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crewetollhibee
29-10-2009, 12:52 AM
That shower are now criticising Mowbray for not wearing a poppy last night ! I was under the impression that Remembrance Day was celeberated at the Eleventh Hour, on the Eleventh Day, of the Eleventh Month ; NOT the 28th October when you happen to be hosting the winners of that particular skirmish. Having visited Ypres several times, I find the whole ****bo claims on WW1 tiresome and almost irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. There are nearly 60,000 names on the Menin Gate of Allied MIA alone, 25,000 Germans were buried at Langemaarck Cemetery (about an acre), and over 200 men from pre-dominantly the Leith area were killed in the infamous train collision at Quintinshill in 1915 on their way to the Front. Yes, we know your team made great sacrifices, but they weren't the only ones. Thoughts ?

joe breezy
29-10-2009, 05:51 AM
People have started wearing poppies earlier as they have started buying Xmas tat earlier. As you rightly point out 11th November or the closest Saturday is the only date one would expect a manager to be wearing one.
I think it's best to ignore any dafties over there trying to 'own' WW1.
Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows the war affected everyone in Britain, Germany and Ireland regardless of football team, religion etc.
Certainly wouldn't want to have the Glasgow situation in Edinburgh where so many Celtic fans are against poppies / rememberance as they see it as some kind of Rangers / unionist thing.

HIBERNIAN-0762
29-10-2009, 08:05 AM
I would never disrespect the dead especially the horrors of WW1 but I have to say that mob don't half go on about it at times, of course it was brave of a full ****** team to enlist and all lose their lives but as a previous poster said they see it as some kind of Protestant/loyalist thing which of course is aimed at us with our Irish/catholic connections and they seem to be waiting on us slipping up about it which of course will never happen.

lapsedhibee
29-10-2009, 08:20 AM
I would never disrespect the dead especially the horrors of WW1 but I have to say that mob don't half go on about it at times, of course it was brave of a full ****** team to enlist and all lose their lives but as a previous poster said they see it as some kind of Protestant/loyalist thing which of course is aimed at us with our Irish/catholic connections and they seem to be waiting on us slipping up about it which of course will never happen.

Half.

Betty Boop
29-10-2009, 08:24 AM
Poppy fascism!:duck:

Leithenhibby
29-10-2009, 08:26 AM
The difference with that mob is that they never studied the history of WW1, to come out with such narrow minded p!sh at such a sensitive time for some is totally unacceptable. I think we can honestly say no one won any war at any time, that I can see.

As they say "the only decoration is the one upon the grave"..:bitchy:

Bristolhibby
29-10-2009, 08:26 AM
I have been wearing my poppy since last week. Has nothing to do with loyalst/republican with me. Just want to show rememberance for everyone who has lost their lives in war.

People seem to forget that the British army was made up of a huge amount of loyalist and republican lads in the great war. The republicans thinking that they would stand a greater chance of home rule/independance if they fought for Britain. The loyalists obvoiusly because Britain was at war.

Both sides of the subsequent conflict lost many and that should not be trivialised by one upmanship at football matches.

Celtic should recognise the sacrafice that people from Ireland made and not bring politics into the football pitch.

C'mon Tony, rise above this. Wear the Poppy.

The poppy is not a Unionist symbol, ya dolts! (aimed at Celtic BTW).

J

EskbankHibby
29-10-2009, 08:27 AM
Tiresome, trying to turn Remembrance into a jambo uber-respect thing. Seems that if you don't spend the entirity of October and November clad in black, covered in poppy's and crying your not paying due respect.

That Michael Stewart piece the other day was just cringeworthy and it would seem it is they who have forgotten that, as individuals, we can all choose how we remember and pay our respects.

Leithenhibby
29-10-2009, 08:30 AM
Tiresome, trying to turn Remembrance into a jambo uber-respect thing. Seems that if you don't spend the entirity of October and November clad in black, covered in poppy's and crying your not paying due respect.

That Michael Stewart piece the other day was just cringeworthy and it would seem it is they who have forgotten that, as individuals, we can all choose how we remember and pay our respects.


:agree: well said..

Sylar
29-10-2009, 08:33 AM
It's possibly just me, but I find the entire topic of this thread in bad taste.

Remembrance should not be restricted to one minute of a calendar year. Remembrance is not an avenue to remember those who have passed in both the Great War and WWII, but a time to think about those who are currently overseas defending our interests.

I have nothing but respect for those from the HoMFC team who put down their boots, picked up their rifles and stood to arms for our country, as I would for any soldier who was in the position these young athletes were taken into.

Their political persuasions, footballing allegiances and other trivial factors shouldn't matter.

I've seen a lot of managers already wearing poppies, and kudos to them.

Wait until the pre-11th Saturday comes along though - Celtic will surely come under heavy scrutiny for opting to hold a minutes applause instead of a minutes' silence.

Betty Boop
29-10-2009, 08:41 AM
It's possibly just me, but I find the entire topic of this thread in bad taste.

Remembrance should not be restricted to one minute of a calendar year. Remembrance is not an avenue to remember those who have passed in both the Great War and WWII, but a time to think about those who are currently overseas defending our interests.

I have nothing but respect for those from the HoMFC team who put down their boots, picked up their rifles and stood to arms for our country, as I would for any soldier who was in the position these young athletes were taken into.

Their political persuasions, footballing allegiances and other trivial factors shouldn't matter.

I've seen a lot of managers already wearing poppies, and kudos to them.

Wait until the pre-11th Saturday comes along though - Celtic will surely come under heavy scrutiny for opting to hold a minutes applause instead of a minutes' silence.

Is it not up to Falkirk?

HIBERNIAN-0762
29-10-2009, 08:45 AM
Half.


I stand corrected, it just shows you that I really don't pay any attention to what the Homofc have to say on any subject :wink:

dangermouse
29-10-2009, 09:02 AM
Playing devil's advocate here, but I'm sure our very own manager was sporting a poppy on Saturday at Ibrox.

EskbankHibby
29-10-2009, 09:13 AM
Playing devil's advocate here, but I'm sure our very own manager was sporting a poppy on Saturday at Ibrox.

Good for him, that is his choice.

I am also wearing one today but i wasn't yesterday, i must be a better person today since i am being seen to remember.

What irks me is the suggestion that unless you have an overt display of remembrance you are in some way being disrespectful. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread my respect and remembrance is not limited to one day or one month in the year.

surreyhibbie
29-10-2009, 09:54 AM
Why do people care what that bunch of inbred halfwits across the City think? they really are a cretinous horde of w1nkers.

The story of McCrae's battalion is a great read, one of many unfortunately, but nothing to do with inter-football club rivalry. They should be justly proud that young men who happened to play for their team made the sacrifice along with many many others. Their deaths are no more or less tragic than every other one simply because they played football professionally.

They should get off their high horses and try and show a bit of dignity.

And wearing a poppy is personal choice.I have been wearing one since Saturday, when they officially went on sale here. But then, as Chairman of the local Royal British Legion Club, I get a lot of good-natured stick if I am caught without one! Costs me a fortune in donations too.:wink:

Sylar
29-10-2009, 10:06 AM
[/B]

Is it not up to Falkirk?

I'm not 100% sure to be honest - someone told me it had already been decided on account of Celtic worrying about their "republican" element of the support disgracing the club. The game is at Westfield then, I take it?

If so, I hope they opt for a minutes' silence, and what will be, will be!

The Green Goblin
29-10-2009, 10:14 AM
It's possibly just me, but I find the entire topic of this thread in bad taste.

Remembrance should not be restricted to one minute of a calendar year. Remembrance is not an avenue to remember those who have passed in both the Great War and WWII, but a time to think about those who are currently overseas defending our interests.

I have nothing but respect for those from the HoMFC team who put down their boots, picked up their rifles and stood to arms for our country, as I would for any soldier who was in the position these young athletes were taken into.

Their political persuasions, footballing allegiances and other trivial factors shouldn't matter.

I've seen a lot of managers already wearing poppies, and kudos to them.

Wait until the pre-11th Saturday comes along though - Celtic will surely come under heavy scrutiny for opting to hold a minutes applause instead of a minutes' silence.


With respect, I think you have misinterpreted the thread's purpose. The OP is unhappy about one football team, in this case, Hearts, behaving in a manner which suggests that 1. they have more 'ownership' over WW1 than other teams and 2. that because of '1.' they are using it as some kind of 'we're better than all of you' kind of thing, instead of keeping it dignified and all-inclusive.

I agree with the OP's sentiments - I think they are quite correct in their criticism of HMFC in this case, and I say that as someone who strongly believe in the Remembrance tradition. I find their increasing showboating of it distasteful and disrespectful tbh.

GG

Sylar
29-10-2009, 10:20 AM
With respect, I think you have misinterpreted the thread's purpose. The OP is unhappy about one football team, in this case, Hearts, behaving in a manner which suggests that 1. they have more 'ownership' over WW1 than other teams and 2. that because of '1.' they are using it as some kind of 'we're better than all of you' kind of thing, instead of keeping it dignified and all-inclusive.

I agree with the OP's sentiments - I think they are quite correct in their criticism of HMFC in this case, and I say that as someone who strongly believe in the Remembrance tradition. I find their increasing showboating of it distasteful and disrespectful tbh.

GG

If that is indeed the intention of the OP, then I will happily apologise and retract my comments, as that's not how I initially read it :agree:

Antifa Hibs
29-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Alot is getting made out of nothing with this poppy saga.

If someome wants to wear one, wear it with pride. If someone doesn't want to wear a poppy, don't wear it.

I've never worn a poppy in my life and probably never will.

Choice is the name of the game . . .

Dipped flake
29-10-2009, 10:57 AM
With respect, I think you have misinterpreted the thread's purpose. The OP is unhappy about one football team, in this case, Hearts, behaving in a manner which suggests that 1. they have more 'ownership' over WW1 than other teams and 2. that because of '1.' they are using it as some kind of 'we're better than all of you' kind of thing, instead of keeping it dignified and all-inclusive.

I agree with the OP's sentiments - I think they are quite correct in their criticism of HMFC in this case, and I say that as someone who strongly believe in the Remembrance tradition. I find their increasing showboating of it distasteful and disrespectful tbh.

GG
here we go again, another remembrance debate on hibs net about how obsessed Hearts fans are with remembrance day. Can anyone see the irony in all this.
As for the post on kickback; it was nothing to do with Hearts 'owning' WW1, it was all to do with the fact that the celtic manager did not wear a poppy as this would not be tolerated by the GFITW.

lapsedhibee
29-10-2009, 11:03 AM
here we go again, another remembrance debate on hibs net about how obsessed Hearts fans are with remembrance day. Can anyone see the irony in all this.
As for the post on kickback; it was nothing to do with Hearts 'owning' WW1, it was all to do with the fact that the celtic manager did not wear a poppy as this would not be tolerated by the GFITW.

Wonder why there was no thread on any other messageboard about that? You do not appear to see the irony in your post, attempting as it does to deny that Hertz fans are obsessed with remembrance day.

Bristolhibby
29-10-2009, 11:31 AM
here we go again, another remembrance debate on hibs net about how obsessed Hearts fans are with remembrance day. Can anyone see the irony in all this.
As for the post on kickback; it was nothing to do with Hearts 'owning' WW1, it was all to do with the fact that the celtic manager did not wear a poppy as this would not be tolerated by the GFITW.

I am agreeing with our resident jambo here.

Mogga wore a poppy when he was manager of Hibs and WBA.

Now all of a sudden the quite frankly f -u -c -k -e d up logic at Darkhead says he is not allowed to show his rememberance because if may be seen as a "pro-British" act.

Sorry byt Celtic are way out of line.

As somone said it is about choice. Here Mogga is being forced to have no choice due to the top down and bottom up bigotry emenating from Parkhead.

Never mind the fact that they "dont know their history" and many Irish from both sides of the Republican/Unionist debate and their own SCOTTISH fans perished and went through unspeakable horrors iduring the great war and continue to do so in current conflicts.

J

dangermouse
29-10-2009, 11:33 AM
Good for him, that is his choice.

I am also wearing one today but i wasn't yesterday, i must be a better person today since i am being seen to remember.

What irks me is the suggestion that unless you have an overt display of remembrance you are in some way being disrespectful. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread my respect and remembrance is not limited to one day or one month in the year.

As I said I was playing devils advocate. I'm not so sure it was down to individual choice as if you watched MOTD on Saturday all those interviewed post match were wearing them and I thought it was a bit early.

I'm not wearing one today so does that make you a better person than me? I'd doubt it. I will get one at some point but I wholeheartedly agree with your final paragraph.

bawheid
29-10-2009, 11:36 AM
I am agreeing with our resident jambo here.

Mogga wore a poppy when he was manager of Hibs and WBA.

Now all of a sudden the quite frankly f -u -c -k -e d up logic at Darkhead says he is not allowed to show his rememberance because if may be seen as a "pro-British" act.

Sorry byt Celtic are way out of line.

As somone said it is about choice. Here Mogga is being forced to have no choice due to the top down and bottom up bigotry emenating from Parkhead.

Never mind the fact that they "dont know their history" and many Irish from both sides of the Republican/Unionist debate and their own SCOTTISH fans perished and went through unspeakable horrors iduring the great war and continue to do so in current conflicts.

J

Maybe we could wait and see if Mowbray wears one during the matches against Kilmarnock or Falkirk before jumping up and down on him?

Betty Boop
29-10-2009, 11:45 AM
As I said I was playing devils advocate. I'm not so sure it was down to individual choice as if you watched MOTD on Saturday all those interviewed post match were wearing them and I thought it was a bit early.

I'm not wearing one today so does that make you a better person than me? I'd doubt it. I will get one at some point but I wholeheartedly agree with your final paragraph.

I think the BBC isists that all their presenters and newsreaders display a poppy while on air, which led to Jon Snow coining the phrase, "poppy fascism".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/nov/10/channel4.broadcasting

--------
29-10-2009, 11:50 AM
here we go again, another remembrance debate on hibs net about how obsessed Hearts fans are with remembrance day. Can anyone see the irony in all this.

As for the post on kickback; it was nothing to do with Hearts 'owning' WW1, it was all to do with the fact that the celtic manager did not wear a poppy as this would not be tolerated by the GFITW.



Mowbray didn't wear a poppy because the Celtic fans wouldn't tolerate it?

And how exactly do you geniuses know this? You have a Keechback surveillance wire to the inside of Mowbray's head?

Andy.1875
29-10-2009, 11:54 AM
Why are they getting so wound up about Mobray being 'disrespectful'.

Their team have this wonderful new top to wear as a mark of respect, so why weren't they wearing it.

Surely double standards.

Bristolhibby
29-10-2009, 11:58 AM
Mowbray didn't wear a poppy because the Celtic fans wouldn't tolerate it?

And how exactly do you geniuses know this? You have a Keechback surveillance wire to the inside of Mowbray's head?

Sympathies of this sort of thing mean Mogga will be "encouraged" not to wear a poppy.

http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/36365

J

Disc O'Dave
29-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Why are they getting so wound up about Mobray being 'disrespectful'.

Their team have this wonderful new top to wear as a mark of respect, so why weren't they wearing it.

Surely double standards.

:tsk tsk:

No, that's only for derby games - to make them more poignant.

15 million dead across many nations, and it's ALL about Hearts :whistle:

Dashing Bob S
29-10-2009, 12:45 PM
If the current team put down their boots and went to Afghanistan, i'd be impressed, but otherwise i'll continue to see this as unsavoury and opportunistic. I've personally never wore a poppy since i've been a civilian. This is not to disrespect the war dead.

1) I dislike the way it's been appropriated by the same establishment who sent millions of working-class Britons to their certain death in the name of profits in WW1;

2) It looks rather shabby on my expensive clothes and spoils the look.

BravestHibs
29-10-2009, 12:48 PM
If the current team put down their boots and went to Afghanistan, i'd be impressed, but otherwise i'll continue to see this as unsavoury and opportunistic. I've personally never wore a poppy since i've been a civilian. This is not to disrespect the war dead.

1) I dislike the way it's been appropriated by the same establishment who sent millions of working-class Britons to their certain death in the name of profits in WW1;

2) It looks rather shabby on my expensive clothes and spoils the look.

I actually lol'd when I read that.

basehibby
29-10-2009, 01:06 PM
here we go again, another remembrance debate on hibs net about how obsessed Hearts fans are with remembrance day. Can anyone see the irony in all this.
As for the post on kickback; it was nothing to do with Hearts 'owning' WW1, it was all to do with the fact that the celtic manager did not wear a poppy as this would not be tolerated by the GFITW.

....which is totally jumping the gun in the first place. I got a poppy the other week but you'll only see it on me if I'm wearing the same jacket as when I bought it.
It's almost 2 weeks til Rememberance Sunday and to assume that Mowbray is somehow showing disrespect to the whole thing by not wearing one night and day is nonsense IMO.

The fact that some of the Smellies have got issues with it is another matter, but to drag Mowbray into it on some half-arsed assumption just shows how obsessive your lot have become.

Cabbage East
29-10-2009, 01:09 PM
here we go again, another remembrance debate on hibs net about how obsessed Hearts fans are with remembrance day. Can anyone see the irony in all this.
As for the post on kickback; it was nothing to do with Hearts 'owning' WW1, it was all to do with the fact that the celtic manager did not wear a poppy as this would not be tolerated by the GFITW.

Here we go again indeed.

heretoday
29-10-2009, 01:17 PM
I think the BBC isists that all their presenters and newsreaders display a poppy while on air, which led to Jon Snow coining the phrase, "poppy fascism".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/nov/10/channel4.broadcasting

I wish the BBC would get more of their presenters to put a tie on. Some of them look like they've just been let out of the cells early doors.

Jonnyboy
29-10-2009, 01:20 PM
There's a common theme here regarding moronic behaviour

Celtc fans boo when the fallen are being remembered

Rangers fans sing the famine song

The link?

Both sides fail to understand that Irishmen were deeply affected by both. In other words it wasn't just proddy loyalists who lost their lives in battle and it wasn't just republican left footers that died in the famine.

As to the Hearts stance, I applaud any serious debate but treat the mindless twaddle spouted on kickback for what it is.

BravestHibs
29-10-2009, 01:21 PM
I wish the BBC would get more of their presenters to put a tie on. "Some of them look like they've just been let out of the cells" (Armando Iannucci) early doors.

I put the quotation marks that you missed out and also attributed your quote to its author for you.

Green_one
29-10-2009, 01:24 PM
Sorry but some guys over at Celtic have an agenda we do not like. What a surprise. Frankly, I think they are wired to the moon. How you can link a poppy used for almost 100 years to the Iraq war confuses me. However, because I believe they are not worth listening too I simply ignore them.

IF Mowbray has failed to wear a poppy because of those dafties then more fool him. But its too easy to jump to that conclusion.

I wear a poppy. No-one can stop me doing so and what some bunch of morons believe is irrelevant. Maybe Hearts need to realise that.

Men died. Not Hearts fan or Hibs fans but sons , brothers, fathers etc. We honour them. The symbols are not in themselves important. Nor are the colours in their scarfs.

Mixu's Hatrick
29-10-2009, 01:54 PM
We're still in October...............I always thought that the norm was to wear the poppy (if you so decide) during the month of November up to Remembrance Day.....Is it not a case of people selling them early to merely generate as much cash as they can for worthwhile charities knowing fine well that you'll probably end up buying 2 or 3 due to them getting ruined by wear and tear.....? So on that note, apart from not actually giving a rodent's posterior about the East End Gypsies, he is within his rights not to have one on....Judge him in the next 2 weeks, if people care that much about it...

Big Frank
29-10-2009, 01:57 PM
Hertz and their fans really need to calm doon at this time of year.

Its ugly.


Celtc are a disgrace to Scotland.

crewetollhibee
29-10-2009, 02:36 PM
If that is indeed the intention of the OP, then I will happily apologise and retract my comments, as that's not how I initially read it :agree:
That indeed was my intention. 5 years ago Rememberance Day was not recalled by HMFC other than the laying of wreaths at the Haymarket memorial. Since about then, they have used it to their own ends.They now see any perceived slight towards that day as a insult to them. Even on a night when they beat Celtic away, the fact that Mowbray wasn't wearing a poppy caught some of their horde's attention, and off they go !!

ginger_rice
29-10-2009, 06:33 PM
We're still in October...............I always thought that the norm was to wear the poppy (if you so decide) during the month of November up to Remembrance Day.

Poppies go on sale from the day of the launch of the poppy appeal, which in Scotland was last week, somewhere in the borders IIRC

It is ok to wear a poppy should you choose to from that day until midnight on the 11th November.

ginger_rice
29-10-2009, 06:49 PM
We now appear to have this same debate in one form or another every year, with as sickening regularity as we used to have flag debates!

Every year some Yams (and now it appears their team) go OTT to point out the sacrifice made by some members of their club during WW1

I think that there is some need to re-education.

My future sister in-law a season ticket holder in the PBS, tried to give me a hard time the other day there about this whole thing asking "and where were the Hi-bees when the country needed them" I simply replied that this particular Hi-Bee fought in the Falklands war! I also pointed out that McCrae wouldn't allow married men into his battalion and that at that time the Hibs players being in the main Irish catholics and married men, joined other units, I also pointed out that our club captain was drowned at the Battle of Jutland in 1915, and that although difficult to put numbers on it Quintishill probably cost many Hi_bees lives too.

As someone who is heavily involved in organising remembrance services and parades, I have no problem with HMFC remembering the 16th Royal Scots, but lets keep this to the appropriate place at the appropriate time.

I have absolutely no problem with them raising money for ex-service charities either,ie the poppy shirt, but perhaps this would have been better done in conjunction with Hibs?

I also see absolutely no need for a minutes silence at football grounds, football is almost never played either at 1100 on the 11th November or at 1100 on Remembrance Sunday, and I made my thoughts plain on this matter to the Yams match day Health and safety advisor yesterday.

Jonnyboy
29-10-2009, 06:54 PM
We now appear to have this same debate in one form or another every year, with as sickening regularity as we used to have flag debates!

Every year some Yams (and now it appears their team) go OTT to point out the sacrifice made by some members of their club during WW1

I think that there is some need to re-education.

My future sister in-law a season ticket holder in the PBS, tried to give me a hard time the other day there about this whole thing asking "and where were the Hi-bees when the country needed them" I simply replied that this particular Hi-Bee fought in the Falklands war! I also pointed out that McCrae wouldn't allow married men into his battalion and that at that time the Hibs players being in the main Irish catholics and married men, joined other units, I also pointed out that our club captain was drowned at the Battle of Jutland in 1915, and that although difficult to put numbers on it Quintishill probably cost many Hi_bees lives too.

As someone who is heavily involved in organising remembrance services and parades, I have no problem with HMFC remembering the 16th Royal Scots, but lets keep this to the appropriate place at the appropriate time.

I have absolutely no problem with them raising money for ex-service charities either,ie the poppy shirt, but perhaps this would have been better done in conjunction with Hibs?

I also see absolutely no need for a minutes silence at football grounds, football is almost never played either at 1100 on the 11th November or at 1100 on Remembrance Sunday, and I made my thoughts plain on this matter to the Yams match day Health and safety advisor yesterday.

Well put gr - says it all :agree:

ginger_rice
29-10-2009, 06:54 PM
If the current team put down their boots and went to Afghanistan, i'd be impressed,

Aye but by nationality very few of their team would be allowed in the Royal Scots now :wink:


And yes I know they are now the Royal Scots Borderers

CyberSauzee
29-10-2009, 08:09 PM
Could Mowbray's poppy have fallen out? :dunno:

Hibhibhooray
29-10-2009, 08:14 PM
Could Mowbray's poppy have fallen out? :dunno:

Have to say they don't make em like they did..........

A wee extract from wiki...

Remembrance Day – also known as Poppy Day, Armistice Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_Day) (the event it commemorates) or Veterans Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Day) – is a day to commemorate the sacrifices of members of the armed forces and of civilians in times of war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War), specifically since the First World War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I). It is observed on 11 November (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_11) to recall the end of World War I on that date in 1918. (Major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 with the German signing of the Armistice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_with_Germany_(Compi%C3%A8gne)).)

Can we just drop it now....

FranckSuzy
29-10-2009, 08:31 PM
Sorry but some guys over at Celtic have an agenda we do not like. What a surprise. Frankly, I think they are wired to the moon. How you can link a poppy used for almost 100 years to the Iraq war confuses me. However, because I believe they are not worth listening too I simply ignore them.

IF Mowbray has failed to wear a poppy because of those dafties then more fool him. But its too easy to jump to that conclusion.

I wear a poppy. No-one can stop me doing so and what some bunch of morons believe is irrelevant. Maybe Hearts need to realise that.

Men died. Not Hearts fan or Hibs fans but sons , brothers, fathers etc. We honour them. The symbols are not in themselves important. Nor are the colours in their scarfs.

:top marks

heretoday
29-10-2009, 08:54 PM
I put the quotation marks that you missed out and also attributed your quote to its author for you.

Thanks very much. Great minds think alike obviously! He's a cool cat.

Vini1875
29-10-2009, 09:10 PM
When did we start having a minutes silence at football grounds? It seems to me to be a fairly recent thing. I have to suspect that this spread of forced remembrance has much more to do with the government fear that in modern times people do not back their war mongering around the globe.

I am not talking about the traditional ceremonies at various monuments at 11 on the 11th. I am talking about the spread of the poppy appeals and forced silences. I would bet that there was a drop off in sales and subsequent drop off in interest in past wars. Not only that, there has been a drop off in recruitment to the British army, which has to cause the government some concern. So they are pushing more and more the poppy appeal.

They refuse to face the facts in modern Britain most people were not convinced by their argument for the most recent wars and I would bet that if they held a vote about having troops in Iraq and Afghanistan they would lose.

Brizo
29-10-2009, 09:14 PM
That indeed was my intention. 5 years ago Rememberance Day was not recalled by HMFC other than the laying of wreaths at the Haymarket memorial. Since about then, they have used it to their own ends.They now see any perceived slight towards that day as a insult to them. Even on a night when they beat Celtic away, the fact that Mowbray wasn't wearing a poppy caught some of their horde's attention, and off they go !!

:agree:

Why are they now giving it such increased importance ? Yes the McCraes book has heightened awareness and yes theres conflicts ongoing but there was back in the 80s ie Falklands and NI when the Haymarket Rememberence observation was very low key and dignified.

Its no coincidence imo that the increased importance Hertz are giving to Rememberance Day coincides with the club losing its Scottish identity ... foreign owners, a foreign manager and backroom staff and predominately foreign playing staff.

Vlad will know from his upbringing that the way to unite a disenchanted population when everythings going teets up is to divert their attentions by getting them to hark back to some glorious military past ... think the military parades in front of the Kremlin. While their clubs imploding the elevation of the Rememberance Day from low key dignified commemoration to event status gives the Hertz support something local and Scottish to identify with. It also unfortunately panders to the Section N element. Their Hall of Fames another Vlad diversion tactic by getting them to focus on the grate players of the past rather than the p@sh theyre currently watching.

Its all smoke and mirrors imo and the fact that the manipulations being done on the back of those who made the ultimate sacrifice is somethiing I find very distasteful.

Makaveli
29-10-2009, 09:32 PM
When did we start having a minutes silence at football grounds? It seems to me to be a fairly recent thing. I have to suspect that this spread of forced remembrance has much more to do with the government fear that in modern times people do not back their war mongering around the globe.

I am not talking about the traditional ceremonies at various monuments at 11 on the 11th. I am talking about the spread of the poppy appeals and forced silences. I would bet that there was a drop off in sales and subsequent drop off in interest in past wars. Not only that, there has been a drop off in recruitment to the British army, which has to cause the government some concern. So they are pushing more and more the poppy appeal.

They refuse to face the facts in modern Britain most people were not convinced by their argument for the most recent wars and I would bet that if they held a vote about having troops in Iraq and Afghanistan they would lose.

It surely is.

There is nothing wrong (everything right) with remembering the fallen, but to literally force it upon people - whether it be through silence at a sporting event or having to wear a poppy at the BBC - is more than a bit dodgy IMO.

I don't agree that the Poppy Appeal itself is run for any purpose other than genuine respect. But this recent phenomena of forced remembrance has come from the top, neatly coinciding with the latest little batch of neo-imperialist adventures.

I also find HoM.FC's point-scoring more than sickening.

jakedance
29-10-2009, 09:43 PM
It's so bloody tiresome this thing. Anyone who doesn't respect rememberance day is an eejit And generally ignorant about what it's all about. The way it's been dragged into football is really distasteful, if you ask me. It should be a moment of quiet reflection and respect for the dead. A minute before a derby is neither the time nor the place.

It also really gets on my tits when people are offended by someone not caring about what they care about. It comes down to whether you know your history or not and I understand that there are some people that just don't give a ****. I do, incidentally.

Well said Mr Ginger Rice, I agree with everything you've said there.

Hibercelona
29-10-2009, 09:50 PM
It's so bloody tiresome this thing. Anyone who doesn't respect rememberance day is an eejit And generally ignorant about what it's all about. The way it's been dragged into football is really distasteful, if you ask me. It should be a moment of quiet reflection and respect for the dead. A minute before a derby is neither the time nor the place.

It also really gets on my tits when people are offended by someone not caring about what they care about. It comes down to whether you know your history or not and I understand that there are some people that just don't give a ****. I do, incidentally.

Well said Mr Ginger Rice, I agree with everything you've said there.

:top marks

Poppy or not... let them make their own minds up.

A minute's silence before a roaring football game is complete and utter nonsense IMO.

Peevemor
29-10-2009, 09:52 PM
It's so bloody tiresome this thing. Anyone who doesn't respect rememberance day is an eejit And generally ignorant about what it's all about. The way it's been dragged into football is really distasteful, if you ask me. It should be a moment of quiet reflection and respect for the dead. A minute before a derby is neither the time nor the place.

It also really gets on my tits when people are offended by someone not caring about what they care about. It comes down to whether you know your history or not and I understand that there are some people that just don't give a ****. I do, incidentally.

Well said Mr Ginger Rice, I agree with everything you've said there.

:top marks It certainly shouldn't be used for oneupmanship.

proud_and_green
29-10-2009, 10:44 PM
Poppies go on sale from the day of the launch of the poppy appeal, which in Scotland was last week, somewhere in the borders IIRC

It is ok to wear a poppy should you choose to from that day until midnight on the 11th November.

Whilst this is indeed true that the launch is earlier and earlier. It always used to be the norm for poppies to be worn as from 1st November and in the army it was generally only worn from the beginning of the week preceding Remembrance Sunday.

I have always held the 1st November line.

The Green Goblin
29-10-2009, 10:48 PM
here we go again, another remembrance debate on hibs net about how obsessed Hearts fans are with remembrance day. Can anyone see the irony in all this.
As for the post on kickback; it was nothing to do with Hearts 'owning' WW1, it was all to do with the fact that the celtic manager did not wear a poppy as this would not be tolerated by the GFITW.

...which brings us neatly back to square 1. We`re not even in November yet and Hearts fans are ranting coz Mowbray wasn`t wearing a poppy. Hello? I can see the irony in this, but I`m not sure that you can.

This (frankly pathetic) reaction on Kickback has come about because people have taken this as a slight against Hearts. I stand by my views on this.

There are a number of Hearts fans who have increasingly adopted a `holier-than-thou` attitude towards WW1 and its Remembrance and used it as an excuse for one-upmanship and `moral outrage` (to quote an interesting debate going on in one of the other forums on here). This stuff with Mowbray is just one such ridiculous example.

My great-grandfather went to WW1 and he saw scarcely imaginable horrors on the Somme, Ypres and Paschendale. He survived and his daughter (my gran) in time was able to live in a house and bring up my own dad thanks only to assistance accorded to them through the poppy appeal. I identify the poppy and Remembrance with WW1. I have one of those special edition Hibs shirts with the poppy on it and I wear that out of respect to my great-grandad, who, incidentally was a Hearts fan.

The way in which some Hearts fans seem to be appropriating and connecting the MacCrae`s story to the modern Hearts team rather than keeping it within its historical context, and using it as some kind of pawn in a game of `look at us and how totally unapproachably good we are`, is frankly a disgrace of the worst kind. They should know better.

GG

sahib
30-10-2009, 08:21 AM
The poppy debate is turning very sinister. The right wing in this country seem to be hijacking it,as has happened to the union flag. If wearing one becomes compulsory for certain people then we may as well have the swastika.

bighairyfaeleith
30-10-2009, 08:41 AM
I have to say I never bother wearing a poppy, I'll chuck a couple of quid in a tin but thats about it. I see lots of people walking about the streets not wearing them as well.

Doesn't mean we don't care or appreciate what everyone done for us back then, I do but as far as I'm aware I have no particular links to the cause (probably through my ignorance to my family history) so I just never think about it.

Trouble is the more one team tries to associate themselves with something like this the more it annoys everyone else and it will I think, sadly, have a negative impact on the cause. Hearts should rein themselves in and agree to a measured remembrance in line with the rest of the spl. If they really want to do more then get all the clubs to do more at the same time and make a real difference rather than just scoring some petty points before a derby.

heretoday
30-10-2009, 11:30 AM
The poppy debate is turning very sinister. The right wing in this country seem to be hijacking it,as has happened to the union flag. If wearing one becomes compulsory for certain people then we may as well have the swastika.

If by right wing you include Gordon Brown and the government I'd agree but I don't think that's true.

It's really a kind of hysteria and it's largely whipped up by the media who get a lot of mileage out of programmes relating to the war.

lapsedhibee
30-10-2009, 12:33 PM
Just saw this on wedidntwinthewarsinglehandedlytherewere13ofus.co.u k. It's apparently an argument to show that this year's commemorative strip isn't in any way distasteful or over the top:



"Hearts wore the names of the 7 players who gave the ultimate sacrifice on their sleeves 2 years ago against Aberdeen. Was that a 'more' commemorative strip?"

I don't remember reading about that at the time, but it certainly backs up the view of some hobos that HOMFC have been milking things for some years now.