Are You Embarrassed at the state of Hibs ?

[Sammy7nil]

For what every reason we have lost out on two players to St Mirren and St Johnstone.

It may be the length of contract offered or our refusal to pay the player what they think they are worth, who konws? I am sure we were not simply out bid due to financial problems it is more likely we did not agree on the players agent valuation. It would appear they may have been offered similar deals by the Saints and for what ever reason Snubbed Hibs.

Before I go further I totally agree neither player was worth paying over the odds for.

PatFenlon is on record saying he is struggling to tepmpt players to Hibs. So our new stand and training centre are not the attractions the Chairman hoped they would be.

We are again being linked with Div 1 players and we all know how the last few turned out? We have loan signings we cannot count on keeping, if they are a success we know who will come calling.

Fightting relegation for the 2nd year in row and having our worst run of results at ER since almost anyone is old enough to recall.

We DESPERATELY need a flagship signing to rally the fans and show the SPL we are a club with ambition. Not looking for a panic buy just a statemant that will unite the fans and the club.

If the Board don't act soon we could be looking at under 4000 season tickets next year even if we do survive this season.

[Scouse Hibee]

Embarrassed!!! No

[bighairyfaeleith]

never



p.s. haven't read your post, title is enough for me.

[Cropley10]

Together we are stronger.

[The_Todd]

Concerned is the correct word. Concerned.

[Sammy7nil]

never



p.s. haven't read your post, title is enough for me.

Pity you would have seen I never said I was !

I just asked a question and knew the title would get some interest

[Sammy7nil]

Concerned is the correct word. Concerned.

That is a better word but would not generate the same interest :wink::wink::wink:

[Hibbyradge]

I haven't been out of the house for weeks, mate.

Too much of a ridder.

By the way, constructing controversial thread titles to attract attention is known in there parts as trolling! :wink:

Haven't heard from Rich yet, btw.

[One Day Soon]

Embarrassed to be a Hibee? No.

Embarrassed by the state of the club? Yes. it's humiliating.

In plain terms it is abject failure that a club of our resources, location and following should have performed so appallingly in recent years. There has unquestionably been a collective and individual failure of judgement, leadership and achievement in almost every field of activity apart from the development of the physical infrastructure.

Bad managerial appointments, loss of nerve in sacking managers early, poor signings, loss of collective spirit, derailing of the youth conveyor belt and a complete and utter disintegration of our playing style, performance and will to win.

The rich inheritance that should have followed and been nurtured from the Sauzee side onwards has - in footballing terms- been pi55ed away.

[DAVE1875]

At the state of the club? Best way to describe how I feel is worried

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Whether we are embarrassed or not is not really the point is it?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Concerned is the correct word. Concerned.

:agree::agree::agree:

[HibbyAndy]

Embarrassed no.


Growingly concerned in what direction Hibs are heading in?,,,You better believe it.

[EK_Hibs]

Very concerned...
Apathetic...& yes a little embarrassed too I'm sorry to say.

Still, 1 or 2 positive results/performances and everyone's mood changes.

[Aldo]

Embarrassed to be a Hibee? No.

Embarrassed by the state of the club? Yes. it's humiliating.

In plain terms it is abject failure that a club of our resources, location and following should have performed so appallingly in recent years. There has unquestionably been a collective and individual failure of judgement, leadership and achievement in almost every field of activity apart from the development of the physical infrastructure.

Bad managerial appointments, loss of nerve in sacking managers early, poor signings, loss of collective spirit, derailing of the youth conveyor belt and a complete and utter disintegration of our playing style, performance and will to win.

The rich inheritance that should have followed and been nurtured from the Sauzee side onwards has - in footballing terms- been pi55ed away.

ODS

I am going to agree to disagree with you on this. I am worried at the state of the club. It don't feel humiliated.

If I was a Yam I would felled that way.

Going to be positive and say the only way is up. I trust PF and given the time and backing he will get us moving in right direction.

[Sammy7nil]

I haven't been out of the house for weeks, mate.

Too much of a ridder.

By the way, constructing controversial thread titles to attract attention is known in there parts as trolling! :wink:

Haven't heard from Rich yet, btw.

Ricky has been busy producing his magazine but will be in touch early next week.

P.S. How very dare I am not a Troll just an attention seeker :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

Embarrassed no.


Growingly concerned in what direction Hibs are heading in?,,,You better believe it.

sums it up for me......:top marks

[Sammy7nil]

ODS

I am going to agree to disagree with you on this. I am worried at the state of the club. It don't feel humiliated.

If I was a Yam I would felled that way.

Going to be positive and say the only way is up. I trust PF and given the time and backing he will get us moving in right direction.

I never asked that :greengrin humiliated takes it to a whole new level. :greengrin

[Captain Trips]

The only folk who should be embarressed work in the board room, a disgrace and a farce this p1sh for 2 seasons.

[Andy74]

For what every reason we have lost out on two players to St Mirren and St Johnstone.

It may be the length of contract offered or our refusal to pay the player what they think they are worth, who konws? I am sure we were not simply out bid due to financial problems it is more likely we did not agree on the players agent valuation. It would appear they may have been offered similar deals by the Saints and for what ever reason Snubbed Hibs.

Before I go further I totally agree neither player was worth paying over the odds for.

PatFenlon is on record saying he is struggling to tepmpt players to Hibs. So our new stand and training centre are not the attractions the Chairman hoped they would be.

We are again being linked with Div 1 players and we all know how the last few turned out? We have loan signings we cannot count on keeping, if they are a success we know who will come calling.

Fightting relegation for the 2nd year in row and having our worst run of results at ER since almost anyone is old enough to recall.

We DESPERATELY need a flagship signing to rally the fans and show the SPL we are a club with ambition. Not looking for a panic buy just a statemant that will unite the fans and the club.

If the Board don't act soon we could be looking at under 4000 season tickets next year even if we do survive this season.
Who have we lost to St Johnstone?

[Sammy7nil]

Who have we lost to St Johnstone?

Cillian Sheridan

[Mikey]

Together we are stronger.

It's true though, isn't it.

It's not the first time you've taken the piss out of it today, but it's true.


And to answer the OP, no. But I am embarrassed by some of the fans.

[Sammy7nil]

It's true though, isn't it.

It's not the first time you've taken the piss out of it today, but it's true.


And to answer the OP, no. But I am embarrassed by some of the fans.


I would expect nothing less Mikey :greengrin

[andy1875]

I remember having a discussion with my jambo mate at work a year or so back in regard to Hearts debt v our balance sheet. He asked me basically would I not rather have a bit debt and at least try and have a go at the Scottish and SPL? I obviously had my green tinted glasses on and gave it the big un, no no no were investing in the future to ensure were here for another 135 years etc etc.

Now I'm not saying I'd swap our position for where the Hearts are BUT at least they've had a go at challenging the Old Firm and won 2 Scottish Cup wins in 13 years. That's on top of beating us home and away for every season for what? 25 years? They've maybe got a bigger debt than us but they've had ten times the amount to cheer about more than us.

The last few months I have been beginning to wonder just if I would swap our current situations. The quicker we start running Hibernian like a football club that wants to actually compete rather than just exist the better.

For the record, I am peed of about Goodwin so hopefully this peed of feeling is only temporary! :rolleyes:

[Bobby's Cinema]

Who have we lost to St Johnstone?


Cillian Sheridan

:rolleyes: No this again

[Sammy7nil]

:rolleyes: No this again

Eh !

simple question which was answered whats the problem ?
No one has thrown a wobbler

[Baldy Foghorn]

It's true though, isn't it.

It's not the first time you've taken the piss out of it today, but it's true.


And to answer the OP, no. But I am embarrassed by some of the fans.

Catch 22, the club needs fans for revenue, however is the product worth paying to watch?

Something needs to give to find middle ground....It's a results based industry, and our results have been poor for two Seasons....The only way fans will come back is to have a winning team worthy of watching.....

[stubru59]

Cillian Sheridan

And he's proved to be a diamond amongst pebbles right enough.

[tamig]

Eh !

simple question which was answered whats the problem ?
No one has thrown a wobbler

Its been mentioned many times. Nowt to do with money. At the time, Hibs wanted him on a season long loan. His club were only willing to let him go til January. St J were fine with that. We weren't.

Hibs were not outbid by St J and we never "lost" him to anyone.

[Sergy Pie]

Wouldn't say I was embarrassed. Savagely disappointed and completely numb for a worryingly length of time may just start to scratch the surface.

[Sammy7nil]

Its been mentioned many times. Nowt to do with money. At the time, Hibs wanted him on a season long loan. His club were only willing to let him go til January. St J were fine with that. We weren't.

Hibs were not outbid by St J and we never "lost" him to anyone.

And that is what I said.

It was still a player we were very interested in and failed to land. He ended up at saints despite the offer we made. I agree he was not worth further interest or making a bid for but we still lost out.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Eh !

simple question which was answered whats the problem ?
No one has thrown a wobbler
Andy was asking you who it was even though he knew you were on about Sheridan, he was just implying that we never missed out on him as such. Thats all I meant by that. It was a pop at him! I know I've not thrown a wobbler it's you I'm worried about :greengrin

[Sammy7nil]

I am a well known wobbler :greengrin

[tamig]

And that is what I said.

It was still a player we were very interested in and failed to land. He ended up at saints despite the offer we made. I agree he was not worth further interest or making a bid for but we still lost out.
What did you say? You said we lost out on him to St J. We didn't want him on the terms his club were offering - so we backed out the deal. We didn't lose him. We walked away.

[Fantic]

For what every reason we have lost out on two players to St Mirren and St Johnstone.

It may be the length of contract offered or our refusal to pay the player what they think they are worth, who konws? I am sure we were not simply out bid due to financial problems it is more likely we did not agree on the players agent valuation. It would appear they may have been offered similar deals by the Saints and for what ever reason Snubbed Hibs.

Before I go further I totally agree neither player was worth paying over the odds for.

PatFenlon is on record saying he is struggling to tepmpt players to Hibs. So our new stand and training centre are not the attractions the Chairman hoped they would be.

We are again being linked with Div 1 players and we all know how the last few turned out? We have loan signings we cannot count on keeping, if they are a success we know who will come calling.

Fightting relegation for the 2nd year in row and having our worst run of results at ER since almost anyone is old enough to recall.

We DESPERATELY need a flagship signing to rally the fans and show the SPL we are a club with ambition. Not looking for a panic buy just a statemant that will unite the fans and the club.

If the Board don't act soon we could be looking at under 4000 season tickets next year even if we do survive this season.

Don't think we need a flagship signing at all. Decent players who play good football and play for the jersey would do.

[Sammy7nil]

Don't think we need a flagship signing at all. Decent players who play good football and play for the jersey would do.

That would be a good start but it won't quickly repair the damage in terms of season ticket sales.
We need a real boost a siging that will quickly and radically change the mood of the club and bring fans back.

[down-the-slope]

Not as much as I am by the reaction to current situation by a sizable minority of our supporters :rolleyes:

[Alfred E Newman]

Its been mentioned many times. Nowt to do with money. At the time, Hibs wanted him on a season long loan. His club were only willing to let him go til January. St J were fine with that. We weren't.Hibs were not outbid by St J and we never "lost" him to anyone.

He is still there :dunno:

[HFC07]

I'm not embarrassed by Hibs, but I am concerned about the gray cloud hanging over our club. Every time you look at the paper we have a player either on a ban/facing one or up in court.

Why would anybody want to come to Hibs right now.

[Alfred E Newman]

I'm not embarrassed by Hibs, but I am concerned about the gray cloud hanging over our club. Every time you look at the paper we have a player either on a ban/facing one or up in court.

Why would anybody want to come to Hibs right now.

You are probably right in what you say. It is dreadful the way the club has been allowed to slide into the situation we are in. As supporters we have nothing to be embarrassed about but there are those at the club both on and off the park who should be.

[Andy74]

Andy was asking you who it was even though he knew you were on about Sheridan, he was just implying that we never missed out on him as such. Thats all I meant by that. It was a pop at him! I know I've not thrown a wobbler it's you I'm worried about :greengrin

I didn't know actually. Sheridan was some time ago now and the way this was written made me think I'd missed something earlier.

Now that it's mentioned it's probably worth repeating that CC pulled out of that deal. And today a player stayed with his own club.

What about the players we have signed so far. I presume this means some other teams lost out on them. Such as Aberdeen and Ipswich who wanted Doyle. St Johnstone and Aberdeen who wanted Griffiths and Dunfermline and others who wanted McPake.

[Dinkydoo]

Embarrassed?

Nope, I wore my white away "Riordan 01" top today at college and still have it on now.

A little worried, but that's about it.

[HibbyAndy]

I didn't know actually. Sheridan was some time ago now and the way this was written made me think I'd missed something earlier.

Now that it's mentioned it's probably worth repeating that CC pulled out of that deal. And today a player stayed with his own club.

What about the players we have signed so far. I presume this means some other teams lost out on them. Such as Aberdeen and Ipswich who wanted Doyle. St Johnstone and Aberdeen who wanted Griffiths and Dunfermline and others who wanted McPake.




Any links :dunno:

[Lofarl]

Not embarrassed. Even if the worst comes to the worst and Hibs are relegated. I know for a fact that next year and for years to come, there will be a Hibernian FC. Fans of a few other teams in Scotland might not be able to say that. Yes our poor form is a great concern, but in the grand scale of life its irrelevant outside full time. Also to put a more positive spin on things, we are 3 wins away from the top 6.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I didn't know actually. Sheridan was some time ago now and the way this was written made me think I'd missed something earlier.

Now that it's mentioned it's probably worth repeating that CC pulled out of that deal. And today a player stayed with his own club.

What about the players we have signed so far. I presume this means some other teams lost out on them. Such as Aberdeen and Ipswich who wanted Doyle. St Johnstone and Aberdeen who wanted Griffiths and Dunfermline and others who wanted McPake.
Oh. Fair enough. Just assumed you were asking even though you knew, to reinforce that Hibs never missed out on Sheridan, which I agree with by the way.

[GreenPJ]

And he's proved to be a diamond amongst pebbles right enough.

:agree: Can you imagine if we had gone above and beyond to better St Johnstone on whatever terms we had to offer to get him and then he ended up as a sub and a bit part player as he has at St J. As for Goodwin, I have no doubt he would have been a positive signing and brought the same sort of enthusiasm the likes of Scott brought last year at this stage.

[Sammy7nil]

Not embarrassed. Even if the worst comes to the worst and Hibs are relegated. I know for a fact that next year and for years to come, there will be a Hibernian FC. Fans of a few other teams in Scotland might not be able to say that. Yes our poor form is a great concern, but in the grand scale of life its irrelevant outside full time. Also to put a more positive spin on things, we are 3 wins away from the top 6.

There will be a Hibs in the next 50 years but how many fans will care ?
The club is dying a slow painful death and all we are standing by and watching.
I have always been told Hibs are building for the future well I am now 50 and I am still waiting I think I will be long dead before Hibs deliver on this plan for the future.

For a club of our size and catchment area out overall record is dire and getting worse.

[Bishop Hibee]

There will be a Hibs in the next 50 years but how many fans will care ?
The club is dying a slow painful death and all we are standing by and watching.
I have always been told Hibs are building for the future well I am now 50 and I am still waiting I think I will be long dead before Hibs deliver on this plan for the future.

For a club of our size and catchment area out overall record is dire and getting worse.

Behave. Hibs will NEVER die. We've had our ups and downs through the years as every club bar the OF have. This is a bad 'down' but we will bounce back although that doesn't lessen the pain all real Hibees feel at the moment.

I'm not standing by and watching. I have an ST and was at the game before Calderclown was sacked howling for him to go along with thousands of others.. It worked. Hardly standing by.

[Sammy7nil]

Behave. Hibs will NEVER die. We've had our ups and downs through the years as every club bar the OF have. This is a bad 'down' but we will bounce back although that doesn't lessen the pain all real Hibees feel at the moment.

I'm not standing by and watching. I have an ST and was at the game before Calderclown was sacked howling for him to go along with thousands of others.. It worked. Hardly standing by.

Maybe saying it was dying was the wrong choice of words it is however certainly very very ill.
I did say how many will care?
We have gone from alleged 10800 season tickets to under 6000.
This number is likely to reduce again next season, you are still going many are choosing not to go and therefore simply watching this very ill patient.

[Hibbyradge]

I am a well known wobbler :greengrin

This.

[Spike Mandela]

Disillusioned is the word I would use to describe how I feel about Hibs at the moment.

[Hibbyradge]

There will be a Hibs in the next 50 years but how many fans will care ?
The club is dying a slow painful death and all we are standing by and watching.
I have always been told Hibs are building for the future well I am now 50 and I am still waiting I think I will be long dead before Hibs deliver on this plan for the future.

For a club of our size and catchment area out overall record is dire and getting worse.

If we'll still be here in 50 nyears, we're no really dying.

But you do have a point. I'll be way past caring about Hibs in 50 years. Probably. :wink:

[Sammy7nil]

If we'll still be here in 50 nyears, we're no really dying.

But you do have a point. I'll be way past caring about Hibs in 50 years. Probably. :wink:

You will still be here your Hcp might be a tad higher. :greengrin

[PatHead]

I can think of a number of adjectives to describe how I feel about Hibs just now. Embarrassed by our league position, standing in the Scottish game-yes. Frustrated and angry by everything else - probably

[IWasThere2016]

I think the embarrassment should be confined to the Boardroom.

I'm worried about the poor leadership/direction/vision, poor results, poor football and another transfer window passing without weaknesses in the team being addressed.

On the plus side Dens and Starks Park are convenient, and hopefully Cowden and Arbroath get promoted also.

[silverhibee]

I'm not embarrassed by Hibs, but I am concerned about the gray cloud hanging over our club. Every time you look at the paper we have a player either on a ban/facing one or up in court.

Why would anybody want to come to Hibs right now.


Now where have i heard that before in the last few weeks. Blackpoolhibs. :greengrin

[silverhibee]

Embarrassed?

Nope, I wore my white away "Riordan 01" top today at college and still have it on now.

A little worried, but that's about it.



Collecters top in years to come, glad mine is signed by the man himself. :greengrin

[yekimevol]

embarrassed no ... disgusted yes. how can we be in this situation, we all know the facts we are apparently spending the fourth highest wages on players but somehow there getting spent on utter dross. i'm praying to the angels high above that pat fenlon is a man worthy of this job as the last 2 have not been.

[Sodje_18]

And he's proved to be a diamond amongst pebbles right enough.
That's hardly the point though, I think the OP means we shouldn't be losing out on players to clubs who are less than half the size of ours.

[zero-seven]

very very concerned..we have a product on offer that makes your eyes bleed...and currently If ,a big if we go down, i would struggle to see how we would get back up with the standard of player and football at hand.

We need a good back bone of a team and ample cover for all positions...we also need a crapload of confidence..and a board that cares about the team, its predicament and is aware of what the fans need and to do something about it...thats all

[edinburghhibee]

:duck:Tin hat on here but here goes....

I just got a half season ticket after playing sat football most of my life so was only attending the midweek or sunday kickoffs and to be honest I think in the last few weeks we have slowly... very slowly been getting better. Pat's first game at M'well we were doing alright until it got cancelled, Dunf (Home), Hearts , inverness and Dundee Utd were very poor yes but since then we have won a cup game which was a potential banana skin, won away with a great never die performance at Dunf and we scored two against a St Johnstone team doing very well this season.

I fully believe we have the players who can score goals against teams in this league however as everyone knows we are so poor in central defence but if we can get another centre half in along with McPake I think we will start climbing the league.

I think we'll be alright this season then build for next season.

:flag::pfgwa:flag:

[Lucius Apuleius]

That's hardly the point though, I think the OP means we shouldn't be losing out on players to clubs who are less than half the size of ours.

To me that is the whole point. He wanted more money from us than we were prepared to pay. CC was proven correct if he walked away from the deal. Sheridan has not done a lot at all. He would have been the next Nish had he come to ER. Having said that, that might have saved Sparky getting the abuse eh?:wink:

[Dinkydoo]

Collecters top in years to come, glad mine is signed by the man himself. :greengrin

Lucky you, the only Hibs signature I have is John O'Neil's and a very, very, very faded Tam McManus one, both on this top.

http://img.tapatalk.com/568f3be6-49cb-2ed4.jpg

[tamig]

He is still there :dunno:

He went back to Sofia and they let him return. Initial deal was for half a season.

[soupy]

Lucky you, the only Hibs signature I have is John O'Neil's and a very, very, very faded Tam McManus one, both on this top.

http://img.tapatalk.com/568f3be6-49cb-2ed4.jpg

Your right they are faded, ye cany even see them :-)

[Steve20]

It's true though, isn't it.

It's not the first time you've taken the piss out of it today, but it's true.


And to answer the OP, no. But I am embarrassed by some of the fans.

You can't be serious. The fans who pay money to go and watch these impostors put in pathetic performances almost every week?

The players, who have took part in this farce of a season, are the ones who should be embarrassed.

[smurf]

I'm embarrassed by fans that are happy to accept our mediocrity.

[Speedway]

So by Simply's logic, if the loanees do well they'll go. Surely if the manager does well he'll go and if the flagship signing does well, we'll sell the flag. So on that basis we should make sure no one does well and then we won't lose them if they're any good.

I am not embarrassed by Hibs. I am very bored of the ongoing monotony, I am annoyed that we're going backwards at a rate of knots in crowds, income and above all results and I am of the opinion that certain of our number are happier when we fail and don't deserve their team to do well. We have many fans but few supporters

On here at least and certainly arond where I sit, the fans are detractors and not supporters. They sit or stand in silence waiting to be pissed off by something we do and spend the rest of the game whinging about it.

I include all managerial eras of Hibs in the summation from at least Auld onwards.

[Andy74]

I'm embarrassed by fans that are happy to accept our mediocrity.

I don't see many people accepting it, we just have different ideas about who should be held responsible and how long we keep banging on about it.

We are where we are and we need to support the people who are there to get us out of it and back to some better times.

Continually looking for the angle to criticise Hibs is eating away at us just as much as the poor managerial and player performances.

In this window we have signed a highly rated striker, got another sought after one from the EPL on a longer loan deal when his team wanted to sell him. Got a highly rated right back from an EPL team on loan, a centre half in the mould of what we are after from a Championship team, a former England Under 21 player from an EPL team and the promise of another couple to come.

But what do we focus on? A player playing for a team already who has decided to stay there and some player that we pulled out of deal six months ago. It's pathetic.

[heretoday]

Embarrassed? No - it's swings and roundabouts. When I started watching Hibs back in 1963 they were second bottom of an 18 team league.

It's only a matter of time before we are tanning the Hearts again as it should be.

I'm embarrassed at some of the navel-gazing that goes on here!

[RIP]

I am embarassed but not surprised at the reluctance of fellow supporters to look beyond the current first team coach and players for the reasons for our situation. Bottom line is - why would a player sign for a relegation-threatened club. It could be a career ending move.

As a club we had the right framework - good stadium, great training centre, core base, fantastic history. However at the top we simply don't have the right structure, skills, vision, culture or performance in the Football Operation.

At the end of the day they've not delivered the core product - fit players playing fast exciting football. They have lost the Hibs brand, the essence of what makes us proud to be a Hibby. Instead they delivered a vanilla product, without substance, without excitement, without passion.

Maybe belatedly they realised this under Calderwood - hence the Pat Fenlon appointment. Recruitment of Hibby's in the dressing room has probably been deliberate. We already see more passion, more workrate, a glimmer of greater fitness. Maybe the first division will be good for us - giving us time to rebuild and get back winning regularly. Make it a family club again - a club we can all identify with.

GGTTH

[Andy74]

I am embarassed but not surprised at the reluctance of fellow supporters to look beyond the current first team coach and players for the reasons for our situation. Bottom line is - why would a player sign for a relegation-threatened club. It could be a career ending move.

As a club we had the right framework - good stadium, great training centre, core base, fantastic history. However at the top we simply don't have the right structure, skills, vision, culture or performance in the Football Operation.

At the end of the day they've not delivered the core product - fit players playing fast exciting football. They have lost the Hibs brand, the essence of what makes us proud to be a Hibby. Instead they delivered a vanilla product, without substance, without excitement, without passion.

Maybe belatedly they realised this under Calderwood - hence the Pat Fenlon appointment. Recruitment of Hibby's in the dressing room has probably been deliberate. We already see more passion, more workrate, a glimmer of greater fitness. Maybe the first division will be good for us - giving us time to rebuild and get back winning regularly. Make it a family club again - a club we can all identify with.

GGTTH

Or just maybe this manager, who is the one responsible for the players and the football, might just pick better ones and manage them better than the last one?

[Captain Trips]

We are 2nd bottom due IMO to Rod "teflon" Petrie.

[RIP]

Or just maybe this manager, who is the one responsible for the players and the football, might just pick better ones and manage them better than the last one?

Thanks for your feedback Andy. You would like us to belive it's that simple as it conveniently deflects our attention away from those who are actualy responsible for delivering a healthy football club.

Why don't you meet up with JC, Mixu, Yogi and CC and ask them why they couldn't deliver to that straightforward brief? How many more first-team coaches must we go through before anyone looks beyong this years 'incumbent' for accountability?

[Andy74]

Thanks for your feedback Andy. You would like us to belive it's that simple as it conveniently deflects our attention away from those who are actualy responsible for delivering a healthy football club.

Why don't you meet up with JC, Mixu, Yogi and CC and ask them why they couldn't deliver to that straightforward brief? How many more first-team coaches must we go through before anyone looks beyong this years 'incumbent' for accountability?

If the budget wasn't delivered you'd be right, Or maybe a top training facility for them to work with.

All the managers you mentioned there were all slated on here for having several shortcomings which ultimatley led to them walking or getting the boot.

Seems quite clear that the conclusion from here was that they couldn't meet their brief due to ther own incompetency.

When talking about footballing failure, if you can look at the accounts and see that the budget was delivered then how much more involed in what happens in sellecting players, training them and setting them out, do you think the board should be?

[Hibrandenburg]

Embarrassed? Nah! Embarrassing is what's going on over Gorgie way. I'm not even concerned as a few on here seem to be. Been here in this situation too often to be concerned and what's happening is all part and parcel of being a Hibby.
Utterly disappointed is probably closest to what I'm feeling but as in the past the good times will follow the bad.

Hibs will be here long after I'm gone, however I'm not too sure about our smelly neighbours and that knowledge gives me a warm glow inside. GGTTH

[Captain Trips]

Worse than any individual signing I have ever seen, worse than any actual appointment of a manager I have seen, was the decision to not take this total dream of a get out that I could not believe at time what a chance to move forward.

Well done Rod (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/hibs_reject_163_300k_offer_for_manager_colin_calde rwood_1_1714544)

I was looking for CC to get sack at this juncture I think with a lot of others as it appeared he was offering nothing, now Petrie should have been on the brink in first instance for making another bad choice but he choose to reject this and thought wrongly he was the man for a 2nd time, that decision has cost firstly money we lost the compo and probably lost some money sacking him so the great accountant is off to a flyer in costing us 300k off the bat. If he had already thought of PF as a manager back then he could have got him in for pre season and that might have cost us some of the compo but was a fresh start would have been great.

We now have a manager with one hand tied behind back as we were left in a mess and loans are all we can really manage to help us out, loans that if Petrie had his eye on ball we might not need to be wasting money on if he did his job correctly.

Would we be 2nd bottom if PF had started season we cannot truly say my opinion is no we would be better off I think he is better than CC maybe not 4th but doing ok is where I think we might be with a few more permanent signings.

The only person who should be embarressed is Petrie, he has cost this club with his errors what has gone before cannot allow for such incompetance and it was, gross incompetance. I do not care if he is paid or not he should have got sacked right after CC and I trust him not, even if things turn round that he will not screw up again. It is not CCs fault we are here it is Rod Petrie's. How good would 300k been? even if poetic license 150k would have done.

It was proven 100% he made an error.

[Andy74]

Worse than any individual signing I have ever seen, worse than any actual appointment of a manager I have seen, was the decision to not take this total dream of a get out that I could not believe at time what a chance to move forward.

Well done Rod (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/hibs_reject_163_300k_offer_for_manager_colin_calde rwood_1_1714544)

I was looking for CC to get sack at this juncture I think with a lot of others as it appeared he was offering nothing, now Petrie should have been on the brink in first instance for making another bad choice but he choose to reject this and thought wrongly he was the man for a 2nd time, that decision has cost firstly money we lost the compo and probably lost some money sacking him so the great accountant is off to a flyer in costing us 300k off the bat. If he had already thought of PF as a manager back then he could have got him in for pre season and that might have cost us some of the compo but was a fresh start would have been great.

We now have a manager with one hand tied behind back as we were left in a mess and loans are all we can really manage to help us out, loans that if Petrie had his eye on ball we might not need to be wasting money on if he did his job correctly.

Would we be 2nd bottom if PF had started season we cannot truly say my opinion is no we would be better off I think he is better than CC maybe not 4th but doing ok is where I think we might be with a few more permanent signings.

The only person who should be embarressed is Petrie, he has cost this club with his errors what has gone before cannot allow for such incompetance and it was, gross incompetance. I do not care if he is paid or not he should have got sacked right after CC and I trust him not, even if things turn round that he will not screw up again. It is not CCs fault we are here it is Rod Petrie's. How good would 300k been? even if poetic license 150k would have done.

It was proven 100% he made an error.

That I do agree with 100%

[Captain Trips]

That I do agree with 100%

I will be honest Andy as I always am I would not have put in CC in first place but lets say I was in charge and I did. I would probably have sacked him before we even had an offer for him so I may have cost us money but we would never have known about it, I would put my hands up admit he was a wrong un and gave my next appointment a fresh season which for me was key in this.

[basehibby]

For what every reason we have lost out on two players to St Mirren and St Johnstone.

It may be the length of contract offered or our refusal to pay the player what they think they are worth, who konws? I am sure we were not simply out bid due to financial problems it is more likely we did not agree on the players agent valuation. It would appear they may have been offered similar deals by the Saints and for what ever reason Snubbed Hibs.

Before I go further I totally agree neither player was worth paying over the odds for.

PatFenlon is on record saying he is struggling to tepmpt players to Hibs. So our new stand and training centre are not the attractions the Chairman hoped they would be.

We are again being linked with Div 1 players and we all know how the last few turned out? We have loan signings we cannot count on keeping, if they are a success we know who will come calling.

Fightting relegation for the 2nd year in row and having our worst run of results at ER since almost anyone is old enough to recall.

We DESPERATELY need a flagship signing to rally the fans and show the SPL we are a club with ambition. Not looking for a panic buy just a statemant that will unite the fans and the club.

If the Board don't act soon we could be looking at under 4000 season tickets next year even if we do survive this season.

I am embarassed at the support I have expressed for our highly paid board of directors - they are showing with increasing clarity that they are worthy neither of my support or their bumper pay packets.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

100%.

Plus the fact we cant beat St Midden to a player is just galling.

[Gatecrasher]

Embarrassed - no?
Angry - Yes
This has been going on for far too long

[RIP]

If the budget wasn't delivered you'd be right, Or maybe a top training facility for them to work with.

All the managers you mentioned there were all slated on here for having several shortcomings which ultimatley led to them walking or getting the boot.

Seems quite clear that the conclusion from here was that they couldn't meet their brief due to ther own incompetency.

When talking about footballing failure, if you can look at the accounts and see that the budget was delivered then how much more involed in what happens in sellecting players, training them and setting them out, do you think the board should be?

It depends what we want from a board I guess. If you only want non-football administrators then they tick the box. Fife is a straight-talking guy who in the short time he's been at the club has improved at lot of our commercials, marketing, ticketing and has rightly been rewarded with the CEO post. Scott was the CEO so he's now managing the football operation at East Mains. Any time I've met or heard him he seems bright, personable, very hardworking and astute. Whether he can deliver a healthy football operation - he's had 18months of Calderwood and Fenlon to work with so maybe it's hard to judge.

If his role is purely administration then he's no doubt a good guy for the job. However a lot of clubs have a director with considerable football experience running their football operation - one who brings a more lasting strategy to the most important aspect of our business - the fitba. This encompasses:-

Squad building and signing strategy
Youth development plans
Fitness and performance programmes / standards
Diet, lifestyle, behaviour management and on-field discipline
Recruitment & training of coaches and their performance management
Results, analysis, reviews and planning
Scouting systems


This programme may be influenced as the first-team coach changes but not to the point where it hands over 100% of the responsibility to someone who, with the best will in the world, is merely passing through. We need to set our own standards as a football club and ensure that any new manager or player can meet these standards. So far, this is where I am most disappointed.

[PatHead]

It depends what we want from a board I guess. If you only want non-football administrators then they tick the box. Fife is a straight-talking guy who in the short time he's been at the club has improved at lot of our commercials, marketing, ticketing and has rightly been rewarded with the CEO post. Scott was the CEO so he's now managing the football operation at East Mains. Any time I've met or heard him he seems bright, personable, very hardworking and astute. Whether he can deliver a healthy football operation - he's had 18months of Calderwood and Fenlon to work with so maybe it's hard to judge.

If his role is purely administration then he's no doubt a good guy for the job. However a lot of clubs have a director with considerable football experience running their football operation - one who brings a more lasting strategy to the most important aspect of our business - the fitba. This encompasses:-

Squad building and signing strategy
Youth development plans
Fitness and performance programmes / standards
Diet, lifestyle and behaviour management
Recruitment & training of coaches and their performance management
Results, analysis, reviews and planning
Scouting systems

This programme may be influenced as the first-team coach changes but not to the point where it hands over 100% of the responsibility. We need to set the standards as a club and ensure that any new manager or player can meet these standards.

Re bit in bold- I agree we should have someone of this ilk. I was very much in favour of Alex Miller getting such a role at the time we were getting a new manager but no chance of that now......I can't think of a club in Scotland who has such a role other than Aberdeen with Willie Miller and he is supposedly the problem up there. Can you think of other clubs?

[Mikey]

Re bit in bold- I agree we should have someone of this ilk. I was very much in favour of Alex Miller getting such a role at the time we were getting a new manager but no chance of that now......I can't think of a club in Scotland who has such a role other than Aberdeen with Willie Miller and he is supposedly the problem up there. Can you think of other clubs?

There are lots. I mean lots and lots. Loads in fact. If not more.

Just don't ask for any examples other than Aberdeen.

And look at the good it's done them.

[PatHead]

There are lots. I mean lots and lots. Loads in fact. If not more.

Just don't ask for any examples other than Aberdeen.

And look at the good it's done them.

Who?, not Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, or Dundee Utd. Lots of clubs on the continent and England have it and it doesn't appear to do them much harm so can't agree its not worth investigating.

[RIP]

Re bit in bold- I agree we should have someone of this ilk. I was very much in favour of Alex Miller getting such a role at the time we were getting a new manager but no chance of that now......I can't think of a club in Scotland who has such a role other than Aberdeen with Willie Miller and he is supposedly the problem up there. Can you think of other clubs?

Celtic - John Park
Rangers - Gordon Smith
Aberdeen - Willie Miller
Hearts - John Murray but were after Jim Jefferies
ICT - Graeme Bennett
Dunfermline - Jim Leishman
Dundee United are still after Levein and hope he will return to the DOF role after his Scotland stint.
St Johnstone - The Brown dynasty has been with their clubs for decades and as passionate fans have a strong track record for being close to the workings of the football operation. They both have a reputation for appointing good managers and supporting them with good signings and man management.
Hibs - Petrie tried for Gordon Strachan recently which suggests he is trying to find a solution

The majority of clubs = in the EPL, Europe and SPL have a Football Director. They are not a pre-requisite for success.

However with our club having no football expertise on our large, well-paid board, why should we not consider replacing the wage of one director with someone who can bring football management experience.

With a turnover of six managers, ten coaches, a hundred players and a team and club in freefall - surely it's time to consider a bit of improvement in the football expertise within the boardroom?

[PatHead]

Celtic - John Park
Rangers - Gordon Smith
Aberdeen - Willie Miller
Hearts - John Murray but were after Jim Jefferies
ICT - Graeme Bennett
Dunfermline - Jim Leishman
Dundee United are still after Levein and hope he will return to the DOF role after his Scotland stint.
St Johnstone - The Brown dynasty has been with their clubs for decades and as passionate fans have a strong track record for being close to the workings of the football operation. They both have a reputation for appointing good managers and supporting them with good signings and man management.
Hibs - Petrie tried for Gordon Strachan recently which suggests he is trying to find a solution

The majority of clubs = in the EPL, Europe and SPL have a Football Director. They are not a pre-requisite for success.

However with our club having no football expertise on our large, well-paid board, why should we not consider replacing the wage of one director with someone who can bring football management experience.

With a turnover of six managers, ten coaches, a hundred players and a team and club in freefall - surely it's time to consider a bit of improvement in the football expertise within the boardroom?

Stand corrected re DoFs. Agree we need to change the football operational side of our business. By the way what was Graeme Bennett's football experience?

[RIP]

There are lots. I mean lots and lots. Loads in fact. If not more.

Just don't ask for any examples other than Aberdeen.

And look at the good it's done them.

Do we have an egg on face smiley MM? :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Bored of hibs is about where i am, I'm never embarrassed by them.

[Bostonhibby]

Proud to be a Hibby, massively irritated about where we are just now and how we came to be there. Will we rise again? Nae doubt, we always do. It's a rollercoaster..........................

[Andy74]

Celtic - John Park
Rangers - Gordon Smith
Aberdeen - Willie Miller
Hearts - John Murray but were after Jim Jefferies
ICT - Graeme Bennett
Dunfermline - Jim Leishman
Dundee United are still after Levein and hope he will return to the DOF role after his Scotland stint.
St Johnstone - The Brown dynasty has been with their clubs for decades and as passionate fans have a strong track record for being close to the workings of the football operation. They both have a reputation for appointing good managers and supporting them with good signings and man management.
Hibs - Petrie tried for Gordon Strachan recently which suggests he is trying to find a solution

The majority of clubs = in the EPL, Europe and SPL have a Football Director. They are not a pre-requisite for success.

However with our club having no football expertise on our large, well-paid board, why should we not consider replacing the wage of one director with someone who can bring football management experience.

With a turnover of six managers, ten coaches, a hundred players and a team and club in freefall - surely it's time to consider a bit of improvement in the football expertise within the boardroom?

I think out of those only Willie Miller has the type of role you are talking about.

Me, I prefer manager to be able to manage his team and bring in who he wants and he stands and falls by that.

[Hibiza]

Im embarrassed by folk like you. support your team. onward and upwards. :flag:

[Cropley10]

I think out of those only Willie Miller has the type of role you are talking about.

Me, I prefer manager to be able to manage his team and bring in who he wants and he stands and falls by that.

I'd say the role is quite similar across all of these Clubs. Dealing with the manager, teams and senior squad, rather than the operation, providing a point of continuity in developing and recruiting players and staff.

Absolutely no need for that role at Hibs though.

[King Paddy]

For what every reason we have lost out on two players to St Mirren and St Johnstone.

It may be the length of contract offered or our refusal to pay the player what they think they are worth, who konws? I am sure we were not simply out bid due to financial problems it is more likely we did not agree on the players agent valuation. It would appear they may have been offered similar deals by the Saints and for what ever reason Snubbed Hibs.

Before I go further I totally agree neither player was worth paying over the odds for.

PatFenlon is on record saying he is struggling to tepmpt players to Hibs. So our new stand and training centre are not the attractions the Chairman hoped they would be.

We are again being linked with Div 1 players and we all know how the last few turned out? We have loan signings we cannot count on keeping, if they are a success we know who will come calling.



Fightting relegation for the 2nd year in row and having our worst run of results at ER since almost anyone is old enough to recall.

We DESPERATELY need a flagship signing to rally the fans and show the SPL we are a club with ambition. Not looking for a panic buy just a statemant that will unite the fans and the club.

If the Board don't act soon we could be looking at under 4000 season tickets next year even if we do survive this season.

IMO i feel that the majority of the Hibs support presently accept that we are heading towards
the 1st division. As a case in point i was shopping today with the good lady and i bumped
into Simon Pia, we go back along way as we were involved with H. O. H. when we were last relegated.
I asked Simon how he felt about the state of our club and he was very appathetic,to the guy i remember 15 years ago. Maybe an age thing, we don't care, nor do we have the same anger as we get older and wiser?, but at the St.Jonstone match and other matches i have been to this season the atmosphere is listless, bored, and just sick of this nightmare and wish they could just wake up as if
it never happened. I also have resigning myself to watching Pat Fenlons boys in the 1st division, and you know what we might win some matches and entertain us along the way. Financially we would take a big hit but it could be a blessing in disguise.

[RIP]

Me, I prefer the manager to be able to manage his team and bring in who he wants and he stands and falls by that.

Sounds to me like you and the board have the same approach? It's a flawed strategy and has been completely discredited by the evidence of our slide over recent years. That's why I believe Petrie approached Strachan to be our Football Director. He could at least address the previous board misjudgements on the footballing front such as:-


The 'unworkable legacy' of changing managers every year
Giving every new manager carte blanche to overhaul the squad with temps and journeymen stifling the development of younger players
The constant change and lack of stability in training routines, formations, playing positions and tactics
The blind faith that an unproven new guy will always be better than what we have ...... and almost never are
The failure to address the fundamentals - fitness, discipline, performance, morale, basic skills (free kicks, corners, throws)
Losing ground to more settled teams

[Newhaven]

Worse than any individual signing I have ever seen, worse than any actual appointment of a manager I have seen, was the decision to not take this total dream of a get out that I could not believe at time what a chance to move forward.

Well done Rod (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/hibs_reject_163_300k_offer_for_manager_colin_calde rwood_1_1714544)

I was looking for CC to get sack at this juncture I think with a lot of others as it appeared he was offering nothing, now Petrie should have been on the brink in first instance for making another bad choice but he choose to reject this and thought wrongly he was the man for a 2nd time, that decision has cost firstly money we lost the compo and probably lost some money sacking him so the great accountant is off to a flyer in costing us 300k off the bat. If he had already thought of PF as a manager back then he could have got him in for pre season and that might have cost us some of the compo but was a fresh start would have been great.

We now have a manager with one hand tied behind back as we were left in a mess and loans are all we can really manage to help us out, loans that if Petrie had his eye on ball we might not need to be wasting money on if he did his job correctly.

Would we be 2nd bottom if PF had started season we cannot truly say my opinion is no we would be better off I think he is better than CC maybe not 4th but doing ok is where I think we might be with a few more permanent signings.

The only person who should be embarressed is Petrie, he has cost this club with his errors what has gone before cannot allow for such incompetance and it was, gross incompetance. I do not care if he is paid or not he should have got sacked right after CC and I trust him not, even if things turn round that he will not screw up again. It is not CCs fault we are here it is Rod Petrie's. How good would 300k been? even if poetic license 150k would have done.

It was proven 100% he made an error.

Sums it up perfectly Carlsberg.

Petrie's stubbornness and resilience in some aspects of his leadership have been fantastic. Think of Fletch wanting to go to Celtic and the Brown/Thomson saga through Willie Mckay but on this aspect of his stewardship he got it totally wrong.

Calderwood clearly didn't want to be here in the summer and then for him (Coco) to say that he was lucky to get the assistants job at Birmingham was a total slap in the face for supporters who stood by him.

We should have dumped him then and there but instead the board fed us this Tom Kite (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20110705/club-update_2262950_2386569) and here we are 7 months later reaping the rewards for keeping him :boo hoo:

[AlbertK86]

Worse than any individual signing I have ever seen, worse than any actual appointment of a manager I have seen, was the decision to not take this total dream of a get out that I could not believe at time what a chance to move forward.

Well done Rod (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/hibs_reject_163_300k_offer_for_manager_colin_calde rwood_1_1714544)

I was looking for CC to get sack at this juncture I think with a lot of others as it appeared he was offering nothing, now Petrie should have been on the brink in first instance for making another bad choice but he choose to reject this and thought wrongly he was the man for a 2nd time, that decision has cost firstly money we lost the compo and probably lost some money sacking him so the great accountant is off to a flyer in costing us 300k off the bat. If he had already thought of PF as a manager back then he could have got him in for pre season and that might have cost us some of the compo but was a fresh start would have been great.

We now have a manager with one hand tied behind back as we were left in a mess and loans are all we can really manage to help us out, loans that if Petrie had his eye on ball we might not need to be wasting money on if he did his job correctly.

Would we be 2nd bottom if PF had started season we cannot truly say my opinion is no we would be better off I think he is better than CC maybe not 4th but doing ok is where I think we might be with a few more permanent signings.

The only person who should be embarressed is Petrie, he has cost this club with his errors what has gone before cannot allow for such incompetance and it was, gross incompetance. I do not care if he is paid or not he should have got sacked right after CC and I trust him not, even if things turn round that he will not screw up again. It is not CCs fault we are here it is Rod Petrie's. How good would 300k been? even if poetic license 150k would have done.

It was proven 100% he made an error.


Excellent post..... Watch out for all ROD'S wee love children giving you a row !!!

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Sounds to me like you and the board have the same approach? It's a flawed strategy and has been completely discredited by the evidence of our slide over recent years. That's why I believe Petrie approached Strachan to be our Football Director. He could at least address the previous board misjudgements on the footballing front such as:-


The 'unworkable legacy' of changing managers every year
Giving every new manager carte blanche to overhaul the squad with temps and journeymen stifling the development of younger players
The constant change and lack of stability in training routines, formations, playing positions and tactics
The blind faith that an unproven new guy will always be better than what we have ...... and almost never are
The failure to address the fundamentals - fitness, discipline, performance, morale, basic skills (free kicks, corners, throws)
Losing ground to more settled teams


I agree with all the points in your list but surely a decent board/manager should be able to achieve all of them without a director of football.

Directors of football can get in the way and undermine the manager. Starch an wouldn't come cheap, I'd rather spend the extra cash on the manager of player budget.

[MrSmith]

I have never been embarrassed by Hibs, people there yes but never Hibs! However I will admit to being deeply disappointed by the way our club has been run over the last five years. This has come around due to the amount of managers and players using the revolving door and also the modus operandi employed by the board that has brought us to this equally distressing point.

[Sammy7nil]

Im embarrassed by folk like you. support your team. onward and upwards. :flag:

great post :rolleyes:

[son of haggart]

IMO i feel that the majority of the Hibs support presently accept that we are heading towards
the 1st division. As a case in point i was shopping today with the good lady and i bumped
into Simon Pia, we go back along way as we were involved with H. O. H. when we were last relegated.
I asked Simon how he felt about the state of our club and he was very appathetic,to the guy i remember 15 years ago. Maybe an age thing, we don't care, nor do we have the same anger as we get older and wiser?, but at the St.Jonstone match and other matches i have been to this season the atmosphere is listless, bored, and just sick of this nightmare and wish they could just wake up as if
it never happened. I also have resigning myself to watching Pat Fenlons boys in the 1st division, and you know what we might win some matches and entertain us along the way. Financially we would take a big hit but it could be a blessing in disguise.

I remember arguing heatedly with one of the Pia's in the basement cafe at edinburgh Uni in the mid 70s (may have been Martin ) and they were about as Hibby as you could get. We all get less entusiastic with age but it is hard when your team drifts away - I remember a similar feeling in the late 70s/ ealry 80s as a Hearts fan. hard to get up the motivation to go even with a season ticket.

[HNA6]

Excellent post..... Watch out for all ROD'S wee love children giving you a row !!!Deary me ...

[Leithenhibby]

never



p.s. haven't read your post, title is enough for me.



:agree:

[Lucius Apuleius]

Excellent post..... Watch out for all ROD'S wee love children giving you a row !!!

In my opinion, you are starting to come across as an extremely immature little boy. People disagree with your viewpoint of Petrie. Live with it.

Oooooooooooooooo, wait for all the board hater wee children to come and give me a row.

[Bostonhibby]

Sounds to me like you and the board have the same approach? It's a flawed strategy and has been completely discredited by the evidence of our slide over recent years. That's why I believe Petrie approached Strachan to be our Football Director. He could at least address the previous board misjudgements on the footballing front such as:-


The 'unworkable legacy' of changing managers every year
Giving every new manager carte blanche to overhaul the squad with temps and journeymen stifling the development of younger players
The constant change and lack of stability in training routines, formations, playing positions and tactics
The blind faith that an unproven new guy will always be better than what we have ...... and almost never are
The failure to address the fundamentals - fitness, discipline, performance, morale, basic skills (free kicks, corners, throws)
Losing ground to more settled teams


I tend to agree with this and the evidence over the last 4 or 5 years is that the being able to put it all down to whoever is in the managerial ejector seat means that the board can retain a certain immunity by putting everything, including maybe the failure to close a deal down to the manager, so managers recently have left on terms at the boards instigation, or get sacked, whereas the "leaders" on the board control their own destiny/pay and terms whatever happens to our club.