't manage this. So using common sense, it's easy to assume that targets in the boardroom are not being met.

You don't have to be spoon fed information. Sometimes you can work it out yourself.



The only other team thats similar to us in terms of size and resources are Hearts. But they've been a financially doped club, so I didn't include them in the comparason.

Yes, you can work it out and you can get it wrong too. What you can't do is go confusing what you think with what you know. Your whole argument about Hibs success, or failure, is based on your assumption that you know what the board has set out to achieve.

If you were to say the club aren't meeting your ambitions, that would be honest. Instead, you are saying the board are not achieving what they set out to do. That, to me is unfair.

I think your comment about Hearts illustrates my point about realistic ambitions. They have only managed success by making the club a basket case. I wonder if the board have been working very hard to square the circle of success on the pitch, with financial security off it.

Anyway, I'm not sure where this argument is going. You have a right to moan if you want. As I've said before though, it isn't just a pisspoor team that keeps fans away.

[Hibercelona]

Yes, you can work it out and you can get it wrong too. What you can't do is go confusing what you think with what you know. Your whole argument about Hibs success, or failure, is based on your assumption that you know what the board has set out to achieve.

If you were to say the club aren't meeting your ambitions, that would be honest. Instead, you are saying the board are not achieving what they set out to do. That, to me is unfair.

I think your comment about Hearts illustrates my point about realistic ambitions. They have only managed success by making the club a basket case. I wonder if the board have been working very hard to square the circle of success on the pitch, with financial security off it.

Anyway, I'm not sure where this argument is going. You have a right to moan if you want. As I've said before though, it isn't just a pisspoor team that keeps fans away.

I don't think its unfair at all.

If this is what the board have set out to achieve, then you can count me out.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't think its unfair at all.

If this is what the board have set out to achieve, then you can count me out.

:aok:

It doesn't get any easier by the way. :greengrin

[number 27]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;3781399]Suffer, soul destroying - get a grip son. Are you being marched to the ground at gun point?

If you read my posts I'm looking for reasons to go back, it's nonsense like you are spouting that keeps me away. I haven't criticised anyone, other than to point out they don't speak for every Hibs fan, and that they maybe need some perspective in life.

Some really sensitive wee souls on here.


Actually I did read your post, you stated you would not go to games because of what you would hear from fans around you, that's a criticism wouldn't you say?

As for not going to games because of language like I used in my post- get over yourself you drama queen.

Some right condescending pricks on here.

[silverhibee]

After all the time that he has been in charge, I still don't know the style of football that Pat Fenlon wants his teams to play. What we see is largely awful with the wee glimpses here and there of decent stuff.

Never mind style, i don't think he even knows what his starting 11 is yet.

[woody47]

I'm afraid PF just doesn't do it for me.

Wrong set up to start and doesn't seem to have any real plan B if plan A doesn't work although watching some of the play I am not sure if he even has a plan A.

We may have only lost 1 in 9 prior to yesterday but the football has been dire and we have scraped through with a lot of luck eg Partick game where they outplayed us for most of the game and if they had had a decent forward we would have been hammered.

We have probably spent more over the last few seasons than any club outside the bigot brothers but cant even get into the top 6.

Sorry but we just do not seem to be improving, just spending more.

[Phil D. Rolls]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;3781399]Suffer, soul destroying - get a grip son. Are you being marched to the ground at gun point?

If you read my posts I'm looking for reasons to go back, it's nonsense like you are spouting that keeps me away. I haven't criticised anyone, other than to point out they don't speak for every Hibs fan, and that they maybe need some perspective in life.

Some really sensitive wee souls on here.


Actually I did read your post, you stated you would not go to games because of what you would hear from fans around you, that's a criticism wouldn't you say?

As for not going to games because of language like I used in my post- get over yourself you drama queen.

Some right condescending pricks on here.

It's the reason I don't go. That's all.

[silverhibee]

The thing that is putting me off returning to ER is not the state of the club. It is the state of a minority of fans.

Is it something to do with there dress sense. :confused:

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;3781399]Suffer, soul destroying - get a grip son. Are you being marched to the ground at gun point?

If you read my posts I'm looking for reasons to go back, it's nonsense like you are spouting that keeps me away. I haven't criticised anyone, other than to point out they don't speak for every Hibs fan, and that they maybe need some perspective in life.

Some really sensitive wee souls on here.


Actually I did read your post, you stated you would not go to games because of what you would hear from fans around you, that's a criticism wouldn't you say?

As for not going to games because of language like I used in my post- get over yourself you drama queen.

Some right condescending pricks on here.


After a couple of hundred posts and comments like that you deserve to be patronized.


:greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is it something to do with there dress sense. :confused:

:greengrin

No, that would just be jealousy.

[silverhibee]

So the Dons didn't have more possession and more shots on goal? Must have been to a different game to Miller yesterday. We were ***** and only defended well to stop the Dons scoring more.

Did we have a shot on goal yesterday that was on target. :aok:

[silverhibee]

Ffs the overreactions on here to every single defeat are becoming tiresome. ..for those who don't want to support the club...well don't!! Yes we were poor yest but we are hibs, not bloody barca and we have no divine right to win every week!!

And Aberdeen are no Real Madrid, so we should be at least competing against them at home.

[silverhibee]

And no im not fenlons biggest fan neither before I get accussed if being a happy clapper!!

Happy Clapper :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

We're a little bit confused as a support right now.

On one hand, people know we need stability, and want PF to succeed, as he's a personable guy, who clearly cares about the club.

On the other, we know that he probably isn't going to, and hate his brand of football.

As a result, every victory and defeat produce massive overreactions. We were on for 2nd place and handing Hearts the pumping of a lifetime a few days ago, now we're swiftly going to follow them down the toilet.

To get perspective, you need to look at results. The board have obviously backed PF till the end of the season. Fine. I doubt very much whether he can improve those results, and get us playing watchable football again, given the past is the best predictor of future behaviour. So I'm going to do what I've basically been doing since Mowbray/Early Collins/Early Hughes, and not 'never go back' or 'back them to hilt', but do what most people do and support them pursuant with my substantial but severely tested loyalty, and my crumbling expectations, which means right now, not a lot.

I think it's a brave decision by the board to back and keep Fenlon. I don't fancy another guy coming in now with the excuse 'he has to build his own team' and we're back in transition. Fenlon has put together a half-decent squad (by SPL standards). I'd like more width, pace and creativity, yes, but I'd like him to get the best out of this team. Is he capable of doing so? I personally doubt it. But we've had so much instability, I'm reluctantly prepared to tough it out till the end of the season.

[silverhibee]

For some of us football is an alternative to going to the cinema. Maybe we are less ambitious people, or fulfill our ambitions elsewhere, or maybe we see it as just a game and aren't that serious about it.

In the old days of terracing you could move away from people you disagreed with. Now you are forced to listen to them week in, week out.

What I am saying is that it isnt always results, or style of play that keeps people away. Sometimes it's the anger and the insanity - some people get enough of that in their real lives, without having to put up with it when they are trying to relax.

I'm not telling anyone what to do, just pointing out that the solutions aren't always as simple as they think.


Pick any stand you want at ER, if there is people you disagree with you can move to another part of that stand to get away from these folk, there is plenty spaces to do so in the stands to move away from folk who have a different opinion from yours.

[Hibrandenburg]

Well **** me, ain't there a lot of Greta Garbos on here.Find it funny that it's the same folks who point at the Yams for being arrogant Billy Bigboots and then then explain their reasoning for being pissed of at Hibs is because we are bigger than the teams that beat us and claim we should be a top 4 team every season. I'm nearly 50 and in my lifetime Hibs have won 3 measly league cups, if you can't accept mediocrity then why the **** follow Hibs. Following Hibs has rarely been joyous but when it is its ****ing magic and when it's not it's dismal and always has been. We're a mediocre team in a mediocre league, live with it!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Pick any stand you want at ER, if there is people you disagree with you can move to another part of that stand to get away from these folk, there is plenty spaces to do so in the stands to move away from folk who have a different opinion from yours.

I can't think of a more reasonable argument than that. I will, probably on Wednesday, but it doesn't sound like a fun place to be at the moment.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Well **** me, ain't there a lot of Greta Garbos on here.Find it funny that it's the same folks who point at the Yams for being arrogant Billy Bigboots and then then explain their reasoning for being pissed of at Hibs is because we are bigger than the teams that beat us and claim we should be a top 4 team every season. I'm nearly 50 and in my lifetime Hibs have won 3 measly league cups, if you can't accept mediocrity then why the **** follow Hibs. Following Hibs has rarely been joyous but when it is its ****ing magic and when it's not it's dismal and always has been. We're a mediocre team in a mediocre league, live with it!

So we should just put up with it then??

Maybe Hibs could use the last sentence highlighted, on their merchandise and put it on the walls of the dressing room:rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

So we should just put up with it then??

Maybe Hibs could use the last sentence highlighted, on their merchandise and put it on the walls of the dressing room:rolleyes:

Is that you Rod?

[SunshineOnLeith]

I fear for the mental health of some of our fan base. Hibs lost a league match yesterday, it happens. Some of the wailing and hysteria about the state of the club is beyond parody.

[Aldo]

Well **** me, ain't there a lot of Greta Garbos on here.Find it funny that it's the same folks who point at the Yams for being arrogant Billy Bigboots and then then explain their reasoning for being pissed of at Hibs is because we are bigger than the teams that beat us and claim we should be a top 4 team every season. I'm nearly 50 and in my lifetime Hibs have won 3 measly league cups, if you can't accept mediocrity then why the **** follow Hibs. Following Hibs has rarely been joyous but when it is its ****ing magic and when it's not it's dismal and always has been. We're a mediocre team in a mediocre league, live with it!

Booooo. :-d
(No stating the obvious please. That's just too sensible.)

[Phil D. Rolls]

I fear for the mental health of some of our fan base. Hibs lost a league match yesterday, it happens. Some of the wailing and hysteria about the state of the club is beyond parody.

I fear for mine, I'm going back.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I fear for the mental health of some of our fan base. Hibs lost a league match yesterday, it happens. Some of the wailing and hysteria about the state of the club is beyond parody.

Yes, because it is all based on Yesterday right enough:rolleyes:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Is that you Rod?

No, I'm STF

[greenpaper55]

Well **** me, ain't there a lot of Greta Garbos on here.Find it funny that it's the same folks who point at the Yams for being arrogant Billy Bigboots and then then explain their reasoning for being pissed of at Hibs is because we are bigger than the teams that beat us and claim we should be a top 4 team every season. I'm nearly 50 and in my lifetime Hibs have won 3 measly league cups, if you can't accept mediocrity then why the **** follow Hibs. Following Hibs has rarely been joyous but when it is its ****ing magic and when it's not it's dismal and always has been. We're a mediocre team in a mediocre league, live with it!

There are degrees of mediocrity and we must be near the bottom of that scale right now, i would rather watch Mowbrey or Collins mediocrity than the gash that is being served up now and i think if you look at the crowd figures from their time many others thought the same.

[Hibrandenburg]

So we should just put up with it then??

Maybe Hibs could use the last sentence highlighted, on their merchandise and put it on the walls of the dressing room:rolleyes:

Put up with it has got nothing to do with it. We are what we are and some folks on here just need to accept this.

[Keith_M]

We're a mediocre team in a mediocre league, live with it!


Surely we should be aspiring to much more?

I'm not of the view that yesterday's defeat is suddenly the end of the world, it's still just one game, but we're really underperforming for a club of our size. There is no Rangers and a decimated Hearts, now's the time to establish ourselves in the top 3 or 4 every season, at least until they're both back.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Put up with it has got nothing to do with it. We are what we are and some folks on here just need to accept this.

Put up with it is exactly the same as having to accept we are what we are.........We should be much better than we are or have been.....

[Hibercelona]

I can't think of a more reasonable argument than that. I will, probably on Wednesday, but it doesn't sound like a fun place to be at the moment.

Thats because its not. Its an absolutely dire place to be at the moment.

But you can't say its the attitude of the fans that are to blame. Despite the over-reactions of us winning or losing here on Hibs.net, a vast majority of fans that turn up to ER on match day have been backing the team to the hilt, only to be let down yet again by another non-performance. Sure, you'll get the drunks in the stands hurling abuse at absolutely everything, but you'll find that at any football ground.

It'll take more than a paper over the crack result to put the smiles back on peoples faces. Fans want to leave Easter Road, feeling that they've been entertained.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Yes, because it is all based on Yesterday right enough:rolleyes:


Ok, let's deal with the wider picture. Hibs are a bit rubbish at the moment. If history is any guide, we'll go on to recover and be quite good, then be average for a while, then rubbish again. But we're still going to have a team to support regardless of where in that cycle we are at any given time.

Yes, we'd all like it if Hibs were consistently good, but the fact it's not happening really doesn't merit such a vitriolic response.

[DaveF]

Strangely enough Willie Miller, reckoned the teams were pretty much deadlocked, and that it would take: a) a mistake, or b) a moment of brilliance to break the deadlock. As it happened, it was both.

Well unlike you, I was at the game and it was nothing like Mr Miller described it. The goal was coming and there was only ever one team going - and trying - to win it.

[Hibercelona]

I fear for the mental health of some of our fan base. Hibs lost a league match yesterday, it happens. Some of the wailing and hysteria about the state of the club is beyond parody.

If we had played football yesterday and lost, do you think people would be as disappointed as they are right now?

Fans aren't reacting to the result, they're reacting to the way we've been setting out under Fenlon. Which goes against what this club is about.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Well unlike you, I was at the game and it was nothing like Mr Miller described it. The goal was coming and there was only ever one team going - and trying - to win it.

Never liked the man anyway. As I said, you get a false impression watching the game on radio.

[blackpoolhibs]

Ok, let's deal with the wider picture. Hibs are a bit rubbish at the moment. If history is any guide, we'll go on to recover and be quite good, then be average for a while, then rubbish again. But we're still going to have a team to support regardless of where in that cycle we are at any given time.

Yes, we'd all like it if Hibs were consistently good, but the fact it's not happening really doesn't merit such a vitriolic response.

Why do we have to deal with the wider picture? Circumstances change, and ours certainly have, the foundations were laid so we could prosper on the park, or so we were told.

We are now witnessing some of the worst football in my lifetime watching the club, so much so i don't bother my arse now.

I know we play Hearts on Wednesday, but couldn't tell you who we play next Saturday. I wonder if i'm alone in that?

Apathy is quickly setting in, prices are rising, people are prioritising, folk want more for their money.

Ignore this at your peril.

[Phil D. Rolls]

No, I'm STF

Bummer about that Da Vinci code, eh Tom?


Thats because its not. Its an absolutely dire place to be at the moment.

But you can't say its the attitude of the fans that are to blame. Despite the over-reactions of us winning or losing here on Hibs.net, a vast majority of fans that turn up to ER on match day have been backing the team to the hilt, only to be let down yet again by another non-performance. Sure, you'll get the drunks in the stands hurling abuse at absolutely everything, but you'll find that at any football ground.

It'll take more than a paper over the crack result to put the smiles back on peoples faces. Fans want to leave Easter Road, feeling that they've been entertained.

I don't have the answers to anything except what I think. I think it's time I found out for myself, instead of reading Hibs.net.

[Hibrandenburg]

There are degrees of mediocrity and we must be near the bottom of that scale right now, i would rather watch Mowbrey or Collins mediocrity than the gash that is being served up now and i think if you look at the crowd figures from their time many others thought the same.

It's all relative, I remember watching Turnbull's Tornadoes and you could have drove a battle tank through the crowd they were so sparsely spread.

I don't get to many games for geographical reasons but if I did I'd be going to support the team that I identify myself with first and foremost and secondly for entertainment. If entertainment is you're main priority then maybe Blobby was right. I'll say it again "we're a mediocre team in a mediocre league", adjust your expectations accordingly.

[hibsbollah]

Put up with it is exactly the same as having to accept we are what we are.........We should be much better than we are or have been.....

Noones saying that. Personally im just asking for a grasp of historical perspective. Reading some posts on here youd think we were a wonderfully managed outfit before Paddy arrived and spoiled it all.

[Onion]

And Aberdeen are no Real Madrid, so we should be at least competing against them at home.

We stood off them and tried to defend as if they were Real. Yesterday should have been a tight, hard fought match between two sides shooting for a win that would set them up well in the league. What I saw was one team with a clear game plan and desire to win the match and another trying to hold them back. The Dons were streets ahead of Hibs and our approach was a disgrace. Anyone who saw that can understand why we've only won 2 home league games in 2013.

[Hibercelona]

I don't have the answers to anything except what I think. I think it's time I found out for myself, instead of reading Hibs.net.

Then I wish you good luck with your venture into the dead zone. :wink:

I'll be making the journey myself. Hopefully we both come out of it as better people. :cb

[Baldy Foghorn]

Noones saying that. Personally im just asking for a grasp of historical perspective. Reading some posts on here youd think we were a wonderfully managed outfit before Paddy arrived and spoiled it all.

Hiberlin said that

[Hibrandenburg]

Put up with it is exactly the same as having to accept we are what we are.........We should be much better than we are or have been.....

There's a subtle difference between putting up with something and accepting something for what it is. Once you've accepted it you no longer have to put up with it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

There's a subtle difference between putting up with something and accepting something for what it is. Once you've accepted it you no longer have to put up with it.

Why should we accept mediocrity?

[Hibercelona]

It's all relative, I remember watching Turnbull's Tornadoes and you could have drove a battle tank through the crowd they were so sparsely spread.

I don't get to many games for geographical reasons but if I did I'd be going to support the team that I identify myself with first and foremost and secondly for entertainment. If entertainment is you're main priority then maybe Blobby was right. I'll say it again "we're a mediocre team in a mediocre league", adjust your expectations accordingly.

We're a rather large team in a mediocre league, that plays mediocre football at best, and is often bettered by mediocre teams.

I identify myself with Hibs through the brand of football that they play. If they're unable to string a few passes together, then i'm going to have a hard time identifying myself with them.

[The Falcon]

So we are now on the 6th page of a thread complaining about the quality of the play yesterday started by a man who chooses not to go therefore wasnt there. That about right?

[Hibrandenburg]

So we should just put up with it then??

Maybe Hibs could use the last sentence highlighted, on their merchandise and put it on the walls of the dressing room:rolleyes:

Put up with it has got nothing to do with it. We are what we are and some folks on here just need to accept this.

[blackpoolhibs]

So we are now on the 6th page of a thread complaining about the quality of the play yesterday started by a man who chooses not to go therefore wasnt there. That about right?

Wrong?

[Hibercelona]

Put up with it has got nothing to do with it. We are what we are and some folks on here just need to accept this.

Thats the thing through, we aren't.

Fans turn up to Easter Road expecting to see Hibs. What we're seeing at the moment isn't Hibs at all. Far from it.

[weecounty hibby]

Why do we have to deal with the wider picture? Circumstances change, and ours certainly have, the foundations were laid so we could prosper on the park, or so we were told.

We are now witnessing some of the worst football in my lifetime watching the club, so much so i don't bother my arse now.

I know we play Hearts on Wednesday, but couldn't tell you who we play next Saturday. I wonder if i'm alone in that?

Apathy is quickly setting in, prices are rising, people are prioritising, folk want more for their money.

Ignore this at your peril.
You are 8 years older than me so will be able to remeber the TTs better than me. BUT the bit highlighted I can't believe. The end of ETs time, Bertie Auld, Pat Stanton, John Blackley Alex Miller most of the time, Colin Calderwood, Bobby Williamson, Jim Duffy, Mixu, Yogi. These guys all have had at least as bad a time as Fenlon has and at times the football was dreadful then as well.
I hardly missed a game home and away during the 80s and 90s but times have changed. Back then I didn't care if Hibs were good, bad or indifferent I went cos they were my team and it didn't cost the earth to attend matches. Nowadays it is different, people will pick and choose their forms of entertainment and football isn't high on value for money.
My daughter has asked me if she can go to a game as she hasn't been before and she wants to go as her brother does. She has a disability so that means I will need to take my wife as well to help look after her. In all I will have to fork out for two adult and two kids tickets and then buy food and drink. That will be a £100 day out at least and you know what, I find that hard to justify when energy prices are rising by 10%, Christmas is around the corner and the cost of living just gets higher and higher. I don't think it is just the way we are playing but a whole load of things that are effecting crowds.
Football in Scotland as a whole is dying on its arse and it is down to so many different things and its not just Hibs that need to look at what and how we are doing things.
Bit of a rambling post and a bit of topic but everyone else is talking pish so I thought I may as well join in!!

[The Falcon]

Wrong?

I stand corrected.

Its all the games over the season that you havent been to?

[Hibercelona]

I stand corrected.

Its all the games over the season that you havent been to?

I'm sure if he had been to all of the games, he'd think we were great.

[The Falcon]

You are 8 years older than me so will be able to remeber the TTs better than me. BUT the bit highlighted I can't believe. The end of ETs time, Bertie Auld, Pat Stanton, John Blackley Alex Miller most of the time, Colin Calderwood, Bobby Williamson, Jim Duffy, Mixu, Yogi. These guys all have had at least as bad a time as Fenlon has and at times the football was dreadful then as well.


Spot on. I remember both Turnbull and Stanton getting dogs abuse. The abuse aimed at ET was particularly dissapointing.

[The Falcon]

I'm sure if he had been to all of the games, he'd think we were great.

Who is claiming we are great?

[blackpoolhibs]

You are 8 years older than me so will be able to remeber the TTs better than me. BUT the bit highlighted I can't believe. The end of ETs time, Bertie Auld, Pat Stanton, John Blackley Alex Miller most of the time, Colin Calderwood, Bobby Williamson, Jim Duffy, Mixu, Yogi. These guys all have had at least as bad a time as Fenlon has and at times the football was dreadful then as well.
I hardly missed a game home and away during the 80s and 90s but times have changed. Back then I didn't care if Hibs were good, bad or indifferent I went cos they were my team and it didn't cost the earth to attend matches. Nowadays it is different, people will pick and choose their forms of entertainment and football isn't high on value for money.
My daughter has asked me if she can go to a game as she hasn't been before and she wants to go as her brother does. She has a disability so that means I will need to take my wife as well to help look after her. In all I will have to fork out for two adult and two kids tickets and then buy food and drink. That will be a £100 day out at least and you know what, I find that hard to justify when energy prices are rising by 10%, Christmas is around the corner and the cost of living just gets higher and higher. I don't think it is just the way we are playing but a whole load of things that are effecting crowds.
Football in Scotland as a whole is dying on its arse and it is down to so many different things and its not just Hibs that need to look at what and how we are doing things.
Bit of a rambling post and a bit of topic but everyone else is talking pish so I thought I may as well join in!!

I'd say the Bertie Auld football was the worst i witnessed, that was a man who put his side out to draw games, and if we won it was a huge bonus.

And the football was awful to watch, and in my opinion like the stuff we are getting now.

I agree with you on lots of what you have written, and it does boil down to how expensive it is for more and more folk, thats why whats on show has to be better.

[blackpoolhibs]

I stand corrected.

Its all the games over the season that you havent been to?

Correct.

[The Falcon]

Correct.

:greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

We're a rather large team in a mediocre league, that plays mediocre football at best, and is often bettered by mediocre teams.

I identify myself with Hibs through the brand of football that they play. If they're unable to string a few passes together, then i'm going to have a hard time identifying myself with them.

We're mediocre, take a look at our trophy cabinet and you'll see it's not exactly bursting with silverware collected since 1875. We've had a few highlights since our beginnings but averaged out over nearly a century and a half its mediocre at best. Where are we getting these delusions of grandeur? We've a proud history and as underdogs we've overcome many adversaries stamped our place in history on several occasions, however when it comes to actually having football success we've not exactly set the heather alight.

As for identifying yourself with Hibs for the brand of football they play, well I'd suspect you're part of a minority with the majority being like me and having identified themselves as Hibbies long before they even saw Hibs actually kick a ball.

[Hibrandenburg]

You are 8 years older than me so will be able to remeber the TTs better than me. BUT the bit highlighted I can't believe. The end of ETs time, Bertie Auld, Pat Stanton, John Blackley Alex Miller most of the time, Colin Calderwood, Bobby Williamson, Jim Duffy, Mixu, Yogi. These guys all have had at least as bad a time as Fenlon has and at times the football was dreadful then as well.
I hardly missed a game home and away during the 80s and 90s but times have changed. Back then I didn't care if Hibs were good, bad or indifferent I went cos they were my team and it didn't cost the earth to attend matches. Nowadays it is different, people will pick and choose their forms of entertainment and football isn't high on value for money.
My daughter has asked me if she can go to a game as she hasn't been before and she wants to go as her brother does. She has a disability so that means I will need to take my wife as well to help look after her. In all I will have to fork out for two adult and two kids tickets and then buy food and drink. That will be a £100 day out at least and you know what, I find that hard to justify when energy prices are rising by 10%, Christmas is around the corner and the cost of living just gets higher and higher. I don't think it is just the way we are playing but a whole load of things that are effecting crowds.
Football in Scotland as a whole is dying on its arse and it is down to so many different things and its not just Hibs that need to look at what and how we are doing things.
Bit of a rambling post and a bit of topic but everyone else is talking pish so I thought I may as well join in!!

Don't put your post down, I thought you raised s few valid points and if you now feel better for getting it off your chest, well.......

[Hibercelona]

We're mediocre, take a look at our trophy cabinet and you'll see it's not exactly bursting with silverware collected since 1875. We've had a few highlights since our beginnings but averaged out over nearly a century and a half its mediocre at best. Where are we getting these delusions of grandeur? We've a proud history and as underdogs we've overcome many adversaries stamped our place in history on several occasions, however when it comes to actually having football success we've not exactly set the heather alight.

As for identifying yourself with Hibs for the brand of football they play, well I'd suspect you're part of a minority with the majority being like me and having identified themselves as Hibbies long before they even saw Hibs actually kick a ball.

Like I said, Hibs are a team that generally play mediocre football. That doesn't however mean that we should be playing mediocre football.

In terms of our size and resources, we're clearly not mediocre and are one of the bigger clubs in the top league. We just perform mediocrely, because far too many people in the fanbase accept this as the way it should be.

I identified myself with the colours and the badges. But I didn't identify myself with "Hibs" until I witnessed my first game.

[The Falcon]

I'd say the Bertie Auld football was the worst i witnessed, that was a man who put his side out to draw games, and if we won it was a huge bonus.

And the football was awful to watch, and in my opinion like the stuff we are getting now.

I agree with you on lots of what you have written, and it does boil down to how expensive it is for more and more folk, thats why whats on show has to be better.

:agree:

[JCHibby]

At this moment in time I hope that they are looking for our next manager and putting things in place to turn things around.

This season is dragging out due to the painful viewing and lack of football being attempted by this team of decent enough players.

Even when we have grabbed a result the football being played has been off poor quality.

I feel for Pat as I genuinely believe that he cares for Hibs so much but just doesn't have it, have nothing bad to say about him as he is a true gent.

I would love Hibs to take a gamble with Mark Venus and Boozy as the management team, would love JC back also but that will never happen with Rod still there.

I just hope the board are doing their job and already putting things in motion for the next chapter.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Spot on. I remember both Turnbull and Stanton getting dogs abuse. The abuse aimed at ET was particularly dissapointing.

I remember him responding with his catchphrase, too. I don't think Ned would have had a twitter account for long.

[Emerald]

I'd say the Bertie Auld football was the worst i witnessed, that was a man who put his side out to draw games, and if we won it was a huge bonus.

And the football was awful to watch, and in my opinion like the stuff we are getting now.

I agree with you on lots of what you have written, and it does boil down to how expensive it is for more and more folk, thats why whats on show has to be better.

It was good banker for the coupon every week though. :greengrin

[Crossgates Hibs]

Why do we have to deal with the wider picture? Circumstances change, and ours certainly have, the foundations were laid so we could prosper on the park, or so we were told.

We are now witnessing some of the worst football in my lifetime watching the club, so much so i don't bother my arse now.

I know we play Hearts on Wednesday, but couldn't tell you who we play next Saturday. I wonder if i'm alone in that?

Apathy is quickly setting in, prices are rising, people are prioritising, folk want more for their money.

Ignore this at your peril.


100% agree with this I find myself making excuses not to go where before under Collins and Mobray I was taking flights to watch us and spending a lot just to get to games. Now I'm less than an hour away and go about the same as I did when I lived far away. This club doesn't deserve the fans that it has and worse still doesn't seem to care about giving its paying customer what they want. I would take Kenny Shiels tomorrow if it meant getting rid of Pat.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Like I said, Hibs are a team that generally play mediocre football. That doesn't however mean that we should be playing mediocre football.

In terms of our size and resources, we're clearly not mediocre and are one of the bigger clubs in the top league. We just perform mediocrely, because far too many people in the fanbase accept this as the way it should be.

I identified myself with the colours and the badges. But I didn't identify myself with "Hibs" until I witnessed my first game.I can't believe posters are having a pop at you for expecting and wanting more than that p!sh we witnessed yesterday.

Anyone at that game would have seen how far we are from having a team that remotely resembles a 'fitba' team.

I don't even know If Aberdeen are really that good but they f'n looked like Real Madrid compared to us!

[Jonnyboy]

What a very strange thread.

Started by a fan who hasn't been for weeks because he hates the dross he'd be watching. To those who criticise him I'd say it's his choice to make and he's probably not alone.

Then we have FR who hasn't been for weeks but 'relies' on radio reports, match highlights and threads on here. All of that leads him to state he doesn't go because he doesn't want to be sitting next to folk who are negative about what they're watching. Once again, it's his choice.

For those of us who have watched week in, week out, home and away I'd argue that the majority have found it hard to take in, although Andy74 might disagree :wink:

Ironically, I see a fair few posters I know, who go almost every week and who have to suffer the 'thin' part of thick and thin, being criticised for over reacting.

Let's be honest, Hibs are not a good side. We have a fair few good players but we are largely dire to watch. That's my opinion but I'd bet I'm not alone.

So to the OP - stop whining from afar and get yer er5e up here to suffer with the rest of us

To FR, stop blaming your non attendance on the fact that you might end up sitting next to a moaning git. You can always shift seat, there's plenty empty ones available

[NAE NOOKIE]

Put up with it has got nothing to do with it. We are what we are and some folks on here just need to accept this.

Harry Swan took Hibs to the dizzy hights of league winners.
Bill Shankly turned a bog standard run of the mill English league team into European Giants
Brian Clough did the same with two unfashionable league clubs
Alex Ferguson massively over achieved with two Scottish clubs
Jim McLean took Dundee Utd to a European cup semi final which they lost because of cheating by Roma.

These are all stand out people in the history of football. I have no idea whatsoever what it was that made them so successful. What the X factor was that enabled them to turn the mediocre into the best ..... I really, really have no idea.

But I tell you what ........... accepting mediocrity wasnt it. I seriously hope to goodness that this isnt the attitude of anybody at Easter Road from the worst player in our under 10 team to our absentee owner.

Sometimes its hard to rise above what you are, sometimes it cant be done no matter how hard you try ...... thats fine. But if you just sit back and accept that its all you can ever be ....... you will never get anywhere.

"We are what we are and some folk on here just need to accept this"


NEVER !!!

[Phil D. Rolls]

What a very strange thread.

Started by a fan who hasn't been for weeks because he hates the dross he'd be watching. To those who criticise him I'd say it's his choice to make and he's probably not alone.

Then we have FR who hasn't been for weeks but 'relies' on radio reports, match highlights and threads on here. All of that leads him to state he doesn't go because he doesn't want to be sitting next to folk who are negative about what they're watching. Once again, it's his choice.

For those of us who have watched week in, week out, home and away I'd argue that the majority have found it hard to take in, although Andy74 might disagree :wink:

Ironically, I see a fair few posters I know, who go almost every week and who have to suffer the 'thin' part of thick and thin, being criticised for over reacting.

Let's be honest, Hibs are not a good side. We have a fair few good players but we are largely dire to watch. That's my opinion but I'd bet I'm not alone.

So to the OP - stop whining from afar and get yer er5e up here to suffer with the rest of us

To FR, stop blaming your non attendance on the fact that you might end up sitting next to a moaning git. You can always shift seat, there's plenty empty ones available

It's good to talk, and I will be back at ER on Wednesday. Do they still sell Golden Goals?

[blackpoolhibs]

What a very strange thread.

Started by a fan who hasn't been for weeks because he hates the dross he'd be watching. To those who criticise him I'd say it's his choice to make and he's probably not alone.

Then we have FR who hasn't been for weeks but 'relies' on radio reports, match highlights and threads on here. All of that leads him to state he doesn't go because he doesn't want to be sitting next to folk who are negative about what they're watching. Once again, it's his choice.

For those of us who have watched week in, week out, home and away I'd argue that the majority have found it hard to take in, although Andy74 might disagree :wink:

Ironically, I see a fair few posters I know, who go almost every week and who have to suffer the 'thin' part of thick and thin, being criticised for over reacting.

Let's be honest, Hibs are not a good side. We have a fair few good players but we are largely dire to watch. That's my opinion but I'd bet I'm not alone.

So to the OP - stop whining from afar and get yer er5e up here to suffer with the rest of us

To FR, stop blaming your non attendance on the fact that you might end up sitting next to a moaning git. You can always shift seat, there's plenty empty ones available

See you on Wednesday John. :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

It's good to talk, and I will be back at ER on Wednesday. Do they still sell Golden Goals?

:greengrin No, and stay away from the pies too :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

See you on Wednesday John. :wink:

You in the East?

[Emerald]

It's good to talk, and I will be back at ER on Wednesday. Do they still sell Golden Goals?

I think they have a golden shower these days when hearts are in town :dunno:

[Phil D. Rolls]

:greengrin No, and stay away from the pies too :wink:

That's just being cruel. :na na:

[blackpoolhibs]

You in the East?


Aye section 42 i think, Moray got the tickets. Its been that long, i'd forgotten how? :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think they have a golden shower these days when hearts are in town :dunno:

Well, judging by what I've read on here, I'll need a Pink Panther to get through the match.

(It's a joke kids, it's neither big nor clever.)

[Emerald]

Well, judging by what I've read on here, I'll need a Pink Panther to get through the match.

(It's a joke kids, it's neither big nor clever.)

You've got me with that one?? :confused:

[nribs]

At this moment in time I hope that they are looking for our next manager and putting things in place to turn things around.

This season is dragging out due to the painful viewing and lack of football being attempted by this team of decent enough players.

Even when we have grabbed a result the football being played has been off poor quality.

I feel for Pat as I genuinely believe that he cares for Hibs so much but just doesn't have it, have nothing bad to say about him as he is a true gent.

I would love Hibs to take a gamble with Mark Venus and Boozy as the management team, would love JC back also but that will never happen with Rod still there.

I just hope the board are doing their job and already putting things in motion for the next chapter.
JC no thanks! Mark Venus I'm sure fancies the B'oro job.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You've got me with that one?? :confused:

Google it, apparently popular with clubbers.

[Emerald]

Google it, apparently popular with clubbers.

No thanks, I just want rid of Fenlon I don't want to club him :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

Aye section 42 i think, Moray got the tickets. Its been that long, i'd forgotten how? :wink:

I'm in 42 also. Up near the back, beside aw the radge singers :greengrin

[jgl07]

What a pathetic moaning bedwetting thread. I usually stay away from Hibs.net after any defeat because the over-the-top reactions and the whining that inevitably follows. I will do in future.

[Leith Green]

No you didn't.

Aye ah did ya donut!

[Phil D. Rolls]

No thanks, I just want rid of Fenlon I don't want to club him :greengrin

:greengrin

[Hibercelona]

What a pathetic moaning bedwetting thread. I usually stay away from Hibs.net after any defeat because the over-the-top reactions and the whining that inevitably follows. I will do in future.

Good job staying away. Look forward to your next contribution. :aok:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Aye ah did ya donut!

A meringue?

[Spike Mandela]

A meringue?

Nah, yer right it's a doughnut.

[Gerard]

:top marks
What a very strange thread.

Started by a fan who hasn't been for weeks because he hates the dross he'd be watching. To those who criticise him I'd say it's his choice to make and he's probably not alone.

Then we have FR who hasn't been for weeks but 'relies' on radio reports, match highlights and threads on here. All of that leads him to state he doesn't go because he doesn't want to be sitting next to folk who are negative about what they're watching. Once again, it's his choice.

For those of us who have watched week in, week out, home and away I'd argue that the majority have found it hard to take in, although Andy74 might disagree :wink:

Ironically, I see a fair few posters I know, who go almost every week and who have to suffer the 'thin' part of thick and thin, being criticised for over reacting.

Let's be honest, Hibs are not a good side. We have a fair few good players but we are largely dire to watch. That's my opinion but I'd bet I'm not alone.

So to the OP - stop whining from afar and get yer er5e up here to suffer with the rest of us

To FR, stop blaming your non attendance on the fact that you might end up sitting next to a moaning git. You can always shift seat, there's plenty empty ones available
:top marks

[weonlywon6-2]

If results go the same way they have been we have fenlon till the summer

[RIP]

Petrie should no longer be judged on his ability to clear debt and build infrastructure. That period in our history ended in 2008-2009.

He needs to be judged on what he has accomplished over the past five years - the vision, the leadership, the product , the balance sheet and the degree of customer satisfaction.

The same five criteria in fact that any other company chairman would be judged against.

[Saorsa]

Petrie should no longer be judged on his ability to clear debt and build infrastructure. That period in our history ended in 2008-2009.

He needs to be judged on what he has accomplished over the past five years - the vision, the leadership, the product and the degree of customer satisfaction.

Every criteria in fact that any other company chairman would be judged against.Epic fail then.

[jakeshibs]

100% agree with this I find myself making excuses not to go where before under Collins and Mobray I was taking flights to watch us and spending a lot just to get to games. Now I'm less than an hour away and go about the same as I did when I lived far away. This club doesn't deserve the fans that it has and worse still doesn't seem to care about giving its paying customer what they want. I would take Kenny Shiels tomorrow if it meant getting rid of Pat.

I would never want KS no matter what, my opinion only :greengrin

[Captain Trips]

I am just not surprised by Hibs anymore, No Rangers, Hearts in severe trouble and we still cannot take advantage. What a fantastic oppertunity the club has and is in process of wasting with bad selections of manager and those selecting.

A bloody disgrace this is.

[Hibercelona]

I am just not surprised by Hibs anymore, No Rangers, Hearts in severe trouble and we still cannot take advantage. What a fantastic oppertunity the club has and is in process of wasting with bad selections of manager and those selecting.

A bloody disgrace this is.

:agree:

Finishing 6th should be considered failure with Rangers and a strong Hearts in the league. Finishing 6th with no Rangers and a severely weakened Hearts in the league, should be considered disaster as far as i'm concerned.

Yet, pushing for top 6 seems to be our major target this season....

[Russ]

So we should just put up with it then??Maybe Hibs could use the last sentence highlighted, on their merchandise and put it on the walls of the dressing room:rolleyes:Maybe 10 seasons apart over our entire history that 'last sentence' would sum Hibs up as a club, and the majority of them were in the 40's and 50's. Where some Hibs fans get their measure of success from I don't know, but it's certainly not our history of winning trophies. My expectations are for a good cup run and a decent league position, in my 50yrs supporting Hibs I have invariably been disappointed, but it has never stopped me going back. There hasn't been a worse time in all my years of going than the 80-90 yrs, the early 80's for the dire football and crowds, and the mid to late 80's for those brutal derbies. Nothing has come remotely close since, no matter what you've heard. Not a pop at you btw.

[Denverhibby]

G. W. D. L. Win%
Hibernian 25 November 2011 Present 85 32 19 34 37.65
Total ,
is his contract up at the end of the season? Is it worth renewing at a 37% win rate?

[Hibrandenburg]

Harry Swan took Hibs to the dizzy hights of league winners.
Bill Shankly turned a bog standard run of the mill English league team into European Giants
Brian Clough did the same with two unfashionable league clubs
Alex Ferguson massively over achieved with two Scottish clubs
Jim McLean took Dundee Utd to a European cup semi final which they lost because of cheating by Roma.

These are all stand out people in the history of football. I have no idea whatsoever what it was that made them so successful. What the X factor was that enabled them to turn the mediocre into the best ..... I really, really have no idea.

But I tell you what ........... accepting mediocrity wasnt it. I seriously hope to goodness that this isnt the attitude of anybody at Easter Road from the worst player in our under 10 team to our absentee owner.

Sometimes its hard to rise above what you are, sometimes it cant be done no matter how hard you try ...... thats fine. But if you just sit back and accept that its all you can ever be ....... you will never get anywhere.

"We are what we are and some folk on here just need to accept this"


NEVER !!!

Our time will come again, we'll have another flash in the pan season where everything clicks into place at the same time and we'll win something before the big boys come along and steal our toys.

The guys you mentioned all had sustained success at their clubs at a time where money didn't completely rule the game. Every dog has his day and our's will come again. We haven't got money to throw after success and you don't have to look far to see what happens to mediocre football clubs when they go down this route. Motherwell are in the middle of their flash in the pan, Hearts are going down the pan, Inverness are in decline, Dundee Utd have found their level, StMirren and Kille have dropped out of mediocrity for the time being and the Sheep are probably on the rise and will become the best of the rest for a season or two.

We'll be back but it'll only happen after a period of sustained mediocrity and not after a meltdown. We were in meltdown with Yogi and Calderclown, whether we exit mediocrity with PF or someone else nobody knows but we're stuck with him for now. I'll be hoping he finds the mixture that causes the spark because it's what I do.

[Kaiser1962]

Harry Swan took Hibs to the dizzy hights of league winners.
Bill Shankly turned a bog standard run of the mill English league team into European Giants
Brian Clough did the same with two unfashionable league clubs
Alex Ferguson massively over achieved with two Scottish clubs
Jim McLean took Dundee Utd to a European cup semi final which they lost because of cheating by Roma.

These are all stand out people in the history of football. I have no idea whatsoever what it was that made them so successful. What the X factor was that enabled them to turn the mediocre into the best ..... I really, really have no idea.

But I tell you what ........... accepting mediocrity wasnt it. I seriously hope to goodness that this isnt the attitude of anybody at Easter Road from the worst player in our under 10 team to our absentee owner.


Most of the names mentioned are from different era's and different rules with the success of McLean (at United) in particular difficult to emulate these days. . The last success any of those enjoyed in Scotland was nigh on 30 years ago while thats not to say we shouldnt be striving for the same that has to be tempered by measuring those names against those that have tried and, by those standards, failed.

The absentee owner remark is harsh.

On comments made elsewhere on this thread the club is unlikely to "die" and losing on Wednesday will not be a "disater".

[jakeshibs]

As said before "Our Club will never die, but rise like a phoenix from the ashes" this is not the worse time or team I have witnessed in my 42 years supporting Hibs. Hearts said they killed us, we just need to stand shoulder to shoulder and support the club as this gives the team and the club confidence, we are bad for turning on the club its players when it does not go our way, we have just ended a wee run undefeated, lets get in tae them on Wednesday night and enjoy the occasion. Mon the Hibs:agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

As said before "Our Club will never die, but rise like a phoenix from the ashes" this is not the worse time or team I have witnessed in my 42 years supporting Hibs. Hearts said they killed us, we just need to stand shoulder to shoulder and support the club as this gives the team and the club confidence, we are bad for turning on the club its players when it does not go our way, we have just ended a wee run undefeated, lets get in tae them on Wednesday night and enjoy the occasion. Mon the Hibs:agree:

That's the spirit. :agree:

[Saorsa]

The absentee owner remark is harsh.Which bit of it is harsh or even untrue?

Loving the attitude of some on here, that's the way it's always been, so that's that and that's the way it shall stay, nae wonder Petrie gets away with it. When I started paying adult prices 20 odd years ago it cost me about 4 quid, seeing as I'm not entitled tae expect anything tae change or improve for the 450% increase which I am now paying can I go back tae paying 4 quid a game instead of 22.

[Hibrandenburg]

Which bit of it is harsh or even untrue?

Loving the attitude of some on here, that's the way it's always been, so that's that and that's the way it shall stay, nae wonder Petrie gets away with it. When I started paying adult prices 20 odd years ago it cost me about 4 quid, seeing as I'm not entitled tae expect anything tae change or improve for the 450% increase which I am now paying can I go back tae paying 4 quid a game instead of 22.

If Hibs were the only team to have increased their prices then that would be a valid argument but they're not are they? Hibs have been forced to hike pricing along with all the other clubs in an attempt to stay in the game. Like it or not but since Bosman all Scottish clubs outside Huntic have to balance the books in an environment of escalating cost where break even is the name of the game. As we've been witnessing anyone who takes the speculate to accumulate route is effectively playing Russian roulette with their clubs future. I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it. Let's leave the dicing with death to those ***** trumpets across the road.

[blackpoolhibs]

If Hibs were the only team to have increased their prices then that would be a valid argument but they're not are they? Hibs have been forced to hike pricing along with all the other clubs in an attempt to stay in the game. Like it or not but since Bosman all Scottish clubs outside Huntic have to balance the books in an environment of escalating cost where break even is the name of the game. As we've been witnessing anyone who takes the speculate to accumulate route is effectively playing Russian roulette with their clubs future. I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it. Let's leave the dicing with death to those ***** trumpets across the road.


Deary me, it seems you are another who can't see any middle ground. Do we have to be on the brink of bankruptcy to compete regularly at the right end of the league?

Do we have to get crowds of 50k before we can punch our own weight in this mickey mouse league, and compete with the likes of Inverness Caledonian ****in Thistle or Motherwell?

I despair at times, we have a support now thats frightened of their own bloody shadows. A support who are so frightened because of what's gone on over the other side of town its happy to just survive.

[greenpaper55]

If Hibs were the only team to have increased their prices then that would be a valid argument but they're not are they? Hibs have been forced to hike pricing along with all the other clubs in an attempt to stay in the game. Like it or not but since Bosman all Scottish clubs outside Huntic have to balance the books in an environment of escalating cost where break even is the name of the game. As we've been witnessing anyone who takes the speculate to accumulate route is effectively playing Russian roulette with their clubs future. I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it. Let's leave the dicing with death to those ***** trumpets across the road.

I don't think anyone is asking our owner/ceo to dice with death but just to employ someone who has a bit of a football brain, not to difficult you would think but if you know nowt about football and plenty about tyres then you end up like we are !. I agree that with the way football finances are we will always be a middle of the road club but we could also be entertaining along the way something that seems an alien concept to those in charge.

[Hibrandenburg]

Deary me, it seems you are another who can't see any middle ground. Do we have to be on the brink of bankruptcy to compete regularly at the right end of the league?

Do we have to get crowds of 50k before we can punch our own weight in this mickey mouse league, and compete with the likes of Inverness Caledonian ****in Thistle or Motherwell?

I despair at times, we have a support now thats frightened of their own bloody shadows. A support who are so frightened because of what's gone on over the other side of town its happy to just survive.

No, I'm more wary about what went on this side of town, do you remember that?

[blackpoolhibs]

No, I'm more wary about what went on this side of town, do you remember that?

Oh i remember it, and what makes you think we are going down that road again? :confused:

[Kaiser1962]

Which bit of it is harsh or even untrue?

Loving the attitude of some on here, that's the way it's always been, so that's that and that's the way it shall stay, nae wonder Petrie gets away with it. When I started paying adult prices 20 odd years ago it cost me about 4 quid, seeing as I'm not entitled tae expect anything tae change or improve for the 450% increase which I am now paying can I go back tae paying 4 quid a game instead of 22.

He is not absentee and is arguably around £8m-£10m out of pocket from his initially reluctant involvement with Hibs, money which he wont get back.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Deary me, it seems you are another who can't see any middle ground. Do we have to be on the brink of bankruptcy to compete regularly at the right end of the league?

Do we have to get crowds of 50k before we can punch our own weight in this mickey mouse league, and compete with the likes of Inverness Caledonian ****in Thistle or Motherwell?

I despair at times, we have a support now thats frightened of their own bloody shadows. A support who are so frightened because of what's gone on over the other side of town its happy to just survive.
:agree::agree::agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

Oh i remember it, and what makes you think we are going down that road again? :confused:

I'm not! :confused:

I'm just saying there's a lot to be said for being financially shrewd and that's what we've been. At some point we had to stop throwing good money after bad, instead of paying off managers every 18 months we've decided to back the one we had and put money into the team. Once Fenlon has seen out his contract we should then invest his wage on someone new if he's not broken the status quo. The manager carousel has to be broken.

[Crossgates Hibs]

I would never want KS no matter what, my opinion only :greengrin


He couldn't be any worse than Pat and youth would get a shot as well. He might come across as an arse but he could have us playing better than now.

[Saorsa]

Deary me, it seems you are another who can't see any middle ground. Do we have to be on the brink of bankruptcy to compete regularly at the right end of the league?

Do we have to get crowds of 50k before we can punch our own weight in this mickey mouse league, and compete with the likes of Inverness Caledonian ****in Thistle or Motherwell?

I despair at times, we have a support now thats frightened of their own bloody shadows. A support who are so frightened because of what's gone on over the other side of town its happy to just survive.:agree: Another favourite argument on here for Petrie is it's either his way or the h****s, like there's nothing in between. If that's the best defence folk have for him it's pretty pathetic.

Anyway we already spend more than most yet we are continually out performed by teams with far less, why? Because of the acceptance of mediocrity by those who run/own this club and it would seem by many fans, that's why.

[Saorsa]

If Hibs were the only team to have increased their prices then that would be a valid argument but they're not are they? Hibs have been forced to hike pricing along with all the other clubs in an attempt to stay in the game. Like it or not but since Bosman all Scottish clubs outside Huntic have to balance the books in an environment of escalating cost where break even is the name of the game. As we've been witnessing anyone who takes the speculate to accumulate route is effectively playing Russian roulette with their clubs future. I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it. Let's leave the dicing with death to those ***** trumpets across the road.Nothing tae do with dicing with death, it's tae do with drive, ambition and leadership. Because it's been that way disnae mean it has tae stay that way and until that attitude changes nothing else will. Those that own run this club seem happy tae accept that and plod on as long as there is nae danger and therefore nae need tae act. Farmer thinks Petrie is doing a good job yet our core business and reason for existing has failed and continues tae fail miserably.

Since 2007 we've lost between four and five thousand of our gates, I wonder how much that's cost. Mostly under 10000 this season and going down. In 2007 we had nearly 14000 fans turn up for a game against Gretna, where are these people now? Anywhere but ER that's where, because they're sick tae death of watching years of pish and throwing away hundreds of pounds every year on something that's about as enjoyable as a trip tae the dentist.

Had procession of failed managers and now on the latest dud

Made losses paying off those duff managers

3 consecutive bottom 6 finishes

But hey ho he's balanced the books most of the time, mostly by cutting staff levels tae a point where the club can hardly function properly tae cover for the losses caused by his mistakes.

I wonder how many other people could do their job that badly and still have it..

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not! :confused:

I'm just saying there's a lot to be said for being financially shrewd and that's what we've been. At some point we had to stop throwing good money after bad, instead of paying off managers every 18 months we've decided to back the one we had and put money into the team. Once Fenlon has seen out his contract we should then invest his wage on someone new if he's not broken the status quo. The manager carousel has to be broken.


So you admit we are shrewd, we have stopped throwing good money after bad. Yet we still spend more than most, arguably only Celtic spend more, but taking all that into account you said. ( I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it.)

As i said, you are frightened of your own shadow. :rolleyes:

Will we look back in 20-30 years time and celebrate striving for mediocrity?

[Keith_M]

Maybe we should change the club motto to Aeterna Mediocritatem and have done with it.

[Hibrandenburg]

Nothing tae do with dicing with death, it's tae do with drive, ambition and leadership. Because it's been that way disnae mean it has tae stay that way and until that attitude changes nothing else will. Those that own run this club seem happy tae accept that and plod on as long as there is nae danger and therefore nae need tae act. Farmer thinks Petrie is doing a good job yet our core business and reason for existing has failed and continues tae fail miserably.

Since 2007 we've lost between four and five thousand of our gates, I wonder how much that's cost. Mostly under 10000 this season and going down. In 2007 we had nearly 14000 fans turn up for a game against Gretna, where are these people now. Anywhere but ER that's where, because they're sick tae death of watching years of pish and throwing away hundreds of pounds every year on something that's about as enjoyable as a trip tae the dentist.

Had procession of failed managers

Made losses paying off those duff managers

3 consecutive bottom 6 finishes

But hey ho he's balanced the books most of the time, mostly by cutting staff levels tae a point where the club can hardly function properly tae cover for the losses caused by his mistakes.

Again if it was only Hibs that have that happen to them then those would be valid arguments, but it's not so they're not.

The whole game in Scotland is going through a crisis, attendances are down, cuts to budgets and loss of tv earnings. The financial meltdown world wide has left businesses batoning down the hatches and hoping their still in existence after the storm blows over. Attendances are down because folks can't afford to go, quality on the park suffers because the finances are down, attendances drop due to the lack of quality, more cuts are made due to lack of income, quality deteriorates due to less investment, attendances drop........... It's a downward spiral that needs to be controlled. Again, I for one am glad STF is at the helm. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Hibercelona]

We don't need to splash out more cash in order to become a far better team. We more than likely have the 2nd highest wage bill in the league right now anyway.

What we do however need is a board member who has some level of football competence. Somebody who can make the right choices beyond accountancy level.

We don't have to go down the yam route to challenege the likes of Inverness and Motherwell. Not even close.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Most of the names mentioned are from different era's and different rules with the success of McLean (at United) in particular difficult to emulate these days. . The last success any of those enjoyed in Scotland was nigh on 30 years ago while thats not to say we shouldnt be striving for the same that has to be tempered by measuring those names against those that have tried and, by those standards, failed.

The absentee owner remark is harsh.

On comments made elsewhere on this thread the club is unlikely to "die" and losing on Wednesday will not be a "disater".

Aye Kaiser. but I wasnt even making a point that I think Hibs will ever have another Harry Swan or a manager of the calibre of those mentioned above and I'm well aware that in the modern era money talks. The point I am making is that I dont have a clue what makes a genius manager or even owner ...... but the one thing that I am sure of is that accepting their clubs place in the natural order of things wasnt one of them. They didnt and neither should we.

Actually ... As far as I can see there are not many Hibbies out there who are saying we should cake walk the league every year or that we should be winning the Scottish Cup once a decade or the League Cup twice a decade. But, it is fair to measure your clubs chances of success based on the size of its following, infrastructure and players at its disposal. On that basis we are not asking for over achievment, just that we fulfill our potential.

We currently have a manager in place who sets his team up not to lose in home games against the likes of Motherwell and Aberdeen. Other managers in this league are not stupid and neither are most of the players. This attutude only encourages other teams to come to ER and impose themselves on us coz they can smell the fear.

As for folk who think losing on Wednesday night will not be a disaster.

Not only will it be a disaster, it will be the latest disaster in a long line of disasters in the last two years.

Hearts .... 1 - 5
QOTS ..... 2 - 0
Celtic .... 3 - 0 ................... Not because of the scoreline, but because it was just so easy for them.
Malmo .... 0 - 9 .................. The worst aggragate score in 50 odd years of Scottish football in Europe.
Yams away .... 1 - 0 ........... As I recall our vastly more experienced team was supposed to walk all over them in that game.

For 2 ... against 20.

I'm a Hibby ... from the minute I sit in my seat until the final whistle at every game I cheer and shout and encourage the team ... I never abuse individual players or boo the team off. I would want my fellow Hibbies to do the same. I will be just the same on Wednesday.

But this is a Yam team who cant buy a win and who have lost two of their last 3 matches against teams they simply had to beat to have any chance of avoiding relegation. We all saw St Mirren .. they were a poor team. Not to mention the fact that one of their few experienced players ( Stevenson ) looks highly likely to miss the game through injury.

If we lose at home to that lot and its not a disaster ( I mean in football, not real life ) ..... just what is?

As for Tom Farmer. Opinion is divided I suppose. For me theres only one thing worse than a football club owner who interferes in everything and thinks he should be picking the team and thats an owner who seems satisfied to sit back and watch his club stumble from one on field crisis to the next as the people who run the club for him accept rubbish on the pitch as long as the books balance.

His people seem blind to the fact that if it hadnt been for the two cup finals our season ticket sales would be a hell of a lot worse than they currently are. A lot of people bought STs to guarantee tickets for these cup finals .... not because they were desperate to attend every home game the following season based on what they had watched the previous season.

Surely the business plan at ER isnt to hope we make the cup final every year .... is it?

[blackpoolhibs]

Again if it was only Hibs that have that happen to them then those would be valid arguments, but it's not so they're not.

The whole game in Scotland is going through a crisis, attendances are down, cuts to budgets and loss of tv earnings. The financial meltdown world wide has left businesses batoning down the hatches and hoping their still in existence after the storm blows over. Attendances are down because folks can't afford to go, quality on the park suffers because the finances are down, attendances drop due to the lack of quality, more cuts are made due to lack of income, quality deteriorates due to less investment, attendances drop........... It's a downward spiral that needs to be controlled. Again, I for one am glad STF is at the helm. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

So much so there was less than 3000 at St Johnstone v Motherwell yesterday, 2 teams above us in the league. If we have to settle for mediocrity, what are these clubs striving for on their crowds? Are they going down the pan, or are their owners as shrewd as ours?

[Hibrandenburg]

So you admit we are shrewd, we have stopped throwing good money after bad. Yet we still spend more than most, arguably only Celtic spend more, but taking all that into account you said. ( I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it.)

As i said, you are frightened of your own shadow. :rolleyes:

Will we look back in 20-30 years time and celebrate striving for mediocrity?

If my son has the chance to go and watch Hibs in the top flight of Scottish football in 20-30 years time then I'll have been vindicated.

Before this is over there will be many big names who've gone to the wall.

You're taunting remarks about me being scared are really quite tedious, I suggest you check a thesaurus, you'll not find scared when you check for synonyms for shrewd, you may however find clear-sighted.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

So you admit we are shrewd, we have stopped throwing good money after bad. Yet we still spend more than most, arguably only Celtic spend more, but taking all that into account you said. ( I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it.)

As i said, you are frightened of your own shadow. :rolleyes:

Will we look back in 20-30 years time and celebrate striving for mediocrity?

Some good points on this thread, the way mediocrity has been accepted, even defended by some Hibs fans is absolutely depressing.
Clubs have up and downs, crap teams, crap managers; but this accepting of underachievement 'because its always been that way' ensures nothing changes for the better. Crowds are dwindling away and the fact that some people aren't angry at the state of the club, when they should be livid, can only lead to others wondering what the point is, when some Hibs fans seem content to have such low aspirations.

[Hibrandenburg]

Nothing tae do with dicing with death, it's tae do with drive, ambition and leadership. Because it's been that way disnae mean it has tae stay that way and until that attitude changes nothing else will. Those that own run this club seem happy tae accept that and plod on as long as there is nae danger and therefore nae need tae act. Farmer thinks Petrie is doing a good job yet our core business and reason for existing has failed and continues tae fail miserably.

Since 2007 we've lost between four and five thousand of our gates, I wonder how much that's cost. Mostly under 10000 this season and going down. In 2007 we had nearly 14000 fans turn up for a game against Gretna, where are these people now. Anywhere but ER that's where, because they're sick tae death of watching years of pish and throwing away hundreds of pounds every year on something that's about as enjoyable as a trip tae the dentist.

Had procession of failed managers

Made losses paying off those duff managers

3 consecutive bottom 6 finishes

But hey ho he's balanced the books most of the time, mostly by cutting staff levels tae a point where the club can hardly function properly tae cover for the losses caused by his mistakes.

Again if it was only Hibs that have that happen to them then those would be valid arguments, but it's not so they're not.

The whole game in Scotland is going through a crisis, attendances are down, cuts to budgets and loss of tv earnings. The financial meltdown world wide has left businesses batoning down the hatches and hoping their still in existence after the storm blows over. Attendances are down because folks can't afford to go, quality on the park suffers because the finances are down, attendances drop due to the lack of quality, more cuts are made due to lack of income, quality deteriorates due to less investment, attendances drop........... It's a downward spiral that needs to be controlled. Again, I for one am glad STF is at the helm. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[blackpoolhibs]

If my son has the chance to go and watch Hibs in the top flight of Scottish football in 20-30 years time then I'll have been vindicated.

Before this is over there will be many big names who've gone to the wall.

You're taunting remarks about me being scared are really quite tedious, I suggest you check a thesaurus, you'll not find scared when you check for synonyms for shrewd, you may however find clear-sighted.

Why would your son not be able to watch Hibs in 20 years time? What are we doing thats putting our club in such trouble they could go to the wall?

When you have an element of support that aspires to mediocrity, its no wonder that transfers itself to the club.

[Hibrandenburg]

Why would your son not be able to watch Hibs in 20 years time? What are we doing thats putting our club in such trouble they could go to the wall?

When you have an element of support that aspires to mediocrity, its no wonder that transfers itself to the club.

Who's aspiring to mediocrity? We are mediocre and therefore have no need to aspire to being so. Of course we should aspire to be the best we can be, but once you've ACCEPTED our mediocrity, only then can you set realistic aspirations.

Hibs being mediocre is not something STF, Rod Petrie or Pat Fenlon have championed, it's something we've been since our conception. Yes we can and should hold our heads high but we also need to keep our feet firmly on the ground.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Again if it was only Hibs that have that happen to them then those would be valid arguments, but it's not so they're not.

The whole game in Scotland is going through a crisis, attendances are down, cuts to budgets and loss of tv earnings. The financial meltdown world wide has left businesses batoning down the hatches and hoping their still in existence after the storm blows over. Attendances are down because folks can't afford to go, quality on the park suffers because the finances are down, attendances drop due to the lack of quality, more cuts are made due to lack of income, quality deteriorates due to less investment, attendances drop........... It's a downward spiral that needs to be controlled. Again, I for one am glad STF is at the helm. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

In that mire of depressing statistics is it not the case then that Hibernian FC who compared to just about every club in the country have decent crowds and with it a budget the envy of every club outwith celtic and Aberdeen should be doing a hell of a lot better?

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

[blackpoolhibs]

Who's aspiring to mediocrity? We are mediocre and therefore have no need to aspire to being so. Of course we should aspire to be the best we can be, but once you've ACCEPTED our mediocrity, only then can you set realistic aspirations.

Hibs being mediocre is not something STF, Rod Petrie or Pat Fenlon have championed, it's something we've been since our conception. Yes we can and should hold our heads high but we also need to keep our feet firmly on the ground.

You are, you are happy to accept it as long as we are still here in 20 years for your son to go along and see.

I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it. Your words.

[Keith_M]

Who's aspiring to mediocrity? We are mediocre and therefore have no need to aspire to being so. Of course we should aspire to be the best we can be, but once you've ACCEPTED our mediocrity, only then can you set realistic aspirations.

Hibs being mediocre is not something STF, Rod Petrie or Pat Fenlon have championed, it's something we've been since our conception. Yes we can and should hold our heads high but we also need to keep our feet firmly on the ground.


Paul, you've dug a deep enough whole for yourself, stop digging son, you'll soon be in Australia :wink:


My 'realistic aspirations' amount to watching Hibs play some reasonably attractive football and finishing at least in the top four of a league without Rangers and Hearts. That's not going to send us into oblivion like Rangers and Hearts or at the mercy of a future Mercer type.

[Hibrandenburg]

You are, you are happy to accept it as long as we are still here in 20 years for your son to go along and see.

I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it. Your words.

Since when did accept mean aspire? :confused:

Wish you'd use a dictionary before quoting me.

[Hibercelona]

Where does the idea that we're "mediocre" come from? :confused:

Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell..... they're all "mediocre" clubs. So if we're a larger club than them with resources they can only dream of, then how an earth can we be mediocre compared to them? :confused:

[Twa Cairpets]

Why would your son not be able to watch Hibs in 20 years time? What are we doing thats putting our club in such trouble they could go to the wall?

When you have an element of support that aspires to mediocrity, its no wonder that transfers itself to the club.

There's a massive difference between aspiring towards mediocrity and an understanding of realities.

In Scotland, we are, over any meaningful length of time, on average almost exactly where we should be in terms of resource and overall size within the market/league in which we operate. The inevitable, eminently predictable and depressing thread title illustrates, to me at least, the incredibly short term nature we as fans have. We see a bad result or even a season or two as indication of appalling mismanagement. It may be right, but its just the yang to the ying of the odd good season. We'll have good seasons again, and then when we fall away as we inevitably will as other teams get a good crop of youngsters or a cash injection or get lucky with an inspirational manager for a season or two it'll be the same hand-wringing accusations of incompetence.

I don't know how good Fenlon is, really. I personally don't think we've had time to judge, but to me the signs of where we are going are better certainly than under the last 5 incumbents.

Bottom line is we are where we should be. That's not accepting mediocrity, that's just broadly understanding the game, both on the pitch and off it.

Three trophies in 40 years kinda backs that up.

[Hibrandenburg]

Paul, you've dug a deep enough whole for yourself, stop digging son, you'll soon be in Australia :wink:


My 'realistic aspirations' amount to watching Hibs play some reasonably attractive football and finishing at least in the top four of a league without Rangers and Hearts. That's not going to send us into oblivion like Rangers and Hearts or at the mercy of a future Mercer type.

Do you expect that every season or have you accepted Hibs will mostly be an also ran? 138yrs of Hibs history would point to the latter.

As a Hibs fan I've grown up, as a kid I was brainwashed into believing that Hibs are and always will be the finest team to elegantly glide across the turf, as a young man I was raging that the team I was watching dared to impersonate the gladiators of old and should be playing for the honour of our unique and great club. It's only now as a grumpy old ******* that I see the truth, Hibs are mediocre and have been for 138yrs with little flashes of brilliance now and again.

I just wish that our resident business/football guru's had been here 138yrs ago to warn us all then.

[Hibrandenburg]

Where does the idea that we're "mediocre" come from? :confused:

Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell..... they're all "mediocre" clubs. So if we're a larger club than them with resources they can only dream of, then how an earth can we be mediocre compared to them? :confused:

How arrogant and yammish does that read?

[Hibrandenburg]

You are, you are happy to accept it as long as we are still here in 20 years for your son to go along and see.

I for one am happy we have a shrewd owner who takes no risk in regard to our existence and if the price is mediocrity with a bit of success here and there, then so be it. Your words.

Since when did accept mean aspire? :confused:

Wish you'd use a dictionary before quoting me.