(SHC) Rob Jones et al, you should be ashamed of yourselves

[MB62]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

[Golden Bear]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

I totally agree with the sentiments of your post although I'm still of the opinion that as Captain, Big Rab was uncomfortable in the role he had to play in that very sad and embarrassing day for the Club.

[Ray_]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

:top marks

[Beefster]

I totally agree with the sentiments of your post although I'm still of the opinion that as Captain, Big Rab was uncomfortable in the role he had to play in that very sad and embarrassing day for the Club.

Yup. I was always under the impression that Jones was only acting, as captain, on the wishes of the squad.

[Gatecrasher]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.
100% spot on, I have lost a load of respect for football players over the last 6 or 7 years. To me they have went from geniuses to cheating, moaning, overpaid wimps who would last 5 minutes in most other sports.

[bawheid]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

When did this happen? I must have missed that part of the story. :confused:

[spike220]

100% spot on, I have lost a load of respect for football players over the last 6 or 7 years. To me they have went from geniuses to cheating, moaning, overpaid wimps who would last 5 minutes in most other sports.


There is some truth in that, the way some of them go down you would think there were snippers on the roofs.

[The_Exile]

I was under the impression Rod met them out of professional courtesy and told them in no uncertain term, Collins is the manager, you'll do what yer telt!

Jones had to get involved as he was the captain, although not sure he would've been entirely comfortable with the whole thing.

[ahibby]

I appreciate the point being made here and I am not defending lazy players. However it is worth keeping in mind that the three tennis players mentioned are at the top of their sport e.g. the equivalent of Manchester, Barcelona, Chelsea players and so to compare them with Hibs players is a wee bit off the mark. However, you just need to look back at Kevin Keegan to realise that a hard work ethic can lead to you becoming one of the top players (earnings too) even if you don't have the skills of the best players in the world. Rob Jones et al had an opportunity under John Collins to become better all round players and blew that opportunity in my opinion. |If Petrie took the side of the players then he hasn't done them or us any favours.

[Iain G]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

Same problem La Guen had at Rangers, trying to knock a Scottish football team into a proper professional sports outfit goes completely against the interest of the players who like a half day of work, loads of time off, time for a bit of golf and time to head out and be the big man about town and have a few bevvies with your adoring fans and assorted lackies...we missed our chance to push Hibs away from some of the ingrained problems and attitudes that are still lurking around the club and are probably quite likely one of the reasons we have failed to progress..

[Green&White]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

:top marks
I honestly believe we would have been consistently hitting top end of the table had collins stayed on, or even higher.
we should have begged him to come back well before now. as much as we laugh at the yams, if you think back not 2 long ,we also consistently shoot ourself in the foot.

[Pretty Boy]

When did this happen? I must have missed that part of the story. :confused:

Exactly.

My opinion of Rod Petrie is going downhill rapidly but to suggest he backed the players is nonsense. He agreed to a meeting, the fact it was at his home was wrong though.

In the months that followed the alleged ringleaders of the 'rebellion' were all shiped out the club, Mikey Stewart, Steven Whittaker, Ivan Sproule to name a few. That looks to me as though Rod backed the manager long term even if he handled the situation badly in the short term.

[blackpoolhibs]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

I love how history can be re written here on dot net, and then passed off as the truth. I believe we won the scottish cup 3 years on the trot during the 90's, what a fantastic time to be a Hibby, especially when you consider we also won the league cup and championship twice too.

[Pretty Boy]

:top marks
I honestly believe we would have been consistently hitting top end of the table had collins stayed on, or even higher.
we should have begged him to come back well before now. as much as we laugh at the yams, if you think back not 2 long ,we also consistently shoot ourself in the foot.

What exactly do you base this on?

I liked JC and his attempts at installing a professional attitude but he signed dross and we were already half the way down the hill when he jumped before being pushed. Some folk have selective memories, JC was public enemy number 1 on here just before he went, there were regular threads calling for him to GTF, polls suggesting a majority wanted him punted etc etc

[Liberal Hibby]

I love how history can be re written here on dot net, and then passed off as the truth. I believe we won the scottish cup 3 years on the trot during the 90's, what a fantastic time to be a Hibby, especially when you consider we also won the league cup and championship twice too.

Aye and the Champions League final penalty shoot out 'heartbreak' was a scunner too.

Especially as Messi missed the first...

[Wilson]

:top marks
I honestly believe we would have been consistently hitting top end of the table had collins stayed on, or even higher.
we should have begged him to come back well before now. as much as we laugh at the yams, if you think back not 2 long ,we also consistently shoot ourself in the foot.

We will always struggle as a selling club. Professionalism and fitness is desirable but in the end we'd still only be churning out superfit robots for the Old Firm and English Championship. Therefore, as important is being able to source a decent replacement quickly and cheap. Aside from not getting his philosophy across Collins failed in attaining adequate replacements under the constraints at Hibs.

Had he not gone when he did he would surely have taken the hump before much longer. The idea that we would have consistently been hitting the top of the table under Collins has no basis in reality.

[Heckys Wheel]

:top marks
I honestly believe we would have been consistently hitting top end of the table had collins stayed on, or even higher.
we should have begged him to come back well before now. as much as we laugh at the yams, if you think back not 2 long ,we also consistently shoot ourself in the foot.

John Collins. The next Mourinhio flying under the radar of EVERY club in the world. A secret genius that only a handful of Hibs fans have spotted as the real deal..

The tell tale signs? The ability to talk a good game.

What's putting everybody off his scent? His lack of man management skills, his eye for a non-player and, barring 2 short unexceptional stints in Belgium, nobody will touch him with a barge pole.

Cant believe this over emphasized meeting at RP's house is still being used as a stick to beat whoever is at the end of individual's agendas.

[jdships]

I was under the impression Rod met them out of professional courtesy and told them in no uncertain term, Collins is the manager, you'll do what yer telt!

Jones had to get involved as he was the captain, although not sure he would've been entirely comfortable with the whole thing.



Thought we had seen/heard the last of this incident but for what it's worth your post is as near th etruth as we will ever get.:thumbsup:
I had rellies at ER at the time and they were very reluctant to talk about the happenings .
One thing they did say was that RP made the managers "overall control" position very clear to those who "attended"the meeting

Again must add that Collins complete lack of "people skills" let him down at this time

Can we let it be in the past please

:flag:

[Andy74]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

Do you think any of those two would have got out of bed for Rob Jones's wages? :wink:

[Wilson]

Do you think any of those two would have got out of bed for Rob Jones's wages? :wink:

Certainly not if Kim Sears was in it...

[Green&White]

What exactly do you base this on?

I liked JC and his attempts at installing a professional attitude but he signed dross and we were already half the way down the hill when he jumped before being pushed. Some folk have selective memories, JC was public enemy number 1 on here just before he went, there were regular threads calling for him to GTF, polls suggesting a majority wanted him punted etc etc

Well i wasnt one of that majority. apart from this season due to money issues, ive been to every home game and a good few away games since the blobby days and imho the last good game of football we played was under collins.

we know mowbary mentioned when he left that there wasnt enough backing from the club to progress and bring in new players. then collins had to deal with losing all our best players to the old firm and not get enough funding to fend off other spl teams (hammil to well if he is to be believed).

as the OP mentions collins was trying to instil a work ethic into the club and it was working.

how any1 can deny that a good part (if not major) of our current predicament is due to the players at the club having the wrong attitude is beyond me.
so based on that and if collins had the same financial backing as yogi, mixu and CC had i IMHO believe we would be in a far far FAR better state now.

[Pretty Boy]

Well i wasnt one of that majority. apart from this season due to money issues, ive been to every home game and a good few away games since the blobby days and imho the last good game of football we played was under collins.

we know mowbary mentioned when he left that there wasnt enough backing from the club to progress and bring in new players. then collins had to deal with losing all our best players to the old firm and not get enough funding to fend off other spl teams (hammil to well if he is to be believed).

as the OP mentions collins was trying to instil a work ethic into the club and it was working.

how any1 can deny that a good part (if not major) of our current predicament is due to the players at the club having the wrong attitude is beyond me.
so based on that and if collins had the same financial backing as yogi, mixu and CC had i IMHO believe we would be in a far far FAR better state now.


Collins knew the budget he was working with.

It wasn't that different to the others you mentioned. However Collins chose to waste a huge chunk of it on 2 duds in O'Brien and MaKalambay. He realised his mistake, went looking for more cash, was told there was none so took the huff.

[Joe Baker II]

Agree with the principle behind comments but tennis is a poor analogy given players get a break for 1.5 minutes after every 2 games, and sometimes after only 1 game.

[Paisley Hibby]

John Collins. The next Mourinhio flying under the radar of EVERY club in the world. A secret genius that only a handful of Hibs fans have spotted as the real deal..

The tell tale signs? The ability to talk a good game.

What's putting everybody off his scent? His lack of man management skills, his eye for a non-player and, barring 2 short unexceptional stints in Belgium, nobody will touch him with a barge pole.

Cant believe this over emphasized meeting at RP's house is still being used as a stick to beat whoever is at the end of individual's agendas.

Spot on :top marks

[Green&White]

Collins knew the budget he was working with.

It wasn't that different to the others you mentioned. However Collins chose to waste a huge chunk of it on 2 duds in O'Brien and MaKalambay. He realised his mistake, went looking for more cash, was told there was none so took the huff.


Well if two players that couldnt have been on world shattering wages are all teh budget he had to replace the likes of brown, whittiker, thompson etc then i think we can all see the huge problem at our club.

i understand alot of that money was needed to balance the books so to speak but if im collins and your being told all ur best players are being sold and ur getting no money back to replace them..BUT... we are building this massive training complex (that lets be honest we didnt need and hasnt worked at all so far and wuld have been better used to improve on field issues) then id take the huff aswell.

[blackpoolhibs]

Well if two players that couldnt have been on world shattering wages are all teh budget he had to replace the likes of brown, whittiker, thompson etc then i think we can all see the huge problem at our club.

i understand alot of that money was needed to balance the books so to speak but if im collins and your being told all ur best players are being sold and ur getting no money back to replace them..BUT... we are building this massive training complex (that lets be honest we didnt need and hasnt worked at all so far and wuld have been better used to improve on field issues) then id take the huff aswell.

Well i think that rules you out of ever getting the job in the future.

[Andy74]

Well i wasnt one of that majority. apart from this season due to money issues, ive been to every home game and a good few away games since the blobby days and imho the last good game of football we played was under collins.

we know mowbary mentioned when he left that there wasnt enough backing from the club to progress and bring in new players. then collins had to deal with losing all our best players to the old firm and not get enough funding to fend off other spl teams (hammil to well if he is to be believed).

as the OP mentions collins was trying to instil a work ethic into the club and it was working.

how any1 can deny that a good part (if not major) of our current predicament is due to the players at the club having the wrong attitude is beyond me.
so based on that and if collins had the same financial backing as yogi, mixu and CC had i IMHO believe we would be in a far far FAR better state now.

Collins had more backing than any other recent manager with decent ransfer fees being paid, and ultimately wasted. I love JC but it really wasn't happening for him.

The Hammil thing is yet another myth. Maybe even JC believes it?

JC walked without talking to the board about targets and money as there. Money that was spent just weeks later when we paid fees for the likes of Nish and Rankin and we paid decent wages to Ian Murray who went in at left back. If JC had wanted Hammill, who shortly after went to Motherwell when they were totally strapped, he would have been fine to do so.

[PatHead]

Agree with the principle behind comments but tennis is a poor analogy given players get a break for 1.5 minutes after every 2 games, and sometimes after only 1 game.

Think they can be compared as tennis players are constantly sprinting around in short spells. If you take into account the amount of time the ball is up the park or out of play in football due to throw ins/injuries/fouls etc footballers get a break as well. In addition successful tennis players play matches every couple of days in addition to training. Would love to compare a footballer to a tennis player on Sporting Superstars nowadays. Doubt there was that much of difference years ago.

[Andy74]

Agree with the principle behind comments but tennis is a poor analogy given players get a break for 1.5 minutes after every 2 games, and sometimes after only 1 game.

Over 90 minutes I believe a footballer generally covers an average of about 8-9km.

For a five set tennis match the distance is about 6-7km.

Football probably has less upper body movement and less explosive movement but footballers are on the move almost continuously, have a lot more physical contact which itself is tiring and provides you with a few more physical aches and pains quite apart from the actual exertion.

Tennis players have a longer time period to last for of course but there is a regular opportunity to rest and rehydrate.

[ballengeich]

John Collins. The next Mourinhio flying under the radar of EVERY club in the world. A secret genius that only a handful of Hibs fans have spotted as the real deal..

The tell tale signs? The ability to talk a good game.

What's putting everybody off his scent? His lack of man management skills, his eye for a non-player and, barring 2 short unexceptional stints in Belgium, nobody will touch him with a barge pole.

Cant believe this over emphasized meeting at RP's house is still being used as a stick to beat whoever is at the end of individual's agendas.

Quite right. Within a few weeks of winning a trophy Collins turned the team into a demoralised shambles. I don't know what the dispute was about, but whatever Collins was trying to do, he lacked the management skills to achieve it. If people don't want to follow you, you're not a leader.

[Andy74]

Think they can be compared as tennis players are constantly sprinting around in short spells. If you take into account the amount of time the ball is up the park or out of play in football due to throw ins/injuries/fouls etc footballers get a break as well. In addition successful tennis players play matches every couple of days in addition to training. Would love to compare a footballer to a tennis player on Sporting Superstars nowadays. Doubt there was that much of difference years ago.

If taking the elite in each sport I doubt there'd be much in it.

The likes of Ronaldo would probably prove to have better all round physical attributes and fitness than Djokovic or Nadal.

Now, women's tennis. Most of them look better suited to darts.

[jdships]

If taking the elite in each sport I doubt there'd be much in it.

The likes of Ronaldo would probably prove to have better all round physical attributes and fitness than Djokovic or Nadal.

Now, women's tennis. Most of them look better suited to darts.

WOW !
Hope you have your tin hat on !:greengrin

[MB62]

The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

If I got this bit wrong, I unreservedly appologise to R.P. However there is no question that the reason J.C. walked was because of the lack of backing or ambition he received from his chairman and board.

Back to the main. John Collins was one of the fitest players and as a retired player and manager, was probably fitter than any of his squad. He tried to bring them up to a higer level of fitness and they cried their eyes out.

[The_Exile]

For Collins to get the side he wanted, with the mental attributes he wanted, he'd have needed about 75 million quid to assemble it. You can't and will never be able to do it with a bunch laddies from Scotland.

[Ray_]

If taking the elite in each sport I doubt there'd be much in it.

The likes of Ronaldo would probably prove to have better all round physical attributes and fitness than Djokovic or Nadal.

Now, women's tennis. Most of them look better suited to darts.

There's a fair number of players that have graced our club strip over the last four years that would have been better suited to darts.

[jdships]

Originally Posted by MB62 View Post
The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.

If you ever get the chance to speak with players or ex players who were at ER at that time they will tell you that RP made the managers "overall control" position very clear to those who "attended"the meeting .
" never let the truth get in the way of a good story " comes to mind :rolleyes:

[RIP]

Harking back to the days of Rob Jones when he went crawling and moaning to Fraud about J.C. training the players too hard and asking to much of them, the recent exersions of Djocovic, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, (although if he had made the final I am sure he would have been fit enough too) should really put these guys, and every other football player, to shame.
John Collins noticed the lack of fitness and probably professionalism, that his squad had and tried to do something about it. The players didn't like having to work that bit harder and moaned to R.P. who quite incredibly, I believe took their side against his manager.
Football players and managers still today moan about them having to play 2 games a week, yet over the past few days in the tennis, we have seen Djokovic in particular play about 11 hours of top class tennis in the space of three days, in incredible heat, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL BEING FIT.

Next time any player or manager complains about how many games they are having to play, I hope somebody reminds them about the 2012 Australian Open Tennis.

Utter disgrace of a thread title - get it sorted PRONTO. Anyone who ever met the big man knows that he was not one of the complainers. He was the captain and he merely did what he was asked to do.

Oh and by the way - he knew how to head a ball clear - Hanlon brothers please note!! Part of the best defence in the SPL - what we'd give for that now

[Viva_Palmeiras]

FEd upgrading the stuff about the revolt

Iirc there are only 2 players left from that era.
Lots of stuff spouted as FACT. I'd love the board to clean this pumas it's hanging around like a bad smell and contributing to the gulf between the Players and fans

So board over to you either it was pish or lessons have been learnt and it wed all love to hear about that.

Record it out it onyoutube and have a sticky on here the bounce and fishul site

[bawheid]

FEd upgrading the stuff about the revolt

Iirc there are only 2 players left from that era.
Lots of stuff spouted as FACT. I'd love the board to clean this pumas it's hanging around like a bad smell and contributing to the gulf between the Players and fans

So board over to you either it was pish or lessons have been learnt and it wed all love to hear about that.

Record it out it onyoutube and have a sticky on here the bounce and fishul site

What?

:greengrin

[JohnScott]

RP invited the players to HIS HOME to let them know the manager had overall control?!!

Do some of you guys read what you type before posting? No offence like.

[Since90+2]

Over 90 minutes I believe a footballer generally covers an average of about 8-9km.

For a five set tennis match the distance is about 6-7km.

Football probably has less upper body movement and less explosive movement but footballers are on the move almost continuously, have a lot more physical contact which itself is tiring and provides you with a few more physical aches and pains quite apart from the actual exertion.

Tennis players have a longer time period to last for of course but there is a regular opportunity to rest and rehydrate.


Playing a 5 set 5 hour (or nearly 6 hours as was the case with Djokovic - Nadal) tennis match would be far more physically draining than playing 90 minutes of football especially when you consider the heat and humidity alot of the tennis matches are played in aswell.

[supersauzee]

Excellent post by OP! :agree:

That is one of the reasons I have become pissed off with Scottish Football!



Over 90 minutes I believe a footballer generally covers an average of about 8-9km.

For a five set tennis match the distance is about 6-7km.

Football probably has less upper body movement and less explosive movement but footballers are on the move almost continuously, have a lot more physical contact which itself is tiring and provides you with a few more physical aches and pains quite apart from the actual exertion.

Tennis players have a longer time period to last for of course but there is a regular opportunity to rest and rehydrate.

That is rubbish, you really think half our players cover that amount ground. The point the OP was trying to make was if the Hibs or any other Scottish football players trained or acted in half the manner that these tennis players do then we would be in alot better a position. They get paid ALOT of money and then to only give half the effort is cheating the club and fans!

It doesnt matter if these tennis players are on par with the likes of Messi, etc at the top of their as they should be striving to be the best they can be and not worrying about playing golf or gambling and drinking, etc!

JC would have taken Hibs very far if his ethos had been implemented but the players were worried about not having their days off, etc! It is shocking!!

[sahib]

RP invited the players to HIS HOME to let them know the manager had overall control?!!

Do some of you guys read what you type before posting? No offence like.

This thread is revisionist crap. IIRC the players complained that the training was poor, repetitive and they were becoming less fit. I thiink it was after the incident that the session with John"s friend Rodger was arranged and that is when we saw a fit looking team take to the park. JC should have and probably has, learned from his time at Hibs. His basic philosophies were sound and close to the heart of all Hibs fans but his methods of putting them in to practice needed a bit of work.

[The Modfather]

What exactly do you base this on?

I liked JC and his attempts at installing a professional attitude but he signed dross and we were already half the way down the hill when he jumped before being pushed. Some folk have selective memories, JC was public enemy number 1 on here just before he went, there were regular threads calling for him to GTF, polls suggesting a majority wanted him punted etc etc

Not having an individual go at you Pretty Boy, but the selective memory bit re Collins, works both way.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?220820-John-Collins-(merged)/page4&highlight=collins - post 101

For those who wont bother, here's Stevie Reid's excellent post. Stevie, hope you don't mind me quoting your excellent summary!


"Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead).

Let's have a little perspective here - when JC resigned, our league record was: -

P 17 W 7 D 6 L 4

27 points from 17 games - 1.6 points per game, enough to secure us 60 points over the course of the season (Motherwell finished 3rd on 60 points). People will rightly point out that we had won only one out of his last 8 in charge (W 1 D 3 L 4) but 3 of those defeats were away to Motherwell, Aberdeen and ICT respectively - only the home defeat to St. Mirren could truly be considered a very bad result.

It's also worth bearing in mind that for 3 of the 6 draws we had had up to JC's departure, we came from 2 goals down (we also came back from 2 goals down to win against Gretna), meaning that we secured 6 points from losing positions in those four games - when have we been as resilient as that since? Yes, we were on a bad run when JC left, but to imply that we were only going one way is pure conjecture. The upturn in form when Mixu took over (the best spell of his time at Hibs, largely with JC's team, obviously) came from 6 wins from 7 games, where the fixtures were home games Gretna, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell and Killie, with an away game at Falkirk too - I would have fancied JC to have got us results in those games too.

I appreciate that that is also conjecture on my part, but there is more evidence to suggest that JC's side were having a bad spell (which Hibs team doesn't?), rather than us being headed towards the bottom of the league. Colllins had 7 wins out of 17 games - we won another 7 out of the remaining 21 games that season, so Collins' time was easily the best. The fact that Mixu had us in the top 6 weeks before the split, owed a lot to the great early form of JC's Hibs team.

I would like to make it clear that I thought Collins' reasons for walking away from Hibs were nonsense, there's no way that the targets that he was after would have been realistic for us - I also remember the dodgy signings and the incidents like playing McCann at centre half at Pittodrie - however, Collins deserves a lot better than many on here are giving him. Given how much time some were prepared to give Calderwood's team to gel and come good, it's incredible that people can state with such certainty that JC's 2007-08 team were just a flash in the pan being found out, as opposed to a decent team going through a sticky patch.

We will never know one way or the other now - but there's no way that Collins left us in as bad a way as many on here are stating. An overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 and a 5-1 national cup final win means he should ALWAYS be highly regarded, and well remembered."

[patlowe]

Playing a 5 set 5 hour (or nearly 6 hours as was the case with Djokovic - Nadal) tennis match would be far more physically draining than playing 90 minutes of football especially when you consider the heat and humidity alot of the tennis matches are played in aswell.

The mental strength of these guys is incredible as well, 5/6 hours of an intense personal battle with no teammates to bail you out if struggling for form or energy.

I have a huge amount of respect for these guys, pure dedication to their profession. Someone said earlier that we shouldn't compare guys at the top of their sport to our players but the bottom line is that a lack of fitness and discipline drags us down in Scotland and we will never get near the top level of football if players are unwilling to dedicate themselves fully to being the best they can be.

[Since90+2]

Must say an overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 looks pretty decent

[smurf]

Exactly.

My opinion of Rod Petrie is going downhill rapidly but to suggest he backed the players is nonsense. He agreed to a meeting, the fact it was at his home was wrong though.

In the months that followed the alleged ringleaders of the 'rebellion' were all shiped out the club, Mikey Stewart, Steven Whittaker, Ivan Sproule to name a few. That looks to me as though Rod backed the manager long term even if he handled the situation badly in the short term.

Did he tell JC he was meeting them?

[MB62]

Right, just to clear things up, although I mentioned Rob Jones, it was not a particular dash at the man. If things mentioned were wrong, then apologies to all offended, i'll use the excuse that memory fades with auld age :greengrin

Main point of this thread was to highlight the difference, IN MY OPINION, in the fitness levels of so called professional football football players to the guys who put on 5 hours or more of incredible tennis at breakneck speed.
I know some have said you can't compare football players with tennis players, I disagree. I think more than anything it is down to desire. I remember when Gary Caldwell left us to go to the dodgers, he said he was going T-Total as he had moved to a bigger club and they wouldn't accept the same drink culture that was there at ER. (NOT VERBATUM, just my memory of it).
Point is, IN MY OPINION, this meant that he was totally unprofessional whilst at Hibs and it was a slap in the face to us, the fans, and should have been an embarrasment to the board and manager for allowing this to happen. (has it got any better since?)

Managers and players complain about 90 minutes on a Sunday then being asked to play another 90 minutes two or three days later, yet there was Djokovic playing about 11 hours at incredible pace within two or three days.

[Green&White]

Must say an overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 looks pretty decent

would be interesting to see this stat against the managers after him. mixu, yogi, CC coz i bet you a pound to a pinch of salt that collins record pish's all over theirs.

statos take it away....:aok:

[Killiehibbie]

Playing a 5 set 5 hour (or nearly 6 hours as was the case with Djokovic - Nadal) tennis match would be far more physically draining than playing 90 minutes of football especially when you consider the heat and humidity alot of the tennis matches are played in aswell.
Add in the fact that the tennis player is doing all his work on his own.

[Sir David Gray]

would be interesting to see this stat against the managers after him. mixu, yogi, CC coz i bet you a pound to a pinch of salt that collins record pish's all over theirs.

statos take it away....:aok:

COLLINS

P-54
W-23
D-15
L-16

Win percentage-42.6%

PAATELAINEN

P-62
W-19
D-18
L-25

Win percentage-30.6%

HUGHES

P-54
W-19
D-12
L-23

Win percentage-35.2%

CALDERWOOD

P-49
W-12
D-11
L-26

Win percentage-24.5%

[21.05.2016]

100% spot on, I have lost a load of respect for football players over the last 6 or 7 years. To me they have went from geniuses to cheating, moaning, overpaid wimps who would last 5 minutes in most other sports.

:agree: they are far too pampered. How dare they be asked to play 2 games a week!:rolleyes:

John Collins was very unfairly treated by the board IMO. The players went running and crying to Rod for being asked to work hard, thats the bottom line. They embarrassed the club and its supporters.

[Green&White]

COLLINS

P-54
W-23
D-15
L-16

Win percentage-42.6%

PAATELAINEN

P-62
W-19
D-18
L-25

Win percentage-30.6%

HUGHES

P-54
W-19
D-12
L-23

Win percentage-35.2%

CALDERWOOD

P-49
W-12
D-11
L-26

Win percentage-24.5%

cheers ma man....

and now your honor.... i rest my case. :cb

seriously tho we will never know but we have been going only one way since collins left.

[sesoim]

Same problem La Guen had at Rangers, trying to knock a Scottish football team into a proper professional sports outfit goes completely against the interest of the players who like a half day of work, loads of time off, time for a bit of golf and time to head out and be the big man about town and have a few bevvies with your adoring fans and assorted lackies...we missed our chance to push Hibs away from some of the ingrained problems and attitudes that are still lurking around the club and are probably quite likely one of the reasons we have failed to progress..


Le Guen wasn't working at Rangers, full stop. Old Walter came in and got them working again, and showed that good management is about alot more than getting players fit.

Collins might have had the right principles, but lets face it, the rot started when he took over and proceeded to fall out with half our squad and then made a bunch of shocking signings. We were hurtling down the table under him and Tommy Craig.

I think Collins COULD have been a decent manager, but we shouldn't have went near him until he had at least 4 or 5 years experience elsewhere (and gotten a few mistakes out his system as well).

[Andy74]

would be interesting to see this stat against the managers after him. mixu, yogi, CC coz i bet you a pound to a pinch of salt that collins record pish's all over theirs.

statos take it away....:aok:

He did have the advantage of taking over Mowbray's squad. When he had to work with lesser players and he made his own signings that rate would have gone down a fair bit I'd suggest.

[sesoim]

cheers ma man....

and now your honor.... i rest my case. :cb

seriously tho we will never know but we have been going only one way since collins left.


We were only going one way while Collins was here - we were on a bad run when he walked out. He expected big money to sign players, which he was never going to get, and probably would have wasted anyway.

Almost every other SPL manager manages to find bargains and make them into better players, but unfortunately none of our managers since Mowbray has been successful in doing that, and that's one of the main reasons we are struggling so badly now.

[basehibby]

I totally agree with the sentiments of your post although I'm still of the opinion that as Captain, Big Rab was uncomfortable in the role he had to play in that very sad and embarrassing day for the Club.

I'm inclined to agree that he was acting in his capacity as captain - but even so I believe he made a massive mistake and let us down in the process - as captain he should have told his moaning teammates in no uncertain terms to put up and shut up at least until our interest in the Scottish Cup was concluded - by allowing them to upset the applecart he participated in the derailment of the team's progress and contributed to our exit from that tournament IMO.

Sad but true that all the participants in that meeting undermined their hero status as League Cup winners with their myopic and selfish dummy spitting antics.

[tamig]

Over 90 minutes I believe a footballer generally covers an average of about 8-9km.

For a five set tennis match the distance is about 6-7km.

Football probably has less upper body movement and less explosive movement but footballers are on the move almost continuously, have a lot more physical contact which itself is tiring and provides you with a few more physical aches and pains quite apart from the actual exertion.

Tennis players have a longer time period to last for of course but there is a regular opportunity to rest and rehydrate.

And the ball is only in play for about half the game in football. Tennis players cover the area you've quoted over a much smaller surface - so they are moving even more than footballers. I think you're being a bit generous towards football players here.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What?

:greengrin

Predictive text on the i-Moan it's crop ;)

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What?

:greengrin

E ingles no e minha lingua primeira. But that's easy for me to say )

[Joe Baker II]

Think they can be compared as tennis players are constantly sprinting around in short spells. If you take into account the amount of time the ball is up the park or out of play in football due to throw ins/injuries/fouls etc footballers get a break as well. In addition successful tennis players play matches every couple of days in addition to training. Would love to compare a footballer to a tennis player on Sporting Superstars nowadays. Doubt there was that much of difference years ago.

But as well as breaks ball not in play in tennis during the games quite a lot too, as Andy points out I find it hard to believe (other than the most successful players) that they can be held up as an example to footballers. And also a lot of mens tournaments are only 3 sets and can actually, even with breaks, last less time than a football game.

[mrdependable]

for those who doubt that tennis players such as Andy Murray are fitter than Hibs players
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-conversation/65530-andy-murray-training-diet-article.html
(googled, not my usual reading material!)

[Twa Cairpets]

There is some truth in that, the way some of them go down you would think there were snippers on the roofs.

Why? Are they feared of hairdressers wielding their implements on top of buildings?