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Antifa Hibs
03-11-2009, 11:37 AM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

truehibernian
03-11-2009, 11:42 AM
I don't think its too much to ask for people to show some respect, buy a poppy, and take a brief moment in their day to pause and remember. Far from it being "americanised" (who would no doubt have bloody cheerleaders and someone singing an anthem), its just common courtesy and respect for those that put their lives on the line for our peers. Honestly, that post has me shaking my head :bitchy:

johnrebus
03-11-2009, 11:43 AM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?


Any particular reason why it shouldn't be done at a football game ?

:confused:

GlesgaeHibby
03-11-2009, 11:44 AM
I don't think its too much to ask for people to show some respect, buy a poppy, and take a brief moment in their day to pause and remember. Far from it being "americanised" (who would no doubt have bloody cheerleaders and someone singing an anthem), its just common courtesy and respect for those that put their lives on the line for our peers. Honestly, that post has me shaking my head :bitchy:

I think the point Antifa is making is why does it have to be done at a football game?

Nobody should ever forget what these men did for us, but 11/11 is armistice day, and remembrance sunday gives a chance for those that wish to go to a service at a war memorial. If the game had fell on the 11th, I could understand.

I personally have no objection to hearts choosing to observe a minutes silence at the football on saturday, and will pay my respects then, as well as at remembrance sunday and on the 11th.

Sprouleflyer
03-11-2009, 11:46 AM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

I think Hibs as a club is fully behind this, so we as fans should follow the clubs example.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/capital-clubs-join-forces-in-aid-of-veterans-20091103_2262950_1845299

scott7_0(Prague)
03-11-2009, 11:46 AM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

Totally disagree with your points. Nothing wrong with showing some respect, maybe thats the trouble these days no one has any respect left to show.

Antifa Hibs
03-11-2009, 11:47 AM
[/I][/B]


Any particular reason why it shouldn't be done at a football game ?

:confused:

Is there any particular reason why it should?


I wouldn't have to stop in Sainsburys at 12.30 on Saturday and have a minutes silence the day before remeberence day so I don't particulary see why there is one at Tynie and all other games on the Saturday. I do also fail to see why we'll have soldiers running about at half time during a game of football.


I'll have my peace poppy on and i'll observe the minutes silence on Saturday and Sunday and pay my respects to the dead like I always do. Just fail to see what this all has to do with a game of football a day before actual remeberence day.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 11:47 AM
We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?


Is this going to happen at every ground in the country, or just one ground currently owned by people who want for their own purposes to further blur the difference between - on the one hand - their squalid little club and - on the other hand - brave national sacrifice?

Elephant Stone
03-11-2009, 11:48 AM
[/I][/B]


Any particular reason why it shouldn't be done at a football game ?

:confused:

I'm sure that people's primary reason for going to football is to watch football. Asking fans to observe a minute's silence for a war, I feel, is perfectly reasonable but having soldiers paraded around the pitch is nothing short of tacky and something which is of no relevance whatsoever at a football match.

duffers
03-11-2009, 11:49 AM
The problem is that, theres going to be about 3,000 Hibs fans their, most of which would have had a good bevy in them before the game.
The chances of them staying quiet for the duration of the minutes silence?
Slim i would say, this is going to give the club a bad name and make us look higly disrespectful!!

RIP
03-11-2009, 11:51 AM
WW2 was the last war I would have supported.

N Ireland, Falklands, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan - All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarassments

WW2 vets parading - OK :thumbsup:

British Army parading? - Not in my name!

GlesgaeHibby
03-11-2009, 11:51 AM
The problem is that, theres going to be about 3,000 Hibs fans their, most of which would have had a good bevy in them before the game.
The chances of them staying quiet for the duration of the minutes silence?
Slim i would say, this is going to give the club a bad name and make us look higly disrespectful!!

It's pretty pathetic if people aren't able to keep their trap shut for one minute, even if they have had a drink.

Beefster
03-11-2009, 11:54 AM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

You feel 'subjected' to the minute's silence and a little bit of respect to our services?

I feel grateful that, as you said, you're in a minority.

Craig_in_Prague
03-11-2009, 11:54 AM
Is there any particular reason why it should?


I wouldn't have to stop in Sainsburys at 12.30 on Saturday and have a minutes silence the day before remeberence day so I don't particulary see why there is one at Tynie and all other games on the Saturday. I do also fail to see why we'll have soldiers running about at half time during a game of football.


I'll have my peace poppy on and i'll observe the minutes silence on Saturday and Sunday and pay my respects to the dead like I always do. Just fail to see what this all has to do with a game of football a day before actual remeberence day.

Perhaps, when there are 18,000+ or whatever together, is a good chance to collectively show respect.
And who knows, maybe hit home the fact that football, no matter how important we think it is, is just football. There is more to life and more to respect.

Bayern Bru
03-11-2009, 11:55 AM
The problem is that, theres going to be about 3,000 Hibs fans their, most of which would have had a good bevy in them before the game.
The chances of them staying quiet for the duration of the minutes silence?
Slim i would say, this is going to give the club a bad name and make us look higly disrespectful!!

Haven't you heard? That's exactly what Hertz are WANTING to happen...
:wink:

I can say with a great degree of certainty that the silence will be disrupted and Hearts will come out with their usual statement about Hibs being a graceless and classless club:cool2:

Even though I believe the powers that be at Hearts should know better than to attempt a silence in a derby game, it would be nice if Hibs could manage it, and avoid the holier-than-thou fall out from the Yam fuds.

Beefster
03-11-2009, 11:55 AM
WW2 was the last war I would have supported.

N Ireland, Falklands, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan - All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarassments

WW2 vets parading - OK :thumbsup:

British Army parading? - Not in my name!

The British Army don't decide what wars to fight - they're told by the politicians voted in by the British electorate.

heretoday
03-11-2009, 11:59 AM
The British Army don't decide what wars to fight - they're told by the politicians voted in by the British electorate.

Hear Hear. If it was up to the boys and girls in the forces they'd be back home tomorrow.

Antifa Hibs
03-11-2009, 12:08 PM
You feel 'subjected' to the minute's silence and a little bit of respect to our services?

I feel grateful that, as you said, you're in a minority.

Before jumping on yer high horse have a read of post 7, the last paragraph :yawn:

Although I won't be paying any respect to any modern day soldiers fighting in many wars I nor stacks of other folk I know agree with. Ireland, Falklands, Iraq etc.

Judas Iscariot
03-11-2009, 12:08 PM
I wonder if Hertz would be going to all this bother if they were at home to say, St Johnstone on Saturday :confused:

Suburban Hibby
03-11-2009, 12:09 PM
I think the point Antifa is making is why does it have to be done at a football game?

Nobody should ever forget what these men did for us, but 11/11 is armistice day, and remembrance sunday gives a chance for those that wish to go to a service at a war memorial. If the game had fell on the 11th, I could understand.

I personally have no objection to hearts choosing to observe a minutes silence at the football on saturday, and will pay my respects then, as well as at remembrance sunday and on the 11th.


I think the thing we have to remember is this is for not only war dead from previous conflicts but there are guys out now, whether you agree with the reasons they are there or not, who are losing there lives everyday- punters who may well have stood next to you at ER- A bit of respect is little to ask.

HFC 0-7
03-11-2009, 12:10 PM
Is there any particular reason why it should?


I wouldn't have to stop in Sainsburys at 12.30 on Saturday and have a minutes silence the day before remeberence day so I don't particulary see why there is one at Tynie and all other games on the Saturday. I do also fail to see why we'll have soldiers running about at half time during a game of football.


I'll have my peace poppy on and i'll observe the minutes silence on Saturday and Sunday and pay my respects to the dead like I always do. Just fail to see what this all has to do with a game of football a day before actual remeberence day.

This is the way that football shows its respect for the people that gave their lives so that we could have a future as we know it.

How else would football show its respect publicly, I dont think they are asking for too much that we stay quiet for 1 minute and watch some soldiers parade. Remember, if it hadnt been for the people we are remembering Hibs probably wouldnt exist.


Out of all the things that people can moan about, price of tickets, no money in scottish football, people choose this to moan about!

Terrible!:grr:

OstKurve Hibs
03-11-2009, 12:11 PM
Whatever rangers do hearts will copy! Simples!
I could be wrong, but didnt they only start bangin on bout this mcraes battalion garbage a few yrs ago.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 12:12 PM
Remember, if it hadnt been for the people we are remembering Hibs probably wouldnt exist.

How do you get to that conclusion? Did the Kaiser or Hitler have a track record of closing down fitba clubs? :confused:

HUTCHYHIBBY
03-11-2009, 12:13 PM
Before jumping on yer high horse have a read of post 7, the last paragraph :yawn:

Seems to me like you were 1st on your high horse in the OP! :rolleyes:

apqsy
03-11-2009, 12:14 PM
WW2 was the last war I would have supported.

N Ireland, Falklands, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan - All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarassments

WW2 vets parading - OK :thumbsup:

British Army parading? - Not in my name!


Remembrance Sunday is not about supporting any war, it is about remembering the people who have gave their life in the line of duty for this country.

GlesgaeHibby
03-11-2009, 12:15 PM
I think the thing we have to remember is this is for not only war dead from previous conflicts but there are guys out now, whether you agree with the reasons they are there or not, who are losing there lives everyday- punters who may well have stood next to you at ER- A bit of respect is little to ask.

I understand you, and I will pay my respects. Afghanistan is an un-winnable war, but whilst our soldiers are risking life and limb for their country they will always have my respect. As I said in my post, I have no problem with the silence being at the football, although it seems strange given that there are two designated times for marking respect (Remembrance sunday and Armistice day).

PaulSmith
03-11-2009, 12:17 PM
I cannot recall in my lifetime where Hibs fans have failed to observe a minute silence for Armistace day.

Please do not allow our failure to mark the passing of a man who wanted to kill our club with the minutes silence on Sat. Two entirely different things and if Hearts think that they are more entitled as a club to promote what 'they' gave for WW1 then let them go with it but let's just pay remeberance to all our relatives who fought in WW1 and WW2 as well.

Hearts, as a club and a support, will be gutted if we stand in silence on Saturday and I don't expect anything else.

HFC 0-7
03-11-2009, 12:17 PM
How do you get to that conclusion? Did the Kaiser or Hitler have a track record of closing down fitba clubs? :confused:


I dont think there would be much chance of a football team surviving in the same vein as it does now. I mean can you imagine the state of the world if someone was in charge that was hell bent on exterminating anyone of a certain belief, OK, maybe hibs would still exist but europe etc wouldnt, FIFA and UEFA wouldnt exist.

Cabbage East
03-11-2009, 12:17 PM
It's almost like they're trying to bait us into 'disgracing ourselves'....

(((Fergus)))
03-11-2009, 12:21 PM
I think it's a reasonable question. Do they hold a minute's silence/applause at the theatre, concerts or other social gatherings? Maybe on the day itself but otherwise? I don't think they do. So why football then?

The only reasons I can think of are that football is a mini-war, therefore there is a greater resonance with real war.

Also front-line servicemen typically come from the working classes and football is (still) predominantly a working class sport. One way of keeping these classes "on side" is to nurture notions of honour, glory, etc. (it's certainly cheaper than paying mercenaries or supplying our relatives with proper equipment) and we are IMHO guilty of buying into that voluntarily. What other solace is there, especially in the case of these current wars where the cause is questionable?

Big Frank
03-11-2009, 12:21 PM
If the yams are trying to set us up for a fall - so be it. They have very little to cling on to at the moment. Who cares about them.:confused:



But please, lets respect those who have given their lives and fought. :agree:

Forget pettyness.

by that I mean Hibernian and he**ts fans ie EDINBURGH show that we can all rise above it.

Its happening all over the country - not just at the PBS.

Then cheer the bonny greenjerseys to victory.

Glory.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 12:23 PM
I dont think there would be much chance of a football team surviving in the same vein as it does now. I mean can you imagine the state of the world if someone was in charge that was hell bent on exterminating anyone of a certain belief, OK, maybe hibs would still exist but europe etc wouldnt, FIFA and UEFA wouldnt exist.

Germany would not have lost the WCFinal in whatever year it was to a dodgy goal in the final scored by a team who played all their games at home. That's for sure. :agree:

Billychaotic182
03-11-2009, 12:25 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8339138.stm

HUTCHYHIBBY
03-11-2009, 12:28 PM
It's almost like they're trying to bait us into 'disgracing ourselves'....

Why?

If the game was played at the start of September do you think they would have planned a minutes silence in rememberance of these people who gave their lives? Its their last home game before Rememberance Sunday, is it really too much to ask?

Maybe they asked the SPL to plan the game in for this w-end so they can make us look bad!

I really don't see a conspiracy theory at all.

JimBHibees
03-11-2009, 12:28 PM
Why are there now silences at football matches when I cant remember this ever happening before bar last year? Dont see the need for it to be honest given that there is a defined day for such shows of respect, November 11th.

Fair enough with specially designed strips etc personally think silences just lead to the chance of some numpty making an erse of themselves and others.

Personal opinion is that these increased shows of respect etc are done to maybe cynically overshadow the questionable decisions to be in any of the recent wars. That isnt in any way to question the astonishing bravery and the deep personal loss felt by family and friends of those losing their lives.

Cabbage East
03-11-2009, 12:30 PM
Why?

If the game was played at the start of September do you think they would have planned a minutes silence in rememberance of these people who gave their lives? Its their last home game before Rememberance Sunday, is it really too much to ask?

Maybe they asked the SPL to plan the game in for this w-end so they can make us look bad!

I really don't see a conspiracy theory at all.

I think you're naive.

IndieHibby
03-11-2009, 12:30 PM
Before jumping on yer high horse have a read of post 7, the last paragraph :yawn:

Although I won't be paying any respect to any modern day soldiers fighting in many wars I nor stacks of other folk I know agree with. Ireland, Falklands, Iraq etc.

What's a peace poppy? I have a poppy, but not a peace-poppy - are they green or pink or something?

TheBall'sRound
03-11-2009, 12:30 PM
Personally I do buy a poppy and I do observe the minutes silence on the 11th and I do take time to think about why I'm doing it.

But I also object to HMFC's exploitation of what is a tragic and humbling event 90 odd years ago. I can't be the only one to have the feeling, without bringing even a hint of football bias into the equation, that Hearts have hijacked this occasion and thus diluted it.

We should all reflect on the sacrifices made in our name before our parents were born, providing us with the affluent society we live in now, but as soon something as petty as one-upmanship and footballing rivalry comes into it it becomes a pale imitation of what it should be.

I'm not going to question the motives behind Hearts' "events" scheduled for the derby or coming week but I will question the perverse pride some of their support take in being "better at sacrificing" than Hibs. It's ridiculous and lacking any sort of perspective.

HFC 0-7
03-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Why are there now silences at football matches when I cant remember this ever happening before bar last year? Dont see the need for it to be honest given that there is a defined day for such shows of respect, November 11th.

Fair enough with specially designed strips etc personally think silences just lead to the chance of some numpty making an erse of themselves and others.

Personal opinion is that these increased shows of respect etc are done to maybe cynically overshadow the questionable decisions to be in any of the recent wars. That isnt in any way to question the astonishing bravery and the deep personal loss felt by family and friends of those losing their lives.

I agree that there will probably be some idiot that shouts the whole way through, but by far, you will be able to tell that there is a minutes silence being carried out and that the vast majority are respecting it. Thats what the media should look at and ourselves that the majority respected. I personally wouldnt lose sleep over a couple of idiots shouting through, I will know that I respected and thats all that counts.

I always feel that after a minutes silence the roar that goes up after the silence must be quite a good feeling to the players.

IWasThere2016
03-11-2009, 12:33 PM
I think Hibs as a club is fully behind this, so we as fans should follow the clubs example.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/capital-clubs-join-forces-in-aid-of-veterans-20091103_2262950_1845299


Totally disagree with your points. Nothing wrong with showing some respect, maybe thats the trouble these days no one has any respect left to show.


I cannot recall in my lifetime where Hibs fans have failed to observe a minute silence for Armistace day.

Please do not allow our failure to mark the passing of a man who wanted to kill our club with the minutes silence on Sat. Two entirely different things and if Hearts think that they are more entitled as a club to promote what 'they' gave for WW1 then let them go with it but let's just pay remeberance to all our relatives who fought in WW1 and WW2 as well.

Hearts, as a club and a support, will be gutted if we stand in silence on Saturday and I don't expect anything else.

Spot on. Do the right thing and show some dignified respect.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 12:34 PM
I cannot recall in my lifetime where Hibs fans have failed to observe a minute silence for Armistace day.

Since they've probably only been asked once or twice before, that hardly qualifies for a lifetime achievement award.


Maybe they asked the SPL to plan the game in for this w-end so they can make us look bad!
The date of the fixture is not a plot to make us look bad. The arrangements surrounding it may be intended to make them look good. Particularly the soldiers on the pitch - if that's not going to reinforce yams' already hysterical belief in their historical moral superiority I don't know what is.

--------
03-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Totally disagree with your points. Nothing wrong with showing some respect, maybe thats the trouble these days no one has any respect left to show.


I agree with Antifa - this isn't apporpriate at a football match. There are plenty of opportunities to show respect, but IIRC when I was a youngster and the memory of the SECOND World War was still very fresh, people all took the trouble to turn out at the Remembrance ceremonies at the War Memorials; we didn't have to have the thing thrust at us the way it is now. Remembrance is remembrance; too many bells and whistles around for my liking these days.

IMO part of the motivation for the high profile being given to Remembrance this year is because we have a government in trouble over an unpopular war in Afghanistan and an illegal war in Iraq. I hope I'm wrong (I don't think I am) but I suspect that the powers that be are using Remembrance to deflect criticism away from our Armed Forces' present deployments, and from the way the government are depriving our Regular Forces, the Territorials, and the Cadets of vital resources without which they cannot fulfil the functions we expect them to fulfil. Respect means supporting them effectively, not indulging in cheap shows.

marinello59
03-11-2009, 12:38 PM
The only thing that can make us look bad is our own actions, nothing to do with any ulterior motives etc. (And I doubt they exist anyway.)
Dignity and respect for a minute and respect to the soldiers who have to do the dirty work, that's not a big ask really is it?

sean
03-11-2009, 12:38 PM
again like the ian murray tackle..i dont see what all the fuss is over.

lets pay respects to past and present soldiers for 60seconds and then get on with winning a football match.

The Godfather
03-11-2009, 12:39 PM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

1991 Hibs Vs Dundee Utd (I think) 1st Bn The Royal Scots had members on leave after serving in the Gulf War. Hibs gave us a days hospitality and had us on the pitch at half time kicking some balls about and we got a great reception from the fans:wink:

Everyone is allowed an opionion and the reason why we are allowed one is that, the soldiers that will be remembered on Saturday gave their lifes so we could live in a society that allows freedom of speach. FFS sometimes I people would remember this :grr:

--------
03-11-2009, 12:42 PM
1991 Hibs Vs Dundee Utd (I think) 1st Bn The Royal Scots had members on leave after serving in the Gulf War. Hibs gave us a days hospitality and had us on the pitch at half time kicking some balls about and we got a great reception from the fans:wink:

Everyone is allowed an opionion and the reason why we are allowed one is that, the soldiers that will be remembered on Saturday gave their lifes so we could live in a society that allows freedom of speach. FFS sometimes I people would remember this :grr:

:agree:

sahib
03-11-2009, 12:43 PM
I agree with Antifa - this isn't apporpriate at a football match. There are plenty of opportunities to show respect, but IIRC when I was a youngster and the memory of the SECOND World War was still very fresh, people all took the trouble to turn out at the Remembrance ceremonies at the War Memorials; we didn't have to have the thing thrust at us the way it is now. Remembrance is remembrance; too many bells and whsitles around for my liking these days.

IMO part of the motivation for the high profile being given to Remembrance this year is because we have a government in trouble over an unpopular war in Afghanistan and an illegal war in Iraq. I hope I'm wrong (I don't think I am) but I suspect that the powers that be are using Remembrance to deflect criticism away from our Armed Forces' present deployments, and from the way the government are depriving our Regular Forces, the Territorials, and the Cadets of vital resources without which they cannot fulfil the functions we expect them to fulfil. Respect means supporting them effectively, not indulging in cheap shows.

To me, rememberance is for the fallen not a celebration of militarism. That is why people of all creeds and political opinions were able to respect it.

cwilliamson85
03-11-2009, 12:44 PM
Let’s put this into perspective.

You don’t have to buy a poppy if you don’t want to.

You just have to stand a be quiet for 1 minuet

And give the soldiers a quick round of applause when they come on or go and get a pie and Bovril.

Kaiser1962
03-11-2009, 12:45 PM
I think Hibs as a club is fully behind this, so we as fans should follow the clubs example.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/capital-clubs-join-forces-in-aid-of-veterans-20091103_2262950_1845299

:top marks

Golden Bear
03-11-2009, 12:46 PM
Let’s put this into perspective.

You don’t have to buy a poppy if you don’t want to.

You just have to stand a be quiet for 1 minuet

And give the soldiers a quick round of applause when they come on or go and get a pie and Bovril.



Exactly.

It's not too much to ask for surely.

scott7_0(Prague)
03-11-2009, 12:46 PM
Let’s put this into perspective.

You don’t have to buy a poppy if you don’t want to.

You just have to stand a be quiet for 1 minuet

And give the soldiers a quick round of applause when they come on or go and get a pie and Bovril.

Or come in a minute late if it bothers you that much - :agree:

Brizo
03-11-2009, 12:49 PM
Not that many years ago public Rememberance services were held at war memorials and churchs and the minutes silence held on the 11th hour of the 11th day.

Not that many years ago minutes silences at fitba grounds were confined to ex players and staff. I went to games throughout the 70s and 80s hardly coming across a minutes silence.

Now the Rememberance commemorations have been brought into fitba grounds , which afaik is a very recent development.

I will be wearing a poppy and will be attending a Rememberance service. However it is my choice to do both. The compulsory nature of an imposed paying of respects in an entertainment venue is something im uncomfortable with.

Id like us to go back to the situation we had a few short years ago where the paying of Rememberance respects was held at war memorials or in churchs , places where people had specifically gathered for the sole purpose of paying their respects. . Id also like to see minutes silences at fitba confined to deceased players or former staff ..... with some thought given to the opposition fans views on that particular day :wink:

Kaiser1962
03-11-2009, 12:50 PM
It's pretty pathetic if people aren't able to keep their trap shut for one minute, even if they have had a drink.

Absolutely. And the Yam Fuds would love it, just love it if we as much as squeak during it live on national TV. They forget their debacle at the silence at Hampden for the pope but let us be silent if for no other reason then let it be that we are better than them.

cwilliamson85
03-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Or come in a minute late if it bothers you that much - :agree:

yeah but you always get some people who have one to many who come in singing. Get there early doors find your seat have a sing song be quiet for a minute then BOUNCE BOUNCEY

Judas Iscariot
03-11-2009, 12:51 PM
Let’s put this into perspective.

You don’t have to buy a poppy if you don’t want to.

You just have to stand a be quiet for 1 minuet

And give the soldiers a quick round of applause when they come on or go and get a pie and Bovril.


I don't think anyone is complaining about why people choose to show respect it's more down to the reasoning or relevance of doing it at a football game and the questionable fact that if the Hertz were playing St Mirren would the same events be taking place!?

Isaac_Refvik
03-11-2009, 12:53 PM
Is there any particular reason why it should?


I wouldn't have to stop in Sainsburys at 12.30 on Saturday and have a minutes silence the day before remeberence day so I don't particulary see why there is one at Tynie and all other games on the Saturday. I do also fail to see why we'll have soldiers running about at half time during a game of football.


I'll have my peace poppy on and i'll observe the minutes silence on Saturday and Sunday and pay my respects to the dead like I always do. Just fail to see what this all has to do with a game of football a day before actual remeberence day.

You have a choice. Stay inside while the minute's silence is on and let those outside show their respect to those who died. Politics should have nothing to do with it, you agree or you disagree. I agree.

cwilliamson85
03-11-2009, 12:53 PM
It does not matter who is playing who. I am guessing all clubs will show there respect in there own ways.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Remembrance Sunday is not about supporting any war, it is about remembering the people who have gave their life in the line of duty for this country.

Is it not also about people who gave their lives for other countries? I may be in a minority here, and this may be considered disloyally offensive by some, but I treat it as a time to reflect on all the fallen in wartime, not just those soldiers who gave their lives on our side.

Peevemor
03-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Not that many years ago public Rememberance services were held at war memorials and churchs and the minutes silence held on the 11th hour of the 11th day.

Not that many years ago minutes silences at fitba grounds were confined to ex players and staff. I went to games throughout the 70s and 80s hardly coming across a minutes silence.

Now the Rememberance commemorations have been brought into fitba grounds , a very recent development.

I will be wearing a poppy and will be attending a Rememberance service. However it is my choice to do both. The compulsory nature of an impoesed paying of respects in an entertainment venue is something im uncomfortable with.

Id like us to go back the few short years where Rememberance services were held at war memorials or churchs which people had specifically chosen to attend to pay their respects. . Id also like see minutes silences at fitba confined to deceased players or former staff ..... with some thought given to the opposition fans views on that particular day :wink:

I agree, they seem to be held more and more often.

I think it would be a good idea, apart from exceptional circumstances, to hold only 1 minutes silence per year, on the day of the 'new year' derby (irrespective of when it's actually played). This would give the supporters of both teams the chance to acknowledge former players, fellow supporters, etc. who have passed away during the previous year.

oneone73
03-11-2009, 12:58 PM
What's a peace poppy? I have a poppy, but not a peace-poppy - are they green or pink or something?

A white poppy. You can get them at the church at the west end of Princes Street, IIRC.

Anyway, part of Remembrance for me is to remember ALL the victims of wars - not just the supposed Imperialist British Army, to paraphrase some on here. If it helps anyone to shut the **** up for one minute, they can tell themselves they're honouring the innocent victims, civilians among them. Jeez.

Big Frank
03-11-2009, 01:04 PM
To let those who haven't seen it - the Edinburgh Evening News has stated that the soldiers parading at the PBS on saturday are supporters OF BOTH TEAMS.


:notworthy:

GordonR
03-11-2009, 01:05 PM
Has anyone checked that it's going to be British Army marching about on the day, and not a bunch of cheaper-price squaddies shipped over on loan from the Lithuanian Army (Kaunas Submariner Division)? :devil:


PS. Go ahead and boo and make as much 'anti-Imperialist' noise as you want during a minute's silence, and show us up as the Diet Hoops some people would love to write us off as.

scoopyboy
03-11-2009, 01:07 PM
Let’s put this into perspective.

You don’t have to buy a poppy if you don’t want to.

You just have to stand a be quiet for 1 minuet

And give the soldiers a quick round of applause when they come on or go and get a pie and Bovril.

Yes, it really is that simple.

Everybody be quiet for a minute and then lets get on with the footy.

No comeback on Hibs, irrespective of whether there is alterior motives or not.

Hibs90
03-11-2009, 01:12 PM
I don't think anyone is complaining about why people choose to show respect it's more down to the reasoning or relevance of doing it at a football game and the questionable fact that if the Hertz were playing St Mirren would the same events be taking place!?

Spot on. They are only doing it purely because they know they will get a reaction from the Hibs fans.

sahib
03-11-2009, 01:15 PM
Is it not also about people who gave their lives for other countries? I may be in a minority here, and this may be considered disloyally offensive by some, but I treat it as a time to reflect on all the fallen in wartime, not just those soldiers who gave their lives on our side.


Spot on! It was always for the fallen of two world wars on all sides.

GieTheBaTaeReilly
03-11-2009, 01:19 PM
How do you get to that conclusion? Did the Kaiser or Hitler have a track record of closing down fitba clubs? :confused:

I don't know about clubs, but here's a team (and a sub) for ya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_killed_during_World_War_II

M

--------
03-11-2009, 01:20 PM
I don't think anyone is complaining about why people choose to show respect it's more down to the reasoning or relevance of doing it at a football game and the questionable fact that if the Hertz were playing St Mirren would the same events be taking place!?

Right. I will respect any Act of Remembrance over the next weekend.

BUT - I question the appropriateness of some of what i see going on, and I am slightly puzzled that Hearts have become so much more enthusiastic about Remembrance since the club passed into the hands of an Eastern European "businessman", when previous Hearts boards managed to pay their respects in ways so much more dignified and (IMO) appropriate. I am convinced that THOSE boards and directors (and fans) understood the scrifices made by our war dead and those whose lives were shattered by their war-service much better than some of the present brood.


Is it not also about people who gave their lives for other countries? I may be in a minority here, and this may be considered disloyally offensive by some, but I treat it as a time to reflect on all the fallen in wartime, not just those soldiers who gave their lives on our side.


:top marks Couldn't put it better.

PaulSmith
03-11-2009, 01:23 PM
Since they've probably only been asked once or twice before, that hardly qualifies for a lifetime achievement award..

Not sure what you mean here as there has been a minutes silence every year for as long as I can remember around the 11th November at Hibs games and I cannot recall it ever not being 100% observed.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 01:28 PM
I don't know about clubs, but here's a team (and a sub) for ya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_killed_during_World_War_II

M

What a strange, strange page. Are there similar pages for cricketers who died during wartime, tennis players who died during wartime, left handed neurosurgeons killed during wartime? (Don't answer that - there probably are!)

--------
03-11-2009, 01:30 PM
Not sure what you mean here as there has been a minutes silence every year for as long as I can remember around the 11th November at Hibs games and I cannot recall it ever not being 100% observed.


Aye, and it was done quietly, without fuss, and without all the stuff that seems to accumulating around Remembrance these days.

And everyone kept silence. :agree:

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 01:33 PM
It disappoints me that many people can't appreciate why someone would object to this OTT celebration of our forces. I can understand why others might hold their point of view, but the main argument for people to fall in behind the flag seems to run along the lines of "dae whit yer telt".

I think if people don't want to respect the celebrations on Saturday, then the best thing for them to do is to keep quiet, or not go to the match. However in the lead up to the Armistice remembrance maybe it's a good time for others to reflect on how working class males are still being brought into the world with no other future than to lay down their lives for the State.

I'm feeling quite low about this at the moment. A friend of mine's brother will be buried tomorrow after being injured fighting for, well I don't know what he was fighting for. I've been thinking about how many other youngsters from Fife have died in the recent conflicts and reflecting on the fact that there is very little other option for many youngsters here but to join the forces.

Let's all think a bit harder about what the Armistice really commemorates. To me it isn't freedom, or victory, but needless slaughter. Those things mean to me that a more sombre attitude towards the whole thing is appropriate. I don't really think it sits easily with an entertainment like a football match.

I agree that this is being forced on us, and ask why we can't stick to remembering the war dead in the way we always did. I wish people would think hard about it so that we can stop sending men to be slaughtered. Dulce et Decorum est? I don't think so.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 01:33 PM
Not sure what you mean here as there has been a minutes silence every year for as long as I can remember around the 11th November at Hibs games and I cannot recall it ever not being 100% observed.

My memory is not all it once was (or at least I think it once was). I have it in my mind that a remembrance silence on days other than the 11th was not a regular occurrence until fairly recently. My apologies if that's wrong.

Kaiser_Sauzee
03-11-2009, 01:36 PM
How do you get to that conclusion? Did the Kaiser or Hitler have a track record of closing down fitba clubs? :confused:

I have no plans to close down any football clubs at this stage.

lyonhibs
03-11-2009, 01:36 PM
It's almost like they're trying to bait us into 'disgracing ourselves'....


If was only a matter of time before someone came out with that corker!!

If boozed up Hibs or Hearts fans cannot keep their gob shut for 1 minute before a game to at least respect people who have died serving their country (whether or not you agree with their political masters "motives") then they have not been "baited" "incited" or any other euphemistic word that effectively translates to "it was Hearts' fault"

They will have acted disgracefuly and be solely repsonsible for the inevitably negative press fall-out should this minute's silence go awry.

IT LASTS ONE MINUTE FFS!!

sadtom
03-11-2009, 01:42 PM
I agree with much of the original post.
I also agree that there is no good reason for disrespecting the silence whether you agree with it or not. Its first andd foremost a matter of decency and politeness.

I do agree that i dont see why football should be a vehicle for acts of rememberance.

Next week i propose a minutes silence for thosse who have died building the homes, offices, sporting venues etc the we all need for our daily lives.
After all you have more chance of dying working as a labourer on a building site than you do as a member of the armed services. (this is not to decry their sacrifice, merely to highlight the sacrifice of others)

--------
03-11-2009, 01:43 PM
How do you get to that conclusion? Did the Kaiser or Hitler have a track record of closing down fitba clubs? :confused:


"Dulce et decorum est pro SPL mori." :wink:

Dashing Bob S
03-11-2009, 01:44 PM
I agree with Antifa and Doddie, and i'm concerned at what seems to be a concerted attempt by our politicians "inclusive" New Labour and "one nation" Tories, to change our national culture through social engineering. It's an exploitation of a genuine need to to remember and a craven submission to the mawkish exhibitionism of public grieving all too fashionable nowadays.

One of the great things about Britian is that, unlike other countries, these celebrations/memorials were usually done in a voluntaristic (and thus genuine) manner, and our sporting and cultural institutions were not used in this shabby way.

The poster says that it's not a celebartion of militarism, its showing respect for the dead. Well watch this space.

No surprise that Hearts now have soliders marching at half-time. I'm sure that now that established this, on future ocassions this anniversary comes along, Tynecastle will start to resemble the military tattoo.

There are plenty proper commenorative events going on, if people want to commenorate this, let them attend one and do it genuinely. This kind of 'grieving' however, is largely for insincere jealous poseurs.

I once said to an emotional Celtic fan at parkhead many years ago, 'why don't you go and join the IRA instead of singing about it like a daft little girl who's been put on stage by her mother?' I've even less time for 90 mourners than I do for 90 minute bigots.

Keep it out of football.

--------
03-11-2009, 01:57 PM
I agree with Antifa and Doddie, and i'm concerned at what seems to be a concerted attempt by our politicians "inclusive" New Labour and "one nation" Tories, to change our national culture through social engineering. It's an exploitation of a genuine need to to remember and a craven submission to the mawkish exhibitionism of public grieving all too fashionable nowadays.

One of the great things about Britian is that, unlike other countries, these celebrations/memorials were usually done in a voluntaristic (and thus genuine) manner, and our sporting and cultural institutions were not used in this shabby way.

The poster says that it's not a celebartion of militarism, its showing respect for the dead. Well watch this space.

No surprise that Hearts now have soliders marching at half-time. I'm sure that now that established this, on future ocassions this anniversary comes along, Tynecastle will start to resemble the military tattoo.

There are plenty proper commenorative events going on, if people want to commenorate this, let them attend one and do it genuinely. This kind of 'grieving' however, is largely for insincere jealous poseurs.

I once said to an emotional Celtic fan at parkhead many years ago, 'why don't you go and join the IRA instead of singing about it like a daft little girl who's been put on stage by her mother?' I've even less time for 90 mourners than I do for 90 minute bigots.

Keep it out of football.

:agree:

Remembrance in my view is just that - remembrance of our war dead and those who still suffer from the hurts they received in the nation's service.

It's about respect for the men and women (not 'lads') who serve in our Armed Forces, not about justifying the policies of the politicians who sent them out to serve. Sometimes those polices are right and just, sometimes not. But the sacrifice remains.

In the Leni Riefenstahl fim "Triumph of the Will" there is a very nasty bit where Hitler and the Nazis, gathered at Nuremberg in 1934 to celebrate, hold an act of remembrance for the German war dead of the Great War. It's the best example I know of how politicians will subvert respect for the dead and remembrance of the dead to serve their own agenda.

And knowing all that, and aware of what followed on from Hitler's rise to power, the hair at the back of my neck still prickles when I hear those bands playing "Ich hatte einen kameraden". Because the men died in 1914-18, and they died in 1939-45, and they're still dying while world leaders enjoy their summit conferences and state visits, and make their speeches, and feather their nests.

BTW, the neo-Nazis are still at it, just like the BNP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhxf6ygz0c

Golden Bear
03-11-2009, 02:08 PM
There are far too many deep thinking philosophers on this thread.

A request has been made for a minute's silence to show our respect for the war dead. Not too much to ask I'd have thought?

TheMentalHibees
03-11-2009, 02:16 PM
It's not difficult, and who knows, maybe if we keep it shut for the entire minute then one of them might make an erse of themselves :agree:

heretoday
03-11-2009, 02:18 PM
It might be an idea to organise the disembowelling of a politician as half-time entertainment.

Perhaps Hearty Harry could do the honours.

I've just discovered Teenie and Tynie Tiger are the Hearts mascots now. That's progress I suppose.

Dashing Bob S
03-11-2009, 02:22 PM
There are far too many deep thinking philosophers on this thread.

A request has been made for a minute's silence to show our respect for the war dead. Not too much to ask I'd have thought?

Didn't say a single thing about not observing it, I respect the fact that amidst the multitude of 90 minute mourners, there will be some people who genuinely care about the war dead, think about the nature of their sacrifice and show this through means other than a football match. (As I do myself.)

But it's a democracy and we have the right to discuss and call into question the motivations surrounding this encroachment into sporting/cultural life.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 02:26 PM
There are far too many deep thinking philosophers on this thread.

A request has been made for a minute's silence to show our respect for the war dead.

What's it coming to, you aren't even allowed to think anyomore. :grr:

Sorry, but millions of people dying does need a wee bit of thought. You know some people would be really happy if it didn't happen again. In fact some people are under the impression that remembrance, mourning and grieving are things that are about thinking deeply.

A request was made, it will be observed, but I had always thought that requests were, er, requests and that it wasn't compulsory for people to follow them.

Considering other people's views is not too much to ask I'd have thought?

apqsy
03-11-2009, 02:27 PM
Is it not also about people who gave their lives for other countries? I may be in a minority here, and this may be considered disloyally offensive by some, but I treat it as a time to reflect on all the fallen in wartime, not just those soldiers who gave their lives on our side.

Yes, you are quite right.
The point I was making is that you don't have to support any war to think about/remember poeple who have lost their lives.

GieTheBaTaeReilly
03-11-2009, 02:29 PM
Yes, you are quite right.
The point I was making is that you don't have to support any war to think about/remember poeple who have lost their lives.

Pre-****in-cisely.

greenlex
03-11-2009, 02:29 PM
In case most have missed it EVERY SPL GROUND WILL OBSERVE A MINUTES SILENCE THIS WEEKEND. Its not exclusively Hearts that are arranging this it has come from the SPL.
FWIW I agree this has no place in a football ground. If it was on the 11th at the 11th then it would.
I dont know about the soldiers being paraded is just at Tynie but this is probably more appropriate than the silence IMO.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 02:30 PM
Yes, you are quite right.
The point I was making is that you don't have to support any war to think about/remember poeple who have lost their lives.
:agree:

blackpoolhibs
03-11-2009, 02:33 PM
Lets just stand up, keep quiet for the 60 seconds, then get right behind the team for the next 90 minutes.:notworthy:

HFC 0-7
03-11-2009, 02:48 PM
Didn't say a single thing about not observing it, I respect the fact that amidst the multitude of 90 minute mourners, there will be some people who genuinely care about the war dead, think about the nature of their sacrifice and show this through means other than a football match. (As I do myself.)

But it's a democracy and we have the right to discuss and call into question the motivations surrounding this encroachment into sporting/cultural life.

The chances are it wouldnt be a democracy if it hadnt been for the people that we are being asked to remember!

cwilliamson85
03-11-2009, 02:52 PM
Let it be known if you are in Block J row 17 upper tier and you make noise through the minute silence I will beat who ever it is.
:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Let this be a warning

Booked4Being-Ugly
03-11-2009, 02:54 PM
The chances are it wouldnt be a democracy if it hadnt been for the people that we are being asked to remember!:top marks

Mad Ferret
03-11-2009, 03:10 PM
In case most have missed it EVERY SPL GROUND WILL OBSERVE A MINUTES SILENCE THIS WEEKEND. Its not exclusively Hearts that are arranging this it has come from the SPL.
FWIW I agree this has no place in a football ground. If it was on the 11th at the 11th then it would.
I dont know about the soldiers being paraded is just at Tynie but this is probably more appropriate than the silence IMO.

:agree:

Was wondering when someone would point that out.

Whilst I'm all for having as many digs at our city rivals as is possible, that some posters here are accusing Hearts of trying to set us up in this instance is what we would probably call classless were it coming back the other way. Even more so considering our own club is fully behind this Saturday's events as well.

As PaulSmith points out, a minute's silence at the footy at the game closest to Armistice Day has been common practice for a good while now as FOOTBALL pays it's respects. Never have I heard such a silence disrupted at a game involving Hibernian FC and I don't expect to this Saturday.

1950's hibbie
03-11-2009, 03:15 PM
Is there any particular reason why it should?


I wouldn't have to stop in Sainsburys at 12.30 on Saturday and have a minutes silence the day before remeberence day so I don't particulary see why there is one at Tynie and all other games on the Saturday. I do also fail to see why we'll have soldiers running about at half time during a game of football.


I'll have my peace poppy on and i'll observe the minutes silence on Saturday and Sunday and pay my respects to the dead like I always do. Just fail to see what this all has to do with a game of football a day before actual remeberence day.


While I appreciate that you seem to hav e anti war principles I think in you enthusiasm you are making at least one important error. The poppy is not a symbol of peace, on the contrary it is a symbol of respect for those who sacrificed their lives to obtain peace and the rights and privileges we in democratic countries enjoy. As far as why such an action at a football game, I would suggest that it is a sign of appreciation to the young men who sacrifice themselves to fight the politicians wars. The venue chosen because it is a place where a large number of people will be gathered in one place.

JimBHibees
03-11-2009, 03:15 PM
I agree with Antifa - this isn't apporpriate at a football match. There are plenty of opportunities to show respect, but IIRC when I was a youngster and the memory of the SECOND World War was still very fresh, people all took the trouble to turn out at the Remembrance ceremonies at the War Memorials; we didn't have to have the thing thrust at us the way it is now. Remembrance is remembrance; too many bells and whistles around for my liking these days.

IMO part of the motivation for the high profile being given to Remembrance this year is because we have a government in trouble over an unpopular war in Afghanistan and an illegal war in Iraq. I hope I'm wrong (I don't think I am) but I suspect that the powers that be are using Remembrance to deflect criticism away from our Armed Forces' present deployments, and from the way the government are depriving our Regular Forces, the Territorials, and the Cadets of vital resources without which they cannot fulfil the functions we expect them to fulfil. Respect means supporting them effectively, not indulging in cheap shows.

Agree 100%. :agree:

Joe Baker II
03-11-2009, 03:33 PM
It disappoints me that many people can't appreciate why someone would object to this OTT celebration of our forces. I can understand why others might hold their point of view, but the main argument for people to fall in behind the flag seems to run along the lines of "dae whit yer telt".

I think if people don't want to respect the celebrations on Saturday, then the best thing for them to do is to keep quiet, or not go to the match. However in the lead up to the Armistice remembrance maybe it's a good time for others to reflect on how working class males are still being brought into the world with no other future than to lay down their lives for the State.

I'm feeling quite low about this at the moment. A friend of mine's brother will be buried tomorrow after being injured fighting for, well I don't know what he was fighting for. I've been thinking about how many other youngsters from Fife have died in the recent conflicts and reflecting on the fact that there is very little other option for many youngsters here but to join the forces.

Let's all think a bit harder about what the Armistice really commemorates. To me it isn't freedom, or victory, but needless slaughter. Those things mean to me that a more sombre attitude towards the whole thing is appropriate. I don't really think it sits easily with an entertainment like a football match.

I agree that this is being forced on us, and ask why we can't stick to remembering the war dead in the way we always did. I wish people would think hard about it so that we can stop sending men to be slaughtered. Dulce et Decorum est? I don't think so.

Excellent post and agree with Doddie and Antifa on this.

Would add to the reasons already given that these occasions never seem to commemorate those who have suffered through being killed/injured by the British Army in wars which to put it mildly, were of dubious morality. If they were these occasions may be more deserving of respect.

Some people will interrupt this on Saturday, whatever their motivations hope it is acknowledged next week that they have every right to do so, whatever rubbish some of Hearts less intelligent fans will come out with next week.

Joe Baker II
03-11-2009, 03:34 PM
Spot on! It was always for the fallen of two world wars on all sides.

Do not diasagree but this is not how what is being proposed this week is coming over.

seamus88
03-11-2009, 03:39 PM
I'm sure that people's primary reason for going to football is to watch football. Asking fans to observe a minute's silence for a war, I feel, is perfectly reasonable but having soldiers paraded around the pitch is nothing short of tacky and something which is of no relevance whatsoever at a football match.

Do u think they want to be march round a pitch either, at last have the respect they deserve. An applude them as they go past and observe the silence, I for 1 will be showing full support to this at half time for obvious reasons...

Tam1875
03-11-2009, 03:40 PM
lets just go up their and show them who the class team are in our fair city no shouting no booing just total silence from the best supporters in edinburgh na scotland na the world:notworthy:

basehibby
03-11-2009, 03:46 PM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

I think the sodgers have been invited because the charity being publicised is one which helps crippled soldiers - something I have no problem with whether I agree with the war they're currently fighting in or not.
I think the recent upsurge in public demonstrations of support for rememberance day is probably to do with the fact that so many soldiers HAVE been killed and injured in the last 5 years or so in Iraq and Afganistan.
Like I suspect you do, I choose to think of rememberance day as a day to remember ALL the victims of war, but the fact remains that most of the funds raised go to help disabled British veterans - help which I think they fully deserve.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 03:49 PM
The chances are it wouldnt be a democracy if it hadnt been for the people that we are being asked to remember!

A democracy which seems to have no respect for those who dissent


Let it be known if you are in Block J row 17 upper tier and you make noise through the minute silence I will beat who ever it is.
:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Let this be a warning

Facists talk that way you know. That said I hope nobody does anything disrespectful.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 03:50 PM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

:top marks- a refugee from Iraq or Afghanistan may find the sight of british soldiers being paraded at a FOOTBALL GAME as a bit much !!!.....i respect the troops both current & past & will show my respects on wednesday, NOT AT TYNECASTLE ON SATURDAY !!! - who decided this should happen anyway, is it the SPL or is it a government direction ??? :hmmm:

cwilliamson85
03-11-2009, 03:50 PM
:shocked:

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 03:52 PM
:shocked:

:top marks

Jones28
03-11-2009, 03:52 PM
I don't think its too much to ask for people to show some respect, buy a poppy, and take a brief moment in their day to pause and remember. Far from it being "americanised" (who would no doubt have bloody cheerleaders and someone singing an anthem), its just common courtesy and respect for those that put their lives on the line for our peers. Honestly, that post has me shaking my head :bitchy:

:agree:

Joe Baker II
03-11-2009, 03:56 PM
Remember, if it hadnt been for the people we are remembering Hibs probably wouldnt exist.

grr:

You are spot on here, the British Armed Forces played a major role in ensuring that Irish landowners were able to export food when the potato crop failed in Ireland in the 1840s. Food depots at ports in Ireland were guarded by the British Armed forces as grain and other agricultural produce was exported to England - economic historians research suggest this would have been sufficient to feed all those who died/were evicted during the famine.

Had it not been for the resultant starvation (and genocide) as the Anglo-British state perpetuated their historical exploitation of the Irish, there would havebeen unlikely to have been a diaspora in Scotland to found Hibs.

Hope all Hibs fans observing minutes silence on Saturday remember this. If they do, no problem if they wish to respect rememberance of all who have died in wars.

(((Fergus)))
03-11-2009, 03:56 PM
There are far too many deep thinking philosophers on this thread.

A request has been made for a minute's silence to show our respect for the war dead. Not too much to ask I'd have thought?

People don't like to be stage-managed in other people's phony bull****.

Golden Bear
03-11-2009, 03:59 PM
People don't like to be stage-managed in other people's phony bull****.

So an Act of Remembrance is other people's phony bull ***?

(((Fergus)))
03-11-2009, 04:01 PM
You are spot on here, the British Armed Forces played a major role in ensuring that Irish landowners were able to export food when the potato crop failed in Ireland in the 1840s. Food depots at ports in Ireland were guarded by the British Armed forces as grain and other agricultural produce was exported to England - economic historians research suggest this would have been sufficient to feed all those who died/were evicted during the famine.

Had it not been for the resultant starvation (and genocide) as the Anglo-British state perpetuated their historical exploitation of the Irish, there would ahve been unlikely to have been a diaspora in Scotland to found Hibs.

Hope all Hibs fans observing minutes silence on Saturday remember this. If they do, no problem if they wish to respect remembrnace of all who have died in wars.

:top marks Had it not been for British Army oppression of the Irish and the subsequent rebellion there would be no democracy in Ireland today.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 04:03 PM
People don't like to be stage-managed in other people's phony bull****.

Just the sort of thing JS Mill or Albert Camus might have said:greengrin. Or in the words of John Bogle:


So they collected the cripples, the wounded, the maimed
And they shipped us back home to Australia
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place where my legs used to be
And thank Christ there was nobody waiting for me
To grieve and to mourn and to pity
And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As they carried us down the gangway
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared
Then turned all their faces away

And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
And I watch my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reliving old dreams of past glory
And the old men march slowly, all bent, stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question
And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men answer to the call
But year after year their numbers get fewer
Some day no one will march there at all

Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me
And their ghosts may be heard as you pass the Billabong
Who'll come-a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Berwickhibby
03-11-2009, 04:04 PM
I for one will be at Tynecastle on Saturday, standing silent in rememerance. I hope my fellow Hibees show the same dignity and class for the brave working class men who died in service of their country.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 04:06 PM
So an Act of Remembrance is other people's phony bull ***?

Sorry, everything YOU believe in is right. I hope you sleep easier.

biggie1875
03-11-2009, 04:06 PM
WW2 was the last war I would have supported.

N Ireland, Falklands, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan - All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarassments

WW2 vets parading - OK :thumbsup:

British Army parading? - Not in my name!


100%:top marks

97hills
03-11-2009, 04:07 PM
Geez I can't believe what I'm reading from some people on this board. Do some people scour the internet day after day to find something to get annoyed at!? Do some people love watching players warm up at half time so much that their attention should not be anywhere else?

Nothing is being forced upon any supporter. Go and buy a pie at half time, read the programme, bring a newspaper or talk to your friends about what you think will happen in the XFactor. Surely people are mixing up being annoyed and being offended? Everybody has the right to complain when they believe remarks, parades or articles are offensive but everybody seems to agree that it is important to show respect to the servicemen of this country regardless of whether you agree with a war or not (that is a topic that would deserve its' own thread). I just don't understand why someone would feel annoyed about this sort of thing when it is so easy to avoid that annoyance and if you are offended by it then that's also a totally different debate.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 04:07 PM
I for one will be at Tynecastle on Saturday, standing silent in rememerance. I hope my fellow Hibees show the same dignity and class for the brave working class men who died in service of their country.

Yeah, the middle class were only in it for the burds.

Judas Iscariot
03-11-2009, 04:09 PM
Let it be known if you are in Block J row 17 upper tier and you make noise through the minute silence I will beat who ever it is.
:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Let this be a warning

Bet you wilnae

Golden Bear
03-11-2009, 04:10 PM
Sorry, everything YOU believe in is right. I hope you sleep easier.

Doesn't answer the question?

And by the way -(I'm serious) - who is/was John Bogle?

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Doesn't answer the question?

And by the way -(I'm serious) - who is/was John Bogle?

Scottish song writer who wrote the anti war song And the Band Played Waltzing Mathilda. He takes the voice of an Aussie veteran who, having lost his legs at Gallipoli, questions what and who the remembrance parade is for. I get the impression he thinks it is all phoney bull****.

The song has been covered by Christie Moore and others.

Golden Bear
03-11-2009, 04:17 PM
Scottish song writer who wrote the anti war song And the Band Played Waltzing Mathilda. He takes the voice of an Aussie veteran who, having lost his legs at Gallipoli, questions what who the remembrance parade is for.

The song has been covered by Christie Moore and others.

Was that not Eric Bogle? (my brother happens to know him)

seamus88
03-11-2009, 04:18 PM
WW2 was the last war I would have supported.

N Ireland, Falklands, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan - All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarassments

WW2 vets parading - OK :thumbsup:

British Army parading? - Not in my name!

Self righteousness if ave ever heard it. The lads do their jobs n get bashed for it. I'd lime to see the people who give them a hard time try the job for a week n see if that changes your mind any!!:grr::grr:

basehibby
03-11-2009, 04:23 PM
yeah but you always get some people who have one to many who come in singing. Get there early doors find your seat have a sing song be quiet for a minute then BOUNCE BOUNCEY

No - NOT always - there was a minutes silence for rememberance day last season which was impecably observed at ER where Hibs were at home to Inverness - just as it was in grounds all over the country.

Cabbage East
03-11-2009, 04:23 PM
So an Act of Remembrance is other people's phony bull ***?

An enforced one that one organisation is using to prove a point might well be construed as just that.

Some people might not want to sit and applaud British Soldiers. Some people might not want to take part in a minutes silence on a day which is not relevant to rememberance day which normally takes place on the 11th of November as far as i know.

225-EasterRd
03-11-2009, 04:40 PM
:agree: I agree we as a club should support this minutes silence, as all clubs are doing except celtic as they want applause do drown out there yobs, if you dont want too observe it, fine just stay outside or in the concourse until the minutes silence is over, also if you dont want to think about what the guys done on 11/11, i am sure you all have someone who has passed away, use this time to think off them, and there memory.:agree:

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 04:44 PM
Was that not Eric Bogle? (my brother happens to know him)

Aye that's him. I apologise, doesn't change the point about the song. I apologise to him as well, if I've picked the meaning up wrongly.

basehibby
03-11-2009, 04:45 PM
An enforced one that one organisation is using to prove a point might well be construed as just that.

Some people might not want to sit and applaud British Soldiers. Some people might not want to take part in a minutes silence on a day which is not relevant to rememberance day which normally takes place on the 11th of November as far as i know.

Well - anyone that doesn't want to observe a minutes silence in respect of the war dead - please do us all a favour and keep yer gubs shut as an act of respect to the rest of us who do.

And as for sitting and applauding the sodgers - if you don't want to do that - well don't :dunno:

New Corrie
03-11-2009, 04:48 PM
I am at a total loss as to why some people are unable/unwilling to observe a minute's silence, and also show a bit of respect for the brave young men and women currently serving in these troubled times. Has Scotland finally managed to stoop that low?

There are only one set of fans in Britain who are unable to observe the silence (and we all know what they are about).....Please don't let it become two sets of fans! Surely Hibs fans are better than this, although judging by some of the contributions on here.....i'm not so sure.

Golden Bear
03-11-2009, 04:49 PM
Aye that's him. I apologise, doesn't change the point about the song. I apologise to him as well, if I've picked the meaning up wrongly.

No problem.

We've all got different politics and I do respect other peoples' opinions but I would hate to see Hibs's name tarnished on Saturday especially when the match is on live TV.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 04:49 PM
Well - anyone that doesn't want to observe a minutes silence in respect of the war dead - please do us all a favour and keep yer gubs shut as an act of respect to the rest of us who do.

And as for sitting and applauding the sodgers - if you don't want to do that - well don't :dunno:

I don't think anyone on here was planning to disrupt the silence.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 04:52 PM
No problem.

We've all got different politics and I do respect other peoples' opinions but I would hate to see Hibs's name tarnished on Saturday especially when the match is on live TV.

I think everyone would agree with that.:agree:

Cabbage East
03-11-2009, 04:55 PM
I don't think anyone on here was planning to disrupt the silence.

Exactly.

People overreact to anyone that questions the validity of a minutes silence on a day that's not traditionally relevant to Rememberence, i.e. any day other than the 11th of November.

Where has anyone said they won't observe the silence? :confused:

Sir David Gray
03-11-2009, 05:00 PM
Or come in a minute late if it bothers you that much - :agree:


If was only a matter of time before someone came out with that corker!!

If boozed up Hibs or Hearts fans cannot keep their gob shut for 1 minute before a game to at least respect people who have died serving their country (whether or not you agree with their political masters "motives") then they have not been "baited" "incited" or any other euphemistic word that effectively translates to "it was Hearts' fault"

They will have acted disgracefuly and be solely repsonsible for the inevitably negative press fall-out should this minute's silence go awry.

IT LASTS ONE MINUTE FFS!!


Geez I can't believe what I'm reading from some people on this board. Do some people scour the internet day after day to find something to get annoyed at!? Do some people love watching players warm up at half time so much that their attention should not be anywhere else?

Nothing is being forced upon any supporter. Go and buy a pie at half time, read the programme, bring a newspaper or talk to your friends about what you think will happen in the XFactor. Surely people are mixing up being annoyed and being offended? Everybody has the right to complain when they believe remarks, parades or articles are offensive but everybody seems to agree that it is important to show respect to the servicemen of this country regardless of whether you agree with a war or not (that is a topic that would deserve its' own thread). I just don't understand why someone would feel annoyed about this sort of thing when it is so easy to avoid that annoyance and if you are offended by it then that's also a totally different debate.


The only thing that can make us look bad is our own actions, nothing to do with any ulterior motives etc. (And I doubt they exist anyway.)
Dignity and respect for a minute and respect to the soldiers who have to do the dirty work, that's not a big ask really is it?


This is the way that football shows its respect for the people that gave their lives so that we could have a future as we know it.

How else would football show its respect publicly, I dont think they are asking for too much that we stay quiet for 1 minute and watch some soldiers parade. Remember, if it hadnt been for the people we are remembering Hibs probably wouldnt exist.


Out of all the things that people can moan about, price of tickets, no money in scottish football, people choose this to moan about!

Terrible!:grr:


Totally disagree with your points. Nothing wrong with showing some respect, maybe thats the trouble these days no one has any respect left to show.


It's pretty pathetic if people aren't able to keep their trap shut for one minute, even if they have had a drink.

:top marks Totally agree with all of the above points.

I really cannot believe that this is causing so much debate.

If the silence on Saturday is disrupted by anyone in the Hibs end, I will be thoroughly ashamed and embarrassed and the fact that many fans will have a drink in them is absolutely no excuse to cause any problems.

Just remember that the game is being broadcast live on ESPN, so if there is any disruption during the silence, the whole country will witness it and it will reflect very badly on our club as a whole.

New Corrie
03-11-2009, 05:02 PM
An enforced one that one organisation is using to prove a point might well be construed as just that.

Some people might not want to sit and applaud British Soldiers. Some people might not want to take part in a minutes silence on a day which is not relevant to rememberance day which normally takes place on the 11th of November as far as i know.


Well they can pheck right off then. It really isn't that complex to act in a civil fashion and show a bit of respect. I didn't like Wallace Mercer, The Pope and The Queen Mother, but I still managed to show the appropriate respect that was asked.

Beefster
03-11-2009, 05:02 PM
An enforced one that one organisation is using to prove a point might well be construed as just that.

Some people might not want to sit and applaud British Soldiers. Some people might not want to take part in a minutes silence on a day which is not relevant to rememberance day which normally takes place on the 11th of November as far as i know.

So there shouldn't be an issue with the Yams booing during the minute silence for the Pope?

Isn't 11 November an enforced act of remembrance too?

ginger_rice
03-11-2009, 05:14 PM
WW2 was the last war I would have supported.

N Ireland, Falklands, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan - All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarassments

WW2 vets parading - OK :thumbsup:

British Army parading? - Not in my name!

Well you're entitled to you opinion.

But just remember quite a few of us on here took part in your "All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarrassments".


And several of us who post on here have lost friends in action, and that is what remembrance Sunday is all about, not scoring petty political points.


Oh and for what it's worth I actually don't think that one minutes silence has a place at a football match this weekend, there is a proper time and place for that.

JimBHibees
03-11-2009, 05:23 PM
Well they can pheck right off then. It really isn't that complex to act in a civil fashion and show a bit of respect. I didn't like Wallace Mercer, The Pope and The Queen Mother, but I still managed to show the appropriate respect that was asked.

Agree, basic decency.

Alex Trager
03-11-2009, 05:28 PM
Na we all need to show our respects , its for soldiers who die for us( you all know the story so i'm not going to patrionise yous) but its not as if it was an ex jambo that died so we all should stay quiet and the soldiers are ones that support either side of the capital teams. we should not ever turn into cfc , respect the dead and appreciate what we have cos of theses soldiers. PLEASE DONT LET THE CLUB DOWN BY BOOING

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 05:48 PM
Well you're entitled to you opinion.

But just remember quite a few of us on here took part in your "All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarrassments".


And several of us who post on here have lost friends in action, and that is what remembrance Sunday is all about, not scoring petty political points.


Oh and for what it's worth I actually don't think that one minutes silence has a place at a football match this weekend, there is a proper time and place for that.

:agree:


Na we all need to show our respects , its for soldiers who die for us( you all know the story so i'm not going to patrionise yous) but its not as if it was an ex jambo that died so we all should stay quiet and the soldiers are ones that support either side of the capital teams. we should not ever turn into cfc , respect the dead and appreciate what we have cos of theses soldiers. PLEASE DONT LET THE CLUB DOWN BY BOOING

Nobody on here has said they are going to boo. Some people don't like the fact that the tribute is taking place at the football for a variety of reasons, one is that it about propaganda for current campaigns more than remembering the dead from past ones.

Some might say that the greatest respect we could give our troops is not to ask them to risk their lives in conflicts which are nothing to do with Britain, which the British people don't support.

Kaiser1962
03-11-2009, 06:09 PM
I am at a total loss as to why some people are unable/unwilling to observe a minute's silence, and also show a bit of respect for the brave young men and women currently serving in these troubled times. Has Scotland finally managed to stoop that low?

There are only one set of fans in Britain who are unable to observe the silence (and we all know what they are about).....Please don't let it become two sets of fans! Surely Hibs fans are better than this, although judging by some of the contributions on here.....i'm not so sure.


Agree. This is not a vote as to whether we agree or not with an illegal war in Iraq or not. Nor is it about things that happened in 1840 FFS :confused: It is about remembering the fallen and the wounded of ALL nations who have been sent to slaughter by arrogant politicians the world over. Some have given their lives willingly, others not, but if supporters of this football club above all others cant see that then it leaves me with a heavy and sad heart.

Minder
03-11-2009, 06:10 PM
Some of the guys parading on Saturday are Hibbies, they aint Rambo type mercenary imperialists - just average guys who serve their country and do a job with little reward and at great personal risk. Possibility after their next tour some might not return. Whether or not you cheer those guys and respect those that have fallen in all our names is a matter of choice - but remember these guys and thousands like them give all to ensure you have the right to choose and debate such matters.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 08:01 PM
I agree with Antifa - this isn't apporpriate at a football match. There are plenty of opportunities to show respect, but IIRC when I was a youngster and the memory of the SECOND World War was still very fresh, people all took the trouble to turn out at the Remembrance ceremonies at the War Memorials; we didn't have to have the thing thrust at us the way it is now. Remembrance is remembrance; too many bells and whistles around for my liking these days.

IMO part of the motivation for the high profile being given to Remembrance this year is because we have a government in trouble over an unpopular war in Afghanistan and an illegal war in Iraq. I hope I'm wrong (I don't think I am) but I suspect that the powers that be are using Remembrance to deflect criticism away from our Armed Forces' present deployments, and from the way the government are depriving our Regular Forces, the Territorials, and the Cadets of vital resources without which they cannot fulfil the functions we expect them to fulfil. Respect means supporting them effectively, not indulging in cheap shows.

bang on mate :agree:

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 08:08 PM
:top marks Totally agree with all of the above points.

I really cannot believe that this is causing so much debate.

If the silence on Saturday is disrupted by anyone in the Hibs end, I will be thoroughly ashamed and embarrassed and the fact that many fans will have a drink in them is absolutely no excuse to cause any problems.

Just remember that the game is being broadcast live on ESPN, so if there is any disruption during the silence, the whole country will witness it and it will reflect very badly on our club as a whole.

absolute pish !!! :dummytit:

ginger_rice
03-11-2009, 08:12 PM
Was that not Eric Bogle? (my brother happens to know him)

He also wrote The Green Fields of France (aka No Mans Land) probably the best anti-war song ever.

Removed
03-11-2009, 08:12 PM
absolute pish !!! :dummytit:

Disagree.

Cant argue with anything in FH's post. You obviously can so lets have it rather than what you posted above.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 08:16 PM
Disagree.

Cant argue with anything in FH's post. You obviously can so lets have it rather than what you posted above.

a posted on page3

a refugee from Iraq or Afghanistan may find the sight of british soldiers being paraded at a FOOTBALL GAME as a bit much !!!.....i respect the troops both current & past & will show my respects on wednesday, NOT AT TYNECASTLE ON SATURDAY !!! - who decided this should happen anyway, is it the SPL or is it a government direction ??? :hmmm:

ginger_rice
03-11-2009, 08:27 PM
I agree with Antifa - this isn't apporpriate at a football match. There are plenty of opportunities to show respect, but IIRC when I was a youngster and the memory of the SECOND World War was still very fresh, people all took the trouble to turn out at the Remembrance ceremonies at the War Memorials; we didn't have to have the thing thrust at us the way it is now. Remembrance is remembrance; too many bells and whistles around for my liking these days.

TBH mate it isn't really thrust at anyone, it has to be better publicised as the numbers of ex-service men of WW2 and Korea become fewer each year ( this was the generation to whom donating to the poppy appeal was second nature) poppy Scotland have to work all the harder to keep the donations in, while the costs of looking after wounded ex-service personnel is ever increasing

IMO part of the motivation for the high profile being given to Remembrance this year is because we have a government in trouble over an unpopular war in Afghanistan and an illegal war in Iraq. I hope I'm wrong (I don't think I am) but I suspect that the powers that be are using Remembrance to deflect criticism away from our Armed Forces' present deployments,

Apart from London the powers at be have little or no input into any of the remembrance services held around Britain, I know I organise one! Remembrance Sunday should not be a day for debating the legality of wars, remember the servicemen in this country do not start conflicts, they only take part at the governments bidding

and from the way the government are depriving our Regular Forces, the Territorials,

Our forces have always been grossly underfunded for the tasks the politicians demand of them

of vital resources without which they cannot fulfil the functions we expect them to fulfil..
:tin hat:

Removed
03-11-2009, 08:32 PM
a posted on page3

a refugee from Iraq or Afghanistan may find the sight of british soldiers being paraded at a FOOTBALL GAME as a bit much !!!.....i respect the troops both current & past & will show my respects on wednesday, NOT AT TYNECASTLE ON SATURDAY !!! - who decided this should happen anyway, is it the SPL or is it a government direction ??? :hmmm:

Have you read the article on our clubs website :confused:

Minutes silence have always been at fitba games near rememberance day as long as I can remember. Some folk are acting like it's the first time it's ever been done and Hearts have somehow managed to get the fixtures fixed so they play us at home to remind us how they won the war.

basehibby
03-11-2009, 08:33 PM
I don't think anyone on here was planning to disrupt the silence.

Fair enough and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case - the sort of folk that would disrupt it would have trouble writing words of more than one sylable IMO.

But there has been a fair bit of debate around whether it's appropriate or not given that the game's not actually on 11th November. As far as this individual game is concerned it's entirely appropriate if only because every other club in the country will be doing it and to opt out WOULD be taken as a slight whether intended or not.

I can see how the debate has shaped up with some percieving the whole thing as somehow glorifying militarism, and I would not be in favour of that myself - but that is the opposite of how I've always percieved rememberance day. The actual day itself is the aniversary of armistice day - the day that WW1 came to an end - but the tone of the occasion has nothing to do with triumphalism but has always been one of solemn mourning for the countless lives put through the mincer in that conflict and those that have followed, the notion being that remembering these events for the tragedies they were might help to avoid them being needlessly repeated in the future.

Dashing Bob S
03-11-2009, 08:34 PM
The chances are it wouldnt be a democracy if it hadnt been for the people that we are being asked to remember!

Yes. And it wasn't much of one in WW1 when millions were slaughtered to preserve the wealth of the ruling elites in the colonial powers.

NOLA
03-11-2009, 08:34 PM
whats the big deal? minutes silence, soldiers, so what!

basehibby
03-11-2009, 08:40 PM
absolute pish !!! :dummytit:

Posted like a grade A :asshole:

So can I take it that you ARE planning to disgrace our club at Tynie???

Dashing Bob S
03-11-2009, 08:41 PM
I don't anyone here is saying that it should be disrupted, or they would do such a stupid thing, but are merely questioning the rationale of having such events at a football match.

As they are perfectly entitled to do,without being shouted down as anti-social wreckers.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 08:52 PM
Have you read the article on our clubs website :confused:

Minutes silence have always been at fitba games near rememberance day as long as I can remember. Some folk are acting like it's the first time it's ever been done and Hearts have somehow managed to get the fixtures fixed so they play us at home to remind us how they won the war.

eh ??? whats with the bold 'our' ya fud ???....yer wee rant doesn't answer my question - WHO'S IDEA WAS IT ??? - i never mentioned the merricks so your last sentence is redundant !!! - the article on hibs official website is joint PR from the charity & clearly states the half-time show is to remember past & CURRENT soldiers - your wee rant again offers no answer to my original point of how various refugees supporting EITHER club would feel !!!

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 08:53 PM
Posted like a grade A :asshole:

So can I take it that you ARE planning to disgrace our club at Tynie???

read my previous posts on this thread ya fud !!! :grr:

Kevvy1875
03-11-2009, 08:54 PM
I cant believe this whole thread! Its not Hearts we will be observing the minutes silence for! They are not forcing us to do it or anything!

Most likely a good number of Hibbys at the game will have lost people during the 2nd world war. The good people who fought THAT war at the very least deserve our respect regardless of what you think of any other war.

Its happening, thats a fact. Lets all just stay silent for 1 single minute of our lives and then do what we want afterwards. And those who want to use that minute for some quiet reflection.....good on you.:agree:

Also...we should all be proud of McCrae's Battalion ourselves. Firstly, they were British servicemen. Secondly NOT only were there Hearts players in the "Sportsman's battalion" but Players and fans from Hibs, the fife clubs and various other sporting institutions.

basehibby
03-11-2009, 08:55 PM
I don't anyone here is saying that it should be disrupted, or they would do such a stupid thing, but are merely questioning the rationale of having such events at a football match.

As they are perfectly entitled to do,without being shouted down as anti-social wreckers.

While you're probably right - some of H1bs6H3arts2 FC 's posts can easily be read to mean the opposite...

eg... "i respect the troops both current & past & will show my respects on wednesday, NOT AT TYNECASTLE ON SATURDAY !!! "

Does that mean he's not actually got a ticket for Tynie? or that he's going to turn his back?? or that he intends to stand on his seat blowing a party tooter out his erse???

Open to interpretation I would say...

basehibby
03-11-2009, 08:59 PM
read my previous posts on this thread ya fud !!! :grr:

I did - still none the wiser :dunno:

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 09:02 PM
While you're probably right - some of H1bs6H3arts2 FC 's posts can easily be read to mean the opposite...

eg... "i respect the troops both current & past & will show my respects on wednesday, NOT AT TYNECASTLE ON SATURDAY !!! "

Does that mean he's not actually got a ticket for Tynie? or that he's going to turn his back?? or that he intends to stand on his seat blowing a party tooter out his erse???

Open to interpretation I would say...

ive got a ticket you Uber Hibby you :wink: - fair enuff i didn't say what my protest would be - for the record i will be getting a pie during the minutes silence - again caller whats your point ??? :dunno:

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 09:04 PM
I did - still none the wiser :dunno:

says more about you than me matey !!! :yawn:

Removed
03-11-2009, 09:05 PM
eh ??? whats with the bold 'our' ya fud ???....yer wee rant doesn't answer my question - WHO'S IDEA WAS IT ??? - i never mentioned the merricks so your last sentence is redundant !!! - the article on hibs official website is joint PR from the charity & clearly states the half-time show is to remember past & CURRENT soldiers - your wee rant again offers no answer to my original point of how various refugees supporting EITHER club would feel !!!

Who's having a rant apart from you :confused:

The bold our is because our club have agreed it and support it. Write and complain to them if you don't like it. Every game has a minutes silence - across the whole of the country.

How many refugees are going to be there like? This is us remembering the war dead, surely they will just remember their own in silence.

FranckSuzy
03-11-2009, 09:08 PM
Some of the guys parading on Saturday are Hibbies, they aint Rambo type mercenary imperialists - just average guys who serve their country and do a job with little reward and at great personal risk. Possibility after their next tour some might not return. Whether or not you cheer those guys and respect those that have fallen in all our names is a matter of choice - but remember these guys and thousands like them give all to ensure you have the right to choose and debate such matters.

:top marks

FranckSuzy
03-11-2009, 09:11 PM
:agree: I agree we as a club should support this minutes silence, as all clubs are doing except celtic as they want applause do drown out there yobs, if you dont want too observe it, fine just stay outside or in the concourse until the minutes silence is over, also if you dont want to think about what the guys done on 11/11, i am sure you all have someone who has passed away, use this time to think off them, and there memory.:agree:

:top marks

There has, sadly, been way too many posts on hibs.net recently informing us of the passing of great Hibby's. If you can't/won't be silent for the fallen troops then can't you at least manage it for these guys?

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 09:13 PM
Who's having a rant apart from you :confused:

The bold our is because our club have agreed it and support it. Write and complain to them if you don't like it. Every game has a minutes silence - across the whole of the country.

How many refugees are going to be there like? This is us remembering the war dead, surely they will just remember ther own in silence.

is there a register or something? :greengrin - this is a discussion on why we are having to remember the war dead & current soldiers at a football game !!! Your pretty naive (or stupid) if you believe the bold above. Your the geezer using the angry emoticons mate no me !!! :blah:

Danderhall Hibs
03-11-2009, 09:22 PM
I am at a total loss as to why some people are unable/unwilling to observe a minute's silence, and also show a bit of respect for the brave young men and women currently serving in these troubled times. Has Scotland finally managed to stoop that low?

There are only one set of fans in Britain who are unable to observe the silence (and we all know what they are about).....Please don't let it become two sets of fans! Surely Hibs fans are better than this, although judging by some of the contributions on here.....i'm not so sure.

Spot on.


a posted on page3

a refugee from Iraq or Afghanistan may find the sight of british soldiers being paraded at a FOOTBALL GAME as a bit much !!!.....

FFS. :bitchy:

They can join in as well if they want.

Removed
03-11-2009, 09:24 PM
is there a register or something? :greengrin - this is a discussion on why we are having to remember the war dead & current soldiers at a football game !!! Your pretty naive (or stupid) if you believe the bold above. Your the geezer using the angry emoticons mate no me !!! :blah:

When did I use an angry emoticon?

We are doing it because it's a tradition. I was at bike racing in Northern Ireland and they played God Save the Queen over the pa before it started. Why? Tradition. I'm no royalist but I stood like everyone else because of one thing, respect.

Same on Saturday, I may or may not agree in the minutes silence, the wars, the parading of soldiers but I will respectfully uphold it and so will the refugees, not naive, not stupid, just got a bit of respect thats all.

basehibby
03-11-2009, 09:32 PM
ive got a ticket you Uber Hibby you :wink: - fair enuff i didn't say what my protest would be - for the record i will be getting a pie during the minutes silence - again caller whats your point ??? :dunno:

Orite - nae problem - buying a pie is an acceptable form of protest IMO.

I think my point in the first instance was in disagreeing with your summation of FalkirkHibee's earlier post as a "Pile of Pish" with no hint of an accompanying rationale.

By the by - in response to your question about hypothetical refugees being offended by the sight of British soldiers - it would kind of beg the question as to why they would take refuge in this country if they viewed our armed forces as such a heinous institution.

The Baldmans Comb
03-11-2009, 09:34 PM
I will be staying in the concourse for this one maintaining my own quiet reflective thoughts as this isn't about tradition as this so called tradition has only crept into football over the last few years.

Football is about entertainment and I will pick and choose when I decide to respect the war dead and not when it is forced on me by the powers that be at the SPL.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 09:41 PM
Orite - nae problem - buying a pie is an acceptable form of protest IMO.

I think my point in the first instance was in disagreeing with your summation of FalkirkHibee's earlier post as a "Pile of Pish" with no hint of an accompanying rationale.

By the by - in response to your question about hypothetical refugees being offended by the sight of British soldiers - it would kind of beg the question as to why they would take refuge in this country if they viewed our armed forces as such a heinous institution.

so you speak for all refugees/imigrants then - the fact that there is such heated debate about the subject should exclude it from a sporting event. Some will see it as a matter of respect & others may see it as a political tool & others want to just watch the bloody football !!!......:yawn: gonna have a kip now & dream of the cabbage

weecounty hibby
03-11-2009, 09:50 PM
I am at a total loss after reading this entire thread. I personally know four good hibbies who have served in the armed forces, thankfully all came out alive. I am willing to bet that in most conflicts/wars since 1875 there have been a good number of Hibbies serving and may well have died. I think that the least these guys and all the others who have served and fallen deserve is 1 minutes silence. It is only common decency.

Wing Half
03-11-2009, 10:00 PM
Shouldn't this thread be moved to the Holy Ground?

Titch
03-11-2009, 10:00 PM
WW2 was the last war I would have supported.

N Ireland, Falklands, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan - All Brit Imperialist or Oil-related/Yankee ass-licking embarassments

WW2 vets parading - OK :thumbsup:

British Army parading? - Not in my name!
I'll be sure to wave at you from the pitch with my combats on and my hibs scarf in hand

basehibby
03-11-2009, 10:01 PM
so you speak for all refugees/imigrants then - the fact that there is such heated debate about the subject should exclude it from a sporting event. Some will see it as a matter of respect & others may see it as a political tool & others want to just watch the bloody football !!!......:yawn: gonna have a kip now & dream of the cabbage

I've nothing against imigrants or refugees and don't speak for anyone but myself but I wholeheartedly agree with the last bit anyway.

Sweet dreams and up the Hibees :notworthy:

Hibrandenburg
03-11-2009, 10:06 PM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?


Quite a paradox. You having a go at people wanting to remember the sacrifice made by many so so that runts like you could enjoy freedom of speach.

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 10:06 PM
Shouldn't this thread be moved to the Holy Ground?

We'll take the blacks and the chinese, but stuff like this gets kept on the main board.

Rirrum!

Phil D. Rolls
03-11-2009, 10:09 PM
Quite a paradox. You having a go at people wanting to remember the sacrifice made by many so as runts like you could enjoy freedom of speach.

Be great when free speech doesn't mean being insulted by people who disagree with you. Personally, I'm at least 5 stones away from being a runt.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
03-11-2009, 10:11 PM
I've nothing against imigrants or refugees and don't speak for anyone but myself but I wholeheartedly agree with the last bit anyway.

Sweet dreams and up the Hibees :notworthy:

agreed :notworthy:

Titch
03-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Well I think I've read enough of this crap for one night I'm off to bed sure glad I don't know any hibs supporting soldiers
:boo hoo:

Hibrandenburg
03-11-2009, 10:19 PM
Be great when free speech doesn't mean being insulted by people who disagree with you. Personally, I'm at least 5 stones away from being a runt.

Dog chasing it's own tale.

He's criticising people for expressing their views and I'm criticising him for doing so which in return has drawn criticism from you.

Perfect example that free speech has to have limits and IMO he exceeded them.

Bishop Hibee
03-11-2009, 10:25 PM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

Agree 100%. Any deviation from the "poppy fascism" (copywrite John Snow, Channel 4 News presenter, who refuses to wear a poppy on TV) sees individuals howled down.

I'll be at a Remembrance Day service by choice on Sunday but it's taking things too far to have this song and dance at a football match.

Mixer O
03-11-2009, 10:37 PM
I am at a total loss after reading this entire thread. I personally know four good hibbies who have served in the armed forces, thankfully all came out alive. I am willing to bet that in most conflicts/wars since 1875 there have been a good number of Hibbies serving and may well have died. I think that the least these guys and all the others who have served and fallen deserve is 1 minutes silence. It is only common decency.

Great post.

My Grandad served in the second World war and spent 5 years as a POW. He was also a proud Hibernian fan, just like his son is now (my uncle).

I'm surprised anyone thinks Hearts are trying to get one over Hibs on this. Both clubs seem united to me.

Regards.

Aubenas
03-11-2009, 10:37 PM
It's simple really.
Whether you agree with what's going to happen, where it's going to happen, when it's going to happen, or why it's going to happen is not relevant. Someone, somewhere has decreed this will happen on Saturday.

I don't agree with the current war and I'm not a great supporter of the British Army, and I'm not sure why this should happen at a football match on November 10th but I reckon I would be letting my own principles down badly if I did anything but stand in silence and show respect just as I'd expect someone who disagreed with me to respect my remembrances.

Standing silent indicates nothing more than recognition that young men have died before their time. If one is unable to do that, knowing it will be expected of you in advance, then you probably shouldn't go.

lapsedhibee
03-11-2009, 10:38 PM
He's criticising people for expressing their views and I'm criticising him for doing so which in return has drawn criticism from you.

Perfect example that free speech has to have limits and IMO he exceeded them.

In what way did he exceed the limits of free speech, other than expressing (not particularly forcefully) an opinion with which you obviously disagree? :confused:

One Day Soon
03-11-2009, 10:39 PM
1. There are as many different views on war as a way of resolving conflict as there are wars that have taken place.

2. The idea that this particular silence, or the pan-SPL silences of which it is part, is part of some government, New Labour or politician's conspiracy is at best fanciful and at worst thoroughly deranged. Apart from anything else you will struggle to find a single politician of ANY party in either Parliament who disagrees with it.

3. Whether you like it or not there is going to be a minute's silence on Saturday live on national television. Hibernian fans are either going to respect that or disgrace ourselves failing.

4. It doesn't matter what viewpoint you hold (Imperialist British Armies, Heroic British Soldiers, the futile pointlessness of all wars, the Diana-isation of another public spectacle or whatever) it is possible for everyone of every single viewpoint to find something to meditate upon in silence. For those who can't, there's the pie stand.

5. It is entirely legitimate to debate on here the value of this particular silence and the way it is being organised - but it would be preferable I think for all concerned to be making unequivocally clear that there is no intention to do anything other than uphold the silence, regardless of from what standpoint.

6. To all service men and women past and present, thank you for what you do when others ask you to do it.

And if I do see soldiers marching on Saturday wearing Hibs and Hearts scarves, well that's the real Edinburgh - not the fantasy extreme 'us and them' world of the posturing, weird, keyboard football apartheidists we all know so well.

New Corrie
03-11-2009, 10:49 PM
Agree 100%. Any deviation from the "poppy fascism" (copywrite John Snow, Channel 4 News presenter, who refuses to wear a poppy on TV) sees individuals howled down.

I'll be at a Remembrance Day service by choice on Sunday but it's taking things too far to have this song and dance at a football match.



So where is it appropriate to have one? And as for "poppy fascism"....don't pheckin wear one if you don't want to! There is no "song and dance" from what I can see....just some ordinary punters wanting to show a bit of respect. Tell me about your "Remembrance Day Service".....is that going to be attended by the "religous snobs" that are so aloof and superior to us mere football supporting heathens that actually want to observe the silence without it getting interrupted by drunken Jakes?

lucky
03-11-2009, 10:58 PM
1. There are as many different views on war as a way of resolving conflict as there are wars that have taken place.

2. The idea that this particular silence, or the pan-SPL silences of which it is part, is part of some government, New Labour or politician's conspiracy is at best fanciful and at worst thoroughly deranged. Apart from anything else you will struggle to find a single politician of ANY party in either Parliament who disagrees with it.

3. Whether you like it or not there is going to be a minute's silence on Saturday live on national television. Hibernian fans are either going to respect that or disgrace ourselves failing.

4. It doesn't matter what viewpoint you hold (Imperialist British Armies, Heroic British Soldiers, the futile pointlessness of all wars, the Diana-isation of another public spectacle or whatever) it is possible for everyone of every single viewpoint to find something to meditate upon in silence. For those who can't, there's the pie stand.

5. It is entirely legitimate to debate on here the value of this particular silence and the way it is being organised - but it would be preferable I think for all concerned to be making unequivocally clear that there is no intention to do anything other than uphold the silence, regardless of from what standpoint.

6. To all service men and women past and present, thank you for what you do when others ask you to do it.

And if I do see soldiers marching on Saturday wearing Hibs and Hearts scarves, well that's the real Edinburgh - not the fantasy extreme 'us and them' world of the posturing, weird, keyboard football apartheidists we all know so well.

Top post mate.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

matty_f
03-11-2009, 11:01 PM
While I can see the point in asking the question about why football fans have two different minute's silences for Remembrance, I think that now that it's been decided that there is one on Saturday then it should be observed completely by those in attendance.

Do it to remember the fallen, do it out of respect for those in attendance that lost someone, do it for the club's reputation, do it out of common decency and respect.

I will be appalled if Hibs' name is disgraced because fans, bevvied or not, can't stand and stay silent for one minute to remember the war heroes.

Mixer O
03-11-2009, 11:04 PM
1. There are as many different views on war as a way of resolving conflict as there are wars that have taken place.

2. The idea that this particular silence, or the pan-SPL silences of which it is part, is part of some government, New Labour or politician's conspiracy is at best fanciful and at worst thoroughly deranged. Apart from anything else you will struggle to find a single politician of ANY party in either Parliament who disagrees with it.

3. Whether you like it or not there is going to be a minute's silence on Saturday live on national television. Hibernian fans are either going to respect that or disgrace ourselves failing.

4. It doesn't matter what viewpoint you hold (Imperialist British Armies, Heroic British Soldiers, the futile pointlessness of all wars, the Diana-isation of another public spectacle or whatever) it is possible for everyone of every single viewpoint to find something to meditate upon in silence. For those who can't, there's the pie stand.

5. It is entirely legitimate to debate on here the value of this particular silence and the way it is being organised - but it would be preferable I think for all concerned to be making unequivocally clear that there is no intention to do anything other than uphold the silence, regardless of from what standpoint.

6. To all service men and women past and present, thank you for what you do when others ask you to do it.

And if I do see soldiers marching on Saturday wearing Hibs and Hearts scarves, well that's the real Edinburgh - not the fantasy extreme 'us and them' world of the posturing, weird, keyboard football apartheidists we all know so well.

Nicely put.
:top marks

Gatecrasher
03-11-2009, 11:05 PM
I really don't understand why folk can't be silent for a minute without moaning.

If you don't support the reasons for it or :blah:

Just stay quiet for a minute and be respectful for those who do

shouldn't that just be the end of it?

Rather that than embarress the rest of the support and our club IMO

Sir David Gray
03-11-2009, 11:15 PM
absolute pish !!! :dummytit:

Fantastic counter argument.

Well done! :aok:


a posted on page3

a refugee from Iraq or Afghanistan may find the sight of british soldiers being paraded at a FOOTBALL GAME as a bit much !!!.....i respect the troops both current & past & will show my respects on wednesday, NOT AT TYNECASTLE ON SATURDAY !!! - who decided this should happen anyway, is it the SPL or is it a government direction ??? :hmmm:

Might I suggest that quite a lot of refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan might actually be thankful of the British troops' involvement in their home country over the past few years as their presence has helped to rid their countries of Saddam Hussein and the Taliban, both of which may well have violently oppressed them or their family/friends over the past few decades.

Even if they don't like the British troops, these people are now in our country and I don't see how seeing the troops parading on a football pitch is any different to seeing them parading through a town centre on their return to the UK. Do we just hide the troops away and never publicly recognise their efforts just because it might offend some people?

I'm sorry but, to me, that's unacceptable.

People's anger, if they feel strongly about the recent wars that Britain has been involved in, should be aimed at the politicians who took the decision to invade those countries in the first place. These young men and women have been sent to those places and many of them have come back in coffins or without arms and legs and with severe mental scars.

I think they fully deserve to be given recognition by the general public as I think that we all owe them a great deal of gratitude. If you don't agree then that's fine, it's up to you.

sleeping giant
03-11-2009, 11:18 PM
We'll take the blacks and the chinese, but stuff like this gets kept on the main board.

Rirrum!


:faf:

:greengrinYou can be a funny man at times FR :greengrin

W***** :eyes:

IberianHibernian
03-11-2009, 11:50 PM
Think OP was asking about necessity of having a military parade at a football match (the minute`s silence affair seems to be something that politicians or SFA have decided should be forced on all football clubs though it wasn`t done till recently and am not aware if it happens at other sports -rugby, ice hockey for example ) . If folk like military parades can they not buy a ticket for the tattoo or similar ? Not meaning to be disrespectful but when you buy your ticket for a match you expect it to be for that , a football match , not a military show . If I was going to match I`d respect the minute`s silence just as I`ve observed hundreds of others at matches in Scotland and Spain ( in most cases I haven`t known reason for silence till reading match report the next day but as many have said here it`s common decency ) but maybe it`s time for football authorities to think about limiting such silences ( or even worse applauses ) to major tragedies or deaths linked directly to clubs . It would also help if SFA indicated clearly what November silence is for - on this thread we`ve got a mix of remembering " our war heroes" with "all who have died in wars " . Incidentally , what will happen if the match is postponed because of bad weather ? Will parade be held at a future match ?

sauzee1966
04-11-2009, 12:01 AM
come on guys.....we all moan about sitting at a desk on a Monday Morning when these guys are doodging bullets...bombs...losing limbs. whether you agree or not, would you rather we were fighting them in Edinburgh or not able to have the freedom we have?
also its to remember all SERVICEMEN and WOMEN from all theatres and conflicts. Moaning about the army.....if it was not for the army through the years we would all be living in the smallest part of the German Empire where we would not have the freedom to speak our mind.

RESPECT!!




[/I][/B]


Any particular reason why it shouldn't be done at a football game ?

:confused:

marleyhib
04-11-2009, 12:02 AM
If I want to partake in a minutes silence I'll do so at 11am on 11/11 in the traditional way, IHMO Hearts should too.

I think it would be more fitting if this kind of thing was kept out of football matches.

I contrast, I found the minutes applause for the passing of George Best at ER fitting for a true football talent who was part of Hibs history. It was the right place and time for something relates to the club and its supporters.

I would never show a lack of respect for anyone who fought for their country, there is a time and a place for the remembering the brave people who payed the ultimate sacrifice in WW1.

macca70
04-11-2009, 12:31 AM
If I want to partake in a minutes silence I'll do so at 11am on 11/11 in the traditional way, IHMO Hearts should too.

I think it would be more fitting if this kind of thing was kept out of football matches.

I contrast, I found the minutes applause for the passing of George Best at ER fitting for a true football talent who was part of Hibs history. It was the right place and time for something relates to the club and its supporters.

I would never show a lack of respect for anyone who fought for their country, there is a time and a place for the remembering the brave people who payed the ultimate sacrifice in WW1.

:top marks

Absolutely spot on.

If I want to pause for a minutes thoughts for those that lost their lives whilst fighting for their country, i'll do it; at home, at a church service or remembrance service on Sunday 11th November.

There is a time and a place, a football ground, 2 mins prior to kick off is IMO not the appropriate time or place.

blackpoolhibs
04-11-2009, 12:36 AM
:top marks

Absolutely spot on.

If I want to pause for a minutes thoughts for those that lost their lives whilst fighting for their country, i'll do it; at home, at a church service or remembrance service on Sunday 11th November.

There is a time and a place, a football ground, 2 mins prior to kick off is IMO not the appropriate time or place.

You are not given the choice though. Football in Scotland have decided there will be a minutes silence on saturday. Why would anyone object, or not show respect for one minute, these people deserve it, dont they?:confused:

macca70
04-11-2009, 12:42 AM
You are not given the choice though. Football in Scotland have decided there will be a minutes silence on saturday. Why would anyone object, or not show respect for one minute, these people deserve it, dont they?:confused:

I will respect it, yes they do deserve it.

I fully agree, it is correct that we pay our respects to those that lost their lives fighting for our country.

I dont agree, that a football ground, 2 mins prior to kick off is the appropriate time and place for it though.

The Harp Awakes
04-11-2009, 12:42 AM
Minutes silence on Saturday - yes please. Army on the pitch - no thanks.

blackpoolhibs
04-11-2009, 12:47 AM
I will respect it and fully agree, it is correct that we pay our respects to those that lost their lives fighting for our country.

I dont agree, that a football ground, 2 mins prior to kick off is the appropriate time and place for it though.

Good. :thumbsup:. This is footballs chance to show respect , and we have to abide with it, whatever our own thoughts.

GieTheBaTaeReilly
04-11-2009, 01:26 AM
Right, I'm coming back on this and yes I've had a pint or four.

I doubt that anyone can argue that the whole point of "remembrance" as a whole is to commemorate the fallen/injured on any side of any conflict, no matter how right or wrong that conflict may be deemed to be.

I am all for the youth of today being allowed to express themselves and the liberal in me says that we should never ever force any dogma on our young people, BUT the whole concept that conflict is bad and it can cause a great deal of (often unnecessary) loss is quite a big one, and again one that no-one surely can argue with.

If one kid, just one, on Saturday, whether at home or at the game says "Daddy, why are there soldier's marching?" then I couldn't give a flying Foulkes about how many folk are upset about there oh so precious half-time being interrupted.

Imagine, if Hertz decided to parade a troupe of short-skirted "Jamborettes" to noise up the crowd at half-time, there'd be less of a furore.

There are far far more important things to get upset about in this world and if being asked respectfully to remember the war dead is SUCH a big deal then it's surely worth going for a pie/pish/fag/chat/boycotting the match over.

Put up or shut up (for a minute)

M

and that's not at any particular poster.

Hibercelona
04-11-2009, 01:50 AM
Don't know what the huge debate's about TBH.

Just keep your mouth shut for 1 minute.... it's hardly difficult.

If they want soldiers parading on the pitch, then so be it.

Marooned In Oz
04-11-2009, 03:00 AM
Spot on. Do the right thing and show some dignified respect.

There is a minutes silence at EVERY game this weekend but yet some Hibs fans think Hearts fans are stroking themselves at the notion if Hibs ruining the minutes silence. Nothing could be further from the truth in my eyes.

I, for one, would be proud that our two Edinburgh football clubs can stand side by side on the first Derby of the year, and respectfully observe this silence.

I find a lot of the posts on here and kickback to be most distasteful and not a very accurate snapshot of the wider support.

To suggest that hearts are using this as a vehicle for some kind of twisted one-upmanship is ludicrous and extremely paranoid.

I am proud of my clubs involvement in WW1 and there is nothing wrong with that. Our memorial at Haymarket is not in its rightful place this year, so we have a picture of it on our shirt. Where is the problem with that? My club is proud of the sacrifices of our players in the war – what is the problem? We aren’t trying to hijack Remembrance Day and I find it quite sad and a little bit of a joke that people are suggesting that we are.

I urge all of you to respect the silence, and once that is done, I’m sure you’ll be keen to remind us how ***** we are and how much better you are on the pitch you are. (can’t really argue at this stage - I just hope that we can kick start our season against you lot ;) ).

Hearts and Hibs fans on these websites seem to think we’re two completely different species when in reality; we’re both on the whole, decent people who love following their football team.

Let’s show the rest of the country and particularly those c*nts out west that we can be civil and stand together to respect those who have died bravely in combat, regardless of your view on Iraq, Afghanistan and the Falklands.

(I have my views on these too and they are hardly favourable, but soldiers and governments are two separate entities…)

Hibercelona
04-11-2009, 03:06 AM
There is a minutes silence at EVERY game this weekend but yet some Hibs fans think Hearts fans are stroking themselves at the notion if Hibs ruining the minutes silence. Nothing could be further from the truth in my eyes.

I, for one, would be proud that our two Edinburgh football clubs can stand side by side on the first Derby of the year, and respectfully observe this silence.

I find a lot of the posts on here and kickback to be most distasteful and not a very accurate snapshot of the wider support.

To suggest that hearts are using this as a vehicle for some kind of twisted one-upmanship is ludicrous and extremely paranoid.

I am proud of my clubs involvement in WW1 and there is nothing wrong with that. Our memorial at Haymarket is not in its rightful place this year, so we have a picture of it on our shirt. Where is the problem with that? My club is proud of the sacrifices of our players in the war – what is the problem? We aren’t trying to hijack Remembrance Day and I find it quite sad and a little bit of a joke that people are suggesting that we are.

I urge all of you to respect the silence, and once that is done, I’m sure you’ll be keen to remind us how ***** we are and how much better you are on the pitch you are. (can’t really argue at this stage - I just hope that we can kick start our season against you lot ;) ).

Hearts and Hibs fans on these websites seem to think we’re two completely different species when in reality; we’re both on the whole, decent people who love following their football team.

Let’s show the rest of the country and particularly those c*nts out west that we can be civil and stand together to respect those who have died bravely in combat, regardless of your view on Iraq, Afghanistan and the Falklands.

(I have my views on these too and they are hardly favourable, but soldiers and governments are two separate entities…)

I don't think one person here is stating that they have a problem with respecting remembrance day.... as "everybody"... had relatives that were involved in the war.

Whats peeving people off is that Hearts are making Remembrance day more focused on themselves


I am proud of my clubs involvement in WW1 and there is nothing wrong with that.

Thats the main problem here...

"Hearts" are proud of their involvement in the war.

The respect should be spread out to everyone that was involved in the war... not just "Hearts" involvement in the war.

That's why it's angered a fair few people on here and rightfully so.

Marooned In Oz
04-11-2009, 03:24 AM
I don't think one person here is stating that they have a problem with respecting remembrance day.... as "everybody"... had relatives that were involved in the war.

Whats peeving people off is that Hearts are making Remembrance day more focused on themselves



Thats the main problem here...

"Hearts" are proud of their involvement in the war.

The respect should be spread out to everyone that was involved in the war... not just "Hearts" involvement in the war.

That's why it's angered a fair few people on here and rightfully so.

Just because Hearts have their own way of remembering their players that fell in the great war, doesn't mean that it dilutes the ability of the other clubs in the SPL to respect and remember the fallen...

I understand what you're saying, but I do not agree with you.

It is a coincidence that we are playing each other on the weekend before rememberence day and I think we have every right to do the things we would normally do at this time of the year.

Playing hibs should not change how we approach this day just because some people might get offended, IMO.

Hibercelona
04-11-2009, 03:45 AM
Just because Hearts have their own way of remembering their players that fell in the great war, doesn't mean that it dilutes the ability of the other clubs in the SPL to respect and remember the fallen...

I understand what you're saying, but I do not agree with you.

It is a coincidence that we are playing each other on the weekend before rememberence day and I think we have every right to do the things we would normally do at this time of the year.

Playing hibs should not change how we approach this day just because some people might get offended, IMO.

Hibs fans aren't saying they should "change" anything... they are saying that it should never have been celebrated this way in the first place.

Hearts coming out with things like strips to respect the death of "Legendary Hearts players"... leaves a rather bitter taste in the mouth IMO.

No way were their sacrifices any more commendable than the lives lost of many.

You don't see any other teams coming out with remembrance strips to respect their clubs losses and nobody else's.

Why should Hearts be any exception?

Marooned In Oz
04-11-2009, 04:17 AM
Hibs fans aren't saying they should "change" anything... they are saying that it should never have been celebrated this way in the first place.

Hearts coming out with things like strips to respect the death of "Legendary Hearts players"... leaves a rather bitter taste in the mouth IMO.

No way were their sacrifices any more commendable than the lives lost of many.

You don't see any other teams coming out with remembrance strips to respect their clubs losses and nobody else's.

Why should Hearts be any exception?


If it leave a bitter taste in your mouth that says more about you than about Hearts' decision to honour the ENTIRE first team that signed up for world war one in their own way. "legendary Hearts players???" What are you talking about? Hearts bringing out a strip in which the proceeds go to Charity leaves a bitter taste in my mouth too right enough.

Who is saying their sacrifice is greater than anyone elses? You're the one who is taking it in that way because you're obviously looking for something to have a pop at Hearts for.

Mate, there are plenty things to have a pop at Hearts over, both on and off the pitch but this is definitely not one of them.

I don't see why you have a problem with it and I have a really hard time understanding it actually.

Petty point scoring over stuff like this.

Pretty sad if you ask me mate.

Hibercelona
04-11-2009, 04:41 AM
If it leave a bitter taste in your mouth that says more about you than about Hearts' decision to honour the ENTIRE first team that signed up for world war one in their own way. "legendary Hearts players???" What are you talking about? Hearts bringing out a strip in which the proceeds go to Charity leaves a bitter taste in my mouth too right enough.

Who is saying their sacrifice is greater than anyone elses? You're the one who is taking it in that way because you're obviously looking for something to have a pop at Hearts for.

Mate, there are plenty things to have a pop at Hearts over, both on and off the pitch but this is definitely not one of them.

I don't see why you have a problem with it and I have a really hard time understanding it actually.

Petty point scoring over stuff like this.

Pretty sad if you ask me mate.

You honestly think I would use something like remembrance day to have a pop at a football team? :confused:

You still haven't answered my question.

What makes Hearts any exception? :confused:

Nakedmanoncrack
04-11-2009, 05:45 AM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?
:top marks

bighairyfaeleith
04-11-2009, 06:18 AM
If it leave a bitter taste in your mouth that says more about you than about Hearts' decision to honour the ENTIRE first team that signed up for world war one in their own way. "legendary Hearts players???" What are you talking about? Hearts bringing out a strip in which the proceeds go to Charity leaves a bitter taste in my mouth too right enough.

Who is saying their sacrifice is greater than anyone elses? You're the one who is taking it in that way because you're obviously looking for something to have a pop at Hearts for.

Mate, there are plenty things to have a pop at Hearts over, both on and off the pitch but this is definitely not one of them.

I don't see why you have a problem with it and I have a really hard time understanding it actually.

Petty point scoring over stuff like this.

Pretty sad if you ask me mate.

I think this debate is getting twisted a bit by both parties. For me the only problem I have is with Hearts over doing the event, it's a football game, not a carnival. have a minutes silence and let everyone remember, do we need a marching band? Do we need mikey stewart saying that beating hibs while wearing the commemorative strip would be super duper special??

I'll happily stand in silence for a minute no worries, will I believe that the rest isn't very cynical by hearts, nope absolutely not.

I don't for one second think that the majority of heartts fans view it as a point scoring exercise and only want to honour the WW1 veterans as well by the way, I think it's the pimps that run your club.

Just my tuppence worth

oregonhibby
04-11-2009, 06:37 AM
The minutes silence is to honour the dead and those who fought. People who had no choice but to fight.

Even if you do not agree with it and do not want to honour those who fought and died the least you could do is not interupt or disrupt those who do. Absent yourself from the seating area, sit down, turn your back or do what you want to do but keep quiet.

My great grandfathers went to war aged 36 and 52 respectively. Both served in France and survived and I will honour what they did in private, at the game, on Rememberance Sunday and on the 11th. Indeed, I will honour those honest men who fought against us. It is not about politics it is about respect.

In my view.

lapsedhibee
04-11-2009, 07:43 AM
"legendary Hearts players???" What are you talking about?

Possibly talking about the strip which Hertz wore a couple of years ago (at 'todders?) which had on it the names of the seven (?) first team players who died in WWI?

Southampton had a number of players who died in WWII. I would be very interested to know whether they have ever brought out a commemorative strip with their war dead listed on it. I really really doubt it, as the people who run Southampton FC, unlike those who run HOMFC, probably realise that to go on and on and on and on about the extraordinary sacrifice made by their players is to disrespect those millions of others who fell.

Tacky doesn't even begin to describe the current Hertz management's approach to Remembrance. If they had any proper sense of the occasion they would be doing everything they could, in the week before the bear pit of a Tynecastle derby, to keep things sombre. Instead they put Mikey Mikey Used To Be up for interview to tell us how much better Remembrance is if Hertz beat Hibs. FFS. Enjoy your day on Saturday.

Hibercelona
04-11-2009, 08:13 AM
The minutes silence is to honour the dead and those who fought. People who had no choice but to fight.

Even if you do not agree with it and do not want to honour those who fought and died the least you could do is not interupt or disrupt those who do. Absent yourself from the seating area, sit down, turn your back or do what you want to do but keep quiet.

My great grandfathers went to war aged 36 and 52 respectively. Both served in France and survived and I will honour what they did in private, at the game, on Rememberance Sunday and on the 11th. Indeed, I will honour those honest men who fought against us. It is not about politics it is about respect.

In my view.

Nobodies saying they disagree with respecting those that fought in the war. I suggest you actually read the posts in the thread before making that kind of assumption.

I won't be at Tynecastle and I won't be holding a minutes silence at that time either.

I will however hold a 2 minute silence on the 11th as appropriate.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
04-11-2009, 08:18 AM
Fantastic counter argument.
I think they fully deserve to be given recognition by the general public as I think that we all owe them a great deal of gratitude. If you don't agree then that's fine, it's up to you.

they already do FH - infact they have two days IIRC :wink: - there's always 2 sides to every story my friend, so we rid Iraq of an evil dictator then (thought it was WMD's?) - I will not disgrace our club on saturday but equally I will not be lectured to on a subject that has so many different viewpoints !!!

HFC 0-7
04-11-2009, 08:42 AM
I still cant believe this thread. Even if you dont really agree with the timing of the request to be silent for 1 minute, surely people must agree and respect the minutes silence itself. The SPL wants to show publicly its respect to those people who died in the wars.

How dare anyone ask you to be silent for 1 minute extra out of the 37,509,120 minutes you have in your lifetime!

Sounds to me like people just dont like things thrust upon them, however, if it wasnt for the people that we are being asked to remember for 1 minute extra, imagine the other things we would have had thrust upon us by now!

brownkg
04-11-2009, 08:59 AM
Possibly talking about the strip which Hertz wore a couple of years ago (at 'todders?) which had on it the names of the seven (?) first team players who died in WWI?

Southampton had a number of players who died in WWII. I would be very interested to know whether they have ever brought out a commemorative strip with their war dead listed on it. I really really doubt it, as the people who run Southampton FC, unlike those who run HOMFC, probably realise that to go on and on and on and on about the extraordinary sacrifice made by their players is to disrespect those millions of others who fell.

Tacky doesn't even begin to describe the current Hertz management's approach to Remembrance. If they had any proper sense of the occasion they would be doing everything they could, in the week before the bear pit of a Tynecastle derby, to keep things sombre. Instead they put Mikey Mikey Used To Be up for interview to tell us how much better Remembrance is if Hertz beat Hibs. FFS. Enjoy your day on Saturday.

The English club which followed the lead of Hearts in mass volunteering was the Orient the is a nice wee book called £They took the lead" available from them on this .Many people joined the Battalion and McCrae's is something all of Edinburgh should be proud of. Hibs have , as Falkirk and Raith Rovers have too, officially laid wreaths at Haymarket for a number of years. The game before rememberance Sunday has always been marked by a minutes silence. To my mind it is only the creeping selfishness of the last 20 years that has led to the attitude of many on this, and other, websites displayed with such vitriol from the anonymity of a keyboard. I find it staggering that main message of the weekend is drowned in a sea of such petty ill informed arguements

Tinyclothes
04-11-2009, 09:05 AM
I still cant believe this thread. Even if you dont really agree with the timing of the request to be silent for 1 minute, surely people must agree and respect the minutes silence itself. The SPL wants to show publicly its respect to those people who died in the wars.

How dare anyone ask you to be silent for 1 minute extra out of the 37,509,120 minutes you have in your lifetime!

Sounds to me like people just dont like things thrust upon them, however, if it wasnt for the people that we are being asked to remember for 1 minute extra, imagine the other things we would have had thrust upon us by now!

That's not the point of this thread mate. I have no problem with it personally but if you read peoples posts, especially wee hibee then you'll see what you wrote is missing the point.

The Godfather
04-11-2009, 09:15 AM
Hibs fans aren't saying they should "change" anything... they are saying that it should never have been celebrated this way in the first place.

Hearts coming out with things like strips to respect the death of "Legendary Hearts players"... leaves a rather bitter taste in the mouth IMO.

No way were their sacrifices any more commendable than the lives lost of many.

You don't see any other teams coming out with remembrance strips to respect their clubs losses and nobody else's.

Why should Hearts be any exception?


Wrong mate, you should be saying some hibs fans and you do not speak for anyone but yourself.

lapsedhibee
04-11-2009, 09:16 AM
The English club which followed the lead of Hearts in mass volunteering was the Orient the is a nice wee book called £They took the lead" available from them on this .Many people joined the Battalion and McCrae's is something all of Edinburgh should be proud of. Hibs have , as Falkirk and Raith Rovers have too, officially laid wreaths at Haymarket for a number of years. The game before rememberance Sunday has always been marked by a minutes silence. To my mind it is only the creeping selfishness of the last 20 years that has led to the attitude of many on this, and other, websites displayed with such vitriol from the anonymity of a keyboard. I find it staggering that main message of the weekend is drowned in a sea of such petty ill informed arguements

Are you a yam?

I ask because (1) you don't appear to see any difference between, on the one hand, laying a wreath at Haymarket for all the fallen and, on the other, stitching the names of dead Hearts players into football strips (2) whatever (if any) post you thought you were replying to, you have instead taken the opportunity to remind us all that Hertz took a lead, every one of us should be proud of McCrae's Battalion, etc, and (3) anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is selfish, petty and ill informed.

JT Fae The Toon
04-11-2009, 09:21 AM
Is there any particular reason why it should?


.

Maybe my avatar will help to answer your question.

Players & fans from both clubs fought and died side by side in both world wars - it's not too much too ask that we honour their memory without petty point scoring is it?

HFC 0-7
04-11-2009, 09:26 AM
That's not the point of this thread mate. I have no problem with it personally but if you read peoples posts, especially wee hibee then you'll see what you wrote is missing the point.

If you look at the OP it is talking about the minutes silence, parading, poppies on sale, asking basically whats next! I am saying that is it too much to ask that we respect it, regardless of what day it is and how it is being organised. The purpose of it, regardless of what day, who is parading etc is that it is to remember the people that put their lives on the line. Think its you that has missed something

The Godfather
04-11-2009, 09:29 AM
Are you a yam?

I ask because (1) you don't appear to see any difference between, on the one hand, laying a wreath at Haymarket for all the fallen and, on the other, stitching the names of dead Hearts players into football strips (2) whatever (if any) post you thought you were replying to, you have instead taken the opportunity to remind us all that Hertz took a lead, every one of us should be proud of McCrae's Battalion, etc, and (3) anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is selfish, petty and ill informed.


I must be a YAM as well because I agree with his points:blah:

lapsedhibee
04-11-2009, 09:33 AM
I must be a YAM as well because I agree with his points:blah:

Good that you're up front about it :agree:

matty_f
04-11-2009, 09:38 AM
There is a minutes silence at EVERY game this weekend but yet some Hibs fans think Hearts fans are stroking themselves at the notion if Hibs ruining the minutes silence. Nothing could be further from the truth in my eyes.

I, for one, would be proud that our two Edinburgh football clubs can stand side by side on the first Derby of the year, and respectfully observe this silence.

I find a lot of the posts on here and kickback to be most distasteful and not a very accurate snapshot of the wider support.

To suggest that hearts are using this as a vehicle for some kind of twisted one-upmanship is ludicrous and extremely paranoid.

I am proud of my clubs involvement in WW1 and there is nothing wrong with that. Our memorial at Haymarket is not in its rightful place this year, so we have a picture of it on our shirt. Where is the problem with that? My club is proud of the sacrifices of our players in the war – what is the problem? We aren’t trying to hijack Remembrance Day and I find it quite sad and a little bit of a joke that people are suggesting that we are.

I urge all of you to respect the silence, and once that is done, I’m sure you’ll be keen to remind us how ***** we are and how much better you are on the pitch you are. (can’t really argue at this stage - I just hope that we can kick start our season against you lot ;) ).

Hearts and Hibs fans on these websites seem to think we’re two completely different species when in reality; we’re both on the whole, decent people who love following their football team.

Let’s show the rest of the country and particularly those c*nts out west that we can be civil and stand together to respect those who have died bravely in combat, regardless of your view on Iraq, Afghanistan and the Falklands.

(I have my views on these too and they are hardly favourable, but soldiers and governments are two separate entities…)



:top marks Not often I'll agree with one of you lot on here, but that's spot on. This isn't about Hearts and Hibs, though both clubs are officially behind it, it's about respect and remembrance.

There should be absolutely no question of people disrupting the silence.

(In saying that, I don't think anyone has said that they won't observe it).

The Godfather
04-11-2009, 09:39 AM
Good that you're up front about it :agree:

Would that not make you guilty through association:rolleyes:

Mikey
04-11-2009, 09:41 AM
There should be absolutely no question of people disrupting the silence.




Indeed. If those who don't agree with it won't keep quiet in respect of the occasion how's about you keep quiet in respect of your fellow Hibs fans. The rest of us don't want to be dragged down by you.

Or do you have no respect whatsoever?

matty_f
04-11-2009, 09:42 AM
Hibs fans aren't saying they should "change" anything... they are saying that it should never have been celebrated this way in the first place.

Hearts coming out with things like strips to respect the death of "Legendary Hearts players"... leaves a rather bitter taste in the mouth IMO.

No way were their sacrifices any more commendable than the lives lost of many.

You don't see any other teams coming out with remembrance strips to respect their clubs losses and nobody else's.

Why should Hearts be any exception?

Sure I recall Hibs having a shirt with a poppy on it recently.

People need to be careful not to twist this into something it's not.

Whilst I do think the Yams have been guilty of cynically exploiting their connections, the minute silence is clearly something that is happening across Scottish football.

Tinyclothes
04-11-2009, 09:42 AM
If you look at the OP it is talking about the minutes silence, parading, poppies on sale, asking basically whats next! I am saying that is it too much to ask that we respect it, regardless of what day it is and how it is being organised. The purpose of it, regardless of what day, who is parading etc is that it is to remember the people that put their lives on the line. Think its you that has missed something

The yams are trying to turn it into a day to remember their role in the war. That's it.

marinello59
04-11-2009, 09:44 AM
The yams are trying to turn it into a day to remember their role in the war. That's it.

Even if that were true does it stop Hibs fans from acting in a dignified and respectful manner?

matty_f
04-11-2009, 09:46 AM
The yams are trying to turn it into a day to remember their role in the war. That's it.

Pish. Why are all SPL clubs doing it then? Have the Yams roped them all in? :crazy:

Danderhall Hibs
04-11-2009, 09:46 AM
There is a minutes silence at EVERY game this weekend but yet some Hibs fans think Hearts fans are stroking themselves at the notion if Hibs ruining the minutes silence. Nothing could be further from the truth in my eyes.

I, for one, would be proud that our two Edinburgh football clubs can stand side by side on the first Derby of the year, and respectfully observe this silence.

I find a lot of the posts on here and kickback to be most distasteful and not a very accurate snapshot of the wider support.

To suggest that hearts are using this as a vehicle for some kind of twisted one-upmanship is ludicrous and extremely paranoid.

I am proud of my clubs involvement in WW1 and there is nothing wrong with that. Our memorial at Haymarket is not in its rightful place this year, so we have a picture of it on our shirt. Where is the problem with that? My club is proud of the sacrifices of our players in the war – what is the problem? We aren’t trying to hijack Remembrance Day and I find it quite sad and a little bit of a joke that people are suggesting that we are.

I urge all of you to respect the silence, and once that is done, I’m sure you’ll be keen to remind us how ***** we are and how much better you are on the pitch you are. (can’t really argue at this stage - I just hope that we can kick start our season against you lot ;) ).

Hearts and Hibs fans on these websites seem to think we’re two completely different species when in reality; we’re both on the whole, decent people who love following their football team.

Let’s show the rest of the country and particularly those c*nts out west that we can be civil and stand together to respect those who have died bravely in combat, regardless of your view on Iraq, Afghanistan and the Falklands.

(I have my views on these too and they are hardly favourable, but soldiers and governments are two separate entities…)


Well said mate.

lapsedhibee
04-11-2009, 09:47 AM
Let’s show the rest of the country and particularly those c*nts out west that we can be civil and stand together to respect those who have died bravely in combat, regardless of your view on Iraq, Afghanistan and the Falklands.


Think you'll find that large numbers of people from the Glasgow area died in World Wars - "c*nts" as you put it. Whether some of them might perhaps have been religious bigots is entirely beside the point. They will have died just as bravely as people from the east (who were presumably not c*nts). Scarcely credible that in a long post purporting to be about "respect" for the fallen you should choose to make such a trivial east-west of Scotland fitba-rivalry remark.

down-the-slope
04-11-2009, 09:47 AM
been reading through posts for a while and find myself being able to agree with both sides of the discussion, summarised as

Its not too much to ask to.......etc etc

Why is this being foisted on fans at a football match....etc etc

The question I have is how many of Saturdays 18,000 will be at churches on Sunday morning or at memorials on wednesday? These are the long standing places and times for people to voluntarily - and by having to make some effort on their part - spend some time thinking about the lives lost in conflicts of the past.

In no way am I saying anyone should go out of their way to dis-respect......but if you really want to respect then you should go out of your way....not just have a moment of convienience.

JT Fae The Toon
04-11-2009, 09:51 AM
The yams are trying to turn it into a day to remember their role in the war. That's it.

Suggest you pay a visit to The Somme or any other WW1 battle fields. The bullets and the bombs didn't really care what scarf you were wearing.

There was no conscription in WW1 so people had to volunteer to fight and they did so in "Pals Battalions". The Hearts team of 1914 were certainly used as a "recruiting sergeant" by Sir George McCrae but it's inconceiveable to think that both sets of supporters wouldn't have responded.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that this is anything other than a mark of respect to the brave citizens of Edinburgh and surrounding areas. Other parts of the country will mark their own sacrifices in a similar fashion.

HFC 0-7
04-11-2009, 09:55 AM
The yams are trying to turn it into a day to remember their role in the war. That's it.

Whats the rest of scottish football doing then? I think you are blinded by your hatred of the YAMS and are looking for something that isnt there. Its the SPL that has organised this across football not hearts.

Tinyclothes
04-11-2009, 09:57 AM
Suggest you pay a visit to The Somme or any other WW1 battle fields. The bullets and the bombs didn't really care what scarf you were wearing.

There was no conscription in WW1 so people had to volunteer to fight and they did so in "Pals Battalions". The Hearts team of 1914 were certainly used as a "recruiting sergeant" by Sir George McCrae but it's inconceiveable to think that both sets of supporters wouldn't have responded.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that this is anything other than a mark of respect to the brave citizens of Edinburgh and surrounding areas. Other parts of the country will mark their own sacrifices in a similar fashion.

I suggest you stop making suggestions on what I do mate. I have been to the Somme for your reference not that that's important in this debate. Look, I can;t be bothered squabbling with you, I just think folk coming on here and spouting on about 'proud heroes' and 'galant veterans' just so they can feel important and a bit better about themselves is a load on nonsense. Like it had been said before, everyone knows folk who fought in the war and I don't need a bunch of soulless rats telling me what to believe. I'll pay my respects on the 11th and not before we ram it right up your self righteous nono. I will be quiet for the silence but that's for my fellow Hibees and not to bring any shame on the club.

lapsedhibee
04-11-2009, 09:59 AM
Sure I recall Hibs having a shirt with a poppy on it recently.
Yes we have, and will again on Saturday.


Whilst I do think the Yams have been guilty of cynically exploiting their connections

Think that was wee hibee's point - the recent OTT strip with individual names of dead players on it


the minute silence is clearly something that is happening across Scottish football.
I've read this whole thread and in 230-odd posts I haven't seen anyone hinting that they would want to disrupt the silence.

marinello59
04-11-2009, 10:12 AM
I suggest you stop making suggestions on what I do mate. I have been to the Somme for your reference not that that's important in this debate. Look, I can;t be bothered squabbling with you, I just think folk coming on here and spouting on about 'proud heroes' and 'galant veterans' just so they can feel important and a bit better about themselves is a load on nonsense. Like it had been said before, everyone knows folk who fought in the war and I don't need a bunch of soulless rats telling me what to believe. I'll pay my respects on the 11th and not before we ram it right up your self righteous nono. I will be quiet for the silence but that's for my fellow Hibees and not to bring any shame on the club.

No need for that at all. None.

Tinyclothes
04-11-2009, 10:14 AM
No need for that at all. None.

No need for your comment. None.

marinello59
04-11-2009, 10:16 AM
No need for your comment. None.

All I am asking is that you stick to the issue rather throw out cheap jibes. Not to much to ask surely?

macca70
04-11-2009, 10:33 AM
I've yet to read a post where anyone says they will disrupt the minutes silence.

I fully understand the reasoning as does everyone that's posted and I will observe the minutes silence.

The arguement is not whether or not people will observe the minutes silence because everyone is in agreement that they will.

The arguement is about, why is it appropriate to have a minutes silence 2 mins before a footy match on 10th November.

The appropriate time is Sunday morning of 11th nov, in yer hoose, at church or at a memorial service.

The arguement seems to be getting twisted, we all understand the reasoning and feel it is appropriate that we remember those that fought for our country but a football ground 2 mins before kick off is not an appropriate time or place.

Leithenhibby
04-11-2009, 10:42 AM
I'll probably be in a minority but what is the point in any of this? You goto a fitba match and you'll be subjected to a minutes silence 1 day or 4 days before the actual remeberence day(s). Not only that you'll have to watch british soldiers parade up and down a football field. We're told to leave our politics at the turnstile, which is 100% fine by me, but clubs then are marching soldiers up and down the pitch at halftime....?

Saturday will be like being at a british army services day. Poppys on sale, minute's silence, soldiers parading. All very americanised. Since when was this the done thing at a football game?

The fact that another 5 lost their lives today :bitchy: so you can go to the footie safe. Get a grip man..no doubt you were always after this sort of reaction..( and your right to have your opinion) so for that reason I'm out.:rolleyes:

Antifa Hibs
04-11-2009, 10:45 AM
Some absulute drivel in this thread.

No one, absulutely no one has said anything about distrupting the silence, yet we've had posts along the lines off ''Anyone booing in block X row Y will get smashed'', "I am at a total loss as to why some people are unable/unwilling to observe a minute's silence", and to qoute this topper from Berlin to me " Quite a paradox. You having a go at people wanting to remember the sacrifice made by many so so that runts like you could enjoy freedom of speach." :faf::faf:

For the 1st two qoutes, please show me where anyone on this thread has said they won't observe the silence.

And Berlin for the last one, were am I having a go?


Some people should check, then check again, then make sure they ain't posting made up nonsense before hitting the submit button.

Arch Stanton
04-11-2009, 10:47 AM
:top marks Not often I'll agree with one of you lot on here, but that's spot on. This isn't about Hearts and Hibs, though both clubs are officially behind it, it's about respect and remembrance.

There should be absolutely no question of people disrupting the silence.

(In saying that, I don't think anyone has said that they won't observe it).

I must admit that days are long gone since I could feel relaxed enough to think about respect or remembrance at these things - it's more about wondering if the drunken stragglers will realise what is happening and stop the songs and chants as they come in , or about waiting for some idiot to make a load cough followed by all the indignant shushes or about waiting for some real disruption by some attention seeker shouting some kind of protest.

There are moments I reflect on war and the impact on peoples lives, past and present and I think that is only right and proper. Reading today about the 5 more who died in Helmand gave me a bad feeling and no doubt it to the other posters on here as well.

However I don't feel I am being any less 'respectful' when I say that I wish that the 1-minute silence was replaced by something shorter and more appropriate for the times we live in. It strikes me that either the silence will go well and everyone will be self-congratulatory or it will go badly and then we will have the indignant condemnations of the louts, and I don't see the point because louts do what louts do.

HFC 0-7
04-11-2009, 10:57 AM
I've yet to read a post where anyone says they will disrupt the minutes silence.

I fully understand the reasoning as does everyone that's posted and I will observe the minutes silence.

The arguement is not whether or not people will observe the minutes silence because everyone is in agreement that they will.

The arguement is about, why is it appropriate to have a minutes silence 2 mins before a footy match on 10th November.

The appropriate time is Sunday morning of 11th nov, in yer hoose, at church or at a memorial service.

The arguement seems to be getting twisted, we all understand the reasoning and feel it is appropriate that we remember those that fought for our country but a football ground 2 mins before kick off is not an appropriate time or place.

Why is not an appropriate time? I think its a great sight and good to be part of when it is observed. Its on TV very public and shows to everyone that the clubs are supporting a respecting it. The problem is that people may not respect it, and that is basically what people are discussing on this board.

poolman
04-11-2009, 10:59 AM
My little tuppence worth here

I think this thread is, or has been for a while getting carried away with too many opinions about the whole Remembrance thing and what should or should not happen around this whole time of year re. 11th Nov

Let's just go there on Sat and observe, as we should do, with respect the minutes silence, anybody who does not I hope will be rounded on and shamed after the minutes silence is over

It's not difficult to do and I believe that we all will do that

If nobody agrees with the Soldiers marching at half-time because they think the Yams are point scoring, away and go for a slash or a pie, again not a difficult thing to do

Phil D. Rolls
04-11-2009, 11:01 AM
Dog chasing it's own tale.

He's criticising people for expressing their views and I'm criticising him for doing so which in return has drawn criticism from you.

Perfect example that free speech has to have limits and IMO he exceeded them.

I'm criticising the way that you personalised the debate. It's an emotive subject, but I think we have to respect each others' right to have our own views on it.

Cabbage East
04-11-2009, 11:01 AM
The fact that another 5 lost their lives today :bitchy: so you can go to the footie safe. Get a grip man..no doubt you were always after this sort of reaction..( and your right to have your opinion) so for that reason I'm out.:rolleyes:


Really? You sure about that?

Phil D. Rolls
04-11-2009, 11:11 AM
Really? You sure about that?

Looks like the propaganda is hitting home, I'd be interested to see whether support for the Afghan war increases in the coming weeks. We seem to have moved from respecting the job that the soldiers do, to rallying behind the Union Jack. We're all just pawns in a game.

Beefster
04-11-2009, 11:12 AM
Really? You sure about that?

You're suggesting that we're not in Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda?

Or are they not a threat?

Leithenhibby
04-11-2009, 11:18 AM
Really? You sure about that?


As sure as sure can be.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8341659.stm

HFC 0-7
04-11-2009, 11:20 AM
My little tuppence worth here

I think this thread is, or has been for a while getting carried away with too many opinions about the whole Remembrance thing and what should or should not happen around this whole time of year re. 11th Nov

Let's just go there on Sat and observe, as we should do, with respect the minutes silence, anybody who does not I hope will be rounded on and shamed after the minutes silence is over

It's not difficult to do and I believe that we all will do that

If nobody agrees with the Soldiers marching at half-time because they think the Yams are point scoring, away and go for a slash or a pie, again not a difficult thing to do

:top marks

SolentHibee
04-11-2009, 11:27 AM
I've tried not to comment on this thread but I cannot keep my fingers off the keyboard on this one! Sorry it is so long but I'm sure you can stop if you get bored.

As a currently serving Army medic of many years Service who has seen what level of casualties we are treating, I am in the position of seeing what war does.

Some posters here are clearly anti-military, which is their right, perhaps seeing the services as an imperialist tool of oppression (which they can of course be) whilst hopefully not ignoring the reality that the organisations exist to implement policies decided on by a democratically elected government; re-elected over the period of the Iraq disaster. And yes I know it was a cabinet/Blair decision but you know what I mean.

Anyway, it is disappointing nevertheless to see by their language that the sight of British soldiers offends people so much when my own opinion is that it is the politicians you should be after. It is easy to experience some disquiet over their appearance at Tynie; acknowledging their contribution in any way for some would be tantamount to giving approval for Afghanistan and some cannot forgive the Army for actions carried out by some of those serving and those who are long dead.

I myself have a bit of an issue about people falling over themselves to put soldiers on display ( a rather recent phenomenon) and the only justification I can accept for them being there is that the sight of currently serving soldiers in a remembrance event acts as a link between the present and the past and reminds people that these things are still around. Another 5 killed yesterday I notice.

Moving away from the soldier presence, much of the other unhappiness about what is happening over the event is inevitable. People are being asked to do things as part of a 'captive audience' and that will always get people's backs up.

The Tynie remembrance event is not the only one in the UK so they cannot be blamed for the idea of remembrance at a football ground but it is the stuff particular to Hearts that makes the Tynie one more contentious than others IMO. There is an element of distrust, and a perception that elements of Hearts support and organisation are focusing too much on one group of individuals and not on the wider all-inclusive group that we should be remembering.

I can understand jambo pride about MacCrae's Battalion but find the preponderance of poppies and memorial symbols used on kickback as being a bit obsessive and I distrust some of their possible motives. This is in no way attempting to be critical of those involved in the formal activities of Contalmaison or the clock services who are entirely laudable, but is more to do with the way some appear to partition the deceased of conflict into a 'hearts-related' group and 'others'.

Hearts fans who cannot understand why people might be distrustful of their remembrance focus are probably not part of that partisan group and they need to stand back and see how some of the very visible focus on MacCrae's might be viewed. Many of those festooned with poppies on kickback do not have a good reputation on Hibsnet and so the worst will be assumed regarding their motives. It's then an easy step to tar a large number of jambos with the same brush - unfair, but human nature I'm afraid.

I can say as a soldier that all of the remembrance events I have attended, and that's a lot, remember the innocent victims of conflict as well as the military ones, no one group of victims is more deserving than others, and there is a mistrust that the Tynie focus might be too narrow.

Nevertheless, if you are of a mind to participate in the remembrance activity but distrust Hearts' actions, it might be as well to just accept that the majority of the hearts fans are not using it for one-upmanship but are just doing the same as you are.

I do not expect anyone intends to create a scene even if they disapprove, the embarrassment will probably happen when somebody comes up the steps singing away totally oblivious to the fact that the silence has started. I am sure some will be able to feel suitably sef-righteous and superior if that happens.

Ok, I've gone on a bit here so I apologise. I hope 50% of the soldiers on display enjoy the event and that we get it right up the jambos.

GGTTH

:notworthy:

Peevemor
04-11-2009, 11:30 AM
:top marks Fantastic post.