Yogi needs experienced help

[Ants]

After reading through todays comments (and also the 1st leg comments), could this be the solution......

Yogi is far too narrow minded with regards to tactics, he seems oblivious to the changes that are required, stuck in his ways, calls the wrong tune etc, etc.

I have called him tactially inept on a few occasions and this statement is now becoming prominantly true.

He needs a stronger more resolute assistant with more previous experience, good footballing knowledge, tactical awareness and a winning mentality who is strong on expressing opinions to the benefit of the team.

No disrespect to Brian Rice, Yogi is gonna be out on a a managerial limb soon if things do not turn, no-one remembers the bridesmaid!

Hibs should try to bring in someone with some calibre, managerial professionalism and astute footballing knowledge to help out, open to offers...

In most businesses, "the guru" is welcomed and appreciated because its all a win, win, win situation.

Yogi has got his managerial experience from Falkirk, he has willingly taken the step up from there to Hibs and appears to be stumbling a little, but this could be resolved as per above.

Many hands make light work...

[Baldy Foghorn]

After reading through todays comments (and also the 1st leg comments), could this be the solution......

Yogi is far too narrow minded with regards to tactics, he seems oblivious to the changes that are required, stuck in his ways, calls the wrong tune etc, etc.

I have called him tactially inept on a few occasions and this statement is now becoming prominantly true.

He needs a stronger more resolute assistant with more previous experience, good footballing knowledge, tactical awareness and a winning mentality who is strong on expressing opinions to the benefit of the team.

No disrespect to Brian Rice, Yogi is gonna be out on a a managerial limb soon if things do not turn, no-one remembers the bridesmaid!

Hibs should try to bring in someone with some calibre, managerial professionalism and astute footballing knowledge to help out, open to offers...

In most businesses, "the guru" is welcomed and appreciated because its all a win, win, win situation.

Yogi has got his managerial experience from Falkirk, he has willingly taken the step up from there to Hibs and appears to be stumbling a little, but this could be resolved as per above.

Many hands make light work...

Dont think Yogi would take kindly to being offered an experienced head to call upon.....

[HFC 0-7]

After reading through todays comments (and also the 1st leg comments), could this be the solution......

Yogi is far too narrow minded with regards to tactics, he seems oblivious to the changes that are required, stuck in his ways, calls the wrong tune etc, etc.

I have called him tactially inept on a few occasions and this statement is now becoming prominantly true.

He needs a stronger more resolute assistant with more previous experience, good footballing knowledge, tactical awareness and a winning mentality who is strong on expressing opinions to the benefit of the team.

No disrespect to Brian Rice, Yogi is gonna be out on a a managerial limb soon if things do not turn, no-one remembers the bridesmaid!

Hibs should try to bring in someone with some calibre, managerial professionalism and astute footballing knowledge to help out, open to offers...

In most businesses, "the guru" is welcomed and appreciated because its all a win, win, win situation.

Yogi has got his managerial experience from Falkirk, he has willingly taken the step up from there to Hibs and appears to be stumbling a little, but this could be resolved as per above.

Many hands make light work...

I am confused! If you think his tactics are wrong and marrow minded etc what does he have to offer as a manager? From January he seemed unable to get the best out of any players so he was also failing on what he prides himself which is lifting players.

The only good thing Yogi has shown as a manager IMO is the ability to bring in a good player after that he struggles. there is no use in getting in good players if you cant play them properly.

Yogi seems to struggle with tactics.

He seems to be everyone friend and looks to have got to close to the players.

He struggles to play a player in the correct position. If Yogi had 10 amazing strikers he would ditch a good midfielder and play an amazing striker out of position ala Riordan playing on the left, or Spoony playing on the left and leaving the natural player on the bench.

Struggles to see a match unfold and make changes accordingly.



Why get someone in to help Yogi? If someone comes in to help him with tactics, player choices and stop him being narrow minded should we not just make that person the manager?

[Ants]

Dont think Yogi would take kindly to being offered an experienced head to call upon.....

If it would benefit the team, why not?

We all have to take a soft blow on the chin now and again....

[gorgie_harp]

Dont think Yogi would take kindly to being offered an experienced head to call upon.....

Yogi just needs a head.:wink::greengrin

[Ants]

I am confused! If you think his tactics are wrong and marrow minded etc what does he have to offer as a manager? From January he seemed unable to get the best out of any players so he was also failing on what he prides himself which is lifting players. ?

He is inexperienced at Hibs level.

The only good thing Yogi has shown as a manager IMO is the ability to bring in a good player after that he struggles. there is no use in getting in good players if you cant play them properly.

Yogi seems to struggle with tactics.?

Agree, but an experienced other should be able to help, 2 experienced minds are better than 1.

He seems to be everyone friend and looks to have got to close to the players.

I do not know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I have always disliked my dishonest boss, while others like him.

He struggles to play a player in the correct position. If Yogi had 10 amazing strikers he would ditch a good midfielder and play an amazing striker out of position ala Riordan playing on the left, or Spoony playing on the left and leaving the natural player on the bench.

Struggles to see a match unfold and make changes accordingly.

Why get someone in to help Yogi? If someone comes in to help him with tactics, player choices and stop him being narrow minded should we not just make that person the manager?

No, because he is inexperienced and needs help, he should learn from his mistakes and this should make him a better manager.


This thread is intended for positive/constructive thoughts only.

[HibeeSince85]

I am confused! If you think his tactics are wrong and marrow minded etc what does he have to offer as a manager? From January he seemed unable to get the best out of any players so he was also failing on what he prides himself which is lifting players.

The only good thing Yogi has shown as a manager IMO is the ability to bring in a good player after that he struggles. there is no use in getting in good players if you cant play them properly.

Yogi seems to struggle with tactics.

He seems to be everyone friend and looks to have got to close to the players.

He struggles to play a player in the correct position. If Yogi had 10 amazing strikers he would ditch a good midfielder and play an amazing striker out of position ala Riordan playing on the left, or Spoony playing on the left and leaving the natural player on the bench.

Struggles to see a match unfold and make changes accordingly.



Why get someone in to help Yogi? If someone comes in to help him with tactics, player choices and stop him being narrow minded should we not just make that person the manager?

I said this myself the other day, like Mixu he can spot a player although Miller and Stokes didn't really need much spotting, his main influence there was the fact he worked with Stokes at Falkirk but when it comes to setting out the team he's faling short big time.

Saying that though the season hasn't even started yet so we're going to have to see what happens in the next 6 to 8 weeks no matter what happens come Thursday.

[Brizo]

I get the impression that the one thing Yogi doesnt lack is self belief. I doubt very much if he thinks he needs the help the OP mentions , would seek such help out or welcome it if it was foisted on him. In fact I think Yogis probably one of these managers who wants to call all the shots and be the centre of all attention .... which is probably why Rice stays so far in the background and why Yogi selected the quiet uncharismatic Hogg as club captain.

[PaulSmith]

Hughes is absolutely resolute in his beliefs and unless he is sacked or proved right he will continue to do it his way, even to the point of visiting his own mind guru to ensure that he doesn't waiver.
Personally I want to see the John Hughes who'd kick ass, show passion, be humble enough to realise his own mistakes, play the strongest team and entertain in the manner that he professes to have watched the great Hibs teams of the past.

[(((Fergus)))]

I get the impression that the one thing Yogi doesnt lack is self belief. I doubt very much if he thinks he needs the help the OP mentions , would seek such help out or welcome it if it was foisted on him. In fact I think Yogis probably one of these managers who wants to call all the shots and be the centre of all attention .... which is probably why Rice stays so far in the background and why Yogi selected the quiet uncharismatic Hogg as club captain.

:agree: he thinks of himself as some kind of scholar of the game and has said as much on several occasions.

[truehibernian]

The fact that Hughes wanted to bring in a 39 year old ex junior footballer, employed at Stirling Uni, as a Director of Football at Hibs, just shows how misguided he is in management at times. More worrying was the fact that the person stated turned the opportunity down citing the fact that his current job was more secure :agree:

[erskine-hibby]

After reading through todays comments (and also the 1st leg comments), could this be the solution......

Yogi is far too narrow minded with regards to tactics, he seems oblivious to the changes that are required, stuck in his ways, calls the wrong tune etc, etc.

I have called him tactially inept on a few occasions and this statement is now becoming prominantly true.

He needs a stronger more resolute assistant with more previous experience, good footballing knowledge, tactical awareness and a winning mentality who is strong on expressing opinions to the benefit of the team.

No disrespect to Brian Rice, Yogi is gonna be out on a a managerial limb soon if things do not turn, no-one remembers the bridesmaid!

Hibs should try to bring in someone with some calibre, managerial professionalism and astute footballing knowledge to help out, open to offers...

In most businesses, "the guru" is welcomed and appreciated because its all a win, win, win situation.

Yogi has got his managerial experience from Falkirk, he has willingly taken the step up from there to Hibs and appears to be stumbling a little, but this could be resolved as per above.

Many hands make light work...

Sounds like you think Yogi isn't up to the task but are too in awe of him to say so.
Why bring someone else in and keep him there?
Surely this would undermine him. no??

[down the slope]

The fact that Hughes wanted to bring in a 39 year old ex junior footballer, employed at Stirling Uni, as a Director of Football at Hibs, just shows how misguided he is in management at times. More worrying was the fact that the person stated turned the opportunity down citing the fact that his current job was more secure :agree:

Who was that ?, have i missed something while i was away.

[No.4]

Well he was sat in the stand chatting away to Eddie Turnball for at least 6 games last season so I don't think that's the answer. Indeed, when you say many hands make light work, I would respond with too many cooks spoil the broth.

At the end of the day Yogi is the manager and gets paid to make these decisions. If the person you are talking about exists and is looking for work, then perhaps we should give him the job instead?

[truehibernian]

I spoke with Eddie last week and he was incredulous at the amount of pre-season games Hughes had committed the side to. In his words "the league's the bread and butter and they will be spent come first game of the season". He was however in right good spirits (and looks better without the beard :wink::greengrin)

[GRANTON_HIBS]

I'm sure at his job interview he gave a great presentation of his skills and vision and got the gig. A year or so later and he's been busted, found out, call it what you like, we all work with people who have talked themselves into jobs but are really U.S.
As said he tells us he's a scholar of the game so he doesnt need experienced help cos he's the man, maybe professional help though from the principal of the clown college.:greengrin

[Ants]

sounds like you think yogi isn't up to the task but are too in awe of him to say so.
I think he is inexperienced at managing hibs, he could handle falkirk but hibs have much more ambitious fans and as a club are ambitious.

why bring someone else in and keep him there?
To gain in experience and learn from any misakes made.

surely this would undermine him. No??
I would hope not, he has already held his hands up and admitted making a mistake, take advice would be my recommendation.


Keeping the thread positive.

[Ants]

Well he was sat in the stand chatting away to Eddie Turnball for at least 6 games last season so I don't think that's the answer. Indeed, when you say many hands make light work, I would respond with too many cooks spoil the broth.

Eddie was great in his day, but football has changed, we are now in the 21st century.
Training, Healthy eating and everyday mentality has changed (IE not playing for the jersey anymore, just taking a wage).

At the end of the day Yogi is the manager and gets paid to make these decisions. If the person you are talking about exists and is looking for work, then perhaps we should give him the job instead?
No, just advice would be sufficient. Everybody likes to think that they are the top dog at doing their job, outsiders looking in usually see them in a different prespective.

[truehibernian]

The fundamentals of football will never change though, regardless of changes in society. The best two lines I have heard from ex Hibernian managers were from Eddie and John Collins. The Collins one was of course "the ball is round, it's meant to roll".......Eddie's line to me was "I would tell the players to treat the football as they would their wife or lover. Love it, cherish it, caress the ball, and treat it with respect". No amount of isotonic drinks, nike sponsorship deals, or silly haircuts change both those very honest and true statements. Hibs players want to get rid of the ball as soon as they get it. They are scared to play football, take on a man, take the game to the opposition. Just my thoughts of course.

[No.4]

No, just advice would be sufficient. Everybody likes to think that they are the top dog at doing their job, outsiders looking in usually see them in a different prespective.


I understand where you're coming from but I just don't see it being the solution. I honestly don't see why Hughes would change his phillosophy because an outside adviser told him too.

You're points are valid about Turnball, but are you telling me he doesn't know how to set a team out who can pass a ball 10 yards and progress further up the pitch than the half way line? Regardless of his age I would guess he's still got that in his locker and certainly motivational advice.

[HFC 0-7]

This thread is intended for positive/constructive thoughts only.

There is no point in being positive if the reasons you quote are flawed. You want to bring in someone and pay them who is experienced and can teach hughes more about tactics etc. Well if we are bringing in someone who is experienced and paying them then why not just have them as a manager?

I may be missing the point but if hughes isnt up to scratch at the moment and you bring in someone with all the attributes that yogi needs to teach him then why not just bin Yogi and keep that man?

I think you are tryingto be a bit too positive and thinking of ways in which Yogi can succeed but in reality it would never work.

I am not trying to be negative I am just being realistic which unfortunately in the circumstances can only come across as negative.

[No.4]

I should add that I don't want to see JH out at the moment, just that if there's someone with all the answers I'd rather see them as a manager than someone stuck in an advisory role.

[Bookkeeper]

Yogi and a Guru... the Hibees turning all mystical? :wink:

[vahibbie]

Yogi and a Guru... the Hibees turning all mystical? :wink:

We already have mystery tactics and team selections:wink:

[Jack]

I've suggested this for our 2 previous managers.
.
Hibs select novice managers, and having only been at one previous club I'd say Yogi is still a beginner.
.
Scholars [even footballer ones] learn from those who are more experienced - who here hasn't been on a training course at work? Senior managers in all walks of life get one to one coaching. Why should football be different?
.
Someone who maybe doesn't want to be involved in full time management at the moment could be what is needed. Someone who can take a look at how games have gone, whats been good and whats not so good. Someone who been there before.
.
I dont just think of this for Yogi but for any club.

[erskine-hibby]

I've suggested this for our 2 previous managers.
.
Hibs select novice managers, and having only been at one previous club I'd say Yogi is still a beginner.
.
Scholars [even footballer ones] learn from those who are more experienced - who here hasn't been on a training course at work? Senior managers in all walks of life get one to one coaching. Why should football be different?
.
Someone who maybe doesn't want to be involved in full time management at the moment could be what is needed. Someone who can take a look at how games have gone, whats been good and whats not so good. Someone who been there before.
.
I dont just think of this for Yogi but for any club.

Cannot see this working at all.
1. Can't see Yogi wanting to take a back seat about team selection and tactics...i.e. in essence being number 2.

2. Can't see anyone wanting to take the position on and if they did they would want their own man.

Total non starter IMHO.

[RickyS]

Who was that ?, have i missed something while i was away.

me tae?

[Jack]

Cannot see this working at all.
1. Can't see Yogi wanting to take a back seat about team selection and tactics...i.e. in essence being number 2.

2. Can't see anyone wanting to take the position on and if they did they would want their own man.

Total non starter IMHO.

I think you’ve maybe misunderstood what I was trying to say Erskine.

I’m maybe thinking of something that’s not been tried before.

The ‘method’ I’m thinking of still has the manager, Yogi, being responsible for the team selection and tactics, in fact everything he is now.

What I’m think of is more a mentor role, some ‘expert’, a tutor, who Yogi and BR (or whoever the management team is) can sit down with – someone who is not involved in the day to day running of the squad. It needn’t, and I wouldn’t think it would be a full time post or the one person, but someone with the relevant experience who comes in now and again, who can discuss where things have gone wrong and even where they’ve gone right and challenge the managers thinking on what options are available to him and how he can take these forward.

As I’ve said senior managers and even the chairmen of multi-national companies have people who coach them. Its not because these chairmen aren’t up to the job, its not because they are failing – its because they know that by peer, or expert, review what they can do they can do even better. There’s no question of a shift of responsibility.

It’s a foolish man who thinks only he has the ability to teach himself.


But you're right. Unless that person / method was in place before the manager was employed they are likely to be resistant to the idea.

Football has become far too macho for its own good, super uber managers and mavericks apart, most appear to be so single-mindedly wrapped up in their own philosophy they cant accept what they're doing might not be the only way forward.

[ahibby]

Churchy's thread about losing to Hamilton and St Johnstone etc adds to the strength of this topic, in my view. I think one of the reasons last season when we got cuffed up at St Johnstone was that Yogi didn't have the team up for a fight from kick off. The approach about keeping the ball and wait and see what opens up isn't going to work against teams who are going to come at us from the off with all guns blazing. We must go in to matches with fight in our bellies from the start or we could get caught like rabbits in the headlights as we have seen on a few occasions. Whether Yogi needs someone else to help him instill that, I don't know but if he did then it wouldn't be Yogis way would it?

[HFC 0-7]

Churchy's thread about losing to Hamilton and St Johnstone etc adds to the strength of this topic, in my view. I think one of the reasons last season when we got cuffed up at St Johnstone was that Yogi didn't have the team up for a fight from kick off. The approach about keeping the ball and wait and see what opens up isn't going to work against teams who are going to come at us from the off with all guns blazing. We must go in to matches with fight in our bellies from the start or we could get caught like rabbits in the headlights as we have seen on a few occasions. Whether Yogi needs someone else to help him instill that, I don't know but if he did then it wouldn't be Yogis way would it?

So yogi couldnt get the team up for it, he cant get the right tactics and we are generally un prepared! What part of Yogi's managerial credentials do you think warrant him being the hibs manager. there may be a case for getting someone to help Yogi if he struggled with one small point, but not being able to get a team up for it, personel choices and tactics are the bread and butter of a managers credentials. If a player doesnt have talent we wouldnt still play him and hope he can be coached through we would get someone better in! I think you are touching on the point at the end of your post, to fix all of Yogi's problems the team would basically be managed from another person.

I had high hopes for Yogi when he came to hibs but it looks like he is way out his depth, he has good ideas about how the game should be played but these are dreams when you look at hibs resources. He is hard headed and struggles to acknowledge when something isnt working and when he finnaly does its too late. I think that Yogi has all the best interests of the club in mind but he just doesnt have the skills to be a good manager, looking back at his appointment I dont think he would have been considered had he not been a hibby.

[Ritchie]

only thing yogi needs is his P45

[ahibby]

So yogi couldnt get the team up for it, he cant get the right tactics and we are generally un prepared! What part of Yogi's managerial credentials do you think warrant him being the hibs manager. there may be a case for getting someone to help Yogi if he struggled with one small point, but not being able to get a team up for it, personel choices and tactics are the bread and butter of a managers credentials. If a player doesnt have talent we wouldnt still play him and hope he can be coached through we would get someone better in! I think you are touching on the point at the end of your post, to fix all of Yogi's problems the team would basically be managed from another person.

I had high hopes for Yogi when he came to hibs but it looks like he is way out his depth, he has good ideas about how the game should be played but these are dreams when you look at hibs resources. He is hard headed and struggles to acknowledge when something isnt working and when he finnaly does its too late. I think that Yogi has all the best interests of the club in mind but he just doesnt have the skills to be a good manager, looking back at his appointment I dont think he would have been considered had he not been a hibby.

It is difficult to see how Yogis tactics and general approach to the game justify his presence at ER. I think his appointment strengthens the 'Hibs Family' marketing approach that Hibs are taking but I am concerned that Yogis approach is often lacking. One benefit of doubt that he might be given is that Zemmama has been missing from action for a while and in my opinion he is the most creative player at the club. With him our results since January might well have faired better. However, managers have to deal with that and come up with something different and a solution. I don't think he has and I don't know if he meant to say that he won't change things in a game but that's what I think I heard him say. I am concerened big time if no matter what, he is determined to stick to plan A. A manager needs more than passion having identified the players with the hunger to win he needs to flourish that and let it grow and not stifle it by what I describe as negative football, i.e. aimless passing. He can't blame players for aimless passing, if that is what is happening he needs to change it, but he says he is not in to changing things. So back to my first point.

[HFC 0-7]

It is difficult to see how Yogis tactics and general approach to the game justify his presence at ER. I think his appointment strengthens the 'Hibs Family' marketing approach that Hibs are taking but I am concerned that Yogis approach is often lacking. One benefit of doubt that he might be given is that Zemmama has been missing from action for a while and in my opinion he is the most creative player at the club. With him our results since January might well have faired better. However, managers have to deal with that and come up with something different and a solution. I don't think he has and I don't know if he meant to say that he won't change things in a game but that's what I think I heard him say. I am concerened big time if no matter what, he is determined to stick to plan A. A manager needs more than passion having identified the players with the hunger to win he needs to flourish that and let it grow and not stifle it by what I describe as negative football, i.e. aimless passing. He can't blame players for aimless passing, if that is what is happening he needs to change it, but he says he is not in to changing things. So back to my first point.

Totally agree, if results are bad since January its either the players not playing or the managers tactics, either way the manager is the one responsible. He is responsible for tactics but also for player choice and performance. If they arent performing they should be helped to do so, if they still cant or wont they should be shown the door.

Last season towards the end I would say it was a bit of both, tactics and players not performing. As much as I like Yogi as a person I think he isnt the man for the Hibs hotseat!

[erskine-hibby]

Seems as though septic have taken on Stuart Baxter as a consulting manager, so maybe there is a call for this kind of thing in football. My only problem is that I don't think Yogi would but up for this.