Accies & St Mirren Games [Archive] - hibs.net Messageboard

Aldo

25-01-2011, 08:57 AM

greenlex

25-01-2011, 09:05 AM

Like the Ayr United cup tie likes?

lord bunberry

25-01-2011, 11:26 AM

Like the Ayr United cup tie likes?

It's slightly different as season ticket holders will not have to pay

Franck is God

25-01-2011, 11:32 AM

SlickShoes

25-01-2011, 12:10 PM

price is just one of the many excuses Hibs fans use to not go, even if Hibs did reduce prices for a single game I doubt there would be a bigger crowd.

It would do nothing other than reward the current walk up fans that would have gone anyway and perhaps annoy current ST holders.

I think that ticket deals are the way forward where you would gain a decent discount for buying tickets for several games in advance or buy one full price ticket and bring someone else along for half price.

I would happily pay £15 to see SPL games, there is not a chance i will pay £25 + unless its a BIG game, league/cup/relegation decider. For me £25 is a lot of money and for 90 minutes of variable quality entertainment its not good enough value.

fatbloke

25-01-2011, 01:21 PM

price is just one of the many excuses Hibs fans use to not go, even if Hibs did reduce prices for a single game I doubt there would be a bigger crowd.

It would do nothing other than reward the current walk up fans that would have gone anyway and perhaps annoy current ST holders.

I think that ticket deals are the way forward where you would gain a decent discount for buying tickets for several games in advance or buy one full price ticket and bring someone else along for half price.

Reward people who canny be ar5ed going in the first place. No thanks. I am ST holder where is my reward for my loyalty. If people do not want to attend **** them.

The Tubs

25-01-2011, 01:33 PM

I think it's a good idea. A move like this would help drive home the importance of the games to all fans, season ticket holders and walk-up fans alike.

marinello59

25-01-2011, 01:36 PM

I think it's a good idea. A move like this would help drive home the importance of the games to all fans, season ticket holders and walk-up fans alike.

It will let Season ticket holders know that they have been ripped off without significantly increasing the gate. Don't the fans already know how important the game is?

sunshine1875

25-01-2011, 01:54 PM

It will let Season ticket holders know that they have been ripped off without significantly increasing the gate. Don't the fans already know how important the game is?

:agree: would rather they provided a voucher allowing free transport to the key away games against Hamilton and St. Mirren to those that attends the home games.

Removed

25-01-2011, 01:55 PM

I would happily pay £15 to see SPL games, there is not a chance i will pay £25 + unless its a BIG game, league/cup/relegation decider. For me £25 is a lot of money and for 90 minutes of variable quality entertainment its not good enough value.

I think it's fair to say the St Mirren & Hamilton games are.

fatbloke

25-01-2011, 01:59 PM

It will let Season ticket holders know that they have been ripped off without significantly increasing the gate. Don't the fans already know how important the game is?

:top marks

Craig_in_Prague

25-01-2011, 02:03 PM

greenlex

25-01-2011, 02:35 PM

The Harp

25-01-2011, 04:35 PM

I am a season ticket holder and I have no problem Hibs dropping the price to get a crowd in. I pay up front to help budgeting.
I would even have no problem with them opening the gates and letting folk in free.Seriously I dont.
The problem at the moment is the bigger the crowd the more abuse would get hurled at the players.

I'm with you 100% on this one.:aok: The bigger the attendance the better the atmosphere as far as I'm concerned. If this means dropping prices drastically (or even free admission) for the vital games coming up then so be it.

billbee

25-01-2011, 04:49 PM

Can the club not subsidies coaches for away games? just a thought!

Sas_The_Hibby

25-01-2011, 04:58 PM

I would happily pay £15 to see SPL games, there is not a chance i will pay £25 + unless its a BIG game, league/cup/relegation decider. For me £25 is a lot of money and for 90 minutes of variable quality entertainment its not good enough value.

I'm afraid we can only dream of things being THAT good! :boo hoo:

nortonhibby

25-01-2011, 04:59 PM

I'm with you 100% on this one.:aok: The bigger the attendance the better the atmosphere as far as I'm concerned. If this means dropping prices drastically (or even free admission) for the vital games coming up then so be it.

Free admission RP Would wake up in the middle off the night kicking and screaming at the mere thought of free admission.

NORTHERNHIBBY

25-01-2011, 05:44 PM

these games are not just season defining they are future defining. If the Hibs support can't come out in numbers at the current roll up prices for pivotal games like this, then we may as well put the lights out and go home.

Gala Foxes

25-01-2011, 05:49 PM

For me the most important games this club has faced in the last 10 years or so IMHO.

RP should realise this and should drop the prices to £15 to try and get as many Hibs fans through those gates......I personally think we should all go and show the players what the club means to us (especially the new players if fit).

Would like to think we will have a few more new faces through the door by the end of the window. We need something to get the players motivated and this might just be what is needed.

CMON RP you know I am right.

don't be so naive as to expect a full house at Easter Road to spur on some of the free loaders we have on our books just now - lets face it some of them sadly don't give a toss if we stay up or go down as they are off in a few months

killie-hibby

25-01-2011, 05:51 PM

I'm with the ST holders on this.
They stump up their money in advance without knowing the product they'll need to suffer. We can't let walk ups in for a cheap price, if they are real fans and want to support the club get out of this predicament then if its 15 or 25 quid, it shouldn't really matter.

I'm a season ticket holder and believe it would be beneficial for the clubs future if we allowed walk up's in free or £5 maximum. I disagree with posters who want subsidised travel to Hamilton and Paisley. All this does is put our money into our competitors coffers.

fatbloke

25-01-2011, 06:25 PM

I'm a season ticket holder and believe it would be beneficial for the clubs future if we allowed walk up's in free or £5 maximum. I disagree with posters who want subsidised travel to Hamilton and Paisley. All this does is put our money into our competitors coffers.

No sorry disagree full price or you will never sell another ST again. I certainly wouldn't buy ours again.

bingo70

25-01-2011, 06:32 PM

No sorry disagree full price or you will never sell another ST again. I certainly wouldn't buy ours again.

:agree:

I'm having serious doubts about renewing next year, if they started making it dirt cheap to get in without a season ticket that'd make my decision for me.

Baldy Foghorn

25-01-2011, 06:32 PM

greenlex

25-01-2011, 06:37 PM

So there are now conditions to supporting Hibs?

Some will only go to all important relegation deciders if the admission price is right, Jeezo I have heard it all now....

You either support the club or you don't.... As a season ticket holder who stumped cash up front, I would be furious if walk ups were getting cheaper admission.....
I see where you are coming from but look at it from another angle Badly. What about fans that would love to go and help the team on the night in what will undoubtably two 6 pointers but with cash tight cannot afford to go. With the econocmic podsition folks find themselves in it might just turn ER into a place where the opposition in these two games are phased.

Baldy Foghorn

25-01-2011, 06:49 PM

I see where you are coming from but look at it from another angle Badly. What about fans that would love to go and help the team on the night in what will undoubtably two 6 pointers but with cash tight cannot afford to go. With the econocmic podsition folks find themselves in it might just turn ER into a place where the opposition in these two games are phased.

Thats a fair argument, but if this was to be the case then you would have to consider the benefits of buying season tickets.

greenlex

25-01-2011, 06:52 PM

Thats a fair argument, but if this was to be the case then you would have to consider the benefits of buying season tickets.
If it were the norm I agree but if it was the difference between another great adventure or staying in the SPL it might be worth it. Just for the record it should only be for these two games. Who knows maybe some stay away fans might get the bug again or have I taken that too far?

Baldy Foghorn

25-01-2011, 07:19 PM

monktonharp

25-01-2011, 08:17 PM

If it were the norm I agree but if it was the difference between another great adventure or staying in the SPL it might be worth it. Just for the record it should only be for these two games. Who knows maybe some stay away fans might get the bug again or have I taken that too far?:agree:am with you on this..............special circumstances,special rates to try and maximise support for crucial matches that could send the club into a downward spiral,that we might not recover from,for years. we are talking about 2 matches and not a whole season.

3pm

25-01-2011, 08:27 PM

I wouldn't reduce the prices.

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 08:40 PM

Thats a fair argument, but if this was to be the case then you would have to consider the benefits of buying season tickets.

I've said this before but it's a bit like buying a pair of jeans in October for £50 then getting humpty 'cos they're in the sale in December for £25.

You have the option not to buy a ST and take advantage of the "offers".

Baldy Foghorn

25-01-2011, 08:44 PM

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 08:54 PM

It is hardly a fair comparison is it?

I think it is. Would you complain if you booked a holiday for £1000 in January then find out the guy next to you on the plane got a last minute deal for £300 in July?

Removed

25-01-2011, 09:03 PM

I've said this before but it's a bit like buying a pair of jeans in October for £50 then getting humpty 'cos they're in the sale in December for £25.

You have the option not to buy a ST and take advantage of the "offers".

I'm with Baldy F on this one. Retail sales are a given and if you make your choice in October in your scenario then you live with that choice. There shouldn't be a "sale" at the fitba imo. Farting about with pricing now will cause more damage long term imo. ST holders should be encouraged not pissed off.

Removed

25-01-2011, 09:07 PM

I think it is. Would you complain if you booked a holiday for £1000 in January then find out the guy next to you on the plane got a last minute deal for £300 in July?

Yes, because the holiday companies are telling us if you book in advance you get a better deal. If that is not true then what do they get, lots of unsold holidays or having to sell way lower than the market rate and a hit on their profits. Then pissed off advanced buyers and knock on next holiday season.

bingo70

25-01-2011, 09:09 PM

I think it is. Would you complain if you booked a holiday for £1000 in January then find out the guy next to you on the plane got a last minute deal for £300 in July?

no but you'd be less likely to book a holiday for £1000 to the same place next year, you'd wait till the last minute and try and get the £300 deal, that wouldn't be good for the travel company would it?

can we use a different analogy now? :greengrin

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 09:11 PM

I'm with Baldy F on this one. Retail sales are a given and if you make your choice in October in your scenario then you live with that choice. There shouldn't be a "sale" at the fitba imo. Farting about with pricing now will cause more damage long term imo. ST holders should be encouraged not pissed off.

ST holders give the club there money up front and should get the benefits that go with that.

If the club want/need to sell the rest of the tickets at a tenner rather than get nothing for them then they should.

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 09:13 PM

Then pissed off advanced buyers and knock on next holiday season.

no but you'd be less likely to book a holiday for £1000 to the same place next year, you'd wait till the last minute and try and get the £300 deal, that wouldn't be good for the travel company would it?

can we use a different analogy now? :greengrin

Aye but we will go back next season though. I don't think any ST holder would be that pissed off that a couple of games were a tenner that they would stop going.

Removed

25-01-2011, 09:14 PM

ST holders give the club there money up front and should get the benefits that go with that.

If the club want/need to sell the rest of the tickets at a tenner rather than get nothing for them then they should.

Then next season they will have no ST holders apart from Greenlex

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 09:16 PM

Then next season they will have no ST holders apart from Greenlex

Why?

bingo70

25-01-2011, 09:17 PM

Aye but we will go back next season though. I don't think any ST holder would be that pissed off that a couple of games were a tenner that they would stop going.

It'd make a difference to whether or not i'd get a season ticket, i'd probably still go to most games but if we were playing as bad as we have been recently i doubt very much if i'd pay £20 odd quid to watch games i'd have a fair idea would be *****, i might go to the bigger games or the games for reduced ticket prices but i wouldn't have gone to as many as i've been to this season.

I imagine that'd be the same for a lot of people with season tickets and if they make walk up ticket prices better value than ST prices thats what would happen more often IMO.

Removed

25-01-2011, 09:19 PM

Why?

Why pay 400 quid upfront in the summer when you could pick and choose games and get in for a tenner when you can be arsed because the ground wont be full

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 09:20 PM

I imagine that'd be the same for a lot of people with season tickets and if they make walk up ticket prices better value than ST prices thats what would happen more often IMO.

Are you questioning the loyaly of ST holders? :greengrin

I'm not suggesting make it better value (you get the added benefits of having a ST as well as the cost saving) but I don't see a problem in the club trying to fill the ground.

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 09:21 PM

Why pay 400 quid upfront in the summer when you could pick and choose games and get in for a tenner when you can be arsed because the ground wont be full

In addition to loyalty you'd get a guaranteed seat every week, first dibs on away game tickets, first dibs on semi finals/final tickets?

Removed

25-01-2011, 09:33 PM

In addition to loyalty you'd get a guaranteed seat every week, first dibs on away game tickets, first dibs on semi finals/final tickets?

There is no reward for loyalty at ER though is there. From where I sit now I'm sure I could guarantee a seat every week next season given the number of empty ones I see around me never mind the East or West.

When was the last time anyone didn't get a ticket for an all ticket game that really wanted one? If as I suspect there will less ST holders next season, then that means more tickets for Ibrox/parkhead/pbs on public sale.

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 09:42 PM

There is no reward for loyalty at ER though is there. From where I sit now I'm sure I could guarantee a seat every week next season given the number of empty ones I see around me never mind the East or West.

When was the last time anyone didn't get a ticket for an all ticket game that really wanted one? If as I suspect there will less ST holders next season, then that means more tickets for Ibrox/parkhead/pbs on public sale.

Exactly - what's in it for you? :agree: Or do what most folk do and get a student one - at least then you wouldn't be paying full price. :greengrin

Removed

25-01-2011, 09:45 PM

Exactly - what's in it for you? :agree: Or do what most folk do and get a student one - at least then you wouldn't be paying full price. :greengrin

You missed out borrow some other mugs ST when they canny go :greengrin

lucky

25-01-2011, 10:05 PM

As a ST holder I don't care if they discount certain games. I buy mine to guarantee my seat with my mates. We also get first crack at all away fixtures. OK this season demand has not been great and there is no trips to hampden to get worked up about. But if dropping the prices for two key games get more fans in ER and cheers Hibs on to SPL survival i will be well chuffed.

The bottom line is the SPL is too expensive for most fans so any light relief surely helps. FFS we are facing a double dip resession, with thousands losing there jobs lets give a little help to fans who are struggling.

Danderhall Hibs

25-01-2011, 10:09 PM

You missed out borrow some other mugs ST when they canny go :greengrin

They're non-transferable. :greengrin

killie-hibby

25-01-2011, 10:59 PM

Then next season they will have no ST holders apart from Greenlex

For gods sake take your blinkers off. It's a suggested reduction in walk up prices for TWO specific fixtures, not twentytwo.
I hope you dont buy a season ticket for 2011/2012 then you will realise how costly it has been for walk up fans via telephone calls to the booking office,handling charges
and long queues to pick up the ticket.
By the way I am a season ticket holder and only for conveniance reasons. Due to the dross on show i have missed about half of our home games to date . Therefore I have been paying approximately £40 for a game. But that's my choice. It wouldnt bother me one iota if from now on walk up's got in free for the rest of this season. On reflection due to the importance of the aforementioned fixtures I would be very happy for Hibs to allow the walk ups free admission plus a £5 voucher to spend in the tea bars.

sahib

25-01-2011, 11:02 PM

I've said this before but it's a bit like buying a pair of jeans in October for £50 then getting humpty 'cos they're in the sale in December for £25.

You have the option not to buy a ST and take advantage of the "offers".

That is a ludicrous argument. You have stated exactly why it is against the clubs interest to do so. They want you to buy a season ticket and not be put off because you suspect they will drop admission prices sometime into the season.

Removed

25-01-2011, 11:09 PM

For gods sake take your blinkers off. It's a suggested reduction in walk up prices for TWO specific fixtures, not twentytwo.
I hope you dont buy a season ticket for 2011/2012 then you will realise how costly it has been for walk up fans via telephone calls to the booking office,handling charges
and long queues to pick up the ticket.
By the way I am a season ticket holder and only for conveniance reasons. Due to the dross on show i have missed about half of our home games to date . Therefore I have been paying approximately £40 for a game. But that's my choice. It wouldnt bother me one iota if from now on walk up's got in free for the rest of this season. On reflection due to the importance of the aforementioned fixtures I would be very happy for Hibs to allow the walk ups free admission plus a £5 voucher to spend in the tea bars.

For your information I don't have any blinkers on. Two games is the tip of the iceberg, and anything that deters folk buying STs is bad for the club financially in the long term.

If you have a problem with booking fees and queues take that up with the club and come and report back, don't moan on here about it unless you are going to do something proactive.

And any walk up fan that orders tickets online or over the phone for any game apart from cat A needs their head examined. There hasn't exactly been a shortage of seats this season.

And you've missed half the games due to the dross on show - take it you won't bother next year either then?

Franck Stanton

25-01-2011, 11:13 PM

I'm with you 100% on this one.:aok: The bigger the attendance the better the atmosphere as far as I'm concerned. If this means dropping prices drastically (or even free admission) for the vital games coming up then so be it.

Yup, seems sensible to me, I am S/t as well but, if it means more bums on seats, better atmosphere - helps the team perform - why not ? Because it may upset a few thin - skinned S/T holders ? well IMO they need to have a look at the bigger picture here - we NEED to get behind the team now, get an atmosphere at the games and give 100% backing the team - which with a couple more signings will after all be almost a complete new team and dont deserve to be playing in front of a few thousand fans because of their predessors inability to play and get results. We are in deep doo doo and the CLUB, not the team, NEED our support.

Removed

25-01-2011, 11:23 PM

Yup, seems sensible to me, I am S/t as well but, if it means more bums on seats, better atmosphere - helps the team perform - why not ? Because it may upset a few thin - skinned S/T holders ? well IMO they need to have a look at the bigger picture here - we NEED to get behind the team now, get an atmosphere at the games and give 100% backing the team - which with a couple more signings will after all be almost a complete new team and dont deserve to be playing in front of a few thousand fans because of their predessors inability to play and get results. We are in deep doo doo and the CLUB, not the team, NEED our support.

More bums on seats. Better atmosphere. Better performances. Where is your evidence for this?

And me and others are thin skinned and need to see the bigger picture :faf:

I'm_cabbaged

25-01-2011, 11:59 PM

In addition to loyalty you'd get a guaranteed seat every week, first dibs on away game tickets, first dibs on semi finals/final tickets?

You're taking the piss now. :greengrin

Franck Stanton

26-01-2011, 12:31 AM

More bums on seats. Better atmosphere. Better performances. Where is your evidence for this?

And me and others are thin skinned and need to see the bigger picture :faf:

Point 1 : Why do I need proof ? Don't you think playing in front of more supporters motovates players ? Reduced prices would attrct more supporters to come along -[ yes I know it didn't v Ayr in cup, but S/t's weren't valid for that game whereas they would be for the games quoted along with the chance to see the new players signed since then ] After all it is just my opinion.

Point 2 - Yes I do think you are one of the people I reffer to as " Thin-skinned", why else highlght the fact? The excuse put forward by some S/T holders for not letting walk-up punters in for reduced prices is ludicrous IMO, we are in serious relegation trouble, get as many people inside the ground as possible, short of dragging them in, reduced entry is IMO [again] one way to do it.

Speedy

26-01-2011, 12:57 AM

What about having a season ticket holders "bring a friend for a fiver" offer?

Would this please both parties?

Danderhall Hibs

26-01-2011, 06:20 AM

That is a ludicrous argument. You have stated exactly why it is against the clubs interest to do so. They want you to buy a season ticket and not be put off because you suspect they will drop admission prices sometime into the season.

Sorry I can't see how it's ludicrous. ST holders know what they're buying at the time, if they'd prefer to take the risk and wait on reduced ticket prices that may or may not happen later in the year they shouldn't buy a ST.

Just like how I needed a new winter's coat this year but didn't fancy paying full price in October so I took a chance and waited until Christmas to have a look at the coats in the sales.

Danderhall Hibs

26-01-2011, 06:25 AM

You're taking the piss now. :greengrin

:greengrin I was struggling to think what benefits having a ST gets you! Why do folk bother with one?

Maybe if there were no ST holders the ticket prices could be priced differently and we'd get better gates?

Removed

26-01-2011, 06:30 AM

Point 1 : Why do I need proof ? Don't you think playing in front of more supporters motovates players ? Reduced prices would attrct more supporters to come along -[ yes I know it didn't v Ayr in cup, but S/t's weren't valid for that game whereas they would be for the games quoted along with the chance to see the new players signed since then ] After all it is just my opinion.

Point 2 - Yes I do think you are one of the people I reffer to as " Thin-skinned", why else highlght the fact? The excuse put forward by some S/T holders for not letting walk-up punters in for reduced prices is ludicrous IMO, we are in serious relegation trouble, get as many people inside the ground as possible, short of dragging them in, reduced entry is IMO [again] one way to do it.

Because without proof that it would generate a bigger crowd I doubt the board would sanction it.

And bigger crowds motivating players? Again depends on the nature of the crowd. Can't see why anyone would be motivated any more if there were 15000 as opposed to 10000. What are those extra 5000 or whatever going to do to motivate them?

And a full house is going to reduce our chances of relegation? Now who is being ludicrous.

marinello59

26-01-2011, 06:40 AM

Sorry I can't see how it's ludicrous. ST holders know what they're buying at the time, if they'd prefer to take the risk and wait on reduced ticket prices that may or may not happen later in the year they shouldn't buy a ST.

Just like how I needed a new winter's coat this year but didn't fancy paying full price in October so I took a chance and waited until Christmas to have a look at the coats in the sales.

Yes. Part of the sales pitch is that it is cheaper to do so. That's not part of the deal when you buy a winter coat is it?

Lucius Apuleius

26-01-2011, 06:44 AM

WOW!!! Surely if they are such big games then we should increase the price because everybody will want to see them. Cat A prices at least please!!!! Lets get some money into the club.

Danderhall Hibs

26-01-2011, 07:05 AM

Yes. Part of the sales pitch is that it is cheaper to do so. That's not part of the deal when you buy a winter coat is it?

Fair point. Maybe they should drop the guaranteed saving part from the sales pitch and that would allow them to change prices "fairly".

WOW!!! Surely if they are such big games then we should increas the price because everybody will want to see them. Cat A prices at least please!!!! Lets get some money into the club.

You can't do that! ST holders would be up in arms that they were saving even more than they were told they would!

BTW if and when we do start selling out they will increase prices again - it's supply and demand.

killie-hibby

26-01-2011, 07:07 AM

For your information I don't have any blinkers on. Two games is the tip of the iceberg, and anything that deters folk buying STs is bad for the club financially in the long term.

If you have a problem with booking fees and queues take that up with the club and come and report back, don't moan on here about it unless you are going to do something proactive.

And any walk up fan that orders tickets online or over the phone for any game apart from cat A needs their head examined. There hasn't exactly been a shortage of seats this season.

And you've missed half the games due to the dross on show - take it you won't bother next year either then?
I do not have any problem with booking fees, it's the walk up fans who have the problem.
What evidence do you have that by reducing prices for two games which will likely have a significant influence on relegation will deter supporters from buying season tickets.
As usual Hibs will get my ST money next year. As usual it's my choice whether I turn up or not.
I apologise for accusing you of wearing blinkers. Regretably you give the impression of a person being incapable of allowing other people to have or purchase something unless they pay the same or more than it cost you.
You know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

marinello59

26-01-2011, 07:11 AM

Fair point. Maybe they should drop the guaranteed saving part from the sales pitch and that would allow them to change prices "fairly".

You can't do that! ST holders would be up in arms that they were saving even more than they were told they would!

BTW if and when we do start selling out they will increase prices again - it's supply and demand.

The club has run a couple of family promotions already this season in the Famous Five stand. Perhaps that is the way forward? There are areas of the ground where it is harder to sell season tickets such as the extreme ends of the main and east stands. How about pricing those areas more cheaply all season round for walk ups?

Danderhall Hibs

26-01-2011, 07:14 AM

The club has run a couple of family promotions already this season in the Famous Five stand. Perhaps that is the way forward? There are areas of the ground where it is harder to sell season tickets such as the extreme ends of the main and east stands. How about pricing those areas more cheaply all season round for walk ups?

Completely agree with that - ticket prices shouldn't be the same for the centre of the West or East as they are for at either end of those stands.

Removed

26-01-2011, 07:41 AM

I do not have any problem with booking fees, it's the walk up fans who have the problem.
What evidence do you have that by reducing prices for two games which will likely have a significant influence on relegation will deter supporters from buying season tickets.
As usual Hibs will get my ST money next year. As usual it's my choice whether I turn up or not.
I apologise for accusing you of wearing blinkers. Regretably you give the impression of a person being incapable of allowing other people to have or purchase something unless they pay the same or more than it cost you.
You know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

And all fans who buy tickets for away games. I get as p'd of about booking fees as the next person.

The evidence is the fact that folk are posting it on here. I'm even questioning it myself and won't just renew automatically just because that's what I have always done.

So I am incapable because I don't agree with your point of view :faf: