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NAE NOOKIE
30-11-2010, 04:25 PM
There have been a lot of threads over the last few months about getting fans back to ER but on that note there is something else that needs sorted.

There are a number of examples in sport where support for the local team is total even though they might not be very good.

An example would be Newcastle Utd ... Not very many Geordie Reds going about.

At what point did Edinburgh football lose that sort of community feeling and I am talking about Hibs and the Yams here.

I would guess that for every person who goes to ER or the other place on a Saturday there is an Edinburgh ' football fan ' who either goes to see the OF or would rather watch the OF or EPL on SKY and ESPN than actually go along to support their local club.

What ( if anything ) can be done to make these ' fans ' come around to the mind set that you cant tell people that you are proud to be from Edinburgh ( and who wouldn't be ) and at the same time support clubs who have nothing to do with Edinburgh, or worse support the two clubs who consistantly prevent any chance of Hibs or the other lot ever bringing footballing pride to what is after all their city.

Perhaps a big banner at all OF games at ER with.

" Proud to be from Edinburgh "
" Proud to support our local club " !!!
" Be a real fan, not a glory hunter "

Lucius Apuleius
30-11-2010, 04:42 PM
There have been a lot of threads over the last few months about getting fans back to ER but on that note there is something else that needs sorted.

There are a number of examples in sport where support for the local team is total even though they might not be very good.

An example would be Newcastle Utd ... Not very many Geordie Reds going about.

At what point did Edinburgh football lose that sort of community feeling and I am talking about Hibs and the Yams here.

I would guess that for every person who goes to ER or the other place on a Saturday there is an Edinburgh ' football fan ' who either goes to see the OF or would rather watch the OF or EPL on SKY and ESPN than actually go along to support their local club.

What ( if anything ) can be done to make these ' fans ' come around to the mind set that you cant tell people that you are proud to be from Edinburgh ( and who wouldn't be ) and at the same time support clubs who have nothing to do with Edinburgh, or worse support the two clubs who consistantly prevent any chance of Hibs or the other lot ever bringing footballing pride to what is after all their city.

Perhaps a big banner at all OF games at ER with.

" Proud to be from Edinburgh "
" Proud to support our local club " !!!
" Be a real fan, not a glory hunter "

Good question. Maybe the third line says it all? When we were founded nobody loved us, yet we went through to Glasgow and had the support of all the Glasgow Irish even after celtc were founded. All in all, and without going to dive into my books, according to Alan Lugton we were indirectly responsible for the founding of around 80 teams. I reckon people from these areas all had a wee soft spot for us. How did it all go Pete Tong and everybody went through West? Damn good question mate.

I reckon the best example of total support is American College Football. Most Septics I know actually love their college teams more than a NFL team.

LeithBoozy
30-11-2010, 05:42 PM
No one will convince me otherwise, If Hibs were to win the league or SC you would need the ground full signs at ER. It's a sad fact of live Bovril that as well as attracting back lapsed Hibbys, we would also get our fair share of glory-hunters as well. :agree:

TheEastTerrace
30-11-2010, 06:22 PM
There have been a lot of threads over the last few months about getting fans back to ER but on that note there is something else that needs sorted.

There are a number of examples in sport where support for the local team is total even though they might not be very good.

An example would be Newcastle Utd ... Not very many Geordie Reds going about.

At what point did Edinburgh football lose that sort of community feeling and I am talking about Hibs and the Yams here.

I would guess that for every person who goes to ER or the other place on a Saturday there is an Edinburgh ' football fan ' who either goes to see the OF or would rather watch the OF or EPL on SKY and ESPN than actually go along to support their local club.

What ( if anything ) can be done to make these ' fans ' come around to the mind set that you cant tell people that you are proud to be from Edinburgh ( and who wouldn't be ) and at the same time support clubs who have nothing to do with Edinburgh, or worse support the two clubs who consistantly prevent any chance of Hibs or the other lot ever bringing footballing pride to what is after all their city.

Perhaps a big banner at all OF games at ER with.

" Proud to be from Edinburgh "
" Proud to support our local club " !!!
" Be a real fan, not a glory hunter "

One of the answers lies in your post. There are now many means and ways to consume football that doesn't involve going to the stadium. Pay per view and internet streaming has made watching football almost a daily possibility, even multiple matches per day. In terms of value for money, these options are streets ahead of the SPL, and cost less than EPL games. In times where money is very tight, £30 for Sky Sports per month is the same cost for one ticket at ER for a CAT A game + bf. Football clubs made their bed when they upped the ticket prices way above inflation and now it's coming to bite those clubs in countries where the standard of football is poor. I don't feel guilty about it either. I still support Hibs but sorry, it's going to take more than being 'part of the family' to make me attend.

IMO people can also be football fans without entering the stadium and I remember reading an article in FourFourTwo about a group of Arsenal fans who cannot afford the Emirates, that meet up to watch the games on Sky/ESPN together. That is fandom too, surely? They are passionate and care about their club, no? They have been priced out, so it's not their fault, is it?

The growth of online communities is becoming a huge consideration now. I work in sports PR and communications, and am wanting to learn more about fan engagement and building relationships with different 'types' of fans. Look at what Man City do with their website and social media to involve all supporters in the club's activities - it is fantastic way to foster support for the club. Liverpool are good too. Another great example of fandom in online communities is Indianapolis Colts in the States, where they have dedicated fans site just for them to interact, post photos, talk about the sport, and anything else. It means that support for the club can extend beyond going to the football.

I know these teams have a lot of money to pour into these activities, but it's the principle what matters - they are embracing the changing trend of fandom i.e. that supporters wanting to engage with the club they support can be more than just turning up on matchdays at the stadium. It doesn't replace the live experience for sure but it can go some way to making people still feel part of things.

I don't have the money to go and watch Hibs at ER week in, week out. But I don't see the club trying to involve me in any other way.

Phil D. Rolls
30-11-2010, 07:23 PM
Pat Stanton reckoned it was in the 60s that buses first left Edinburgh on a regular basis to go to see the OF. (In The Quiet Man).

There might be something in that, as before then away supporters outside cup ties was a rarity. People worked a Saturday morning.

Vini1875
30-11-2010, 07:43 PM
I think there would be very very few cities in The UK that did not have fans who left to watch the teams that won the most.

NAE NOOKIE
01-12-2010, 10:13 AM
I think there would be very very few cities in The UK that did not have fans who left to watch the teams that won the most.

I agree with you ( see OP ) but what my point was is how can we minimise that sort of thing. It can be done, as Newcastle and a few other clubs have proved.

Newcastle have won even less than Hibs over the last 50 years and yet the city and surrounding area still have the attitude that to support anybody other than Newcastle Utd makes you disloyal not only to the club, but more importantly to the community from which it draws it's support.

I am aware from other posters on this subject that perhaps local loyalty is not as important, or even relevent, in this modern age of mass TV coverage and easy travel. But why should that be the case? Was it not communities identifying with their local club and vice versa that brought about the game as we now know it.

Apart from the usual songs we Hibbys also sing about Sinshine on Leith. The Yams have the Gorgie Boys. Not so much songs about the clubs, but rather the communities from which they draw the majority of their support.

I would love to see us back to the time where if you were born in the Lothians or The Borders that the natural thing is to support an Edinburgh club rather than the OF or Man Utd, Chelsea etc.

Call me an auld romantic if you like, but I am proud that I was born in Edinburgh and for a time lived in Leith and from a personal point of view I genuinely feel that as a football fan to not support one of my local clubs would be disloyal to the city I am so proud of.

NAE NOOKIE
01-12-2010, 10:23 AM
One of the answers lies in your post. There are now many means and ways to consume football that doesn't involve going to the stadium. Pay per view and internet streaming has made watching football almost a daily possibility, even multiple matches per day. In terms of value for money, these options are streets ahead of the SPL, and cost less than EPL games. In times where money is very tight, £30 for Sky Sports per month is the same cost for one ticket at ER for a CAT A game + bf. Football clubs made their bed when they upped the ticket prices way above inflation and now it's coming to bite those clubs in countries where the standard of football is poor. I don't feel guilty about it either. I still support Hibs but sorry, it's going to take more than being 'part of the family' to make me attend.

IMO people can also be football fans without entering the stadium and I remember reading an article in FourFourTwo about a group of Arsenal fans who cannot afford the Emirates, that meet up to watch the games on Sky/ESPN together. That is fandom too, surely? They are passionate and care about their club, no? They have been priced out, so it's not their fault, is it?

The growth of online communities is becoming a huge consideration now. I work in sports PR and communications, and am wanting to learn more about fan engagement and building relationships with different 'types' of fans. Look at what Man City do with their website and social media to involve all supporters in the club's activities - it is fantastic way to foster support for the club. Liverpool are good too. Another great example of fandom in online communities is Indianapolis Colts in the States, where they have dedicated fans site just for them to interact, post photos, talk about the sport, and anything else. It means that support for the club can extend beyond going to the football.

I know these teams have a lot of money to pour into these activities, but it's the principle what matters - they are embracing the changing trend of fandom i.e. that supporters wanting to engage with the club they support can be more than just turning up on matchdays at the stadium. It doesn't replace the live experience for sure but it can go some way to making people still feel part of things.

I don't have the money to go and watch Hibs at ER week in, week out. But I don't see the club trying to involve me in any other way.

I dont actually disagree with that.

The point I am trying to make is that I would like to see people support their local teams. If you cant afford to go to actual games or just feel its too expensive then that is a different thing, at least you are still a Hibby and I dare say would be inclined to go to see them in important matches, cup semis and finals etc.

As I have posted many times, if you can only afford to go to one game a season and you go to that game you are still as good a Hibby as any season ticket holder.

Antifa Hibs
01-12-2010, 11:11 AM
It's only going to get worse IMO.

Are Hibs and Hearts to blame? Perhaps a wee bit, aye. Unless you go with a dad, brother or uncle to the fitba as a bairn, its very rare as a kid you will choose an 'average' team, as a kid, your gonna pick the team thats on the box all the time, pick the team that you hear and read adverts in the mags, on the radio. You could walk across the Bridges, down the mound, along princess street and along George street, via lothian road and the mile and you wouldn't know there is two fitba teams in Edinburgh, no shops, no adverts, no flyers, hee-haw.

Another thing unfortunately for us is the distance, you can be in Glasgow from Edinburgh in under 50 minutes. We're just along the road from them. I bet there are by far more gloryhunting OF fans in Embra than there is in Aberdeen. Similar thing to Newcastle. Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool is over 150 miles away, but I bet you'll see hundreds of Liverpool/Man U strips in towns/cities like Blackpool, Preston, Stockport.

Instead of people going West, kids (and adults!) are constantly getting the premier league and sky sports rammed down their throats, so they now become a chelsea or arsenal 'fan'. *** annoys me when someone in work or in the pub refers to a premier league team as 'we', yet the ****s couldn't name a Hibs or Hearts player if they tried.

Not much we can do to change that. Pricing a bit steep maybe? Fitba on show is pish thats for sure. £22 to watch Hibs v St Johnstone like last week (utter ******) or £25 per month for your sports subscriptions and get to watch matches like Barca v Madrid, Arsenal v Spurs etc. No brainer for some i'd imagine. TBH some Hibbys are just as bad, i've seen people on here use the excuse that such and such v them are on Sky **** Hibs... poor.

So in summary, **** sky sports!

Sir David Gray
01-12-2010, 11:20 AM
It's only going to get worse IMO.

Are Hibs and Hearts to blame? Perhaps a wee bit, aye. Unless you go with a dad, brother or uncle to the fitba as a bairn, its very rare as a kid you will choose an 'average' team, as a kid, your gonna pick the team thats on the box all the time, pick the team that you hear and read adverts in the mags, on the radio. You could walk across the Bridges, down the mound, along princess street and along George street, via lothian road and the mile and you wouldn't know there is two fitba teams in Edinburgh, no shops, no adverts, no flyers, hee-haw.

Another thing unfortunately for us is the distance, you can be in Glasgow from Edinburgh in under 50 minutes. We're just along the road from them. I bet there are by far more gloryhunting OF fans in Embra than there is in Aberdeen. Similar thing to Newcastle. Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool is over 150 miles away, but I bet you'll see hundreds of Liverpool/Man U strips in towns/cities like Blackpool, Preston, Stockport.

Instead of people going West, kids (and adults!) are constantly getting the premier league and sky sports rammed down their throats, so they now become a chelsea or arsenal 'fan'. *** annoys me when someone in work or in the pub refers to a premier league team as 'we', yet the ****s couldn't name a Hibs or Hearts player if they tried.

Not much we can do to change that. Pricing a bit steep maybe? Fitba on show is pish thats for sure. £22 to watch Hibs v St Johnstone like last week (utter ******) or £25 per month for your sports subscriptions and get to watch matches like Barca v Madrid, Arsenal v Spurs etc. No brainer for some i'd imagine.

So in summary, **** sky sports!

Not sure if that's correct to be honest. When I went up to Inverness a couple of years ago for a few days, all I saw going about their shopping centre were people in Rangers tops. There were literally dozens of them and, no, Rangers weren't playing in Inverness that day. :wink:

NAE NOOKIE
01-12-2010, 11:43 AM
It's only going to get worse IMO.

Are Hibs and Hearts to blame? Perhaps a wee bit, aye. Unless you go with a dad, brother or uncle to the fitba as a bairn, its very rare as a kid you will choose an 'average' team, as a kid, your gonna pick the team thats on the box all the time, pick the team that you hear and read adverts in the mags, on the radio. You could walk across the Bridges, down the mound, along princess street and along George street, via lothian road and the mile and you wouldn't know there is two fitba teams in Edinburgh, no shops, no adverts, no flyers, hee-haw.

Another thing unfortunately for us is the distance, you can be in Glasgow from Edinburgh in under 50 minutes. We're just along the road from them. I bet there are by far more gloryhunting OF fans in Embra than there is in Aberdeen. Similar thing to Newcastle. Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool is over 150 miles away, but I bet you'll see hundreds of Liverpool/Man U strips in towns/cities like Blackpool, Preston, Stockport.

Instead of people going West, kids (and adults!) are constantly getting the premier league and sky sports rammed down their throats, so they now become a chelsea or arsenal 'fan'. *** annoys me when someone in work or in the pub refers to a premier league team as 'we', yet the ****s couldn't name a Hibs or Hearts player if they tried.

Not much we can do to change that. Pricing a bit steep maybe? Fitba on show is pish thats for sure. £22 to watch Hibs v St Johnstone like last week (utter ******) or £25 per month for your sports subscriptions and get to watch matches like Barca v Madrid, Arsenal v Spurs etc. No brainer for some i'd imagine. TBH some Hibbys are just as bad, i've seen people on here use the excuse that such and such v them are on Sky **** Hibs... poor.

So in summary, **** sky sports!

Its all true :boo hoo:

Sky will kill fitba as we know it.

I can see it now. There will be 40 clubs in Europe and the TV will beam the matches live to the whole continent with a CGI crowd to make it look like there is 70,000 at every game, which in reality are played in front of a TV crew.

Supporters club branches will be called things like 'Barcelona ( SKY ) Edinburgh branch' and an away game will be if your branch decides to meet up to watch the match at a different pub from the usual one.

On that thought.

Most Scots subscribe to SKY coz of English & Spanish football. As an association the SFA have the power to stop transmission of matches in Scotland if it is likely to affect crowds at our matches.

In reality they could block transmission of Man Utd v Real Madrid in the Champions league if it clashed with Morton v Airdrie in a Scottish Cup replay.

Perhaps we could squeeze more money out of SKY at the next deal by letting SKY know that if they dont up the cash available to us we will block transmission of EPL matches to Scotland. Lets face it, who in Scotland would subscrive to SKY sports if there was no English / Spanish football on it.

If I was in charge I would do it in a bloody second :greengrin

Part/Time Supporter
01-12-2010, 12:02 PM
Its all true :boo hoo:

Sky will kill fitba as we know it.

I can see it now. There will be 40 clubs in Europe and the TV will beam the matches live to the whole continent with a CGI crowd to make it look like there is 70,000 at every game, which in reality are played in front of a TV crew.

Supporters club branches will be called things like 'Barcelona ( SKY ) Edinburgh branch' and an away game will be if your branch decides to meet up to watch the match at a different pub from the usual one.

On that thought.

Most Scots subscribe to SKY coz of English & Spanish football. As an association the SFA have the power to stop transmission of matches in Scotland if it is likely to affect crowds at our matches.

In reality they could block transmission of Man Utd v Real Madrid in the Champions league if it clashed with Morton v Airdrie in a Scottish Cup replay.

Perhaps we could squeeze more money out of SKY at the next deal by letting SKY know that if they dont up the cash available to us we will block transmission of EPL matches to Scotland. Lets face it, who in Scotland would subscrive to SKY sports if there was no English / Spanish football on it.

If I was in charge I would do it in a bloody second :greengrin

A variation of that is done in America. NFL games are not allowed to be televised in the local media market if the game is not a sellout.

LancashireHibby
01-12-2010, 12:06 PM
Although the "Pub United" effect as I call it is becoming more and more of a problem, I still think there is no substitute for being at a live game and, as mentioned above, you could walk through the centre of Edinburgh without knowing there are two football clubs in the city - a lot of work to be done.

It could even be an idea to get something of reference up at Calton Hill? It was crawling with tourists when I walked up there in August when I was up for the Maribor game and you could get a clear view of ER (great for a desktop wallpaper) and indeed that view was why I first started supporting Hibs, yet there's no reference to it on the maps of the views etc.

fatbloke
01-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Pat Stanton reckoned it was in the 60s that buses first left Edinburgh on a regular basis to go to see the OF. (In The Quiet Man).

There might be something in that, as before then away supporters outside cup ties was a rarity. People worked a Saturday morning.

As a kid I was brought up in Wallyford. In the very early 60's overspill from the Weege arrived and it seemed the only top they possessed were either Rangers or Celtic tops and I am talkin men in there 50's upwards. They seemed to wear them constantly. I reckon Stanton is right it was a product of the overspill and the religious halfwits who saw it as their duty to attend at Darkheid and Castle Greyskull who started it.

Sunny1875
01-12-2010, 04:30 PM
Pat Stanton reckoned it was in the 60s that buses first left Edinburgh on a regular basis to go to see the OF. (In The Quiet Man).

There might be something in that, as before then away supporters outside cup ties was a rarity. People worked a Saturday morning.

Coming over all celtic here but I blame Henry Ford and OPEC ..... the conspiracy of cheap cars and cheap fuel