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Cropley10
29-04-2012, 04:36 PM
Won't be here in November IMHO.

Terrible record and I see no improvement. We play for hours and don't score.

HibeeMG
29-04-2012, 04:38 PM
That does it.

I'm taking myself away from Hibs.net for a while. At least until people have had a chance to sleep on things and stop posting *****e like the above!

I'll miss the Rangers in Admin thread though.

smurf
29-04-2012, 04:39 PM
Should we get relegated he shouldn't be here in the summer!

He has to finally win a home SPL game a week on Monday.

CabbageBoy
29-04-2012, 04:40 PM
That does it.

I'm taking myself away from Hibs.net for a while. At least until people have had a chance to sleep on things and stop posting *****e like the above!

I'll miss the Rangers in Admin thread though.

What; his record is dreadful, worse than Calderwoods by far. If we werent in a cup final he'd be on his way in the summer. His complete lack of nous will see him sacked in November as the original poster said, because the only thing that will keep us up is Rangers going bust now.

Cropley10
29-04-2012, 04:41 PM
That does it.

I'm taking myself away from Hibs.net for a while. At least until people have had a chance to sleep on things and stop posting *****e like the above!

I'll miss the Rangers in Admin thread though.

:bye:

Nothing has changed. Open your eyes. Petrie has done it AGAIN!

Littlest Hobo
29-04-2012, 04:43 PM
Not interested in his short term record, he's been given a thankless task of keeping us up. If he does that then he starts from scratch next season.

He's improved us in my opinion.

The_Horde
29-04-2012, 04:43 PM
:bye:

Nothing has changed. Open your eyes. Petrie has done it AGAIN!

We could hire Jose flipping Mourinho and we'd be in the same state. Not Fenlon's fault we are where we are, people need to start looking deeper for our problems.

smurf
29-04-2012, 04:44 PM
:bye:

Nothing has changed. Open your eyes. Petrie has done it AGAIN!

It is far too early to say. We simply must not be relegated and competing in the cup final is a must.

We must unite and support the club to SPL safety and Scottish Cup success.

Cropley10
29-04-2012, 04:44 PM
Not interested in his short term record, he's been given a thankless task of keeping us up. If he does that then he starts from scratch next season.

He's improved us in my opinion.

Fair enough. Where would you say we've improved?

Part/Time Supporter
29-04-2012, 04:44 PM
Fair enough. Where would you say we've improved?

Central defence, vastly.

What's killing Hibs is a) lack of creativity in midfield and b) having absolutely no competent forwards other than the oft-injured GOC and the oft-suspended Griffiths. If those two are available at the same time they have good chances of winning games, without either (or god forbid, both) they are in trouble.

Littlest Hobo
29-04-2012, 04:45 PM
We need to get behind the team now lads......let's be having ya :aok::flag:

Cropley10
29-04-2012, 04:46 PM
It is far too early to say. We simply must not be relegated and competing in the cup final is a must.

We must unite and support the club to SPL safety and Scottish Cup success.

I agree. I was trying to make the point that on this course and heading he'll be oot the door by the time of AGM, it's like Groundhog Day.

stanton10
29-04-2012, 04:47 PM
;3201761']We could hire Jose flipping Mourinho and we'd be in the same state. Not Fenlon's fault we are where we are, people need to start looking deeper for our problems.

Having your main striker taking corners does not help the lack of goals, get him in the box ,coaching staff are you watching the games.

Famous5forever
29-04-2012, 04:49 PM
:bye:

Nothing has changed. Open your eyes. Petrie has done it AGAIN!

RP Never appointed PF But regardless Paddy has 2 games to save his job and he must win both the home game v Dunfy and the Cup Final if he wins these games he is a Hero:pfgwa


if it goes wrong he wont last till the night before the AGM. He must get his first home win and i beleive he will:flag:

Sean1875
29-04-2012, 04:50 PM
Having your main striker taking corners does not help the lack of goals, get him in the box ,coaching staff are you watching the games.
Yes, Sparkys overhwhelming towering, physical presence could be well used from corners... :rolleyes:

Cropley10
29-04-2012, 04:54 PM
RP Never appointed PF But regardless Paddy has 2 games to save his job and he must win both the home game v Dunfy and the Cup Final if he wins these games he is a Hero:pfgwa


if it goes wrong he wont last till the night before the AGM. He must get his first home win and i beleive he will:flag:

What if we're relegated and somehow fail to win the Cup?

CallumLaidlaw
29-04-2012, 04:54 PM
Still behind Fenlon. Team look more organised. I still think that a team of mostly loan signings is gonna make things difficult and with his own permanent signings in the summer it will be different. I wonder if people think he should get sacked if we win the cup. Let's get behind a manager rather than demand they get sacked after a few games.

loanheadhibby
29-04-2012, 04:59 PM
Yes, Sparkys overhwhelming towering, physical presence could be well used from corners... :rolleyes:

Aye and if the ball bobbles about in the 6 yard box he'll be a lot of good at the corner flag!

Famous5forever
29-04-2012, 04:59 PM
What if we're relegated and somehow fail to win the Cup?

Then he would be sacked

Sean1875
29-04-2012, 05:01 PM
Aye and if the ball bobbles about in the 6 yard box he'll be a lot of good at the corner flag!

We shouldnt have to rely on a striker to hit the target from 6 yards out. If Sparky is the best at taking corners, why put him in the box for the slight chance the ball might fall right to his feet from 6 yards out, instead of providing a decent ball in for 8 players to go and challenge?

stanton10
29-04-2012, 05:02 PM
Yes, Sparkys overhwhelming towering, physical presence could be well used from corners... :rolleyes:

If you know anything about the game ,predators dont have to be huge, just being in the right place will do for a start.

Dashing Bob S
29-04-2012, 05:05 PM
Central defence, vastly.

What's killing Hibs is a) lack of creativity in midfield and b) having absolutely no competent forwards other than the oft-injured GOC and the oft-suspended Griffiths. If those two are available at the same time they have good chances of winning games, without either (or god forbid, both) they are in trouble.

Nutshell. Hibs are still not great but they at least have the makings of a decent side. Under Calderwood they were a complete joke.

Sammy7nil
29-04-2012, 05:07 PM
We shouldnt have to rely on a striker to hit the target from 6 yards out. If Sparky is the best at taking corners, why put him in the box for the slight chance the ball might fall right to his feet from 6 yards out, instead of providing a decent ball in for 8 players to go and challenge?

His delivery from corners is poor.

Gerd Muller Ally McCoist and John Robertson and lots of other strikers made a living by reacting quicker in the 6yd box than lumbering defenders Griffiths should be doing the same as his last 50 or so corners have produced ZILCH

loanheadhibby
29-04-2012, 05:07 PM
We shouldnt have to rely on a striker to hit the target from 6 yards out. If Sparky is the best at taking corners, why put him in the box for the slight chance the ball might fall right to his feet from 6 yards out, instead of providing a decent ball in for 8 players to go and challenge?

Could Stevenson or kujabi not whip a corner in and leave griffiths to do what he specialises in I.e. stick it in the net?

Everything about our club that only 1 player has the quality to take a corner.

Onion
29-04-2012, 05:11 PM
Won't be here in November IMHO.

Terrible record and I see no improvement. We play for hours and don't score.

Now is not the time to panic. Yes, this could yet go 2 ways - it could be the worst season in Hibs history (relegation and beat by the Yams in the SC Final)

OR it could be the BEST season any Hibs fans have had in 60 YEARS (stay up and beat the Yams in the Scottish Cup Final). In that case, Fenlon will be revered for EVER in Leith and unable to buy a drink for the rest of his days.

So, time to stay calm. We are STILL very much favourites to stay up and need to cheer the team over the line next Monday. JJ has never let us down before :greengrin

Gatecrasher
29-04-2012, 05:11 PM
anyone remember that film groundhog day with Bill Murray?
I get that feeling every time a thread like this appears. We just keep living the same old **** over and over.

kevinc
29-04-2012, 05:14 PM
RP Never appointed PF But regardless Paddy has 2 games to save his job and he must win both the home game v Dunfy and the Cup Final if he wins these games he is a Hero:pfgwa


if it goes wrong he wont last till the night before the AGM. He must get his first home win and i beleive he will:flag:

Of course he did.

dutchhibby
29-04-2012, 05:18 PM
What if we're relegated and somehow fail to win the Cup?

il go on holiday for a month or 2 :thumbsup:

hibbygraham
29-04-2012, 05:20 PM
Improvement is relative. We're still playing with very little, if any, tactical nous. If we come out the next four games happy - which, bizarrely, I think we will - it will be due to luck. I'm ambivalent when it comes to Fenlon; it's too hard to discern between Calderwood's legacy/Fenlon's ability.

21.05.2016
29-04-2012, 05:20 PM
Nutshell. Hibs are still not great but they at least have the makings of a decent side. Under Calderwood they were a complete joke.

:agree:

Northernhibee
29-04-2012, 05:21 PM
Some people need to learn about the game of football and man up.

CC collapsed as he tried to merely paper over the cracks created by Yogi (club culture mostly) and it was nothing more than a quick fix.

We've rid ourselves of the awful influences within the team (getting rid of Palsson and Agogo was a great move). We'll stay up this year as PF has shown in LOI that when the chips are down, he can get results and after that we'll see more of a full rebuild of Hibs.

Blaming things on having Sparky taking corners is ridiculous, we've been picking up points against bottom 6 sides since his temporary team came in, that point against Motherwell showed courage. We've conceded less since our LM and RM have sat deeper and reduced the amount of crosses coming at our defence, our CBs have been solid since Hanlon has been mopping up for anything left by McPake.

This summer we need a creative midfielder (Swanson could be good if he keeps himself fit, Hayes would be good too) but when PF took over, he had the square root of **** all to work with and you can't change that overnight.

When he took over, I think we all agreed that it was going to take at least a couple of seasons to turn us around. To start calling for PFs head shows panic, a lack of heart and absolute cowardice.

In PF we trust.

Littlest Hobo
29-04-2012, 05:21 PM
Fair enough. Where would you say we've improved?

McPake at the back. :agree:

Pa Kujabi at left back. :agree:

Docherty at right back :agree:

Osbourne in midfield :agree:

Griffiths up front :agree:

Viva_Palmeiras
29-04-2012, 05:31 PM
Then he would be sacked
Aye you and your crystal balls - that's why you walk funny.

R'Albin
29-04-2012, 05:38 PM
Sorry but what a load of *****. I usually don't get annoyed at stuff I read on here but this has just irritated me. I'm doubting Fenlon, but to dismiss him as not good enough is ****ing ridiculous. If Calderwood was still in charge we'd be dead and buried and nae in a Scottish Cup final.

R'Albin
29-04-2012, 05:39 PM
Some people need to learn about the game of football and man up.

CC collapsed as he tried to merely paper over the cracks created by Yogi (club culture mostly) and it was nothing more than a quick fix.

We've rid ourselves of the awful influences within the team (getting rid of Palsson and Agogo was a great move). We'll stay up this year as PF has shown in LOI that when the chips are down, he can get results and after that we'll see more of a full rebuild of Hibs.

Blaming things on having Sparky taking corners is ridiculous, we've been picking up points against bottom 6 sides since his temporary team came in, that point against Motherwell showed courage. We've conceded less since our LM and RM have sat deeper and reduced the amount of crosses coming at our defence, our CBs have been solid since Hanlon has been mopping up for anything left by McPake.

This summer we need a creative midfielder (Swanson could be good if he keeps himself fit, Hayes would be good too) but when PF took over, he had the square root of **** all to work with and you can't change that overnight.

When he took over, I think we all agreed that it was going to take at least a couple of seasons to turn us around. To start calling for PFs head shows panic, a lack of heart and absolute cowardice.

In PF we trust.


:top marks

Cropley10
29-04-2012, 05:56 PM
Sorry but what a load of *****. I usually don't get annoyed at stuff I read on here but this has just irritated me. I'm doubting Fenlon, but to dismiss him as not good enough is ****ing ridiculous. If Calderwood was still in charge we'd be dead and buried and nae in a Scottish Cup final.

I'm just not getting this whole Cup Final thing - we don't look like beating anyone. We hardly create a chance. We hardly score. Fenlon's not beaten any team in the top 6. He's not come close to beating Hearts. Sure it's a 90 min game and anything can happen, but he's hardly been some mastermind, we got the luck of the draw in the Semi, and then just edged it. Saying he's better than Calderwood isn't much of a comparison, Caldwerwood was shocking - Fenlon record is simply better in the Cup, not the League. Fenlon's extremely good at putting out Hibs teams who lose League games, over and over again, and especially when we play at home.

Sammy7nil
29-04-2012, 06:02 PM
I'm just not getting this whole Cup Final thing - we don't look like beating anyone. We hardly create a chance. We hardly score. Fenlon's not beaten any team in the top 6. He's not come close to beating Hearts. Sure it's a 90 min game and anything can happen, but he's hardly been some mastermind, we got the luck of the draw in the Semi, and then just edged it. Saying he's better than Calderwood isn't much of a comparison, Caldwerwood was shocking - Fenlon record is simply better in the Cup, not the League. Fenlon's extremely good at putting out Hibs teams who lose League games, over and over again, and especially when we play at home.

I want Pat to be a success but I can't argue with that.

He needs to change something and quick.
P.S. Billy Broon has done nothing suggest he should have remained there.

Famous5forever
29-04-2012, 06:05 PM
I'm just not getting this whole Cup Final thing - we don't look like beating anyone. We hardly create a chance. We hardly score. Fenlon's not beaten any team in the top 6. He's not come close to beating Hearts. Sure it's a 90 min game and anything can happen, but he's hardly been some mastermind, we got the luck of the draw in the Semi, and then just edged it. Saying he's better than Calderwood isn't much of a comparison, Caldwerwood was shocking - Fenlon record is simply better in the Cup, not the League. Fenlon's extremely good at putting out Hibs teams who lose League games, over and over again, and especially when we play at home.


There is nothing we can do about it now WE SIMPLY HAVE TO TRUST PADDY TO PICK THINGS UP AND GET IT SORTED ASAP.

JIm
29-04-2012, 06:12 PM
Whilst i think the personel have improved under Fenlon i'm afraid we havent actually got that much better. I hate to criticise cause i would love to be wrong but i dont see that much improvement. For me we have a group of players who are sent out with out with lack of instruction. Training is poor and there is no set style of play. Today was a perfect example of this, lack of width, lack of support to the front two, and lack of invention throughout the team. We are in deep trouble, only saving grace might be that Dunf are that little bit poorer.

Beefster
29-04-2012, 06:18 PM
Not interested in his short term record, he's been given a thankless task of keeping us up. If he does that then he starts from scratch next season.

He's improved us in my opinion.

A thankless task of keeping us up? Really? We were in 9th place with a better points per game ratio when he took over.


Central defence, vastly.

What's killing Hibs is a) lack of creativity in midfield and b) having absolutely no competent forwards other than the oft-injured GOC and the oft-suspended Griffiths. If those two are available at the same time they have good chances of winning games, without either (or god forbid, both) they are in trouble.

Not in any tangible way. At the end of 2011, we had conceded an average of 1.65 goals per SPL game. Now, our average conceded per game is 1.83. It's even worse if we take it from Calderwood being sacked.

McPake is a rock but the rest of his signings (Doyle, Kujabi, Doherty, O'Donovan, Francombe and Claros) have been somewhere between mediocre and rubbish.

I've renewed and have no problem with folk backing Fenlon but all the evidence that we've improved since he took over is purely anecdotal. I still think that we'll win the cup though. I'm not so certain of staying up unfortunately (although I don't have us doomed like some bed-wetters).

hibs0666
29-04-2012, 06:31 PM
Won't be here in November IMHO.

Terrible record and I see no improvement. We play for hours and don't score.

Now is not the time for bottles to be crashing and to be having a pop.

R'Albin
29-04-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm just not getting this whole Cup Final thing - we don't look like beating anyone. We hardly create a chance. We hardly score. Fenlon's not beaten any team in the top 6. He's not come close to beating Hearts. Sure it's a 90 min game and anything can happen, but he's hardly been some mastermind, we got the luck of the draw in the Semi, and then just edged it. Saying he's better than Calderwood isn't much of a comparison, Caldwerwood was shocking - Fenlon record is simply better in the Cup, not the League. Fenlon's extremely good at putting out Hibs teams who lose League games, over and over again, and especially when we play at home.

I'll give you that, we are crap at the moment. But he inherited a god-awful team and had to bulk buy in January, without risking any big permanent signings because we can't risk having a big wage bill in division 1.

So he basically had the choice of signing free players permanently, which finding good ones in January is pretty hard on our budget, or he had the choice of replacing them with loanees.

The issue with having a team filled with loans/short term signings is that it means **** all to a lot of them whether we stay up or not. Scottish cup win would look good on their resume, but staying up obviously doesn't make a difference to half of them as they will be long gone by the end of the season.

Do I think he's perfect - not at all - but to say he's a crap manager, only judging him by a team he had to create in a month, is ridiculous. I'm not guarenteeing that he's going to suceed, but for christ sakes lets give the man a fair crack at the whip before dismissing him as *****.

Cropley10
29-04-2012, 06:48 PM
I'll give you that, we are crap at the moment. But he inherited a god-awful team and had to bulk buy in January, without risking any big permanent signings because we can't risk having a big wage bill in division 1.

So he basically had the choice of signing free players permanently, which finding good ones in January is pretty hard on our budget, or he had the choice of replacing them with loanees.

The issue with having a team filled with loans/short term signings is that it means **** all to a lot of them whether we stay up or not. Scottish cup win would look good on their resume, but staying up obviously doesn't make a difference to half of them as they will be long gone by the end of the season.

Do I think he's perfect - not at all - but to say he's a crap manager, only judging him by a team he had to create in a month, is ridiculous. I'm not guarenteeing that he's going to suceed, but for christ sakes lets give the man a fair crack at the whip before dismissing him as *****.

A fair post.

I didn't actually say he was a crap manager - I was trying, badly, to make the point that we change the man at the helm, but nothing else changes. And in that case, history tells us, he won't be here in November either...

R'Albin
29-04-2012, 06:51 PM
A fair post.

I didn't actually say he was a crap manager - I was trying, badly, to make the point that we change the man at the helm, but nothing else changes. And in that case, history tells us, he won't be here in November either...

Apoligies, I think I misinterpreted the OP,

I agree with that to be honest :agree:

Alfred E Newman
29-04-2012, 06:52 PM
Improvement is relative. We're still playing with very little, if any, tactical nous. If we come out the next four games happy - which, bizarrely, I think we will - it will be due to luck. I'm ambivalent when it comes to Fenlon; it's too hard to discern between Calderwood's legacy/Fenlon's ability.

His job when he took over was to keep us up someway or another. Hopefully he will do that, but like you I think it is going to come down to luck .
There is no doubt though that the style and quality of football on display at the moment is shocking and a far cry from the type of football we have traditionally enjoyed at Easter Road over the years. Felons long ball game is ineffective and awful to watch and if that is his long term plan , the guy will struggle to put bums on seats which will inevitably cost him his job.

Steven_Hibs
29-04-2012, 06:53 PM
;3201761']We could hire Jose flipping Mourinho and we'd be in the same state.

But if we did, maybe, just maybe, players would be playing in the correct positions and we might have a set piece plan :greengrin

JIm
29-04-2012, 06:59 PM
But if we did, maybe, just maybe, players would be playing in the correct positions and we might have a set piece plan :greengrin

Or a plan full stop.....................HOOOOOOOOOOOOF!

BS44
29-04-2012, 07:21 PM
His delivery from corners is poor.

Gerd Muller Ally McCoist and John Robertson and lots of other strikers made a living by reacting quicker in the 6yd box than lumbering defenders Griffiths should be doing the same as his last 50 or so corners have produced ZILCH

Hanlon's goal at Inverness? This could round and round in circles because you are all right. Griffiths possibly would be better in the box at
corners but until we get someone in the team who can take a better corner then Griffiths will keep taking them.

JIm
29-04-2012, 07:22 PM
Hanlon's goal at Inverness? This could round and round in circles because you are all right. Griffiths possibly would be better in the box at
corners but until we get someone in the team who can take a better corner then Griffiths will keep taking them.

Came off the back of his third corner. The two before that never got past the front post.

ancient hibee
29-04-2012, 07:28 PM
His job when he took over was to keep us up someway or another. Hopefully he will do that, but like you I think it is going to come down to luck .
There is no doubt though that the style and quality of football on display at the moment is shocking and a far cry from the type of football we have traditionally enjoyed at Easter Road over the years. Felons long ball game is ineffective and awful to watch and if that is his long term plan , the guy will struggle to put bums on seats which will inevitably cost him his job.


Unfortunately the quality of football we have enjoyed over the years has not actually been all that evident in much more than 5 years out of the last 20.

dmc1875
29-04-2012, 07:28 PM
Hanlon's goal at Inverness? This could round and round in circles because you are all right. Griffiths possibly would be better in the box at
corners but until we get someone in the team who can take a better corner then Griffiths will keep taking them.

Francombes deliveries from what I have seen are far better than Griffiths... :agree:

BS44
29-04-2012, 07:44 PM
Francombes deliveries from what I have seen are far better than Griffiths... :agree:

Quite possibly. But he can only take them if he is in the team.

hopefulhibby
29-04-2012, 07:50 PM
Not interested in his short term record, he's been given a thankless task of keeping us up. If he does that then he starts from scratch next season.

He's improved us in my opinion.
You must be joking or be his mate or else your just bonkers... LOOK AT THE RESULTS UNDER PF

JimBHibees
29-04-2012, 07:55 PM
Still behind Fenlon. Team look more organised. I still think that a team of mostly loan signings is gonna make things difficult and with his own permanent signings in the summer it will be different. I wonder if people think he should get sacked if we win the cup. Let's get behind a manager rather than demand they get sacked after a few games.

Completely agree. He needs time to bring in his own team. Summer is the time to really revamp the squad and bring in players he wants. Even if we go down he should be given the opportunity to sort us out and bring us back up stronger.

Ozyhibby
29-04-2012, 08:01 PM
Pat Fenlon's record is abysmal. However, saying so on here just leads to loads of abuse. Best to keep it to yourself.

R'Albin
29-04-2012, 08:03 PM
Pat Fenlon's record is abysmal. However, saying so on here just leads to loads of abuse. Best to keep it to yourself.

It is. I'll admit that. Judging him on the short window of time he has had to bring in players is ridiculous though, don't you think?

JIm
29-04-2012, 08:07 PM
Completely agree. He needs time to bring in his own team. Summer is the time to really revamp the squad and bring in players he wants. Even if we go down he should be given the opportunity to sort us out and bring us back up stronger.

My concern is his style of play. I have no doubt that he can sign decent players and organise a team, but i reckon i could do that to be honest. The style of play is what worries me? For me a Hibs manager coming in should have a philosphy on how he wants his team to play. I know for a fact that there is very little going on in the training ground to change what we are doing on the park. Out of curiosity am i the only person concerned by this?

hopefulhibby
29-04-2012, 08:13 PM
My concern is his style of play. I have no doubt that he can sign decent players and organise a team, but i reckon i could do that to be honest. The style of play is what worries me? For me a Hibs manager coming in should have a philosphy on how he wants his team to play. I know for a fact that there is very little going on in the training ground to change what we are doing on the park. Out of curiosity am i the only person concerned by this?
We dont have a style of play, its just play the ball into the channels all the time and hope for the best, from what i have seen style and PF DON'T BELONG IN THE SAME SENTENCE

Cameron1875
29-04-2012, 08:16 PM
I am slightly surprised that Pat never signed an attacking midfielder in Jan and i think thats whats costing us at the moment. Lets just see where we are in 3 games time. Its no good people turning on each other now, thats exactly what Dunfermline will want.

Win up in aberdeen and we're safe. I just hope Fenlon doesn't play wasters like soares who turned in a disgusting performance today.

JIm
29-04-2012, 08:18 PM
I am slightly surprised that Pat never signed an attacking midfielder in Jan and i think thats whats costing us at the moment. Lets just see where we are in 3 games time. Its no good people turning on each other now, thats exactly what Dunfermline will want.

Win up in aberdeen and we're safe. I just hope Fenlon doesn't play wasters like soares who turned in a disgusting performance today.

Whats the point in an attacking midfielder if your going to constantly bypass the midfield?

Danderhall Hibs
29-04-2012, 08:20 PM
It is. I'll admit that. Judging him on the short window of time he has had to bring in players is ridiculous though, don't you think?

Wee bit frustrating that he can't get anything out of either the guys that were already there or the guys he brought in though?

bawheid
29-04-2012, 08:21 PM
Terrible thread.

Have a word with yourself OP, for ****'s sake.

Littlest Hobo
29-04-2012, 08:23 PM
A thankless task of keeping us up? Really? We were in 9th place with a better points per game ratio when he took over.



Not in any tangible way. At the end of 2011, we had conceded an average of 1.65 goals per SPL game. Now, our average conceded per game is 1.83. It's even worse if we take it from Calderwood being sacked.

McPake is a rock but the rest of his signings (Doyle, Kujabi, Doherty, O'Donovan, Francombe and Claros) have been somewhere between mediocre and rubbish.

I've renewed and have no problem with folk backing Fenlon but all the evidence that we've improved since he took over is purely anecdotal. I still think that we'll win the cup though. I'm not so certain of staying up unfortunately (although I don't have us doomed like some bed-wetters).

Stats are a funny thing, they don't take into account the fact that PF was left with a pile of ***** and has had to try and gel a bunch of players together in a short period of time.

The only stat I'm interested in is that we are above Dunfermline at the end of the season. Then and only then will I start to judge PF on his long term signings.

It's shakey ground criticising the manager at this stage of the season, when really we need to get behind the man.

The last thing we need is to be sacking our manager again, so I suggest you put your little stat book away for now and get real.

hopefulhibby
29-04-2012, 08:24 PM
Wee bit frustrating that he can't get anything out of either the guys that were already there or the guys he brought in though?Spot on

Cameron1875
29-04-2012, 08:29 PM
Whats the point in an attacking midfielder if your going to constantly bypass the midfield?

I thought we played through midfield alot except the last 10 mins. Just curious as to why Fenlon thought a midfield of stevenson, ozzy, soares, francomb is good enough. Ozzy is half decent when he can be assed but the rest are mince.

Famous5forever
29-04-2012, 08:30 PM
spot on

It may be that PF is not the manager that would have been first choice when he was appointed but who would have been and would that person have come to Hibs following Calderwood.

Rather than Fenlon going I think we'll be lucky to see maybe two of the current squad if we are in the SPL next season.
I think we will be as we're still in pole position and we've to play Dunfermline so I'm hopeful of a positive outcome.

If we're relegated then the squad might just be good enough for division 1.

We seem to be world beaters when we win a game and go to proposing we sack everyone at Easter Road when we lose.
Perhaps it's a wake up call for the final, the Calderwood team was 100% gantin, the current team is 5% better. Not a snowballs chance in hell.
A pessimist is what an Optimist calls a realist.

Calderwoods team was mince yes but we did manage a 3-0 win at Ibrox, whilst Paddys record like for like v Calderwood is a lot worse i would say that we look a bit more organised.
What worries me is fat jim seems to have went inti dunfy and somehow got them picking up points almost like a bounce with the same resources.

R'Albin
29-04-2012, 08:54 PM
Wee bit frustrating that he can't get anything out of either the guys that were already there or the guys he brought in though?

Definately, once again though maybe that's just a general losing mentality that seems to be engrained into the club at the moment, or that they're all loanees and don't care about how we do.

I don't know, but yeah I agree with you.

Beefster
29-04-2012, 08:57 PM
Stats are a funny thing, they don't take into account the fact that PF was left with a pile of ***** and has had to try and gel a bunch of players together in a short period of time.

The only stat I'm interested in is that we are above Dunfermline at the end of the season. Then and only then will I start to judge PF on his long term signings.

It's shakey ground criticising the manager at this stage of the season, when really we need to get behind the man.

The last thing we need is to be sacking our manager again, so I suggest you put your little stat book away for now and get real.

You completely missed the point. My point was that folk keep saying that Fenlon has improved us which doesn't stand up to scrutiny (which you've done again in your post). There was no criticism of the manager by me.

Thanks for the advice but I live in the real world. That's why I pull folk up for claiming, as fact, stuff that isn't based on evidence.

jimmy-adjovi
29-04-2012, 09:01 PM
Won't be here in November IMHO.

Terrible record and I see no improvement. We play for hours and don't score.

Hibs.net is an utter embarrassment to hibs. Fenlon does not deserve this and has improved the team. Thankfully most posters on here don't seem to make their way from the computer into er on a saturday so fenlon doesn't hear the nonsense that gets posted

IWasThere2016
29-04-2012, 09:03 PM
You completely missed the point. My point was that folk keep saying that Fenlon has improved us which doesn't stand up to scrutiny (which you've done again in your post). There was no criticism of the manager by me.

Thanks for the advice but I live in the real world. That's why I pull folk up for claiming, as fact, stuff that isn't based on evidence.

:top marks

tamig
29-04-2012, 09:10 PM
Having your main striker taking corners does not help the lack of goals, get him in the box ,coaching staff are you watching the games.

Ridiculous comment. What about Riordan when he was here? Or Robin van Persie at Arsenal?

One Day Soon
29-04-2012, 09:38 PM
I'm just not getting this whole Cup Final thing - we don't look like beating anyone. We hardly create a chance. We hardly score. Fenlon's not beaten any team in the top 6. He's not come close to beating Hearts. Sure it's a 90 min game and anything can happen, but he's hardly been some mastermind, we got the luck of the draw in the Semi, and then just edged it. Saying he's better than Calderwood isn't much of a comparison, Caldwerwood was shocking - Fenlon record is simply better in the Cup, not the League. Fenlon's extremely good at putting out Hibs teams who lose League games, over and over again, and especially when we play at home.

Seriously, did someone pee in your cornflakes when you were a kid or something? Your unrelenting, negative, doomsday, end of the world is nigh attitude is the most remarkably consistent thing about your posts. And they are utterly pointless at this stage. Your diet of misery carefully treasured and rehashed at every opportunity will do precisely nothing to help between now and the end of the season. If things go bad then fine, let's have a full on inquest. But until then can you not at least say nothing if you can't say anything positive? Just give the team the faintest glimmer of a chance of a bit of positivity. The cup final is 90 minutes between two teams - doesn't matter how good or bad they have been all season (and the Yams haven't been particularly good). The league depends on the Dunfermline game.

We are on a ship. It might be the Titanic or it might be the QE2. Let's find out which first before we start holding the inquest eh?

Hibby 2005
29-04-2012, 09:39 PM
Wached the game online and never got the impression the players were playing as if their lives depended on it, no sense of urgency at all in the first half.

Major wake-up call might be finally sinking in with some of them, hope it's not too late.

As for Fenlon, he has us organised but it's pretty grim viewing.

Ozyhibby
29-04-2012, 09:44 PM
Hibs.net is an utter embarrassment to hibs. Fenlon does not deserve this and has improved the team. Thankfully most posters on here don't seem to make their way from the computer into er on a saturday so fenlon doesn't hear the nonsense that gets posted

In what way has he improved the team?
We are winning less points per game since he arrived.
We are conceding more goals per game since he arrived.
We are scoring less goals per game since he arrived.
I'm really struggling to see how he has improved the team?

Emerald
29-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Improvement is relative. We're still playing with very little, if any, tactical nous. If we come out the next four games happy - which, bizarrely, I think we will - it will be due to luck. I'm ambivalent when it comes to Fenlon; it's too hard to discern between Calderwood's legacy/Fenlon's ability.

What a post! You just put in a few words exactly where we are. "Improvement is relative", if you have a 30 year old car and replace it with a 15 year old car its an improvement but its still mince compared to the new ones everyone else is driving. In my lifetime, I cannot remember us ever being as bad (e.g. results at home) but as long as we're a bit better than with CC then its ok with some folk! Any slight improvement, which there has been, has not resulted in wins or points and that is the measure we have to use.

On another matter why does LG take the corners and free kicks (I don't mean the direct scoring type)? Surely one of your top striker should be in the box sniffing about for goal scoring chances and not 30 yards away. Any half decent schoolboy footy player should be able whip in a corner. :confused:

DH1875
29-04-2012, 10:46 PM
Who's starting the bring back Yogi thread :I'm waiti.



RP Never appointed PF

Now I'm proper confused :confused:.


What if we're relegated and somehow fail to win the Cup?

What happens if we go down but win the cup. Should he stay or should he go :dunno:.

silverhibee
29-04-2012, 11:46 PM
What if we're relegated and somehow fail to win the Cup?


Then i would expect a new manager in place for pre-season and STF to sack the board as that would mean they have got it wrong again, yes SL and FH will be the fall guys as it was made clear that they brought the new manager in, but it was RP that took all the credit when PF was signed as our new manager and being paraded with him at ER when we were once again told that Hibs have brought the right man in to take Hibs on to better things.

PFs record since he came in has been pish, he chops and changes the team every other week, does he know his strongest/best 11 yet, players that he has signed on contracts sitting on the bench while he plays loanee's, who are pish as well apart from McPake.

Thought he was a man not to be messed with, yet Griffiths is still acting like a silly we laddie on the pitch, does this lad never learn, or does he think he is now untouchable after the carry on at EM, got booked today again and is still arguing with the referee and then has words with Dorman at half time, good player on his day but he just seems to be getting booked every week.

And just please don't get me started on the midfield, what a faking joke they are.

silverhibee
29-04-2012, 11:59 PM
Completely agree. He needs time to bring in his own team. Summer is the time to really revamp the squad and bring in players he wants. Even if we go down he should be given the opportunity to sort us out and bring us back up stronger.


Sorry but if we go down he should be shown the door, his job when he got it was to keep us in the SPL, if he can't do that then its a new manager in the summer, and if we do go down i can't see players rushing to play for Hibs in the 1st division.

Would winning the Cup keep him in a job.?

joebakerforever
30-04-2012, 12:59 AM
;3201761']We could hire Jose flipping Mourinho and we'd be in the same state. Not Fenlon's fault we are where we are, people need to start looking deeper for our problems.

Do you think we'd be in the same state if we had hired Jim Jeffries ?

Silly me, all Jambos are useless and not Hibs class as has been proven by their results :devil:

JohnStephens91
30-04-2012, 01:07 AM
Anyone who says that Fenlon is doing a sh*** job needs to have a look at performances under Calderwood and then under Fenlon. The team at least has a solid look about it and he does seem to know what he is doing. The only problem I have with him is sometimes his use of substitutions has been poor. But under Fenlon for about 85% of games Hibs seem to be playing with a backbone and not collapsing like a fresh souffle at a Harley-Davidson convention. Get off his back, get off the teams back and support them. Come along and sing until your throat bleeds instead of calling for the head of Fenlon to roll do something positive with your voices!

MWHIBBIES
30-04-2012, 01:21 AM
Anyone who says that Fenlon is doing a sh*** job needs to have a look at performances under Calderwood and then under Fenlon. The team at least has a solid look about it and he does seem to know what he is doing. The only problem I have with him is sometimes his use of substitutions has been poor. But under Fenlon for about 85% of games Hibs seem to be playing with a backbone and not collapsing like a fresh souffle at a Harley-Davidson convention. Get off his back, get off the teams back and support them. Come along and sing until your throat bleeds instead of calling for the head of Fenlon to roll do something positive with your voices!:thumbsup: Good post

HoboHarry
30-04-2012, 01:32 AM
One of the comments that PF has made a number of times is that the players get nervous playing at Easter Road. If the level of support at the ground is accurately represented by the idiotic nature of the posts here then it is no wonder. I can't decide whether Hibs have an unusual number of idiots supporting them or if they are Jambos pretending to be Hibs fans. Start supporting the team instead of shouting them down for goodness sake....

silverhibee
30-04-2012, 01:43 AM
Anyone who says that Fenlon is doing a sh*** job needs to have a look at performances under Calderwood and then under Fenlon. The team at least has a solid look about it and he does seem to know what he is doing. The only problem I have with him is sometimes his use of substitutions has been poor. But under Fenlon for about 85% of games Hibs seem to be playing with a backbone and not collapsing like a fresh souffle at a Harley-Davidson convention. Get off his back, get off the teams back and support them. Come along and sing until your throat bleeds instead of calling for the head of Fenlon to roll do something positive with your voices!


Fenlons record since he came in has been pish, we are getting closer to the Pars rather than getting further away from them, is that the plan.

If wee were not in the Final of the cup then loads of folk would be screaming for him to be sacked.

Bit in bold, say what you want about backbone and got us playing better looking solid, what use is that when you can't pick up any points, its all about results and Fenlon isn't getting them in the SPL, and you know what comes next, yep the dreaded vote of confidence from RP that this is the man to take us forward, two months later and they are normally sacked from Hibs and the merry-go-round starts again for a new manager.

silverhibee
30-04-2012, 01:43 AM
:thumbsup: Good post


don't see it myself.

The Green Goblin
30-04-2012, 01:52 AM
When PF first arrived, the chat was that he needed (up to) 2 years to sort out the mess Hibs were in. Given the sheer scale of that mess, it's reasonable to say that this required a long term game plan. His league results have been awful, but (if we stay up) is it not only fair to judge him after he has had a full end of season transfer window to put his own team together? And as unlikely as it may seem, if we win the cup, wouldn't it be bizarre (but also the kind of thing only Hibs would do) to sack a Hibs manager who achieved something no other Hibs manager had managed in 110 years?

basehibby
30-04-2012, 01:57 AM
McPake at the back. :agree:

Pa Kujabi at left back. :agree:

Docherty at right back :agree:

Osbourne in midfield :agree:

Griffiths up front :agree:

Have to correct you in that Osbourne and Griffiths were brought in by Calderwood - although I would agree that the team looks better under Fenlon than the chaotic mess CC left behind. Got to admit that I'm worried though - the team still lacks creativity and there's a paucity of options to change things when they're not going in our favour. We look a lot more solid as a defensive unit but an inability to consistently hold onto the ball in the last quarter and really put teams under the screw is hurting us and has been the bigest factor in our continuing poor league form.
We seem to be lacking a slice of luck right now as well though as both of the last 2 games have ended in defeat despite edging it in terms of posession and chances. All we can do is get right behind the team and hope the elusive lady luck returns to our side to push us over the line in the league and give us a fighting chance on May 19th. Getting on the manager's back at this stage is utterly pointless - I can understand people having doubts about Fenlon as our league record under him remains poor, but the last thing he or the team needs right now is the additional pressure that criticism brings so I'd urge the doubters to keep their powder dry until the season is done.

JohnStephens91
30-04-2012, 02:16 AM
Fenlons record since he came in has been pish, we are getting closer to the Pars rather than getting further away from them, is that the plan.

If wee were not in the Final of the cup then loads of folk would be screaming for him to be sacked.

Bit in bold, say what you want about backbone and got us playing better looking solid, what use is that when you can't pick up any points, its all about results and Fenlon isn't getting them in the SPL, and you know what comes next, yep the dreaded vote of confidence from RP that this is the man to take us forward, two months later and they are normally sacked from Hibs and the merry-go-round starts again for a new manager.

The main problem with Hibs though is that we don't have a creative midfielder, one who will create maybe 4 chances and pitch in with a goal. Obviously Soares would have been expected to be the answer but his performances have been less than desirable, although he has shown flashes of quality.

Also I seem to see a lot of people on the verge of calling for Fenlon to get sacked, if you can't see this then you need to re-read the thread. And while you're at it have a look at the performances under Calderwood and then under Fenlon. The main problem is what I have already stated, a need for a creative midfielder, using the resources at his disposal Fenlon is doing a good job and I fully expect him to see us remain in the SPL.

Also if you are so sure that Fenlon will be gone by the time of the AGM then you should put money on it, but it just shows your complete lack of faith and support in the team and the entire club.

Littlest Hobo
30-04-2012, 03:22 AM
You completely missed the point. My point was that folk keep saying that Fenlon has improved us which doesn't stand up to scrutiny (which you've done again in your post). There was no criticism of the manager by me.

Thanks for the advice but I live in the real world. That's why I pull folk up for claiming, as fact, stuff that isn't based on evidence.

You live in a world of stats.
If your telling me that our team was better before Fenlon then your dreaming.
McPake, Kujabi, Osbourne, Docherty and Griffiths have improved the team.

I think Fenlon has improved us but unfortunately that hasn't showed in the results.
Even if we do happen to get relegated then I'd stick with Pat.

ALF TUPPER
30-04-2012, 05:18 AM
A wee Hibs.net holiday for me too.

Gatecrasher
30-04-2012, 05:49 AM
Could this **** at least not be left until the summer?

Matt92
30-04-2012, 06:20 AM
A change in manager will not suffice or be good for our club.
We have improved under Fenlon, against Killie and Dunfermline for example we should have won both games but we didn't get the rub of the green! **** happens.

If we change manager again we'd have yet another season of transition i.e. ***** which is something we cannot afford financially or in terms of squad motivation. Fenlon needs to be given until AT LEAST 2013 to prove himself, we can't sack the guy in under a year ffs hes had his hands tied, receiving a few Calderwood dummies, he's done good with the likes of McPake, Kujabi etc whereby if they had not arrived (which they would NOT have under LOLderwood), we would be long relegated.

I'm backing Fenlon, give him 2 more transfer windows to build a team, then we will judge him on his permanent signings!!

People on this board have to get a ****ing grip and back the team.

Weir7
30-04-2012, 06:25 AM
Stats are a funny thing, they don't take into account the fact that PF was left with a pile of ***** and has had to try and gel a bunch of players together in a short period of time.

The only stat I'm interested in is that we are above Dunfermline at the end of the season. Then and only then will I start to judge PF on his long term signings.

It's shakey ground criticising the manager at this stage of the season, when really we need to get behind the man.

The last thing we need is to be sacking our manager again, so I suggest you put your little stat book away for now and get real.

The rubbish players that CC got a better points return than PF has managed

Septimus
30-04-2012, 06:41 AM
I find it difficult to empathise with any manager who brings on Ivan in the hope that he will contribute anything to the game.

If I remember correctly we went through last season after the split without winning any games and I fear that is what we are going to do again. We are now grouped with the worst teams in the SPL and we look like being the worst of the worst.

As for winning the cup. Dream on.

Steve20
30-04-2012, 07:14 AM
You live in a world of stats.
If your telling me that our team was better before Fenlon then your dreaming.
McPake, Kujabi, Osbourne, Docherty and Griffiths have improved the team.

I think Fenlon has improved us but unfortunately that hasn't showed in the results.
Even if we do happen to get relegated then I'd stick with Pat.


If all those players have improved us that much, how come we can still hardly win a match?

He has to be shown the door if we go down. Football is about results and Fenlon hasn't delivered.

Cropley10
30-04-2012, 07:50 AM
Seriously, did someone pee in your cornflakes when you were a kid or something? Your unrelenting, negative, doomsday, end of the world is nigh attitude is the most remarkably consistent thing about your posts. And they are utterly pointless at this stage. Your diet of misery carefully treasured and rehashed at every opportunity will do precisely nothing to help between now and the end of the season. If things go bad then fine, let's have a full on inquest. But until then can you not at least say nothing if you can't say anything positive? Just give the team the faintest glimmer of a chance of a bit of positivity. The cup final is 90 minutes between two teams - doesn't matter how good or bad they have been all season (and the Yams haven't been particularly good). The league depends on the Dunfermline game.

We are on a ship. It might be the Titanic or it might be the QE2. Let's find out which first before we start holding the inquest eh?

Why don't you read my OP again? Nothing has improved, certainly not what matters; results. I was making the point that the way he's going he won't be here because the Board will empty him. The Cup is a distraction but he can't get away from his League record, every team in the league must like playing Hibs, home or away. As I said I see no improvement, just dull, lifeless football played mostly by players who don't seem to care.

hibs0666
30-04-2012, 07:52 AM
Why don't you read my OP again? Nothing has improved, certainly not what matters; results. I was making the point that the way he's going he won't be here because the Board will empty him. The Cup is a distraction but he can't get away from his League record, every team in the league must like playing Hibs, home or away. As I said I see no improvement, just dull, lifeless football played mostly by players who don't seem to care.

If Hibs empty yet another manager two minutes in the door then the cycle of failure would then be completed.

Captain Trips
30-04-2012, 08:22 AM
I think CC and Pat have pretty simikar records maybe PFs is worse. It is not good enough and I am not buying this it is not his players. We cannot really change anything now but in our best scenario of stayibg up and winning cup it is a pity that I would be happy to never see the majority of these players ever again.

Andy74
30-04-2012, 08:33 AM
I'd have hoped for results to be better, we all would, and i think we expected beter when the new players arrived.

However, we are clearly better at the back, we don't give away the daft goals anymore at anyhting like the rate we did. We are also created chances and often scoring goals, which we weren't doing under CC to any great extent.

You also can't ignore that we got through Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnoc, Ayr and Aberdeen in the cup - that would certainly not have happened pre Fenlon.

The cup run may be being written off right now as a distraction but it has probably at this stage saved the club from a financial meltdown. It may also yet deliver us the cup and European football for next year.

Fenlon had just a few weeks to cobble together a handful of players to add to a team where we had no defenders, no leadership, no creativity, no pace, no team spirit and a culture of losing and not caring.

He's gone some to addressing some of those things but one windon during Janury is not enough to make a real change.

We still have a real lack of confidence due to where we have been for the last two years, we have pressure on the players, especially at home, and we still lacl sufficient quality, especially in creative areas.

I think we've been a bit unfortunate the last couple of games, but results do count.

We'd be crazy though to start thinking about getting rid of this manger, mental. Aye, lets start the whole process again with some other guy.The guy obviously cares, he has a winning background and if we step back and get a grip we might well see a different team next year.

Anyway, glad I'm going on holiday soo so I don't have to read a few more weeks of this nonsense. IF we go down, he should be the guy to stay here and get us back where we belong. This wasn't of his doing.

Sudds_1
30-04-2012, 08:43 AM
I'd have hoped for results to be better, we all would, and i think we expected beter when the new players arrived.

However, we are clearly better at the back, we don't give away the daft goals anymore at anyhting like the rate we did. We are also created chances and often scoring goals, which we weren't doing under CC to any great extent.

You also can't ignore that we got through Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnoc, Ayr and Aberdeen in the cup - that would certainly not have happened pre Fenlon.

The cup run may be being written off right now as a distraction but it has probably at this stage saved the club from a financial meltdown. It may also yet deliver us the cup and European football for next year.

Fenlon had just a few weeks to cobble together a handful of players to add to a team where we had no defenders, no leadership, no creativity, no pace, no team spirit and a culture of losing and not caring.

He's gone some to addressing some of those things but one windon during Janury is not enough to make a real change.

We still have a real lack of confidence due to where we have been for the last two years, we have pressure on the players, especially at home, and we still lacl sufficient quality, especially in creative areas.

I think we've been a bit unfortunate the last couple of games, but results do count.

We'd be crazy though to start thinking about getting rid of this manger, mental. Aye, lets start the whole process again with some other guy.The guy obviously cares, he has a winning background and if we step back and get a grip we might well see a different team next year.

Anyway, glad I'm going on holiday soo so I don't have to read a few more weeks of this nonsense. IF we go down, he should be the guy to stay here and get us back where we belong. This wasn't of his doing.

What he said! CC tore the heart out of this club.........his legacy is one that may take a few seasons to put right. Fenlon has that task. He deserves to be given time to complete it. So far, IMHO so good given what he was left with.

Patience is a skill all Hibs supprters have learned over the past few decades..............we'll need a wee bit more in the coming season or two.

Sudds_1
30-04-2012, 08:46 AM
If all those players have improved us that much, how come we can still hardly win a match?

He has to be shown the door if we go down. Football is about results and Fenlon hasn't delivered.

I think he probably will.

And that would be a mistake and simply compund the failures already made by the Board.

Famous5forever
30-04-2012, 08:48 AM
Why don't you read my OP again? Nothing has improved, certainly not what matters; results. I was making the point that the way he's going he won't be here because the Board will empty him. The Cup is a distraction but he can't get away from his League record, every team in the league must like playing Hibs, home or away. As I said I see no improvement, just dull, lifeless football played mostly by players who don't seem to care.

It was a gamble by the board to try this LOI Experiment which i am sad to say has failed, we needed then an experienced Scottish manager and we still do.
Paddy might just scrape us through these last few games but it will be more by luck than skill if he does.It was a hard task to sort out the mess laid down by the previous incumbents but Paddy has not made it better, not any worse but not better.

Expecting Rain
30-04-2012, 08:49 AM
I'd have hoped for results to be better, we all would, and i think we expected beter when the new players arrived.

However, we are clearly better at the back, we don't give away the daft goals anymore at anyhting like the rate we did. We are also created chances and often scoring goals, which we weren't doing under CC to any great extent.

You also can't ignore that we got through Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnoc, Ayr and Aberdeen in the cup - that would certainly not have happened pre Fenlon.

The cup run may be being written off right now as a distraction but it has probably at this stage saved the club from a financial meltdown. It may also yet deliver us the cup and European football for next year.

Fenlon had just a few weeks to cobble together a handful of players to add to a team where we had no defenders, no leadership, no creativity, no pace, no team spirit and a culture of losing and not caring.

He's gone some to addressing some of those things but one windon during Janury is not enough to make a real change.

We still have a real lack of confidence due to where we have been for the last two years, we have pressure on the players, especially at home, and we still lacl sufficient quality, especially in creative areas.

I think we've been a bit unfortunate the last couple of games, but results do count.

We'd be crazy though to start thinking about getting rid of this manger, mental. Aye, lets start the whole process again with some other guy.The guy obviously cares, he has a winning background and if we step back and get a grip we might well see a different team next year.

Anyway, glad I'm going on holiday soo so I don't have to read a few more weeks of this nonsense. IF we go down, he should be the guy to stay here and get us back where we belong. This wasn't of his doing.

A good and fair summarisation of the present situation, i think there are decent players in the likes of McPake, Griffith, Soares, Osbourne,O`Connor,Claros,Brown,Doherty,Hanlon,Woth erspoon and Kujabi. These players need to respond to the next set of fixtures with a collective improvement in form and i don`t think it is beyond them. Ironically it is probably better that every game matters towards the cup final, every game should matter, all the time! We have been abysmal at times this season but in the last two games we should have picked up the maximum being the better side in both games. We have limited the opposition to few chances in these games ( include Aberdeen) and yesterday we did create good chances to win, the ones that fell to Doyle should have been converted, the first was probably more difficult than realised at the time, the second a good save from the keeper, there has been an improvement, we need to move on and get the rewards we deserve in the rest of the fixtures.

JimBHibees
30-04-2012, 09:18 AM
Sorry but if we go down he should be shown the door, his job when he got it was to keep us in the SPL, if he can't do that then its a new manager in the summer, and if we do go down i can't see players rushing to play for Hibs in the 1st division.

Would winning the Cup keep him in a job.?

Sometimes you need to look at the longer term though we were in freefall when he came in. He has IMO improved us to some degree, we are better defensively and are now actually controlling games without creating enough. Yesterday we had 60% possession, we were the better team last week also without getting the goaln our play deserved. We arent creative enough that is for sure Ozzy is an incredibly frustrating player for example, he has great ability but mucks up a simple pass.

We are in big trouble that is for sure however even if we go down then we should keep Fenlon as he is to my mind improving us and would make us better when he has more time to shape the team and bring more in.

JimBHibees
30-04-2012, 09:20 AM
I'd have hoped for results to be better, we all would, and i think we expected beter when the new players arrived.

However, we are clearly better at the back, we don't give away the daft goals anymore at anyhting like the rate we did. We are also created chances and often scoring goals, which we weren't doing under CC to any great extent.

You also can't ignore that we got through Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnoc, Ayr and Aberdeen in the cup - that would certainly not have happened pre Fenlon.

The cup run may be being written off right now as a distraction but it has probably at this stage saved the club from a financial meltdown. It may also yet deliver us the cup and European football for next year.

Fenlon had just a few weeks to cobble together a handful of players to add to a team where we had no defenders, no leadership, no creativity, no pace, no team spirit and a culture of losing and not caring.

He's gone some to addressing some of those things but one windon during Janury is not enough to make a real change.

We still have a real lack of confidence due to where we have been for the last two years, we have pressure on the players, especially at home, and we still lacl sufficient quality, especially in creative areas.

I think we've been a bit unfortunate the last couple of games, but results do count.

We'd be crazy though to start thinking about getting rid of this manger, mental. Aye, lets start the whole process again with some other guy.The guy obviously cares, he has a winning background and if we step back and get a grip we might well see a different team next year.

Anyway, glad I'm going on holiday soo so I don't have to read a few more weeks of this nonsense. IF we go down, he should be the guy to stay here and get us back where we belong. This wasn't of his doing.

Absolutely spot on.

JimBHibees
30-04-2012, 09:21 AM
It was a gamble by the board to try this LOI Experiment which i am sad to say has failed, we needed then an experienced Scottish manager and we still do.
Paddy might just scrape us through these last few games but it will be more by luck than skill if he does.It was a hard task to sort out the mess laid down by the previous incumbents but Paddy has not made it better, not any worse but not better.

Dear oh dear, what a crock that is.

JimBHibees
30-04-2012, 09:25 AM
I thought we played through midfield alot except the last 10 mins. Just curious as to why Fenlon thought a midfield of stevenson, ozzy, soares, francomb is good enough. Ozzy is half decent when he can be assed but the rest are mince.

Yes we did we wouldnt have had 60% possession if all we did was knock it long especially against a team that keep posession well. Our problem was midfield to front, the two forwards didnt really hold the ball well and our midfelders didnt create enough.

Spike Mandela
30-04-2012, 09:29 AM
You live in a world of stats.
If your telling me that our team was better before Fenlon then your dreaming.
McPake, Kujabi, Osbourne, Docherty and Griffiths have improved the team.

I think Fenlon has improved us but unfortunately that hasn't showed in the results.
Even if we do happen to get relegated then I'd stick with Pat.

Apart from the fact Osbourne and Griffiths were CC signings you are right in that the team wasn't better under CC however it wasn't any worse either. The transition to PF has been seamless.

However PF needs to be given a fair crack of the whip and hopefully he gets another season in the SPL to revamp and get rid of our dross.

Jones28
30-04-2012, 09:34 AM
Having your main striker taking corners does not help the lack of goals, get him in the box ,coaching staff are you watching the games.

Don't remember Derek Riordan being in the box for corners, he was the one taking them. He was a pretty important striker was he not?

Saorsa
30-04-2012, 09:41 AM
I'd have hoped for results to be better, we all would, and i think we expected beter when the new players arrived.

However, we are clearly better at the back, we don't give away the daft goals anymore at anyhting like the rate we did. We are also created chances and often scoring goals, which we weren't doing under CC to any great extent.

You also can't ignore that we got through Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnoc, Ayr and Aberdeen in the cup - that would certainly not have happened pre Fenlon.

The cup run may be being written off right now as a distraction but it has probably at this stage saved the club from a financial meltdown. It may also yet deliver us the cup and European football for next year.

Fenlon had just a few weeks to cobble together a handful of players to add to a team where we had no defenders, no leadership, no creativity, no pace, no team spirit and a culture of losing and not caring.

He's gone some to addressing some of those things but one windon during Janury is not enough to make a real change.

We still have a real lack of confidence due to where we have been for the last two years, we have pressure on the players, especially at home, and we still lacl sufficient quality, especially in creative areas.

I think we've been a bit unfortunate the last couple of games, but results do count.

We'd be crazy though to start thinking about getting rid of this manger, mental. Aye, lets start the whole process again with some other guy.The guy obviously cares, he has a winning background and if we step back and get a grip we might well see a different team next year.

Anyway, glad I'm going on holiday soo so I don't have to read a few more weeks of this nonsense. IF we go down, he should be the guy to stay here and get us back where we belong. This wasn't of his doing.well it had tae happen eventually :greengrin but :top marks

ScottB
30-04-2012, 10:04 AM
Mystified as to why anyone would think changing managers would improve things. Remind me of how that's worked out the last few times?

Fenlon must be given time. Even if we go down I'd lean towards keeping him, simply because we cannot keep punting managers out the door every 6 months.

The manager is, for me, not to blame right now.

Just Alf
30-04-2012, 10:16 AM
Mystified as to why anyone would think changing managers would improve things. Remind me of how that's worked out the last few times?

Fenlon must be given time. Even if we go down I'd lean towards keeping him, simply because we cannot keep punting managers out the door every 6 months.

The manager is, for me, not to blame right now.

For me, bang on.....

once he's had summer to "re-design" the team to what he actually want's and if we are still c**p THEN I'll start rethinking my postion on PF

:flag:

hopefulhibby
30-04-2012, 11:54 AM
Anyone who says that Fenlon is doing a sh*** job needs to have a look at performances under Calderwood and then under Fenlon. The team at least has a solid look about it and he does seem to know what he is doing. The only problem I have with him is sometimes his use of substitutions has been poor. But under Fenlon for about 85% of games Hibs seem to be playing with a backbone and not collapsing like a fresh souffle at a Harley-Davidson convention. Get off his back, get off the teams back and support them. Come along and sing until your throat bleeds instead of calling for the head of Fenlon to roll do something positive with your voices!
Utter rubbish, are you PF agent or dad?

JohnStephens91
30-04-2012, 12:54 PM
Utter rubbish, are you PF agent or dad?

Yeah a 20 year old university student is the father of Pat Fenlon, how did you guess? :rolleyes: All I am is someone who has seen improvements in the squad since Fenlon was placed in charge. Sure we may not be getting the results all the time, but under his management I can see a huge difference between now and when CC was the manager.

Onion
30-04-2012, 01:11 PM
Could this **** at least not be left until the summer?

:agree: this an incredible thread when there is still so much to play for. The man has the chance to become an all-time Hibs Legend in 3 weeks time, so those seriously questioning his management skills at this stage could look very silly post 19 May :rolleyes:

ManBearPig
30-04-2012, 04:42 PM
Admin this thread should be closed and deleted as is counter productive for what the hibs are aiming to achieve and it's also a clear insult to peoples intelligence!

MSK
30-04-2012, 04:58 PM
What he said! CC tore the heart out of this club.........his legacy is one that may take a few seasons to put right. Fenlon has that task. He deserves to be given time to complete it. So far, IMHO so good given what he was left with.

Patience is a skill all Hibs supprters have learned over the past few decades..............we'll need a wee bit more in the coming season or two.:top marks

MSK
30-04-2012, 05:03 PM
Admin this thread should be closed and deleted as is counter productive for what the hibs are aiming to achieve and it's also a clear insult to peoples intelligence!No it shouldnt ..divided opinion, I dont agree with the op ..some do, some dont ..debate is healthy....:aok:

Keith_M
30-04-2012, 05:07 PM
Let's change the manager, again! Why not cos look how successful it's been doing this once a year for the last few years.


Fenlon was brought in to do a long term job. Even if we're relegated, I think we should give him at least another two full seasons. I realise that may not be a popular view but it's about time we had some kind of long term vision for the club.

HibsMax
30-04-2012, 05:08 PM
No it shouldnt ..divided opinion, I dont agree with the op ..some do, some dont ..debate is healthy....:aok:

I don't think it's a question of whether there is a real argument here or not, I think it's the timing.

You might want to discuss your child's most recent report card at some point, but during their birthday party? Probably not. Timing.

Now nobody here is celebrating a birthday but we are approaching the end to an important season and while I am not sticking my head in the sand, why not debate what should happen AFTER the season has actually ended, when people know what they're actually talking about e.g., "Hibs, SPL members and current Scottish Cup champions" or "Hibs, SPL wannabees and Scottish Cup runners-up".

Northernhibee
30-04-2012, 05:30 PM
Some people never learn.

We need continuity above all else. Yogi left us broken, CC destroyed the little we had left.

Rome wasn't built in a day, PF has shown in his managerial career that he is a winner. You have to walk before you can run, if something I think that's where CC went wrong, hence Pallson started out fantastically and fell away, the culture at the club was all wrong.

PF is changing that, but it's not a quick process. We need a manager who understands winning and what you need to win - PF is undoubtedly suitable and in that vein.

We simply cannot keep ditching manager after manager after manager, we need to let PF have 2-3 seasons to put a winning culture in place at our club. That is how long doing that takes, that is doing things correctly and that is the only sustainable way forward for us.

I strongly predict we'll see Falkirk get to the Europa League qualifying rounds within five years. Why? A winning culture is being put in place there.

Captain Trips
30-04-2012, 05:38 PM
Let's change the manager, again! Why not cos look how successful it's been doing this once a year for the last few years.


Fenlon was brought in to do a long term job. Even if we're relegated, I think we should give him at least another two full seasons. I realise that may not be a popular view but it's about time we had some kind of long term vision for the club.

CC was also brought in to do a long term job as well but it appeared he was looking like not up to it, now PF is here to do a job in long term but you have to look at things every so often and at this juncture I do not see why we will be so much better in 2yrs.

However the time for these discussions IMO is after 19th May, PF might turn out to be the best or worst manager we have had but he is going to be here for the next few games so I am behind him for that.

I will be right back to my usual moans after cup final. :greengrin

silverhibee
30-04-2012, 06:26 PM
Don't remember Derek Riordan being in the box for corners, he was the one taking them. He was a pretty important striker was he not?


Glad you noticed that, :greengrin, and he put in decent corners too, but i think players like Deek and Sparky should not be taking corners and sitting around the edge of the box for any balls that get cleared to that area to get a shot away.

silverhibee
30-04-2012, 06:29 PM
CC was also brought in to do a long term job as well but it appeared he was looking like not up to it, now PF is here to do a job in long term but you have to look at things every so often and at this juncture I do not see why we will be so much better in 2yrs.

However the time for these discussions IMO is after 19th May, PF might turn out to be the best or worst manager we have had but he is going to be here for the next few games so I am behind him for that.

I will be right back to my usual moans after cup final. :greengrin


You got a ticket yet Berg.

Captain Trips
30-04-2012, 09:53 PM
You got a ticket yet Berg.

Not as yet mate.

Dinkydoo
30-04-2012, 09:56 PM
I'd have hoped for results to be better, we all would, and i think we expected beter when the new players arrived.

However, we are clearly better at the back, we don't give away the daft goals anymore at anyhting like the rate we did. We are also created chances and often scoring goals, which we weren't doing under CC to any great extent.

You also can't ignore that we got through Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnoc, Ayr and Aberdeen in the cup - that would certainly not have happened pre Fenlon.

The cup run may be being written off right now as a distraction but it has probably at this stage saved the club from a financial meltdown. It may also yet deliver us the cup and European football for next year.

Fenlon had just a few weeks to cobble together a handful of players to add to a team where we had no defenders, no leadership, no creativity, no pace, no team spirit and a culture of losing and not caring.

He's gone some to addressing some of those things but one windon during Janury is not enough to make a real change.

We still have a real lack of confidence due to where we have been for the last two years, we have pressure on the players, especially at home, and we still lacl sufficient quality, especially in creative areas.

I think we've been a bit unfortunate the last couple of games, but results do count.

We'd be crazy though to start thinking about getting rid of this manger, mental. Aye, lets start the whole process again with some other guy.The guy obviously cares, he has a winning background and if we step back and get a grip we might well see a different team next year.

Anyway, glad I'm going on holiday soo so I don't have to read a few more weeks of this nonsense. IF we go down, he should be the guy to stay here and get us back where we belong. This wasn't of his doing.

Excellent post Andy, I wholeheartedly agree. :aok:

hibeequinn
01-05-2012, 01:52 PM
with the little money fenlon got to buy players especially in a january transfer window he cant be judged wait till he gets a clean crack at the new season his own players and a team that wants to play for the badge not the money but need to stop this crap about fenlon needs sacked :pfgwa

The Sea-gull
01-05-2012, 01:56 PM
Read the whole thread and there are strong arguments for and against PF.

I didn't want him in the first place but said I'd give him time and that is what he still deserves. If he keeps us up (surely his minimum remit on appointment when we were poor but hardly adrift at the bottom with a transfer window to come) and improves us next season then we move on with him into 2013/14 and see how it goes from there.

If we go down this season then there is a decision to be made as then he has failed to meet his minimum target for the season and those of us (who were massively in the minority) who wanted a proven SPL manager to come in given the state we were in at the time, may have reason to believe their opinion had foundation. Before anyone starts, I will take absolutely no satisfaction if Hibs going down and fully hope to be able to say in a year or two's time that I was wrong to doubt the choice of PF.

I do hope that we are not looking at a Dunfermline and Steven Kenny situation with PF where a club decides to look at the Irish leagues for a boss and it fails spectacularly in that he had plenty time to keep them up and failed then followed it up with a disastarous start in the first division.

We still have a great chance of staying up though, even if we lose to Aberdeen which I think we will do as Hibs won't do it the easy way. I believe this squad has just about enough about them to beat Dunfermline and ICT in the last two games.

Famous5forever
01-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Read the whole thread and there are strong arguments for and against PF.

I didn't want him in the first place but said I'd give him time and that is what he still deserves. If he keeps us up (surely his minimum remit on appointment when we were poor but hardly adrift at the bottom with a transfer window to come) and improves us next season then we move on with him into 2013/14 and see how it goes from there.

If we go down this season then there is a decision to be made as then he has failed to meet his minimum target for the season and those of us (who were massively in the minority) who wanted a proven SPL manager to come in given the state we were in at the time, may have reason to believe their opinion had foundation. Before anyone starts, I will take absolutely no satisfaction if Hibs going down and fully hope to be able to say in a year or two's time that I was wrong to doubt the choice of PF.

I do hope that we are not looking at a Dunfermline and Steven Kenny situation with PF where a club decides to look at the Irish leagues for a boss and it fails spectacularly in that he had plenty time to keep them up and failed then followed it up with a disastarous start in the first division.

We still have a great chance of staying up though, even if we lose to Aberdeen which I think we will do as Hibs won't do it the easy way. I believe this squad has just about enough about them to beat Dunfermline and ICT in the last two games.


Paddy needs time, some things have not worked but he got us to the cup final, and there has been a little improvement if we had stuck with CC We would have been down by now, i agree with the above in bold as they will be up for revenge after the semi final but i feel we have enough to draw at home v dunfy and win at ICT Which will keep us up, then its on to the Cup final which we can win.

tamig
01-05-2012, 06:29 PM
CC was also brought in to do a long term job as well but it appeared he was looking like not up to it, now PF is here to do a job in long term but you have to look at things every so often and at this juncture I do not see why we will be so much better in 2yrs.

However the time for these discussions IMO is after 19th May, PF might turn out to be the best or worst manager we have had but he is going to be here for the next few games so I am behind him for that.

I will be right back to my usual moans after cup final. :greengrin

Bit it bold - and he he looked as though he didn't want the gig - particularly during the fiasco of last summer. We must stick with the manager this time around. This annual chopping and changing is killing us. Let PF bring in his own longer term signings in the summer and see where it takes us.

iain nolan
01-05-2012, 07:04 PM
I have been 100% behind pat fenlon so far he has inproved the team but unfortanly he not made us a WINNING team . We need him to get us points when he was first appointed and this never happend .

JJ goes to dunfermline and he gets them points within weeks off taken over without a transfer window.
and now hibs could go down .

am not saying we should sack FENLON if it goes wrong for the club he should be given the job off getting
us back up . we just cant keep changing managers . I still think we will stay up .

if hibernian board had gone for JJ i would have been 100% behind him as he a football man and i think he knows the scottish game a lot better than FENLON and we would be safe by now .

Am sorry to say this but am only 60% behind PAT TODAY

hopefulhibby
01-05-2012, 07:21 PM
Read the whole thread and there are strong arguments for and against PF.

I didn't want him in the first place but said I'd give him time and that is what he still deserves. If he keeps us up (surely his minimum remit on appointment when we were poor but hardly adrift at the bottom with a transfer window to come) and improves us next season then we move on with him into 2013/14 and see how it goes from there.

If we go down this season then there is a decision to be made as then he has failed to meet his minimum target for the season and those of us (who were massively in the minority) who wanted a proven SPL manager to come in given the state we were in at the time, may have reason to believe their opinion had foundation. Before anyone starts, I will take absolutely no satisfaction if Hibs going down and fully hope to be able to say in a year or two's time that I was wrong to doubt the choice of PF.

I do hope that we are not looking at a Dunfermline and Steven Kenny situation with PF where a club decides to look at the Irish leagues for a boss and it fails spectacularly in that he had plenty time to keep them up and failed then followed it up with a disastarous start in the first division.

We still have a great chance of staying up though, even if we lose to Aberdeen which I think we will do as Hibs won't do it the easy way. I believe this squad has just about enough about them to beat Dunfermline and ICT in the last two games.If JJ had got the Hibs job would you have been happy and supportive of his appointment?

Northernhibee
01-05-2012, 08:13 PM
I have been 100% behind pat fenlon so far he has inproved the team but unfortanly he not made us a WINNING team . We need him to get us points when he was first appointed and this never happend .

JJ goes to dunfermline and he gets them points within weeks off taken over without a transfer window.
and now hibs could go down .

am not saying we should sack FENLON if it goes wrong for the club he should be given the job off getting
us back up . we just cant keep changing managers . I still think we will stay up .

if hibernian board had gone for JJ i would have been 100% behind him as he a football man and i think he knows the scottish game a lot better than FENLON and we would be safe by now .

Am sorry to say this but am only 60% behind PAT TODAY

You'll be wanting to get someone to look at your caps lock key, it's jamming on at really random times there.

IWasThere2016
01-05-2012, 08:25 PM
You also can't ignore that we got through Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnoc, Ayr and Aberdeen in the cup - that would certainly not have happened pre Fenlon.


Pure conjecture .. facts are ignored again in favour of pure speculative pish :wink: :greengrin

ManBearPig
01-05-2012, 08:44 PM
No it shouldnt ..divided opinion, I dont agree with the op ..some do, some dont ..debate is healthy....:aok:

Debate is only healthy when it's constructive and not just another sack the manager thread!! Just been hard to swallow and nows not the time for this debate. In my humble opinion. Getting a case of deju poo : (heard the same s)$t before

FranckSuzy
01-05-2012, 09:36 PM
You'll be wanting to get someone to look at your caps lock key, it's jamming on at really random times there.

:faf:

Captain Trips
01-05-2012, 09:40 PM
Bit it bold - and he he looked as though he didn't want the gig - particularly during the fiasco of last summer. We must stick with the manager this time around. This annual chopping and changing is killing us. Let PF bring in his own longer term signings in the summer and see where it takes us.

I agree PF is 100% more interested that however does not mean he will do any better. Bottom line is PFs record is terrible and for me is as much a concern as was CC at this juncture.

Part/Time Supporter
01-05-2012, 09:49 PM
Pure conjecture .. facts are ignored again if favour pure speculative pish :wink: :greengrin

Calderwood's team were beaten in the SC by a Second Division team last year (Ayr). The equivalent this year would have been losing to Cowdenbeath. So it's not that big a leap of the imagination.

One Day Soon
01-05-2012, 11:21 PM
Calderwood's team were beaten in the SC by a Second Division team last year (Ayr). The equivalent this year would have been losing to Cowdenbeath. So it's not that big a leap of the imagination.


Indeed PTS. Imagination and some frickin' spine would be a good idea for the remaining weeks of the season.

Plenty of time to lick wounds once the season is over, IF we have wounds to lick at that stage.

marinello59
01-05-2012, 11:40 PM
I have been 100% behind pat fenlon so far he has inproved the team but unfortanly he not made us a WINNING team . We need him to get us points when he was first appointed and this never happend .

JJ goes to dunfermline and he gets them points within weeks off taken over without a transfer window.
and now hibs could go down .

am not saying we should sack FENLON if it goes wrong for the club he should be given the job off getting
us back up . we just cant keep changing managers . I still think we will stay up .

if hibernian board had gone for JJ i would have been 100% behind him as he a football man and i think he knows the scottish game a lot better than FENLON and we would be safe by now .

Am sorry to say this but am only 60% behind PAT TODAY

How does this 60% thing work then. And is that a precise figure? How do you work it out? If JJ is a football man what is Pat Fenlon?

The Sea-gull
02-05-2012, 01:34 PM
If JJ had got the Hibs job would you have been happy and supportive of his appointment?

Would be supportive towards anyone who got the Hibs job doesn't mean I'd agree with the appointment.

I have supported PF all the way and will continue to support him while he is Hibs manager despite him not being my personal choice. I will be questioning whether we stick with him if we go down or if we stay up and don't improve. He has been given a lot of support and defence in spite of the results, this being down largely to an acknowledgement that we have to patient as much of the mess made is not down to him and he has overseen slight "non-results" based improvements. It is a results game though and if we survive he has to start turning these improvements into results.

JimBHibees
02-05-2012, 02:00 PM
Would be supportive towards anyone who got the Hibs job doesn't mean I'd agree with the appointment.

I have supported PF all the way and will continue to support him while he is Hibs manager despite him not being my personal choice. I will be questioning whether we stick with him if we go down or if we stay up and don't improve. He has been given a lot of support and defence in spite of the results, this being down largely to an acknowledgement that we have to patient as much of the mess made is not down to him and he has overseen slight "non-results" based improvements. It is a results game though and if we survive he has to start turning these improvements into results.

Like getting us to a cup final and probably commercially ensuring the club are ok for the next 3 to 4 years (relegation withstanding).

Famous5forever
02-05-2012, 02:24 PM
I agree PF is 100% more interested that however does not mean he will do any better. Bottom line is PFs record is terrible and for me is as much a concern as was CC at this juncture.


" Paddy needs time " lets see what new players he brings in in the Summer and a good pre season under his belt would also help.

CabbageBoy
02-05-2012, 05:14 PM
" Paddy needs time " lets see what new players he brings in in the Summer and a good pre season under his belt would also help.

League; P21 W3 D5 L13.

Dont score enough, dont entertain, dont even get points to stay up. At least the Bunnet did that. If it wasnt for the final, he'd be under massive pressure. That said, a win in one the three remaining games will keep us up. The problem is that we win 1 in 7 under him. More chance of a point tonight and a win in Inverness than a win at home, and that's not down to the fans. The support against Killie was pretty positive (younger daughters first game, only my 4th this season) but it didnt matter. Lack of midfield and cutting edge up front is the problem.

Northernhibee
02-05-2012, 10:10 PM
:giruy: :giruy: :giruy::giruy: :giruy: :giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy:

Got it spot on tonight - get a two goal cushion then limit their chances, don't do anything stupid, perfect.

Can't wait to see what PF does over the pre-season.

One Day Soon
02-05-2012, 10:13 PM
So, a fair few red faces on this thread now, no?

silverhibee
02-05-2012, 10:17 PM
:giruy: :giruy: :giruy::giruy: :giruy: :giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy:

Got it spot on tonight - get a two goal cushion then limit their chances, don't do anything stupid, perfect.

Can't wait to see what PF does over the pre-season.



Well the way Rod is going about things, correctly may i add, it looks like Pat may have a few quid to spend in the summer on some decent players and hopefully try to hold on to a few of the loanees.

Minder
02-05-2012, 10:23 PM
Well the way Rod is going about things, correctly may i add, it looks like Pat may have a few quid to spend in the summer on some decent players and hopefully try to hold on to a few of the loanees.

Silver, how is number 01 in Perth? Any signs of movement for next season? Fitness holding up?

Sammy7nil
02-05-2012, 10:31 PM
Pats next task is get the team out on Monday fired up and blast the Pars away in the opening 20 mins.

Get the fans bouncing and believing we Will win the cup.

If not 0 - 0 will do :greengrin

JimBHibees
03-05-2012, 10:11 AM
Well done Pat. Lets get it put to bed on Monday night and then on to the Final. Massive result last night. :flag:

IWasThere2016
03-05-2012, 12:30 PM
Calderwood's team were beaten in the SC by a Second Division team last year (Ayr). The equivalent this year would have been losing to Cowdenbeath. So it's not that big a leap of the imagination.

So because we've lost once to Hearts this season there's no point in turning up at Hampden. I get ya :rolleyes:

Spike Mandela
03-05-2012, 04:03 PM
So because we've lost once to Hearts this season there's no point in turning up at Hampden. I get ya :rolleyes:

Once?:confused: played 3 lost 3 isn't it?:confused:

Dashing Bob S
03-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Some people need to learn about the game of football and man up.

CC collapsed as he tried to merely paper over the cracks created by Yogi (club culture mostly) and it was nothing more than a quick fix.

We've rid ourselves of the awful influences within the team (getting rid of Palsson and Agogo was a great move). We'll stay up this year as PF has shown in LOI that when the chips are down, he can get results and after that we'll see more of a full rebuild of Hibs.

Blaming things on having Sparky taking corners is ridiculous, we've been picking up points against bottom 6 sides since his temporary team came in, that point against Motherwell showed courage. We've conceded less since our LM and RM have sat deeper and reduced the amount of crosses coming at our defence, our CBs have been solid since Hanlon has been mopping up for anything left by McPake.

This summer we need a creative midfielder (Swanson could be good if he keeps himself fit, Hayes would be good too) but when PF took over, he had the square root of **** all to work with and you can't change that overnight.

When he took over, I think we all agreed that it was going to take at least a couple of seasons to turn us around. To start calling for PFs head shows panic, a lack of heart and absolute cowardice.

In PF we trust.

If so, it was the slowest and most broken quick fix in recorded history.

Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post.

Dashing Bob S
03-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Pats next task is get the team out on Monday fired up and blast the Pars away in the opening 20 mins.

Get the fans bouncing and believing we Will win the cup.

If not 0 - 0 will do :greengrin

No, I think we need to make a statement. 1-0. No, 4-0.

IWasThere2016
04-05-2012, 08:18 AM
Once?:confused: played 3 lost 3 isn't it?:confused:

Aye - but you've only to have lost once .. ever .. and you can live in the land of make believe with #74, PTS etc :wink:

Cropley10
19-05-2012, 04:06 PM
Thanks Pat for my worst ever day as a Hibs supporter. Utterly humiliating. Must have been some half-time team talk.

Out of his depth.

muzzhfc
19-05-2012, 04:12 PM
FFS we went in 2-1 at half time, if we came out the blocks in the second half then who knows what would of happened. what actually happened was a stupid silly little boy got himself sent off and put us on the back foot. they then went on to score again within seconds. yes pat made a mistake with his line up. which he fixed just before half time. clear out in the summer then lets see where we are. all this chopping and changing is doing us **** ALL

Hermit Crab
19-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Thanks Pat for my worst ever day as a Hibs supporter. Utterly humiliating. Must have been some half-time team talk.

Out of his depth.

Behave yourself.

cheltenhamhibee
19-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Behave yourself.


just out of curiousity, have you had a worse day as a Hibs supporter ?

carnoustiehibee
19-05-2012, 04:24 PM
Behave yourself.

He's spot on, fenlon has to go after this.

Captain Trips
19-05-2012, 04:24 PM
He's spot on, fenlon has to go after this.

:agree:

muzzhfc
19-05-2012, 04:25 PM
just out of curiousity, have you had a worse day as a Hibs supporter ?

I have - relegation, ayr last season, Coco's appointment.

Pretty Boy
19-05-2012, 04:28 PM
He's spot on, fenlon has to go after this.

Naive beyond belief in his tactics today.

4 central midfielders in a 4 man midfield was madness.

Not for the first time he's been found wanting. He has a hell of a lot to prove, make no mistake.

MSK
19-05-2012, 04:34 PM
Naive beyond belief in his tactics today.

4 central midfielders in a 4 man midfield was madness.

Not for the first time he's been found wanting. He has a hell of a lot to prove, make no mistake.So what would you have done ..?

Hermit Crab
19-05-2012, 04:35 PM
just out of curiousity, have you had a worse day as a Hibs supporter ?

Yes. Relegation losing to ayr x2 and the Livingston final. Have you like??

Cropley10
19-05-2012, 04:38 PM
Yes. Relegation losing to ayr x2 and the Livingston final. Have you like??

Behave yourself. Ayr and Livi! A national Final, TV around the world and we're destroyed in a competition we've not won in 110 years.

There is no improvement.

Del Boy
19-05-2012, 04:39 PM
Feel worse today than when we got relegated, we actually have a worse team now and certainly a worse manager.

cheltenhamhibee
19-05-2012, 04:39 PM
I have - relegation, ayr last season, Coco's appointment.

I remember relegation, Ayr last season, livi semi, hertz semi, arabs semi, ad infinitum !!!! but nothing has been anywhere near to the hurt that losing a cup final that you haven't won for 110 years 5-1 to that **** brings

Pretty Boy
19-05-2012, 04:39 PM
So what would you have done ..?

I've said for weeks I believed a 5 man midfield was needed today.

Hearts continually boss derbies by swamping the midfield and allowing Black to drop deep and dictate the play.

From what i watched today Fenlon employed the same tactics that he's gone with, and failed with, twice already.

GoldenMeerkat
19-05-2012, 04:42 PM
Pat Fenoln's tactics have been truly woeful at time this season and today is just another prime example of that.
I still cannot believe he played that formation in midfield.

Hermit Crab
19-05-2012, 04:44 PM
Behave yourself. Ayr and Livi! A national Final, TV around the world and we're destroyed in a competition we've not won in 110 years.

There is no improvement.

That's how we've played all season so why people expected us to win is beyond me. If your no happy don't back then, because at least 10,000 of that support the day won't be back until the next cup final.

sambajustice
19-05-2012, 04:46 PM
****** hibs and everything to do with them and easter road. Losers.

Makaveli
19-05-2012, 04:55 PM
Fenlon surrendered. That's not okay.

chrisski33
19-05-2012, 04:58 PM
What did they do when they went to dublin?

Captain Trips
19-05-2012, 05:00 PM
That's how we've played all season so why people expected us to win is beyond me. If your no happy don't back then, because at least 10,000 of that support the day won't be back until the next cup final.

Well you learn from it and change, he didnt the players didnt and that is unforgivable.

ScottB
19-05-2012, 05:02 PM
I see no improvement, the same issues that have blighted us for years; hardly anybody puts in a shift, constantly giving the ball away, taking too long to make decisions etc etc etc.

Id say bin him, but it seems no matter who is in charge or who is on the pitch these problems remain.

Hibby Bairn
19-05-2012, 05:02 PM
You boys don't half chunter some crap.

muzzhfc
19-05-2012, 05:03 PM
Fenlon surrendered. That's not okay.

if he surrendered why was he sent to the stand? if he surrendered, he would of sat in the dugout and looked dejected (like calderwood) but no, he got sent to the stand because he had a passion and was shouting instructions in his team. sorry but, i trust fenlon.

cabbageandribs1875
19-05-2012, 05:05 PM
What did they do when they went to dublin?


they certainly didn't learn how to make good use of throw-in's, having said that, i honestly can't think of another team that are put under so much pressure....with there own f****n throw-in's, and we've been like that for several seasons now, we really must be clueless on the training field

Makaveli
19-05-2012, 05:07 PM
if he surrendered why was he sent to the stand? if he surrendered, he would of sat in the dugout and looked dejected (like calderwood) but no, he got sent to the stand because he had a passion and was shouting instructions in his team. sorry but, i trust fenlon.

He surrendered when he told his players to stand off at 4-1 and sit down at 5-1. We quite literally invited them to attack; a better side would have put 8 past us.

Any manager can mouth off to an official. Sadly it seems that this particular manager is woefully put of his depth at Hibernian.

Wotherspiniesta
19-05-2012, 05:23 PM
Aye, brilliant guys. Let's blame this manager. :aok:

We've clearly no had enough ****ing good managers over the past few years. A year is not long enough to put together a succesful team. Certainly not at this club.

Fenlon speaks the truth. If any of you cared to read what he said after the game you'd know he can see things aren't as they should be. He was brought in to keep the club up and he's done that. Who'd have thought he would have brung us to a Scottish Cup Final? Not ****ing one of you.

If you think he got the tactis or the players wrong then you need to have a look a little closer to home. I gaurantee almost 90-95% of Hibs fans would have went with that starting line up today. So you should all get sacked n' aw. What can he do if the players **** themselves on the occasion? He done what he could, bringing off Claros before half time was a brave thing to do, but it was the right thing to do. The guy was completely lost out there.

Sacking manager after manager has got us absolutely nowhere. Infact it's doing a lot more damage than is is good. Utterly embarassing that some of you are wanting Fenlon sacked. Naive beyond comprehension.

Gus Fring
19-05-2012, 05:33 PM
Pat Fenlon was hired to keep us from playing in the First Division next season, a prospect that was looking more and more realistic with every moment Calderwood was in charge!

He got to us to Hampden twice into the bargain. If we'd won today he would be hailed as a hero but because we got beat he should be punted? This is why I don't go near Glue!

Dinkydoo
19-05-2012, 05:37 PM
Thanks Pat for my worst ever day as a Hibs supporter. Utterly humiliating. Must have been some half-time team talk.

Out of his depth.

I bet you couldn't ****ing wait to post that. :rolleyes:

erskine-hibby
19-05-2012, 06:03 PM
I bet you couldn't ****ing wait to post that. :rolleyes:

Say what you like but his tactics are poor. He let's the oposition have far to much time on the ball. Our defence and midfield had only about 5 yards between them or less for most of the game and this has been the way he set his teams up all the time he has been here.
I hope he has other ideas for next season because if not I can see us in the same position as now if not worse.

Baldy Foghorn
19-05-2012, 06:09 PM
I don't blame Fenlon, I blame Claros, Osbourne and Soares, who all did hee haw, and let Black run all over them....

Guttless midfield, shocking today, sums up our poor season..........

HKhibby
19-05-2012, 06:13 PM
Won't be here in November IMHO.

Terrible record and I see no improvement. We play for hours and don't score.


With any luck! never liked the guy in the first place!

Beefster
19-05-2012, 06:14 PM
I don't blame Fenlon, I blame Claros, Osbourne and Soares, who all did hee haw, and let Black run all over them....

Guttless midfield, shocking today, sums up our poor season..........

You missed out Stevenson. He was playing in midfield too and was equally poor.

Cropley10
19-05-2012, 06:16 PM
I bet you couldn't ****ing wait to post that. :rolleyes:

Yeah I was hoping we'd get murdered so I could.

Take throw ins, we concede the ball at every one of ours. He says the layers have no desire. Why is that? What exactly has he done? Other than be less bad than Dunfermline?

Baldy Foghorn
19-05-2012, 06:17 PM
You missed out Stevenson. He was playing in midfield too and was equally poor.

Indeed, but as he has been one of our most consistent this season, I was cutting him some slack, the others however.......

Baldy Foghorn
19-05-2012, 06:18 PM
With any luck! never liked the guy in the first place!

His main objective was to secure SPL status, which he done, lets not crucify him on the back of Today

sesoim
19-05-2012, 06:21 PM
Fenlon has to take some of the blame. His tactics are poor, his results have been as as bad a CC's, and if thinks Booth is worse than the guff out there today then he hasn't got a clue. However, it would be totally unfair to not give him a few months to make some permanent signings.

Some of those players are lazy b*****ds and they can f-off into oblivion as far as I'm concerned.

But ultimately I still blame Petrie the most for appointing a series of bad managers. Managers are the most important people at a club, and we have had some of the worst ones in the SPL over the last six years.

Wotherspiniesta
19-05-2012, 06:24 PM
Yeah I was hoping we'd get murdered so I could.

Take throw ins, we concede the ball at every one of ours. He says the layers have no desire. Why is that? What exactly has he done? Other than be less bad than Dunfermline?

You're at it, Crops. Throw in's? That's a wafer thing argument you've come up with there. We've always been ***** at throw in's.


To answer your last question. He got us to a Scottish Cup Final. Which is pretty damn impressive, considering our league position.

rcarter1
19-05-2012, 06:24 PM
today was ****, but Fenlon sees things clearly. I hope the board are rational enough to see past today and give him a chance. The players today were ****, as they have been most of the season, and good riddance to all that leave except McPake who never deserved to be on the losing side.

number9dream
19-05-2012, 06:27 PM
Naive beyond belief in his tactics today.

4 central midfielders in a 4 man midfield was madness.

Not for the first time he's been found wanting. He has a hell of a lot to prove, make no mistake.

You forgot to mention he was dressed like a tramp on Scottish Cup final day...

IFONLY
19-05-2012, 06:34 PM
You forgot to mention he was dressed like a tramp on Scottish Cup final day...


So next time (if there is one) he should wear a suit, then we will put up a better performance. Wake up please what has his dress sense got to do with the performance and the result????????

Cropley10
19-05-2012, 07:23 PM
You're at it, Crops. Throw in's? That's a wafer thing argument you've come up with there. We've always been ***** at throw in's.


To answer your last question. He got us to a Scottish Cup Final. Which is pretty damn impressive, considering our league position.

Sorry, I'm hurting. He talks about a lack of desire, well that's mostly from players he brought in, so they either never had it or it's been lost. I just don't see it from
him sorry.

Wotherspiniesta
19-05-2012, 07:29 PM
Sorry, I'm hurting. He talks about a lack of desire, well that's mostly from players he brought in, so they either never had it or it's been lost. I just don't see it from
him sorry.

We're all hurting mate. I see desire in some. Mcpake for one, shows it in bundles. I see the desire in Pat aswell. I think he's done a fairly decent job in the short time he's been here, but we cannot keep sacking managers every year. Pat's done relatively well and has led this team to a Scottish Cup final. If he gets a decent budget for next year I think he can do even better. But he needs time to do this job properly.

Baldy Foghorn
19-05-2012, 07:32 PM
We're all hurting mate. I see desire in some. Mcpake for one, shows it in bundles. I see the desire in Pat aswell. I think he's done a fairly decent job in the short time he's been here, but we cannot keep sacking managers every year. Pat's done relatively well and has led this team to a Scottish Cup final. If he gets a decent budget for next year I think he can do even better. But he needs time to do this job properly.

Agree with this, our club now needs stability, and Fenlon must be given the tools to help him do better... I like him, find his honesty refreshing.........

loanheadhibby
19-05-2012, 07:33 PM
Sorry, I'm hurting. He talks about a lack of desire, well that's mostly from players he brought in, so they either never had it or it's been lost. I just don't see it from
him sorry.

Fenlon is an imposter with his Loi crap. But the biggest imposter is Petrie. Sack the board.

Remember it was Fenton who told us that Claros was a star! Aye a f?cking monster! I hope I never see that guy in a hibs jersey again.

Speedway
19-05-2012, 07:37 PM
Say what you like but his tactics are poor. He let's the oposition have far to much time on the ball. Our defence and midfield had only about 5 yards between them or less for most of the game and this has been the way he set his teams up all the time he has been here.
I hope he has other ideas for next season because if not I can see us in the same position as now if not worse.

If he'd have parked the bus or an other tactic today, do you think the result would have been different?

Hiber-nation
19-05-2012, 07:39 PM
Agree with this, our club now needs stability, and Fenlon must be given the tools to help him do better... I like him, find his honesty refreshing.........

Exactly. If we sack another manager then we're an even bigger laughing stock if that's possible.

Sergio sledge
19-05-2012, 07:47 PM
Exactly. If we sack another manager then we're an even bigger laughing stock if that's possible.

:agree: We are all in with Fenlon, the club have to give him complete carte Blanche to do whatever it takes this summer to change the culture at the club. He has to be allowed to get rid of whoever he wants, whether that is coach, physio, kit man, chef, but most of all whatever players he wants rid of have to go, whatever the cost. Then he must be allowed to bring in his players and staff, whoever he wants.

heidtheba
19-05-2012, 07:48 PM
So next time (if there is one) he should wear a suit, then we will put up a better performance. Wake up please what has his dress sense got to do with the performance and the result????????

I thought he went and changed from his suit to tracksuit between the hand shake thing and kickoff?

HibbySpurs
19-05-2012, 07:50 PM
Good one all those baying for Fenlon's blood:rolleyes:

Let's just keep the Hibs managerial revolving door turning eh, that'll really help us:aok:

Fenlon had one aim when appointed - Keep us in the SPL... Now let's see, job done, not spectuaularly but still, job done!

Plus a Scottih Cup final (somehow).

Why do you think the majority of signings in January were loans? Simple, the board were terrified of relegation and wouldnt let him sign guys on longer contracts in case they had to pay them off in the summer.

The vast majority of these guys have showed no commitmement or desire at various times (primarily because they knew they would be away again in the summer) but Fenlon still got enough out of them to scramble us home. And you want this guy sacked????? The mind boggles.

What MUST happn now with the extra ST money and the dough from the cup run is that it is gien to Fenlon to begin the process of rebuilding a shattered squad with real players who want to play football at a big club with a big support behind them. I for one think that this man should be given that chance.

We as fans must get behind HIM and give him that chance and look for REALISTIC improvement next season (i.e. fighting most likely just to get into the top 6)..... Provided he can bring an improvement next season to "mid table mediocrity" he'll be going the right way, then the season after we should be looking for that to be built on.

I'm sorry guys but IMO we are "damaged goods" just now and anyone hoping for a magic wand to take us into the top third of the table next season is off their head.

Fenlon, must be given time and money to take us back to were we want to be but we as fans must be patient and give him 100% backing...

The board? Well that's another issue altogether.

GGTTH

Alfred E Newman
19-05-2012, 07:50 PM
This hotch potch team of loan players and cheap buys was put together to keep us in the league. No way were they ever going to be good enough to win the cup. It would have been an insult to all those great Hibs players from the past who never managed the feat. The sooner the most of them have packed their bags the better.
.

HFC 0-7
19-05-2012, 07:52 PM
We're all hurting mate. I see desire in some. Mcpake for one, shows it in bundles. I see the desire in Pat aswell. I think he's done a fairly decent job in the short time he's been here, but we cannot keep sacking managers every year. Pat's done relatively well and has led this team to a Scottish Cup final. If he gets a decent budget for next year I think he can do even better. But he needs time to do this job properly.

You say fenlon has done fairly well? It's a results business I am sure you will agree and on results his record is worse than calderwood. Many from that team today were fenlons and they didn't stand up to the test, no where near in fact. We are in the same position now as last time with cc where we are about to give a manager that hasn't shown he is up to the task in terms of results , a summer transfer window. That was one of the worst performances I have seen. The players didn't look interested, they didn't look like they knew what to do, what position to be in. When there is a large part of the team that are the managers signings and they are rubbish, who would you blame?

erskine-hibby
19-05-2012, 08:03 PM
If he'd have parked the bus or an other tactic today, do you think the result would have been different?

I watched numerous hearts players today...hell players from all clubs, walk up the park without being challenged for 40/50 yards. It is obvious that he sees this as being ok or he would have been kicking ass sooner. These "tactics" allow the opposition to dictate the game and we have been dictated to for most of the season. As I said at some points in the game it was hard to tell when the defensive line ended and the midfield started. We have no shape, unless you call a straight line shape??
I wish we could have had a bus to park today but i'm afraid we only have 11 small scooters...without any petrol in them to boot.

Wotherspiniesta
19-05-2012, 08:11 PM
You say fenlon has done fairly well? It's a results business I am sure you will agree and on results his record is worse than calderwood. Many from that team today were fenlons and they didn't stand up to the test, no where near in fact. We are in the same position now as last time with cc where we are about to give a manager that hasn't shown he is up to the task in terms of results , a summer transfer window. That was one of the worst performances I have seen. The players didn't look interested, they didn't look like they knew what to do, what position to be in. When there is a large part of the team that are the managers signings and they are rubbish, who would you blame?

How can you judge the manager on the players he's signed thus far though? Most of his signings have been loan signings. Signings intended for the sole purpose of keeping us up. He did that did he not? And he got us to the cup final. Calderwood never looked interested in being here. And you cant tell simply by the way both managers speak about the club, who wants/wanted the best for Hibernian. The players that took the field today were the same team that put in a great performance against Dunfermline the other week, so what would you have done differently? Fenlon can't be blamed for the players not turning up today and I find it staggering that 90 minutes would make such a drastic impact on people's opinion of a manager. A win today and we'd be giving Pat freedom of the city and a 5 year contract extension.

Perspective, please.

HibbySpurs
19-05-2012, 08:19 PM
How can you judge the manager on the players he's signed thus far though? Most of his signings have been loan signings. Signings intended for the sole purpose of keeping us up. He did that did he not? And he got us to the cup final. Calderwood never looked interested in being here. And you cant tell simply by the way both managers speak about the club, who wants/wanted the best for Hibernian. The players that took the field today were the same team that put in a great performance against Dunfermline the other week, so what would you have done differently? Fenlon can't be blamed for the players not turning up today and I find it staggering that 90 minutes would make such a drastic impact on people's opinion of a manager. A win today and we'd be giving Pat freedom of the city and a 5 year contract extension.

Perspective, please.

:agree:

:pfgwa

erskine-hibby
19-05-2012, 08:24 PM
How can you judge the manager on the players he's signed thus far though? Most of his signings have been loan signings. Signings intended for the sole purpose of keeping us up. He did that did he not? And he got us to the cup final. Calderwood never looked interested in being here. And you cant tell simply by the way both managers speak about the club, who wants/wanted the best for Hibernian. The players that took the field today were the same team that put in a great performance against Dunfermline the other week, so what would you have done differently? Fenlon can't be blamed for the players not turning up today and I find it staggering that 90 minutes would make such a drastic impact on people's opinion of a manager. A win today and we'd be giving Pat freedom of the city and a 5 year contract extension.

Perspective, please.

Who is to say that the players we had, as bad as they were, before wouldn't have kept us up??
He can be judged on the players he brought in even if they were loan signings...they were still HIS loan signings. Yes we didn't get relegated but did we actually improve under Fenlon so far???...that is up for debate.
I am not calling for his head, but to think there has been any great improvement at the club is a bit of an overstatement. Apart from McPake the rest I would not lose any sleep in getting rid.
He has to get players in sooner rather than(the usual Hibs) later, get them working as a team and discover some tactics while he is at it.

PapillonVert
19-05-2012, 08:35 PM
Aye, brilliant guys. Let's blame this manager. :aok:

We've clearly no had enough ****ing good managers over the past few years. A year is not long enough to put together a succesful team. Certainly not at this club.

Fenlon speaks the truth. If any of you cared to read what he said after the game you'd know he can see things aren't as they should be. He was brought in to keep the club up and he's done that. Who'd have thought he would have brung us to a Scottish Cup Final? Not ****ing one of you.

If you think he got the tactis or the players wrong then you need to have a look a little closer to home. I gaurantee almost 90-95% of Hibs fans would have went with that starting line up today. So you should all get sacked n' aw. What can he do if the players **** themselves on the occasion? He done what he could, bringing off Claros before half time was a brave thing to do, but it was the right thing to do. The guy was completely lost out there.

Sacking manager after manager has got us absolutely nowhere. Infact it's doing a lot more damage than is is good. Utterly embarassing that some of you are wanting Fenlon sacked. Naive beyond comprehension.

Well said.

Look at our league position - it tells you all you need to know about the quality (sic) of the squad.

TBH, I am amazed we got to the Cup final. I am still a bit bemused as to how this motley crew of huffers and puffers and heidless chickens managed even that. Hearts have got themselves into massive debt and have in essence bought two Scottish Cups on the back of living well outwith their means. I still believe that one day the chickens will come home to roost on that. Still, it's been clear all season that their squad is bigger, stronger, more athletic and better organised (much better!) that our useless bunch. They are no world beaters by any means but are still way ahead of us.

I hope there is a huge clear-out now at ER. I can' think of anyone in the playing (sic) squad whom I would miss unduly. I suspect it is going to take two or three years just to stabilise the club.

I don't expect miracles next season either. We'll be doing well to end up seventh or eighth.

HibbySpurs
19-05-2012, 08:39 PM
Who is to say that the players we had, as bad as they were, before wouldn't have kept us up??
He can be judged on the players he brought in even if they were loan signings...they were still HIS loan signings. Yes we didn't get relegated but did we actually improve under Fenlon so far???...that is up for debate.
I am not calling for his head, but to think there has been any great improvement at the club is a bit of an overstatement. Apart from McPake the rest I would not lose any sleep in getting rid.
He has to get players in sooner rather than(the usual Hibs) later, get them working as a team and discover some tactics while he is at it.

I agree with you to an extent but the bottom line is he kept us up when largely only able to make loan signings.

What happens next season is what counts for him, if we make realistic improvement I'll be happy but if come December we fin ourselves staring relegation in the face then questions have to be asked but those questions really also have to be asked of the board.

If we are toiling then the board should accept their inability to appoint a manager of suitable quality has cost us and be removed at the same time.

I think most folk are saying let's give this guy a genuine chance by not expecting miracles next season.

Dinkydoo
19-05-2012, 08:45 PM
Yeah I was hoping we'd get murdered so I could.

Take throw ins, we concede the ball at every one of ours. He says the layers have no desire. Why is that? What exactly has he done? Other than be less bad than Dunfermline?

Nothing really.....

He tried to get a performance out of a bunch of journeymen.

He was brought in to save us from the freefall the CC put us in. He did that, and brought us a cup run.

First post after the game from you is the same negative pish with towards Fenlon as what you've been posting for the past couple of months......

Sudds_1
19-05-2012, 08:49 PM
Aye, brilliant guys. Let's blame this manager. :aok:

We've clearly no had enough ****ing good managers over the past few years. A year is not long enough to put together a succesful team. Certainly not at this club.

Fenlon speaks the truth. If any of you cared to read what he said after the game you'd know he can see things aren't as they should be. He was brought in to keep the club up and he's done that. Who'd have thought he would have brung us to a Scottish Cup Final? Not ****ing one of you.

If you think he got the tactis or the players wrong then you need to have a look a little closer to home. I gaurantee almost 90-95% of Hibs fans would have went with that starting line up today. So you should all get sacked n' aw. What can he do if the players **** themselves on the occasion? He done what he could, bringing off Claros before half time was a brave thing to do, but it was the right thing to do. The guy was completely lost out there.

Sacking manager after manager has got us absolutely nowhere. Infact it's doing a lot more damage than is is good. Utterly embarassing that some of you are wanting Fenlon sacked. Naive beyond comprehension.

:top marks
:top marks

erskine-hibby
19-05-2012, 08:54 PM
I agree with you to an extent but the bottom line is he kept us up when largely only able to make loan signings.

What happens next season is what counts for him, if we make realistic improvement I'll be happy but if come December we fin ourselves staring relegation in the face then questions have to be asked but those questions really also have to be asked of the board.

If we are toiling then the board should accept their inability to appoint a manager of suitable quality has cost us and be removed at the same time.

I think most folk are saying let's give this guy a genuine chance by not expecting miracles next season.

Keeping us up with the leeway he was given in January was no miracle.
What I can't/won't accept is the lack of real progress and as such reserve my right to question this.
I agree he must be given time to try and rebuild this shattered club, but how long do you give??
If, as you say, we give him to December and decide he is not the guy, we will be no better off than we are now.
The board has a hell of a lot to answer for IMHO for years of neglect of the team on the park, but they can start to address this right now and make sure we have a team fully in place and trained up before the start of next season.
I don't expect miracles, though anything less than 6th place will be deemed a failure IMO.

HibbySpurs
19-05-2012, 09:08 PM
Keeping us up with the leeway he was given in January was no miracle.
What I can't/won't accept is the lack of real progress and as such reserve my right to question this.
I agree he must be given time to try and rebuild this shattered club, but how long do you give??
If, as you say, we give him to December and decide he is not the guy, we will be no better off than we are now.
The board has a hell of a lot to answer for IMHO for years of neglect of the team on the park, but they can start to address this right now and make sure we have a team fully in place and trained up before the start of next season.
I don't expect miracles, though anything less than 6th place will be deemed a failure IMO.

I think we're basically on the same page here.

The bord paniked in January and let him sign all the "loan" players he wanted to avoid relegation but mostly loans so they cold be shipped out if the unthinkable happend and we had to try and get back up on a smaller budget. Had we gone down we would have been knackered for years to come.

I dont know about the time as football is a "results business" but if PF can secure some good signings to build on and next season we can achieve a safe 6/7 place then I think we should be happy. I hope he does because we need stability throughout the team to build upon.

I agree 100% about the board and have said elswhere that if this decline continues the we need new leadership at the top, not necessarily a new owner but fresh leadership at board level.

Today has been an awful day but I hope that PF is given sufficent funds to ensure our place and progression back up the SPL within reason and that will bring stability. I also hope PF has the nous to use those funds wisely enough to prove to us that he is the manager 98% of us hope he is.

No problem with you questioning current percieved lack of progression as it isnt good at present but it nags me that whilst these are largely PF's signings I dont think enough of them were "his players" to make the real difference we wanted in Jan.

Time will tell. GGTTH

Easter Road X1
19-05-2012, 09:14 PM
Today result was not good infact it was embarrising but Fenlon has came in and cobbled a team together with the sole purpose of survival. He has brought in all sorts, both good and bad in the January window but he actually done well with some of his signing and kept us up, some or most of the signing were stop gap but he now needs to be given the backing and the time to build his own team during the summer and I for 1 am fully behind him.

Give him a chance and leave him have a full pre-season to built his own team.

:pfgwa

Minder
19-05-2012, 10:12 PM
Apologies, if posted earlier - reason Fenlon spoken to by referee was due to his response to the fuds singing "There is only one Pat Fenlon" with a GIRUY - anyone else see it "Griffiths style". Fourth official call, could have been overlooked but was the right call.

HFC 0-7
19-05-2012, 11:22 PM
How can you judge the manager on the players he's signed thus far though? Most of his signings have been loan signings. Signings intended for the sole purpose of keeping us up. He did that did he not? And he got us to the cup final. Calderwood never looked interested in being here. And you cant tell simply by the way both managers speak about the club, who wants/wanted the best for Hibernian. The players that took the field today were the same team that put in a great performance against Dunfermline the other week, so what would you have done differently? Fenlon can't be blamed for the players not turning up today and I find it staggering that 90 minutes would make such a drastic impact on people's opinion of a manager. A win today and we'd be giving Pat freedom of the city and a 5 year contract extension.

Perspective, please.

Perspective? Getting to a final means nothing if you don't win. We never played anyone of real quality in getting there. Fenlon was not brought in just to avoid relegation , ask people within the club. We finished the league in the same place as calderwood had us in, so what's changed? Nothing! In my opinion fenlon has escaped criticism this season because we were still in the Scottish cup. His record so far boils down to having a worse record than the previous manager and being humiliated by hearts. I here people saying he needs time to build a squad, well, you can't do that if you sign loans all the time as you will be constantly re building. He has done nothing to convince me he is the man. All I hear is the same old rubbish about having a strong and winning mentality, well we still don't have it! So putting it into perspective against previous managers and league standings, we are just the same as when he took over, we aren't any stronger, we haven't changed the mentality. You say that fenlon can't be blamed for not turning up today. Well they didn't turn up for all the other games either apart from Dunfermline and its fenlons job to manage that. If we blamed the players every time we got beat and not the manager jim Duffy would still be in charge.

HibsMax
19-05-2012, 11:34 PM
Sacking manager after manager has got us absolutely nowhere. Infact it's doing a lot more damage than is is good.
agree with this.

Cropley10
05-08-2012, 02:06 PM
Picking up where he left off. Another horsing. Absolutely no improvement, I'd love to know what someone who was out of their depth would be doing if they were manager

Someone said they were going to a Party next Sunday, at Easter Road. Will be interesting if our manager has been able to get any of his ideas across regarding this fixture.

sesoim
05-08-2012, 02:46 PM
I thought his tactics were dreadful today. Stevens should not be in the team. Neither should Stevenson. And the attacking midfield trio system of Sproule, Wotherspoon and Doyle was a joke.

I thought it would be 3-0 and I wish now I had put a bet on. We shouldn't be heading into the new season expecting a smaller club to comfortably beat us, but that is where we are now thanks to Petrie and his awful appointments.

Northernhibee
05-08-2012, 03:09 PM
If you're thinking Pat Fenlon isn't the answer, you're asking the wrong question.

IF this season (one game in against a side who have already played a competitive game in Europe) is as bad as the last, we need to ask why a previously very successful manager can't turn the side around, and look at the board.

If it's the manager? A few poor appointments in a row - not good enough. Go.
If it's the board? Get out.

Let's think this through first.

Anyone care to tell me how they'd have won this game -strategy, selection, formation etc?

truehibernian
05-08-2012, 03:12 PM
Didn't do his homework at all for me - Dundee United play the same way as they have all last season.

Midweek they really made use of GMS and the vast majority of their good play came when they played the ball out into the wide areas for him to take on the full back. I honestly don't know anyone that rates Ivan as either a good defensively minded player, or a starting 11 player in a midfield. yet Fenlon persisted with this as he has done since he came into the job.

Midweek he will also have seen, if he was watching, Dundee United like to get the ball up quickly, often bypassing Rankin and Flood - they are the workers in there and often Utd like to play the ball out wide, or into Daly - any chance they get they like to cross or play beyond the midfield. Hibs played into their hands by playing a ridiculously negative system whereby Leigh was up top on his own.

United literally had their own half to meander into our half, unchallenged, and drop balls into Daly and Russell - you simply have to make their central defensive pair work for their wage. Leigh should have had Doyle or Caldwell alongside, working their defence, making them think - instead, once the ball was played past Leigh, they could walk the ball 10 yards into our territory - Lewis, Cairney and Wotherspoon (who didn't know what he was meant to be doing) were sitting right on the edge of our own box and on top of James McPake - Stephens looked like he had been visiting Paul McKenna pre-match and McKenna had forgotten to click his fingers to bring him out the trance.

4-4 ****** 2 next week, or faling that an attacking 4-3-3 which presses up the pitch.

And put Stephens on a train back to Wales - his fastest reaction is a yawn.

HFC 0-7
05-08-2012, 03:15 PM
If you're thinking Pat Fenlon isn't the answer, you're asking the wrong question.

IF this season (one game in against a side who have already played a competitive game in Europe) is as bad as the last, we need to ask why a previously very successful manager can't turn the side around, and look at the board.

If it's the manager? A few poor appointments in a row - not good enough. Go.
If it's the board? Get out.

Let's think this through first.

Anyone care to tell me how they'd have won this game -strategy, selection, formation etc?

Way to win this game is to have better players, again we have left it late to sign players. Fenlon has said he isn't happy with the squad yet, well, we all knew when the season would start and here we are again, starting a season where the manager isn't happy with the squad.

HibsMax
05-08-2012, 03:27 PM
Way to win this game is to have better players, again we have left it late to sign players. Fenlon has said he isn't happy with the squad yet, well, we all knew when the season would start and here we are again, starting a season where the manager isn't happy with the squad.

I read this all the time, year in and year out. Are Hibs really leaving it too late or do we just have massive problems enticing players to the club? I genuinely don't know but i struggle to believe that we just sit on our hands all off-season. It seems more likely (no evidence) that we are looking hard for players but just can't get guys of the required quality to join Hibs. And you know how much the fans like it when we sign just any old buddy? We don't like loanees. We don't like hasbeens / journeymen. We're very picky. If we sign the wrong players, the club gets crap. If we sign no players, the club gets crap. How do we MAKE the players that the fans want sign for the club? How do we force that to happen?

HFC 0-7
05-08-2012, 03:33 PM
I read this all the time, year in and year out. Are Hibs really leaving it too late or do we just have massive problems enticing players to the club? I genuinely don't know but i struggle to believe that we just sit on our hands all off-season. It seems more likely (no evidence) that we are looking hard for players but just can't get guys of the required quality to join Hibs. And you know how much the fans like it when we sign just any old buddy? We don't like loanees. We don't like hasbeens / journeymen. We're very picky. If we sign the wrong players, the club gets crap. If we sign no players, the club gets crap. How do we MAKE the players that the fans want sign for the club? How do we force that to happen?

Thats not our job, it's the boards and managers. Fenlon has come out and said he isn't yet happy with the squad, same thing happened with calderwood. It's not an easy job, but that's what the board and manager get paid for. If we can't entice players, then why? These things are the boards and managers job, they have to do it, f they can't then they need to go. Also, it's not about getting players in that the fans want, it's about getting ones in that the manager wants. We haven't done that.

Northernhibee
05-08-2012, 03:35 PM
Way to win this game is to have better players, again we have left it late to sign players. Fenlon has said he isn't happy with the squad yet, well, we all knew when the season would start and here we are again, starting a season where the manager isn't happy with the squad.

Pat should have been given the funds to get those players in and ready early.

It's STILL not his team.

If we're not improved this year, every finger of blame should be directed torwards the directors.

Hiber-nation
05-08-2012, 04:04 PM
Pat should have been given the funds to get those players in and ready early.

It's STILL not his team.

If we're not improved this year, every finger of blame should be directed torwards the directors.

:agree:

You can pick the bones out of his tactics and team selection but I am positive that any 11 players in our squad would have been beaten at least 3-0 today no matter how he set them out. Playing youngsters alongside some of that lot could potentially destroy their confidence.

LancsHibs
05-08-2012, 04:05 PM
We are struggling to recruit players for a number of reasons:
1. We are pish, have been for a few seasons and been getting worse, I imagine players aren't too keen on coming to a poor team on a downward spiral.
2. The SPL isn't a huge draw either
3. Money, it's tight and appears extremely tight even compared to our league rivals, we just don't seem to put together a package thats attracting our targets.
4. Can't see that a lot of payers view Pat Fenlon a man they would love o play for or enhance their careers.
Just hope these barriers can be overcome or overlooked and we get some players in sharpish that can change this season

HibsMax
05-08-2012, 04:10 PM
Thats not our job, it's the boards and managers. Fenlon has come out and said he isn't yet happy with the squad, same thing happened with calderwood. It's not an easy job, but that's what the board and manager get paid for. If we can't entice players, then why? These things are the boards and managers job, they have to do it, f they can't then they need to go. Also, it's not about getting players in that the fans want, it's about getting ones in that the manager wants. We haven't done that.

When I said "we" I didn't mean the fans, I meant Hibs.

We can't entice players because, IMO, there are better teams to play for. Simple. I don't think it's fair to sack the manager because none of his #1 targets will sign for the club.

I know it's about getting the players the manager wants. The reason I said that the fans want is because we're a fickly bunch and many signings are either :
1. not good enough,
2. journeymen,
3. loanees

and none of those players are welcomed at Easter Road. Unpopular signings are one of the main reasons we hear when fans talk about firing managers. So that's why I mentioned it.

HFC 0-7
05-08-2012, 05:29 PM
When I said "we" I didn't mean the fans, I meant Hibs.

We can't entice players because, IMO, there are better teams to play for. Simple. I don't think it's fair to sack the manager because none of his #1 targets will sign for the club.

I know it's about getting the players the manager wants. The reason I said that the fans want is because we're a fickly bunch and many signings are either :
1. not good enough,
2. journeymen,
3. loanees

and none of those players are welcomed at Easter Road. Unpopular signings are one of the main reasons we hear when fans talk about firing managers. So that's why I mentioned it.

I am not saying sack the manager, I am highlighting a point about how badly prepared we are. Yes there are better teams to play for, but, money talks and we do pay more in wages than the majority of the SPL. With that in mind, how can other teams get players in and we dont. You mention that we are fickle and that we dont like journeymen and loanees. I think we are right not to like this, and we have been proven right. Journeymen are usually journeymen because they cant settle in a side or dont cut it and are moved on. loanees are no good for our situation as we have seen that we need people dedicated to the team, not players that can quite easily not care because they will be moved on.

Like it or not these fans that have been on players backs for one reason or another are largely correct, they arent good enough. Re the part in bold, I think you have completely missed the point. Why do you think these signings are unpopular? has league placings and recent results not shown why these players are unpopular. Its because they arent good enough! Many times on here we have heard that people are over reacting and that we should give them time. It doesnt always take a lot of time to know whether a player is any good or not and some people come to that conclusion quickly whereas others like to give the benefit of the doubt and see if it pans out. Hibs are in such a situation now that possible good players are not going to good enough, we cant take any more gambles. Another poor season after last season, no cup final to entice people to renew and we really will be in trouble. If we are sitting at AGM time near the bottom, struggling again, we cant be told that we tried to get players in and they didnt want to come. It cant happen and everything needs to be done to sort it. We are at the point where another bad season could see many more fans turn away and say they will come back when its better. not ideal but its the way it is with fans.

Wotherspiniesta
18-08-2012, 04:54 PM
Well, we get this thread bumped to the top nearly everytime we lose a match.

Now's a more realistic time to judge Fenlon. New signings in, building his own team. Been a tricky first few games, but we've restored a bit of pride, got them working as a team, have the top scorer in the division and sit in 6th place.

Onwards and upwards! :pfgwa:fenlon

Tricla
18-08-2012, 04:56 PM
Here, here.

Northernhibee
18-08-2012, 05:01 PM
Was going to be mature and not bump this thread, but seeing as how someone else has done it, :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon

Macaroon
18-08-2012, 05:09 PM
Was going to be mature and not bump this thread, but seeing as how someone else has done it, :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon :fenlon

I totally agree. But let's not jump the gun just yet. :aok:

Stevo1875
18-08-2012, 05:16 PM
:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon

Fisherrow Harp
18-08-2012, 07:34 PM
:pfgwa:fenlon:fenlon
:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon:fenlon

Northernhibee
25-08-2012, 03:53 PM
:fenlon :giruy: :fenlon

Seeing as how this is brought up after every loss.

:fenlon

:pfgwa

HibernianBohs
25-08-2012, 04:12 PM
Go on the Nutsy!

Wotherspiniesta
25-08-2012, 04:13 PM
:fenlon:pfgwa

Hibiza
16-09-2012, 02:49 PM
Well done pat, keep it going. :flag:

Humo
16-09-2012, 02:57 PM
Don't forget the players they have shown so much more character and commitment (due to Pat)

:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa

Keith_M
16-09-2012, 04:03 PM
Does this mean that we might just get past the AGM, for once, without having sacked a manager?


:wink:

dmc1875
16-09-2012, 06:37 PM
Does this mean that we might just get past the AGM, for once, without having sacked a manager?


:wink:

:pray:

The press will no doubt mention this to Pat at some point leading up to the AGM and they will be met with a swift... :fenlon

Bookkeeper
16-09-2012, 06:41 PM
Well done pat, keep it going. :flag:

:agree: Yip, seems to have turned us around. Onwards and upwards :greengrin

NORTHERNHIBBY
16-09-2012, 06:53 PM
Now he has his own players and his own methods and so far so good.

Northernhibee
16-09-2012, 06:53 PM
I don't know what I'll do without the October/November speculation about who the new manager's going to be.

jacomo
16-09-2012, 09:31 PM
Does this mean that we might just get past the AGM, for once, without having sacked a manager?


:wink:

I'm worried Petrie might sack him out of habit.

If he gets called up to the Chairman's office for a chat in the week of the AGM I'd advise Pat to make his excuses, just in case.

:greengrin

hfc rd
16-09-2012, 09:36 PM
Really proving his doubters wrong. Keep up the good work pat!

Ozyhibby
16-09-2012, 09:45 PM
Wouldn't say he is proving his doubters wrong yet but credit where it due, this is a good solid start to the season. The players appear up for a fight which is something we have not seen since we had Brown, Thomson and Stewart in midfield.
There is a long way to go though and it's only a couple of weeks since he put out a weakened team which got us knocked out the league cup.
Well done on the last 5 league games though Pat.