What country to play for..?

[HappyHibby93]

Been reading about this Januzaj kid from Man United. Turns out he can currently play for four countries, and in two years, five, as he can play for England after he's been there for five years. Sounds crazy and to be honest ridiculous! Surely you should play for the country that your born in?

[Andy74]

Been reading about this Januzaj kid from Man United. Turns out he can currently play for four countries, and in two years, five, as he can play for England after he's been there for five years. Sounds crazy and to be honest ridiculous! Surely you should play for the country that your born in?

If they are talking UK residency, couldn't he also play for any of the home countries?

[Keith_M]

Been reading about this Januzaj kid from Man United. Turns out he can currently play for four countries, and in two years, five, as he can play for England after he's been there for five years. Sounds crazy and to be honest ridiculous! Surely you should play for the country that your born in?


You mean like Joe and Gerry Baker, who played for England and USA respectively, despite having been brought up in Scotland and having no emotional ties to any country except Scotland?

Nope, I wouldn't go with that as a criteria.

['Mon the Hibs]

Been reading about this Januzaj kid from Man United. Turns out he can currently play for four countries, and in two years, five, as he can play for England after he's been there for five years. Sounds crazy and to be honest ridiculous! Surely you should play for the country that your born in?

What happens if you are born in one country (say Denmark), stay there for a year and then move to Scotland, where all your family are from etc and where you spend the next 20 years??

FWIW, my view is that it should go as far as your parents or where you were born. Not taking grandparents into account. The 5 years residency/schooling thing is stupid. Remember there was talk of Lorenzo Amoruso playing for scotland :(

[HappyHibby93]

You mean like Joe and Gerry Baker, who played for England and Canada respectively, despite having been brought up in Scotland and having no emotional ties to any country except Scotland?

Nope, I wouldn't go with that as a criteria.

Fair enough, I was think about it and i thought would be a not bad criteria as to which international country you can play for;

The country that you are born in

The country that you're parents are born

A country you have been a resident in for 10 years or more.

For me, five years is to short a period of time, and i personally would get rid of the rule where you can play for a country that your Grandparents are from.

[scoopyboy]

You mean like Joe and Gerry Baker, who played for England and Canada respectively, despite having been brought up in Scotland and having no emotional ties to any country except Scotland?

Nope, I wouldn't go with that as a criteria.

Nothing to do with the debate but Gerry played for USA.

[Treadstone]

If they are talking UK residency, couldn't he also play for any of the home countries?

Home nations signed a voluntary agreement they wouldn't go down this route.

[HappyHibby93]

What happens if you are born in one country (say Denmark), stay there for a year and then move to Scotland, where all your family are from etc and where you spend the next 20 years??

FWIW, my view is that it should go as far as your parents or where you were born. Not taking grandparents into account. The 5 years residency/schooling thing is stupid. Remember there was talk of Lorenzo Amoruso playing for scotland :(

Definitely agree with you, for me if you have been resident in that country for more than ten years you should be able to play for that country, over the space of ten years you would definitely have an emotional affiliation with that country surely

[hibsbollah]

Surely you should play for the country that your born in?

Nope. I was born abroad but my folks moved to Scotland when I was very young, I have no memories of the country of my birth, I went to school in Scotland, worked and paid taxes here for most of my life, why shouldnt I qualify? As it happens ive also worked and studied abroad and if I was good enough :greengrin i could choose to play for 4 countries.

People move around a lot more in the twenty first century, especially top footballers who will often move to wherever the best academies and youth setups are. The five year residency rule makes sense, it really doesnt bother me.

[Chump]

If England do start to actually talk about that as a possibility it would stink of desperation on their part.

[Keith_M]

Nothing to do with the debate but Gerry played for USA.


Cheers Scoopy, now updated :thumbsup:

[NAE NOOKIE]

The trouble with this rule is that it would make the strong countries even stronger. Obviously the best young players are going to end up in England, Spain. Italy and Germany.

I have no problem with anybody who has been brought up in Scotland playing for their adopted country .... It would be a shame for people with this emotional attachment missing out. I dont even have a problem with the grandparents criteria. But the 5 year rule .... sorry, not for me.

[Hibrandenburg]

Another "Groundhog day" on Hibsnet.

[easty]

You should only want to play for the country you would class yourself as being from. I would never want to represent a country other than Scotland, just wouldn't sit right with me.

[Miguel]

Was Matt Le Tissier not eligible for all four home nations, because he was born in Channel Islands and the rule also applied to other crown dependencies? Aside from that, it should be country of birth, or parents' country of birth.

[wookie70]

I would get rid of the grandparent rule and allow the 5 year rule if it in the ealy years of your life. Surely at 16 most would have decided on where they belonged.

[Haymaker]

Actually he can play for Belgium (birth), Turkey (mother) the six Yugoslav republics (dad) apparently and, if it gets recognised, Kosovo. He is from albanian-Kosovo decent so possibly even Albania? My friend plays for Albania and was born in Kosovo.

[Eyrie]

I would get rid of the grandparent rule and allow the 5 year rule if it in the ealy years of your life. Surely at 16 most would have decided on where they belonged.

This.

There is a vast difference between someone who arrives in a country aged 11 and learns their sport here for five years, and someone who arrives in the country for the first time aged 22 and happens to work here for five years. The former can reasonably be regarded as a product of the country, the latter cannot.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Not just football that has this as an issue though is it? International cricket is just a joke and wasn't there a Scottish squash player who decided to be English because they have better resources?

[Jonnyboy]

Not just football that has this as an issue though is it? International cricket is just a joke and wasn't there a Scottish squash player who decided to be English because they have better resources?

There was aye.

[worcesterhibby]

The trouble with this rule is that it would make the strong countries even stronger. Obviously the best young players are going to end up in England, Spain. Italy and Germany.

I have no problem with anybody who has been brought up in Scotland playing for their adopted country .... It would be a shame for people with this emotional attachment missing out. I dont even have a problem with the grandparents criteria. But the 5 year rule .... sorry, not for me.

This is bang on. The top English league clubs are busy getting the cream of the worlds 15 year olds into their academies. If a five years time we could see an England team that is entirely made up of South Americans who arrived in Britain at age 16. The residency rule must at at least 10 years, even then I don't think it should apply to anyone who moves country "for football reasons".

[Onceinawhile]

Not just football that has this as an issue though is it? International cricket is just a joke and wasn't there a Scottish squash player who decided to be English because they have better resources?

The english team that won the ashes had at least two possibly 3 or 4 south Africans in the team.

think the squash player was something nicol.

I could play for south africa or scotland due to the grandparent rule. Even though I've not even been there id still be happy tobplay for sa

[Aldo]

I have an English father, Irish Grandfather (South) and was born in Embra, Scotland.

So if I was any gid at any sport I could close all of the above (that's if the country did the grandfather rule).

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Did you hear the one about the English/Scot/Irishman?

"I'm Scots-Irish - my mother was from Wales" - Frank Drebin (Naked Gun)

[sparky]

Fair enough, I was think about it and i thought would be a not bad criteria as to which international country you can play for;

The country that you are born in

The country that you're parents are born

A country you have been a resident in for 10 years or more.

For me, five years is to short a period of time, and i personally would get rid of the rule where you can play for a country that your Grandparents are from.

Agree with most of the above, except players must register their chosen country with FIFA at age 18. They are classed as adults by then and can be trusted to make an informed decision. Make it 5 years instead of 10 residency though.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

More importantly, anyone know if Andy Driver will be in the next Scotland squad or not?? Getting impatient now

[Sir David Gray]

You should only be eligible to play for the country of your birth or the country/countries that your parents were born.

I don't believe there should be any exceptions.

[jodjam]

Agree with most of the above, except players must register their chosen country with FIFA at age 18. They are classed as adults by then and can be trusted to make an informed decision. Make it 5 years instead of 10 residency though.

Signing up to your country with FIFA is spot on. At 18 or even slightly younger the player can pick from place of birth, parents PoB or a country where he has been at school for 5 years. This gets round larger countries flooding acedemies with 15 year olds as they couldn't play for that country unless any of the above applied.

[Speedy]

You should only be eligible to play for the country of your birth or the country/countries that your parents were born.

I don't believe there should be any exceptions.

Born in Somalia to Somalian parents and move to Scotland at 6 months old?

[essexhibee]

Born in England to two scottish parents. Playing for England would never and has never crossed my mind. Have always just known I was scottish regardless. People try and say in English but my blood runs blue (and green obvs :greengrin: )

[Sir David Gray]

Born in Somalia to Somalian parents and move to Scotland at 6 months old?

I can see the argument for that particular case but I would still draw the line at either country of birth or country of your parents' birth.

That way there are no shades of grey. When you start to allow people to play for a country that they have stayed in since an early age, you start to create arguments about how long that time should be etc.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I was eligible to play for Canada. They never called.

[WellingtonHibby]

I was born in Saudi, raised in both Scotland and England by Scottish and Engligh parent. Speak with an english Accent. I would play for Scotland and no body else..

No has yet asked me though. I live in hope. :greengrin

[Off the bar]

rooney could have played for scotland through his grandmother and was asked by berti vogts when he was handing out caps to anyone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24474708

as much as I think he is a total fud I would take him for scotland in a heartbeat!

[Bristolhibby]

Born in England to two scottish parents. Playing for England would never and has never crossed my mind. Have always just known I was scottish regardless. People try and say in English but my blood runs blue (and green obvs :greengrin: )

My situation also. Moved back to Edina when I was 9 months old, moved back to England when I was 9. My wee brother despite sounding like a farmer was born in Scotland, but would qualify for England due to the scooping rule (not that he or I would ever consider that).

J

[Scouse Hibee]

Country of birth or parents, anything else shouldn't be considered. I blame Jack Charlton.

[steakbake]

I'd play for any country that'd have me on their team. Hence, I think people like Aiden McGeady are getting to hard a time. Reckon no one would have batted an eyelid if he'd gone to play for Wales, for example. He's viewed as a 'traitor' for playing for Ireland which I think says more about an undercurrent of anti-Irish sentiment than anything else.

That said, should be limited to nationalities of parents maybe grandparents at a push.

[Keith_M]

Well, I'm thinking about changing my nationality to Brazilian.

My missus recently said she fancied getting one and I really don't want to lose her :boo hoo:

[s2hart]

Was Steven Fletcher not born in England but chose to represent Scotland? I think possibly one of his parents was Scottish or both!

Also, how does it work in rugby, was half the Scotland team not full of New Zealanders!

[worcesterhibby]

For me, deciding on the rules shouldn't be that hard. The Criteria should be...

Country of Birth
Either parents country of birth
10 year residency

How can anyone genuinely argue with the above ??

If you come to Scotland aged 15 and fall in love with the place and feel completely Scottish, then you'll just need to wait till your 25 before you can play for us. But if you love the country that much..you won't mind. It will be worth the wait.

[Keith_M]

Country of Birth
Either parents country of birth
10 year residency

How can anyone genuinely argue with the above ??

I can.

Moving to a foreign country and become attached to it still doesn't give you nationality of that country. If you change it to "10 year residency - and becomes citizen of relevant nation (e.g. moves to Scotland and takes out UK citizenship)"


I would also add one more qualification level.

Born and brought up in Brazil but can't get a game for their own nation because of already having so many fantastic players to choose from.

[Purple & Green]

Home nations signed a voluntary agreement they wouldn't go down this route.

Was it Maik Taylor that played for Northern Ireland on the basis of a British passport even though he was born in Germany? I think he was said to be the last person able to do that.

Regarding the Man United player, a lot of it is media chatter - you need citizenship of a country first and foremost to play for them (you show your passport to the FIFA observer at each international) and there's no way he holds citizenship of four countries.

Some seem to think that he won't get to play for England if he gets citizenship....I don't see what will stop him if he gives up citizenship of whichever country he has citizenship of.

[Dashing Bob S]

...Spain of Brazil for me. Espana or Braaaaaazeeeeel!!!

Oh, eligibility?


Yawn...Scotland

[Jonnyboy]

rooney could have played for scotland through his grandmother and was asked by berti vogts when he was handing out caps to anyone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24474708

as much as I think he is a total fud I would take him for scotland in a heartbeat!

It's a wonder Bertie didn't ask Rooney's granny to play :wink:


Was Steven Fletcher not born in England but chose to represent Scotland? I think possibly one of his parents was Scottish or both!

Also, how does it work in rugby, was half the Scotland team not full of New Zealanders!

Fletch was born in Shrewsbury, as were my four older siblings. Only one of those five made it in football though :greengrin

[jdships]

Nope. I was born abroad but my folks moved to Scotland when I was very young, I have no memories of the country of my birth, I went to school in Scotland, worked and paid taxes here for most of my life, why shouldnt I qualify? As it happens ive also worked and studied abroad and if I was good enough :greengrin i could choose to play for 4 countries.

People move around a lot more in the twenty first century, especially top footballers who will often move to wherever the best academies and youth setups are. The five year residency rule makes sense, it really doesnt bother me.

:top marks good post
I was born in England of an Edinburgh father and an English mother . We moved north to the City when I was aged three weeks and I have lived the whole of my 81years and four months here
Like you I went to school in Scotland, worked and paid taxes here for all of my working life,
I am SCOTS in every way as that is how I have been brought up .
Surely despite being told by an SNP senior MSP " You are not a true Scot and can't call yourself a Scot " I should qualify :greengrin:wink:
YES ?????

[Jonnyboy]

:top marks good post
I was born in England of an Edinburgh father and an English mother . We moved north to the City when I was aged three weeks and I have lived the whole of my 81years and four months here
Like you I went to school in Scotland, worked and paid taxes here for all of my working life,
I am SCOTS in every way as that is how I have been brought up .
Surely despite being told by an SNP senior MSP " You are not a true Scot and can't call yourself a Scot " I should qualify :greengrin:wink:
YES ?????

What eedjit came up with that little gem?

[jdships]

What eedjit came up with that little gem?

It was " Ego Man " just four weeks after the SNP won the last Scottish Election
I was introduced to him at an SNP Fund Raiser/Bun Fight and while it was said with a grin and a pat on the back it went down like a lead balloon with a number of the people there .

Certainly the man knows how to win support :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

It was " Ego Man " just four weeks after the SNP won the last Scottish Election
I was introduced to him at an SNP Fund Raiser/Bun Fight and while it was said with a grin and a pat on the back it went down like a lead balloon with a number of the people there .

Certainly the man knows how to win support :greengrin

:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Who was the player that played for Ireland after saying his grandparents were from Ireland, when in fact they were from England?

His name escapes me, but he played for Celtic? Just came to me, Tony Cascerino (sp) It came out after he'd retired that he shouldn't have played for them, he did not qualify. :greengrin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cascarino

I wonder if the folk who check out these things are better at their job these days? :greengrin

[worcesterhibby]

I can.

Moving to a foreign country and become attached to it still doesn't give you nationality of that country. If you change it to "10 year residency - and becomes citizen of relevant nation (e.g. moves to Scotland and takes out UK citizenship)"



Fine but that's not really arguing with me, just refining and adding detail. So basically I am right and they should put me in charge.

[Jonnyboy]

Who was the player that played for Ireland after saying his grandparents were from Ireland, when in fact they were from England?

His name escapes me, but he played for Celtic? Just came to me, Tony Cascerino (sp) It came out after he'd retired that he shouldn't have played for them, he did not qualify. :greengrin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cascarino

I wonder if the folk who check out these things are better at their job these days? :greengrin

Much better G :agree: Well according to Lionel McMessi anyway :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Much better G :agree: Well according to Lionel McMessi anyway :greengrin



:greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

Was it Maik Taylor that played for Northern Ireland on the basis of a British passport even though he was born in Germany? I think he was said to be the last person able to do that.

Regarding the Man United player, a lot of it is media chatter - you need citizenship of a country first and foremost to play for them (you show your passport to the FIFA observer at each international) and there's no way he holds citizenship of four countries.

Some seem to think that he won't get to play for England if he gets citizenship....I don't see what will stop him if he gives up citizenship of whichever country he has citizenship of.

Because (& this is rarely getting reported), but all home Natuons opted out of the citizenship criteria, as technically anyone could play for any of the four home Nations with a UK passport.

J

[Scouse Hibee]

[QUOTE=Jonnyboy;3769204]It's a wonder Bertie didn't ask Rooney's granny to play :wink:



He did, but when she ran rings around the jocks in training he thought better of it.

[Purple & Green]

Who was the player that played for Ireland after saying his grandparents were from Ireland, when in fact they were from England?

His name escapes me, but he played for Celtic? Just came to me, Tony Cascerino (sp) It came out after he'd retired that he shouldn't have played for them, he did not qualify. :greengrin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cascarino

I wonder if the folk who check out these things are better at their job these days? :greengrin

That Wikipedia link tells you that he did qualify to play for Ireland through citizenship ie he had Irish citizenship. The story about not being legible was just to sell his autobiography - kimmage or dunphy wrote it iirc, it sounds like the kind of nonsense dunphy would come out with

[Thecat23]

I could have played for Scotland, England or Ireland. If they came calling I'd pick who ever I thought I had the best chance of playing at a World Cup or Euros. Couldn't care about sentimental pish if I could better myself by playing for England I'd go them even though I want them do lose every time they play :D

[Jonnyboy]

[QUOTE=Jonnyboy;3769204]It's a wonder Bertie didn't ask Rooney's granny to play :wink:



He did, but when she ran rings around the jocks in training he thought better of it.

:greengrin