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theonlywayisup
19-05-2012, 07:48 PM
Tom Farmer - owner of Hibs for over twenty years, two League Cups during that period. Team has been relegated once and close to it a few times. Saved us from Hertz take-over and managed us through a period when our debt increased to circa £16m then decreased to an acceptable level, whilst improving infrastructure.

Mad Vlad - owner of Hertz for over six years, two Scottish Cups and Champions League play-off qualification. Big debt has increased to mega levels, but despite reports of their demise they still hang around. Ground is not fit for purpose and we make jokes about them having to train at times when the students don't! They seem to win most Derbies!

Who would you rather? Please discuss!

leithsansiro
19-05-2012, 07:51 PM
Tom Farmer - owner of Hibs for over twenty years, two League Cups during that period. Team has been relegated once and close to it a few times. Saved us from Hertz take-over and managed us through a period when our debt increased to circa £16m then decreased to an acceptable level, whilst improving infrastructure.

Mad Vlad - owner of Hertz for over six years, two Scottish Cups and Champions League play-off qualification. Big debt has increased to mega levels, but despite reports of their demise they still hang around. Ground is not fit for purpose and we make jokes about them having to train at times when the students don't! They seem to win most Derbies!

Who would you rather? Please discuss!

Farmer, every time.
Romanov might spend some cash and have a higher profile, but the club (despite their derby wins and "better players") are always teetering on the brink of oblivion.
I'd rather Hibs play fair and retain their class, thanks very much

TheMentalHibees
19-05-2012, 07:54 PM
Tom Farmer - owner of Hibs for over twenty years, two League Cups during that period. Team has been relegated once and close to it a few times. Saved us from Hertz take-over and managed us through a period when our debt increased to circa £16m then decreased to an acceptable level, whilst improving infrastructure.

Mad Vlad - owner of Hertz for over six years, two Scottish Cups and Champions League play-off qualification. Big debt has increased to mega levels, but despite reports of their demise they still hang around. Ground is not fit for purpose and we make jokes about them having to train at times when the students don't! They seem to win most Derbies!

Who would you rather? Please discuss!

Farmer. I cannae wait for the open top bus to see us parade that balance sheet.

7Hero
19-05-2012, 08:03 PM
id rather have romanov by a country mile, I'm not deluded by the fact he is the hearts owner, the boy can service the debt and has delivered trophies and success..

Farmer meanwhile has run the club like a business with no ambition, to live by its means and be totally unexciting..

HibbySpurs
19-05-2012, 08:12 PM
id rather have romanov by a country mile, I'm not deluded by the fact he is the hearts owner, the boy can service the debt and has delivered trophies and success..

Farmer meanwhile has run the club like a business with no ambition, to live by its means and be totally unexciting..

To an extent I agree with you but I still think it will end in tears for Hearts, when you live that far beyond your means your totally at the mercy of all sorts of crap.

i.e. What if the banking industry flounders and Vlads interests go bristols up quick time? Do you think he'll care about Hearts?
OR
What if he dies/gets bumped off (You knever know coming from where he does).... Will his successors want to support them? Remember what happend to Gretna when their "great benefactor" became too ill, his family chucked the club overboard pretty quick.

I do however think that the owner of Hibs has to "speculate to accumulate" somewhat, nothing drastic is called for here (this is the SPL not EPL) but a fair investment could yield some long term returns.

I dont know maybe todays debacle could be the watershed where STF steps up and does just that (Can but live in hope, well I am a Hibby).

theonlywayisup
19-05-2012, 08:25 PM
To an extent I agree with you but I still think it will end in tears for Hearts, when you live that far beyond your means your totally at the mercy of all sorts of crap.

i.e. What if the banking industry flounders and Vlads interests go bristols up quick time? Do you think he'll care about Hearts?
OR
What if he dies/gets bumped off (You knever know coming from where he does).... Will his successors want to support them? Remember what happend to Gretna when their "great benefactor" became too ill, his family chucked the club overboard pretty quick.

I do however think that the owner of Hibs has to "speculate to accumulate" somewhat, nothing drastic is called for here (this is the SPL not EPL) but a fair investment could yield some long term returns.

I dont know maybe todays debacle could be the watershed where STF steps up and does just that (Can but live in hope, well I am a Hibby).

But Hertz situation would be nothing like Gretna. In Gretna's situation, they came from no-where and when he went there was no-one to step in to save them. If Mad Vlad died/bumped off there would be many that would step in. I know not to the same level of funding. But with administration an option to get rid of your debts, it would not be terminal.

McCrae
19-05-2012, 08:27 PM
Hearts have made a profit or the last 2 years ...

DaveF
19-05-2012, 08:28 PM
Hearts have made a profit or the last 2 years ...

Away to **** ya muppet.

HNA6
19-05-2012, 08:32 PM
Hearts have made a profit or the last 2 years ...
:faf:

Pretty Boy
19-05-2012, 08:35 PM
Hearts have made a profit or the last 2 years ...

Deary me.

chrisski33
19-05-2012, 08:36 PM
IF the spl vote to keep a newco rangers in the league maybe hearts would go down that route too so in that case id take mad vlad over farmer.

Lungo--Drom
19-05-2012, 08:39 PM
Fella are you reading their accounts balance sheet upside down or maybe misconverted the Pounds Sterling into Lithuanian Litas or vice versa? Gonna have to stop laughing or I'll wet masel' :D :D :D



Hearts have made a profit or the last 2 years ...

HibbySpurs
19-05-2012, 08:44 PM
Hearts have made a profit or the last 2 years ...


When are you on at The Stand mate?:faf:

The Falcon
19-05-2012, 08:45 PM
To an extent I agree with you but I still think it will end in tears for Hearts, when you live that far beyond your means your totally at the mercy of all sorts of crap.

i.e. What if the banking industry flounders and Vlads interests go bristols up quick time? Do you think he'll care about Hearts?
OR
What if he dies/gets bumped off (You knever know coming from where he does).... Will his successors want to support them? Remember what happend to Gretna when their "great benefactor" became too ill, his family chucked the club overboard pretty quick.

I do however think that the owner of Hibs has to "speculate to accumulate" somewhat, nothing drastic is called for here (this is the SPL not EPL) but a fair investment could yield some long term returns.

I dont know maybe todays debacle could be the watershed where STF steps up and does just that (Can but live in hope, well I am a Hibby).


Who has done that and made money in football?

Hibercelona
19-05-2012, 08:48 PM
Farmer, every time.
Romanov might spend some cash and have a higher profile, but the club (despite their derby wins and "better players") are always teetering on the brink of oblivion.
I'd rather Hibs play fair and retain their class, thanks very much

I'd much rather we had class on the pitch than off tbh.

loanheadhibby
20-05-2012, 07:51 AM
Tom Farmer - owner of Hibs for over twenty years, two League Cups during that period. Team has been relegated once and close to it a few times. Saved us from Hertz take-over and managed us through a period when our debt increased to circa £16m then decreased to an acceptable level, whilst improving infrastructure.

Mad Vlad - owner of Hertz for over six years, two Scottish Cups and Champions League play-off qualification. Big debt has increased to mega levels, but despite reports of their demise they still hang around. Ground is not fit for purpose and we make jokes about them having to train at times when the students don't! They seem to win most Derbies!

Who would you rather? Please discuss!

The mad one every time.

Farmers lack of interest is highlighted in his absence to rise to the challenge laid down by vlad. Both very wealthy people so must be driven by competition but sir Tom has not got the inner love of football we all have.

Vlad must lord it over him every time they meet. Would imagine sir Tom will be sitting on mad vlads mantelpiece today.

MyJo
20-05-2012, 08:36 AM
Hearts success has been bought with money they don't have just like rangers did and it might not be this year, might not be next year or even ten years down the line but it will come back to bite them at some point and it may very well cost them their club and their home and their history. Thats not a price I would be willing to pay.

We've been down this route before, once we were almost put out of business completely, the second time we nearly gave up Easter road and had to share a soulless stadium in a field outside of Edinburgh with those maroon tramps.

We chose to survive, we chose to stay in leith, we chose sporting integrity and I'd rather lose as a hibby a hundred times over than be a tramp celebrating a cheats victory

Hibercelona
20-05-2012, 08:42 AM
Hearts success has been bought with money they don't have just like rangers did and it might not be this year, might not be next year or even ten years down the line but it will come back to bite them at some point and it may very well cost them their club and their home and their history. Thats not a price I would be willing to pay.

We've been down this route before, once we were almost put out of business completely, the second time we nearly gave up Easter road and had to share a soulless stadium in a field outside of Edinburgh with those maroon tramps.

We chose to survive, we chose to stay in leith, we chose sporting integrity and I'd rather lose as a hibby a hundred times over than be a tramp celebrating a cheats victory

Sorry, but all this "money they don't have" talk is utter nonsense.

Yes, they pay their players late (quite a lot of the time), yet they still manage to do it. You can't pay players at all with money that isn't there, so clearly there is money there.

Vlad cleared up the debt he built up at the club, as if it was nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if he pushed more money into them next year so that they can hold on to their players and clear the debt off even further.

It hurts me as I type this, but we need to waken up to the fact that Hearts are on the up and up, yet we continue to spiral downwards by keeping the balance sheets neat and tidy.

spike220
20-05-2012, 08:47 AM
I want my son and his son to follow Hibs, for that reason we need to live within our means. Money on the never never always catches up with you. I would not at all be suprised to wake up one morning and find out the Jambos are no more.

Hibercelona
20-05-2012, 08:49 AM
I want my son and his son to follow Hibs, for that reason we need to live within our means. Money on the never never always catches up with you. I would not at all be suprised to wake up one morning and find out the Jambos are no more.

It's never going to happen. We're just deluding ourselves by thinking that it will.

When you wake up tomorrow, Hearts will still be there.

Mikeystewart
20-05-2012, 08:49 AM
Tom Farmer - owner of Hibs for over twenty years, two League Cups during that period. Team has been relegated once and close to it a few times. Saved us from Hertz take-over and managed us through a period when our debt increased to circa £16m then decreased to an acceptable level, whilst improving infrastructure.

Mad Vlad - owner of Hertz for over six years, two Scottish Cups and Champions League play-off qualification. Big debt has increased to mega levels, but despite reports of their demise they still hang around. Ground is not fit for purpose and we make jokes about them having to train at times when the students don't! They seem to win most Derbies!

Who would you rather? Please discuss!

Although every defeat regardless of the occasion is utterly soul destroying, but I would still much rather be in our shoes, we need to stop thinking about them and start focusing on our selves.

Sas_The_Hibby
20-05-2012, 08:57 AM
The mad one every time.

Farmers lack of interest is highlighted in his absence to rise to the challenge laid down by vlad. Both very wealthy people so must be driven by competition but sir Tom has not got the inner love of football we all have.Vlad must lord it over him every time they meet. Would imagine sir Tom will be sitting on mad vlads mantelpiece today.

And he's never made a secret of this. The important thing for him, when he first got involved, was to ensure Hibs' survival and he's done that. IMO it's not up to him to pump more of his own money into a sport he's not that interested in. If there's a super-rich Hibs benefactor out there, then fine, get TF to sell up but otherwise I think it's entirely up to the Board to work with the resources they've got which, as we well know, are pretty good, compared to most of the SPL.

RoYO!
20-05-2012, 08:59 AM
I was going to start a poll on this.

Genuinely interested.

Sporting integrity vs success is what it comes down to for me. You forgot to add bringing the club into disrepute by not paying wages/ coming out with drivel in press. Hiring/ defending sex offenders. Asset stripping the club in debt for equity.

However all that said I feel there would be a potential majority ( right now anyway) that would take the vlad option.

I'm no one of them!!

MyJo
20-05-2012, 09:01 AM
Sorry, but all this "money they don't have" talk is utter nonsense.

Yes, they pay their players late (quite a lot of the time), yet they still manage to do it. You can't pay players at all with money that isn't there, so clearly there is money there.

Vlad cleared up the debt he built up at the club, as if it was nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if he pushed more money into them next year so that they can hold on to their players and clear the debt off even further.

It hurts me as I type this, but we need to waken up to the fact that Hearts are on the up and up, yet we continue to spiral downwards by keeping the balance sheets neat and tidy.

Having a wages to turnover ratio of +100% Is the very definition of spending money they dont have and that is what they have been doing for the past 6 years, only now are they starting to rein it in and taking cost-cutting measures.

Vlad hasn't cleared any debt, they have done debt for equity swaps? What that means in real terms I have no idea but it isn't as simple as glad putting his hand in his pocket and paying off £30m in debt, there is a price to pay there, most likely to be the stadium.

And vlad isn't putting more money into them, he is allowing players to leave to save money, will focus on developing youth players (ie what we decided to do when we chose to stay at Easter road and live within our means ten years ago) and is actively looking to sell up and ship out ASAP.

RoYO!
20-05-2012, 09:21 AM
Sorry, but all this "money they don't have" talk is utter nonsense.

Yes, they pay their players late (quite a lot of the time), yet they still manage to do it. You can't pay players at all with money that isn't there, so clearly there is money there.

Vlad cleared up the debt he built up at the club, as if it was nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if he pushed more money into them next year so that they can hold on to their players and clear the debt off even further.

It hurts me as I type this, but we need to waken up to the fact that Hearts are on the up and up, yet we continue to spiral downwards by keeping the balance sheets neat and tidy.

Vlad cleared up the debt he built up?!? Congratulations thats the response he was looking for the yams to come out with. He hasn't made it disappear he's taken the only asset they have in the stadium. they want the stadium back when he goes? It'll cost them.

He has also stated time and again, including the morning of the final, that he is completely finished with putting money in.

Next year should see a more sustainable hearts team and one that Tries to live within their means- that should level the playing field. However the infrastructure at the club will still range from non existent to condemned at any moment.

Hibercelona
20-05-2012, 09:27 AM
Having a wages to turnover ratio of +100% Is the very definition of spending money they dont have and that is what they have been doing for the past 6 years, only now are they starting to rein it in and taking cost-cutting measures.

Vlad hasn't cleared any debt, they have done debt for equity swaps? What that means in real terms I have no idea but it isn't as simple as glad putting his hand in his pocket and paying off £30m in debt, there is a price to pay there, most likely to be the stadium.

And vlad isn't putting more money into them, he is allowing players to leave to save money, will focus on developing youth players (ie what we decided to do when we chose to stay at Easter road and live within our means ten years ago) and is actively looking to sell up and ship out ASAP.

I never said he paid off all their debt though, did I? :confused:

I said he paid the debt off that he built up himself, so in other words, they are back down to the level of debt they were at when he first came in and now have 2 Scottish Cup wins to add to their history.

All this talk about them going bust is cringeworthy. It's clearly never going to happen.

BarneyK
20-05-2012, 09:33 AM
I'd much rather we had class on the pitch than off tbh.

The class of the players to ignore their own supporters when scoring a cup final goal to gloat in front of the opposition fans? I think "class" is the wrong word you're looking for here.

Baader
20-05-2012, 09:34 AM
Might as well just give up if we want to start emulating them...