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Sammy7nil
22-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Stop this nonesense

Quote Originally Posted by At The Edge View Post
Your bit about De Graaf is spot on, i remember talking to a Celtic fan about Robbie Keane, time and time again he was made to look like a numpty simply because he was 2 or 3 passes ahead of his team mates, running to positions where he THOUGHT the ball would be coming, only to find that it didn't, or making passes to where he thought a player would be only to find that they weren't.

De Graaf will be good when his team mates catch up with him.

Great posts by the way,





This really makes me laugh out loud. If he is that good just slow down. If he does think that quick how did he miss against Rangers ?

You can go 40 minutes at a time not knowing he is on the pitch he must be thinking so quick I cant see him.

He looks slow, does not tackle, does not get box to box, does not hold on to the ball, has not made killer passes I really fail to see what his role is and I think he does too.

Lots peeps on here trying to be clever saying he is too good for our players and thinks way ahead of them. Lets get one thing straight Kenny Dagleish got this when playing for Scotland pundits saying he was too quick thinking for his team mates, Mr Ed is no Kenny Dagleish. He is a dutch boy lost in Edinburgh lets hope he finds himself soon.


Posted the other day this man is lost it

Phil D. Rolls
22-09-2010, 08:17 PM
Stop this nonesense

Quote Originally Posted by At The Edge View Post
Your bit about De Graaf is spot on, i remember talking to a Celtic fan about Robbie Keane, time and time again he was made to look like a numpty simply because he was 2 or 3 passes ahead of his team mates, running to positions where he THOUGHT the ball would be coming, only to find that it didn't, or making passes to where he thought a player would be only to find that they weren't.

De Graaf will be good when his team mates catch up with him.

Great posts by the way,





This really makes me laugh out loud. If he is that good just slow down. If he does think that quick how did he miss against Rangers ?

You can go 40 minutes at a time not knowing he is on the pitch he must be thinking so quick I cant see him.

He looks slow, does not tackle, does not get box to box, does not hold on to the ball, has not made killer passes I really fail to see what his role is and I think he does too.

Lots peeps on here trying to be clever saying he is too good for our players and thinks way ahead of them. Lets get one thing straight Kenny Dagleish got this when playing for Scotland pundits saying he was too quick thinking for his team mates, Mr Ed is no Kenny Dagleish. He is a dutch boy lost in Edinburgh lets hope he finds himself soon.


Posted the other day this man is lost it

I have slagged Eddie off, and I think it has been too soon to be doing so - particularly given the doubts over our manager.

I was thinking today about another player who took a full year to settle, Willie Irvine. So, I have hopes that Eddie can still come good. Even if he could just as easily be Jarkko Wiss, or Eduardo Hurtado.

Sammy7nil
22-09-2010, 08:21 PM
He has a long way to go to be as good as Jarko :greengrin

Victor Park
22-09-2010, 08:23 PM
Stop this nonesense

Quote Originally Posted by At The Edge View Post
Your bit about De Graaf is spot on, i remember talking to a Celtic fan about Robbie Keane, time and time again he was made to look like a numpty simply because he was 2 or 3 passes ahead of his team mates, running to positions where he THOUGHT the ball would be coming, only to find that it didn't, or making passes to where he thought a player would be only to find that they weren't.

De Graaf will be good when his team mates catch up with him.

Great posts by the way,





This really makes me laugh out loud. If he is that good just slow down. If he does think that quick how did he miss against Rangers ?

You can go 40 minutes at a time not knowing he is on the pitch he must be thinking so quick I cant see him.

He looks slow, does not tackle, does not get box to box, does not hold on to the ball, has not made killer passes I really fail to see what his role is and I think he does too.

Lots peeps on here trying to be clever saying he is too good for our players and thinks way ahead of them. Lets get one thing straight Kenny Dagleish got this when playing for Scotland pundits saying he was too quick thinking for his team mates, Mr Ed is no Kenny Dagleish. He is a dutch boy lost in Edinburgh lets hope he finds himself soon.


Posted the other day this man is lost it

Agreed.

We used to hear the same nonsense spouted about Alan O Brien's crosses to nobody in the box - they were apparently great crosses but his teammates were too stupid to be in the right place......

The Voice Of Reason
22-09-2010, 08:26 PM
Dutch dud.

SquashedFrogg
22-09-2010, 08:27 PM
Agreed.

We used to hear the same nonsense spouted about Alan O Brien's crosses to nobody in the box - they were apparently great crosses but his teammates were too stupid to be in the right place......

:yawn:

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2010, 08:31 PM
He's never a player, no ability cant tackle, cant track back, Hart is always marking 2 players while he is puffing out his arse trying to keep up. He cant pass cant do **** all. He's hopeless.

Victor Park
22-09-2010, 08:32 PM
:yawn:

Yes - all these sitters he is missing are becoming a bit tiresome.

The Voice Of Reason
22-09-2010, 08:36 PM
He's never a player, no ability cant tackle, cant track back, Hart is always marking 2 players while he is puffing out his arse trying to keep up. He cant pass cant do **** all. He's hopeless.

My thoughts exactly (you missed that he can't control a ball by the way).

Question - why do you think Yogi signed him in the first place ? Major mistake me thinks.

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2010, 08:39 PM
My thoughts exactly (you missed that he can't control a ball by the way).

Question - why do you think Yogi signed him in the first place ? Major mistake me thinks.

I can only think he signed the wrong player? :confused::confused::confused: He is the worst player we have signed in many years. Keenan, Kerr O'****inbrien, none were as bad as this waste of space.

Sammy7nil
22-09-2010, 08:39 PM
Quote Originally Posted by ahibby View Post
It's not Yogis fault de graf missed a sitter that could have changed the game. De Graf is the level of player the board sanctions.



Yogi said "we scouted him and watched several times we made sure he was the right player for Hibs"

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2010, 08:41 PM
Quote Originally Posted by ahibby View Post
It's not Yogis fault de graf missed a sitter that could have changed the game. De Graf is the level of player the board sanctions.



Yogi said "we scouted him and watched several times we made sure he was the right player for Hibs"

I dont believe him.

bighairyfaeleith
22-09-2010, 08:41 PM
I'll reserve judgement until I see him under another manager, next week hopefully

Gala Foxes
22-09-2010, 08:41 PM
De Graaf has done nothing to suggest he is anything other than an over hyped dud

The Voice Of Reason
22-09-2010, 08:44 PM
I can only think he signed the wrong player? :confused::confused::confused: He is the worst player we have signed in many years. Keenan, Kerr O'****inbrien, none were as bad as this waste of space.

Agreed - Ross Chisholm is better than De Graaf FFS :grr:

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2010, 08:45 PM
I'll reserve judgement until I see him under another manager, next week hopefully

I hear Ferguson and Mourinho practice open goals every day.

SquashedFrogg
22-09-2010, 08:45 PM
Yes - all these sitters he is missing are becoming a bit tiresome.

Nah, as an example I feel that he played in the mcleish era with sauzee, latapy etc he'd be a legend right now in everyones eyes. Same with Miller. Christ all mighty, Paco Luna is idolised by some on here but if he played for us now he'd be comparable to Nish.

Same with Matty J, cmon he wasnae all that great? couple of hard tackles but honestly.

Even Stokes was getting slaughtered on here a few weeks ago. Fair enough he's taken a stepp back in his career heading west but make no mistake, it'll be a wee while before we have an out and out goal scorer like him again!

People have to relax a bit and not jump up in arms every 2 seconds. :grr:

GGTTH

Victor Park
22-09-2010, 08:50 PM
Nah, as an example I feel that he played in the mcleish era with sauzee, latapy etc he'd be a legend right now in everyones eyes. Same with Miller. Christ all mighty, Paco Luna is idolised by some on here but if he played for us now he'd be comparable to Nish.

Same with Matty J, cmon he wasnae all that great? couple of hard tackles but honestly.

Even Stokes was getting slaughtered on here a few weeks ago. Fair enough he's taken a stepp back in his career heading west but make no mistake, it'll be a wee while before we have an out and out goal scorer like him again!

People have to relax a bit and not jump up in arms every 2 seconds. :grr:

GGTTH

:yawn:

Sammy7nil
22-09-2010, 08:51 PM
Nah, as an example I feel that he played in the mcleish era with sauzee, latapy etc he'd be a legend right now in everyones eyes. Same with Miller. Christ all mighty, Paco Luna is idolised by some on here but if he played for us now he'd be comparable to Nish.

Same with Matty J, cmon he wasnae all that great? couple of hard tackles but honestly.

Even Stokes was getting slaughtered on here a few weeks ago. Fair enough he's taken a stepp back in his career heading west but make no mistake, it'll be a wee while before we have an out and out goal scorer like him again!



People have to relax a bit and not jump up in arms every 2 seconds. :grr:

GGTTH


I will have a pint of what your drinking :greengrin

We would Kill for Matty Jack and Paco Luna

De Graaf and Nish :bye:

If you would not accept that then imho you should seek help

lyonhibs
22-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Agreed - Ross Chisholm is better than De Graaf FFS :grr:

Now let's not go getting carried away here.......................... :greengrin

The Voice Of Reason
22-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Now let's not go getting carried away here.......................... :greengrin

I am not kidding mate. :grr:

lyonhibs
22-09-2010, 09:11 PM
Nah, as an example I feel that he played in the mcleish era with sauzee, latapy etc he'd be a legend right now in everyones eyes. Same with Miller. Christ all mighty, Paco Luna is idolised by some on here but if he played for us now he'd be comparable to Nish.

Same with Matty J, cmon he wasnae all that great? couple of hard tackles but honestly.

Even Stokes was getting slaughtered on here a few weeks ago. Fair enough he's taken a stepp back in his career heading west but make no mistake, it'll be a wee while before we have an out and out goal scorer like him again!

People have to relax a bit and not jump up in arms every 2 seconds. :grr:

GGTTH

In what way, possibly, ever would Paco Lune be comparable to Colin Nish???

Matty Jack did his job perfectly - every team needs that kind of player. Compare with McBride and Miller who - despite a lot of shouting and gesticulating from McBride - are (for the most part) as powderpuff a pairing as one would wish to see when not in possession of the ball.

And yes, if De Graaf displayed anything approaching the quality needed to get into the team we had during the Sauzee era, he probably would be idolised, but he doesn't, so he isn't, so I really don't quite grasp your point :confused:

FWIW, I think he'll come good. Hogg was rank for the better part of a season in total before Yogi finally dropped him. De Graaf has scored 2 goals in 7/8 games - it'll be a while before he gets benched.

SquashedFrogg
22-09-2010, 09:20 PM
I will have a pint of what your drinking :greengrin

We would Kill for Matty Jack and Paco Luna

De Graaf and Nish :bye:

If you would not accept that then imho you should seek help

So let me get this straight, u think matty jack was actually a good football player? personally i thought he was a pretty average footballer who endeared himself to the fans with the 'put a rough tackle in' attitude. I'm telling you right now, if he played for us next week (obviously not at his age at the moment) he'd get slaughtered. wouldn't he?

Fans favourites spring to mind. And short memories :yawn:

allezsauzee
22-09-2010, 09:31 PM
I can only think he signed the wrong player? :confused::confused::confused: He is the worst player we have signed in many years. Keenan, Kerr O'****inbrien, none were as bad as this waste of space.

No way is he as bad as Joe Keenan was. Keenan was playing about 2 divisions above his level as his career subsquent to leaving Hibs has proven. De graaf has played in the top tier of Dutch football for years. Fair enough he's disappointed in his first 6 domestic games ( Did ok against Maribor) but the guy has changed leagues, changed countries, could take a bit of time to settle.

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2010, 09:37 PM
No way is he as bad as Joe Keenan was. Keenan was playing about 2 divisions above his level as his career subsquent to leaving Hibs has proven. De graaf has played in the top tier of Dutch football for years. Fair enough he's disappointed in his first 6 domestic games ( Did ok against Maribor) but the guy has changed leagues, changed countries, could take a bit of time to settle.

Thats true, when you play in a different country, you automatically forget how to trap a ball, pass it and tackle. It will take him a while to remember how to do these things.

malcolm-bogie
22-09-2010, 09:39 PM
No way is he as bad as Joe Keenan was. Keenan was playing about 2 divisions above his level as his career subsquent to leaving Hibs has proven. De graaf has played in the top tier of Dutch football for years. Fair enough he's disappointed in his first 6 domestic games ( Did ok against Maribor) but the guy has changed leagues, changed countries, could take a bit of time to settle.

Time is something we don`t have. I still question whether or not Yogi actually went and watched this guy play or was his signing based on some video compilation produced by his agent?

Sammy7nil
22-09-2010, 09:41 PM
So let me get this straight, u think matty jack was actually a good football player? personally i thought he was a pretty average footballer who endeared himself to the fans with the 'put a rough tackle in' attitude. I'm telling you right now, if he played for us next week (obviously not at his age at the moment) he'd get slaughtered. wouldn't he?

Fans favourites spring to mind. And short memories :yawn:


No Jack was NOT a good "football" player.

He was effective and exactly what we need now leave the football to Miller Riordan and Zemmama let some like Jack stop the other team. Something no one in this squad can do hence the number of goals we lose.

Hope This Helps

The Voice Of Reason
22-09-2010, 09:41 PM
No way is he as bad as Joe Keenan was. Keenan was playing about 2 divisions above his level as his career subsquent to leaving Hibs has proven. De graaf has played in the top tier of Dutch football for years. Fair enough he's disappointed in his first 6 domestic games ( Did ok against Maribor) but the guy has changed leagues, changed countries, could take a bit of time to settle.

Were you at the Maribor game mate ?

Yes, he scored 2 goals (although the first deflected off him), however his actual performance was dire - I said immediately after that game that the goals papered over the cracks.

He will not improve as he lacks the basics (no touch, no pace, can't pass). He is a very poor player IMHO.

Sad but true.

The Voice Of Reason
22-09-2010, 09:43 PM
Time is something we don`t have. I still question whether or not Yogi actually went and watched this guy play or was his signing based on some video compelation produced by his agent?

Me too. If he did go and watch him play then signing him it is the worst decision Hughes will ever make as a manager (worse than making Hogg captain).

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Were you at the Maribor game mate ?

Yes, he scored 2 goals (although the first deflected off him), however his actual performance was dire - I said immediately after that game that the goals papered over the cracks.

He will not improve as he lacks the basics (no touch, no pace, can't pass). He is a very poor player IMHO.

Sad but true.

We were walking back to the car after that game, and on the way we were all to a man saying he was poor. Imagine our surprise when the radio gave him MOM? A very poor player, one who i just don't see anything in him?

BEEJ
22-09-2010, 10:34 PM
Tell you what ....

De Graaf may have missed another open goal tonight and lacked pace at times. But he was certainly not the worst player on the field in the green and white. Not by a long chalk.

For that accolade I give you the one and only Liam Miller, ladies and gentlemen. Very poor performance from someone of his ability.

DexterStJock
22-09-2010, 10:38 PM
tell you what ....

de graaf may have missed another open goal tonight and lacked pace at times. But he was certainly not the worst player on the field in the green and white. Not by a long chalk.

For that accolade i give you the one and only liam miller, ladies and gentlemen. Very poor performance from someone of his ability.

he did?!

BEEJ
22-09-2010, 10:40 PM
;2585205']he did?!
Sadly, yes.

Killie goalie saved it and the ball came out to De Graaf with a bit of pace on it. But it was there to be buried and he missed the target.

Other than that and being left for dead by the Killie winger in the lead up to their first goal, I thought he played OK.

DexterStJock
22-09-2010, 11:00 PM
Sadly, yes.

Killie goalie saved it and the ball came out to De Graaf with a bit of pace on it. But it was there to be buried and he missed the target.

Other than that and being left for dead by the Killie winger in the lead up to their first goal, I thought he played OK.

Jeesus, if he ever does score again there is gonnae be a massive Nishesque cheer.

Jonnyboy
22-09-2010, 11:06 PM
To miss one open goal is unlucky

To miss a second open goal is doubly unlucky

To miss a third open goal is totally unacceptable

Baldy Foghorn
22-09-2010, 11:25 PM
To miss one open goal is unlucky

To miss a second open goal is doubly unlucky

To miss a third open goal is totally unacceptable

:agree: A professional missing 3 open goals within 5 games is astonishing.... All at crucial times in the games that would have seen us take the lead.... Important and costly misses:grr:

Baldy Foghorn
22-09-2010, 11:26 PM
Tell you what ....

De Graaf may have missed another open goal tonight and lacked pace at times. But he was certainly not the worst player on the field in the green and white. Not by a long chalk.

For that accolade I give you the one and only Liam Miller, ladies and gentlemen. Very poor performance from someone of his ability.

Liam "pass the buck" Miller..... Bottle merchant

RoscoHibby
23-09-2010, 07:05 AM
So let me get this straight, u think matty jack was actually a good football player? personally i thought he was a pretty average footballer who endeared himself to the fans with the 'put a rough tackle in' attitude. I'm telling you right now, if he played for us next week (obviously not at his age at the moment) he'd get slaughtered. wouldn't he?

Fans favourites spring to mind. And short memories :yawn:


FFS Matty Jack, captain birdseye would do a better job :greengrin

Iggy Pope
23-09-2010, 07:50 AM
Sadly, yes.

Killie goalie saved it and the ball came out to De Graaf with a bit of pace on it. But it was there to be buried and he missed the target.

Other than that and being left for dead by the Killie winger in the lead up to their first goal, I thought he played OK.

Not sure about that. IMO this was the worst of the three. He had time, two yards,no opponrent, stranded goalie. His connection with the ball was remarkably poor.


To miss one open goal is unlucky

To miss a second open goal is doubly unlucky

To miss a third open goal is totally unacceptable

He is on a retainer.
If this was cricket, Scotland Yard would be involved. Snooker and Barry Hearns would be all over it.
He was culpable at their first two goals as well...........

Cabbage1875
23-09-2010, 08:06 AM
Sadly, yes.

Killie goalie saved it and the ball came out to De Graaf with a bit of pace on it. But it was there to be buried and he missed the target.

Other than that and being left for dead by the Killie winger in the lead up to their first goal, I thought he played OK.

In the lead up to their penalty and second goal I'm pretty sure he lost the ball in midfield for the umpteenth time. So he was towing caravans at the first goal; missed an open goal; then played a huge part in the second goal. He is rapidly becoming the scapegoat, which i genuinely do sympathise with him for as I think the reaction to him is amplified by our current run.

In all honesty though his performances have been nothing short of woeful!

Sammy7nil
23-09-2010, 05:53 PM
:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:

I just saw the miss WTF you are correct if it was cricket or snooker the police would be invoved

Perhaps he is a plant to bring Hibs down.
:paranoid::paranoid::paranoid:

blackpoolhibs
23-09-2010, 05:56 PM
:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:

I just saw the miss WTF you are correct if it was cricket or snooker the police would be invoved

Perhaps he is a plant to bring Hibs down.
:paranoid::paranoid::paranoid:

Come on he's in a new country, it takes time to fit in and learn all over again how to play football.

steakbake
23-09-2010, 06:01 PM
Come on he's in a new country, it takes time to fit in and learn all over again how to play football.

Absolutely. He should be given much more time by the fans. Part of me (my elbow) thinks that if results were going our way just now and he was making these mistakes, people probably wouldn't notice as much or would be a bit more logical about it.

Problem is that he's not yet knocking them in amongst a team which is regularly misfiring in most areas of the park, so it's more obvious and the chances seem more squandered than if things were sweet.

Sammy7nil
23-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Absolutely. He should be given much more time by the fans. Part of me (my elbow) thinks that if results were going our way just now and he was making these mistakes, people probably wouldn't notice as much or would be a bit more logical about it.

Problem is that he's not yet knocking them in amongst a team which is regularly misfiring in most areas of the park, so it's more obvious and the chances seem more squandered than if things were sweet.


I think Blackpool had his tongue firmly in his cheek :wink:

steakbake
23-09-2010, 06:05 PM
I think Blackpool had his tongue firmly in his cheek :wink:

:bsod: *** duped!!

anyhow, I still think the same. The guy's hardly been playing for us for long. Needs a goal and he'll be right as rain. I bet you.

blackpoolhibs
23-09-2010, 06:10 PM
I think Blackpool had his tongue firmly in his cheek :wink:

:tee hee: More time my arse, it makes no difference if you come from leith or amsterdam, you need to be scoring open goals. And thats not taking into consideration his lack of ability, or his inability to tackle or pass. He runs like he's knackered all the time, and does not come back with his player, well he does, its just that he comes back 5 yards behind him. A shocking signing, whoever signed him should be sacked.

Danderhall Hibs
23-09-2010, 06:35 PM
I rad on here that Maribor are the best team that'll be at Easter Road this season and De Graaf scored both goals in that game. Is he keeping his best performances for the really good teams?...

BS44
23-09-2010, 07:55 PM
To miss one open goal is unlucky

To miss a second open goal is doubly unlucky

To miss a third open goal is totally unacceptable

Bit harsh to call the one against the huns a miss. Give Buggera a bit credit for the tackle.

Sammy7nil
23-09-2010, 08:40 PM
Bit harsh to call the one against the huns a miss. Give Buggera a bit credit for the tackle.

Great tackle

BUT

if any experienced player waits on the ball instead of moving to it and lashing it in the net he deserves stick.

Stokes and Boyd would have scored okay unfair comparrison as he is not a stirker.
Lets go for Colin Cameron, Pat McGinlay, Hartley and many more would have tucked it away. We were lead to believe he is a box to box guy who scores goals. He aint, he is annon guy who misses open goals :boo hoo:

BS44
23-09-2010, 09:11 PM
Great tackle

BUT

if any experienced player waits on the ball instead of moving to it and lashing it in the net he deserves stick.

Stokes and Boyd would have scored okay unfair comparrison as he is not a stirker.
Lets go for Colin Cameron, Pat McGinlay, Hartley and many more would have tucked it away. We were lead to believe he is a box to box guy who scores goals. He aint, he is annon guy who misses open goals :boo hoo:

He is a box to box player no doubt. And he does score goals as you well know.

Last night he was always getting forward and trying to support Nish. OK he missed another sitter but at least he is getting into the opponents box to miss/score these chances.

I can understand the frustration with De Graaf and his misses, but he's not as bad a player as some are suggesting and to be writing him off after a handful of games is bit unfair on the guy.

blackpoolhibs
23-09-2010, 09:19 PM
He is a box to box player no doubt. And he does score goals as you well know.

Last night he was always getting forward and trying to support Nish. OK he missed another sitter but at least he is getting into the opponents box to miss/score these chances.

I can understand the frustration with De Graaf and his misses, but he's not as bad a player as some are suggesting and to be writing him off after a handful of games is bit unfair on the guy.

I just don't see it? Last week against Hamilton i watched Hart get slaughtered down the right by 2 players every time they attacked. De Gaff was puffing and panting trying to get back to help him after one of his box to box forages. :faf:

He tries to pass the ball, but he seems to try and pass it before he's got it under control. Dont start me on his tackling. And his finishing needs a little work.:wink:

He was our big signing of the summer, a complete waste of time effort and money imho.

Captain Trips
23-09-2010, 09:21 PM
I will not be writing this guy off as yet, I judge a player after 15-20 matches but we are all different.

bingo70
23-09-2010, 09:31 PM
Alex Mcleish just been on SSN saying how difficuilt it's been for Zigic to get used to the EPL as its a totally different style of football than he's used to and it's going to take a long time for him to get used to it, suppose we'll know more than him about foreigners adapting to a different country and style of football though :rolleyes:

IMO it is relevant he's been getting into goal scoring positions and it's a matter of time until he starts putting his chances away.

blackpoolhibs
23-09-2010, 09:34 PM
Alex Mcleish just been on SSN saying how difficuilt it's been for Zigic to get used to the EPL as its a totally different style of football than he's used to and it's going to take a long time for him to get used to it, suppose we'll know more than him about foreigners adapting to a different country and style of football though :rolleyes:

IMO it is relevant he's been getting into goal scoring positions and it's a matter of time until he starts putting his chances away.

Excuse excuses excuses. How difficult is it to put the ball in an empty net? Do they have different nets in Holland?

truehibernian
23-09-2010, 09:42 PM
Doesn't matter what league you are in in the world, doesn't matter what styles of football are played. You still need good overall endurance and fitness levels. None of the Hibs players have it under Hughes it seems, including De Graff. All are left for dead against pace no matter what player or position you choose. The only player I would exclude in that is Bamba who for 90 minutes maintains good overall levels of fitness. Our full backs are slow, midfielders static, and our front men look like they are pulling tyres at times. Far too much ball work (which is clearly not even working) and not enough aerobic and endurance fitness at East Mains. Only my opinion

bingo70
23-09-2010, 09:42 PM
Excuse excuses excuses. How difficult is it to put the ball in an empty net? Do they have different nets in Holland?

I think it's a confidence issue as he's clearly finding it difficuilt to adjust so he's not taking his chances with any conviction.

It's a cliche normally saved for strikers but as long as he's getting himself into the right positions the goals will come, of course it's frustrating he's not putting them away just now, however when they do i think they'll come in numbers.

How often did you or do you hear about Rankin, Cregg, Mcbride, Chisolm, Miller and all the other midfielders we've had recently get into positions where they could score or miss sitters?

As for him blowing out his arse early doors, playing midfield here when we've not got a striker that can hold the ball up will be a different game completely to the slow patient build up he's used to across there so of course it'll take time for him to adjust.

Sammy7nil
23-09-2010, 09:58 PM
Alex Mcleish just been on SSN saying how difficuilt it's been for Zigic to get used to the EPL as its a totally different style of football than he's used to and it's going to take a long time for him to get used to it, suppose we'll know more than him about foreigners adapting to a different country and style of football though :rolleyes:

IMO it is relevant he's been getting into goal scoring positions and it's a matter of time until he starts putting his chances away.


If Managers know it is going to take a player a full season to settle in why bother ?

This is not a young guy with potential to hold on to and develop this is an experienced player who was our major signing this summer.

Sammy7nil
23-09-2010, 10:08 PM
I hate to be so negative lets hope he turns it around and turns out to be the new Pat McGinley.

No I have not been drinking :greengrin

Eganov
23-09-2010, 10:32 PM
Clearly the Scottish game isnt as bad nick as we think if a player with a Dutch cap can come from NAC Breda and not be upto scratch.

I'd rather have 1 de graff who has talent, experience and a bit of passion than 100 Brian kerrs and Joe keenans.

Victor Park
23-09-2010, 11:11 PM
Clearly the Scottish game isnt as bad nick as we think if a player with a Dutch cap can come from NAC Breda and not be upto scratch.

I'd rather have 1 de graff who has talent, experience and a bit of passion than 100 Brian kerrs and Joe keenans.

The thing is if you had 100 Brian Kerrs running about doing a whole host of unseen work, De Graaf wouldn't stand out from any of them. He'd fit in quite nicely. You'd just have 101 Brian Kerrs.

Obscene Omeonga
23-09-2010, 11:16 PM
I have no idea how he is managing to miss these sitters, but I do see him get box to box - now I'd like him to keep up with the pace and run with the ball, and score these ****ing sitters.

blackpoolhibs
24-09-2010, 08:32 AM
I have no idea how he is managing to miss these sitters, but I do see him get box to box - now I'd like him to keep up with the pace and run with the ball, and score these ****ing sitters.

I could get box to box at his pace, i could also miss open goals too. I 'm also pretty sure i could track back 5-10 yards behind the guy i'm supposed to be marking.

truehibernian
24-09-2010, 09:03 AM
Edwin de Graffe may be described as "box to box", and yes he may have been found in the opposition box a few times missing these chances. However the saying is "box to box" so next time he plays watch with interest how many times he tracks back into our box to defend. The answer is very clear. He doesn't. He lacks pace, looks unfit and as a midfielder, I hate this term anyway. Any midfielder when the opportunity arises should be looking to get forward into the box or in attacking positions. They should also be fit enough to track back and defend. Our midfield is engulfed because our front men don't defend up top and close down and they lose possession cheaply. Our midfield this season cannot keep possession well nor fight to get the ball back. This puts our back line under pressure. We seem to be relying on counter attack football, but this only works if you have 1) a resilient back line and 2) pace from midfield to front. We don't have it at all. I never like seeing a player go through bad times but the simple rule of management is when a player is clearly struggling and affecting the overall team performance he has to step aside and let another guy grab his chance.

De Graff should never have been near that side against Hamilton let alone Killie. DW the same boat I'm afraid. Colin Nish is a first pick due to the managerial error of not getting in good striker options pre-season and for me this is an unforgiveable error on Hughes part. He must have anticipated a move for either Stokes or Derek, and releasing Benji and loaning Kurtis (which for me is personal, not for KB's development) was just plain stupid. Leaving it to last day of the window, getting a player in who has not had a real pre-season with the lads and not much competitive football is lunacy (Duffy). Even allowing for the unforeseen injury, he should have had the boy in place after summer hols.

All three (DG, DW, CN) IMHO are playing poorly and need to work their way back into the side. Youth also has to be given a chance as the "experienced" pros are letting the team down badly. It is the worst, most one-paced, cumbersome, ponderous and lazy football I have seen from a Hibs side in years.

bingo70
24-09-2010, 09:13 AM
Edwin de Graffe may be described as "box to box", and yes he may have been found in the opposition box a few times missing these chances. However the saying is "box to box" so next time he plays watch with interest how many times he tracks back into our box to defend. The answer is very clear. He doesn't. He lacks pace, looks unfit and as a midfielder, I hate this term anyway. Any midfielder when the opportunity arises should be looking to get forward into the box or in attacking positions. They should also be fit enough to track back and defend. Our midfield is engulfed because our front men don't defend up top and close down and they lose possession cheaply. Our midfield this season cannot keep possession well nor fight to get the ball back. This puts our back line under pressure. We seem to be relying on counter attack football, but this only works if you have 1) a resilient back line and 2) pace from midfield to front. We don't have it at all. I never like seeing a player go through bad times but the simple rule of management is when a player is clearly struggling and affecting the overall team performance he has to step aside and let another guy grab his chance.

De Graff should never have been near that side against Hamilton let alone Killie. DW the same boat I'm afraid. Colin Nish is a first pick due to the managerial error of not getting in good striker options pre-season and for me this is an unforgiveable error on Hughes part. He must have anticipated a move for either Stokes or Derek, and releasing Benji and loaning Kurtis (which for me is personal, not for KB's development) was just plain stupid. Leaving it to last day of the window, getting a player in who has not had a real pre-season with the lads and not much competitive football is lunacy (Duffy). Even allowing for the unforeseen injury, he should have had the boy in place after summer hols.

All three (DG, DW, CN) IMHO are playing poorly and need to work their way back into the side. Youth also has to be given a chance as the "experienced" pros are letting the team down badly. It is the worst, most one-paced, cumbersome, ponderous and lazy football I have seen from a Hibs side in years.

I used to think the problem was with the midfield, but we've tried everything in there, more players, the fitter players, defenders in there, more width and nothing is changing so i actually think the problem is with the strikers.

When the ball goes up top it's not sticking at all so the ball goes forward, the forwards make an erse of keeping hold of it, the midfielders do there best to get up to help them, by the time they get there the balls on it's way back to our box so they're neither offering effective support up front or in defence, this could also explain why when the ball goes into midfield they're keen to slow it down, make sideways 'tippy-tappy' passes and buy themselves some time.

I could be wrong with this one but from memory i think we've been complaining about getting over run in midfield since Killen left.

truehibernian
24-09-2010, 09:26 AM
Good point bingo, but the midfield has no real desire to win the ball back. Totally agree we are terrible at keeping possession up top, which isn't helped by both Nish and Derek at present looking for decisions when the ball is still loose and there to be won/closed down (hands in the air, chasing ref's instead of the ball).

The "tippy tappy" football was also there under JC, but for me the passes are needless, unnecessary, and it is a kind of football only suited to sides whose players are supremely technically proficient and good on the ball. How much money would you be willing to place on Hogg, Bamba, and Hart keeping the ball for 6 or 7 passes, not getting closed down, and looking composed ??? Mixu had the right ideas, the wrong personnel. Playing across your backline, when it really is not required means the opposition can regroup, close down, and pressurise.

It is also not helped by playing 3 in midfield most of the time, with no width or pace. No one looks for the ball. Their backs are to the opposition most of the time when they receive the ball. They turn into trouble. I am not in anyway advocating the long ball game. But we need to be forceful in possession, with urgency and pace and not give the opposition time to think. We need to play on the front foot and not in nice neat triangles. You could lay a wee grass path down the middle of Easter Road, as that is where we play most of our football. Forget the wide areas.

We also don't have anyone playing behind the front two, who can pick up the loose ball, or link up the play when attacking. We are flat and static. We also have two players doing the same job (Miller and McBride).

We have the players, we don't have the manager.

superfurryhibby
24-09-2010, 11:31 AM
I'm not sure that de Graaf knows where he is supposed to be playing. I can't see him as a wide midfielder, given his lack of trickery and pace. He seems to want to drift inside and this unbalances the team, resulting in Hart being put under pressure, defensively and when he is seeking to go forward.

At the moment there seems to be little to commend him, although to be fair he seems to be the only midfield player who actually supports or gets beyond the forwards at times, even if he does keep missing open goals

Expensive flop? Too early to be sure but he needs to look fitter and have a bit more stomach for the fight, not just a petty dig when he misplaces a pass or otherwise loses the ball.