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Speedway
23-09-2010, 08:20 AM
Some tenuous links for consideration.

Collins was a lauded ex-Hibee when he got the Hibs Manager's job, so was Hughes.

In his first season, he delivered a major achievement by winning a cup. In his first season Highes delivered a major 'achievement' by delivering European qualifiction without needing the intertutu.

Collins outlined a vision that he had for the club and let the players know what he expected of them, so did Hughes.

The summer saw a second revolt for Collins at the Spanish training camp and him resorting to third and fourth choice signings, Gattheussi, Jonoleit and before that Sowumni (who went on to do a great job at Falkirk) Hughes had various bust ups with players during the summer and was reduced to last minute loan deals despite 12 players being sold/released.

Collins started his second season very well results wise but many voiced concerns over performances and then it went very wrong starting with the 2-4 reverse in the league cup by the Mothers. Hughes never started his second season and got pumped by three by a team managed by someone who according to .net posters was a clueless buffoon, mixup, clown, joke, fat finn. If that was true at all, I'm surprised that he and Hughes didn't come out of the tunnel last night on unicycles, juggling balls.

Nevertheless, penniless Killie still shoved three up us, with an alleged bufoon in charge who wasn't good enough for Hibs. I thought he was supposed to be 'clueless'. He knows how to beat Hibs comfortably doesn't he?

Despite a state of the art training centre opening the previous day that he'd helped design, Collins walked amid suggestions that RP wouldn't find 50k to bring in Hammell to replace Murphy, who wanted away.

Hughes was allowed to bring in Duffy on a loan deal due to a striker being sold on deadline day, who wanted away.

Collins walked, Hughes.............

Are you STILL sure it's mainly the manager's fault?

Twa Cairpets
23-09-2010, 08:24 AM
Some tenuous links for consideration.

Collins was a lauded ex-Hibee when he got the Hibs Manager's job, so was Hughes.

In his first season, he delivered a major achievement by winning a cup. In his first season Highes delivered a major 'achievement' by delivering European qualifiction without needing the intertutu.

Collins outlined a vision that he had for the club and let the players know what he expected of them, so did Hughes.

The summer saw a second revolt for Collins at the Spanish training camp and him resorting to third and fourth choice signings, Gattheussi, Jonoleit and before that Sowumni (who went on to do a great job at Falkirk) Hughes had various bust ups with players during the summer and was reduced to last minute loan deals despite 12 players being sold/released.

Collins started his second season very well results wise but many voiced concerns over performances and then it went very wrong starting with the 2-4 reverse in the league cup by the Mothers. Hughes never started his second season and got pumped by three by a team managed by someone who according to .net posters was a clueless buffoon, mixup, clown, joke, fat finn. If that was true at all, I'm surprised that he and Hughes didn't come out of the tunnel last night on unicycles, juggling balls.

Nevertheless, penniless Killie still shoved three up us, with an alleged bufoon in charge who wasn't good enough for Hibs. I thought he was supposed to be 'clueless'. He knows how to beat Hibs comfortably doesn't he?

Despite a state of the art training centre opening the previous day that he'd helped design, Collins walked amid suggestions that RP wouldn't find 50k to bring in Hammell to replace Murphy, who wanted away.

Hughes was allowed to bring in Duffy on a loan deal due to a striker being sold on deadline day, who wanted away.

Collins walked, Hughes.............

Are you STILL sure it's mainly the manager's fault?

Yes, pretty much

SlickShoes
23-09-2010, 08:37 AM
Some tenuous links for consideration.

Collins was a lauded ex-Hibee when he got the Hibs Manager's job, so was Hughes.

In his first season, he delivered a major achievement by winning a cup. In his first season Highes delivered a major 'achievement' by delivering European qualifiction without needing the intertutu.

Collins outlined a vision that he had for the club and let the players know what he expected of them, so did Hughes.

The summer saw a second revolt for Collins at the Spanish training camp and him resorting to third and fourth choice signings, Gattheussi, Jonoleit and before that Sowumni (who went on to do a great job at Falkirk) Hughes had various bust ups with players during the summer and was reduced to last minute loan deals despite 12 players being sold/released.

Collins started his second season very well results wise but many voiced concerns over performances and then it went very wrong starting with the 2-4 reverse in the league cup by the Mothers. Hughes never started his second season and got pumped by three by a team managed by someone who according to .net posters was a clueless buffoon, mixup, clown, joke, fat finn. If that was true at all, I'm surprised that he and Hughes didn't come out of the tunnel last night on unicycles, juggling balls.

Nevertheless, penniless Killie still shoved three up us, with an alleged bufoon in charge who wasn't good enough for Hibs. I thought he was supposed to be 'clueless'. He knows how to beat Hibs comfortably doesn't he?

Despite a state of the art training centre opening the previous day that he'd helped design, Collins walked amid suggestions that RP wouldn't find 50k to bring in Hammell to replace Murphy, who wanted away.

Hughes was allowed to bring in Duffy on a loan deal due to a striker being sold on deadline day, who wanted away.

Collins walked, Hughes.............

Are you STILL sure it's mainly the manager's fault?

That was a completely different player but i suppose they do both have similar names so they might as well be the same guy.......

Expecting Rain
23-09-2010, 08:44 AM
With Collins i think it was self preservation, he was happy enough with the way things were going when he temporarily had us near the top of the league, when he started to struggle he blamed it on a lack of funds, i thought he behaved in a cowardly fashion with his untimely departure, something you couldn`t accuse him of as a player. Yogi has an abundance of self belief and some pretty good ideas about the game, the problem is he doesn`t seem to understand that communication plays a big part in management and that your ideas are just well.......ideas if you don`t have the personel to promote them, a decent manager would at least bring us organisation and shape, basic pre-requisites for anybody coming in and wanting to move us forward, there`s a lot of positives regarding the club especially off the pitch but where it really matters for the average fan is on the pitch, i think it is hard to lay the blame anywhere else.

Big Frank
23-09-2010, 08:59 AM
Some tenuous links for consideration.

Collins was a lauded ex-Hibee when he got the Hibs Manager's job, so was Hughes.

In his first season, he delivered a major achievement by winning a cup. In his first season Highes delivered a major 'achievement' by delivering European qualifiction without needing the intertutu.

Collins outlined a vision that he had for the club and let the players know what he expected of them, so did Hughes.

The summer saw a second revolt for Collins at the Spanish training camp and him resorting to third and fourth choice signings, Gattheussi, Jonoleit and before that Sowumni (who went on to do a great job at Falkirk) Hughes had various bust ups with players during the summer and was reduced to last minute loan deals despite 12 players being sold/released.

Collins started his second season very well results wise but many voiced concerns over performances and then it went very wrong starting with the 2-4 reverse in the league cup by the Mothers. Hughes never started his second season and got pumped by three by a team managed by someone who according to .net posters was a clueless buffoon, mixup, clown, joke, fat finn. If that was true at all, I'm surprised that he and Hughes didn't come out of the tunnel last night on unicycles, juggling balls.

Nevertheless, penniless Killie still shoved three up us, with an alleged bufoon in charge who wasn't good enough for Hibs. I thought he was supposed to be 'clueless'. He knows how to beat Hibs comfortably doesn't he?

Despite a state of the art training centre opening the previous day that he'd helped design, Collins walked amid suggestions that RP wouldn't find 50k to bring in Hammell to replace Murphy, who wanted away.

Hughes was allowed to bring in Duffy on a loan deal due to a striker being sold on deadline day, who wanted away.

Collins walked, Hughes.............

Are you STILL sure it's mainly the manager's fault?


whats that got to do with ***** performances week in week out?

is the manager not accountable or something?

are you happy with hughes as the face of Hibernian FC?

Can you see his vision (if so you are one of the "football people")

FFS Speedway, I could manage Hibernian, play players out of position, sign desperately, get them to pass squarely back and forth until the opposition get so close then get them to hump it up the park, slag the clubs supporters, fight the players and the press, and do it for 50,000 a year. Save the board a fortune!!!


Aint no way round this but :taxi

It makes me :boo hoo:, but I support and love hibernian fc not hughes.

BEEJ
23-09-2010, 09:15 AM
Some tenuous links for consideration.

Collins outlined a vision that he had for the club and let the players know what he expected of them, so did Hughes.
I'd like to hear Yogi outline that. Not heard any statement from him on that in the same way that JC made his plans clear.


The summer saw a second revolt for Collins at the Spanish training camp and him resorting to third and fourth choice signings, Gattheussi, Jonoleit and before that Sowumni (who went on to do a great job at Falkirk) Hughes had various bust ups with players during the summer and was reduced to last minute loan deals despite 12 players being sold/released.


The Spanish training camp was at the end of February 2007, before the CIS Final.
JC new that he had little or no budget in the summer of 2007 and made it clear that his policy would be to look for "young, talented but inexperienced" players.
Hughes only saw six players leave in the recent summer window.



Nevertheless, penniless Killie still shoved three up us, with an alleged bufoon in charge who wasn't good enough for Hibs. I thought he was supposed to be 'clueless'. He knows how to beat Hibs comfortably doesn't he?

Collins walked, Hughes.............

Are you STILL sure it's mainly the manager's fault?
Serious questions need to be asked of our signing policy when Mixu can assemble a decent looking side at Killie with some flair players on a player budget that will be much smaller than the one he had at Hibs.

That being said, the Manager still carries much of the blame for our appalling run of form. Any half-decent Manager could take an existing squad of players and at least make them difficult to beat (take Liechtenstein as a classic example).

Yes, I'm still sure.

RIP
23-09-2010, 09:22 AM
The problem at Hibs runs far deeper than this years football coach. They wont be resolved until other changes take place

Our 3 accountants are no bad at delivering good financial performances but unfortunately this is a football club

It's incredibly niaive to put 100% of the blame on the past 3 managers

But temptingly easy I suspect

Speedway
23-09-2010, 09:23 AM
whats that got to do with ***** performances week in week out?

The contributory reasons behind them?

is the manager not accountable or something?

When did I say that?

are you happy with hughes as the face of Hibernian FC?

Nope.

Can you see his vision (if so you are one of the "football people")

Yes.

FFS Speedway, I could manage Hibernian, play players out of position, sign desperately, get them to pass squarely back and forth until the opposition get so close then get them to hump it up the park, slag the clubs supporters, fight the players and the press, and do it for 50,000 a year. Save the board a fortune!!!


Aint no way round this but :taxi

It makes me :boo hoo:, but I support and love hibernian fc not hughes.


I'd like to hear Yogi outline that. Not heard any statement from him on that in the same way that JC made his plans clear.




The Spanish training camp was at the end of February 2007, before the CIS Final.
Apologies, I meant the German/Austrian training camp where Whitty came in and told JC he wanted to leave and Jones demanded away.

JC new that he had little or no budget in the summer of 2007 and made it clear that his policy would be to look for "young, talented but inexperienced" players.

Gattheussi and Kerr weren't young or talented were they. AO'B was young....

Hughes only saw six players leave in the recent summer window.


Plus loanees.

Serious questions need to be asked of our signing policy when Mixu can assemble a decent looking side at Killie with some flair players on a player budget that will be much smaller than the one he had at Hibs.

Agreed. I think this is the crux of the matter.

That being said, the Manager still carries much of the blame for our appalling run of form. Any half-decent Manager could take an existing squad of players and at least make them difficult to beat (take Liechtenstein as a classic example).

I agree.

Yes, I'm still sure.

I think the manager is part of a huge bucket of ***** with many different flavours and his is not the strongest one.

BEEJ
23-09-2010, 09:53 AM
I think the manager is part of a huge bucket of ***** with many different flavours and his is not the strongest one.
Are you still weighting "the Manager factor" at just 10% after last night's display?

Departures in the recent summer window:

Anthony Stokes
Yves MaKalambay
Abdesallam Benjelloun
Patrick Cregg
Darren McCormack
Alan Gow

Gow was the only loan signing I knew about.

Just Jimmy
23-09-2010, 10:24 AM
Are you still weighting "the Manager factor" at just 10% after last night's display?

Departures in the recent summer window:

Anthony Stokes
Yves MaKalambay
Abdesallam Benjelloun
Patrick Cregg
Darren McCormack
Alan Gow

Gow was the only loan signing I knew about.

And Stokes is the only one from that list I remember anyone crying over.

Disc O'Dave
23-09-2010, 10:27 AM
Some tenuous links for consideration.

In his first season, he delivered a major achievement by winning a cup. In his first season Highes delivered a major 'achievement' by delivering European qualifiction without needing the intertutu.



He didn't "need" the intertoto as it didn't exist anymore, and was replaced by the earlier rounds that we qualified into....no?

ahibby
23-09-2010, 10:33 AM
Some of the criticism I read about Yogi in this thread. Could just as easily be attributed to Collins and Mixu. We helped get rid of Mixu, the board's lack of ambition appeared to get rid of Collins and so I guess the pattern would continue when we get the board to sack Yogi. Then continue again after the next appt and the next and so on. I wonder when and where this will all end. Anyone confident that the board will appt someone who will produce any better with what the board makes available to them? At the moment I am not.

erin-go-bragh87
23-09-2010, 11:34 AM
He didn't "need" the intertoto as it didn't exist anymore, and was replaced by the earlier rounds that we qualified into....no?

:agree:

TrickyNicky
23-09-2010, 12:15 PM
I think the board need to spend some money on outsourcing the selection process.

They need to listen to a few different ideas and concepts on moving forward and using this to their advantage within the realms of the what is probably one of the lowest standards of SPL since it's inception.

Looking at what overseas managers there are who can network with other scouts, coaches, agents and opportunities that will benefit Hibs.

They have shown vision in regards to East Mains and the stadium - they need to match it with the managerial staff - one from a successful footballing nation and footballing culture who will probably see the problems easily and will have the players wanting to play for them, to excite them again and this will show.

It will cost but it's been costing more than it should already and will only continue in direction unless a change of radical leaning is implemented.

Mikeystewart
23-09-2010, 12:36 PM
The buck stops with the manager.

If he has lost the dressing room that's his fault.

If the players are not good enough that yogi's fault cause he signed them.

If Yogi couldn't find better that's his fault because there are clearly better players out there playing for Hamilton, ICT, Kili cause they all beat us or matched us.

What ever way you look at it the buck in this scenario stops with Yogi. bad defending and a non existent midfield isn't down to luck. its down to a lack of preparation and / or ability.

He keeps going on about the players commitment desire blah blah to deflect from the real facts.

Commitment and desire are a prerequisite of being a football player. If you don't have it you are in the wrong sport because at every level from the 5 a side at the pits to playing in the champions league for Real Madrid the fans expect desire and commitment.

It insults the intelligence of football fans and Hibs fans when Yogi keeps going on about this as if we should be grateful the players are breaking a sweat.

rant over still P****D off

Speedway
23-09-2010, 12:41 PM
He didn't "need" the intertoto as it didn't exist anymore, and was replaced by the earlier rounds that we qualified into....no?

Could be mistaken here, but wasn't the intertoto an optional competition you could enter if you'd missed out on the automatic places?

Speedway
23-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Are you still weighting "the Manager factor" at just 10% after last night's display?

Departures in the recent summer window:

Anthony Stokes
Yves MaKalambay
Abdesallam Benjelloun
Patrick Cregg
Darren McCormack
Alan Gow

Gow was the only loan signing I knew about.

No, it's certainly rising with each passing result :greengrin

By loanees, I meant players that were shipped out to make room for new players, only to have to wait til deadline day to get 3 of them.

As I recall, we've shipped out Byrne, Moyes, Booth, Flynn, McCann and Taggart, making 12 bodies out of the way for new signings.

BEEJ
23-09-2010, 01:01 PM
By loanees, I meant players that were shipped out to make room for new players, only to have to wait til deadline day to get 3 of them.

As I recall, we've shipped out Byrne, Moyes, Booth, Flynn, McCann and Taggart, making 12 bodies out of the way for new signings.
OK. Got you.

But to be strictly accurate Moyes, Booth and Flynn were out on loan last season as well. None of them were available to Hughes in the latter part of last season.

So I still don't make it to 12. :greengrin

NORTHERNHIBBY
23-09-2010, 02:58 PM
Perhaps we all could do with a wee touch of realism applied? I hear Hughes going on about his vision about how the game should be played, and hinted comparisons to Arsenal and Barcelona, but in reality, a club of our size is never going to get ten two-footed attacking footballlers all comfortable in the ball and able to play in any outfield jersey. Does that mean that we should go through the season happy with glimpses of this now and again but ultimately getting nowhere. Sometimes easy on the eye, but too easy to beat would sum up his time at Falkirk and we are not far away from that now. I wonder where organisation, and hard to beat factor in? I recall when Tommy Burns [ who I would have loved to have seen in the dug out at ER] got emptied from Reading, and the Chairman at the time said that TB very much had a football vision, but they just could not afford to buy the players that would have been able to make that come true. I think we could be close to that just now. For the SPL, and for our means, I think we have a decent enough squad and the acid test is what the manager can do with those players. Not what he might be able to do with better ones.

Disc O'Dave
23-09-2010, 03:43 PM
Could be mistaken here, but wasn't the intertoto an optional competition you could enter if you'd missed out on the automatic places?

Yes it was - however it was scrapped in favour of more qualifying rounds, thus allowing more teams into europe (Intertoto original aim), without the stigma of it being a second rate competition. Incorporation was also seen as a way to expand the UEFA Cup, which then all became the "Europa League"

In effect, without the change, we probably wouldn't have qualified for Europe, having finished fourth (though in hindsight, maybe that would have applied to 5th place Motherwell, not us).

Winning intertoto used to get you into group stages I think (there were group winners), or the qualifying round before the groups stages. Ceratinaly further on than our round against Maribor was.

It's all a moot point, and I wasn't meaning to use it as a stick to beat up Yogi (we have enough of those already).....