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Dashing Bob S
12-11-2009, 12:12 PM
I'm always struck by the plethora of pirate merchandise people wear at ER, usually centred around the Harp motif.

I feel that this is cost the club money. Should Hibs produce more 'Harp only' merchandise, as people seem to feel that one symbol presents a bolder image to identify with?

Please rest assured that I'm not advocating a change in our official crest, as I like it as it is. I also don't want to start another tedious flag/crest/heritage debate as this has already been covered.

I ask the question purely on a commercial basis.

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 12:20 PM
I'm always struck by the plethora of pirate merchandise people wear at ER, usually centred around the Harp motif.

I feel that this is cost the club money. Should Hibs produce more 'Harp only' merchandise, as people seem to feel that one symbol presents a bolder image to identify with?

Please rest assured that I'm not advocating a change in our official crest, as I like it as it is. I also don't want to start another tedious flag/crest/heritage debate as this has already been covered.

I ask the question purely on a commercial basis.

:worms:

The club would undoubtedly make a lot of money on such merchandise, but I can't see them ever doing it unless they also make merchandise featuring uniquely the other elements of the current crest.

Keith_M
12-11-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm a big fan of the current badge, as it represents ALL elements of the club I support.

In saying that, if there's a demand for Harp only merchandise then why not?




Surely the only people that have trouble with that are ones that would be better off supporting another club........

:greengrin :duck:

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 12:27 PM
I'm a big fan of the current badge, as it represents ALL elements of the club I support.

In saying that, if there's a demand for Harp only merchandise then why not?




Surely the only people that have trouble with that are ones that would be better off supporting another club........

:greengrin :duck:

Because it could be construed as a 'statement'.

Keith_M
12-11-2009, 12:35 PM
Because it could be construed as a 'statement'.

The problem is that people read too much into this stuff. I think sometimes that there are people looking for such 'statements', just in case anyone else could be offended but that they're the only people who actually care.

Hibs first badge was a Harp. If the club decided to release a range of 'orginal badge' products, what's the big deal?

Blurry Face
12-11-2009, 12:36 PM
Not sure about that one, I'm sure there is a commercial director who will be looking to maximise income wherever possible while trying to avoid controversy.

If it were adopted as official merchandise, the existing suppliers would then be competition. copyright?

Then the next fad, would we copy that too
We do have a pretty good range in the clubstore and figures will be available to help decision making.
Just now, in petrie we trust.

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 12:40 PM
The problem is that people read too much into this stuff. I think sometimes that there are people looking for such 'statements', just in case anyone else could be offended but that they're the only people who actually care.

Hibs first badge was a Harp. If the club decided to release a range of 'orginal badge' products, what's the big deal?

No big deal for me - I agree with you, but not everyone's the same.

It would probably more paletable if it coincided with an anniversary and the introduction of some sort of retro (antique!) range, failing that eyebrows would be raised.

Dashing Bob S
12-11-2009, 12:53 PM
Yes, I'm wondering how much of a big deal it is to exploit the Harp (or for that matter, the castle or the ship) as pursuant with consumer demand?

I know that there some people who seemed to think that re-introducing it any form would mean that we'd become some kind of Continuity IRA cell, but surely the passage of time has proven that Hibs fans are made of different stuff, and are able to acknowledge the club's heritage, without embracing a rancid sectarianism of tired faux Oirishness, so prevalent in other places?

superfurryhibby
12-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Because it could be construed as a 'statement'.

To me the name "Hibernian FC" and the green and white are already "statements" . With the name and colours and the current crest already declaring our origins what would harp based merchandise say that isn't already apparent?

I agree with DBS that this symbol is favoured by a lot of fans and is available through unofficial channels. I would have thought that with next year being the 125th anniversary of the clubs founding, this might be an opportune time to introduce some quality heritage products that would feature the harp?

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 01:08 PM
To me the name "Hibernian FC" and the green and white are already "statements" . With the name and colours and the current crest already declaring our origins what would harp based merchandise say that isn't already apparent?

I agree with DBS that this symbol is favoured by a lot of fans and is available through unofficial channels. I would have thought that with next year being the 125th anniversary of the clubs founding, this might be an opportune time to introduce some quality heritage products that would feature the harp?

135th.

--------
12-11-2009, 01:09 PM
To me the name "Hibernian FC" and the green and white are already "statements" . With the name and colours and the current crest already declaring our origins what would harp based merchandise say that isn't already apparent?

I agree with DBS that this symbol is favoured by a lot of fans and is available through unofficial channels. I would have thought that with next year being the 125th anniversary of the clubs founding, this might be an opportune time to introduce some quality heritage products that would feature the harp?


1875 to 2010 is 135 years? :cool2:

archiebald
12-11-2009, 01:27 PM
you can buy Hibs Harp gear from Thompsons Elm Row :wink:

MB62
12-11-2009, 01:29 PM
I campaigned long and hard for the return of the HARP as our club crest, because that is exactly what is , OUR CLUB CREST.
I refused to buy any merchandise with the old castle on it, then the planet saturn. I was always on the lookout for Hibernian gear that had the HARP on it and I still have various pieces in the house.
However, since the introduction of our present crest, I have accepted that as a very good compromise and have spent a small fortune in the club shop over the years.
I would buy clothing etc if Hibs sold it with just the Harp, but it would have to be official now.
I do like our crest and see no need to change it ever, it says everything about our club. :thumbsup:

heretoday
12-11-2009, 02:10 PM
It would be seen as too "Irish".

Hal Jordan
12-11-2009, 02:15 PM
...and yet the name of the club means 'Irish' :confused:

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 02:29 PM
...and yet the name of the club means 'Irish' :confused:

Whereas "celtic" doesn't. :dizzy:

persevere1875
12-11-2009, 02:49 PM
Surely the harp is synonemous with the heritage of the club and says just as much about our roots as the name and the colours, why does marketing the harp or indeed anything else which states the clubs proud heritage automatically invoke a debate about whether or not supporters who are proud of the clubs heritage and wish to wear such symbolism are in some way sectarian, bigoted or in some way derisory to the club, I for one am proud not only of my own irish roots but of the roots of the club I love and support, that in no way makes me in any way, shape or form a sectarian bigot. :grr:

CropleyWasGod
12-11-2009, 02:50 PM
One for the historians, but I remember a story my Granda told me about the harp. Apparently, we had a big one painted on the side of the stand, and the SFA told us to get rid of it.

Anyone?

Hibercelona
12-11-2009, 02:55 PM
One for the historians, but I remember a story my Granda told me about the harp. Apparently, we had a big one painted on the side of the stand, and the SFA told us to get rid of it.

Anyone?

Never heard of that one.

But if it did happen, then why would we be told to get rid of it?

Nothing wrong with the harp IMO. :confused:

CropleyWasGod
12-11-2009, 02:59 PM
Never heard of that one.

But if it did happen, then why would we be told to get rid of it?

Nothing wrong with the harp IMO. :confused:

Might have been this, from 123football.com:-

Hibs introduced white sleeves to their shirts on Saturday 13th August 1938 against Hamilton Accies after a major brightening up of Easter Road had just taken place. The harp and shamrocks at the entrance had been repainted as had the stand and the wall round the pitch and the terracing barriers had all been painted white. The goalposts had even been replaced with oval ones with green nets. On that day, Harry Swan addressed the 22,000 crowd over new loudspeakers about "the brighter Easter Road" before the team appeared in their new strip.

Possibly a move away from being labelled and perceived as a sectarian club.?

Hibercelona
12-11-2009, 03:01 PM
Possibly a move away from being labelled and perceived as a sectarian club.?

I just can't understand why though.

How can a picture of a harp be perceived as sectarian?

What does a harp have to do with religion? :confused:

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 03:02 PM
One for the historians, but I remember a story my Granda told me about the harp. Apparently, we had a big one painted on the side of the stand, and the SFA told us to get rid of it.

Anyone?

Not the SFA.

I believe it was painted on a wall beside the main entrance. Apparently the then chairman Harry Swan (a prominent freemason but that's nothing to do with anything, honest) had the wall demolished as part of "urgent repair works", though nothing else was done.

CropleyWasGod
12-11-2009, 03:05 PM
I just can't understand why though.

How can a picture of a harp be perceived as sectarian?

What does a harp have to do with religion? :confused:

It has NOWT to do with religion, but it's all about perception. In "some" folks' eyes, the Union Jack = Proddies and Unionists. In some, green and anything remotely Oirish must be related to Catholics and the IRA.

You are right to be confused, and to be so "vanilla". Would that the rest of our country was like that :wink:

the happy hibee
12-11-2009, 03:09 PM
I think it would be a great idea for doing stuff which is the harp only on merchandice in the club shop, i for one only ever buy scarfs with just the harp as the badge on it and i dont think i am the only one and if they sold they kind of scarfs in the the club shop the football club would be getting the money not some unoffical seller! from the happy hibee son colin:notworthy:

--------
12-11-2009, 03:11 PM
It would be seen as too "Irish".


Surely the harp is synonemous with the heritage of the club and says just as much about our roots as the name and the colours, why does marketing the harp or indeed anything else which states the clubs proud heritage automatically invoke a debate about whether or not supporters who are proud of the clubs heritage and wish to wear such symbolism are in some way sectarian, bigoted or in some way derisory to the club, I for one am proud not only of my own irish roots but of the roots of the club I love and support, that in no way makes me in any way, shape or form a sectarian bigot. :grr:

The team has its roots in the Irish community of the East of Edinburgh in the 1870's. Which is why we have a harp in our present club badge/logo. There's nothing wrong in ackowledging the fact, and IMO we don't have to all become Plastic Paddies in the process.

This might be a place to start? http://www.toffs.com/invt/2416

That looks pretty smart, IMO.

persevere1875
12-11-2009, 03:13 PM
Might be wrong but wasnt the harp renewed above the tunnel under the reign of Tom Hart

RickyS
12-11-2009, 03:17 PM
Surely the harp is synonemous with the heritage of the club and says just as much about our roots as the name and the colours, why does marketing the harp or indeed anything else which states the clubs proud heritage automatically invoke a debate about whether or not supporters who are proud of the clubs heritage and wish to wear such symbolism are in some way sectarian, bigoted or in some way derisory to the club, I for one am proud not only of my own irish roots but of the roots of the club I love and support, that in no way makes me in any way, shape or form a sectarian bigot. :grr:

absolutely spot on, could not agree more. I love the clubs roots and the fact that our history means something (unlike our neighbours).
My uncle has long argued that the stripping out of our history as something not to be spoken about/celebrated lost us a lot of supporters to glasgow. im too young to remember Harry Swan so I cant comment personally, but its fair to say my uncle is not his biggest fan.

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 03:19 PM
The team has its roots in the Irish community of the East of Edinburgh in the 1870's. Which is why we have a harp in our present club badge/logo. There's nothing wrong in ackowledging the fact, and IMO we don't have to all become Plastic Paddies in the process.

This might be a place to start? http://www.toffs.com/invt/2416

That looks pretty smart, IMO.

Not as smart as the yams original Evel Knievel/Elvis Presley strips. :thumbsup:

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Scottish_Football_League/Heart_of_Midlothian/images/heart_of_midlothian-1873-1876-bk.gif

therealgavmac
12-11-2009, 03:40 PM
1875 to 2010 is 135 years? :cool2:

Yes!

Hibercelona
12-11-2009, 03:41 PM
1875 to 2010 is 135 years? :cool2:

Microsoft Calculator is a decent little tool don't you think? :devil:

:wink:

joe breezy
12-11-2009, 03:44 PM
The team has its roots in the Irish community of the East of Edinburgh in the 1870's. Which is why we have a harp in our present club badge/logo. There's nothing wrong in ackowledging the fact, and IMO we don't have to all become Plastic Paddies in the process.

This might be a place to start? http://www.toffs.com/invt/2416

That looks pretty smart, IMO.

Agree, Hibs should do those ones they look good

Ringothedog
12-11-2009, 04:16 PM
I just cant get this being scared of our heritage nonsense, if having the harp on this http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Royal_Standard_of_Scotland.svg/800px-Royal_Standard_of_Scotland.svg.png&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Standard_of_Scotland.svg&h=400&w=800&sz=151&tbnid=61CgRalyC7Lo1M:&tbnh=72&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Droyal%2Bstandard&hl=en&usg=__7oqGRHnYRQ4dT0KrAyqvW02RyPo=&ei=DTT8SviuOtKrjAfW7OCGBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image&ved=0CBEQ9QEwBA is okay then surely we can wear it ? :wink:

hibbybrian
12-11-2009, 04:52 PM
Not the SFA.

I believe it was painted on a wall beside the main entrance. Apparently the then chairman Harry Swan (a prominent freemason but that's nothing to do with anything, honest) had the wall demolished as part of "urgent repair works", though nothing else was done.

Not quite true Peevemor, you've been reading to much Celtc propaganda mate - you'll be telling us next that Brother Wilfrid was associated with Celtc for more than 6 months after establishing the Tic :wink:

Harry Swan's first involvement with Hibs was as a debenture holder for the old main stand in 1924. He became Hibs Chairman in 1934 (changed the nets to green, and was great friends with the Monsignor patrons) and it wasn't until 1956, fully 22 years later that the old 'Harp' entrance was removed "as part of urgent repair works" and an expensive new mosaic Harp was commissioned from a craftsman in Ireland by Harry Swan and shipped over to Easter Road where it was hung in the boardroom..when Harry Swan died in the early 1960's it was then gifted by Hibernian to his widow. :wink:

Keith_M
12-11-2009, 04:57 PM
I agree with DBS that this symbol is favoured by a lot of fans and is available through unofficial channels. I would have thought that with next year being the 135th anniversary of the clubs founding, this might be an opportune time to introduce some quality heritage products that would feature the harp?


I think that's a great idea.

:thumbsup:


You should suggest it to the club, as nobody from the club EVER reads these boards. :wink:

Peevemor
12-11-2009, 07:14 PM
Not quite true Peevemor, you've been reading to much Celtc propaganda mate - you'll be telling us next that Brother Wilfrid was associated with Celtc for more than 6 months after establishing the Tic :wink:

:greengrinNo, I definitely read that in one of my Hibs books (which are still at my mum's place :boo hoo:).


Harry Swan's first involvement with Hibs was as a debenture holder for the old main stand in 1924. He became Hibs Chairman in 1934 (changed the nets to green, and was great friends with the Monsignor patrons) and it wasn't until 1956, fully 22 years later that the old 'Harp' entrance was removed "as part of urgent repair works" and an expensive new mosaic Harp was commissioned from a craftsman in Ireland by Harry Swan and shipped over to Easter Road where it was hung in the boardroom..when Harry Swan died in the early 1960's it was then gifted by Hibernian to his widow. :wink:


Cheers - I hadn't heard that before.

Mibbes Aye
12-11-2009, 07:24 PM
Getting back to the OP, the club could, nay should, consider the potential of cashing in on the cult status of RP, with some appropriate branded gear.

The Harp Awakes
12-11-2009, 09:07 PM
The guy selling harp merchandise (scarfes, flags, etc) at the end of Sunnyside on match days shifts plenty.

I think there's definitely a big market for this and the cash would be better in the Club's coffers.

Vini1875
12-11-2009, 11:49 PM
I would be in favour of harp merchandise in the shop, but I am not convinced by the financial merits. It's alright for a guy who punts stuff on the street with minimal over heads, making a few quid. It's quite another to turn a reasonable profit in the shop. They only have so much space and so what there is in there has to make a fair profit to cover costs and pay wages etc.

sleeping giant
13-11-2009, 12:01 AM
Not quite true Peevemor, you've been reading to much Celtc propaganda mate - you'll be telling us next that Brother Wilfrid was associated with Celtc for more than 6 months after establishing the Tic :wink:

Harry Swan's first involvement with Hibs was as a debenture holder for the old main stand in 1924. He became Hibs Chairman in 1934 (changed the nets to green, and was great friends with the Monsignor patrons) and it wasn't until 1956, fully 22 years later that the old 'Harp' entrance was removed "as part of urgent repair works" and an expensive new mosaic Harp was commissioned from a craftsman in Ireland by Harry Swan and shipped over to Easter Road where it was hung in the boardroom..when Harry Swan died in the early 1960's it was then gifted by Hibernian to his widow. :wink:

Is it still in the boardroom?

monktonharp
13-11-2009, 12:46 AM
Not quite true Peevemor, you've been reading to much Celtc propaganda mate - you'll be telling us next that Brother Wilfrid was associated with Celtc for more than 6 months after establishing the Tic :wink:

Harry Swan's first involvement with Hibs was as a debenture holder for the old main stand in 1924. He became Hibs Chairman in 1934 (changed the nets to green, and was great friends with the Monsignor patrons) and it wasn't until 1956, fully 22 years later that the old 'Harp' entrance was removed "as part of urgent repair works" and an expensive new mosaic Harp was commissioned from a craftsman in Ireland by Harry Swan and shipped over to Easter Road where it was hung in the boardroom..when Harry Swan died in the early 1960's it was then gifted by Hibernian to his widow. :wink:never heard the story about a mosaic,I thought his family still had the 2 large concrete Harps from the old main entrance in their possesion? I'd love to see the mosaic, and preferably in full view in front of the new main entrance

hibbybrian
13-11-2009, 03:42 AM
Entrance to the Stadium

5204

Clip starts with the entrance ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBz7Ne5XnQk&feature=PlayList&p=07FE03BE2AD4D9A3&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5

joe breezy
13-11-2009, 08:41 AM
Whereas "celtic" doesn't. :dizzy:

Indeed the priest that came up with the name Celtic wanted to find a word that united both Scotland and Ireland, both Celtic nations.

Sellick is of course supposed to be pronounced Keltic but the locals were so stupid they pronounced it wrong and the mispronounciation stuck. FACT.

Keith_M
13-11-2009, 11:36 AM
never heard the story about a mosaic,I thought his family still had the 2 large concrete Harps from the old main entrance in their possesion? I'd love to see the mosaic, and preferably in full view in front of the new main entrance

Maybe we should request the club to have this on the outside of the new East stand? (if it ever gets built :wink:)

persevere1875
13-11-2009, 11:51 AM
Maybe we should request the club to have this on the outside of the new East stand? (if it ever gets built :wink:)

Great Idea, if not something along the same lines :thumbsup:

Aubenas
13-11-2009, 10:59 PM
Irish community of the East of Edinburgh in the 1870's.

Pedant alert - Southside of Edinburgh.:agree:

pepe
13-11-2009, 11:49 PM
Was saying something similar to the wife today while heading to the Hibs shop. The Lyle and Scott HFC range is really nice, but has HFC on the front. Not a problem on match day, but too obvious for wearing at night. If hibs brought out the same range with just the harp, castle or ship on it, they would fly off the shelves. Sell mostly the harp obviously ( i would buy the ship too coz ships are smart) but the shop would re-stock what it needs.