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Delboy4
28-10-2009, 01:39 PM
Do you think that Yogi regrets handing Chris Hogg the captaincy?

I think he does - Ok he has dropped him once already but can he keep on doing that to his captain?

He got moved to RB against the Huns not just because Wotherspoon was toiling BUT because he was toiling against Boyd. I think Yogi put him RB rather than take HIM off - he could have easily put Murray over to RB when Stevenson came on.

Hogg has to get a grip with his game or he will be on the bench more than on the park...

blackpoolhibs
28-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Watch they way he is bullied each and every week, its criminal. And the way he gets turned in the box so easily is very worrying. He needs replacing imho ASAP, unless he can play right back?

Dashing Bob S
28-10-2009, 01:54 PM
Yes, I think GH looked a decent 'second banana' when playing alongside a big, powerful, dominant (but limited in footballing sense) centre-half like Jones. Jones also liked to defend deep which meant that Hogg wasn't exposed so much.

I don't think he's ever a captain, but I doubt Yogi 'regrets' making this decision as you can only suck it and see, and if it doesn't work, move on. I suspect that Hogg will either improve, or lose the captaincy. GH is obviously a hard-working pro who has the respect of his colleagues, so it wasn't a bad decision on the face of it.

As things stand, he has a lot to thank McBride for in terms of the support/coverage he's been given. I do, however, think Hogg has both the ability and the application to come good again.

Owain_1987
28-10-2009, 02:09 PM
The thing is at the time who else could he give it to? He could not give it to Murray as he as had his chance and the rest who could get it are all new singings. I think McBride would make a good captain but could not of known that at the beginning of the season.

Andy74
28-10-2009, 03:08 PM
From what I can gather he's a good captain in terms of his role at the club and the dressing room so even if he's not on top form I'm sure there's no regrets about him being club captain.

WindyMiller
28-10-2009, 03:22 PM
He's had a very poor start to the season and IMO opinion is a liability at CH.
I'd try him at RB and tell him to forget the 30/40 yard cross-field passes

RIP
28-10-2009, 03:22 PM
Sorry DB - yer poll is clear but the responses are cloudy. Do a large minority REALLY believe Yogi regrets a decision?

Of course not - our gaffer isn't the type to doubt himself

Yet your readers are maybe thinking the Question is asking "Do you think that Yogi SHOULD regret handing Chris Hogg the captaincy?"

Maybe he should but I bet he doesn't

OtterHibee
28-10-2009, 04:00 PM
For those who have voted 'yes' in the poll, what exactly has he done wrong so far as captain?

Yes, I can agree that some of his performances this season haven't been to his usual standard - and I think he knows that - however his overall abilities as a football player have nothing whatsoever to do with why he was appointed the captain of the football club.

That was more down to his leadership skills; his consummate professionalism; the way he conducts himself as an individual and as a football player; his nature around teammates (especially younger squad members), club staff and supporters; his ability to represent the club and portray Hibernian FC in a positive manner. Need I go on.

I remember listening to an interview with Mowbray a couple of months ago regarding Stephen McManus at Celtic, and he made the comment that while McManus is the rightful captain of the club, that doesn't necessarily mean he will always be included in and thus skipper the side on a matchday. I think that's a fair point. If the captain is not performing as required over a period of several games, then as with any player, their place in the side should be questioned. If it is to the ultimate benefit of the team, then yes, the player should probably be dropped. That does not make that player a poor captain, nor should there be any speculation as to whether he should be stripped of the armband purely off the back of a few under-par performances - especially when that player has more than proven himself at this level, and has arguably been the club's POTY in previous seasons. That's just pure nonsense.

Hughes has made the high regard in which he holds his captain more than clear, and he's evidently an intelligent, honest and realistic manager, so although I obviously can't speak for him, I think it would be fair to say he won't be having many (if indeed any) doubts as to whether his decision was the correct one.

Ian Murray seemed to be the popular choice amongst the fans, yet in both games against St Johnstone (especially in the cup game) did very little in the way of encouraging and directing his teammates. Don't get me wrong I think Murray is a cracking player, but he's no better a leader and no more worthy of the captaincy than Chris Hogg.

Performance-wise, Hoggy will undoubtedly improve. He was excellent against Motherwell and Dundee United, and a candidate for MOTM after his first half against Kilmarnock (during which time he was as vocal as he's ever been) although tailed off during the 2nd half a bit (not "mince" by any stretch). He doesn't need fans making him a scapegoat, nor does any player, and doesn't deserve half the abuse he's received both on here and from the stands. He has not become a 'poor' player overnight, and I think some people need to remember that. A bit support really wouldn't go amiss.

Some of the threads on here concerning CH since the start of the season have been way over the top, with several posts therein completely uncalled for. Something that irritates me is the need for the same culprits (don't think I need to name names, do I?) to post their same negative points in every single thread about him without fail. Why, when you have already expressed your opinions so vehemently in the past, do you feel you have to keep reiterating them to the point of it becoming tiring?

A post that alarmed me involved one of this group of posters stating that he was "trying his hardest to remain impartial" over Hogg's performances. Sorry if I'm missing something here, but why on earth should a Hibs supporter ever have to make an effort to comment impartially on one of our players? I know people have their strong opinions, and I fully respect that, but surely it's not difficult to retain a sense of perspective where a member of our team is involved? Surely most folk should be able to go to games with an open mind, rather than having clear bias and preconceived ideas about how certain players of the team as a whole will perform, and there after refusing to give credit where it's due for whatever reason. From what I can see, there's too many around who are willing to put players down all too easily, appoint scapegoats and jump on bandwagons. I don't think it's helpful by any means. Is it just me :dunno:

Anyway, back to topic. Chris is a very able central defender, is committed to continually working to improve, and is and has always been a very worthy captain of our good club. Let's give him a bit of deserved backing now shall we.

lEXO
28-10-2009, 04:11 PM
I voted no.I think Yogi knows what makes a good captain, and because he dropped him does,nt mean he does,nt rate him.I dont think he,s had a great start to the season, but i,m sure he will come good.I remember Jones getting the same stick last year, and he went on to have a great season for us.Time will tell eh.

blackpoolhibs
28-10-2009, 04:36 PM
For those who have voted 'yes' in the poll, what exactly has he done wrong so far as captain?

Yes, I can agree that some of his performances this season haven't been to his usual standard - and I think he knows that - however his overall abilities as a football player have nothing whatsoever to do with why he was appointed the captain of the football club.

That was more down to his leadership skills; his consummate professionalism; the way he conducts himself as an individual and as a football player; his nature around teammates (especially younger squad members), club staff and supporters; his ability to represent the club and portray Hibernian FC in a positive manner. Need I go on.

I remember listening to an interview with Mowbray a couple of months ago regarding Stephen McManus at Celtic, and he made the comment that while McManus is the rightful captain of the club, that doesn't necessarily mean he will always be included in and thus skipper the side on a matchday. I think that's a fair point. If the captain is not performing as required over a period of several games, then as with any player, their place in the side should be questioned. If it is to the ultimate benefit of the team, then yes, the player should probably be dropped. That does not make that player a poor captain, nor should there be any speculation as to whether he should be stripped of the armband purely off the back of a few under-par performances - especially when that player has more than proven himself at this level, and has arguably been the club's POTY in previous seasons. That's just pure nonsense.

Hughes has made the high regard in which he holds his captain more than clear, and he's evidently an intelligent, honest and realistic manager, so although I obviously can't speak for him, I think it would be fair to say he won't be having many (if indeed any) doubts as to whether his decision was the correct one.

Ian Murray seemed to be the popular choice amongst the fans, yet in both games against St Johnstone (especially in the cup game) did very little in the way of encouraging and directing his teammates. Don't get me wrong I think Murray is a cracking player, but he's no better a leader and no more worthy of the captaincy than Chris Hogg.

Performance-wise, Hoggy will undoubtedly improve. He was excellent against Motherwell and Dundee United, and a candidate for MOTM after his first half against Kilmarnock (during which time he was as vocal as he's ever been) although tailed off during the 2nd half a bit (not "mince" by any stretch). He doesn't need fans making him a scapegoat, nor does any player, and doesn't deserve half the abuse he's received both on here and from the stands. He has not become a 'poor' player overnight, and I think some people need to remember that. A bit support really wouldn't go amiss.

Some of the threads on here concerning CH since the start of the season have been way over the top, with several posts therein completely uncalled for. Something that irritates me is the need for the same culprits (don't think I need to name names, do I?) to post their same negative points in every single thread about him without fail. Why, when you have already expressed your opinions so vehemently in the past, do you feel you have to keep reiterating them to the point of it becoming tiring?

A post that alarmed me involved one of this group of posters stating that he was "trying his hardest to remain impartial" over Hogg's performances. Sorry if I'm missing something here, but why on earth should a Hibs supporter ever have to make an effort to comment impartially on one of our players? I know people have their strong opinions, and I fully respect that, but surely it's not difficult to retain a sense of perspective where a member of our team is involved? Surely most folk should be able to go to games with an open mind, rather than having clear bias and preconceived ideas about how certain players of the team as a whole will perform, and there after refusing to give credit where it's due for whatever reason. From what I can see, there's too many around who are willing to put players down all too easily, appoint scapegoats and jump on bandwagons. I don't think it's helpful by any means. Is it just me :dunno:

Anyway, back to topic. Chris is a very able central defender, is committed to continually working to improve, and is and has always been a very worthy captain of our good club. Let's give him a bit of deserved backing now shall we.

I voted yes, my captain would be the driving force in the team, the player the others look up to when things are not going our way. If they look at hogg, all they see is an error strewn display, from a player who gives zero inspiration. Never a captain in a million years.

HibbyAndy
28-10-2009, 05:18 PM
I like CH..not a great player but a very good player for Hibs, although this season he's not looked his best.

Bamba away in January with the Ivory coast i think CH is a must to bring in,

Nae one ken any info regarding Darren Barr :dunno:

500miles
28-10-2009, 05:22 PM
I think people need to remember that when Jones when through his poor spell, it was Chris Hogg who was slapped with the tag "Mr Consistancy". He's capable of good things, and I reckon that if anyone can help him reclaim that title, it's Yogi.

col02
28-10-2009, 05:25 PM
We win as a team and lose as a team is that not enough for some people? The singling out of individuals is something that some sections of Hibs supporters seem to excel in and at times even appear to take delight in doing so! Hogg is captain and if Hughes picks him every week it is more than enough for me that he is doing his job to the standard asked of him by the manager.

Andy74
28-10-2009, 05:25 PM
I like CH..not a great player but a very good player for Hibs, although this season he's not looked his best.

Bamba away in January with the Ivory coast i think CH is a must to bring in,

Nae one ken any info regarding Darren Barr :dunno:

Would Barr really want to come and be Russell Anderson's deputy? :greengrin

HibbyAndy
28-10-2009, 05:48 PM
Would Barr really want to come and be Russell Anderson's deputy? :greengrin

Them two would be no bad together :thumbsup:

KiddA
28-10-2009, 05:58 PM
I voted yes, my captain would be the driving force in the team, the player the others look up to when things are not going our way. If they look at hogg, all they see is an error strewn display, from a player who gives zero inspiration. Never a captain in a million years.

Could not agree more, Hogg should not be captain. He has had a very poor season so far and is hardly leading by example with his average displays.

Hibs Class
28-10-2009, 07:29 PM
This topic came up at the AGM. As best as I can recall Yogi outlined what he looked for in a captain and said he felt that Hogg ticked the boxes, whilst also acknowledging Murray's strengths as vice captain. Hughes believes that being captain involves far more than wearing the armband and being first name on the team sheet, and he gave a complete endorsement of Hogg's attributes for the role, which re-affirmed for me that Hogg is the right man for the job.

OtterHibee
28-10-2009, 07:43 PM
I voted yes, my captain would be the driving force in the team, the player the others look up to when things are not going our way. If they look at hogg, all they see is an error strewn display, from a player who gives zero inspiration. Never a captain in a million years.

Players seek inspiration from different sources. I don't know about you BH, but I'd suggest that a true professional who leads their life impeccably, is committed to getting the best out of himself and others, sets high standards for himself and is an absolute gentleman to all he meets could certainly be regarded as an inspirational figure, and someone who younger players in particular could look up to. In the same regard, we are fortunate enough to have players in the squad who have played with top clubs - Liam Miller, for example - who's experience could likewise serve as inspiration, but admiration for someone is not always sought from where they've been, what they've achieved, and how talented they are. There are other factors that have to be considered.

Players interviewed about Jones always described him as an "inspirational captain", yet that didn't always show on the pitch. You could apply that to Hogg as well, who likewise is very well thought of by his teammates. To say he 'gives zero inspiration' is pretty far fetched.

'Error strewn display' suggests he's making mistakes constantly throughout his games, which is a gross exaggeration and a long way from the truth. For the past few years, yes he's made the odd mistake here and there, he is bound to, yet he's been our most consistently good player throughout all that. His form this season has been up and down so far, but not as bad as some would have you believe. If players are looking at Hogg, what they will see is a player who is giving it everything he's got, all game, every game. Now unless we have an unbelievably critical and judgemental bunch of players, they will all fully understand through personal experience loss of form and making mistakes, and will sympathise in that things are not going to work for you every time. None of them are infallible. Players like Bamba, Riordan, Stokes, Zemmama, have all gone though periods where they have been far from their best yet none are singled out or castigated to anywhere near the same extent as Hogg. Perhaps that's because their faces fit; they are fans favourites. I don't believe any player should be lambasted, especially whilst they are off form, but rather supported through it. However you can't have one rule for one player and another from someone else. But then fans are fickle, and much too critical at times, and I suppose there is not much that can be done about that.

Martin
28-10-2009, 09:16 PM
Do you think that Yogi regrets handing Chris Hogg the captaincy?

I think he does - Ok he has dropped him once already but can he keep on doing that to his captain?

He got moved to RB against the Huns not just because Wotherspoon was toiling BUT because he was toiling against Boyd. I think Yogi put him RB rather than take HIM off - he could have easily put Murray over to RB when Stevenson came on.

Hogg has to get a grip with his game or he will be on the bench more than on the park...

Why don't you ask him.....

Mikeystewart
29-10-2009, 08:48 AM
For those who have voted 'yes' in the poll, what exactly has he done wrong so far as captain?

Yes, I can agree that some of his performances this season haven't been to his usual standard - and I think he knows that - however his overall abilities as a football player have nothing whatsoever to do with why he was appointed the captain of the football club.

That was more down to his leadership skills; his consummate professionalism; the way he conducts himself as an individual and as a football player; his nature around teammates (especially younger squad members), club staff and supporters; his ability to represent the club and portray Hibernian FC in a positive manner. Need I go on.

I remember listening to an interview with Mowbray a couple of months ago regarding Stephen McManus at Celtic, and he made the comment that while McManus is the rightful captain of the club, that doesn't necessarily mean he will always be included in and thus skipper the side on a matchday. I think that's a fair point. If the captain is not performing as required over a period of several games, then as with any player, their place in the side should be questioned. If it is to the ultimate benefit of the team, then yes, the player should probably be dropped. That does not make that player a poor captain, nor should there be any speculation as to whether he should be stripped of the armband purely off the back of a few under-par performances - especially when that player has more than proven himself at this level, and has arguably been the club's POTY in previous seasons. That's just pure nonsense.

Hughes has made the high regard in which he holds his captain more than clear, and he's evidently an intelligent, honest and realistic manager, so although I obviously can't speak for him, I think it would be fair to say he won't be having many (if indeed any) doubts as to whether his decision was the correct one.

Ian Murray seemed to be the popular choice amongst the fans, yet in both games against St Johnstone (especially in the cup game) did very little in the way of encouraging and directing his teammates. Don't get me wrong I think Murray is a cracking player, but he's no better a leader and no more worthy of the captaincy than Chris Hogg.

Performance-wise, Hoggy will undoubtedly improve. He was excellent against Motherwell and Dundee United, and a candidate for MOTM after his first half against Kilmarnock (during which time he was as vocal as he's ever been) although tailed off during the 2nd half a bit (not "mince" by any stretch). He doesn't need fans making him a scapegoat, nor does any player, and doesn't deserve half the abuse he's received both on here and from the stands. He has not become a 'poor' player overnight, and I think some people need to remember that. A bit support really wouldn't go amiss.

Some of the threads on here concerning CH since the start of the season have been way over the top, with several posts therein completely uncalled for. Something that irritates me is the need for the same culprits (don't think I need to name names, do I?) to post their same negative points in every single thread about him without fail. Why, when you have already expressed your opinions so vehemently in the past, do you feel you have to keep reiterating them to the point of it becoming tiring?

A post that alarmed me involved one of this group of posters stating that he was "trying his hardest to remain impartial" over Hogg's performances. Sorry if I'm missing something here, but why on earth should a Hibs supporter ever have to make an effort to comment impartially on one of our players? I know people have their strong opinions, and I fully respect that, but surely it's not difficult to retain a sense of perspective where a member of our team is involved? Surely most folk should be able to go to games with an open mind, rather than having clear bias and preconceived ideas about how certain players of the team as a whole will perform, and there after refusing to give credit where it's due for whatever reason. From what I can see, there's too many around who are willing to put players down all too easily, appoint scapegoats and jump on bandwagons. I don't think it's helpful by any means. Is it just me :dunno:

Anyway, back to topic. Chris is a very able central defender, is committed to continually working to improve, and is and has always been a very worthy captain of our good club. Let's give him a bit of deserved backing now shall we.

A captain should instil confidence in his team mates and fans. Mabey its just me but Chris Hogg does not make me feel comfortable of confident. IMO witch doesn't count for much as a football fan is the main reason he is in the fist XI is down to the fact we don't really have anyone else better unless we sign a right and a left full back and murray can go into the Centre half role.

Mikeystewart
29-10-2009, 08:54 AM
The thing is at the time who else could he give it to? He could not give it to Murray as he as had his chance and the rest who could get it are all new singings. I think McBride would make a good captain but could not of known that at the beginning of the season.


Do you mean he was given his chance recently or he signed for the rangers and he shouldn't be given the armband again. If thats the case why are we even playing him. Now on his second term Stewart is hearts captain and played for us and last time i checked we weren't exactly pally, doesn't seem to bother them and it wouldn't bother me, murray was my first choice when Jones left.

Judas Iscariot
29-10-2009, 09:17 AM
I voted yes, my captain would be the driving force in the team, the player the others look up to when things are not going our way. If they look at hogg, all they see is an error strewn display, from a player who gives zero inspiration. Never a captain in a million years.

:agree: :top marks

Better watch what I'm saying..

People in glass houses and all that :cool2:

Green Mikey
29-10-2009, 12:44 PM
I voted yes, my captain would be the driving force in the team, the player the others look up to when things are not going our way. If they look at hogg, all they see is an error strewn display, from a player who gives zero inspiration. Never a captain in a million years.

Hogg may not be a leader on the park but he might be a good captain behind the scenes. You have no idea how the other players view him. If Hogg is well liked by the other players and the manager trusts him then he is probaly more of a club captain and he could be a very good one. There is no way for you to judge him on these aspects of the role. There may be better leaders on the park for Hibs but they may not have the subtler skills required to be captain.

The role of captain doesn't mean that the player has to charge around with with a bandaged head screaming at everyone and score the winner in a Roy of the Rovers fashion. This is your definition of the role and this is probaly different to Yogi's. .

blackpoolhibs
29-10-2009, 01:10 PM
Hogg may not be a leader on the park but he might be a good captain behind the scenes. You have no idea how the other players view him. If Hogg is well liked by the other players and the manager trusts him then he is probaly more of a club captain and he could be a very good one. There is no way for you to judge him on these aspects of the role. There may be better leaders on the park for Hibs but they may not have the subtler skills required to be captain.

The role of captain doesn't mean that the player has to charge around with with a bandaged head screaming at everyone and score the winner in a Roy of the Rovers fashion. This is your definition of the role and this is probaly different to Yogi's. .

You are right, a captain does not need to be covered in blood, shaking his fist at everyone. Although a captain in my eyes needs to be a player who others can look to for inspiration, a player who leads by example. Can you honestly say you or the players see this in hogg? I have played football, obviously not at this level, but from my experience, players DO look for leadership in their captain, fair do's if he's good with book signings and drawing raffles at summer fairs, but he's never a captain of a football club in a million years, certainly not at SPL level.

Green Mikey
29-10-2009, 01:23 PM
You are right, a captain does not need to be covered in blood, shaking his fist at everyone. Although a captain in my eyes needs to be a player who others can look to for inspiration, a player who leads by example. Can you honestly say you or the players see this in hogg? I have played football, obviously not at this level, but from my experience, players DO look for leadership in their captain, fair do's if he's good with book signings and drawing raffles at summer fairs, but he's never a captain of a football club in a million years, certainly not at SPL level.

I don't know Hogg or any of the players personally so I can't say what type of person he is. IMO leadership and inspiration can come in many forms not just have the highest level of ability. Being a physical fitness, professionalism, approachability, trust, honesty are qualities that make a good leader and, it is impossible to know if Hogg has these.

Your view of Hogg's footballing skill seems to let you draw the conclusion that he is not a good captain. IMO alot of a Captain's role is not on the park and that it impossible to judge his ability to be captain solely on football ability.

blackpoolhibs
29-10-2009, 01:41 PM
I don't know Hogg or any of the players personally so I can't say what type of person he is. IMO leadership and inspiration can come in many forms not just have the highest level of ability. Being a physical fitness, professionalism, approachability, trust, honesty are qualities that make a good leader and, it is impossible to know if Hogg has these.

Your view of Hogg's footballing skill seems to let you draw the conclusion that he is not a good captain. IMO alot of a Captain's role is not on the park and that it impossible to judge his ability to be captain solely on football ability.

Me neither, thats why i use my eyes, and see whats happening before them, to make my judgement.

Cocaine&Caviar
29-10-2009, 01:52 PM
The thing is at the time who else could he give it to? He could not give it to Murray as he as had his chance and the rest who could get it are all new singings. I think McBride would make a good captain but could not of known that at the beginning of the season.

Why? Hughes was with him at Falkirk, and would surely know of his leadership and captain potential...

Sick Boy
29-10-2009, 01:54 PM
For those who have voted 'yes' in the poll, what exactly has he done wrong so far as captain?

Yes, I can agree that some of his performances this season haven't been to his usual standard - and I think he knows that - however his overall abilities as a football player have nothing whatsoever to do with why he was appointed the captain of the football club.

That was more down to his leadership skills; his consummate professionalism; the way he conducts himself as an individual and as a football player; his nature around teammates (especially younger squad members), club staff and supporters; his ability to represent the club and portray Hibernian FC in a positive manner. Need I go on.

I remember listening to an interview with Mowbray a couple of months ago regarding Stephen McManus at Celtic, and he made the comment that while McManus is the rightful captain of the club, that doesn't necessarily mean he will always be included in and thus skipper the side on a matchday. I think that's a fair point. If the captain is not performing as required over a period of several games, then as with any player, their place in the side should be questioned. If it is to the ultimate benefit of the team, then yes, the player should probably be dropped. That does not make that player a poor captain, nor should there be any speculation as to whether he should be stripped of the armband purely off the back of a few under-par performances - especially when that player has more than proven himself at this level, and has arguably been the club's POTY in previous seasons. That's just pure nonsense.

Hughes has made the high regard in which he holds his captain more than clear, and he's evidently an intelligent, honest and realistic manager, so although I obviously can't speak for him, I think it would be fair to say he won't be having many (if indeed any) doubts as to whether his decision was the correct one.

Ian Murray seemed to be the popular choice amongst the fans, yet in both games against St Johnstone (especially in the cup game) did very little in the way of encouraging and directing his teammates. Don't get me wrong I think Murray is a cracking player, but he's no better a leader and no more worthy of the captaincy than Chris Hogg.

Performance-wise, Hoggy will undoubtedly improve. He was excellent against Motherwell and Dundee United, and a candidate for MOTM after his first half against Kilmarnock (during which time he was as vocal as he's ever been) although tailed off during the 2nd half a bit (not "mince" by any stretch). He doesn't need fans making him a scapegoat, nor does any player, and doesn't deserve half the abuse he's received both on here and from the stands. He has not become a 'poor' player overnight, and I think some people need to remember that. A bit support really wouldn't go amiss.

Some of the threads on here concerning CH since the start of the season have been way over the top, with several posts therein completely uncalled for. Something that irritates me is the need for the same culprits (don't think I need to name names, do I?) to post their same negative points in every single thread about him without fail. Why, when you have already expressed your opinions so vehemently in the past, do you feel you have to keep reiterating them to the point of it becoming tiring?

A post that alarmed me involved one of this group of posters stating that he was "trying his hardest to remain impartial" over Hogg's performances. Sorry if I'm missing something here, but why on earth should a Hibs supporter ever have to make an effort to comment impartially on one of our players? I know people have their strong opinions, and I fully respect that, but surely it's not difficult to retain a sense of perspective where a member of our team is involved? Surely most folk should be able to go to games with an open mind, rather than having clear bias and preconceived ideas about how certain players of the team as a whole will perform, and there after refusing to give credit where it's due for whatever reason. From what I can see, there's too many around who are willing to put players down all too easily, appoint scapegoats and jump on bandwagons. I don't think it's helpful by any means. Is it just me :dunno:

Anyway, back to topic. Chris is a very able central defender, is committed to continually working to improve, and is and has always been a very worthy captain of our good club. Let's give him a bit of deserved backing now shall we.

Hear hear.

:top marks

Green Mikey
29-10-2009, 01:54 PM
Me neither, thats why i use my eyes, and see whats happening before them, to make my judgement.

But you don't have an all-seeing eye therefore you are only judging the situation on incomplete information.

blackpoolhibs
29-10-2009, 02:36 PM
But you don't have an all-seeing eye therefore you are only judging the situation on incomplete information.

Like you too Mikey.:wink:

basehibby
29-10-2009, 04:00 PM
Hogg hasn't had a great start to the season but I don't think Yogi will be regretting awarding him the captaincy - like others have said there are many attributes to leadership and I'm sure some of them he'll be looking for is attitude OFF the park and in training. From what I can gather Hogg's reaction to being dropped earlier in the season was not to go in the huff but to apply himself diligently and work his way back - he did so successfully which is an example in itself and IMO the defence HAS looked more solid since his return - not to mention that he's since presided over a nice wee run of form - down to the whole team I know, but still less excuse to give him pelters.
Hogg has some weaknesses in his game which he needs to keep working on but right now he is still one of our strongest back four and I have no problem with him being the captain.

bigl
29-10-2009, 04:45 PM
For those who have voted 'yes' in the poll, what exactly has he done wrong so far as captain?

Yes, I can agree that some of his performances this season haven't been to his usual standard - and I think he knows that - however his overall abilities as a football player have nothing whatsoever to do with why he was appointed the captain of the football club.

That was more down to his leadership skills; his consummate professionalism; the way he conducts himself as an individual and as a football player; his nature around teammates (especially younger squad members), club staff and supporters; his ability to represent the club and portray Hibernian FC in a positive manner. Need I go on.

I remember listening to an interview with Mowbray a couple of months ago regarding Stephen McManus at Celtic, and he made the comment that while McManus is the rightful captain of the club, that doesn't necessarily mean he will always be included in and thus skipper the side on a matchday. I think that's a fair point. If the captain is not performing as required over a period of several games, then as with any player, their place in the side should be questioned. If it is to the ultimate benefit of the team, then yes, the player should probably be dropped. That does not make that player a poor captain, nor should there be any speculation as to whether he should be stripped of the armband purely off the back of a few under-par performances - especially when that player has more than proven himself at this level, and has arguably been the club's POTY in previous seasons. That's just pure nonsense.

Hughes has made the high regard in which he holds his captain more than clear, and he's evidently an intelligent, honest and realistic manager, so although I obviously can't speak for him, I think it would be fair to say he won't be having many (if indeed any) doubts as to whether his decision was the correct one.

Ian Murray seemed to be the popular choice amongst the fans, yet in both games against St Johnstone (especially in the cup game) did very little in the way of encouraging and directing his teammates. Don't get me wrong I think Murray is a cracking player, but he's no better a leader and no more worthy of the captaincy than Chris Hogg.

Performance-wise, Hoggy will undoubtedly improve. He was excellent against Motherwell and Dundee United, and a candidate for MOTM after his first half against Kilmarnock (during which time he was as vocal as he's ever been) although tailed off during the 2nd half a bit (not "mince" by any stretch). He doesn't need fans making him a scapegoat, nor does any player, and doesn't deserve half the abuse he's received both on here and from the stands. He has not become a 'poor' player overnight, and I think some people need to remember that. A bit support really wouldn't go amiss.

Some of the threads on here concerning CH since the start of the season have been way over the top, with several posts therein completely uncalled for. Something that irritates me is the need for the same culprits (don't think I need to name names, do I?) to post their same negative points in every single thread about him without fail. Why, when you have already expressed your opinions so vehemently in the past, do you feel you have to keep reiterating them to the point of it becoming tiring?

A post that alarmed me involved one of this group of posters stating that he was "trying his hardest to remain impartial" over Hogg's performances. Sorry if I'm missing something here, but why on earth should a Hibs supporter ever have to make an effort to comment impartially on one of our players? I know people have their strong opinions, and I fully respect that, but surely it's not difficult to retain a sense of perspective where a member of our team is involved? Surely most folk should be able to go to games with an open mind, rather than having clear bias and preconceived ideas about how certain players of the team as a whole will perform, and there after refusing to give credit where it's due for whatever reason. From what I can see, there's too many around who are willing to put players down all too easily, appoint scapegoats and jump on bandwagons. I don't think it's helpful by any means. Is it just me :dunno:

Anyway, back to topic. Chris is a very able central defender, is committed to continually working to improve, and is and has always been a very worthy captain of our good club. Let's give him a bit of deserved backing now shall we.
Different class I couldn't agree more

Green Mikey
29-10-2009, 05:02 PM
Like you too Mikey.:wink:

Very good, but I wasn't saying that Hogg is a good or bad captain.

I was commenting that there is more to a captain's role and success than the fan's assessment of his performance on the pitch.

blackpoolhibs
29-10-2009, 05:18 PM
Very good, but I wasn't saying that Hogg is a good or bad captain.

I was commenting that there is more to a captain's role and success than the fan's assessment of his performance on the pitch.

So you are non commital, thats fair enough, sit on the fence if you want.

Green Mikey
29-10-2009, 05:28 PM
So you are non commital, thats fair enough, sit on the fence if you want.

Sitting on the fence would infer that I am choosing not to make decision when I have the ability to do so however this doesn't relate to my current position. I can't not won't make a decision because any comment would be based on poor and incomplete knowledge of the real situation and wouldn't be of any particular worth.

blackpoolhibs
29-10-2009, 05:30 PM
Sitting on the fence would infer that I am choosing not to make decision when I have the ability to do so however this doesn't relate to my current position. I can't not won't make a decision because any comment would be based on poor and incomplete knowledge of the real situation and wouldn't be of any particular worth.

We wont agree on this one.:wink:

andyhibs
29-10-2009, 05:36 PM
many thoughts on why ch should or should not be captain, and the only person that can say what he wants in a captain is jh. on saying that if i recall correctly when jones was going through his bad spell, many on here were wanting ch to be captain, so as i see it hoggy is going through a bit of a bad spell , but like jones i am sure he will come out of it:greengrin

Green Mikey
29-10-2009, 05:36 PM
We wont agree on this one.:wink:

Agreed:wink:

ForeverHibs93
29-10-2009, 05:38 PM
For those who have voted 'yes' in the poll, what exactly has he done wrong so far as captain?

Yes, I can agree that some of his performances this season haven't been to his usual standard - and I think he knows that - however his overall abilities as a football player have nothing whatsoever to do with why he was appointed the captain of the football club.

That was more down to his leadership skills; his consummate professionalism; the way he conducts himself as an individual and as a football player; his nature around teammates (especially younger squad members), club staff and supporters; his ability to represent the club and portray Hibernian FC in a positive manner. Need I go on.

I remember listening to an interview with Mowbray a couple of months ago regarding Stephen McManus at Celtic, and he made the comment that while McManus is the rightful captain of the club, that doesn't necessarily mean he will always be included in and thus skipper the side on a matchday. I think that's a fair point. If the captain is not performing as required over a period of several games, then as with any player, their place in the side should be questioned. If it is to the ultimate benefit of the team, then yes, the player should probably be dropped. That does not make that player a poor captain, nor should there be any speculation as to whether he should be stripped of the armband purely off the back of a few under-par performances - especially when that player has more than proven himself at this level, and has arguably been the club's POTY in previous seasons. That's just pure nonsense.

Hughes has made the high regard in which he holds his captain more than clear, and he's evidently an intelligent, honest and realistic manager, so although I obviously can't speak for him, I think it would be fair to say he won't be having many (if indeed any) doubts as to whether his decision was the correct one.

Ian Murray seemed to be the popular choice amongst the fans, yet in both games against St Johnstone (especially in the cup game) did very little in the way of encouraging and directing his teammates. Don't get me wrong I think Murray is a cracking player, but he's no better a leader and no more worthy of the captaincy than Chris Hogg.

Performance-wise, Hoggy will undoubtedly improve. He was excellent against Motherwell and Dundee United, and a candidate for MOTM after his first half against Kilmarnock (during which time he was as vocal as he's ever been) although tailed off during the 2nd half a bit (not "mince" by any stretch). He doesn't need fans making him a scapegoat, nor does any player, and doesn't deserve half the abuse he's received both on here and from the stands. He has not become a 'poor' player overnight, and I think some people need to remember that. A bit support really wouldn't go amiss.

Some of the threads on here concerning CH since the start of the season have been way over the top, with several posts therein completely uncalled for. Something that irritates me is the need for the same culprits (don't think I need to name names, do I?) to post their same negative points in every single thread about him without fail. Why, when you have already expressed your opinions so vehemently in the past, do you feel you have to keep reiterating them to the point of it becoming tiring?

A post that alarmed me involved one of this group of posters stating that he was "trying his hardest to remain impartial" over Hogg's performances. Sorry if I'm missing something here, but why on earth should a Hibs supporter ever have to make an effort to comment impartially on one of our players? I know people have their strong opinions, and I fully respect that, but surely it's not difficult to retain a sense of perspective where a member of our team is involved? Surely most folk should be able to go to games with an open mind, rather than having clear bias and preconceived ideas about how certain players of the team as a whole will perform, and there after refusing to give credit where it's due for whatever reason. From what I can see, there's too many around who are willing to put players down all too easily, appoint scapegoats and jump on bandwagons. I don't think it's helpful by any means. Is it just me :dunno:

Anyway, back to topic. Chris is a very able central defender, is committed to continually working to improve, and is and has always been a very worthy captain of our good club. Let's give him a bit of deserved backing now shall we.


Couldn't agree more, there's a lot more to a captain than just current performance:agree:.

rightwinger
29-10-2009, 08:52 PM
I'm for putting him to right back.

I don't think he's a bad player, but he's not a very good one either. He's not very commanding or inspirational. He's not too slow, too small, too clumsy etc but he's not that strong in those areas either. A bit of a jack of all trades defender really. Not captaincy material though - as someone indicated, if Murray hadn't gone and come back he would have been the better candidate.

Stick him out at right back where his lack of presence won't be so easily exposed. Any fumbles he makes won't be so noticeable either. Bring Murray inside to play with Bamba. Hanlon, Stevenson, or even Rankin could then play LB. Stevenson and Rankin are a bit quicker and use the ball better but height can be essential at full back as Lafferty showed Wotherspoon on Saturday. Probably Hanlon then.