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bighairyfaeleith
08-11-2010, 08:54 AM
Was thinking this morning that this time last year we were getting good results and flying high. In terms of the playing squad what has changed?

What occurred to me was that Mcbride and Miller where doing well together in midfield up until Mcbdrides foot injury. Zemmama also was having some good performances if I recall correctly.

So what has happened to our midfield and why has it basically failed to turn up to pretty much every game since last Jan/Feb?

We have only lost stokes from the squad last year but we look terrible, the performance yesterday was probably the worst I have seen from us in a derby.

Hiber-nation
08-11-2010, 10:25 AM
Was thinking this morning that this time last year we were getting good results and flying high. In terms of the playing squad what has changed?

What occurred to me was that Mcbride and Miller where doing well together in midfield up until Mcbdrides foot injury. Zemmama also was having some good performances if I recall correctly.

So what has happened to our midfield and why has it basically failed to turn up to pretty much every game since last Jan/Feb?

We have only lost stokes from the squad last year but we look terrible, the performance yesterday was probably the worst I have seen from us in a derby.

Zemmama and Stokes are probably the key factors plus the fact that when the going got tough it really showed up the amount of bottle merchants we have in the squad.

Franck is God
08-11-2010, 01:54 PM
I think it goes back to when Bamba went to the African Nations tournament. We had quite a settled side up until that point.

Hanlon stepped in for him, did very well and when Bamba came back rather than simply pick which player he wanted he tried to shoehorn a back four together which saw the disaster happen in Perth and we were never the same again.

Being a manager is not easy but that is what they are paid to do, he had a difficult decision to make and tried to skirt round it. I was/am a big fan of Yogi but to me that was his biggest problem he struggled to make tough decisions to drop/leave out players for the sake of the team performance. The Stokes/Riordan/Nish issue was exactly the same, realistically we should have been playing a 4-4-2 with two out of the three playing every week and having a proper midfield 4 on the pitch to supply them but he insisted on playing all three in most games which simply weakened the midfield and actually hindered the number of chances we made.

I hope Calderwood is a bit stronger in that respect but seeing the changes he has already made to his team picks since his first in charge and the way he got Rankin off the pitch at half time yesterday leads me to think he'll work it out pretty quickly.

erskine-hibby
08-11-2010, 02:21 PM
Nothing changed and that was the problem.
Even though we got results in the first half of last season we were far from convincing. From the end of January onwards it was clear to see that we were going to struggle to get anything out of the season. Luckily we managed to scrape into 4th spot, which was a stay of execution for Yogi, and because of that we started with, more or less, the same squad and tactics (???) that we were deploying last season. To me it was clear that we were going to struggle though I admit even I could not forsee how badly that would be.
We now have a new manager, but the same set of players. Players that will need time to adapt to the new bosses way of thinking...not an easy thing. We will IMHO struggle throughout this season, but I hope that CC can at least keep us up so as to put into effect any plans he has from the start of next season. I say next season because I cannot see us getting rid of many players in January as pickings will be slim for replacements.
Doesn't sound good but I feel survival is the best we can hope for this season.

killie-hibby
08-11-2010, 03:49 PM
Was thinking this morning that this time last year we were getting good results and flying high. In terms of the playing squad what has changed?

What occurred to me was that Mcbride and Miller where doing well together in midfield up until Mcbdrides foot injury. Zemmama also was having some good performances if I recall correctly.

So what has happened to our midfield and why has it basically failed to turn up to pretty much every game since last Jan/Feb?

We have only lost stokes from the squad last year but we look terrible, the performance yesterday was probably the worst I have seen from us in a derby.


Change started soon after JC's departure. Established first team players considered RP as the real boss. They believed he condoned their behaviour of alcohol abuse and nutritionally poor food intake.Therefore not requiring to live as athletes. Since then alcohol consumption has increased,causing short term memory loss and poor decision making as has been evident during every match played.Commitment to fitness training is non existant. They think only of themselves,not the club or the 11000 mugs who regularly turn up to pay their wages. Being that one yard slower than every other team in the league is OK because at ten to five every Saturday they heard Mixu say "the boys were fantastic", then John stating "Im proud,you gave your all".
If we keep this lot on the field relegation is certain. By filling the team with youngsters as from Wednesday our results will be no worse. At least we will get guys playing for us and the jersey. On January 1st have a major clear out. Use the money saved to bring in 3 or 4 hardened PROFESSIONALS from the championship or on loan. CC will have a want list. Of the current squad those remaining should have zero alcohol clause on their contracts. I would not worry if he got rid of everyone excepting Brown,Hanlon,Wotherspoon and Murray.
I hope CC's appointment is the catalyst for constructive change at Easter Road.:pray:

ahibby
08-11-2010, 03:52 PM
Zemama in my opinion is our best midfield player and Stokes our best scorer. That should be a big enough change to cause us problems. Of course it is compounded by others who have stopped playing because they aren't in as good a side as they were then and so on.

sesoim
08-11-2010, 09:19 PM
Agree with most people here - Stokes won us games we would otherwise have lost. Zemmama may be inconstistent, but he creates chances and is a real dangerman when fit. And Bamba leaving for Africa disrupted the defence, and his attiude has stunk ever since.

Also, tactics wise, we got found out and Hughes didn't have a decent Plan B. And then nerves set in once the bad run started.

sesoim
08-11-2010, 09:29 PM
Zemmama and Stokes are probably the key factors plus the fact that when the going got tough it really showed up the amount of bottle merchants we have in the squad.


It's similar to 2001. As Latapy and Sauzee dropped out the side, the team's form collapsed. Overrated (and overpaid) players like John O'Neill were exposed as being very average. Cult heroes like Jack were shown up to be mediocre without class players beside them.

This is where I come back to the idea that if we have, say, £70k a week to spend on players wages, rather than have 25 average joes, why not sign a smaller group of better quality players and bring in a batch of youngsters to make up the squad? Hopefully CC will be thinking the same thing.

Bonnyrigg H.F.C
08-11-2010, 09:53 PM
Getting pumped 4-1 from the Huns at Easter Road happened. If we had won that game we would have went level with them. We crumbled as soon as they scored something that has happened quite a few times after. Fair enough we went on to beat Celtic a month later but I don't think we ever got over that one. It was like we got put in our place that day and all the confidence we had disappeared. Other teams figured us out after that and we realized we weren't as good as we thought which is the main problem, to many of them just aren't that good. Some poor players with a poorer mentality.

RIP
08-11-2010, 10:21 PM
Change started soon after JC's departure. Established first team players considered RP as the real boss. They believed he condoned their behaviour of alcohol abuse and nutritionally poor food intake.Therefore not requiring to live as athletes. Since then alcohol consumption has increased,causing short term memory loss and poor decision making as has been evident during every match played.Commitment to fitness training is non existant. They think only of themselves,not the club or the 11000 mugs who regularly turn up to pay their wages. Being that one yard slower than every other team in the league is OK because at ten to five every Saturday they heard Mixu say "the boys were fantastic", then John stating "Im proud,you gave your all".
If we keep this lot on the field relegation is certain. By filling the team with youngsters as from Wednesday our results will be no worse. At least we will get guys playing for us and the jersey. On January 1st have a major clear out. Use the money saved to bring in 3 or 4 hardened PROFESSIONALS from the championship or on loan. CC will have a want list. Of the current squad those remaining should have zero alcohol clause on their contracts. I would not worry if he got rid of everyone excepting Brown,Hanlon,Wotherspoon and Murray.
I hope CC's appointment is the catalyst for constructive change at Easter Road.:pray:

I see this comment more and more on these boards - in one guise or another. We have taken a long time to wake up and smell the coffee

Since JC I've been of the opinion that no manager will ever be successful at Hibs as long as Rod continues to combine the Chief Accountant role with that of Director of Football

Alfred E Newman
08-11-2010, 10:29 PM
Agree with most people here - Stokes won us games we would otherwise have lost. Zemmama may be inconstistent, but he creates chances and is a real dangerman when fit. And Bamba leaving for Africa disrupted the defence, and his attiude has stunk ever since.

Also, tactics wise, we got found out and Hughes didn't have a decent Plan B. And then nerves set in once the bad run started.

As Jeffries said after the game yesterday, if you stop Miller playing the game`s as good as won. As soon as other managers sussed this last season we hardly won another game yet Yogi persevered with the same tactics week in week out .

Phil D. Rolls
09-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Change started soon after JC's departure. Established first team players considered RP as the real boss. They believed he condoned their behaviour of alcohol abuse and nutritionally poor food intake.Therefore not requiring to live as athletes. Since then alcohol consumption has increased,causing short term memory loss and poor decision making as has been evident during every match played.Commitment to fitness training is non existant. They think only of themselves,not the club or the 11000 mugs who regularly turn up to pay their wages. Being that one yard slower than every other team in the league is OK because at ten to five every Saturday they heard Mixu say "the boys were fantastic", then John stating "Im proud,you gave your all".
If we keep this lot on the field relegation is certain. By filling the team with youngsters as from Wednesday our results will be no worse. At least we will get guys playing for us and the jersey. On January 1st have a major clear out. Use the money saved to bring in 3 or 4 hardened PROFESSIONALS from the championship or on loan. CC will have a want list. Of the current squad those remaining should have zero alcohol clause on their contracts. I would not worry if he got rid of everyone excepting Brown,Hanlon,Wotherspoon and Murray.
I hope CC's appointment is the catalyst for constructive change at Easter Road.:pray:

You certainly have the inside track on what's going on at ER.:greengrin

Personally, I find it hard to believe that they are consuming so much booze it is affecting their memory and decision making. I sometimes think there is too much play on that aspect.

Besides, I would be more inclined to suggest that their drinking was depressing them and that is causing a lack of confidence. Really though it would just be speculation.

Phil D. Rolls
09-11-2010, 11:39 AM
I see this comment more and more on these boards - in one guise or another. We have taken a long time to wake up and smell the coffee

Since JC I've been of the opinion that no manager will ever be successful at Hibs as long as Rod continues to combine the Chief Accountant role with that of Director of Football

What do you base that opinion on?

Andy74
09-11-2010, 01:30 PM
A few things:

Zemmama was the key player for us and got injured.
McBride was probably next most important during that run and got injured.
Bamba went away breaking up a defence which had been doing very well.
We had a shocking winter and pitches were awful.
Easter Road was one of the worst.
We like nice footballers and weren't equipped for a different game on poor pitches.
We ripped out the East - the area that drove the team on at home.
Wotherspoon and Hanlon were always going to have consistency problems.
Key players like Miller and Stokes hadn't played a full season in years if at all.

Once all that adds up you get on a run and confidence then becomes the big issue and you get the fans off side as well.

This year we looked back on form against Motherwell, played fine at home to Rangers and should have taken something then had a shocker at St Mirren. This was on transfer deadline weekend and was the real killer for us.

Then we sold Stokes, Duffy gets injured, confidence gets worse, still no zemmama, fans get even further offside.


What we can surely now see is that it wasn't the wee formation or tactics things or not playing Galbraith that were the main issues.

The team needed refreshed and still does, we need different characters and we've just asked someone else to do that job down the line now.

Caroline Hibby
09-11-2010, 02:38 PM
Nothing changed and that was the problem.
Even though we got results in the first half of last season we were far from convincing. From the end of January onwards it was clear to see that we were going to struggle to get anything out of the season. Luckily we managed to scrape into 4th spot, which was a stay of execution for Yogi, and because of that we started with, more or less, the same squad and tactics (???) that we were deploying last season. To me it was clear that we were going to struggle though I admit even I could not forsee how badly that would be.
We now have a new manager, but the same set of players. Players that will need time to adapt to the new bosses way of thinking...not an easy thing. We will IMHO struggle throughout this season, but I hope that CC can at least keep us up so as to put into effect any plans he has from the start of next season. I say next season because I cannot see us getting rid of many players in January as pickings will be slim for replacements.
Doesn't sound good but I feel survival is the best we can hope for this season.

That's the truth. We won lucky at the start of last season and got what we deserved after Xmas. FGS we were lucky not to be down 2-0 at home to Irvine Meadow! This team (apart from new signings) has had it's chance. CC has his hands tied at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised if he promotes some youngsters soon, but would like to see Dickho/Stephens given a chance too. We need guys that want to play as a team and that rules out Zemama who, like Benji, are only in it for themselves, as was Stokes.

Andy74
09-11-2010, 02:56 PM
That's the truth. We won lucky at the start of last season and got what we deserved after Xmas. FGS we were lucky not to be down 2-0 at home to Irvine Meadow! This team (apart from new signings) has had it's chance. CC has his hands tied at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised if he promotes some youngsters soon, but would like to see Dickho/Stephens given a chance too. We need guys that want to play as a team and that rules out Zemama who, like Benji, are only in it for themselves, as was Stokes.

Sorry, I'm not having the fact you can be lucky for 7 months. We were there on merit and we then deserved to slip down the table because we couldn't continue it.

In the same way missing open goals and missing penalties this season could be construed as unlucky but I bet you wouldn't be having that. You either score or you don't I guess and if the opposition score when you don't they deserve to win.

bighairyfaeleith
09-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Have to say I think I agree most with Andy74, I think zemmama has been a huge loss just because we have no one like him, so even if he comes on as a sub he offers something totally different.

I also think mcbride is a shadow of the player that started last season and without him at full force miller has just hidden.