PDA

View Full Version : Defence



Ozyhibby
15-12-2012, 05:00 PM
3 points out of the last 15. How long will Pat continue with this woeful defence.
Our inability to retain posession means we are easily put under pressure and even when we are not we will gift goals anyway.
Needs major changes during the january transfer window.

Northernhibee
15-12-2012, 05:05 PM
3 points out of the last 15. How long will Pat continue with this woeful defence.

What with injuries, who else do we have? With our financial situation, who do we sign that is a free agent who would improve the side?


Needs major changes during the january transfer window.

No it doesn't. We need Clancy back and McPake match fit again. Retain McGivern and maybe bring another CB in.

Thecat23
15-12-2012, 05:07 PM
Hibs are crying out for wide men. We are unbelievably narrow and that's why we get battered down the wings. We need to start doing that to teams and have these wing men drop back and support but also quick enough to catch teams on the break.

JohnScott
15-12-2012, 05:09 PM
What with injuries, who else do we have? With our financial situation, who do we sign that is a free agent who would improve the side?



No it doesn't. We need Clancy back and McPake match fit again. Retain McGivern and maybe bring another CB in.

Sitting in london today reading in an English paper about how Terry Butcher is doing so well on a budget of 800k How come he seems to build build half decent teams on such a small budget then?

Ozyhibby
15-12-2012, 05:11 PM
Its conceeded 27 goals so far this season. If you think thats ok then fine. Your obviously easier pleased than me (most folk are).
I have not looked at our posession stats but i bet they are below 50% in most games this season.
Thankfully our strikers helped us put up points on the board at the start of the season.

Hibbyradge
15-12-2012, 05:11 PM
The defence were dominant and solid in the first half.

Any defence in the world is going to struggle if we decide to give the ball to the opposition .

Pretty Boy
15-12-2012, 05:14 PM
The defence were dominant and solid in the first half.

Any defence in the world is going to struggle if we decide to give the ball to the opposition .

We looked ok at the back 1st half.

As you say if you stand off teams, sit deep and let them have the ball then you are asking for trouble.

We got what we deserved in the 2nd half.

Northernhibee
15-12-2012, 05:15 PM
Sitting in london today reading in an English paper about how Terry Butcher is doing so well on a budget of 800k How come he seems to build build half decent teams on such a small budget then?

You've dodged my question. Answer the question. In our financial situation, which free agent can we sign to improve things at the back?

We were crap in the last half hour today, no question. I'm not pleased with today at all but know the diffrence between form and quality and trust that with some minor tweaking in the transfer window PF will turn it around. He's a young manager and it's a team that was mostly put together in just the one transfer window, we are going to have days like today.

As each transfer window passes my expectations are we'll have less and less days like today, but I'm not going to cry into my pillow tonight about it just yet.

Ozyhibby
15-12-2012, 05:25 PM
You've dodged my question. Answer the question. In our financial situation, which free agent can we sign to improve things at the back?

We were crap in the last half hour today, no question. I'm not pleased with today at all but know the diffrence between form and quality and trust that with some minor tweaking in the transfer window PF will turn it around. He's a young manager and it's a team that was mostly put together in just the one transfer window, we are going to have days like today.

As each transfer window passes my expectations are we'll have less and less days like today, but I'm not going to cry into my pillow tonight about it just yet.

Our financial situation is that we have the third highest budget (soon to be 2nd)in the league and the fourth worst defence.
4 out of the back 5 were signed by Pat and 9 out of the starting 11 were signed by Pat.
Cant blame Calderwood forever.

Northernhibee
15-12-2012, 05:54 PM
Our financial situation is that we have the third highest budget (soon to be 2nd)in the league and the fourth worst defence.
4 out of the back 5 were signed by Pat and 9 out of the starting 11 were signed by Pat.
Cant blame Calderwood forever.

Who blamed Calderwood? Do you think you can entirely turn a team around in one transfer window?

You still don't answer the question. Have a wee read of the AGM and annual accounts thread, we don't have money to spend.

You're vocal enough any time we have a bad result, time for you to start speaking up about what we should do and who we should sign. Or are you another loudmouth who has no clue on what's best for the club?

Oh, I belive in the Steven Doris thread it's emerged that PF is happy for suggestions to be e-mailed to the scouts. Whoever you suggest on here make sure you forward the suggestion to them as well.

Ozyhibby
15-12-2012, 06:06 PM
Who blamed Calderwood? Do you think you can entirely turn a team around in one transfer window?

You still don't answer the question. Have a wee read of the AGM and annual accounts thread, we don't have money to spend.

You're vocal enough any time we have a bad result, time for you to start speaking up about what we should do and who we should sign. Or are you another loudmouth who has no clue on what's best for the club?

Oh, I belive in the Steven Doris thread it's emerged that PF is happy for suggestions to be e-mailed to the scouts. Whoever you suggest on here make sure you forward the suggestion to them as well.

Just pointing out the facts. Im not suggesting any players, thats Pat's job. Maybe that they are not being set up properly and no new signings are required. All im saying is that we are still losing goals at a drastic rate, as we have for the last 3 years with no sign of improvement. Luckily our attacking play has improved.
Besides, if you cant be grumpy after chucking away a two goal lead at home, then when can you?

hibbybrian
15-12-2012, 06:25 PM
We looked ok at the back 1st half.

As you say if you stand off teams, sit deep and let them have the ball then you are asking for trouble.

We got what we deserved in the 2nd half.

:agree:

Sir David Gray
15-12-2012, 06:28 PM
Until Clancy comes back, I don't think we really have much option in terms of who we play in defence. We need to strengthen in January, although the statements from the board over the past few weeks would indicate that we shouldn't get our hopes up for that actually happening.

neil7908
15-12-2012, 06:41 PM
Hibs are crying out for wide men. We are unbelievably narrow and that's why we get battered down the wings. We need to start doing that to teams and have these wing men drop back and support but also quick enough to catch teams on the break.

Agree 100%, the number of goals we are losing from crosses/headers is very worrying. I would love to see us sign a decent left winger in January and move Cairney into the centre. I think we are really stuggling for someone in midfield to dictate the play and offer a bit more going forward. Claros, Taiwo and Deegan are good at what they do but offer nothing further up the field - how many goals/assists will they contribute? That is not a criticism of them but i dont think the team needs 2 simlar players in that area of the pitch.

Transfer window is huge for us. Keep the loanees and bring in 2-3 decent players then I'm confident for the rest of the season. Based on the info frm the AGM though its far more likely the loan players will leave, we'll struggle with replacements and there wont be funding to address the other issues in the team. In that senario I can see us struggling to make the top 6.

heretoday
15-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Hibs defences were always fragile. Even the Tornadoes. Everything's going great and then......................BANG!

Northernhibee
15-12-2012, 09:23 PM
Just pointing out the facts. Im not suggesting any players, thats Pat's job. Maybe that they are not being set up properly and no new signings are required. All im saying is that we are still losing goals at a drastic rate, as we have for the last 3 years with no sign of improvement. Luckily our attacking play has improved.
Besides, if you cant be grumpy after chucking away a two goal lead at home, then when can you?

There are some people that seem grumpy after a Hibs loss and some that seem delighted.

The "That's Pat's job" line has been wheeled out so many times on this board, it seems that when there's a "put up or shut up" moment on this board too many people choose the latter.

I think we're uncomfortable with a two goal lead for one reason or another and we need to troubleshoot why this is. One goal up we're happy to keep going for a second then afterwards we look far from sharp. We need to work on building a mentality that we defend by keeping the ball in the opponents half and that comes with time.

J-C
15-12-2012, 10:48 PM
The defence were dominant and solid in the first half.

Any defence in the world is going to struggle if we decide to give the ball to the opposition .


Blame the midfield who disappeared in the 2nd half, you need a strong midfield to support your defence.

AK86
15-12-2012, 11:07 PM
Hibs defences were always fragile. Even the Tornadoes. Everything's going great and then......................BANG!

Aye right enough
stanton blackley brownlie shades, they were murder

that defence would walk this league

Devilstorment
15-12-2012, 11:41 PM
Blame the midfield who disappeared in the 2nd half, you need a strong midfield to support your defence.


bang on. We had 5 in midfield and it looked like we had none!! the defence can only do so much, if the opposition are bossing the midfield balls will continue to come in to the box and its just a matter of time before one finds its way in to the back of the net.

Our back 4 are not great by any stretch but the blame needs to be shared

monktonharp
16-12-2012, 02:38 AM
Blame the midfield who disappeared in the 2nd half, you need a strong midfield to support your defence.:agree:spot on. I sat watching the whole game, on my tod today and first half we played some good stuff,with the defence holding their ground very well and that includes the whole back four. It all went tits up when they got their first goal. we lost it,totally lost it in the midfield.Widdy became invisible,Taoao or whatever you spell it,seemed to get injured, Claros lost the plot.Paul Cairney give his all, but sometimes his lack of class comes out. as for the defence, our captain looked like rudolph the red nose reindeer after the hour( and was booked early ) he should have been subbed after the hour. the big blond handsome left back was torn up for ersepaper at every turn by the 'well winger. he should have been moved in to replace Mc Pake! and a fresh Stevenson brought on. McGiven gave away so many corners, it cost us the game. I'm no manager and dont like to comment on such matters but as I sat on my own, these were my thoughts and the lonesome walk back to the car was not good. I kept asking myself, why the hell did he make the subs he did.?

monktonharp
16-12-2012, 02:41 AM
Hibs defences were always fragile. Even the Tornadoes. Everything's going great and then......................BANG!dont be silly. If WE HAD THOSE FOUR UNTIL THE END OF THE SEASON, WE'D HAVE WON THE LEAGUE, AND YOU KNOW IT

marinello59
16-12-2012, 07:12 AM
:agree:spot on. I sat watching the whole game, on my tod today and first half we played some good stuff,with the defence holding their ground very well and that includes the whole back four. It all went tits up when they got their first goal. we lost it,totally lost it in the midfield.Widdy became invisible,Taoao or whatever you spell it,seemed to get injured, Claros lost the plot.Paul Cairney give his all, but sometimes his lack of class comes out. as for the defence, our captain looked f/ked after the hour( and was booked early ) he should have been subbed after the hour. the big blond handsome left back was torn up for ersepaper at every turn by the 'well winger. he should have been moved in to replace Mc Pake! and a fresh Stevenson brought on. McGiven gave away so many corners, it cost us the game. I'm no manager and dont like to comment on such matters but as I sat on my own, these were my thoughts and the lonesome walk back to the car was not good. I kept asking myself, why the hell did he make the subs he did.?

:agree:

Hibby 2005
16-12-2012, 09:51 AM
:agree:spot on. I sat watching the whole game, on my tod today and first half we played some good stuff,with the defence holding their ground very well and that includes the whole back four. It all went tits up when they got their first goal. we lost it,totally lost it in the midfield.Widdy became invisible,Taoao or whatever you spell it,seemed to get injured, Claros lost the plot.Paul Cairney give his all, but sometimes his lack of class comes out. as for the defence, our captain looked f/ked after the hour( and was booked early ) he should have been subbed after the hour. the big blond handsome left back was torn up for ersepaper at every turn by the 'well winger. he should have been moved in to replace Mc Pake! and a fresh Stevenson brought on. McGiven gave away so many corners, it cost us the game. I'm no manager and dont like to comment on such matters but as I sat on my own, these were my thoughts and the lonesome walk back to the car was not good. I kept asking myself, why the hell did he make the subs he did.?

The Well winger would have brushed past Stevenson just as easily as he did McGivern.

The bottom line is a narrow win or at worst a draw was on the cards until Pat Fenlon panicked. The look on every face around me when the first two substitutions were made said it all.

The worrying thing after the game was Fenlon's denial that he made a mistake tactically.

J-C
16-12-2012, 11:28 AM
The Well winger would have brushed past Stevenson just as easily as he did McGivern.

The bottom line is a narrow win or at worst a draw was on the cards until Pat Fenlon panicked. The look on every face around me when the first two substitutions were made said it all.

The worrying thing after the game was Fenlon's denial that he made a mistake tactically.2

Given that Stevenson is more defensive minded, he would've doubled up with Mcgivern and stopped Humphries, pace has nothing to do with it, proper defending and positioning has.

pacorosssco
16-12-2012, 11:57 AM
Who blamed Calderwood? Do you think you can entirely turn a team around in one transfer window?

You still don't answer the question. Have a wee read of the AGM and annual accounts thread, we don't have money to spend.

You're vocal enough any time we have a bad result, time for you to start speaking up about what we should do and who we should sign. Or are you another loudmouth who has no clue on what's best for the club?

Oh, I belive in the Steven Doris thread it's emerged that PF is happy for suggestions to be e-mailed to the scouts. Whoever you suggest on here make sure you forward the suggestion to them as well.

terry butcher has this year but he hasnt in others. think its hard to do but it can be done. stuart mcall has to an extent

Franck Stanton
16-12-2012, 12:52 PM
Blame the midfield who disappeared in the 2nd half, you need a strong midfield to support your defence.


Exactly, control the midfield and you control the game, they take pressure off the defence, set up chances for the forwards and win you games. Truth is we dont have a strong enough midfield to control games. Especially yesterday, they were posted missing second half with result we were pinned back deep into our own half and ended up just kicking the ball the way we were looking - giving Motherwell possession very cheaply and letting them set up wave after wave of attack. The substitutions didn't help either but that alone wasn't the reason we lost.

number9dream
16-12-2012, 01:12 PM
Exactly, control the midfield and you control the game, they take pressure off the defence, set up chances for the forwards and win you games. Truth is we dont have a strong enough midfield to control games. Especially yesterday, they were posted missing second half with result we were pinned back deep into our own half and ended up just kicking the ball the way we were looking - giving Motherwell possession very cheaply and letting them set up wave after wave of attack. The substitutions didn't help either but that alone wasn't the reason we lost.

Having three 'water-carriers' in Claros, Taiwo and Deegan on together was a mistake. Keep the ball and the other side can't put you under pressure.
Maybury was shocking for the match-winning goal, backing off and looking like a pensioner trying to cut the cross out.
Do we not have a right-back in the Under-20 side?

Slightly off topic, I'll be disappointed if we don't make Aaron Doran a pre-contract offer in January. Very comfortable on the ball and leads the SPL charts for assists. Just a young guy and his Irish background might appeal to Pat. Liam Kelly is another gifted midfielder that would be in our wage bracket but not sure about his contract situation.

Scouse Hibee
16-12-2012, 01:15 PM
Having three 'water-carriers' in Claros, Taiwo and Deegan on together was a mistake. Keep the ball and the other side can't put you under pressure.
Maybury was shocking for the match-winning goal, backing off and looking like a pensioner trying to cut the cross out.
Do we not have a right-back in the Under-20 side?

Slightly off topic, I'll be disappointed if we don't make Aaron Doran a pre-contract offer in January. Very comfortable on the ball and leads the SPL charts for assists. Just a young guy and his Irish background might appeal to Pat. Liam Kelly is another gifted midfielder that would be in our wage bracket but not sure about his contract situation.

As was McGivern in the second half virtually every time Humphrey ran at him, strange how many people are quoting Maybury's efforts for the match winning goal though! Incidentally the match winning goal IMO was the first Well goal if you know what I mean!

ShanksSaidNo
16-12-2012, 01:33 PM
You've dodged my question. Answer the question. In our financial situation, which free agent can we sign to improve things at the back?

We were crap in the last half hour today, no question. I'm not pleased with today at all but know the diffrence between form and quality and trust that with some minor tweaking in the transfer window PF will turn it around. He's a young manager and it's a team that was mostly put together in just the one transfer window, we are going to have days like today.

As each transfer window passes my expectations are we'll have less and less days like today, but I'm not going to cry into my pillow tonight about it just yet.

I admire your optimism, i really do however the whole 'we'll have days like today' attitude doesn't wash with me. The short and long of it is we're shippin goals left right and centre. If we want to be a team pushing for Europe (which undoubtedly we should be) days like today need and should be viewed as utterly unacceptable. Not brushed off with an 'it happens'. Today is the first day since he joined that I've felt properly p*ssed off with McPake and thats the way it should be! Fair doo's we were all frustrated yesterday but for him to commit that foul knowin he was on a booking then react to the red card by throwin the arm band away was ridiculous. To me it didn't show 'he cares' - it showed contempt for the club. No i in team.

heretoday
16-12-2012, 03:05 PM
dont be silly. If WE HAD THOSE FOUR UNTIL THE END OF THE SEASON, WE'D HAVE WON THE LEAGUE, AND YOU KNOW IT

You didn't see them stuffed 4-0 at Boghead, Dumbarton!

Northernhibee
16-12-2012, 04:56 PM
I admire your optimism, i really do however the whole 'we'll have days like today' attitude doesn't wash with me. The short and long of it is we're shippin goals left right and centre. If we want to be a team pushing for Europe (which undoubtedly we should be) days like today need and should be viewed as utterly unacceptable. Not brushed off with an 'it happens'. Today is the first day since he joined that I've felt properly p*ssed off with McPake and thats the way it should be! Fair doo's we were all frustrated yesterday but for him to commit that foul knowin he was on a booking then react to the red card by throwin the arm band away was ridiculous. To me it didn't show 'he cares' - it showed contempt for the club. No i in team.

Out of interest, at the end of last season what were your expectations for this season?

ancient hibee
16-12-2012, 05:26 PM
Some interesting comments about Inverness-how many goals have they lost compared to us again?-where are they in the league?

Hibs3-2
16-12-2012, 05:29 PM
Worst defender we have at the club. Lost count of the amount of goals he has cost us this season by his poor positional sense or lack of pace. Desperately need clancy back asap and a new back-up right back in january.

Mikey
16-12-2012, 05:30 PM
Maybury GTF

Dearie me.

ancient hibee
16-12-2012, 05:32 PM
Dearie me.



:agree:

Pretty Boy
16-12-2012, 05:34 PM
Easy scapegoat for some clearly.

There was at least one defender in the Hibs side worse than Maybury yesterday.

Golden Bear
16-12-2012, 05:36 PM
Worst defender we have at the club. Lost count of the amount of goals he has cost us this season by his poor positional sense or lack of pace. Desperately need clancy back asap and a new back-up right back in january.

The sadly predictable weekly Maybury thread.

Pathetic.

:yawn:

Hibs3-2
16-12-2012, 05:40 PM
Name me one game were he has had a "good game" cause i can't think of one

NORTHERNHIBBY
16-12-2012, 05:40 PM
Think Maybury is becoming an east target. Sure enough he makes mistakes, but more often than not his mistake is just the end point of someone making a mistake further up the pitch. If both your full backs are two-footed and can head the ball well and happy to be facing the play as well as having their back to the play, then it is not such an issue if your wider midfielders always leave you exposed.

lyonhibs
16-12-2012, 05:41 PM
I can't wait to get back to Scotland over Xmas to see just how abysmal Maybury is.

I'm expecting a Yam in Hibbie clothing, selling the jersey week in, week out who'll then come into my house on Xmas morning and piss on the turkey.

Gatecrasher
16-12-2012, 05:43 PM
I wouldn't have put the OP like that but AM has been a weak link for most of the season and I am praying Clancy comes back soon.
He seems to brick it every time a player runs at him and backs off. His performance against Hearts was woeful.

ancient hibee
16-12-2012, 05:45 PM
I wouldn't have put the OP like that but AM has been a weak link for most of the season and I am praying Clancy comes back soon.
He seems to brick it every time a player runs at him and backs off. His performance against Hearts was woeful.

Apart from the time he saved a certain goal presumably.

Gatecrasher
16-12-2012, 05:47 PM
Apart from the time he saved a certain goal presumably.
I'm not going to go over every play that game but look at the highlights, nearly every hearts attack came from his side.

ShanksSaidNo
16-12-2012, 05:47 PM
Out of interest, at the end of last season what were your expectations for this season?

To be perfectly honest with you going into this season i didn't know what to expect. Our poor performance last season doesn't mean we should become a club that readily accepts mediocrity and defeat as a given. This is exactly the attitude that Fenlon is trying to rid our club of.

SMAXXA
16-12-2012, 05:47 PM
Worst defender we have at the club. Lost count of the amount of goals he has cost us this season by his poor positional sense or lack of pace. Desperately need clancy back asap and a new back-up right back in january.

Give it a rest, this constant slate Maybury is getting a bit of a joke, yes he has been poor at times and has Hanlon, Mcpake and others.

Maybe we should bring back Kujabi and switch him and Mcgivern?

I though he was decent yest and played well against Hearts despite his blooper for the goal. He's been unfortunate the he seems to get punished with most mistakes unlike Hanlon and McPake.

Give the guy a break ffs

Kris1875
16-12-2012, 05:48 PM
Lets be honest he's not one of our best defenders but looking at them all there isn't many getting pass marks lately . He was brought in as a squad player and that's what he is , the injury to Clancy is unfortunate but its happened so maybury has to play there . Probably just me but how about we try and get behind our players that are playing yes he makes mistakes now and then but he isn't the only one .

Pretty Boy
16-12-2012, 05:51 PM
Probably not much help to Maybury that Wotherspoon seems to have decided tracking back and the defensive side of midfield play isn't for him over the last few weeks.

Cameron1875
16-12-2012, 05:53 PM
The way he is basically joined to mcpakes hip when opposition have a goal kick/free kick is embarrasing. Get the feeling he was only signed cause he is irish....

marinello59
16-12-2012, 05:53 PM
Worst defender we have at the club. Lost count of the amount of goals he has cost us this season by his poor positional sense or lack of pace. Desperately need clancy back asap and a new back-up right back in january.

How do you think McPake did in the three games prior to his absence through injury. Or yesterday? Should he GTF as well?
Maybury is a decent SPL standard defender. Just who do you think we should sign?

Pretty Boy
16-12-2012, 05:55 PM
The way he is basically joined to mcpakes hip when opposition have a goal kick/free kick is embarrasing. Get the feeling he was only signed cause he is irish....

Lol.

SMAXXA
16-12-2012, 06:12 PM
The way he is basically joined to mcpakes hip when opposition have a goal kick/free kick is embarrasing. Get the feeling he was only signed cause he is irish....

What you mean like, cairney, williams, claros, leigh and kuqi and Mcpake (I believe he is scottish altho now capped by NI and wasn't at the time)?

Maybe your right

Mikey
16-12-2012, 06:17 PM
Lol.


What you mean like, cairney, williams, claros, leigh and kuqi and Mcpake (I believe he is scottish altho now capped by NI and wasn't at the time)?

Maybe your right

It's unbelievable the nonsense that some people will come with :agree:

Bishop Hibee
16-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Midfield is where we lost that game not the defence. No pace and no one in the middle to hold on to the ball or be an attacking threat. Not to say the defence can't be improved upon.

Mr White
16-12-2012, 06:57 PM
Just watched the highlights and all 3 goals should have been defended better- same as last week. Crosses should have been stopped or at least blocked in the box- unmarked men in the 6 yard box with our defenders ball watching. School-boy standard really.

Jonnyboy
16-12-2012, 10:38 PM
Worst defender we have at the club. Lost count of the amount of goals he has cost us this season by his poor positional sense or lack of pace. Desperately need clancy back asap and a new back-up right back in january.

Well I guess you could say you're just living up to your name

Ozyhibby
16-12-2012, 11:38 PM
I can't wait to get back to Scotland over Xmas to see just how abysmal Maybury is.

I'm expecting a Yam in Hibbie clothing, selling the jersey week in, week out who'll then come into my house on Xmas morning and piss on the turkey.

Its unlikely he will piss on your turkey.

J-C
18-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Watched highlights again, goals from.corner, left and the right hand side, McPake definitely to blame for 2 goals. He was outmuscled by Higdon at the corner and went towards the ball from Humphreys cross, leaving the forward in space to score. He was what we needs last season but is starting to look like a weak link unfortunately, he did say he wasn't playing to his best, eta hope ge starts playing thee soon.

JimBHibees
18-12-2012, 05:27 PM
Watched highlights again, goals from.corner, left and the right hand side, McPake definitely to blame for 2 goals. He was outmuscled by Higdon at the corner and went towards the ball from Humphreys cross, leaving the forward in space to score. He was what we needs last season but is starting to look like a weak link unfortunately, he did say he wasn't playing to his best, eta hope ge starts playing thee soon.

I think it is impossible to put blame on any 1 player for the goals. Complete shambles to be honest. McGivern gets skinned for first pulled back Murphy completely unmarked assuming Spoony or Maybury meant to be marking no where near. Second header at back post and Murphy again unmarked. Last goal even worse Maybury lets the guy drive right into box, McPake tries to cut out cross and then Hanlon feeble attempt at a challenge.

Truly pub league stuff to be honest.

J-C
18-12-2012, 05:45 PM
Maybe you're right, hard to tell when at the game as it all happens so quickly, was the first time I'd seen the goals clearly and with slowmo replays.