Creating our own Misery

[500miles]

Why do we do it? We ignore anything with even a glimmer of positivity, or try to understand why we stumbled yesterday. To make things worse we then invent negativity - through over analysis or pure invention!

Why is the fact that it looks like there was nothing wrong with Nish's goal being ignored? He's done everything right to score - what should have been the winning goal, but due to the mistake of the linesman, he was embarrassingly jeered off. That should actually be a MASSIVE talking point, because 1. It could have won us the game and 2. It's a major blow to a player who's confidence is rock bottom, would have benefitted from a bit of fan support, and from a goal.

Why can we not accept that our luck is just a little out at the moment? The new pacy forward - which is something that was universally agreed to be necassary - injured himself before he could play his first game for us. We missed some glorious chances to beat Inverness, which past form shows that the players involved should be more than capable of putting them away. And Wotherspoon's marginally offside goal last week too? There wasn't daylight between the players, but Wotherspoon saw the chance to improve fortunes, and snatched at it without thinking.Why can we not accept that cracking the underside of the crossbar for the ball to bounce OUT of the goalmouth against Hamilton is little more than a bit of misfortune, and that Nish's goal being chopped off was also that? It's just not our time just now.

Why are we reading into some sort of handshake situation with Hughes in Galbraith like Poirot investingating the Masons? Hughes surely couldn't have ignore Danny for long - he was going back to a dressing room with him?

Why are we taking irrelivant statistics - like running last years results over into this years? There has been a full preseason between then and now, with wins against some good opposition, and some poor results against lesser opposition. Now, from what I heard, Hughes should have been sacked before the Blackpool game according to some, so don't give me this nonsense that they're meaningless games - because clearly if losing them can get you your jotters, then they mean something?

Why are we creating panic about players who the fans give a hard time anyway not being tied down after the end of the season? If they are such poor players, replacement should be easy, and not to mention the fact that there are a load of youngsters coming back from developemental loan spells after Christmas?

I'm not going to turn around and say that current form is acceptable. However, we are missing that bit of spark - and that's all it is - which gives the players the confidence to kick on. The fans are intent on grinding any enthusiasm out of the players, and are just as much an embarrassment to the club as the team are. I liked the thread where folk complained about lack of hibs songs at half time and before the game. I didn't hear one during the game!

Allowing yourself to become negative when there is much to be negative about is one thing. Preferably you overcome it, and get behind the team in a way that inspires them. What is stupid - in fact, beyond stupid, totally moronic - is creating your own misery. If the team do come out this slump, and a player is interviewed about the upturn in fortunes i very much doubt the fans will get a vote of thanks for sticking by the team - in fact, if they do, i look forward to complaints about the player lying to the fans, using cliches, and being deluded.

If you go to games, and are someone who makes noise - go an make some positive noises. I'm not asking the quiet ones to get up and dancing about - I am one of the quiet ones, and my greatest interest is in watching the game itself. If you think that you are entitled to shout and scream abuse at your own team as a means of showing disapproval, 1. Your aren't, check the back of your ticket - no swearing. If the "I pay my money" line is your excuse, then we really need to get into the technicalities of what the ticket is, and what the rules are on it. 2. If you can't accept 1. show your displeasure by staying at home. Maybe purchase a HI season ticket, if determined to fund the club, to catch up on all the games, and you can sit at home and scream at the screen, and then aim that anger at the wife, before she turns around, and cracks you accross the heid with her rolling pin.

[lyonhibs]

Why do we do it? We ignore anything with even a glimmer of positivity, or try to understand why we stumbled yesterday. To make things worse we then invent negativity - through over analysis or pure invention!

Why is the fact that it looks like there was nothing wrong with Nish's goal being ignored? He's done everything right to score - what should have been the winning goal, but due to the mistake of the linesman, he was embarrassingly jeered off. That should actually be a MASSIVE talking point, because 1. It could have won us the game and 2. It's a major blow to a player who's confidence is rock bottom, would have benefitted from a bit of fan support, and from a goal.

Why can we not accept that our luck is just a little out at the moment? The new pacy forward - which is something that was universally agreed to be necassary - injured himself before he could play his first game for us. We missed some glorious chances to beat Inverness, which past form shows that the players involved should be more than capable of putting them away. And Wotherspoon's marginally offside goal last week too? There wasn't daylight between the players, but Wotherspoon saw the chance to improve fortunes, and snatched at it without thinking.Why can we not accept that cracking the underside of the crossbar for the ball to bounce OUT of the goalmouth against Hamilton is little more than a bit of misfortune, and that Nish's goal being chopped off was also that? It's just not our time just now.

Why are we reading into some sort of handshake situation with Hughes in Galbraith like Poirot investingating the Masons? Hughes surely couldn't have ignore Danny for long - he was going back to a dressing room with him?

Why are we taking irrelivant statistics - like running last years results over into this years? There has been a full preseason between then and now, with wins against some good opposition, and some poor results against lesser opposition. Now, from what I heard, Hughes should have been sacked before the Blackpool game according to some, so don't give me this nonsense that they're meaningless games - because clearly if losing them can get you your jotters, then they mean something?

Why are we creating panic about players who the fans give a hard time anyway not being tied down after the end of the season? If they are such poor players, replacement should be easy, and not to mention the fact that there are a load of youngsters coming back from developemental loan spells after Christmas?

I'm not going to turn around and say that current form is acceptable. However, we are missing that bit of spark - and that's all it is - which gives the players the confidence to kick on. The fans are intent on grinding any enthusiasm out of the players, and are just as much an embarrassment to the club as the team are. I liked the thread where folk complained about lack of hibs songs at half time and before the game. I didn't hear one during the game!

Allowing yourself to become negative when there is much to be negative about is one thing. Preferably you overcome it, and get behind the team in a way that inspires them. What is stupid - in fact, beyond stupid, totally moronic - is creating your own misery. If the team do come out this slump, and a player is interviewed about the upturn in fortunes i very much doubt the fans will get a vote of thanks for sticking by the team - in fact, if they do, i look forward to complaints about the player lying to the fans, using cliches, and being deluded.

If you go to games, and are someone who makes noise - go an make some positive noises. I'm not asking the quiet ones to get up and dancing about - I am one of the quiet ones, and my greatest interest is in watching the game itself. If you think that you are entitled to shout and scream abuse at your own team as a means of showing disapproval, 1. Your aren't, check the back of your ticket - no swearing. If the "I pay my money" line is your excuse, then we really need to get into the technicalities of what the ticket is, and what the rules are on it. 2. If you can't accept 1. show your displeasure by staying at home. Maybe purchase a HI season ticket, if determined to fund the club, to catch up on all the games, and you can sit at home and scream at the screen, and then aim that anger at the wife, before she turns around, and cracks you accross the heid with her rolling pin.

Dodgy spelling aside, here is a rather pertinent statistic to mull over.

We are now on our worst winless streak at home. EVER. That's not "creating misery", that's simple empirical fact. How much of that can you put down to poor Nishy's "rock-bottom" confidence, or the bounce of the ball not going our way on a few occasions??

As the old adage goes, "you make your own luck in this game". Why are we tearing our hair out over a shoddy offside call or the width of a crossbar that stopped us from claiming a glorious 2-1 victory at home to Hamilton??

With the squad we have, we should be beating Hamilton and ICT comfortably, just like, say, Hearts seem to have done with consumate ease so far this season.We should NOT be bemoaning human error or luck preventing us from scraping to a 1 goal victory.

Though I agree with your point re: crowd abuse to players, I didn't have you down as such a tender soul that a few sweary words upset you :greengrin

[truehibernian]

Form since Christmas, out both cups against arguably lesser sides (when draws were kind in both), beaten soundly home and away in Euro qualifier, 1 point of bottom of the table this season after 5 games (3 at home).

That is evidence enough for me, going to games home and away as I do, that Hughes needs to be sacked and we need a fresh impetus at the club. I pay my money like thousands of Hibees, which in turn goes on salaries. I want (and don't mind) some of my money ridding the club of poor employees, as much as I want it invested in great ones. If it is to benefit the football club then so be it. I do see what you are getting at about incidents changing the complexion of games, but to be brutally honest, we got more than our fair share of the rub of the green last season to start off with. Swings and roundabouts as they say. Hopefully Hughes goes onto the roundabout and revolves out the club.

So use my money (or small portion of it) Sir Rod and empty this clown pronto IMHO.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You know, there are times when it is absolutely essential to note the negatives of a situation. There's no point in admiring the good view your getting of the iceberg when you are sailing straight towards it.

[500miles]

Dodgy spelling aside, here is a rather pertinent statistic to mull over.

1.We are now on our worst winless streak at home. EVER. That's not "creating misery", that's simple empirical fact. How much of that can you put down to poor Nishy's "rock-bottom" confidence, or the bounce of the ball not going our way on a few occasions??

2.As the old adage goes, "you make your own luck in this game". Why are we tearing our hair out over a shoddy offside call or the width of a crossbar that stopped us from claiming a glorious 2-1 victory at home to Hamilton??

3.With the squad we have, we should be beating Hamilton and ICT comfortably, just like, say, Hearts seem to have done with consumate ease so far this season.We should NOT be bemoaning human error or luck preventing us from scraping to a 1 goal victory.

4.Though I agree with your point re: crowd abuse to players, I didn't have you down as such a tender soul that a few sweary words upset you :greengrin

1. Last season is over. We got through to Europe, we won our last game, and that winless streak, as Yogi mentioned were against the top teams, and a Derby. In fact, in the 1-0 defeat against Rangers, Colin Nish had a goal chopped off for absolutely nothing with 5 minutes to go. So there's a wee slice of bad luck for you, right there. There have been poor performances, but like I said, and ANY manager will tell you this, you need to get that wee bit of luck when you are in a slump, to help the players kick on. Look at Hearts - they're having a good spell just now, but when your success is based on getting goals from Calum Elliot, I refuse to believe that you've not had your fair share of luck.

2. You make your own luck isn't really true though is it? What is true is that, over the course of a season, chances are fortunate and unfortunate events tend to balance each other out. What isn't going for us at the current time, may well be what goes for us in 3 weeks time, at which point the players take a bit of confidence from that, and start to create more attacking situations that only need a bit of luck to go cause goals.

3. Aye I've heard this "Beating them comfortably". Billy Ried know this about the Hibs supports mentality. Aye, Hearts did hump them, as did Aberdeen, and they got turfed out of the Scottish cup by Raith. However, they went on to beat Inverness, played well against Rangers, and then drew with us. I don't think it's any coincidence that this improvement in fortunes coincided with the signing of Hasselbaink - who caused us all sorts of problems. It also coincided with Ried finding a settled defensive system too.

4. Swearing doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is the attitude "Well, i've paid my money, so I can say what I like." when actually, no, that basically flawed. You have NO right to shout and swear, so stop acting like you are beyond reproach, when the ticket, which they seem to think gives them the right to say what ever they like, clearly states that they are not permitted to be verbally abusive. Clubs don't enforce it, rightly so, but there is no "Right" to spout the pish that they do. If they want to give out the "Rights" line, with a strange officious zeal, the should probably know the rules. If they accept that they have no right, then fair enough.

[Big90inOz]

Why do we do it? We ignore anything with even a glimmer of positivity, or try to understand why we stumbled yesterday. To make things worse we then invent negativity - through over analysis or pure invention!

Why is the fact that it looks like there was nothing wrong with Nish's goal being ignored? He's done everything right to score - what should have been the winning goal, but due to the mistake of the linesman, he was embarrassingly jeered off. That should actually be a MASSIVE talking point, because 1. It could have won us the game and 2. It's a major blow to a player who's confidence is rock bottom, would have benefitted from a bit of fan support, and from a goal.

Why can we not accept that our luck is just a little out at the moment? The new pacy forward - which is something that was universally agreed to be necassary - injured himself before he could play his first game for us. We missed some glorious chances to beat Inverness, which past form shows that the players involved should be more than capable of putting them away. And Wotherspoon's marginally offside goal last week too? There wasn't daylight between the players, but Wotherspoon saw the chance to improve fortunes, and snatched at it without thinking.Why can we not accept that cracking the underside of the crossbar for the ball to bounce OUT of the goalmouth against Hamilton is little more than a bit of misfortune, and that Nish's goal being chopped off was also that? It's just not our time just now.

Why are we reading into some sort of handshake situation with Hughes in Galbraith like Poirot investingating the Masons? Hughes surely couldn't have ignore Danny for long - he was going back to a dressing room with him?

Why are we taking irrelivant statistics - like running last years results over into this years? There has been a full preseason between then and now, with wins against some good opposition, and some poor results against lesser opposition. Now, from what I heard, Hughes should have been sacked before the Blackpool game according to some, so don't give me this nonsense that they're meaningless games - because clearly if losing them can get you your jotters, then they mean something?

Why are we creating panic about players who the fans give a hard time anyway not being tied down after the end of the season? If they are such poor players, replacement should be easy, and not to mention the fact that there are a load of youngsters coming back from developemental loan spells after Christmas?

I'm not going to turn around and say that current form is acceptable. However, we are missing that bit of spark - and that's all it is - which gives the players the confidence to kick on. The fans are intent on grinding any enthusiasm out of the players, and are just as much an embarrassment to the club as the team are. I liked the thread where folk complained about lack of hibs songs at half time and before the game. I didn't hear one during the game!

Allowing yourself to become negative when there is much to be negative about is one thing. Preferably you overcome it, and get behind the team in a way that inspires them. What is stupid - in fact, beyond stupid, totally moronic - is creating your own misery. If the team do come out this slump, and a player is interviewed about the upturn in fortunes i very much doubt the fans will get a vote of thanks for sticking by the team - in fact, if they do, i look forward to complaints about the player lying to the fans, using cliches, and being deluded.

If you go to games, and are someone who makes noise - go an make some positive noises. I'm not asking the quiet ones to get up and dancing about - I am one of the quiet ones, and my greatest interest is in watching the game itself. If you think that you are entitled to shout and scream abuse at your own team as a means of showing disapproval, 1. Your aren't, check the back of your ticket - no swearing. If the "I pay my money" line is your excuse, then we really need to get into the technicalities of what the ticket is, and what the rules are on it. 2. If you can't accept 1. show your displeasure by staying at home. Maybe purchase a HI season ticket, if determined to fund the club, to catch up on all the games, and you can sit at home and scream at the screen, and then aim that anger at the wife, before she turns around, and cracks you accross the heid with her rolling pin.

Cos we are sh*t :dunno:
Cos we are boring to watch :dunno:
Cos we have no structure :dunno:
Cos we have a numpty in charge who talks nonsense:dunno:

[500miles]

You know, there are times when it is absolutely essential to note the negatives of a situation. There's no point in admiring the good view your getting of the iceberg when you are sailing straight towards it.


Time isn't against us. When that iceberg get's a little closer, then make the change, but not worth worrying about yet.

IF things don't change - last season is gone now, out the window, Yogi neither gets credit for getting into a European spot, nor criticism for the poor results at the end of last season - then things will get real when the youngsters get back. If he can't make them and a few other players into a better team, because we are dependant on that youth, then he's not the man to take the club forward, and will be made to walk.

However, we have time. Yogi said that this would take time, that his plan was long term, so we have to go along with that. He said that we would have to trust him - and for the time being we have little to lose in doing so. The young players, for me, will be the element that gives us the most conclusive evidence of where we will be going with Yogi, and therefore, when they are back, that is when the board have to make tough decisions.

[(((Fergus)))]

Time isn't against us. When that iceberg get's a little closer, then make the change, but not worth worrying about yet.

IF things don't change - last season is gone now, out the window, Yogi neither gets credit for getting into a European spot, nor criticism for the poor results at the end of last season - then things will get real when the youngsters get back. If he can't make them and a few other players into a better team, because we are dependant on that youth, then he's not the man to take the club forward, and will be made to walk.

However, we have time. Yogi said that this would take time, that his plan was long term, so we have to go along with that. He said that we would have to trust him - and for the time being we have little to lose in doing so. The young players, for me, will be the element that gives us the most conclusive evidence of where we will be going with Yogi, and therefore, when they are back, that is when the board have to make tough decisions.

trouble is yogi is not only ignorant, he's fooled himself into thinking he's a "philosopher of the game".

thick + arrogant = stay thick

[Don Giovanni]

...and a full scale essay isn't "over analysing" the situation, 500miles???

Agree with Lyons "analysis". We've got what we deserved out of the games - not a lot. The performance level is worrying, particularly the lack of fight, courage and determination in that side (thats the manager AND the players fault). ICT and Hamilton fully deserved thier points - no question. Either side in those two matches COULD have sneaked a winner but a point apiece was fair. To say we were unlucky is ridiculous.
We could simplify the analysis further though, by using the same yard stick the league uses to seperate teams... points... and IMO 2pts from games against St.Midden away, ICT home, Accies home is definitely not good enough...

[Phil D. Rolls]

trouble is yogi is not only ignorant, he's fooled himself into thinking he's a "philosopher of the game".

thick + arrogant = stay thick

He's like some of these people who try to get on the X Factor. In their mind they are truly great performers, because they are so stupid they don't no what a great performer is.

[SRHibs]

When was the last time we actually played entertaining football?
We're *****, and the negativity and misery is more than justified.

[BEEJ]

Your OP didn't mention the golden chance for Hamilton towards the end of yesterday's match which could just as easily have gone in rather than past the post. ICT had a similar opportunity towards the end of last week's match but the shot was over the bar. Both instances could be considered unlucky for the opposition and lucky for us.

We're certainly not getting the rub of the green but our performances are completely unconvincing and have been, with the occasional rare exception, for some months now.


However, we have time. Yogi said that this would take time, that his plan was long term, so we have to go along with that.
More and more that is looking like the desperate plea for survival from someone who is out of his depth and hasn't a clue what he is doing.

The trick is to keep pointing to some false dawn on the horizon to deflect criticism from what we all see in the here and now.


He said that we would have to trust him - and for the time being we have little to lose in doing so.
Trust has to be earned.

And unfortunately we have potentially a lot to lose if he stays and fails to turn things around in the next month or so. Timing will be everything

[500miles]

People seem to be under the impression that my OP said we are playing well. We're not. But we are making up more crap to be pissed off about - like analysing handshake practices and players who need to be moved on's contracts running down. Yes, there are a few good players there too - but it's rarely not the case that these guys want to take a look at thier options before putting pen to paper.

When people ask what I think about Yogi, I'm only putting an opinion forward here. As for Yogi seeming to make desperate pleas about time, that's garbage - he said it would take time even at the start when we were winning.

At the moment we have nothing to lose in putting our trust in the manager who has a long term plan for the team. If, in a few months time, it doesn't look like that plan is coming together with most of the pieces in place - ie. the young players - then that's when decisions have to be made.

[BEEJ]

When people ask what I think about Yogi, I'm only putting an opinion forward here. As for Yogi seeming to make desperate pleas about time, that's garbage - he said it would take time even at the start when we were winning.
I don't deny that he's been saying it since he arrived. However, the longer he goes on repeating this mantra in the absence of any progress on the field of play, the more it sounds like a weak, desperate excuse from someone who is out of their depth and in denial.


At the moment we have nothing to lose in putting our trust in the manager who has a long term plan for the team. If, in a few months time, it doesn't look like that plan is coming together with most of the pieces in place - ie. the young players - then that's when decisions have to be made.
What is this long-term plan? How do you know he has a robust, well-worked out plan of action that he is following? If his desire to develop the squad depended on his retaining the likes of Stokes, what was his back-up plan should key players like that be moved on?

Ultimately, what evidence do we have of progress that would suggest that there is a plan being worked to?

And why should everything hinge on the return of the youngsters currently out on loan? If Moyes is allowed to return in January he will have been out on loan for 18 months. Are you suddenly expecting him, Taggart and Flynn to feature regularly in the first team and turn our fortunes around?

Again there is no evidence that Hughes has the capacity to nurture and develop our young talent. Witness Wotherspoon being played on the left yet again yesterday, a shadow of his former self.

[IndieHibby]

Dodgy spelling aside

Bad form. :rolleyes:

[500miles]

I don't deny that he's been saying it since he arrived. However, the longer he goes on repeating this mantra in the absence of any progress on the field of play, the more it sounds like a weak, desperate excuse from someone who is out of their depth and in denial.
Why would he be in denial when we were winning games? Even at the time, he said he wanted us to play better than we were, and acknowleged that there should be better coming from those players. He's maintaining his line because he knew in the first place that he was coming into a difficult job. Expectations at Hibs ARE too high. Hughes knows it, Billy Reid knew it, and the players are feeling it. Lyon said that we should be beating teams like Hamilton comfortably. Why? These are all guys who have spent time in the top division. . Inverness haven't lost a game on the road since last November!

Expectation is a huge thing. It's something lesser teams use to thier advantage. If you set out to frustrate a team who are expected to go out and win comfortably, then they break ranks, loose shape and become unmotivated and lose morale - and this is doubly so when the fans get on the players backs. Just look at the Old Firm. The difference is, they have the winning mentality because they are at teams who battle it out for the champioship every year, and have players who have seen and done it all in Scotland. We have some hard workers that have been around, but never been at clubs that have the winning mentality. The player we do have that have been invovled in that winning mentality, Liam Miller 1.tries to do too much, when he should be keeping things simpler and 2. lost that winning mentality when he fell down the english leagues. This is what Yogi means expectation is too high.

What is this long-term plan? How do you know he has a robust, well-worked out plan of action that he is following? If his desire to develop the squad depended on his retaining the likes of Stokes, what was his back-up plan should key players like that be moved on?
Did he not say he had a 5 year plan? I don't think he saw Stokes staying around for five years. He will have known that he would have to adapt and change throughout the course of that process.

Ultimately, what evidence do we have of progress that would suggest that there is a plan being worked to?

We achieved a European spot, our highest finish in the league since TM, we have brought in players of European experience and pedigree, who have a history of playing a certain type of football. We have youngsters out on loan, with players in, on short term contracts, who we can try and extend if they are good enough, or let run down thier time if the youngsters come back of the required quality. I don't think it's any coincidence the likes of Grounds time runs out at ER when Booth is due back

And why should everything hinge on the return of the youngsters currently out on loan? If Moyes is allowed to return in January he will have been out on loan for 18 months. Are you suddenly expecting him, Taggart and Flynn to feature regularly in the first team and turn our fortunes around?

I will be expecting them to feature, but I expect inconsistant displays from them. Once again, we will have to be patient with the youngsters, and accept that they will need to find thier feet before we can take ourselves to the next level. This is why it was a 5 year plan, and not a 2 year plan.

Again there is no evidence that Hughes has the capacity to nurture and develop our young talent. Witness Wotherspoon being played on the left yet again yesterday, a shadow of his former self.
He's produced players who have got moves upwards from Falkirk. Gow to Rangers, Barr to the national side, Arfield, Duffy and Stokes to England, and then Stokes to Celtic - a team that weren't even considering him when we signed him. All steps up from thier previous clubs.

Wotherspoon is struggling at the moment. However, Whittaker went through a similar period under Mowbray - to the point where the .net boards were crying out for Jay Shields to be given a run. There are few youngsters that come through their developement without a slump. Wotherspoon can play across the midfield - he done so at under 19's level, and played in behind the striker for Scotland. At right wing back he had some good games and some bad games - with the inconsitancies that you expected from a 19 year old.

[john18722]

1. Last season is over. We got through to Europe, we won our last game, and that winless streak, as Yogi mentioned were against the top teams, and a Derby. In fact, in the 1-0 defeat against Rangers, Colin Nish had a goal chopped off for absolutely nothing with 5 minutes to go. So there's a wee slice of bad luck for you, right there. There have been poor performances, but like I said, and ANY manager will tell you this, you need to get that wee bit of luck when you are in a slump, to help the players kick on. Look at Hearts - they're having a good spell just now, but when your success is based on getting goals from Calum Elliot, I refuse to believe that you've not had your fair share of luck.

2. You make your own luck isn't really true though is it? What is true is that, over the course of a season, chances are fortunate and unfortunate events tend to balance each other out. What isn't going for us at the current time, may well be what goes for us in 3 weeks time, at which point the players take a bit of confidence from that, and start to create more attacking situations that only need a bit of luck to go cause goals.

3. Aye I've heard this "Beating them comfortably". Billy Ried know this about the Hibs supports mentality. Aye, Hearts did hump them, as did Aberdeen, and they got turfed out of the Scottish cup by Raith. However, they went on to beat Inverness, played well against Rangers, and then drew with us. I don't think it's any coincidence that this improvement in fortunes coincided with the signing of Hasselbaink - who caused us all sorts of problems. It also coincided with Ried finding a settled defensive system too.

4. Swearing doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is the attitude "Well, i've paid my money, so I can say what I like." when actually, no, that basically flawed. You have NO right to shout and swear, so stop acting like you are beyond reproach, when the ticket, which they seem to think gives them the right to say what ever they like, clearly states that they are not permitted to be verbally abusive. Clubs don't enforce it, rightly so, but there is no "Right" to spout the pish that they do. If they want to give out the "Rights" line, with a strange officious zeal, the should probably know the rules. If they accept that they have no right, then fair enough.

Be quiet please

[CraigHibee]

Cos we are sh*t :dunno:
Cos we are boring to watch :dunno:
Cos we have no structure :dunno:
Cos we have a numpty in charge who talks nonsense:dunno:


its a bit like a maths equasion!

numpty in charge = boring to watch + no structure + sh*t

[BEEJ]

He's produced players who have got moves upwards from Falkirk. Gow to Rangers, Barr to the national side, Arfield, Duffy and Stokes to England, and then Stokes to Celtic - a team that weren't even considering him when we signed him. All steps up from thier previous clubs.

Wotherspoon is struggling at the moment. However, Whittaker went through a similar period under Mowbray - to the point where the .net boards were crying out for Jay Shields to be given a run. There are few youngsters that come through their developement without a slump. Wotherspoon can play across the midfield - he done so at under 19's level, and played in behind the striker for Scotland. At right wing back he had some good games and some bad games - with the inconsitancies that you expected from a 19 year old.
You don't keep playing a youngster through a slump in the hope that he'll somehow snap out of it, particularly when he is often being asked to fill different positions.

Whilst your continued support for Yogi is commendable, there comes a point where it is as blinkered as those who have refused to see any good in him since he arrived.

And as for your argument about expectations, I am tired of being told that my expectations are too high. Are you telling me that two points out of a possible nine against St Mirren, ICT and Hamilton either met or exceeded your expectations? Just what points haul from these three fixtures would you have regarded as acceptable?

If that is what our expectation levels have to be now then best we all strap ourselves in for another 'adventure' in the First Division. Remember that the second half of our season is routinely poorer than the first. We don't have the luxury of throwing away league points in this way to teams that will probably be in the bottom six next year post-split.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

To suggest that the state we are in just now, is all down to what fans saw and did on Saturday past is just nonsense. In January, we went one up in seconds against the league champions at home and the reason, quite plausible, that we did not go on to take three points was because the players took stock of the situation and took fright. Fast forward nine months, and we go one up against a team at the other end of the table, and the reason, once again that we did not go on to take three points is that the players took stock of the situation and took fright? Nine months to work on mental toughness and no progress?? No good enough, No near good enough. While I won't boo the team, or the manager [and Hughes is making it plain that he thinks the fans are booing the team and not booing him], the job of turning our team around is not an open ended invitation.