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Greentinted
06-12-2010, 09:48 AM
Following on from the greatest player debate got me into discussion with a few bods about managers. While the genius of Stein, Shankly, Ferguson, Busby, Trappatoni, Mourinho and a whole lot more besides is rightly celebrated, I'm going for this man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqAZsoF-ghw&feature=related).

A visionary way ahead of his time and a man whose flaws only serve to humanise his memory.

Pretty Boy
06-12-2010, 09:57 AM
I have huge respect for the likes of Shankly, Ferguson and Clough who either picked sleeping giants up of their knees and took them back to the top or, perhaps more impressively, took mediocre clubs to unprecedented heights.

As for the best European manager it's so hard to choose. Stein took 11 local boys to a European Cup, that is something that will never be repeated. Clough won Nottingham Forest back to back European Cups, Trappatoni is only behind Fergie in terms of success, Shankly made Liverpool what they are/were, Fergie rebuilt Man Utd and turned them into arguably the biggest club in the world, Mourhino has an outstanding record, while there are those who will laugh good old Sven has a hell of a record and i doubt there will be many who have a more successfful start in mamagement than Pep Guardiola.

Very hard to choose but for sheer longevity i'd go for Sir Alex.

Filled Rolls
06-12-2010, 10:02 AM
I would go for Rinus Michels, taking Ajax from the position of a club in what was (then) a diddy league, and making them the dominant force in European football.

I'd also give a nod to Hugo Meisl another pioneer of the game. He made Austria into one of the best teams in the world in the 1930s.

Both started off from nothing and went right to the pinnacle of the sport. As well as that what they developed was imitated by other, more developed, clubs and nations.

yekimevol
06-12-2010, 11:47 AM
marcello lippi
world cup, champions league, the european supercup, everything in italy. personally won the several coach of the year awards.

moff1875
06-12-2010, 11:57 AM
marcello lippi
world cup, champions league, the european supercup, everything in italy. personally won the several coach of the year awards.

I would be saying Lippi if his time at Juventus hadn't been tainted with doping scandals and Moggi's corrupt influence on referees. Not Lippi's fault granted, and he's up there, but something reeks about Juve in the 90s and 00s. Can't argue with his World Cup.

Personally, Ferguson for managerial honours and longevity. IMO Mourinho may be up there at the end of his career.

SteveHFC
06-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Sir Alex Ferguson

lucky
06-12-2010, 12:08 PM
Sir Alex Ferguson

Agree 100%. His record at aberdeen then 20 years of sucess at Manchester united. Other who deserve a mention are Clough and Stein,

yekimevol
06-12-2010, 12:18 PM
[QUOTE=moff1875;2655415]I would be saying Lippi if his time at Juventus hadn't been tainted with doping scandals and Moggi's corrupt influence on referees. Not Lippi's fault granted, and he's up there, but something reeks about Juve in the 90s and 00s. Can't argue with his World Cup.


as far as i am aware most of the corruption allegations were about the tenure and time of fabio capello, not lippi. They are also going to be dropped according to juventus and the titles stripped from them returned.

keekaboo
06-12-2010, 12:27 PM
There's absolutely no contest.... it's Jim Duffy.


I have it on good authority from Charlie Nicholas that his mate 'James' was destined for greatness but had his confidence ruined by an unappreciative Hibs support.

Hibs Class
06-12-2010, 12:32 PM
I reckon Bob Paisley would be in with a shout. His record at Liverpool was fantastic and he did it without huge spending.

Re Jock Stein I don't get this focus on 11 local boys. There wasn't the same mobility of players in the 60s and teams made up of mostly locals wasn't as unique as it would be today. (If anything I'd say that Rangers nine in a row was a more remarkable achievement than Celtic's)

The Silver Fox
06-12-2010, 01:28 PM
Bob Paisley without a doubt on achievements alone. Right up there with the very best. He may not have been in charge when Liverpool were still to rise to the top but he was very much hands on in the background. As manager he could not have ben any more successful.

Pretty Boy
06-12-2010, 01:36 PM
I reckon Bob Paisley would be in with a shout. His record at Liverpool was fantastic and he did it without huge spending.

Re Jock Stein I don't get this focus on 11 local boys. There wasn't the same mobility of players in the 60s and teams made up of mostly locals wasn't as unique as it would be today. (If anything I'd say that Rangers nine in a row was a more remarkable achievement than Celtic's)

Really?

When they were outspending the rest of the league by a ridiculous ammount?

Hibs Class
06-12-2010, 03:02 PM
Really?

When they were outspending the rest of the league by a ridiculous ammount?

As far as I can recollect, Man U similarly tried to outspend all other clubs in the 70s and 80s but couldn’t buy success, so spending doesn’t always lead to titles. Rangers spending after Murray arrived obviously made a big difference and 2 or 3 titles in a row wouldn’t have been that remarkable, but I still think that them sustaining it for 9 years (when Celtic had the chance to spend even if they initially chose not to) was no less an achievement than Celtic’s nine in a row.

basil fawlty
06-12-2010, 03:08 PM
:grr: Stein Clough Busby etc before sky and mega rich owners spoilt the game and made a gulf between the top clubs and the rest, such as champions league not european cup, it should be renamed , rich clubs with massive debt mini leagues,and wait a minute if you fail and finish third they put you in another mini league so you can try to claw back some money to reduce your massive debt. How fair is that? Rant over
and that is why i have no interest in the champions league, managers at that level dont build teams they buy them , managers, pre sky and rich owners in my opinion were superior to todays ,

sundo1875
06-12-2010, 04:42 PM
Brian Clough

DH1875
06-12-2010, 05:13 PM
Where does Jose Mourinho come on the list? Forget Inter and Chelsea and remember he also won the UEFA cup and Champions league with Porto.

Greentinted
06-12-2010, 05:25 PM
Where does Jose Mourinho come on the list? Forget Inter and Chelsea and remember he also won the UEFA cup and Champions league with Porto.

Thats where the subjective aspect of opinion comes in. How exactly do you measure this kind of thing? No doubt OPTA will have an exhaustive list of options but it will always be a source of debate, hence the beauty of individualism.

Love the Green
06-12-2010, 05:28 PM
Could ex hibs manager Jock Stein be in with a shout?:wink:

"keep the faith"

Greentinted
06-12-2010, 05:34 PM
I suppose its all relative but Dario Gradi was mentioned and I suppose those who ply their trade in the lower echelons of the game are oft overlooked. If success is measured purely by the contents of a trophy cabinet then fair dos, but there have been some herculean efforts lower down the food chain over the years too.

Black Kyle
06-12-2010, 05:34 PM
Brian Clough for me in my time. Would have taken Engerlund to glory had he been given the chance.

West Upper
06-12-2010, 05:36 PM
I would have to go for Bob Paisley. Winning the First division 6 times in 8 years is a great record but i also think Jose Mourinho will be ever more successful in the years to come.

snooky
06-12-2010, 06:51 PM
I would have to go for Bob Paisley. Winning the First division 6 times in 8 years is a great record but i also think Jose Mourinho will be ever more successful in the years to come.

I read a biography on Shankly. Quite a character but the one thing that stood out for me was that he Shanks was the mouth and inspiration but Paisley was the brains behind the Liverpool success.

There are a few contestants for best manager ever.
Fergie, Paisley and Stein would be my picks of the Brits.
However, Rinus Michels will forever be my hero for "totaalvoetba" :not worth

Greentinted
06-12-2010, 06:59 PM
Bertie Mee is worthy of an honourable mention even if its just for his inclusion HERE! (http://fanchants.com/football-songs/hibs-chants/bertie-mee-said-bill/) :greengrin

moff1875
06-12-2010, 07:08 PM
[QUOTE=moff1875;2655415]I would be saying Lippi if his time at Juventus hadn't been tainted with doping scandals and Moggi's corrupt influence on referees. Not Lippi's fault granted, and he's up there, but something reeks about Juve in the 90s and 00s. Can't argue with his World Cup.


as far as i am aware most of the corruption allegations were about the tenure and time of fabio capello, not lippi. They are also going to be dropped according to juventus and the titles stripped from them returned.

Doping scandal was from the period Lippi was in charge of Juve. Not saying he was involved in any way, but it's suggested his players were being doped by the club's medical team.

The club were caught while Capello was in charge, but Moggi was general manager from 1994 to 2006, when Lippi was in charge. It's widely claimed that the match and referee fixing was going on years before the scandal broke. Again, not in any way to do with Lippi, but I personally believe some of Juve's titles in the 90s were not exactly without interference.

snooky
06-12-2010, 07:20 PM
[QUOTE=yekimevol;2655427]

Doping scandal was from the period Lippi was in charge of Juve. Not saying he was involved in any way, but it's suggested his players were being doped by the club's medical team.

The club were caught while Capello was in charge, but Moggi was general manager from 1994 to 2006, when Lippi was in charge. It's widely claimed that the match and referee fixing was going on years before the scandal broke. Again, not in any way to do with Lippi, but I personally believe some of Juve's titles in the 90s were not exactly without interference.
Sorry, I find it hard to conceive that this type of thing goes on anywhere in football. :cool2:

heidtheba
06-12-2010, 08:18 PM
I suppose its all relative but Dario Gradi was mentioned and I suppose those who ply their trade in the lower echelons of the game are oft overlooked. If success is measured purely by the contents of a trophy cabinet then fair dos, but there have been some herculean efforts lower down the food chain over the years too.


Good shout - If I could have had a Hibs management dream-team then Dario G would be in charge of the youth and reserves.