Bigotry,bombs and football

[H18sry]

starting now on BBC1, should be interesting :rolleyes:

[Twiglet]

No mention of hearts :confused:

Here they are now...

[Tricla]

See the Yam stub his tab oot on the Celtc fan!

[Sodje_18]

Here they are now...

They got off lightly imo

[essexhibee]

Yams got off very lightly. Shame that.

[H18sry]

The non bigoted Hearts fans at it as well, no surprise there then :rolleyes:

[madabouthibs]

See the Yam stub his tab oot on the Celtc fan!

'Tic man showed a decent level of restraint there. That yam **** would have been wearing my substantial forehead on his face for a split second. :agree:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Thats half an hour i'll never get back!
6 fans banned for Celtic for sectarian singing over the last few years, thats funny!

[Sir David Gray]

And the award for the most irrelevant programme goes to....

Absolute garbage.

[Tricla]

Doncaster is a tit.

Talk about side stepping the issue.

[CallumLaidlaw]

So, rangers and Celtic are guilty of sectarianism and Scottish football authority's aren't willing to do anything about it.

What a revelation!!

[Greentinted]

See the Yam stub his tab oot on the Celtc fan!


Classy move that one, backed up by all his mates. Prick!

[oconnors_strip]

'Tic man showed a decent level of restraint there. That yam **** would have been wearing my substantial forehead on his face for a split second. :agree:

That tic fan is my mate ally, he isn't the fighting type of guy but I'm sure the cameras captured what fully happened, will ask him what did!

I hope the sfa and spl take note of what the bbc have shown, especially the police officers not taking any action to the singing at the 19s final!

[Gatecrasher]

Doncaster is a tit.

Talk about side stepping the issue.

He's a total bawbag, no surprise to me what he said at all.
The programme was a complete waste of time

[Capt Mainwaring]

Underwhelming to say the least.

Celtic, Rangers and the Yams outed as the disgrace of Scottish football with a core of bigoted support. Tell us something we don't know!

Neil Doncaster came across as an apologetic tit refusing to to acknowledge the responsibily of the clubs to root out the **** elements in their support.

[Saorsa]

He's a total bawbag, no surprise to me what he said at all.
The programme was a complete waste of timeWhat was he asked and what was his answer? I didnae waste my time watching it.

[Winston Ingram]

Not exactly hard hitting that. As an expose it was the equivalent of a Page 3 girl showin ye there ankle

I can't believe the only game they went to was a Youth Cup Final and filmed the singing of 2 songs:confused:

They could go to any game in the SPL and drown in footage.

Utterly embarrassing.

[Gatecrasher]

What was he asked and what was his answer? I didnae waste my time watching it.

He was asked why uefa have charged rangers 3 times for sectarian offences and the SPL have taken no action against any clubs. His answer was basically it's not the clubs problem as long as they do what's reasonable within their means.

[Lofarl]

Typical whitewash by BBC Scotland. I would love to see a show like dispatches or panorama do a bigotry investigation.

That shown was summed up as " They sing nasty songs". "Aye but so do they". Plus the wee yams in the background asking if they can join the club.

I see no mention made at all of the first team to be founded by Irish Catholics. Could it be that Hibs sorted out all that crap decades ago, why the BBC never thought to check that out i will never understand.

That show gave no solutions, just like the SFA or the current or any government for that matter. You will not get votes if you hammer the teams will you. A viable solution as I see it is to ask uefa to monitor the old firms gamesm an after a few warnings start hitting the clubs with points deductions and euro bans. That would sort them out quick.

Also nice to see glasgows finest ignore the folk songs, I sure this was just a isolated incident and the constabulary will learn from this error. Also nice to see both clubs adopt a hardline stance to fans caught singing offensive songs. Celtic for example banning 6 fans just emphasises that they really do have the greatest fans in the world.

[ScottB]

Watching the SPL guy squirm at not punishing clubs sums it up.

We will never be rid of this crap as long as the SFA and the SPL are too pitifully weak to do anything about it. Here we have videos of 3 clubs fans singing and chanting this bile, plus invading the pitch to attack someone. What have they done so far? Have Hearts been fined for that? No. Have any of the three been punished for their singing? No.


Our only hope is that UEFA gets sick of it and comes rolling in and does the job for them.

[Sir David Gray]

Typical whitewash by BBC Scotland. I would love to see a show like dispatches or panorama do a bigotry investigation.

That shown was summed up as " They sing nasty songs". "Aye but so do they". Plus the wee yams in the background asking if they can join the club.

I see no mention made at all of the first team to be founded by Irish Catholics. Could it be that Hibs sorted out all that crap decades ago, why the BBC never thought to check that out i will never understand.

That show gave no solutions, just like the SFA or the current or any government for that matter. You will not get votes if you hammer the teams will you. A viable solution as I see it is to ask uefa to monitor the old firms gamesm an after a few warnings start hitting the clubs with points deductions and euro bans. That would sort them out quick.

Also nice to see glasgows finest ignore the folk songs, I sure this was just a isolated incident and the constabulary will learn from this error. Also nice to see both clubs adopt a hardline stance to fans caught singing offensive songs. Celtic for example banning 6 fans just emphasises that they really do have the greatest fans in the world.

Aye but according to the Celtic fan that they had appearing on the programme, the songs that the Celtic support sing are only political so are therefore not really sectarian.

The sad thing is, the vast majority of them really believe that's true.

[Saorsa]

He was asked why uefa have charged rangers 3 times for sectarian offences and the SPL have taken no action against any clubs. His answer was basically it's not the clubs problem as long as they do what's reasonable within their means.Which they dinnae, so it is the clubs problem. The real answer is there are too many OF sychophants and mealy mouthed *****bags within the SFA & SPL tae do anything about it

[The Harp Awakes]

Sectarianism in Scotland is a massive problem to sort out partly because it is endemic in all parts of Scottish society particularly in the West of Scotland.

I've been called a Fenian B by the Glasgow Polis several times over the years just for wearing a Hibs scarf. I never reacted but also didn't make a complaint which I regret. The police are tasked with sorting out sectarianism but they are part of the problem.

As for the BBC documentary, a missed opportunity for me as it scratched the surface. I thought the SPL CEO should have been challenged more and the Clubs got off lightly.

[seanraff07]

If they want real evidence of sectarian abuse and chanting then why don't they actually go to a first-team OF Derby instead of an u19s game!

[steakbake]

Useless people at the head of the game and a limp attempt to cover the issues by the BBC.

These clubs should be being nailed. But no, wouldn't want to offend the OF.

[Jack]

Deleted by mistake!

Who pays Doncasters wages?

Who pays most into the SPL?

He's basically been paid off. Lack of integrity.

[steakbake]

From the divvy of the tv money, to the men in suits controlling the game, even to the media, its a massive self preservation society. What a shambles. I believe we could actually have a relatively decent product in scotland were it not for those responsible for running the game.

[Greentinted]

Hearts fans response to the programme in lauding nasty cretin shock: Classy Club, Classy Supporters. (http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/93111-the-guy-who-used-a-celtic-fan-as-an-astray/)

[seanraff07]

Hearts fans response to the programme in lauding nasty cretin shock: Classy Club, Classy Supporters. (http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/93111-the-guy-who-used-a-celtic-fan-as-an-astray/)

This is just some proof that it isn't just the so called "minority" of their support that are ****bags.

[The Harp Awakes]

Hearts fans response to the programme in lauding nasty cretin shock: Classy Club, Classy Supporters. (http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/93111-the-guy-who-used-a-celtic-fan-as-an-astray/)

Looks like the diet huns are turning into big huns.

[Boris]

Absolutely pathetic effort of a programme. Only good point was showing up the boy Doncaster again - every time he opens his mouth he puts his foot in it. Embarassment to Scottish TV journalism.

[jakki]

I'd ban every interational flag except the St Andrews Cross in the SPL. After all are we not the Scottish Premier League?. If peoples want to advertise where they come from, whereever from Watford, Swansea, Dublin or Belfast, as they are supporting a SPL team lets see the St Andrews Cross with their home area printed across it. They are supporting a Scottish team.

As for our foreign players lets see the same rule applied. Get their name blazed over the St Andrews Cross as their playing in the SPL but allow their home flags to be displayed at international games in Scotland and even on tv.

That would be one wee step against the problem.

[son of haggart]

I'd ban every interational flag except the St Andrews Cross in the SPL. After all are we not the Scottish Premier League?. If peoples want to advertise where they come from, whereever from Watford, Swansea, Dublin or Belfast, as they are supporting a SPL team lets see the St Andrews Cross with their home area printed across it. They are supporting a Scottish team.

As for our foreign players lets see the same rule applied. Get their name blazed over the St Andrews Cross as their playing in the SPL but allow their home flags to be displayed at international games in Scotland and even on tv..


Funnily enough I wrote a charter suggesting just that 10 years ago and it was published on this site, and jamobs net and kickback. Chris Robinson refused at first then banned national flags at Tynie. The charter also suggested banning chants (such as hello hello and pro-ira chants)

got me a nice few threats to my family from those with an interest in continuing their internecine war

i agree myself re scottish flags but in the end I think the only position is ban all national flags except at european and national games - only club regalia (and songs) at club games
That would be one wee step against the problem

[SmokieJoe]

No time for the first 2, seems hibs have given little light to third one of late.

The first 2 remain the same. Hibs will change their view of the last one under CC's first summer transfer window.

[SmokieJoe]

I'd ban every interational flag except the St Andrews Cross in the SPL. After all are we not the Scottish Premier League?. If peoples want to advertise where they come from, whereever from Watford, Swansea, Dublin or Belfast, as they are supporting a SPL team lets see the St Andrews Cross with their home area printed across it. They are supporting a Scottish team.

As for our foreign players lets see the same rule applied. Get their name blazed over the St Andrews Cross as their playing in the SPL but allow their home flags to be displayed at international games in Scotland and even on tv.

That would be one wee step against the problem.

:saltireflag:thumbsup:

[mickki40]

I think Richard Benjamin c.e.o. of Nil By Mouth got it right. " there too scared of losing votes" Campbell Corrigan is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. He claims that the Police are actively Stamping out Bigotry etc with undercover officers at games...well Mr Corrigan, maybe the polis who told me to sit down or I would be out of the Ground for daring to point out a particular offensive Rangers Fan who was singing Billy Boys towards Hibs Fans. You are ineffective to Say the Least. David Martin Rangers Head of Security( hahahahahahahahahahaha) what a joke you are. Just send your Stewards to the Blue Order next time Hibs are at your ground then you will be able to ban them all at once. That will not happen Until I report you to FARE. Nicola Sturgeon?????? 1.7 million in Initiatives??????? Where is this money being spent??????
Neil Doncaster= Complete Tool.

INVESTIGATION hahahahahahaha Do not make me laugh, I did deeper investigations into cutting up the mouse in the lab when I was a kid.

The answer is very simple... Points deductions everytime a sectarian song is sung, Then after the first 20 points have been deducted 50% of all profit fine. There i sorted it for you SPL SFA.

[marinello59]

The answer is very simple... Points deductions everytime a sectarian song is sung, Then after the first 20 points have been deducted 50% of all profit fine. There i sorted it for you SPL SFA.

Doncaster all but said that will never happen as, unlike UEFA, they see the fans and the club as separate entities. Depressing stuff. I am no fan of politicians getting involved in football at all but they might be our only hope of seeing this eradicated.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Thats half an hour i'll never get back!
6 fans banned for Celtic for sectarian singing over the last few years, thats funny!


Aye but according to the Celtic fan that they had appearing on the programme, the songs that the Celtic support sing are only political so are therefore not really sectarian.

The sad thing is, the vast majority of them really believe that's true.

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Celtic - what sectarian songs do they sing? Like the gadge said they sing political songs (which are nothing to do with football) but I don't think I've heard them sing an anti-protestant song yet?

Happy to be proved wrong though.

[Barney McGrew]

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Celtic - what sectarian songs do they sing? Like the gadge said they sing political songs (which are nothing to do with football) but I don't think I've heard them sing an anti-protestant song yet?

Happy to be proved wrong though.

Unfortunately, you're spot on. The Celtc support hide behind the fact that most of the ditties they spout are political rather than bigoted, and it would be pretty difficult for any of them to be charged and prosecuted in court for singing them.

It doesn't make it right though, because whether they are sectarian or political there's no place for them at a Scottish football match.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

what are the pond life on sickback saying to the programme?

[wazoo1875]

what are the pond life on sickback saying to the programme?

I had a quick look last night and they are basically hero worshipping the nugget that stubbed his fag out on the Celtic fan. The 2 or 3 sensible lads who suggested that the lout should be done for assault were just shouted down whilst the rest of them carried on with wanting to buy him beers. Unfortunately pondlife doesn't even begin to describe some of them :-(

[AndyM_1875]

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Celtic - what sectarian songs do they sing? Like the gadge said they sing political songs (which are nothing to do with football) but I don't think I've heard them sing an anti-protestant song yet?

Happy to be proved wrong though.

I thought the Sellik fan was a downright embarassment, the usual weasel words I've come to expect from them. "It's Political". :blah:

Yeah sure.Tell that to the Celtic plc:rolleyes:
It was staggering for him to genuinely suggest that Sellik fans have the intelligence to discriminate between the 1916-22 version of the IRA and the PIRA?
They really discriminate between the two when they're making the political statement :blah: of singing 'Boys of the Old Brigade' and putting on the add on of 'Provisional Wing'.:rolleyes: The IRA chanting is puke making and all credit to Pat Nevin (Hibby) for calling them out on it on Sportscene last week.

Certain Irish Rebel songs are sung by Sellik's notorious away following such as "Northmen Southmen" with the line of "soon there'll be no Protestants at all". Is that sectarian or just a jolly old laugh? There is always lots of chanting and screaming about "Orange *******s" whenever a decision goes against them. Is that sectarian? You can make up your own mind but I reckon it is.

After witnessing the video footage and then the ***** Jambos behaviour, I have never have I been more glad I'm a Hibs supporter. The idiot elements don't actually realise how much they are holding their clubs back, they call it 'tradition' but it smells like vomit to the outside world. As long as the Old Firm have this baggage they can never go anywhere, they'll never get out of Scotland and to the promised land of the Premiership and they'll never become world brands like Manchester United, Liverpool, Barcelona, Real or AC Milan. They're stuck in their daft wee backwater league and the rest of the footballing world is glad of it.

[Tricla]

Hearts fans response to the programme in lauding nasty cretin shock: Classy Club, Classy Supporters. (http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/93111-the-guy-who-used-a-celtic-fan-as-an-astray/)

Oh dear oh dear.

How embarrassing are they!

[heretoday]

It was trailed as an undercover investigative piece but in the end revealed nothing we don't know and the usual heads talked the usual stuff.

I am so glad we seem to have put that sleazy nastiness behind us at ER. I never felt comfortable with sectarian-type songs from Hibs fans.

Long live the Twelth Man and let the rest drown in their own disgusting juices.

[StevieC]

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Celtic - what sectarian songs do they sing? Like the gadge said they sing political songs (which are nothing to do with football) but I don't think I've heard them sing an anti-protestant song yet?

It is more by luck than design that most of the Celtic songs fall into a slightly grey'er area than the Huns (although they do have plenty sectarian ones that get aired on the supporters buses and in the pubs).

The bottom line is that the songs are sung to stoke up the fire and the rivalry between the two sets of supporters. This in itself is, IMO, an act of sectarianism .. despite the fact that there may not be any actual sectarian dialogue.

[johnrebus]

This programme was so bad I half expected Jonathon Watson too peek round a corner in full Chick Young garb with a 'HEH, HEH, HEH', at any minute.


:bitchy:

[StevieC]

It was trailed as an undercover investigative piece but in the end revealed nothing we don't know and the usual heads talked the usual stuff.

Correct. But what it did do, albeit pretty poorly IMO, was put people in authority on the spot on national TV.

Doncaster, especially, looked to be flapping when put on the spot. Hiding behind the law and the ability to secure convictions when pressed about what actions he/they would take. When did he become a procurator fiscal?
It didn't prevent UEFA from punishing Rangers so why should it stop the SPL?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Hearts fans response to the programme in lauding nasty cretin shock: Classy Club, Classy Supporters. (http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/93111-the-guy-who-used-a-celtic-fan-as-an-astray/)

Feel a bit sorry for the 2 or 3 sensible posters amongst that cesspit.
Some of the mongs glorifying the fag incident looking to try and get the twat that done its name posted on the thread, pity nobody was daft enough to do it.

[southern hibby]

Never seen the programme, so cant comment on that side of things but I can say.

I was christened Church of Scotland, joined the Armed Forces (Royal Navy) and still serving. I have done just over 19 years and have less than 3 to go.
BUT I AM EDINBURGH HIBERNIAN FOOTBALL CLUB 100%. I am proud to support a team that has done many things first in European and Scottish football including removing the cloak of sectarianism from our past years ago and moving on.

Unfortunately I work with Rangers Celtic and Hearts fans that always seem to have other agendas rather than football. I ask them how many have been to Ireland and believe it or not most of them havn't. They don't know the difference between a Psalm or a Hymn, but that's ok as they know the difference between a PROD and a TAIG.

Ignorance is bliss, I could call them Neanderthall's but they never had the brain capacity to evolve. These ignorant people are exactly that, ignorant.

I would ask them one question and ask them to give me an honest answer and this would be.If their house was on fire, their kids were inside and the fireman who turned up to get their kids out supported the opposite team and was the opposite religion, would they tell him to get lost or allow them to save the kids lifes.

In this day and age there is no place for this type of behavouir and as long as the Powers that be (Football Authorities, Police, Courts and Parliament) allow it WE WILL NEVER GET IT REMOVED.

[CropleyWasGod]

Here's a thought.

Given that Messrs. Paisley and McGuiness seem to have put their dogma and differences to one side, and are actually working with each other,...... how would it play if they were to get up in front of their respective "followers", and say

"cut this stuff out... we have moved on and so should you. WE no longer recognise your vision of Ireland, which belongs in the past. We have grown up... now do the bloody same!"

Or am I living in a cosy wee idealistic world?

[Hibernia Na Eir]

And the award for the most irrelevant programme goes to....

Absolute garbage.

cheers for the tip mate, i recorded it but will swerve it now.

[Keith_M]

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Celtic - what sectarian songs do they sing? Like the gadge said they sing political songs (which are nothing to do with football) but I don't think I've heard them sing an anti-protestant song yet?

Happy to be proved wrong though.

The political stuff is just a whitewash. They hide behind the fact that singing songs glorifying a banned terrorist organisation shooting people and blowing them up isn't inherently sectarian. In my opinion, sectarian is to narrow a term to be used. Those kind of songs are just as bad as any of Rangers sectarian ditties.


Now to the gritty nitty. You asked what songs they DO sing that are sectarian.

How about the add on to the beginning of the Soldier's Song...

"North Men, South Men come on all,
soon there'll be no protestants at all".

I've also had the 'pleasure' of sitting beside a bunch of them on train back to Glasgow who were singing songs that included the words "Scottish *********s". Putting aside for a moment the idiocy of a bunch of guys from Clydebank singing that, you can add Racism to their litany of crimes as well.


Have I proved you wrong or would you like anything more? :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

One quote from the police was, we cant arrest our way out of this problem. I found that a ridiculous statement. So in effect THEY are ignoring the law. They imo could arrest anyone showing any sectarian acts, then perhaps it might just get the problem away from football.

As for erasing it from society, probably not. Although one thing at a time, and they should be doing what they are paid to do.:grr:

[Hamish]

Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee
And the award for the most irrelevant programme goes to....

Absolute garbage.

Correct. Depressingly typical of the amateurish BBC Scotland output on both TV and Radio.

They should stick to producing programmes like The Scheme.

[Gatecrasher]

One quote from the police was, we cant arrest our way out of this problem. I found that a ridiculous statement. So in effect THEY are ignoring the law. They imo could arrest anyone showing any sectarian acts, then perhaps it might just get the problem away from football.

As for erasing it from society, probably not. Although one thing at a time, and they should be doing what they are paid to do.:grr:

If the programme highlighted anything its that no one wants to or is going to take responsibility for dealing with this

[Danderhall Hibs]

Have I proved you wrong or would you like anything more? :wink:

I'm delighted to be wrong!

Is there just the one song they sing that's sectarian?

[Broken Gnome]

I'm delighted to be wrong!

Is there just the one song they sing that's sectarian?

A nice wee airing of the Jim Jefferies song, substituting 'Jambo' with a certain colour, was heard loud and clear two weeks...

Interested to see what the reaction of those in the West that fascinate themselves with Irish descent is to the Queen's Dublin's visit. To sweeping to suggest that they'll claim she shouldn't set foot there while the vast majority of Ireland is nothing but positive?

[Sir David Gray]

I'd ban every interational flag except the St Andrews Cross in the SPL. After all are we not the Scottish Premier League?. If peoples want to advertise where they come from, whereever from Watford, Swansea, Dublin or Belfast, as they are supporting a SPL team lets see the St Andrews Cross with their home area printed across it. They are supporting a Scottish team.

As for our foreign players lets see the same rule applied. Get their name blazed over the St Andrews Cross as their playing in the SPL but allow their home flags to be displayed at international games in Scotland and even on tv.

That would be one wee step against the problem.

Although it's not my cup of tea and I've never owned one in my life, given that Scotland is currently part of the United Kingdom, I don't see how anyone could (or should) be prevented from flying the Union flag, wherever they want.


At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Celtic - what sectarian songs do they sing? Like the gadge said they sing political songs (which are nothing to do with football) but I don't think I've heard them sing an anti-protestant song yet?

Happy to be proved wrong though.


Unfortunately, you're spot on. The Celtc support hide behind the fact that most of the ditties they spout are political rather than bigoted, and it would be pretty difficult for any of them to be charged and prosecuted in court for singing them.

It doesn't make it right though, because whether they are sectarian or political there's no place for them at a Scottish football match.

I heard them calling Jim Jefferies an "orange b" loud and clear at Tynecastle last week.

I'm pretty certain that would be considered as sectarian by a court.

And the IRA songs that they sing, whilst political rather than overtly sectarian, are lauding a terrorist organisation which is proscribed in this country and I'm sure that is a criminal offence.

[CropleyWasGod]

Although it's not my cup of tea and I've never owned one in my life, given that Scotland is currently part of the United Kingdom, I don't see how anyone could (or should) be prevented from flying the Union flag, wherever they want.




If it's the rules of the ticket, I would have thought it's quite easy to enforce.

[heretoday]

Let's face it a lot of Celtic fans are prods themselves and follow the club because -

a) They like the glory
b) They like offending the Rangers mob
c) They like taking offence at the Rangers mob

[Greentinted]

Although it's not my cup of tea and I've never owned one in my life, given that Scotland is currently part of the United Kingdom, I don't see how anyone could (or should) be prevented from flying the Union flag, wherever they want.


I heard them calling Jim Jefferies an "orange b" loud and clear at Tynecastle last week.

I'm pretty certain that would be considered as sectarian by a court.

And the IRA songs that they sing, whilst political rather than overtly sectarian, are lauding a terrorist organisation which is proscribed in this country and I'm sure that is a criminal offence.

For me any national flag should be permitted in a footballing context exclusively for international and perhaps European ties. The problem with the Union Flag is its myriad connotations and the context within which it is displayed.
On top of the Balmoral Hotel? Fair enough
Brandished as a provacative emblem by some missing-link in a Hearts top? Erm Naw.

The second thing (and none of this is personal FH) is the moulding and narrowing of the word 'sectarian'. Sectarianism is as likely to be used to describe adherents to political intolerance as much as it's religious associations. So surely that renders the Celtic argument of 'we're no sectarian, we're political' moot. (And IMO it matters not a jot, it's vile and unacceptable irrespective of what excuse they want to use)