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View Full Version : We shouldn't be too disheartened



madabouthibs
22-02-2012, 10:13 PM
Realistically, Motherwell shouldn't be getting beat from us, they're sitting pretty in third, soon to be challenging the Huns for 2nd, and us, well we're in a relegation battle.
I think if we'd lost 4-3 at Ibrox or Parkhead we'd be taking massive plaudits and jizzing about how great we'd played and how unlucky we were, and who was the last team to score 3 in glasgow etc etc......

Yes I know, excuse my optimism.......

TornadoHibby
22-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Realistically, Motherwell shouldn't be getting beat from us, they're sitting pretty in third, soon to be challenging the Huns for 2nd, and us, well we're in a relegation battle.
I think if we'd lost 4-3 at Ibrox or Parkhead we'd be taking massive plaudits and jizzing about how great we'd played and how unlucky we were, and who was the last team to score 3 in glasgow etc etc......

Yes I know, excuse my optimism.......

After a few years of very poor teams at Hibs it is increasingly difficult to retain optimism about individual matches let alone avoiding relegation for large numbers of the regular supporters I suspect! :agree:

just_joe
22-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Although I agree that Motherwell shouldn't be losing to us. Im looking at it as another game played and another lost.

essexhibee
22-02-2012, 10:24 PM
Although I agree that Motherwell shouldn't be losing to us. Im looking at it as another game played and another lost.

This. Another game when we were leading. Were relying on dunfy to keep losing which worrying.

Since1875
22-02-2012, 10:27 PM
Why should Motherwell not be getting beat from us?

Sorry but we are a......far bigger club with a far bigger fan base and a far better training ground and a far better stadium!! They have a far smaller wage bill and play there games on a council park!! I cant believe people are saying we shouldnt expect to be beating teams like this!!! Yes they are having a good season but come on, we should always be expecting to be beat teams like this!
GGTTH

Spike Mandela
22-02-2012, 10:30 PM
Time is running out for this patience game we need wins pronto. If Dunfermline pull off a result somewhere like they did at Killie then we are ****ed. Can't see where our next win is coming from.

muzzhfc
22-02-2012, 10:31 PM
just been on the bounce and theres some of them bad mouthing fenlon. we just lost to the team in 3rd place in the spl, 2 goals were penalties (how often does that happen). just gets me sooo annoyed. Fenlon has had, what, 4 games with "his" team, 2 defeats (in the top 3 in spl), 1 win and 1 draw.

scuttle
22-02-2012, 10:32 PM
Why should Motherwell not be getting beat from us?

Sorry but we are a......far bigger club with a far bigger fan base and a far better training ground and a far better stadium!! They have a far smaller wage bill and play there games on a council park!! I cant believe people are saying we shouldnt expect to be beating teams like this!!! Yes they are having a good season but come on, we should always be expecting to be beat teams like this!
GGTTH


Agreed we should be expecting to win against anyone we play,otherwise whats the point of playing

glenberviehibee
22-02-2012, 10:42 PM
Why should Motherwell not be getting beat from us?

Sorry but we are a......far bigger club with a far bigger fan base and a far better training ground and a far better stadium!! They have a far smaller wage bill and play there games on a council park!! I cant believe people are saying we shouldnt expect to be beating teams like this!!! Yes they are having a good season but come on, we should always be expecting to be beat teams like this!
GGTTH

Totaly agree with this why should we not be beating Motherwell,St Johnstone etc a draw should be a bad result against these teams never mind all the hard luck stories about how well these teams are doing we should be up there with them

We shouldnt be in this position and we should be looking to challenge the OF never mind beating teams like Motherwell ,StJohnstone etc and its a total disgrace that a club as big as hours with our fan base and facilities is staring relegation in the face

iain nolan
22-02-2012, 10:42 PM
the legue tables stays the same tonight . we go into killie game knowing we can score goals away from ER . so lets get be hind the playes and see what happens at the end off the weekend games:thumbsup:
just been on the bounce and theres some of them bad mouthing fenlon. we just lost to the team in 3rd place in the spl, 2 goals were penalties (how often does that happen). just gets me sooo annoyed. Fenlon has had, what, 4 games with "his" team, 2 defeats (in the top 3 in spl), 1 win and 1 draw.

Eyrie
22-02-2012, 10:43 PM
Very disappointing result this evening, particularly given how easily we lost a 1-0 lead immediately after the break.

Andy74
22-02-2012, 10:44 PM
just been on the bounce and theres some of them bad mouthing fenlon. we just lost to the team in 3rd place in the spl, 2 goals were penalties (how often does that happen). just gets me sooo annoyed. Fenlon has had, what, 4 games with "his" team, 2 defeats (in the top 3 in spl), 1 win and 1 draw.

It's the same on here. Blaming Fenlon is just badly, badly missing the point on where we are just now. If we manage to chase this guy out its game over.

stanton10
22-02-2012, 10:52 PM
it's the same on here. Blaming fenlon is just badly, badly missing the point on where we are just now. If we manage to chase this guy out its game over.

he has brought in all those defenders but none of them are doing what the they should be, is that what you get with loanees,

muzzhfc
22-02-2012, 11:11 PM
stack wasnt signed by fenlon, and stack gave away a penalty. did we play that badly? or are we just looking at the result and thats that. while the boys will be low on confidence, good performances help build it. dont get me wrong, id rather have 3 point or event 1 point, but if we are losing but playing well/alright (or at least better) then we will turn the corner

DH1875
23-02-2012, 12:27 AM
Thought we played OK first half and were unlucky to be only going in 1 up.
Can't agree with you guy's though. We shouldn't be beating Motherwell, WTF??????????????????? Is this really how far we have fallen?

The Harp Awakes
23-02-2012, 12:40 AM
Realistically, Motherwell shouldn't be getting beat from us, they're sitting pretty in third, soon to be challenging the Huns for 2nd, and us, well we're in a relegation battle.
I think if we'd lost 4-3 at Ibrox or Parkhead we'd be taking massive plaudits and jizzing about how great we'd played and how unlucky we were, and who was the last team to score 3 in glasgow etc etc......

Yes I know, excuse my optimism.......

A quick look at the league table and your point would seem fair enough. But to compare a trip to Motherwell with a game at Ibrox or Parkhead is just a joke. Motherwell have 1/2 if not less of the resources Hibs have and to be losing to them and other Clubs like St Johnstone, St Mirren, Kilmarnock season after season is unacceptable.

Where I do agree with you though is that we desperately need to show a bit of optimism and all pull together to get ourselves out of this mess. What we shouldn't do though is congratulate ourselves and say that getting beaten off Motherwell is acceptable. It never will be.

Nando™
23-02-2012, 12:43 AM
Why should Motherwell not be getting beat from us?

Sorry but we are a......far bigger club with a far bigger fan base and a far better training ground and a far better stadium!! They have a far smaller wage bill and play there games on a council park!! I cant believe people are saying we shouldnt expect to be beating teams like this!!! Yes they are having a good season but come on, we should always be expecting to be beat teams like this!
GGTTH

Because they're much better than us. That's the simple truth which no one can realistically argue with.

Hibernia&Alba
23-02-2012, 12:46 AM
Why should Motherwell not be getting beat from us?

Sorry but we are a......far bigger club with a far bigger fan base and a far better training ground and a far better stadium!! They have a far smaller wage bill and play there games on a council park!! I cant believe people are saying we shouldnt expect to be beating teams like this!!! Yes they are having a good season but come on, we should always be expecting to be beat teams like this!
GGTTH

I think he meant in relation to current form, mate. They are comfortably third in the league and were at home. In fairness we were big underdogs tonight, though your point about the stature of the clubs is valid. It's a disgrace that we find ourselves in this position.

pacorosssco
23-02-2012, 12:47 AM
Realistically, Motherwell shouldn't be getting beat from us, they're sitting pretty in third, soon to be challenging the Huns for 2nd, and us, well we're in a relegation battle.
I think if we'd lost 4-3 at Ibrox or Parkhead we'd be taking massive plaudits and jizzing about how great we'd played and how unlucky we were, and who was the last team to score 3 in glasgow etc etc......

Yes I know, excuse my optimism.......

Another time another place? Agreed at this time it is relevant but we should never be going to Motherwell looking to not get beat. They come to ER looking to win.

Sad times and no disrespect to a very decent Motherwell side.

We have just not been at the races for too long

Baldy Foghorn
23-02-2012, 12:49 AM
It's the same on here. Blaming Fenlon is just badly, badly missing the point on where we are just now. If we manage to chase this guy out its game over.

:agree::agree::agree:

Some of the reactions are IMO well over the top.....PF has to keep us in the SPL, and start a rebuilding job from there, but the fact that some are already doubting him is crazy....

I really think he has managed to add genuine quality, but fundamental basic errors are costing us bigtime

The_Horde
23-02-2012, 12:52 AM
Because they're much better than us. That's the simple truth which no one can realistically argue with.

Most sensible post on here.

woodyloon
23-02-2012, 01:19 AM
:agree::agree::agree:

Some of the reactions are IMO well over the top.....PF has to keep us in the SPL, and start a rebuilding job from there, but the fact that some are already doubting him is crazy....

I really think he has managed to add genuine quality, but fundamental basic errors are costing us bigtime

I think that PF can do a job for us, but I must admit I am starting to think he might have to do a job in the first division. I feel if The Pars put a cuple of results together we will be struggling. I do agree that the signings he managed to bring in look ok, but we were getting punished for mistake before PF arrived and the fact he almost signed a new team of players should mean we are harder to beat and the stupid errors would of been reduced, giving us a fighting chance of winning games. As much as I think we have to stick with PF, but I'm a bit concerned of some of his tatics, formations and subs, I sometimes wonder if he knows how to work with a squad of players, that have forgotten how to win, as he has mostly had to deal with wiining teams as a manager.

My biggest worry is why Hibs struggle to get any turn around with new managers, I mean just look at Motherwell, they appoint McCALL and it has little effect on there progress, the same with St Johnstone and Killie, they have all went on to better things. Now these are teams that we would love to think we are bigger than them, why not we can pay better wages, have a bigger stadium, our own training ground, but it looks like all that gets you nothing as teams that are classed as smaller clubs with less income seem to be able to produce winning teams on a more regular bases than we we can. My other worry is when we went down the last time we were maybe not the worst team in the league, but what is similar is we took the lead but couldn't keep hold of a lead, just look at the game we got relegated, at home to Umited we scored first, Brebner but lost, we also if Iremember right had some bad keeper errors, that turnt 3 points to 1 or even worse a defeat. And we seemed to suffer badly by getting punished for every mistake we made.

I really hope we can put a run together, but if I'm honest I can't see this happening, we really need every player playing to there capabilities, and we need to try and find a settled starting eleven, and not as CC did change it every week.

Andy74
23-02-2012, 01:21 AM
Thought we played OK first half and were unlucky to be only going in 1 up.
Can't agree with you guy's though. We shouldn't be beating Motherwell, WTF??????????????????? Is this really how far we have fallen?

I think we mean right now. Reality is they are better and playing at home. So yes, we have fallen that far but they have also performed above themselves recently.

Hainan Hibs
23-02-2012, 07:39 AM
Can we please stop this bumming up of other teams beyond need. First it's Celtic who are suddenly up there with Barcelona and knocking 4 or 5 past everyone ( managed two against fellow relegation candidates the Pars) and now it's total football Motherwell who are challenging for 2nd (nothing to do with the Huns ten point reduction).

How can I forget, they beat Hearts 3-0 don't you know!!!!!!

I find it pretty embarrassing we have now been reduced to mouthing off that we don't deserve to beat teams like Motherwell.

Hibees07
23-02-2012, 10:07 AM
Can we please stop this bumming up of other teams beyond need. First it's Celtic who are suddenly up there with Barcelona and knocking 4 or 5 past everyone ( managed two against fellow relegation candidates the Pars) and now it's total football Motherwell who are challenging for 2nd (nothing to do with the Huns ten point reduction).

How can I forget, they beat Hearts 3-0 don't you know!!!!!!

I find it pretty embarrassing we have now been reduced to mouthing off that we don't deserve to beat teams like Motherwell.

Bang on, Motherwell were very average last night, they had 2 decent players, the left winger & centre forward. How we cannot take even a point off that team was a joke. :agree:

Squealing pig
23-02-2012, 11:06 AM
the legue tables stays the same tonight . we go into killie game knowing we can score goals away from ER . so lets get be hind the playes and see what happens at the end off the weekend games:thumbsup:

Look on the bright side we gained a goal on dunfy

The Sea-gull
23-02-2012, 11:34 AM
Think what folk are saying is that, AT THIS TIME, we are not good enough to beat the likes of Well and St Johnstone.

If the league finished in the "natural" order all the time (basically based on potential wealth generated by the size of your support) Celtic or Rangers would win it/be second (as always happens anyway apart from when the yams through money at it in 05/06 managing second ahead of Rangers but still finished miles behind winners Celtic), the Yams, ourselves and Aberdeen would be jostling about for 3rd/4th and 5th. Dundee United would be sixth then "the rest" who all get roughly the same sort crowds would finish in the remaining places.

It is a disgrace for Hibs to ever be out of the top 5 or 6 but it has happened on countless occasions over the years. This is down to bad management at board room and pitch level and because of the particularly bad management we have endured recently, we are reduced to being forced to admit that beating Well, Killie, St Johnstone etc right now is beyond us.

Acceptable; no never.

Having to admit this is where we are right now; yes unfortunately.

truehibernian
23-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Football is a far more simple affair than people make out.

For me the answer is quite simple, and it is continuity - look at all the other sides and you will see that each of the last three seasons they have gradually added to their squads. They have not performed major surgery, and they have been fortunate (and backed) to keep players that are key to the team principle......take Motherwell for example. You have to commend their Board and the player (Jamie Murphy) for turning down Blackpool in the window. He saw it as a bad move, but he nailed his colours to the 'Well mast. Their side last night, depsite losing players this last 2 years, has some form of nucleus......Hately, Hammell, Murphy, Humphreys, Craigan, Jennings. Look at St Johnstone - same ethos - Liam Craig, Murray Davidson, Jody Morris (crucial), Dave MacKay. Dundee United - Jon Daly, Dixon, Sean Dillon, Pernis, Kenneth.

Hibs, due to mismanagement, have had four managers since Collins - each bringing in their own players, each culling the squad and releasing players previously brought in. The Board have also succumbed to letting important players go, for cash, rather than keep them and try and improve league position and form. Yes it's a double edged sword - but for me, letting Zemmama go for money was foolish for example.

Off field discipline has been woeful, our players continually in the paper for indiscretions. Trouble doesn't have to look hard to find a Hibs player. The balance of good team spirit and players being professional has swung the other way. Look at the stories under Hughes - dressing room fights, training ground incidents, drinking, arrests, players not turning up, young players being tapped for cash gambling. Calderwood comes in, and then we have the manager showing the club complete and utter disrespect during the B'Ham/Boro shambles, impacting heavily on pre-season, more importantly driving an almighty wedge between club and fans. The damage cannot be underestimated. We also now have a centre forward badly off form, due up in court, looking unfit and with his mind elsewhere - apparently telling fellow teammates he is offski - how on earth can that be tolerated or accepted.

Say what you like about Neil Lennon for example, but his man management is second to none. Look at the turnaround in Anthony Stokes for example, and the way he dealt with off field stuff with Kris Commons, and the fact that spirit is key. He connects the fans to the club, the players to the fans - all after a difficult start to his career and his own off field/on field behaviour. It's experience that counts.

In his short time at Hibernian, I am more than happy at the way Pat Fenlon is attempting to bridge that horrible gap that was created between fans and the club (under Hughes and Calderwood). I am also happy at the stories I hear about him not being happy seeing how accepting the players were of their plight and seeing 'happy faces' when there shouldn't be given the league position. But even if the worst were to happen, the Board have to stick with him and back him. They have to - or Hibernian will become the managerial hotseat that no one wants to touch for fear of the P45 after a season.

If people ask me if we think we will survive - my honest answer is no, I think we will be relegated this season. In truth it has been coming. But again in truth, it may be the catalyst for major change and restructuring at the top, which in my humble opinion has been needed 4 years ago. After the Collins saga, I think Rod should have stepped aside, the club should have employed a good, respected DoF, someone that the manager could bounce off and rely on to scout, be a sounding board to players too, advise the Board and Owner and also be a bond with the fans. Rod Petrie (and some others) now have a really negative reputation amongst fans of the club. That is starting to become a little corrosive. A fresh approach is needed, an energy and a vibrancy at the top is vital. As my old man would say....there is a 'foosty smell now' - whatever happens, I'm always a supporter wherever we end up and play. But we MUST stick by Fenlon and the team just now.

sh00byd00
23-02-2012, 12:07 PM
When is it ok to get disheartened? When we get relegated?

like others have said, it's another game lost and another game closer to relegation.

On the flip side, i don't get the arguments saying Hibs should almost always be a top 6 club. How do those people arrive at that conclusion? Because we have potentially more fans than the next club? We've been through countless managers, yet here we still are. Face it, we're ****, we have bottom 6 players and no manager is gonna change that. We are where we deserve to be. We all complain about the OF fans banging on about how they think they have the divine right to win titles etc, so it only stands to reason that our club has no divine right to finish in the top 6 year in, year out.

BEEJ
23-02-2012, 01:24 PM
Football is a far more simple affair than people make out.

For me the answer is quite simple, and it is continuity - look at all the other sides and you will see that each of the last three seasons they have gradually added to their squads. They have not performed major surgery, and they have been fortunate (and backed) to keep players that are key to the team principle......take Motherwell for example. You have to commend their Board and the player (Jamie Murphy) for turning down Blackpool in the window. He saw it as a bad move, but he nailed his colours to the 'Well mast. Their side last night, depsite losing players this last 2 years, has some form of nucleus......Hately, Hammell, Murphy, Humphreys, Craigan, Jennings. Look at St Johnstone - same ethos - Liam Craig, Murray Davidson, Jody Morris (crucial), Dave MacKay. Dundee United - Jon Daly, Dixon, Sean Dillon, Pernis, Kenneth.

Hibs, due to mismanagement, have had four managers since Collins - each bringing in their own players, each culling the squad and releasing players previously brought in. The Board have also succumbed to letting important players go, for cash, rather than keep them and try and improve league position and form. Yes it's a double edged sword - but for me, letting Zemmama go for money was foolish for example.

Off field discipline has been woeful, our players continually in the paper for indiscretions. Trouble doesn't have to look hard to find a Hibs player. The balance of good team spirit and players being professional has swung the other way. Look at the stories under Hughes - dressing room fights, training ground incidents, drinking, arrests, players not turning up, young players being tapped for cash gambling. Calderwood comes in, and then we have the manager showing the club complete and utter disrespect during the B'Ham/Boro shambles, impacting heavily on pre-season, more importantly driving an almighty wedge between club and fans. The damage cannot be underestimated. We also now have a centre forward badly off form, due up in court, looking unfit and with his mind elsewhere - apparently telling fellow teammates he is offski - how on earth can that be tolerated or accepted.

Say what you like about Neil Lennon for example, but his man management is second to none. Look at the turnaround in Anthony Stokes for example, and the way he dealt with off field stuff with Kris Commons, and the fact that spirit is key. He connects the fans to the club, the players to the fans - all after a difficult start to his career and his own off field/on field behaviour. It's experience that counts.

In his short time at Hibernian, I am more than happy at the way Pat Fenlon is attempting to bridge that horrible gap that was created between fans and the club (under Hughes and Calderwood). I am also happy at the stories I hear about him not being happy seeing how accepting the players were of their plight and seeing 'happy faces' when there shouldn't be given the league position. But even if the worst were to happen, the Board have to stick with him and back him. They have to - or Hibernian will become the managerial hotseat that no one wants to touch for fear of the P45 after a season.

If people ask me if we think we will survive - my honest answer is no, I think we will be relegated this season. In truth it has been coming. But again in truth, it may be the catalyst for major change and restructuring at the top, which in my humble opinion has been needed 4 years ago. After the Collins saga, I think Rod should have stepped aside, the club should have employed a good, respected DoF, someone that the manager could bounce off and rely on to scout, be a sounding board to players too, advise the Board and Owner and also be a bond with the fans. Rod Petrie (and some others) now have a really negative reputation amongst fans of the club. That is starting to become a little corrosive. A fresh approach is needed, an energy and a vibrancy at the top is vital. As my old man would say....there is a 'foosty smell now' - whatever happens, I'm always a supporter wherever we end up and play. But we MUST stick by Fenlon and the team just now.
:top marks

Nothing to add or change.

JimBHibees
23-02-2012, 02:18 PM
:agree::agree::agree:

Some of the reactions are IMO well over the top.....PF has to keep us in the SPL, and start a rebuilding job from there, but the fact that some are already doubting him is crazy....

I really think he has managed to add genuine quality, but fundamental basic errors are costing us bigtime

Completely he needs our complete support and the fans backing the team 100% to get us out of the mess we are in. Nothing at all he can do about individual errors and some players will naturally settle in quicker than others.