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F'Res Hibbie
22-12-2009, 04:52 PM
Haha how much of a bellend is Ray Parlour on SSN just now?! GB is completely out arguing him.

Bob1875
22-12-2009, 04:55 PM
EPL for me all day long. Best league in the world unfortunatley.

millarco
22-12-2009, 04:59 PM
Haha how much of a bellend is Ray Parlour on SSN just now?! GB is completely out arguing him.

Totally agree, Parlour looked foolish. Really undermined any point he was trying to make.

F'Res Hibbie
22-12-2009, 05:06 PM
EPL for me all day long. Best league in the world unfortunatley.

This time last year I'd have maybe agreed with you however how can the premiership be the best league when the current best 5 football players on the planet all play in La Liga?

Hainan Hibs
22-12-2009, 05:10 PM
Agreed, I constantly piss myself because i can't control the excitement that games like Bolton vs Stoke, Hull vs Wolves, and Wigan vs West ham bring.

La Liga by a country mile, and a half.

matty_f
22-12-2009, 05:39 PM
Agreed, I constantly piss myself because i can't control the excitement that games like Bolton vs Stoke, Hull vs Wolves, and Wigan vs West ham bring.

La Liga by a country mile, and a half.

That's comparable with the games with the crap teams in La Liga, though.

The only Spanish game I'd really burst a gut to see would be the Barca v Real Madrid game, outside of that, if it's not either of those two against someone then I'm generally not that interested.

Same goes for games like Bolton v Stoke, btw - I'm not bothered about watching that, but put any of the 'Big 4' against either each other or someone else, and I'd watch it, and I'd include Man City in that these days as well.

F'Res Hibbie
22-12-2009, 06:01 PM
That's comparable with the games with the crap teams in La Liga, though.

The only Spanish game I'd really burst a gut to see would be the Barca v Real Madrid game, outside of that, if it's not either of those two against someone then I'm generally not that interested.

Same goes for games like Bolton v Stoke, btw - I'm not bothered about watching that, but put any of the 'Big 4' against either each other or someone else, and I'd watch it, and I'd include Man City in that these days as well.

How much has that to do with the proximity of Scotland and England and you could add the high exposure people in Scotland have to EPL advertising though? If you were to discount the Portugese (who, I would guess, would be exposed to the same sort of thing with La Liga) I wonder how the rest of Europe view the two leagues.

Personally I am more interested in the EPL than La Liga but it's hard to argue that the EPL is better this season; just look at the high profile departures it suffered in the summer - all to La Liga

Sir David Gray
22-12-2009, 07:15 PM
How much has that to do with the proximity of Scotland and England and you could add the high exposure people in Scotland have to EPL advertising though? If you were to discount the Portugese (who, I would guess, would be exposed to the same sort of thing with La Liga) I wonder how the rest of Europe view the two leagues.

Personally I am more interested in the EPL than La Liga but it's hard to argue that the EPL is better this season; just look at the high profile departures it suffered in the summer - all to La Liga

:agree: Totally agree with this point. I think that is why a lot of people in Scotland will say that the Premiership is better than La Liga, and I say that as someone who would watch English football over Spanish football.

People in Scotland are exposed to English football on pretty much a daily basis, we know all about the players of practically all the teams, even the unfashionable sides, whereas when it comes to Spain, most of us only really hear about players from Real Madrid and Barcelona, along with a couple of players from the other teams, due to their participation in the Champions League etc.

I would definitely watch a game like Wolves v Burnley over a game like Getafe v Tenerife.

I don't even bother too much with the Real Madrid v Barcelona match. If it's on and I'm doing nothing else then I would probably watch it but if I wasn't able to see it then it wouldn't be the end of the world for me.

It would be totally different if Man Utd v Chelsea was on. I would probably go out of my way to make sure I saw that.

I think all of the above is down to the reasons that you have already outlined.

matty_f
22-12-2009, 07:18 PM
:agree: Totally agree with this point. I think that is why a lot of people in Scotland will say that the Premiership is better than La Liga, and I say that as someone who would watch English football over Spanish football.

People in Scotland are exposed to English football on pretty much a daily basis, we know all about the players of practically all the teams, even the unfashionable sides, whereas when it comes to Spain, most of us only really hear about players from Real Madrid and Barcelona, along with a couple of players from the other teams, due to their participation in the Champions League etc.

I would definitely watch a game like Wolves v Burnley over a game like Getafe v Tenerife.

I don't even bother too much with the Real Madrid v Barcelona match. If it's on and I'm doing nothing else then I would probably watch it but if I wasn't able to see it then it wouldn't be the end of the world for me.

It would be totally different if Man Utd v Chelsea was on. I would probably go out of my way to make sure I saw that.

I think all of the above is down to the reasons that you have already outlined.

Dunno if I agree - I'm exposed to a lot of Scottish football, and I'd go out of my way NOT to watch half of it. In fact, anything other than Hibs games I have very little interest in watching.

Also get a lot of exposure to the Championship, and I couldn't tell you the last game I watched at that level.

cleanyman
22-12-2009, 07:20 PM
La Liga for me:agree:

F'Res Hibbie
22-12-2009, 07:21 PM
Dunno if I agree - I'm exposed to a lot of Scottish football, and I'd go out of my way NOT to watch half of it. In fact, anything other than Hibs games I have very little interest in watching.

Also get a lot of exposure to the Championship, and I couldn't tell you the last game I watched at that level.

Good point, although let's be fair to advertising - it's not a miracle worker - you can only polish *****e so much. :greengrin

matty_f
22-12-2009, 07:32 PM
Good point, although let's be fair to advertising - it's not a miracle worker - you can only polish *****e so much. :greengrin

:greengrin Good shout!

HibbyAndy
22-12-2009, 07:43 PM
Does anyone hink the big 4 might get split up this year?

GC
22-12-2009, 07:45 PM
Does anyone hink the big 4 might get split up this year?

Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal will be there.

Villa or Spurs for Liverpool's place.

Mixu62
22-12-2009, 07:46 PM
Looking beyond the top 4 or 5 clubs in each country, I'd pick La Liga. Just look at their derby's in Seville, Valencia the Basque region etc. Far more passionate and far better technique from even the average players. And it's a lot sunnier!! Try comparing Blackburn v Bolton to that.

renato
22-12-2009, 10:13 PM
Watched a fair bit of La Liga since it's been on Sky Sports and the quality is better than the EPL, IMO.

The likes of Getafe and Sporting are better technically than teams like Birmingham and Stoke.

Seen some great games recently involving Valencia, Villarreal, Atletico and especially Sevilla. I also think the mid table teams in Spain are stronger than the EPL.

As FH has mentioned, the top 5 players in the world (FIFA) and top 6 out of 7 (Ballon d'Or) are there too....

If you don't watch any of the games and instead prefer EPL dross like Wolves v Hull, you really are missing out. Each to their own I guess.

Sir David Gray
22-12-2009, 10:32 PM
Does anyone hink the big 4 might get split up this year?

Either Aston Villa or Tottenham will be in the top four this year, I think.

Liverpool have no chance of being in the top four.

Pedantic_Hibee
22-12-2009, 11:39 PM
Not even taking into account that the quality of player in La Liga is better, the referees over there make it the best league in the world by themselves.

They're absolutely effin' bonkers :greengrin

CB_NO3
22-12-2009, 11:57 PM
I think in La Liga their players are much more technically gifted and have better players. But if I was backing Real Madrid to play Chelsea, Man Utd or Arsenal my money would be on the English teams as Madrid cant defend at all. Barca are in a world off their own though, they are just outragous to watch and are that good. I think the EPL is defo better than La Liga as teams like Tottenham, Aston Villa and Man City are better than your Valencias, and Deportivos etc these days but maybe not as good as Seville. You only have to look at the champions league over the last 3 or 4 years to see English teams do dominate.

I hate how people say the EPL is rubbish because you can watch games like Bolton V Stoke or Birmingham V Wigan. Am sure if you watched Getafe V Bilbao or Sporting Gijon V Almeria they would be just as boring. The fact is every league in the world has great games and every league has boring games, and that goes from the Premiership to La Liga to the 2nd division in Norway to my wee brothers under 16s league.

wee 162
23-12-2009, 12:26 AM
I think in La Liga their players are much more technically gifted and have better players. But if I was backing Real Madrid to play Chelsea, Man Utd or Arsenal my money would be on the English teams as Madrid cant defend at all. Barca are in a world off their own though, they are just outragous to watch and are that good. I think the EPL is defo better than La Liga as teams like Tottenham, Aston Villa and Man City are better than your Valencias, and Deportivos etc these days but maybe not as good as Seville. You only have to look at the champions league over the last 3 or 4 years to see English teams do dominate.

I hate how people say the EPL is rubbish because you can watch games like Bolton V Stoke or Birmingham V Wigan. Am sure if you watched Getafe V Bilbao or Sporting Gijon V Almeria they would be just as boring. The fact is every league in the world has great games and every league has boring games, and that goes from the Premiership to La Liga to the 2nd division in Norway to my wee brothers under 16s league.

They've won 1 of them? 2 in total over the last decade. Same number total as Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Milan have won each in that time period. Man United have won as many European Cups in the last decade as Porto. Chelsea have been to as many finals as Bayer Leverkusen.

This is not to say English fitba is crap. But the dominance in the Champions League thing is wildly overstated.

CB_NO3
23-12-2009, 12:35 AM
They've won 1 of them? 2 in total over the last decade. Same number total as Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Milan have won each in that time period. Man United have won as many European Cups in the last decade as Porto. Chelsea have been to as many finals as Bayer Leverkusen.

This is not to say English fitba is crap. But the dominance in the Champions League thing is wildly overstated.
I wasn't necessarily talking about winning it, but in the last 2 season, 3 out of the 4 teams in the Semi Finals have been English.

Thigh ar la
23-12-2009, 01:38 AM
Aye just press play on the Champions League/EPL CD Mercenary football League Part 8!
Bilbao v Racing Club Santander any day and at least involves a tem wearing the green!:agree:

Winston Ingram
23-12-2009, 06:30 AM
Agreed, I constantly piss myself because i can't control the excitement that games like Bolton vs Stoke, Hull vs Wolves, and Wigan vs West ham bring.

La Liga by a country mile, and a half.

I can't control the excitement games like Xerex v Almeria, Malaga v Sporting Gijon, Osasuna v Valladolid, Espanyol v Malaga bring
:cool2:

Dashing Bob S
23-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Football wise, La Liga.

The staggering amount of money in the EPL has made it but is also paradoxically killing it. Probably about 12-14 EPL clubs, possibly more, are set up to avoid relegation. It makes for pretty dull viewing outside the glory hunter clubs of Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, though has got more interesting this year with City, Spurs and possibly Villa trying to join that pack and Liverpool probably falling out of it.

NORTHERNHIBBY
23-12-2009, 09:52 AM
I think that the quality of the football in La Liga is better to watch. I have seen some lower league football in Spain, [ CD Lanzarotte] and although some of quality is not that great, it is still played the correct way. The commentators for English football, especially the tele ones seems to be versed in re-inventing the game down there week in week out. Pass and move sides like the big four are set as examples of how to play in the EPL, but next week you could get a grunt and punt non-stop 90 minutes between Stoke and Bolton and suddenly that is great rip-snorter of English football, not to mention getting traditionally dewy-eyed about the third round of the FA.Cup.

J-C
23-12-2009, 09:57 AM
At the moment La Liga is of better quality than EPL, the really big names of football are being attracted to their league again and the EPL has gone down in standards. Liverpool, Man U, Everton, etc all struggling for money and can't afford the quality players they did in the past.

Hibs Spain
23-12-2009, 10:04 AM
:agree: Totally agree with this point. I think that is why a lot of people in Scotland will say that the Premiership is better than La Liga, and I say that as someone who would watch English football over Spanish football.

People in Scotland are exposed to English football on pretty much a daily basis, we know all about the players of practically all the teams, even the unfashionable sides, whereas when it comes to Spain, most of us only really hear about players from Real Madrid and Barcelona, along with a couple of players from the other teams, due to their participation in the Champions League etc.

I would definitely watch a game like Wolves v Burnley over a game like Getafe v Tenerife.

I don't even bother too much with the Real Madrid v Barcelona match. If it's on and I'm doing nothing else then I would probably watch it but if I wasn't able to see it then it wouldn't be the end of the world for me.

It would be totally different if Man Utd v Chelsea was on. I would probably go out of my way to make sure I saw that.

I think all of the above is down to the reasons that you have already outlined.I think people in Scotland might say they prefer watching EPL games and that's because they're more familiar with that league and will generally have a favourite team and a few others that they have a soft spot for. They will also be familiar with most of the names of the players and have an interest seeing how they're doing at different clubs etc.. But the standard of football in La Liga is better IMO .. eg Malaga who are,i think 3rd bottom right now would be in the top half of the EPL. A fair reflection in the contrasting standards would be the last meeting between the international sides a few months ago. Spain literally toyed with England. Granted there are players from other countries playing in the EPL but I think that last international match about sums the difference up :agree:

Cabbage East
23-12-2009, 10:05 AM
la liga by a fair distance

Hainan Hibs
23-12-2009, 01:16 PM
I can't control the excitement games like Xerex v Almeria, Malaga v Sporting Gijon, Osasuna v Valladolid, Espanyol v Malaga bring
:cool2:

Guaranteed you won't have to watch punt it to the big man up front 4-5-1 pish that the EPL brings in most games outside the big 4.

Green Mikey
23-12-2009, 01:28 PM
I think that the quality of the football in La Liga is better to watch. I have seen some lower league football in Spain, [ CD Lanzarotte] and although some of quality is not that great, it is still played the correct way. The commentators for English football, especially the tele ones seems to be versed in re-inventing the game down there week in week out. Pass and move sides like the big four are set as examples of how to play in the EPL, but next week you could get a grunt and punt non-stop 90 minutes between Stoke and Bolton and suddenly that is great rip-snorter of English football, not to mention getting traditionally dewy-eyed about the third round of the FA.Cup.

The 3rd round of the FA cup really annoys me, there is about 6 or 7 rounds prior to it. By no stretch of the imagination can it be a third round, it is a marketing ploy and that is fully supported by the English media.

allyhibee
23-12-2009, 02:12 PM
I can't control the excitement games like Xerex v Almeria, Malaga v Sporting Gijon, Osasuna v Valladolid, Espanyol v Malaga bring
:cool2:

I was at the Espanyol v Malaga match last season and it was a really good game which was a lot more open with a lot more skill on show than the average EPL match.

On the main point I would say La Liga has a lot more world class players so probably stronger but this has been the most interesting season in the EPL in ages. Most sides are capable of beating the rest on their day and that's much better to watch than the dross the EPL has served up for years.

Thegreenside
23-12-2009, 04:40 PM
messi, xavi, inesta, ronaldo, kaka

or

rooney, torres, drogba, lampard, gerrard
:drool:

Russian Hibs Fan
23-12-2009, 07:08 PM
EPL every time. I d rather watch Wigan v Bolton then Barca v Real. Call me crazy.

Winston Ingram
23-12-2009, 07:11 PM
Guaranteed you won't have to watch punt it to the big man up front 4-5-1 pish that the EPL brings in most games outside the big 4.

I think your getting confused with the 1980's.The only long ball teams in the Prem are Bolton and perhaps Blackburn. I think you find your Fulham's, Burnley's, Wigans etc actually play quite good football.:agree:

Winston Ingram
23-12-2009, 07:22 PM
I was at the Espanyol v Malaga match last season and it was a really good game which was a lot more open with a lot more skill on show than the average EPL match.

On the main point I would say La Liga has a lot more world class players so probably stronger but this has been the most interesting season in the EPL in ages. Most sides are capable of beating the rest on their day and that's much better to watch than the dross the EPL has served up for years.

I'm not saying they aren't entertaining or skilful. The Prem is played at such a pace I find it far more entertaining and because of the pace it's played at it surely is a tougher league to perform in. Even Ronaldo has come out and said he finds La Liga easier as he gets more time.

Barca and Real have World Class players. Outside of that you could say Villa, Aguero and maybe Fabiano.

There are more top clubs in England than their are in Spain. It's arguable to say if you play for a top 4 club in England you have to be world class to get a game. Reason I say this is because of the English record over recent years in the CL. If your holding down a place in the a Champions League semi finalist then surely you must be World Class?

Add to the top 4 you have the likes of Spurs and City who have a sprinkling of World Class about them. Ledley King, Modric, Tevez, Robinho.

CorrieHibs
23-12-2009, 07:59 PM
messi, xavi, inesta, ronaldo, kaka

or

rooney, torres, drogba, lampard, gerrard
:drool:

Best player in the world Messi then Ronaldo then I would say Torres that's my top 3 anyway.

wee 162
23-12-2009, 09:19 PM
I wasn't necessarily talking about winning it, but in the last 2 season, 3 out of the 4 teams in the Semi Finals have been English.

I know. And that's been called domination.

Have Hibs dominated the cup trophies in Scotland by being to stacks of semi finals and finals (and winning one) in the last decade?

SidBurns
24-12-2009, 10:32 AM
By a COUNTRY MILE La Liga! Technically a million times better than the EPL, saying that I personally think Russian teams are technically better than the EPL. Their movement and touch is sublime.

Another stat is, only 4 winners of the EPL in the last 20 years, La Liga has had only 5. Okay, only wins by 1 team but from memory the EPL has only had 7 different teams involved in the Champions League (Blackburn, Man U, Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea, Newcastle & Liverpool), La Liga has had 11. I just think La Liga is more open, more chance of an upset being caused and more football (not hoofball) played, simples.

SidBurns
24-12-2009, 10:33 AM
epl every time. I d rather watch wigan v bolton then barca v real. Call me crazy.

Your crazy!

SidBurns
24-12-2009, 10:35 AM
messi, xavi, inesta, ronaldo, kaka

or

rooney, torres, drogba, lampard, gerrard
:drool:

Exactly!

One looks like Shrek, one is a diving chuff, one is the most OVERRATED midfielder in the world and the other two I quite like :greengrin Saying that, hate Gerrard as a human being but cracking player, Torres is just BARRY! His strike rate is something stupid like 1 goal every 1.1 games or summit, MADNESS!

Part/Time Supporter
24-12-2009, 10:38 AM
How much has that to do with the proximity of Scotland and England and you could add the high exposure people in Scotland have to EPL advertising though? If you were to discount the Portugese (who, I would guess, would be exposed to the same sort of thing with La Liga) I wonder how the rest of Europe view the two leagues.

Personally I am more interested in the EPL than La Liga but it's hard to argue that the EPL is better this season; just look at the high profile departures it suffered in the summer - all to La Liga

Plus there is usually interest for the Scottish fan who is interested in the national team with those English "diddy" clubs, ie Berra, S Fletcher, McFadden, etc. Who was the last Scot to play for a big Spanish club? Archibald?

:confused:

allyhibee
24-12-2009, 10:45 AM
I'm not saying they aren't entertaining or skilful. The Prem is played at such a pace I find it far more entertaining and because of the pace it's played at it surely is a tougher league to perform in. Even Ronaldo has come out and said he finds La Liga easier as he gets more time.

You may be right that the pace makes it tougher to perform in but I am not sure that makes it better to watch just makes for scrappier games on many occassions.

Not sure how Ronaldo can say it is easier when he has not been particularly impressive in comparison to his form at Man U


Barca and Real have World Class players. Outside of that you could say Villa, Aguero and maybe Fabiano.

Nilmar & Cazorla at Villareal, David Silva at Valencia, Jesus Navas at Seville to name some more off the top of my head.


There are more top clubs in England than their are in Spain. It's arguable to say if you play for a top 4 club in England you have to be world class to get a game. Reason I say this is because of the English record over recent years in the CL. If your holding down a place in the a Champions League semi finalist then surely you must be World Class?

In recent seasons it is true but this season I would say these sides are not as strong. Arsenal, Liverpool & Man United all have sold first team players since last season only Chelsea have retained all of their stars but they have looked vulnerable lately.


Add to the top 4 you have the likes of Spurs and City who have a sprinkling of World Class about them. Ledley King, Modric, Tevez, Robinho.

It is extremely debatable whether Ledley King is world class and Robinho seems very keen to move back to Spain even though he was a bit of a failure at Madrid. Tevez is arguably the third best Argentine striker behind two strikers playing in La Liga.

SidBurns
24-12-2009, 11:16 AM
You may be right that the pace makes it tougher to perform in but I am not sure that makes it better to watch just makes for scrappier games on many occassions.

Not sure how Ronaldo can say it is easier when he has not been particularly impressive in comparison to his form at Man U



Nilmar & Cazorla at Villareal, David Silva at Valencia, Jesus Navas at Seville to name some more off the top of my head.



In recent seasons it is true but this season I would say these sides are not as strong. Arsenal, Liverpool & Man United all have sold first team players since last season only Chelsea have retained all of their stars but they have looked vulnerable lately.



It is extremely debatable whether Ledley King is world class and Robinho seems very keen to move back to Spain even though he was a bit of a failure at Madrid. Tevez is arguably the third best Argentine striker behind two strikers playing in La Liga.

I concur! :wink:

Russian Hibs Fan
24-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Your crazy!

Yeah?

Spain - Loads of dives, total dominence of only to clubs for a decades (like in Scotland), never saw away fans in the so-called Big Classico! Why? They are too lazy to travel?

I just like more the style of play in Enland, the teams, stadiums, players, passion, fans - all of this from the motherland of football, which is Britain. Hate Spain, Portugal, France and Italy with a passion. Roll on EPL and SPL!

Thegreenside
24-12-2009, 05:02 PM
Yeah?

Spain - Loads of dives, total dominence of only to clubs for a decades (like in Scotland), never saw away fans in the so-called Big Classico! Why? They are too lazy to travel?

I just like more the style of play in Enland, the teams, stadiums, players, passion, fans - all of this from the motherland of football, which is Britain. Hate Spain, Portugal, France and Italy with a passion. Roll on EPL and SPL!
in the nou camp and bernabeu the away fans are seated right at the very top along away from the pitch, therefore you dont see them.
in stanford bridge and anfield they are right there pitch side.

la liga best players there for best league IMO

Russian Hibs Fan
24-12-2009, 06:52 PM
in the nou camp and bernabeu the away fans are seated right at the very top along away from the pitch, therefore you dont see them.
in stanford bridge and anfield they are right there pitch side.

la liga best players there for best league IMO

In Stamford Brifge and at Anfield I have always seen away fans. EVERY GAME. And I have never seen away fans in Spanish classico. Farce.

Winston Ingram
25-12-2009, 07:29 AM
You may be right that the pace makes it tougher to perform in but I am not sure that makes it better to watch just makes for scrappier games on many occassions.

Not sure how Ronaldo can say it is easier when he has not been particularly impressive in comparison to his form at Man U



Nilmar & Cazorla at Villareal, David Silva at Valencia, Jesus Navas at Seville to name some more off the top of my head.



In recent seasons it is true but this season I would say these sides are not as strong. Arsenal, Liverpool & Man United all have sold first team players since last season only Chelsea have retained all of their stars but they have looked vulnerable lately.



It is extremely debatable whether Ledley King is world class and Robinho seems very keen to move back to Spain even though he was a bit of a failure at Madrid. Tevez is arguably the third best Argentine striker behind two strikers playing in La Liga.

Ronaldo has scored 7 in 9 league games. I think that is more than comparable with his form at Man U. Considering he missed nearly 2 months of this season as well i think that is outstanding.

I'll give you David Silva - definitely World Class. As for Navas,Cazorla and Nilmar.
Navas can only really claim to be a regular since last season. I know he has problems with travelling but Spain have only really shown interest in calling him into the squad since the beginning of this yr. I'm not really sure that really takes him into the WC class. I can't see why you'd say Nilmar is. Good player but hardly WC. Other than getting emptied by Lyon after a few appearances he's only ever played in Brazil. So far he's got 3 goals in 15 league games for Villareal this season. Cazorla, he's nowhere near 1st choice for Spain. He even fell behind Albert Riera since 2008.

to say King is debatable and then throw those 3 at me did make me chuckle. I think 'world class' is a claim that will always be difficult to measure but when 2 of the best strikers in my life time, Drogba & Henry, have stated that he is one of the best defenders they have ever played against then that is a decent case.

As for Tevez, as Messi isn't really a striker, you could argue that he is their best striker

Munson7
26-12-2009, 02:20 AM
Yeah?

Spain - Loads of dives, total dominence of only to clubs for a decades (like in Scotland), never saw away fans in the so-called Big Classico! Why? They are too lazy to travel?

I just like more the style of play in Enland, the teams, stadiums, players, passion, fans - all of this from the motherland of football, which is Britain. Hate Spain, Portugal, France and Italy with a passion. Roll on EPL and SPL!

In the last 10 years in Spain there have been 4 different league winners. Where as in England there have only been 3 different winners since 96, so i'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here....:confused:

Too lazy to travel lol? The away fans at the Clasico only get a handful of tickets, and if you actually watched the games you would see the away fans in the very top corner of the respective stadiums.