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View Full Version : NHC Fulham sign Aberdeen youngster Grimmer- Bad for Scottish football



R'Albin
18-01-2012, 08:08 PM
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Fulham-snap-up-Aberdeen-youngster-Jack-Grimmer-article854992.html


Fulham have signed 17-year-old midfielder Jack Grimmer from Aberdeen, the Barclays Premier League club have confirmedGrimmer will join the Cottagers' development squad for the remainder of the season, having signed a deal until 2015.
The midfielder was the youngest Aberdeen first-team player when he made his debut against Rangers in April 2010, aged just 16 years, two months and 13 days old.

Despite the fact that it's Aberdeen who are potentially losing money, this irks me a bit to be honest. Fulham are able to tempt this guy with "Over four times" the wages he was on at Aberdeen. But I would be surprised if he actually starts a premier league game, so he could very easily be 21/22 and have zero first team experience whereas if he stayed on at the sheep then he may have been that age, getting first team football and then make a high money move, benefitting the selling club, buying club and player. It's not good that English clubs have started doing this, one of the best ways for Scottish clubs to progress forward is to produce good young players then sell them for a decent sum of money.

Scottish football is slowly dying and it's because of England and other countries getting ridiculous sums of money from Sky, champions league advertising etc and the difference is getting gradually bigger. If teams are getting youngsters that have potential taken away from them for hardly any money then Scottish football is in a really bad place. Good luck to Grimmer and I hope it goes well for him but I could see this being a bad career move.

Andy74
18-01-2012, 08:11 PM
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Fulham-snap-up-Aberdeen-youngster-Jack-Grimmer-article854992.html



Despite the fact that it's Aberdeen who are potentially losing money, this irks me a bit to be honest. Fulham are able to tempt this guy with "Over four times" the wages he was on at Aberdeen. But I would be surprised if he actually starts a premier league game, so he could very easily be 21/22 and have zero first team experience whereas if he stayed on at the sheep then he may have been that age, getting first team football and then make a high money move, benefitting the selling club, buying club and player. It's not good that English clubs have started doing this, one of the best ways for Scottish clubs to progress forward is to produce good young players then sell them for a decent sum of money.

Scottish football is slowly dying and it's because of England and other countries getting ridiculous sums of money from Sky, champions league advertising etc and the difference is getting gradually bigger. If teams are getting youngsters that have potential taken away from them for hardly any money then Scottish football is in a really bad place. Good luck to Grimmer and I hope it goes well for him but I could see this being a bad career move.

It's not exactly new. Guys like Darren Fletcher didn't even get a start with a Scottish club. That's happened for decades.

Didn't the likes of Alan Hansen and Colin Calderwod never really play in Scotland?

greenlex
18-01-2012, 08:15 PM
It's not exactly new. Guys like Darren Fletcher didn't even get a start with a Scottish club. That's happened for decades.

Didn't the likes of Alan Hansen and Colin Calderwod never really play in Scotland?

I think Hansen went to liverpuddle from the Jags of Partick.
Correct with Calderwood though.

MWHIBBIES
18-01-2012, 08:18 PM
He will probably end up coming back down here on loan like Griffiths has.

I do agree with you though, look at Danny Wilson for example, he was men't to be the new Alan Hanson but he has barely played a match in 2 years since he got his big move. He will probably end up being no where near as good as he potentially could have been because of this.

R'Albin
18-01-2012, 08:27 PM
It's not exactly new. Guys like Darren Fletcher didn't even get a start with a Scottish club. That's happened for decades.

Didn't the likes of Alan Hansen and Colin Calderwod never really play in Scotland?

I suppose it has, but it will have more of an affect now because we can't tempt a player with the quality we could back when Calderwood and Hansen were around, so our only option is to produce young players. And it's been happening more often recently: Scott Allan, Islam Feruz of Celtic, Danny Wilson and Grimmer off the top of my head.

Perspective
18-01-2012, 10:05 PM
Hopefully we don't suffer a similar fate with Ross Caldwell.

I'm a bit concerned that he's out of contract at the end of the season and seems to have dropped off the first-team bench recently. Read talk of interest from Rangers and there are bound to be interested parties in England.

pentlando
18-01-2012, 11:10 PM
This is why scottish clubs should have their best prospects on longer contracts, therby keeping the negotiating hands to them rather than agents, other clubs and the player himself. This is how hibs managed to get the best deal all round for fletcher, and the players reaping the rewards at the moment.

lucky
18-01-2012, 11:17 PM
Unfortunately no one is going to turn down 4 times their salary. It is hard to blame the kid for making as much money as he can when he can. Scotland is now a football backwater and always will be. Champions League and massive TV deals have destroyed football outside the big European Leagues

Bishop Hibee
18-01-2012, 11:20 PM
We lost Kenny Miller to the Huns aged 18/19 on what was probably at least 4 times what we were paying him. I'd rather he'd went to Fulham.

ScottB
18-01-2012, 11:26 PM
This is indicative of the new Homegrown player rules in England. We will see Premiership clubs buying up any talented looking kids on the chance they make it into their first team squad and therefore count towards the quota.

While it was obviously intended to encourage youth programmes, I can see these rules resulting in smaller clubs losing their talented youngsters sooner for potentially less, plus a lot of young guys getting a big move arguably too soon.

Dashing Bob S
19-01-2012, 12:03 AM
It's certainly grim for Scottish football at the moment, but it looks like its Grimmer for England.

frazeHFC
19-01-2012, 12:38 AM
It's certainly grim for Scottish football at the moment, but it looks like its Grimmer for England.

:top marks:thumbsup::not worth

Hibbyradge
19-01-2012, 07:41 AM
Aberdeen would have ruined him by regularly playing him in a poor first team. He'll be allowed to develop more gradually at Fulham.

I remember I got dogs abuse for suggesting that it was time to rest David Wotherspoon after he'd been shown up against Rangers.

It now looks like he could have done with that break.

Hibernia Na Eir
19-01-2012, 07:57 AM
couldn't give a monkeys!!

RyeSloan
19-01-2012, 12:30 PM
I wish there was more talenented Scottish youngsters going down south to be looked after by some of the richest clubs in the world....sounds like it is a perfect place for them to be developed and nurtured. Not always convinced that sticking a 17 year old into an SPL 1st team is the best way to develop them as a player, sure they get lots of experience but maybe that actually detracts from their technical development, no matter the long term toll it may have on their body playing against much more physically mature players.

Anyway Grimmer is an exception rather than the rule, there is plenty more players being developed in Scotland so it's hardly a mass exodus.

Brummie_Hibs
19-01-2012, 12:43 PM
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Fulham-snap-up-Aberdeen-youngster-Jack-Grimmer-article854992.html
Scottish football is slowly dying and it's because of England and other countries getting ridiculous sums of money from Sky, champions league advertising etc and the difference is getting gradually bigger.
Scottish football is dying because the Scottish football authorities screwed up.

Andy74
19-01-2012, 01:14 PM
I wish there was more talenented Scottish youngsters going down south to be looked after by some of the richest clubs in the world....sounds like it is a perfect place for them to be developed and nurtured. Not always convinced that sticking a 17 year old into an SPL 1st team is the best way to develop them as a player, sure they get lots of experience but maybe that actually detracts from their technical development, no matter the long term toll it may have on their body playing against much more physically mature players.

Anyway Grimmer is an exception rather than the rule, there is plenty more players being developed in Scotland so it's hardly a mass exodus.

Yep, it would be interesting to hear if people though Darren Fletcher was bad for Scottish football.

Never played here, developed at Man U and Scotland's captain and best player.

As I said before this isn't a new thing and it's been a bit overplayed the last few days.

derekHFC
19-01-2012, 01:17 PM
I think Hansen went to liverpuddle from the Jags of Partick.
Correct with Calderwood though.

Hansen was at Alloa as a youngster and had an opporunity to play with them, but turned them down to play with his mates at Sauchie Juniors.

He left them and went to Partick before signing for Liverpool.

Frogga
19-01-2012, 02:44 PM
I think it's a good move for any young Scottish player. I mean they're going to get better coaching (usually) and being taken away from their home will hopefully help them to realise their potential by taking them out of their comfort zone.

Bad news for Scottish football, but good for the international side imo (as Rep.Ireland have proved).

R'Albin
19-01-2012, 05:51 PM
Scottish football is dying because the Scottish football authorities screwed up.

Yeah they take a big share of the blame, but the main reason the EPL is so much bigger than the spl is because of Sky money.


Yep, it would be interesting to hear if people though Darren Fletcher was bad for Scottish football.

Never played here, developed at Man U and Scotland's captain and best player.

As I said before this isn't a new thing and it's been a bit overplayed the last few days.

But it's been happening more often and with that new homegrown player rule (as mentioned by ScottB) it's going to happen more often. It has helped the national team but is having a bad effect on the SPL losing all these players for nothing.

ancient hibee
19-01-2012, 06:05 PM
Denis Law went straight down south because Aberdeen wouldn't sign him.

Brummie_Hibs
19-01-2012, 08:53 PM
Yeah they take a big share of the blame, but the main reason the EPL is so much bigger than the spl is because of Sky money.

And that is because the Scottish football authorities screwed up.

It wasn't long before you were born that Scottish football was a marketable commodity. You could argue that Scottish football, with particularly Rangers pioneered what you see now in the EPL. You are part of the EPL generation and that is all you know, but it was different before then. The English League had to change things around, and they did in the correct way (some would say for the worse). The Scottish Leagues got it all wrong.

R'Albin
19-01-2012, 09:29 PM
And that is because the Scottish football authorities screwed up.

It wasn't long before you were born that Scottish football was a marketable commodity. You could argue that Scottish football, with particularly Rangers pioneered what you see now in the EPL. You are part of the EPL generation and that is all you know, but it was different before then. The English League had to change things around, and they did in the correct way (some would say for the worse). The Scottish Leagues got it all wrong.

My Dad was telling me recently that the reason we don't have a good deal is because we left to make our own TV channel and the OF didn't accept? It was obviously before my time so I don't really know the ins and outs. So it is Sky's money that is making the differance but it's the Scottish football authorities' fault that we don't have that money (or at least more of it) ?

jdships
19-01-2012, 09:34 PM
This is indicative of the new Homegrown player rules in England. We will see Premiership clubs buying up any talented looking kids on the chance they make it into their first team squad and therefore count towards the quota.

While it was obviously intended to encourage youth programmes, I can see these rules resulting in smaller clubs losing their talented youngsters sooner for potentially less, plus a lot of young guys getting a big move arguably too soon.

Absolutely correct IMO !!
Just look at the BBC red button " football gossip " over the past few weeks and English Premier clubs are attempting to sign youngsters age 14/17 from Italy, Spain, South America, Nth Ireland as well as England
Therefore this is not a " poor old Scotland " syndrome it is simply "Supply and Demand " / " Market Forces" or whatever
I have been told of two other contracted pro's , not Hibees, who are on Liverpool radar at age 16 .

:rolleyes:

tamig
19-01-2012, 11:05 PM
My Dad was telling me recently that the reason we don't have a good deal is because we left to make our own TV channel and the OF didn't accept? It was obviously before my time so I don't really know the ins and outs. So it is Sky's money that is making the differance but it's the Scottish football authorities' fault that we don't have that money (or at least more of it) ?

It is indeed. The SPL more to the point. After the ludicrous SPL TV idea was sunk by the OF in 2002, Sky made a good offer (45M I think) but the arrogant SPL thought they could get more elsewhere. Sky walked away, nobody came in and they ended up with a buttons deal with the BBC. A few clubs went into administration after that and a few years later, the SPL did it again. It was a toss up between Sky and Setanta. Setanta offered a bit more cash but only the OF and Aberdeen (I think) voted for the Sky package. As history tells us, this was another big mistake. Sky now call the shots and the SPL have kb'd them twice so you can understand why any current and future deals are likely to be on relatively low terms. The SPL are a bunch of clowns.

Haymaker
20-01-2012, 01:00 AM
And that is because the Scottish football authorities screwed up.

It wasn't long before you were born that Scottish football was a marketable commodity. You could argue that Scottish football, with particularly Rangers pioneered what you see now in the EPL. You are part of the EPL generation and that is all you know, but it was different before then. The English League had to change things around, and they did in the correct way (some would say for the worse). The Scottish Leagues got it all wrong.

It was dangerously close to a European League with Rangers leaving Scottish football for the new league... Very, very close.

It also isnt just the SPL/SFA who screwed up, the EFA wouldnt split the TV cash more generously in favour of the top league teams which led to their resignations from the EFA and establishing the Premier League which it cannot influence. BSKYB basically put all its money into the EPL and marketed it as best they could and prayed that it worked. It did. Almost every smaller league outside of the "Big 5" and realistically Spain and England are subject to being purged because, quite simply, they can afford too take the risk on young talent who may or may not make it at the bigger club.

fatbloke
20-01-2012, 01:22 AM
It's not exactly new. Guys like Darren Fletcher didn't even get a start with a Scottish club. That's happened for decades.

Didn't the likes of Alan Hansen and Colin Calderwod never really play in Scotland?

Will he go down in the record books as never having played or managed in Scotland:greengrin

beensaidbefore
20-01-2012, 01:49 PM
We lost Kenny Miller to the Huns aged 18/19 on what was probably at least 4 times what we were paying him. I'd rather he'd went to Fulham.


I agree, i know for a fact that was the case with Ian Murray when he left to ther huns. 4x wages, Very handsome signing on fee, a brand new motor for the mrs, etc etc. As a young man you dont envisage that your not gonna make it, especially when agents will be filling their heads with rubbibsh about how good they are. Youngsters need ambition and belief, and it seems a very Scottish/British thing to be looking over our shoulders in case we dont make it, rather than focussing on succeeding.


Sad as it is, change Fulham or indeed any English club, to the he words Old Firm, and the same thing has been happening here for decades. At least now we wont be coming up against the players week after week, and we know they have been bought with good intentions rather than with the sole purpose of weakening the opposition.