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WellingtonHibby
24-09-2010, 11:42 AM
The Guardian are reporting that Hibs, Yams and the Ugly sisters will be fielding reserve teams in the Scottish Third Divisioon as early as next season?

Has any of the guys "in-the-know" heard about this?

If so, what does everyone think?
Clearly there is a need for reserve football for progression from the Youth Ranks to First Team and it can only benefit scottish football as a whole to have a bigger pool of players involved, but will it be at the expense of some of the smaller clubs?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/17/spl-restructure-old-firm-reserve-teams

LancashireHibby
24-09-2010, 11:46 AM
The Guardian are reporting that Hibs, Yams and the Ugly sisters will be fielding reserve teams in the Scottish Third Divisioon as early as next season?

Has any of the guys "in-the-know" heard about this?

If so, what does everyone think?
Clearly there is a need for reserve football for progression from the Youth Ranks to First Team and it can only benefit scottish football as a whole to have a bigger pool of players involved, but will it be at the expense of some of the smaller clubs?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/17/spl-restructure-old-firm-reserve-teams

The way I read it is that there'd only be half a dozen of current Third Division clubs that would play in this 'new' Third Division so presumably it wouldn't affect too many of them?

As far as I can tell, it'd work as follows;
SPL 1 (14 teams)
SPL 2 (14 teams)
First Division (10 teams)
Second Division (10 teams)
Third Division (10 teams)

So it'd leave a shortfall of four teams compared to the current system, so it'd be ourselves, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen to fill that particular void?

iwasthere1972
24-09-2010, 11:49 AM
The Guardian are reporting that Hibs, Yams and the Ugly sisters will be fielding reserve teams in the Scottish Third Divisioon as early as next season?

Has any of the guys "in-the-know" heard about this?

If so, what does everyone think?
Clearly there is a need for reserve football for progression from the Youth Ranks to First Team and it can only benefit scottish football as a whole to have a bigger pool of players involved, but will it be at the expense of some of the smaller clubs?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/17/spl-restructure-old-firm-reserve-teams

I probably haven't read the article properly but what happens if any of those reserve teams do a Gretna and get promotion to the SPL? Or is it just a case that they always play in the 3rd division regardless if where they finish in the table?

:doh: In advance just in case I'm being a bit thick.

Albion Hibs
24-09-2010, 11:55 AM
I think it is a great idea. Personally not having a reserve league is a farce for me, we could have an entire squad playing and coming up together, rather than individuals being loaned to other teams, that can only be great for Hibs developing young talent, understanding and a better progression from reserve to first team.

In addition it would mean that in the event we needed a loan player back we are not stuck with contract positions that dont allow.

Furthermore it will no doubt help the development of young management. We will need a proper coaching staff for such a team and whilst coming at a cost, you see it all the time down south that reserve managers take a role, IF, the first team managers role on.

Positive news for Scottish football, can someone please make sure this happens.

Green_one
24-09-2010, 11:56 AM
As far as I can tell, it'd work as follows;
SPL 1 (14 teams)
SPL 2 (14 teams)
First Division (10 teams)
Second Division (10 teams)
Third Division (10 teams)

So it'd leave a shortfall of four teams compared to the current system, so it'd be ourselves, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen to fill that particular void?

There are only 42 teams in the leagues at present. The above adds up to 58, so there is probably a league too many shown? You would need 6 reserve teams or new entrants.

BEEJ
24-09-2010, 12:01 PM
There are only 42 teams in the leagues at present. The above adds up to 58, so there is probably a league too many shown? You would need 6 reserve teams or new entrants.
It will probably be:

SPL1 14 teams
SPL2 12 teams
Division 1 10 teams
Division 2 10 teams

That's 46 sides in total, four more than currently.

Boris
24-09-2010, 12:04 PM
I probably haven't read the article properly but what happens if any of those reserve teams do a Gretna and get promotion to the SPL? Or is it just a case that they always play in the 3rd division regardless if where they finish in the table?

:doh: In advance just in case I'm being a bit thick.

Think it would be a case of only a "first team" side could get promoted with any "reserve team" side staying where they were. Long time ago I know but there was a similar situation back in the 1920's when most of the Scottish League sides had their 'A' team (i.e. their reserves) playing in a League called the Scottish Alliance. The Alliance was mostly made up of reserve sides but did include a number of actual clubs, including Leith Athletic, who had drifted between Leagues aftrer being reformed after WWI. They were eventually promoted back into League football after a reorganisation despite finishing only 3rd in the Alliance but the rules were such that the teams finishing 1st & 2nd (Hearts 'A' & Aberdeen 'A') were reserve sides & could not be promoted.

iwasthere1972
24-09-2010, 12:07 PM
Think it would be a case of only a "first team" side could get promoted with any "reserve team" side staying where they were. Long time ago I know but there was a similar situation back in the 1920's when most of the Scottish League sides had their 'A' team (i.e. their reserves) playing in a League called the Scottish Alliance. The Alliance was mostly made up of reserve sides but did include a number of actual clubs, including Leith Athletic, who had drifted between Leagues aftrer being reformed after WWI. They were eventually promoted back into League football after a reorganisation despite finishing only 3rd in the Alliance but the rules were such that the teams finishing 1st & 2nd (Hearts 'A' & Aberdeen 'A') were reserve sides & could not be promoted.

That would make sense. Imagine Hibs playing Hibs reserves. Which team would we boo. At the moment the choice is easy.

Keekaboo
24-09-2010, 12:18 PM
They already play this system in other countries, e.g. Germany, and the rules are that the 'reserve' teams can't get promoted.


TBH, I'm not sure why this is an option and the reserve league isn't. Surely they should just re-instate the reserves :dunno:

davebt
24-09-2010, 12:21 PM
Think it would be a case of only a "first team" side could get promoted with any "reserve team" side staying where they were. Long time ago I know but there was a similar situation back in the 1920's when most of the Scottish League sides had their 'A' team (i.e. their reserves) playing in a League called the Scottish Alliance. The Alliance was mostly made up of reserve sides but did include a number of actual clubs, including Leith Athletic, who had drifted between Leagues aftrer being reformed after WWI. They were eventually promoted back into League football after a reorganisation despite finishing only 3rd in the Alliance but the rules were such that the teams finishing 1st & 2nd (Hearts 'A' & Aberdeen 'A') were reserve sides & could not be promoted.

There was a similar set up in the early 50's when the reserve teams of several clubs played in Division "C" along with teams like Brechin, Leith Athletic & Montrose. Hibs and Hearts also fielded third teams in the East of Scotland League.

Gus
24-09-2010, 12:24 PM
stupid idea imho

Should re-instate the reserve league & introduce a pryamid structure to the set up.

Ie: Promotion and relegation from the third division allowing junior sides to enter if they win promotion

patlowe
24-09-2010, 12:49 PM
As long as the OF/TV companies insist on everyone playing each other 4 times a season, the apathy and disinterest in the SPL will continue. I'm not saying it's the only problem but it sure as hell makes the league boring and that bit harder for anyone else to challenge for.

ScottB
24-09-2010, 01:01 PM
I don't want a 14 team top league particularly, much rather go 16 or 18 and be done with it.

Us and some other clubs fielding 'A' sides makes sense, but I would like to see clubs like Spartan's get a shot at joining the league. Ideally a pyramid structure is needed.

vla_di_vla
24-09-2010, 01:04 PM
Always thought this would be a good idea. Reserve teams in Spain can get as far as the league below and can't meet each other. It would create some much needed funds for lower league clubs with old firm fans(and ours maybe) boosting gate receipts. It would also be a very competitive environment to bring on youngsters

lucky
24-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Always thought this would be a good idea. Reserve teams in Spain can get as far as the league below and can't meet each other. It would create some much needed funds for lower league clubs with old firm fans(and ours maybe) boosting gate receipts. It would also be a very competitive environment to bring on youngsters

What happens when our reserves get promoted and Yogi's huddies get relegated? The only answer is to have a reserve league. Scottish football is a farce.

ScottB
24-09-2010, 03:39 PM
What happens when our reserves get promoted and Yogi's huddies get relegated? The only answer is to have a reserve league. Scottish football is a farce.

The same that would happen in Spain and Germany; the reserve team stay where they were.

If this idea is a farce then I suppose the Spanish set up is too? Don't get me wrong, there's a lot wrong in Scotland, but this is a good idea that has worked elsewhere.

Cocaine&Caviar
24-09-2010, 03:51 PM
For me, a country of our size should have a maximum of 3 three leagues;

16 Team SPL 1
16 Team SPL 2
Scottish First Division 10 + whatever reserve squads.

WindyMiller
24-09-2010, 03:54 PM
The Guardian are reporting that Hibs, Yams and the Ugly sisters will be fielding reserve teams in the Scottish Third Divisioon as early as next season?

Has any of the guys "in-the-know" heard about this?

If so, what does everyone think?
Clearly there is a need for reserve football for progression from the Youth Ranks to First Team and it can only benefit scottish football as a whole to have a bigger pool of players involved, but will it be at the expense of some of the smaller clubs?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/17/spl-restructure-old-firm-reserve-teams

There was a thread on this last week.
Good idea IMO.
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?192826-Hibs-reserve-team-in-the-SFL&p=2579355&highlight=

GreenPJ
24-09-2010, 04:04 PM
For me, a country of our size should have a maximum of 3 three leagues;

16 Team SPL 1
16 Team SPL 2
Scottish First Division 10 + whatever reserve squads.

I agree with a max of 3 divisions although dont really see a value in an SPL 2. If interest is waining in SPL 1 what is the value in having a second lesser (?) one.

I think we also need to realise that having more teams than we currently have is madness. We have too many teams as it is, fan bases are already too small. I am not sure of the answer but think we need to be more radical and ruthless than just allowing SPL teams to have reserve teams in the lower leagues.

tamsonsbairn
25-09-2010, 10:31 AM
What happens when our reserves get promoted and Yogi's huddies get relegated? The only answer is to have a reserve league. Scottish football is a farce.

If I recall, some spl teams couldn't afford to run a first team and a reserve team, someone correct me please if I am wrong.

Bishop Hibee
25-09-2010, 10:42 AM
As a reserve league seems a no-go as some SPL teams can't afford it, this is the best option.

Cocaine&Caviar
25-09-2010, 10:46 AM
I agree with a max of 3 divisions although dont really see a value in an SPL 2. If interest is waining in SPL 1 what is the value in having a second lesser (?) one.



I think its more about the footballing authorities, we as a nation dont need a SFL, SPL and SFA governing bodies, having the lower divisions controlled by the SPL, hoopefully a new governed body with a board with some balls in regards to the OF and the league format, makes life a lot simpler and stops a lot of squabbles.

sambajustice
25-09-2010, 10:59 AM
This is all to do with cash...

Easter Road would be getting used practically every saturday, we'd have the first team and the second team alternating home games each week.

So currently we get what, 12k-14k crowds for first team home games? When the second team are at home we'd maybe get 1k-2k crowds? Means ER is getting used every week, club shop open, gate money coming in etc.

Good idea really, although I think there are too many teams currently and there should be some sort of pyramid structure. Under the current division 3 there should be a "conference" league, then under that a regional set up.

My mate plays in England for what is essentially a decent amateur team but they are in like the 9th tier of english football. They're never going to get to the Football league but there is the opprtunity for them to do it, there's no ceiling on how far they can go. Should be like that here too.

Its down to the knuckle ticklers at Hampden to sort that one out though!

franck sauzee
25-09-2010, 11:07 AM
The same that would happen in Spain and Germany; the reserve team stay where they were.


Sorry thats not correct. If the main team was relegated, the reserve team or B team would also be relegated regardless of position as the 2 teams cannot be in the same division and the reserve team can never be above the main team