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View Full Version : Petrie has got to take his share of the blame



hibees53
02-10-2010, 05:33 PM
For continually going after the cheap options for managers,at the time Hughes was appointed a lot of supporters like myself cast doubts on his abilities but were shouted down as Jambos,now his lack of management skills are there for all to see

TheEastTerrace
02-10-2010, 05:34 PM
Posted this on another thread

Perhaps it should read, when we replace Yogi, please don't let the board make the choice. They are not football men. Get someone who knows something about football to advise on a replacement and not go for the cheap, seemingly popular, option ala Mixu/Hughes/Franck too. Aside from Alex McLeish and Mowbray, the board's appointments have been nothing short of dismal.

mcaitchi
02-10-2010, 05:36 PM
For continually going after the cheap options for managers,at the time Hughes was appointed a lot of supporters like myself cast doubts on his abilities but were shouted down as Jambos,now his lack of management skills are there for all to see

The Next Manager - Has to have EXPERIENCE !!!! :agree:

oregonhibby
02-10-2010, 05:42 PM
The problem might be the lack of quality applicants given they have an average shelf (doh) life of 18 months.

Albion Hibs
02-10-2010, 05:52 PM
The problem might be the lack of quality applicants given they have an average shelve life of 18 months.


Agreed, stuggle to see why an experienced manager would come to Hibs.

Petrie and board have to take there share of the blame for selling our best striker on the last day of the transfer window. Dancing to celtics tune and leaving us no time to replace what we lost. Poor business which is not what I would expect from RP.

calumb
02-10-2010, 06:00 PM
The Next Manager - Has to have EXPERIENCE !!!! :agree:

Hughes does have plenty of experience as a spl manager, it appears though he has learnt absolutely nothing from any of it. :taxi:taxi

Andy74
02-10-2010, 06:02 PM
I think we have appointed people for the right reasons but there are no guarantees. This is a tough old job with expectations on results and style of play.

The criteria some people are suggesting now would still get us a Bobby Williamson!

Cropley10
02-10-2010, 06:08 PM
I think we have appointed people for the right reasons but there are no guarantees. This is a tough old job with expectations on results and style of play.

The criteria some people are suggesting now would still get us a Bobby Williamson!

So RP is completely blameless is he?

In what other business would you - as Chairman - get away with a hiring policy that has seen his last three appointments turn out the way they have?

There are serious problems at ER from the top down. To think otherwise is delusional. I don't pay for 2 season tickets a year to parade our Report & Accounts down Princes St..

HibsMax
02-10-2010, 06:12 PM
So RP is completely blameless is he?

In what other business would you - as Chairman - get away with a hiring policy that has seen his last three appointments turn out the way they have?

There are serious problems at ER from the top down. To think otherwise is delusional. I don't pay for 2 season tickets a year to parade our Report & Accounts down Princes St..
I agree but without solid finances you may not even have the opportunity to buy the season tickets in the first place.

The business side of the game IS important, it's just not as sexy as the football.........which is not that sexy at the moment anyway.

But as I've said a few times before, I was patient to wait for these things to get done (training facility, etc.). I was prepared to put up with a couple of crappy years. But that time is swiftly coming to an end. It's time to invest in the football team before there is nothing left to invest in.

Hibby 2005
02-10-2010, 06:13 PM
Petrie appointed Collins who won us silverware and with a bit of luck might have brought home the holy grail. Petrie's big mistake was not backing Collins against the player rebelllion as well as giving him less money to spend on players than Mixu and Yogi.

Look at where we are now.

Andy74
02-10-2010, 06:15 PM
The report and accounts point is a bit daft as it's all designed to be for the benefit of the team.

Petrie is not blameless at all but references to cheap options and hibs links aren't fair.

The recent managers got the jobs for solid enough reasons.

It's not easy and we've certainly had hits and misses which included someone with experience with no hibs links being worst of the lot!

Green_one
02-10-2010, 06:18 PM
Needs the Board to fund the manager and some cash for players.

Another cut price job will probably fail again.

Someone outside Scotland would do me. Perhaps someone from the lower English leagues. It needs someone who can pick the team off the floor, as McLeish did.

The problem is, if they react after the Killie game or the Derby its going to be closer to Xmas than now, before we see anyone. We should have dumped him at the end of last season if we wanted a decent transition. Now its just messy.

jdships
02-10-2010, 06:20 PM
The problem might be the lack of quality applicants given they have an average shelve life of 18 months.

:top marks
Makes a lot of sense does your post :thumbsup:

HFC 0-7
02-10-2010, 06:36 PM
Hibs can pay more wages than anyone outside the old firm and hearts, therefore we should be aiming, every year, for 3rd or 4th. We got 4th last season but the writing was very much on the wall half way through the season as to the problems at ER.

The board, IMO, have appointed ex hibees so that, if successful, they are less likely to go looking for the next step straight away, ala Mowbray and McLeish. This IMO is where they have made the mistake as by doing so they have greatly reduced their candidates.

Petrie has to take the blame for the Collins debacle as he clearly gave the power to the players and straight away made Collins job impossible. Collins philosophies were correct and he is the only manager to bring us a trophy in recent years. Then came in Mixu which to me had no real experience and should never got the job. Then came hughes who had experience but at a much smaller team, where expectations were much lower and even at that team never done anything that warranted a step up.

The board are happy to spend money on a training centre in a bid to lure players in and develop existing players. We then spend a lot of money on a new stand which could lure players in because of the arena they would be playing in but most importantly they built it with the thought of extra revenue. Why not spend a little bit extra than normal and get in a good proven manager that can do all of these things, lure players in, develop them and get a good team on the pitch that can fill the stadium every week.

Remember, blame goes upwards. The players dont perform, the manager is under pressure, if the manager is under pressure the people that appointed him should be having a good look at themselves. I have said in previous threads that Hibs board needs someone on it that has a footballing background as the current guys are all business men that deal with profit and loss, and dont like to spend money where something is guaranteed in return, ie a stand.

Green_one
02-10-2010, 06:50 PM
The problem might be the lack of quality applicants given they have an average shelf (doh) life of 18 months.

Not really an exceptional period. I heard today a quote on Sky saying 14 months for the EPL.

A study at Warwick showed just over 1.7 years for English football. A quote was 'With an average of 40 dismissals per season, it means that almost half the clubs in the Premiership and Football League now change their manager every season'

So that is the general environment. Managers understand that or if they do not then they must crack up. NOT a Hibs problem. Stability is rarer.

Kaiser1962
02-10-2010, 07:00 PM
We dont have any money guys. Before we start shouting about "investment" and we have to "speculate to accumulate" nonsense its been tried before, many times and the outcome is always the same. In the absence of an Arab sheik or a Russian oligarch (not Vlad) we can only spend what we've got. We dont need more we just need to use what we have but use it better.

ScottB
02-10-2010, 07:01 PM
This '18 month shelf life' stuff is an irrelevance.

Of the manager's we've sacked, where any of them unwarranted or snap decisions? No. Mixu was not good enough and showed so over a long period. Hughes is showing the same and has done since January. Don't get me wrong, ideally we would look to be keeping managers for around 3 years, but if a guy isn't right (and the last two haven't been) then they need to go, just keeping them around cause you don't want to be seen as a sacking club or something is just daft.

The only thing that would concern me if I was applying for the job is that there is clearly a very broken culture at the club, particularly among the playing squad that desperately needs addressed and the last guy to try and fix that (Collins) found himself isolated and alone with all the power handed over to the players by the Board. That needs to change from Day One under the next guy, a blanket change, a new regime, a new order and anyone who disagrees finds themselves out the door is exactly what I want to see. We have all these fantastic facilities, one of the best training centers in the UK etc etc. It's time for us to actually see some benefit from them.

mcaitchi
02-10-2010, 07:06 PM
I agree but without solid finances you may not even have the opportunity to buy the season tickets in the first place.

The business side of the game IS important, it's just not as sexy as the football.........which is not that sexy at the moment anyway.

But as I've said a few times before, I was patient to wait for these things to get done (training facility, etc.). I was prepared to put up with a couple of crappy years. But that time is swiftly coming to an end. It's time to invest in the football team before there is nothing left to invest in.


We dont have any money guys. Before we start shouting about "investment" and we have to "speculate to accumulate" nonsense its been tried before, many times and the outcome is always the same. In the absence of an Arab sheik or a Russian oligarch (not Vlad) we can only spend what we've got. We dont need more we just need to use what we have but use it better.


INVEST in a Decent Manager to sort the formations and tactics out - and also someone who can help bring the U21s and the likes into the team !!!!

Cropley10
02-10-2010, 07:09 PM
INVEST in a Decent Manager to sort the formations and tactics out - and also someone who can help bring the U21s and the likes into the team !!!!

We don't have any U21s...:confused:

oregonhibby
02-10-2010, 07:15 PM
I beg to differ. Stability is important. Any manager faced with a short potential tenure will fill his team with experience and at our level that means second rate players I am afraid.

As we all call for instant results or the sack - or so it seems - managers will play the safe card and not risk youth. The training centre should be about developing youth - in my view and over the long term brought into the team.

The potential shelf life is important as it is a measure of how the club is run. The balsy decision might be to keep Yogi and supplement with greater experience. It is a tough choice and not one we are being asked to make but the board, who will be slaughtered in any case, will have to make.

Changing the manager means turning over the team when a new manager comes in, all of which costs even more money.

Anyway, who is out there who is not unemployed or who we could afford? I am anticipating we can't afford to do nothing - no, but are there any other options?

Kaiser1962
02-10-2010, 07:15 PM
INVEST in a Decent Manager to sort the formations and tactics out - and also someone who can help bring the U21s and the likes into the team !!!!

In that case, as someone else stated, you end up with Bobby Williamson. Looking around there are not many in our price range apart from Calderwood. perhaps we could spend the entire 100k we made last year on our new man. Who would you suggest?

mcaitchi
02-10-2010, 07:16 PM
We don't have any U21s...:confused:



DID THAT ******* RODNEY _ SELL THEM AS WELL ??? :grr:

Barney McGrew
02-10-2010, 07:20 PM
Changing the manager means turning over the team when a new manager comes in, all of which costs even more money.

Given the number of players in the squad who are out of contract at the end of this season, then there's going to be a massive change in the staff in the summer anyway.

I'm not a great one for changing managers as soon as there's a bad run, but this has developed into far more than that now under Yogi. Any change in manager at this time would give an opportunity for someone new to have the job of steadying the ship just now, with the opportunity to pretty much build from scratch for next season bar a handful of players.

That may be a very attractive carrot to dangle in front of a new man to swing the deal.

Kaiser1962
02-10-2010, 07:22 PM
You beat me to it so I will congratulate you on your intellect in making such a good point.


Given the number of players in the squad who are out of contract at the end of this season, then there's going to be a massive change in the staff in the summer anyway.

I'm not a great one for changing managers as soon as there's a bad run, but this has developed into far more than that now under Yogi. Any change in manager now would give an opportunity for someone new to have the job of steadying the ship just now, with the opportunity to pretty much build from scratch for next season bar a handful of players.

That may be a very attractive carrot to dangle in front of someone to come in.

mcaitchi
02-10-2010, 07:22 PM
I beg to differ. Stability is important. Any manager faced with a short potential tenure will fill his team with experience and at our level that means second rate players I am afraid.

As we all call for instant results or the sack - or so it seems - managers will play the safe card and not risk youth. The training centre should be about developing youth - in my view and over the long term brought into the team.

The potential shelf life is important as it is a measure of how the club is run. The balsy decision might be to keep Yogi and supplement with greater experience. It is a tough choice and not one we are being asked to make but the board, who will be slaughtered in any case, will have to make.

Changing the manager means turning over the team when a new manager comes in, all of which costs even more money.

Anyway, who is out there who is not unemployed or who we could afford? I am anticipating we can't afford to do nothing - no, but are there any other options?


im kinda allright with that idea - bring someone in to help yogi !!!

but - who with experience could we bring in to help yogi :wink: im all for the idea - like a davy hay type old style scottish manager - but !!
and - bet i get slated for that lol - and would yogi work with someone else ?? doubt it ...

E.T. is a Hibee
02-10-2010, 07:23 PM
The Next Manager - Has to have EXPERIENCE !!!! :agree:

Well said. There is quite a few excellent managers out there and around europe that are not household names. Our team I would say is one of the most attractive in Europe and I think that once poor JH is relieved of his post RP will advertise the job he will be swamped!:thumbsup:

Antifa Hibs
02-10-2010, 07:27 PM
The board employed him, they should take the blame, if there's nae cash to get shot of him, i'm sure they could give Hughes some compo out of the 500k they swiped last season.

Hibs are a massive club, no other club in Scotland (even some down south) can take numbers to finals/semi's, away matches etc like what we have when we have been at our best. Who-ever comes in will get the 4th biggest budget in the league, work in the best facilities (stadium and training) outside Glasgow and have the added bonus of living in 2nd best city on this Isle (after London). There must be someone out there who would like the sound of that..? The only thing that worries me is that if/when we do get someone, it will be to put themselves in the shop window for a move down south then we have to start all over again..........

E.T. is a Hibee
02-10-2010, 07:36 PM
The board employed him, they should take the blame, if there's nae cash to get shot of him, i'm sure they could give Hughes some compo out of the 500k they swiped last season.

Hibs are a massive club, no other club in Scotland (even some down south) can take numbers to finals/semi's, away matches etc like what we have when we have been at our best. Who-ever comes in will get the 4th biggest budget in the league, work in the best facilities (stadium and training) outside Glasgow and have the added bonus of living in 2nd best city on this Isle (after London). There must be someone out there who would like the sound of that..? The only thing that worries me is that if/when we do get someone, it will be to put themselves in the shop window for a move down south then we have to start all over again..........

Your right mate, it would be a worry but our team is a crakin team and I would like to think that the type of manager that the board would go for would be a manager from another league in Europe, someone with all the coach badges and good experinance of setting teams up against quality opposition and that has the brains to know that moving to bigger doesn't mean better.

Hopefully JH will do the right thing and the board can appoint a good manger that is fitting for us!

Kaiser1962
02-10-2010, 07:37 PM
If it's advertised then have no fear there will be hundreds of applicants. Just like before...............


The board employed him, they should take the blame, if there's nae cash to get shot of him, i'm sure they could give Hughes some compo out of the 500k they swiped last season.

Hibs are a massive club, no other club in Scotland (even some down south) can take numbers to finals/semi's, away matches etc like what we have when we have been at our best. Who-ever comes in will get the 4th biggest budget in the league, work in the best facilities (stadium and training) outside Glasgow and have the added bonus of living in 2nd best city on this Isle (after London). There must be someone out there who would like the sound of that..? The only thing that worries me is that if/when we do get someone, it will be to put themselves in the shop window for a move down south then we have to start all over again..........

ScottB
02-10-2010, 07:45 PM
I beg to differ. Stability is important. Any manager faced with a short potential tenure will fill his team with experience and at our level that means second rate players I am afraid.

As we all call for instant results or the sack - or so it seems - managers will play the safe card and not risk youth. The training centre should be about developing youth - in my view and over the long term brought into the team.

The potential shelf life is important as it is a measure of how the club is run. The balsy decision might be to keep Yogi and supplement with greater experience. It is a tough choice and not one we are being asked to make but the board, who will be slaughtered in any case, will have to make.

Changing the manager means turning over the team when a new manager comes in, all of which costs even more money.

Anyway, who is out there who is not unemployed or who we could afford? I am anticipating we can't afford to do nothing - no, but are there any other options?

We are hardly demanding instant success, the majority only turned on Yogi at the start of this season, after 6 months of awful results.

Fans aren't stupid, sure there will always be some wanting instant success, but they probably should look elsewhere for that! Our managers aren't 'faced with a short tenure' unless they are hopeless at the job. Hughes has made us into a worse team than when he took over despite significant investment in the playing side, that's the issue at hand.

As for bringing in someone over his head, you may as well just sack him right now such is the effect that would have. Why do some people seem to think this is Hughes' first gig? He's easily the most experienced guy we've had in years. He's certainly been around long enough to be able to recognise the problems and issues with the way he sets the team up, that he doesn't suggests to me that it's simply beyond him or he's too arrogant to admit he's at fault. If it's the former it's a reason to sack him, if it's the latter there's no way he'd listen to a mentor figure parachuted in above him.

Secondly, you'd have Hughes' salary + Hughes' mentor's salary, wouldn't that be better spent on quality manager 'x' whoever that may be?

Oranje39
02-10-2010, 09:30 PM
Petrie appointed Collins who won us silverware and with a bit of luck might have brought home the holy grail. Petrie's big mistake was not backing Collins against the player rebelllion as well as giving him less money to spend on players than Mixu and Yogi.

Look at where we are now.


Totally agree, I think Rod should be embarrassed that he never came out and supported John Collins with the player revolt which really annoyed me and still does. I also think it's ridiculous the amount of money Rod found for Mixu and Yogi but John Collins had pennies to work with in comparison!

When Mixu left, Yogi was the last person who I wanted. Unfortunately the past 12 months have been exactly as I expected with him in charge. He can talk the talk but falls flat on his face when he walks!

Andy74
02-10-2010, 09:44 PM
Totally agree, I think Rod should be embarrassed that he never came out and supported John Collins with the player revolt which really annoyed me and still does. I also think it's ridiculous the amount of money Rod found for Mixu and Yogi but John Collins had pennies to work with in comparison!

When Mixu left, Yogi was the last person who I wanted. Unfortunately the past 12 months have been exactly as I expected with him in charge. He can talk the talk but falls flat on his face when he walks!

Not really true. JC had actual cash to spend in the shape of fees for o'brien and maka.

He was able to bring players in that at the time looked and sounded like they should have been a step up in quality but they weren't.

Let's not get all gooey about JC. His team became more aimless in their passing and and had less fight than anything Hughes has come up with.

Hibby 2005
02-10-2010, 10:05 PM
Not really true. JC had actual cash to spend in the shape of fees for o'brien and maka.

He was able to bring players in that at the time looked and sounded like they should have been a step up in quality but they weren't.

Let's not get all gooey about JC. His team became more aimless in their passing and and had less fight than anything Hughes has come up with.

Hughes's team have fight? God help them then if we get drawn into a relegation battle.